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1  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: President Trump on: February 16, 2018, 09:41:05 PM
Bonus points-- Who said that and about whom?

FDR about Patton.  (?)

Yes, bullying the lady for his parking lot using eminent domain was disgusting, but what I hated him for in the primaries was that he supported that Supreme Court ruling, Kelo.

That he supports ends justify means may be why he was able to play ball against the Democrats.
2  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: When the excrement hits the fan, mass killings, etc on: February 16, 2018, 05:33:54 PM
"If someone is a danger to self or others, there is usually a legal process in every state allowing for involuntary commitment for a  short term psych eval.

If there is a legit basis for commitment beyond that point, after due process, any such person is restricted by federal law from firearm possession. 18 USC 922 (g)"

From my observation, the process or criteria needs to be tougher, much tougher. I'm not saying I know how or that it would be easy.

I delivered a person to the emergency room of known and admitted risk who threatened to kill herself and daughter.  They applied their criteria, prescribed a narcotic and released her.  She killed someone else the next day. We saw the same doctor next day after the unnecessary fatality. She was convicted of negligent vehicular homicide, child endangerment.  Served almost no time, was in the psych and parole system.  Munchausen by proxy syndrome (harm your child) among problems noted.  Replay, nearly identical experience 4 years later, drove a Crown Vic into opposing traffic with daughter again in car.  No consequence.  If there is a process, it isn't being followed.  We prescribe and release.  Then are shocked when stuff like this happens.
3  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: President Trump on: February 16, 2018, 04:23:48 PM
"Really decent people avoid political office. We have to decide among those who run. I didn't like Trump at all. He has turned out to be far better than I thought possible."

I agree, all true, same for me.  He is performing his duties as President in excellent fashion so far.  He is not a person you can point your children to and say I would like you to grow up and aspire to be like him.  If you are Melania's father and had all the information, you would tell her he is scum.  We are supporting a President that we wouldn't want as a spouse, friend or relative.  It sucks to have to settle and not just for moral reasons of principle but as a practical, political matter as well.  His defects lose him votes and gain him nothing.

Democrats have more skill and experience at looking the other way and more help at covering it up.
4  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / mass killings, etc. mental illness? on: February 16, 2018, 04:11:16 PM
Leftists are saying Trump blamed this on mental illness and maybe that is right.

I have a close relative with schizophrenia who wouldn't hurt anyone but perhaps shouldn't own guns and a close friend dealing with horrible bouts of panic and anxiety attacks apparently caused by prescriptions with lousy followup from psych-medical industry.  What to do with his guns, I don't know.  He would not harm others, but others who are going through mental disturbance might.  I wonder what we really have learned about the people who commit these crimes.  In addition to the obvious need to track radical Islamic terrorists better, maybe we need to put some kind of attention on people who have destructive urges for other reasons. 

Shooter of current news reportedly had psych prescriptions 12 months ago without medical followup.  I don't want to follow the ever-changing details of these events, but the larger principles are important.  Can we restrict rights without a conviction?  Without due process?  Can we give people of known risk due process and make reasonable restrictions?

Innocent until proven guilty - after the crime is completed - is not the way to stop mass killings.  You don't get to threaten the President; we have special laws for that.  How about the safety of the rest of us?
5  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: President Trump, New Yorker, Karen McDougal (alleged) affair on: February 16, 2018, 03:50:45 PM
quote author=G M
I'm sure this will shake everyone who saw Trump as a paragon of personal morality.
I know, nothing new, but one more time we get one more reason that some people around us, wife, girlfriend, daughter, person of principle, cannot be told in a close election where we need every vote that this man or person should be their choice for President.

I succeeded in persuaded my liberal leaning girlfriend last time, who could not stand Trump and demanded a president be virtuous, to vote for neither.  My daughter who I'm sure did not vote for Trump has not said and I have not asked how she voted.

I sadly wish we had a candidate that I could say without apologies is the best person for the job.  Maybe Mike Pence someday but he would not have won if he had run with all the others in 2016.

6  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: January PPI on: February 16, 2018, 02:26:34 PM
[Wesbury] Energy prices rose 3.4% in January, while food prices declined 0.2%. Producer prices excluding food and energy increased 0.4%.

These sound like ordinary fluctuations to me.  Minimum wage increases however that went into effect Jan 1 in several states, more money for the same work value, are inflationary, IMHO.

