Dog Brothers Public Forum
DBMA Martial Arts Forum => Martial Arts Topics => Topic started by: Howling Dog on May 29, 2004, 05:58:25 AM
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woof all, iam intrested to hear from all and esp those with knowledge concerning the purchase of a quality blade with price and quality proportinate to each other with quality as a priority.
I have been looking at blades with some intrest on cold steel.com anyone else care to share...please do!! esp you guro crafty!
sb
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woof, hey guys iam not looking for an endorsment or really a recomendation. just a little chatter on where to get a good quality knife.something to look at esp. on the net where you cant inspect the knife first hand before purchasing.
i know theres lots of quality blades on the market, then on the other hand theres lots of junk blades out there too. some hold edges better than others. some are better crafted than others handles, riveting and the likes. cmon guys.........help a guy not pay too much or buy a piece of junk.
sb
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Benchmade
http://www.benchmade.com
Spyderco
http://www.spyderco.com
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Woof Tom:
Perhaps people are reluctant to commit to writing what they own? Anyway, I was sitting back in case my posting might cause others to self-stifle, but such appears not to be the case :wink: so herewith some thoughts:
You don't specify, but I'm guessing that your interest is of personal protection. With that assumption in place , , ,
Knife selection is quite personal. What feels right to me may not feel right to you and vice versa.
That said, I would offer that many people tend to look at the blade instead of feeling the handle. Would you want to slash at something hard with it- or would you be concerned that you might knock of your hand upon contact? Would you be willing to thrust hard with it with the risk of hitting something hard- or would you be concerned that your hand would slide up the blade?
MAny people place great importance on the edge holding quality of the steel. Personally I don't care too much, but that's just me. Unlike a work knife, a personal protection knife needs hold its edge for only one use at a time so I see no point :roll: in spending a lot of money for super grade steels.
Many people like folders. Others do not. Will you be able to open you folder under the intense adrenal conditions of self-defense with a knife?
Big question: How will you carry and draw it? Will this carry work with all clothes? If not, then what?
Yoy may wish to consider what is legal where you live.
As Kyle notes, Benchmade and Syderco are well-regarded companies. I used to carry a Syderco Police model when it first came out in the mid-80s when its design was cutting :roll: edge, but came to doubt MY ability to pinch-grab the hole and draw under adrenal conditions-- but that's just me. I would also draw your attention to Emerson. I recently handled a CRKT that impressed me greatly in terms of my criteria (see above)-- and its price was quite reasonable. You mention Cold Steel-- I have heard some people say that Cold Steel knives are not what they used to be. I only can say that the last one that I handled (this would go back a few years) was a Tanto folder and the opening action seemed to me to be extremely stiff. They do have a good rep for sharp edges.
Hope this helps and hope others chime in.
Woof,
Crafty Dog
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Woof all, i have for the past couple of days enjoyed looking at the different knives and manufacturers. I appreciate the links and such.
I have noticed what seems to be a common link between makers and that is the small folder with a average 3inch blade even smaller. Iam geussing thats the in vogue style of the times?
I dont really care to carry anything big and weighty in my pockets just seems to bother me and make me uncomfortable, though my first thought was a large folder say at least a 4inch blade.
Reason being it would be easier to reach out and touch some one with plus the extra weight would make it a better slicer/hacker.
I do at present time carry a small folder its just a cheap knife but razor sharp. schrade badger.
Guro crafty made some good points though that caused me to think about this knife. for one and in so stating iam again asking......the knife is terribly stiff in the opening action and under stress would take some time to open.
Is there a knife out there that has a good quick opening action in its reputation?
i watched a short vid clip of a guy taking a crkt krambit out of his pocket/ he had it open and in action right out of the pocket. very impressive.
Is that char. of the crkt knives?
In closing the short blades really give me a lot of intriguing thought, i can envision a lot of grabbing and cutting/ also seems a little dangerous esp. going knife on knife if that were to be the case. thoughts anyone?
please post....iam in search of the perfect personal blade......my baby 8)
sb
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Benchmade Mini-AFCK
Spyderco Paramilitary
Spyderco Delica
Benchmade McHenry-Williams(small size)
Spyderco Native III
Timberline Wortac(small size)
Emerson Mini-Commander
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If you want a folder, there is an Emerson, the model name of which slips my mind, that runs for about $220 (last time I looked anyway) that opens extremely well and has a handle and blade that meet my criteria. Saving my pennies.