Our acceptance, goal, of 2% inflation, and willingness to drive it up further and faster than that is more damaging than we know.
7  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: President Trump proposes cutting these programs on: February 16, 2018, 02:19:34 PM

Wouldn't it be great if this came true!

It's possible that our friend Dr. Ben Carson is having some quiet success behind the scenes decoupling government and poverty.
8  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Tax Revenues under President Trump on: February 16, 2018, 02:17:08 PM

Crafty already had this story while I was out.  I don't want to celebrate to early and eat crow but I am already on record predicting good growth out of tax rate cuts and that growth deniers will be proven wrong.

Feds Just Made History In Tax Collection. Here Are The Numbers.
9  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / President Trump, New Yorker, Karen McDougal (alleged) affair on: February 16, 2018, 02:13:30 PM
Seems like a well researched story.  He was married 2 years to Melania, Barron was one, it sets up a pattern of how people were paid for silence.  Consensual but opens the door for others who did not appreciate similar advances.  I have no idea if any of it is true.  All long before he was President.  He has never claimed a lifetime of marital fidelity.  Could be damaging or is it all defects we already knew about him.  Certainly a distraction and likely stuff that Melania didn't fully know.
Linked at Crafty's story posted while typing...
10  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Ace on the Famous But Incompetent, Vox on media role on: February 16, 2018, 01:48:16 PM

Someone Close to Nikolas Cruz Called the FBI On January 5th To Warn Them About Cruz's Gun Ownership, His Threats to Kill People, and His Disturbing Social Media Posts, but the FBI Failed to Investigate

"If you see something, say something" is pointless if the authorities don't actually do something.

In a world of divided media I wonder if we have finally gotten past the knee jerk reaction to mass shootings that we should therefore disarm innocent people.
I had a hard time finding the link to this through all their leftism, but I agree with this 2015 VOX story:
Mass shooters want fame. Here's why we should stop giving it to them.

These school shootings are copycats of Columbine.  It's hard to say how we should stop glamorizing them, but the point is valid.  Publish the shooter's name once, then just refer to him as , shooter, killer, asshole, deranged individual, etc.  The victims, not the perp, deserve our attention.
A question for death penalty opponents, this individual deserves his own life preserved, why?
As Danny Pearl's widow characterized his beheader to Jim Lehrer with understatement, "a nuisance for humanity".
11  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Political Economics on: February 16, 2018, 01:27:16 PM
Further on Furman, Krugman, Obama, et al:

Doesn't it seem that it's always the people who tie us up in asphyxiating over-taxation and strangling over-regulation that keep telling us our prosperity is limited by resources and demographics.
12  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Russian conspiracy, Mueller indicts Russians! on: February 16, 2018, 01:15:35 PM
This is a positive development!  If he's going to hire expensive staff and keep the commission open, he needs to prosecute some criminals.  So much of cyber crime is across borders and ignored by our federal law enforcement agencies.  Good to see some attempt no matter who that implicates here.  No allegation of any American involved.  No indication it affected the outcome.
Special counsel Robert Mueller said a grand jury had indicted 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities for alleged interference in the 2016 presidential election.
The defendants allegedly conducted "information warfare" against the United States election process to help Donald Trump win.
The defendants used fake American personas, social media platforms, and other Internet media to advance their scheme, according to an indictment.
13  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Harvard Economist & Obama Chairman of Council of Economic Advisors on: February 16, 2018, 11:14:37 AM
I saw that headline and glad Crafty posted the details.  A thought leader of the Left, this sums up the heart of the left economics view. It reminds me of Nobel prize winner Krugman saying the market will never recover from the Presidential election, right before it ran up like never before.  My belief is that the headline, "Hoping for [economic growth of] 3% or more is Folly", will come back to haunt them.  We will see!

They brought us the lowest male workforce participation rate in history and much of the country barely knows anyone who works full time in the private sector, yet Furman believes the economy is already running at full employment. (As ccp points out, a slight SS age change alone would affect that.)  Furman is admitting that if we had given the Obama-Left and their policies more time, the results would have gotten worse and worse.  While the old management goes back to teaching, believing there is no more upside potential, the US economy has re-opened under new management.

He makes valid points about headwinds and how hard it is to increase growth - without real changes in policies.  When his side governed, they implemented anti-growth policies, raised tax rates, increased government dependency by intention, reduced workforce participation, and put regulation ahead of enterprise.  They at least proved the other side of it, how hard it was to fully kill off growth and economic activity after 8-10 years of trying.