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Woof,
I carry a Benchmade Mini-AFCK. Sometimes in my pocket, mostly in bag with a bunch of other stuff. I'm pretty sure the blade is slightly longer than the legal limit in CA.
I have no fantasies of ever fighting with it. I don't practice quick drawing it from my pocket or anything like that. If some serious shit is going down and I happen to be able to get to it, great, but I think my training time is better spent practicing other techniques.
I have one of those giant fixed blade SOG SEAL knives I keep at home.
-Dog Milt
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woof, your right milt neither do i lay in bed at night and dream of slashing away at a bad guy.
However.....heres a question that kinda goes with this thread, Would being attacked by a guy with a lead pipe justify the use of a knife for self defense?
Reason for the ques. is i know a guy who got his jaw split in half tuesday night by a pipe. darnedest thing he was hit somewhere in the side of the head/face area, but his jaw split in the cleft of his chin. they put a plate across the front of his jaw to hold it together. pretty seriously broken.
Never say never milt.
guro crafty, i was really impressed with the emerson knives they seem to be made of great quality i have to retract what i said about that krambit vid on the guy demo opening it. it was on the emerson site that i watched it.
I showed my wife a emerson i liked "the tactical persian folder" she understands my need for such things :wink: anyone care to critic that knife for me, please feel free. It is rather large but the handle looks like something you could hold onto. comments please!!
I notice that a lot of blades have a partial serrated edge, that kinda scares me in that it looks like a pain in the butt to sharpen. any comments on that?
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You might like this knife also...
http://www.newgraham.com/persian.htm
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Woof,
I carry a Benchmade Mini-AFCK. Sometimes in my pocket, mostly in bag with a bunch of other stuff. I'm pretty sure the blade is slightly longer than the legal limit in CA.
-Dog Milt
Isn't the legal blade size in California 5"? I think I remember reading that somewhere. Or is that Texas? The Mini-AFCK's blade is 3.25" long. In NY, we have to stay under 4".
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woof, your right milt neither do i lay in bed at night and dream of slashing away at a bad guy.
However.....heres a question that kinda goes with this thread, Would being attacked by a guy with a lead pipe justify the use of a knife for self defense?
Reason for the ques. is i know a guy who got his jaw split in half tuesday night by a pipe. darnedest thing he was hit somewhere in the side of the head/face area, but his jaw split in the cleft of his chin. they put a plate across the front of his jaw to hold it together. pretty seriously broken.
Never say never milt.
Woof,
Yeah, I suppose if some guy were threatening me with a lead pipe (watch out for Colonel Mustard!) I'd try to bust out my knife. Then again, if you get hit with that pipe first...
Here's a question, in a pipe vs 3 inch blade fight, which would you rather have? Let's assume that the pipe is EMT conduit and not lead so you can swing it faster.
Don't get me wrong, it's nice to have a knife handy if you need it. I'm just not one these paranoid guys that have three or four knives strapped to them every time they leave the house.
-Dog Milt
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I'd choose the pipe.
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Please describe EMT conduit.
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Please describe EMT conduit.
Sorry, EMT (Electrical Metallic Tubing) conduit is that hollow steel (I think) tubing you can buy at most hardware stores for running electrical wiring outside or underground. It's inexpensive.
I've got a couple of 1" (outer diameter) pieces cut to typical fighting stick length I use for weight training. I'd say the walls are about 3/8" thick. They weigh about three pounds each.
-Dog Milt
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I'd take the knife.
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Woof, milt and K both take the pipe and crafty chooses the knife. Milt even goes so far as to say if he were attacked by a pipe he would bust out his knife.
So iam assuming we think legaly that being attacked by a pipe is
grounds for defending ourselves with a knife. I agree both are deadly weapons.
Question to those who would choose the pipe over the knife, which one are you more likley to have in your possesion?
Question again, :wink: to what extent do we use either weapon esp. when placed in a high adrenal condition.
Ok one more ques.. If taking of a life is necassary/justified which way would we deem most humane? by stick or by knife? personally i think knife.
thanks K for the link i havent seen that website yet i will be looking at it more soon. that knife is very similar to the emerson at least by design, the blade being a little smaller.
which brings me to my final question of the day. I hear talk of legal blade limits/sizes.......is there a place to check that? Iam now in wonder as to
the legal blade size for ohio/never gave it much thought before :?