It is hard to increase growth, for one reason, because people are kind of set in their ways.  They are not always dynamic, not willing to move to where jobs are, not eager to re-join the workforce after they've left.  They don't need to.  But keep this math in mind: going from 2% growth to 3% growth is a 50% increase and going from 2% growth to 4% growth is a 100% increase.  That still far understates the potential it as it ignores what Einstein allegedly called the most powerful force in the universe, the power of compound [growth].

Furman writes:  "absent much bigger productivity improvements..", and after listing all the headwinds limiting growth, writes: "That leaves productivity growth..."    What he ignores is that increasing capital from improving capital investment incentives IS what increases productivity, and capital is coming back in the trillions.

An administration that chased away capital and considered ways to punish it for leaving can't imagine that we can do things better than what we do right now.

"Everything that can be invented has been invented."
Charles Duell, Commissioner of US patent office, 1899

That is not my view or a supply side, dynamic economy view.  Government doesn't invent things for the most part or find better ways to do things.  Just the other way around, oversized government serves as a hindrance to all of that.

Lowering tax rates for production (companies, rich people) doesn't sound like a formula for economic growth to the Left, for one reason, because economic growth wasn't their goal in the first place.  But adding trillions of dollars into invested capital is exactly what enables productivity growth.

Without capital you can dig a hole with your hands and get nowhere.  With a little capital you can hire workers and equip them with shovels.  Efficient capitalism is what makes possible a Caterpillar or Cummins turbo diesel machine that you won't see in third world countries. Egyptians built the pyramids without horses - or a wheel - but now every advancement has already been made?  That is as false now as it was in 1899, or 2000 BC.  Even if it was true, what we already have invented is most certainly not being fully utilized!   Bringing back trillions of dollars of capital employs trillions of dollars of labor, along with productivity and wage increases.  Wages can't and don't increase without capital investment and Furman's fingerprints are all over the effort to kill off and chase away capital.  New initiatives are bringing old capital back and new capital in.  With that comes wage growth, employment growth and a rising economic tide.

On the dependency side of the Obama stagnation, many people in lower incomes face effective marginal tax rates over 100%.  For example, I made a few hundred dollars more one year and lost thousands of dollars on my daughter's college tuition support.  People can make a little more and lose healthcare support, SSI, housing, food stamps, etc. right after government drove up costs to where they can't afford them without help.  It is hard to reverse the damage they did to our economy and economic system, but is it possible to recognize we headed into a hole of our own digging and change the trajectory ever so slightly.  That effort is underway.  Can we get some who ride the system to start pulling?  Yes.  Can we get those who are pulling the wagon to pull with a little better traction and little more horsepower, and keep improving that until the plowhorse is powered with jet fuel and the weight of $20 trillion in debt feels like a load of pillows?  I don't know  but we had better do everything we can, soon!

It  takes a small increment of improvement on the margin to double the growth rate that Furman and the Democrats achieved, and that is the difference between a Venezuela-like collapse and prosperity.
14  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / North and South Korea, VDH on: February 15, 2018, 08:08:32 PM
Victor Davis Hanson makes a number of good points here.  He argues that we now have the upper hand, that time is on our side and that the US should use the 5 advantages we have right now (below) and not strike NK in desperation.

[Hanson]  "Bombing the North Koreans [now] ... would be an act of desperation, not an act of confidence."

"The world may not recognize it, but the U.S. is slowly winning."

[5 reasons the US has the upper hand right now:]

1. Japan, South Korea, and the United States are rushing to expand several missile-defense systems that may soon not just end North Korea’s first-strike capability, but China’s as well.

2. There is serious talk in Japan about developing nuclear weapons. Obviously, Japanese missiles would be pointed at North Korea and China, not the United States. The world has assumed over the last 20 years that unstable regimes such as North Korea, Iran, and Pakistan would go nuclear and threaten Western democracies. The next round of proliferation is more likely to be among Western democracies themselves. A nuclear Japan (or South Korea or Taiwan) would not be in China’s interest.

3. There is evidence that tough new sanctions are eroding an already anemic North Korea. The U.S. economy is booming; North Korea’s is collapsing. China already is preparing for a flood of refugees across the Chinese–North Korean border.

4. The United States has an array of ways to ratchet up pressure on China to force North Korea to denuclearize — ranging from tougher trade sanctions to denying visas to thousands of Chinese students and property holders.

5.  Donald Trump’s approval ratings are up somewhat. And with an improving economy, the Trump administration is gaining clout at home and abroad. On foreign matters, Trump is letting subordinates such as Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, Secretary of Defense James Mattis, National Security Adviser H. R. McMaster, Ambassador to the U.N. Nikki Haley, and CIA director Mike Pompeo do the talking. And they are lining up the world against North Korea.
15  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Intel Matters, While our agencies were chasing Trump on: February 15, 2018, 11:09:54 AM
Nikolas Cruz Was Reported to FBI As Potential School Shooter in September (Screenshot of Threat)
February 15, 2018
16  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Trump's accomplishments, new ambassador to Australia on: February 14, 2018, 11:47:08 PM
Take a look at Trump's new ambassador to Australia, a fierce, military man who takes strong opposition to China's expansionism in the South China Sea , for example.
17  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / War on the rule of law, Sharyl Attkisson on: February 13, 2018, 10:43:59 PM
Attkisson follow up:

May 21, 2013
CBS Is Investigating How A Reporter's Computer Was Compromised

May 22, 2013
JUSTICE DEPARTMENT: We Never 'Compromised' CBS Reporter's Computers
18  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The war on the rule of law on: February 12, 2018, 11:19:30 PM
Wasn't there something about how she got caught overstating her claims in this regard?

I tried to look that up because I trust her as a source. Found something from 2013, (business insider, sorry no link) but the Obama Holder DOJ denying wrongdoing doesn't mean it didn't happen.
19  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / An inside look at gang activity and thinking in Chicago on: February 10, 2018, 09:32:53 AM
The Strange Realities of Chicago’s Gang Wars
Terrible decisions follow cold calculation

One writer talks to one gang member and gets a lot of sad and stupid insight into what is happening in Chicago's most murderous neighborhood.  
20  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: US Economics, the stock market , and other investment/savings strategies on: February 10, 2018, 09:28:02 AM
Something positive on Wesbury, imports should be added to exports for economic value, not subtracted and Wesbury does exactly that:  " trade (exports + imports) sits at record levels."

But trade protectionism is more than a risk with trump since he promised a lot and has delivered a little so far.  More expensive washing machines helps us how?

Of the other pillars, monetary policy still puts us at high risk.  What we sowed for nearly decades we will someday reap.  Someday might be 2018...   Our insane, short sighted monetary policy of expansionism, zero interest rate policy, etc. gave us artificial stimulus of perhaps little or no value but the consequence of ridding ourselves of that policy abuse could be costly in the extreme.  As interest rates go up and they must, what happens?  Stocks come down?  Wealth effect goes down. Bonds become more attractive. Cost of debt goes up.  Who has a lot of debt?  [America].  Real estate values come down. For every $x/mo a buyer is willing to pay for a certain house at 3% interest, what happens to the purchase price at 6% interest if same buyer is willing to pay or constrained by the same monthly payment?  Price goes down with every quarter point move, all other things equal.  We learned in 2008-2009 real estate is part of the economy. A big part of America's wealth is in real estate values.  The raising of near zero rates is necessary, inevitable and beneficial.  Surviving it will be a tight rope walk.

The other pillars:  Deregulation, yes, Trump has done amazing things but just the low hanging fruit.  Some of the most brutal regulations lie at the state and especially local levels.  Our regulatory state and anti-entrepreneurial mentality is still a dominant force across the fruited plain.  Don't believe me?  Try opening a lemonade stand.

Taxes, yes, partial reform.  But most crucial for the economy tends to be the highest individual rates.  Those dropped from 39.6 to 37%, hardly at all while losing key deductions, not exactly unleashing 'animal spirits'.  Capital gains rates were not lowered and still taxed as ordinary income at the state level.  We still tax inflationary 'gains' as 'gains', talk about distortions!  

Spending, up and up.  And that is before Democrats take back Washington.  Government spending takes resources away from the private economy whether you tax to pay for them or not.

Debt, up and up.  Cost of debt with rising interest rates, up and way up.  

If spending makes the deficit go up, tax rate cuts will be blamed.  Leftism still controls the media, academia, and nearly all messaging, except one loose nut with a twitter account.  Said of George W Bush, he gave supply side economics a bad name - without trying it.

Paying for the $13 trillion direct cost of the Obama Presidency, $9 trillion new debt plus $4 trillion in quantitative expansion... that cost hits the economy when? How?  What about the other damage?  75% of Mexican immigrants are on some kind of welfare, just reported.  A new generation or two of Americans were taught to be recipients in a redistributive economy, permanently out of the workforce.  We have entire communities where 50% of adults don't work.  More Americans than ever dependent on government for healthcare.  And we look to make more voters out of people who came here for benefits.  