By the way....the fight that occured where the guy was hit with the pipe was a scheduled event. Well from what i was told a drug deal gone bad. So i assume all players could have brought their weapons of choice.
sb
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Well, I never said which one I'd take, I just asked the question.
Crafty, are there any circumstances under which you would take the pipe over the knife?
It seems to me that the heavier the pipe, the slower the swing/recovery and the eaiser it would be to wait for an opening and rush in with the knife. OTOH, as the pipe gets lighter, approaching stick weight, I'd be more likely to risk eating a shot to get inside.
-Dog Milt
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1'' is little to big for me (got two 3/4 pieces 27'' long). pipe (stick) vs. knife? guy with the pipe is a corpse.
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"Which one would I have in my possesion?" Most likely a pocket knife. Unless I happened to be doing some sort of plumbing job. :D Or if a situation was so bad that I'd carry an ASP baton.
I personally haven't held a length of pipe that was lighter than a rattan stickof the same length & diameter. They(iron, brass, & lead pipes) usually weigh as much as a kamagong stick or heavier. One solid hit to the head, knee, or weapon hand...or any combination of the above, should end a fight...hopefully.
As for legal size, you can check your state/city laws in the library, or go to http://www.akti.org , or post the question on Bladeforums.com.
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"Crafty, are there any circumstances under which you would take the pipe over the knife?"
The only that occur at the moment are:
1) If the knive in question was flawed: bad handle, an undependable lock (if a folder), dull blade, etc.
2) He was wearing really hard to get through clothing.
Woof,
Crafty
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The Spyderco Persian has a blade length of 3.5". That's an error on the NewGraham website.
http://www.spyderco.com/online_product_info.asp?sts=6%2F4%2F2004+12%3A13%3A19+AM&pfid=C83BMP&deptId=1020&mscssid=F4V1WLGBCP0L9PDP53SLMNEQFBQMEHL8
Serrations(and regular plain edges) are easy to sharpen if you have a Sharpmaker sharpener...
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Guro Crafty,
I've watched your videos. I think the average guy with a knife wouldn't have a chance against you if you had a length of pipe. :D Now if he's also trained in the FMA/IMA, then I could see where you'd probably want to have the knife, cause if you miss the first pipe strike, he's gonna close real fast with the knife.
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Woof All,
When I am at home I carry a gerber covert folder. when working I use either a cqd mark 1 folder or the mark 4 straight blade.
Check out cqd at www.mastersofdefense.com
Myke
ps thanks for the well wishes
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http://members.aol.com/ETFed/ESCRIMA-TOURNAMENT-FEDERATION/20e.htm
the same topic on www.vortal.budo.pl (in polish tough :) )
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IIRC, there are no length limitations on folders here in CA. The thing to keep in mind though is the intent of carry.
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BAU ! (that's Italian for WOOF!)...if needed for possible self-protection, what about a tiny TEKNA Microknife ?
All the best ! :D
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Woof Elio, a tiny tekna micro knife? who makes it? I will try to take a look on line. can you tell me more? thanks to all who have posted!! I ve looked at many awesome knives. Wish i could afford them all!! I find myself strangley attracted to them, swords as well. Hope to someday have a nice collection.....piece by piece.
sb
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Tom,
it's produced by TEKNA and has a flat-pen shape with a clip for concealed carry inside a jacket pocket; once you press the small button at the top, a spring will recall the plastic blade protection inside its body and will expose the double edged blade (very sharp !).
Let me know !
Ciao from Rome, Italy!
:D
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Tom,
more info...have a look at http://cutlerscove.com/daggers/tekna-pocket2.htm
Ciao!
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Woof all,I need a little help please.....well maybe more than a little, we wont get into that right now :shock: .
I have just spent some time searching the net to try and find out legal blade lengths for the state of ohio.
Not much luck, i even found something that said switch blades are legal in ohio. Iam not sure about that, just someones post somewhere, anyway can anyone point me in the right direction.
I would call the local police dept. but iam actually thinking depending on who i talk to i could get a variety of answers.
If anyone can help me find the facts, that would be awesome, i apreciate it thanks!! tom
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After much shopping around, I bought an all-metal Spyderco Harpie in 1998 or so. The blade length is 2 3/4" and it easily fits in the billfold of my wallet,
thus enabling me to carry it anywhere. I've practied taking out
the knife quickly and mostly have it down. This blade is not a "fighting"
knife, but its serrated edges look nasty. The natural steel color and
nasty-looking blade are excellent posturing attributes.
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a good rule of thumb that we go by is any thing under 4 inches is legal in most states. as long as it is not a switch blade.
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Great topic, I was surfing for something else and came across it. What are your thoughts on the Sere 2000?
(http://www.almarknives.com/images/SERE-2000.jpg)
http://www.almarknives.com/catalog.shtm
I have a friend that swears by the knife, it is smooth, affordable (check froogle for better pricing than the almar site), has a high clip so it sits low in the pocket, and looks decent. My only concern, non-serrated edge.
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Woof joe t, very nice!! thankks for the post! its a new one to me. IS that a partial double edge?
You mention a concern about a non serated edge, I made a inquery before about the difficulty in sharpening the serated edge, care to comment? tom
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The SERE is single edged; think the term for the beveled top is a "false edge." I own a first generation SERE that I've grown increasingly disenchanted with: some fit and finish issues out of the box, the action never really broke in, too big, and so on. I think Al Mar's quality control over the years has been kind of spotty. I remember a kukri style blade he came out with a dozen or so years back; a lot of people reported blade failures so you don't see 'em around any more.
Sharpening serrations now and again is not really a big deal: ceramic sticks do a good job. Sharpening 'em over time, however, becomes problematic because the more you sharpen the more you modify the lines of the serration. Once you start rounding off the peaks of the serration there isn't much to be done about it besides remachining. As such I don't carry utility knives that are serrated because general usage will cause the knife to be retired sooner that its plain edge counter part.
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Woof buzwardo, Intresting post, The Almars quality seems to fall in line with much of what we deal with in the world today. pay more for less. Iam not at all suprised by what you said, besides i wouldnt say that knife falls into the "cheap" section while not the most expensive ive seen certainly not the cheapest either.
Thanx for the lesson in the serrated edge, kinda what i thought. Iam not too intrested in the serrated edge anyway except maybe for a steak knife :D tom
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Thanks for the heads up buzwardo, I will reconsider the purchase.
My feeling on serrated edge - I am not too concerned with sharpening a tactical folder, because I would not be carrying it as a utility blade. It wouldnt become dull anytime soon on it's own. A knife with a serrated edge, can be carried for "utility" purposes and for emergency purposes (cutting seatbelts is a big "reason" why some people carry knives :wink: ). You never want a weapon that has no practical application other than self-defense.
Wish I could check this forum out more often, would love to see what people carry for tf's that fall within the legal limits here in NY (<4" blade, no gravity, no auto). Great site, I got lots to learn. :twisted:
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Tom, been looking into it a bit more. A good quality, less expensive knife is the Benchmade Griptilian. There are a few different variations to check out.
(http://store5.yimg.com/I/bestknives_1799_39744640)
Good luck to ya!
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Woof, I was at the local wal-mart today and was looking at a low budget Gerber folder. It had a thumb action opening on it that was really stiff, the lock seemed really solid. It was very sharp always a plus to me. :shock:
I didnt have any intention of buying the knife just checking it while i waited for my wife. :?
However it made me wonder is there a particular brand that have a really easy smooth opening action, that would lend itself nicley for something that might be needed in a high adrenal type situation?
Iam sure there are, the question I have is which ones are they? Lots of feed back on this would be greatly appreciated.( favorites ect.)
Iam also very aware that some of the folders are made pretty much with self defense in mind.
So iam thinking opening action would also be a design feature.
tom
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I have felt some Emerson's that opened very nicely and which had a handle that seemed well-designed to me.
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The Randall with 1/4 inch steel blade, 7 inches long - one full tang of steel, will in all probability cut the dang pipe. This knife is made to last and with the blade that long and dense it's like a mini-samurai sword. Due to the fact that it's one piece of steel, it rests in your palm like it's a natural extenstion of your arm.