There are some good trend lines emerging, but there are some enormous, accumulated problems unaddressed.

GM:  "Trump bought us time..."  Also the Republican majorities in the House and Senate, but how was that time used?  Chasing shiny objects or making real reforms?  Mostly the former and their time of holding majorities could be ending.

What brought the economy down last time?  The election of the Pelosi-Reid congress signaled the shift in policies coming and scared capital to the exits.  The economic damage of anti-capitalism was not at all limited to those invested in the markets.
21  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Baraq the Leaker on: February 06, 2018, 01:20:04 PM

A great and scary article.  When a President discloses something, it is no longer classified because he, by definition, has that power.  That does not excuse lower officials leaking what has NOT been declassified and the conspiracy all the way up to commit this felony.  It does not excuse getting Americans needlessly killed or negating the value of our intelligence and military assets. The article gives a good look into how these people worked the intertwined wheels of Leftist government, media, deep state and power.  Nixon and the old Soviets would blush at this; they never had THIS kind of power.

I believe that exposing all of this even after the fact is crucial.  If we cannot hold these officials accountable, when does the corrupt media pay a price for their part in the conspiracy to manipulate of the public?   Sadly, this doesn't reach or offend any on that side of the political divide.  Ends justify means.
22  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Russian conspiracy, Comey, related matters on: February 06, 2018, 12:58:23 PM
From Baraq the leaker in a couple of other threads:

From the article and relevant to this discussion:

Remarks by former Trump National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, as well as Mr. Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and former top White House strategist Steve Bannon, were all captured in surveillance of a Trump Tower meeting in December 2016. Susan E. Rice, Mr. Obama’s national security adviser, has since acknowledged she asked that the identities of the Americans in the surveillance be revealed, citing what she said were legitimate concerns about the purpose of the group’s meeting with foreigners.
I don't know how any of this works or the accuracy of anything I read, but the question was posed, how does a tap into Carter Page, a former volunteer campaign adviser, starting 2 weeks before the election, get you to all these other treasure troves.  It seems to me the above is an answer to that.
23  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: President Trump can be a stupid anus sometimes: "Treason"?!? on: February 06, 2018, 12:49:45 PM
Stupid? Yes and I don't approve, but strategic? Maybe. 
1) He called them out for disapproving of America and its accomplishments, not just his policies.
2) Maybe he is desensitizing people to extreme language that is so easily bandied about - like "impeachment".  60 elected Democrat representatives already voted to begin impeachment hearings before a high crime has been identified.  And it's reported like news.
3) The whole Russian investigation is a treason accusation against him without a shred of evidence to support it that we know about and everyone of stature including every identifiable Democrat says the investigation should go on until completion.  How do THEY like the game they started?  When did YOU stop beating your wife?
4) Fighting back with William F Buckley level dignity doesn't work in 2018.  It didn't work then either.
5) Which side is off their rocker?

24  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Nuclear War, WMD issues on: February 05, 2018, 09:51:44 AM
"Funny how Trump keeps doing things that aren't in Russia's best interest."

yes and bizarre logic comparing Trump to McCarthy when it is the *LEFt* accusing him or anyone near him of colluding with Putin anytime they are within a mile of anyone or anything Russian!

Yet the media runs with this nonsense

That's right.  They are the accusers.  All we have seen of collusion so far is evidence that Democrats were working with foreign agents, the intel community and media to interfere with the results of an election.

Projection:  Of what the Left accuses, assume they are doing it.
25  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: WSJ: Strassel: Did Steele really snooker the FBI? on: February 05, 2018, 09:44:13 AM
"described by former FBI Director James Comey as “salacious and unverified.”  "

This is a key point because it comes under oath from Comey, but it omits the bigger points, the Dossier is false and plagiarized.

"The FBI got fooled by a source, or it knew its source was lying, or it didn’t bother to check, or it was too incompetent to see the obvious. Take your pick. None of the possibilities look good, especially if you’re a FISA judge."

Assuming the Obama appointed FISA court judge is not part of the conspiracy!
Thanks Crafty for clarifying the question.  I hope those answers come to us.  I want the whole truth to come out wherever it falls.
26  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Russian conspiracy, Comey, related matters on: February 05, 2018, 09:11:04 AM
...this jumped out at me:
"How did they know all about Flynn before they questioned him if the campaign and administration wasn't being spied on by our own agencies?"

Ummm, because, as we most certainly should, we were listening in on the Russians?
If I have this right, it is more than a little feeble of this article to proffer such BS.

I edited my post since then to separate their link from my questions.  That 'BS' was mine. )  The Gateway link purports to answer your question but also falls a little short.

To your question:  
"1) Carter Page had left the Trump campaign before the FISA warrant application was approved.  So how is this a boot strapping into listening in on the Trump campaign?"

According to others, Carter Page was still in contact with the campaign and that seems to be the connection to the others - "in his circle".  

The Mukasey piece seems quite level headed on the issue.  I agree, we need to see the (redacted) FISA applications and we need to know the underlying evidence of a crime they are investigating, sooner rather than later.  

Another center of this scandal is the unmasking.  To your question, how is this a boot strap into listening into the Trump campaign (and transition and administration?), I think the unmasking documents will tell that story.  [How did we know it was Flynn? Flynn was unmasked.  Why?  By Whom?]

Recall this roadblock, well covered on the forum:
JW: NSC buries Susan Rice unmasking materials at Obama Library
« Reply #108 on: June 19, 2017, 08:46:18 PM »   Crafty_Dog  
Judicial Watch today announced that the National Security Council (NSC) on May 23, 2017, informed it by letter that the materials regarding the unmasking by Obama National Security Advisor Susan Rice of “the identities of any U.S. citizens associated with the Trump presidential campaign or transition team” have been removed to the Obama Library. The NSC will ***not*** fulfill a Judicial Watch request for records regarding information relating to people “who were identified pursuant to intelligence collection activities.” Specifically, the NSC told Judicial Watch: 'Documents from the Obama administration have been transferred to the Barack Obama Presidential Library. You may send your request to the Obama Library. However, you should be aware that under the Presidential Records Act, Presidential records remain closed to the public for five years after an administration has left office.' Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said: “Prosecutors, Congress, and the public will want to know when the National Security Council shipped off the records about potential intelligence abuses by the Susan Rice and others in the Obama White House to the memory hole of the Obama Presidential Library. We are considering our legal options but we hope that the Special Counsel and Congress also consider their options and get these records.”
The tracks are covered.   I don't believe we need to wait 5 years for documents needed in a criminal investigation!
If Mueller won't pursue this, The President should hire someone who will.

And it's time for us to bring Rick N. back in on this, who had it right from the beginning:
27  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Two tough questions for us on: February 04, 2018, 03:49:49 PM
Crafty, I don't know the answer to those. One take is here:
[Doug] We will know more if/when more complete information comes out.  How did they know all about Flynn before they questioned him if the campaign and administration wasn't being spied on by our own agencies?  Why did they delay his sentencing?  Why wasn't Hillary questioned under oath?  She would be facing the same charges as Flynn only to a much higher underlying crime.  Why did Mueller hire DNC donors?  Why were these people hired, trusted, fired, McCabe, Ohr, Lisa Page, Strzok?  Did Comey commit a crime?  Should Mueller recuse himself over Comey?  If this group that can't shoot straight, issues a damning report now, could anyone rely on it?

While the Sunday shows are in denial that something big went wrong, I would ask:  
1. Is it a big deal to get a FISA court order to wiretap a US citizen?  Yes, hugely!
2.  Did they know the infdormation they were submitting was false, four times?  Yes, obviously!
3.  Does the other side, the suspect, get a say in a FISA court hearing?  No.
4.  Will those who perpetrated a fraud on the court pay a price for this, 4 times over?  No.  Only the American people will pay.  The abuse of this power will result in the loss of this power and leave the US susceptible to attacks on a scale of 9/11 and greater.

I don't buy the line that nothing much happened here.  This is an investigation into FOLLOWING THE RULES!

We pay $75billion/year for 200,000 intelligence agents and for the most important issue of our time (apparently) they submitted the Steele report to get the wiretap order, not written by Steele as shown in these pages, loaded with obviously false information like the "golden showers".  Trump hired prostitutes to pee on a hotel room bed because he believed Barack Obama, a half black man, once slept there.  Who doesn't that strike as absurd?  Did they hire people to pee on the White House too??  No matter how despicable you think Trump is, this whole thing is absurd.  Bad choice of words, but who applied the smell test to it?  Pictured here with Mohammed Ali and Rosas Parks receiving the Ellis Island award, racism is not what anyone honestly thinks is what primarily motivates Trump.  Money, power and ego all come ahead of any racism.