I'd not take just any knife against a pipe but I wouldn't hesitate at all taking the Randall with Mycarda hand - One step further though, since Randall custom makes each knife - I'd have this pipe fighter's handle end honed out for skull cracking.
Only special forces can get the special numerically issued one but it'd be worth the $500.00 or so to get one near it with the dimensions I just mentioned if you had to take a knife against a pipe.
Sincerely,
One out there.
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I correct myself:
Less than $500 you can get this - but it won't have the skull cracking butt:
Randall knife-
G. Model #16-7? SP#1 ?Special #1 Fighter? ? 7? blade of ?? stainless steel stock. Top cutting edge sharpened approx. 3?. Brass double hilt. 4 ?? handle of durable Black Micarta. (Green micarta handle material available upon request.) Extra heavy 7/8? wide tang extends through channel in handle, which is firmly fastened with epoxy. Standard with finger grip handle. Single Finger Grip and Border Patrol handle shapes available. (Wt. 14 oz.)
Price: $300
The similiar special forces model is the Yarborough.
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Woof, I checked out Randall knives.com They sure had some beautiful knives on their web page, simply beautiful. however i found most to be a little large for everyday carrying. none the less very nice.
tom
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Woof guro crafty, i have a birthday comming up in a couple of months. maybe i can talk mamma into a Emmerson. can you be more specific as to the type of handle that you recommend. ie even a particular emmerson (name type)
By the way, It was a pleasure to watch you knife fight at the gathering!
tom
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http://www.blackhawkindustries.com/product_catalog.asp?cat_id=84&d=
Was thinking about getting the CQD Mark I, any opinions (good, bad?) or suggestions...
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I haven't had a chance to play with any of MODs offerings--I haven't seen one at any retail outlet. They certainly look interesting, though I confess some of their designs look pretty out there to me. If I have to choose between form and function, I'll take function every time. Several MOD designs look to me like they've run amok on form. Perhaps the design is functional, but I don't have a couple hundred bucks to find out if it truly works or if some designer was just getting his artistic ya yas handled.
Picked up a CRKT Ryan model 7 a month or so back and kind of hate to admit this inexpensive knife is really growing on me. I generally don't like drop point blades because the center of thrust feels too low to me. The Ryan has a forefinger cut out that lines the blade up properly in my hand. I also generally don't like clips on blade end of the handle--they always seem in the way and gum up fine manipulations. The same cut out and overall handle design somehow mitigates that concern also.
The edge is decent, the point servicable, the action fairly smooth. It has an interesting little slide on the back up near where the handle meets the back of the blade. Push the slide forward and the blade is locked open and the liner lock can not be disengaged from the blade.
Ryan 7s can be found on eBay for less than $30, and the small karambit like Ryan Plan B can be found for less still. As inexpensive carry options go, these two are near the top of the list IMHO.
(http://www.crkt.com/RYAN7GRP.JPG)
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Woof all, Tom I carry a Kershaw assisted opening folder. They are razor sharp out of the box and just a little bit of pressure on the stud and the blade flies out.
http://www.kershawknives.com
The only problem that I have found is the edge is kinda hard to keep but it does sharpen well.
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Hi Tom,
If it's a folding knife that you seek, then I would highly recommend anything with an Axis type of locking mechanism. Benchmade has some outstanding locking systems. The Benchmade AFCK w/ Axis lock is a perfect example. I'd rather not mention any names, but the majority of the folders out there are extremely unreliable. I've had some "Big Name" folders take a dump on me both in the middle of sparring sessions as well as through rigorous tests that I employ on every knife I get my hands on.
Now, without getting in great detail....if it's a fixed blade knife that you prefer, I would highly recommend anything from a custom blade maker by the name of Al Polkowski. Although pricey, his fixed blade tactical knives are incredible. In a nutshell, his sheaths are made for concealment (IWB - In The Waistband) which simply means that you are able to slide the blade and sheath on the inside of your waistband. The great thing about this is that none of his blades have ever printed on me. If you have the option, ask that your sheath be configured with a "J" hook, which is much better for then the standard rig. The "J" hook enables one to slide it into your waistband and hooking onto your belt. The way that it's set up also enables you to quickly draw your blade without having to worry about the whole rig coming with it upon deployment (knife still in sheath = not good).
Anyway, I hope this helps out a bit and good luck with your search.
Train as if your life depends on it because it does!!