It's Year Two of a politically intentional cloud over the trump administration.  Is the public entitled to one shred of real evidence of illegal collusion by Trump with the Russians to support why this is STILL under investigation?
28  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: We are fuct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on: February 04, 2018, 02:43:11 PM

People are irresponsibly keeping too much of their own hard earned money!

"In a report this week, the CBO said tax receipts are going to be lower because of the new tax law."

  - CBO predicts 0.1/yr growth increase resulting from the new tax law.  They are Deniers of Science, IMHO.  More recently, Atlanta Fed predicts 5.4% Q1 2018 growth.  Who are you going to believe?  I would say neither.  These are forecasts, not economic results.

"The latest borrowing figure — $955 billion — released this week was determined from a survey of bond market participants,"

  - A survey of particpasnts?!  How many months actual data since the tax law change went into effect are they citing?  [Zero, obviously]  All they are saying is that they think bringing the US business tax rate back to our global competitor's levels will have no measurable effect on growth.

"The latest example of largesse is the GOP tax bill. It's expected to add $1 trillion or more to the debt, "

   - Besides wrong, that figure is over ten years, not mentioned, when everything else in the article is per year.  By their wrong own numbers the tax law contributes one tenth of their projected deficit, but they would have their readers believe it is all of it.   Hit job or sloppy reporting?

"Under Reagan, borrowing spiked because of a buildup in the military,"

   - 1/4th of the spending increase under Reagan was from military spending so that statement is 3/4ths wrong.  Must be true, they learned in liberal reporter school.  It was a "buildup" only if you think the neglected military at the end of the Ford-Carter years was already at sufficient levels.  Military spending increase was 800B and the Soviet Union fell.  Total spending increase over 8 years was approx $3.2T, 4 times the military increase.

The Treasury needs to be prepared to borrow money to pay bills whether the economy grows or not.  That does not mean they "expect" no new economic growth.

The $955 Billion number is not listed at the link cited in the article:

We wasted $9 trillion in deficit and $4 trillion in quantitative expansion and over eight years, left this trend line in place as cited and no one batted an eye, but let's panic now - instead of reporting highest wage growth in a generation.  What page was THAT on?

[Did the Washington Post used to be better before the Bezos era?]

29  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Dalrymple on: February 04, 2018, 07:26:35 AM
Not exactly a quote, but quite pithy:

Dalrymple's key insight in Life at the Bottom is that long-term poverty is caused not by economics but by a dysfunctional set of values, one that is continually reinforced by an elite culture searching for victims. This culture persuades those at the bottom that they have no responsibility for their actions and are not the molders of their own lives.

Poor people have poor ways.
30  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: McCain on: February 03, 2018, 07:59:11 AM
McCain was part of the conspiracy.

Or was he just the dupe that delivered the dossier.
31  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Spengler is correct on: February 02, 2018, 07:46:20 PM

"Some may consider it dangerous to expose senior officials of America’s counterintelligence service as political hacks and fools. They needn’t worry. America’s adversaries have been well aware of this for a long time."
32  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Immigrants cost taxpayers 56% more for health care than native born on: February 02, 2018, 06:03:14 PM

By 2013, 25 percent of immigrants and their children were on Medicaid, compared to 16 percent of natives and their children.”

Those entering the U.S. legally are required to be screened for infectious disease.   [Those entering illegally are not.]

“Illegal immigration may expose Americans to diseases that have been virtually eradicated, but are highly contagious, as in the case of TB […] Immigrants coming here have been documented as having communicable diseases such as tuberculosis and swine flu […] individuals coming in contact with people with these diseases are at risk of becoming infected. Those most vulnerable to contracting illnesses from illegals are the first responders such as the Border Patrol agents. In turn, they may pass diseases and conditions on to their children, spouses, seniors and those with whom they come in contact who have compromised immune systems […] It isn’t the diseases that we have been vaccinated against that are the most concerning, but ones like TB, which have developed multiple drug resistance, or tropical diseases such as Dengue fever that doctors may have difficulty diagnosing and for which there is no treatment.”
33  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Memo, text and salient points on: February 02, 2018, 04:16:29 PM

Here are some salient points, put together by John Hinderaker:  (full text below)

* The FISA warrants that are the subject of the memo all relate to Carter Page. The original warrant was sought on October 21, 2016, and the memo says that there were three renewals, which apparently occur every 90 days. This would appear to take the surveillance well past the presidential election, and beyond President Trump’s inauguration. The memo does not explain this aspect of the timing. The FISA applications were signed by some familiar names: James Comey signed three, and Andrew McCabe, Sally Yates and Rod Rosenstein all signed one or more.