-Johnny Arias
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Woof all, I thank you all for your recent posts, I really enjoy reading and hearing from others about the blades that they like,carry, dislike and all that goes with it.
I have been looking at blades online for sometime and realize esp. now that there are about a bazilion to chose from......It is nice again to hear from everyone gives an education and helps to prevent one from buying a dud!! It is my hope that this thread continues and the education process grows.
Two weeks ago I went to the local gun shop because they have a nice selection of knives there and wanted to look at some first hand.
I think i cut my finger on the kershaw that nazmi talked about. it was lightning fast and sharp. I cut my finger when the blade flew open and the tip caught the edge of my third finger(closest to my little finger) nothing serious just a nick.
I did buy a spyderco that day its a centofanteIII. It is a ok knife nothing to write home to mom about.
There are however some issues that i have been dealing with concerning a folding knife and thus my quest for a personal knife that i can carry and count on in a time of crisis continues.
For example.....the kershaw, I cut "myself" opening that knife even though it was fast......what happens if i have to open it for real, real fast? and so goes the issue of the folder can i get it out and open in time, or will it be laying on the ground still closed as a high adrenal state unfolds?
Last weekend i saw a nice neck knife of good quality which was not onley fast out of the sheath but very sharp and had a great griping design.
To make mention of the knife it was a emerson la griffe.
Sooo.......having said all of that my focus of now has kinda turned to something more of a fixed blade design thats conceals nicley is light enough to carry without being constantly aware of, and functional to use.
Thanks johnny for your post, is there some place i can look at Al Polkowski knives, i tried a name search but was onley able to come up with a few sporatic pics. here and there......evidently his knives are in high demand as lots of places were out of his knives. i would like to look at his knives closer and the sheath you described.
As i close this rather long post i would again like to thank all who have shared, and hope that it continues, its great checking out all the blades and learning in the meantime!
Tom
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Hi Tom,
Al Polkowski?s knives are indeed a bit difficult to come by, but well worth the search, cost and wait once you have one in your possession. From what I have learned, he is very particular as to whom he does business with.
One thing to keep in mind is that he has many different styles, so you?ll want to check them all out. In my opinion there is absolutely no custom knife maker that is as good at constructing fully concealable fighting knives.
Since this type of carry system has gained your interest, I would really like you to be aware of your local laws pertaining to blades and concealed carry rigs. I know that carrying this type of rig in California is illegal. I have my own opinions on the matter, so it?s definitely up to you to decide. I just want to bring it to your attention so, check out your local laws. A little homework prior to your purchase would only be beneficial.
Tom, if you?d like me to address specific questions regarding blade styles that I recommend, feel free to email me directly at: southpawjohnny@hotmail.com as to avoid lengthy posts that the others may not care to read. I can also turn you onto a few vendors that have a good relationship with him.
Again, good luck in your search.
Train as if your life depends on it because it does!
-Johnny Arias
www.lamecoeskrima.org
[/u]
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Concern about opening folders quickly and consistently can be addressed the old fashioned way: lotsa practice. Standing around flicking your knife open can get kinda boring; instead I suggest incorporating use of your knife into every daily task you can. Open your mail with it, cut your steak, prune the shrubs, stir your coffee, open boxes, and so on. It won't happen overnight, but eventually you'll find your knife leaps into your hand before you knew you needed it.
As for fixed blade suggestions, sheesh, where to start? A couple notions you are unlikely to hear anywhere else: First, at least initially, don't buy anything you can't toss down a storm drain without losing sleep. Concealed fixed blades are going to be frowned on in most jurisdictions; buy something you won't think twice about tossing in the bushes if you have to. Second, make sure whatever you buy can be drawn and resheathed quietly. If you have reason to draw a knife in combat then you also have reason to do so without telegraphing your intentions.
Beyond that my advice would be to figure out what blade style you favor and then pick up something relatively cheap in that style. Cold Steel has a lot of options in the $50 range. CRKT, Becker, Kershaw, Gerber, also have knives worth looking at. Once you've settled on a blade style that works for you, and if your pockets are plenty deep, there are a lot of folks other there making many amazing knives. Some of my favorites are Strider, Simonovich, Hossom, Terzoula, among others. There is no shortage of options, in other words. The hard part is narrowing things down.