* The fake “dossier” compiled by Christopher Steele with the assistance of unknown Russians “formed an essential part of the Carter Page FISA application. In fact, McCabe testified before the committee that no FISA warrant would have been sought without the fake dossier. Steele was paid over $160,000 by the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign to come up with derogatory information–true or false, apparently–on Donald Trump.

* DOJ and FBI failed to mention in their FISA application that it was based on opposition research paid for by the Clinton campaign and the DNC, even though this apparently was known to the FBI. The application apparently tried to mislead the FISA court by saying that Steele “was working for a named U.S. person”–the memo doesn’t tell us who that person was–but not disclosing Fusion GPS or Glenn Simpson, let alone Hillary Clinton and the DNC. This appears to be a deliberate deception of the court.

* In addition to Steele’s fake dossier, the FISA application cited an article about Carter Page that appeared on Yahoo News. The application “assessed” that this corroborating account did not originate with Christopher Steele. In fact, it did: Steele himself leaked the information to Yahoo News.

* The memo casually notes that “the FBI had separately authorized payment to Steele for the same information.” This is news to me. It has been reported that Steele sought funding from the FBI, but I believe prior reports have been to the effect that the Bureau refused. Was the FBI paying Steele, known to be working for the Hillary Clinton campaign?

* Steele was terminated as an FBI source for leaking to news outlets about his relationship with the Bureau. The memo says that Steele should have been terminated for the same reason in September, before the first FISA application, because of other news media contacts, “but Steele improperly concealed from and lied to the FBI about those contacts.”

* Bruce Ohr’s involvement is even worse than we thought. In September 2016, according to the FBI’s files, Steele told Ohr that he “was desperate that Donald Trump not get elected and was passionate about him not being president.” The FBI hid this from the FISA court. Not only that, Ohr’s wife went to work for Fusion GPS and was part of the opposition research effort against candidate Trump. “Ohr later provided the FBI with all of his wife’s opposition research, paid for by the DNC and Clinton campaign via Fusion GPS. The Ohrs’ relationship with Steele and Fusion GPS was inexplicably concealed from the FISC.”

* At the time of the FBI’s initial application for a FISA warrant in October, its effort to corroborate Steele’s report was in its “infancy,” according to the Bureau. Subsequently, an FBI report characterized Steele’s dossier as “only minimally corroborated.” Nonetheless, in January 2017 James Comey purported to “brief” president-elect Trump on the contents of Steele’s fake report, at which time the report was leaked to the press.

* The memo ends with a brief reference to George Papadopoulos, who had a slight relationship to Trump’s campaign. FBI agent Peter Strzok opened a counterintelligence investigation into Papadopoulos in July 2016.

The Intelligence Committee memo obviously outlines a major scandal that indicts principal figures in the FBI, including James Comey, Andrew McCabe, and Sally Yates and Rod Rosenstein, unless the latter two officials were unaware of the fraud that was being perpetrated on the federal court. Whether some of those involved should go to prison would require a careful examination of relevant federal statutes.

The memo leaves much unsaid. The timing is unclear, at least to me. It sounds as though the FBI continued to renew its FISA warrant long after it had terminated its relationship with Steele and knew, or should have known, that his information was bogus. Why? Did the FBI tell the FISA court in these renewal applications that it had terminated its relationship with Steele, or that it had been unable to corroborate his claims? Presumably not.

Also, we don’t know what was done with the information that was collected about Carter Page–and, of course, about anyone with whom he communicated. This is where the enormous number of “unmasking” requests by Obama officials like Susan Rice come in. Did the Obama administration use the ill-gotten FISA warrants to spy, not only on Carter Page, but on others who had some relationship with Trump, or even Trump himself? Did the Obama administration pass information obtained from improper surveillance on to the Clinton campaign, or leak it to the press after the election?

The Intelligence Committee memo is a major step forward, but we have not yet gotten to the bottom of what happened in the heavily-politicized Department of Justice and FBI.
Full text:

34  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Well well well we have a Black Democrat who spoke the truth on: February 02, 2018, 04:04:18 PM
How times have changed.  Immigrants use to compete for jobs and now they compete for program benefits, and jobs.  In either case, black men will be the next group to break, in part, from the liberal bloc.  Not black women yet, as a group they are incorrigibly liberal.  Same goes for legal Hispanics. ; some are receptive to conservative principles. Some part of your vote is based on economics and your own family's best interests.  New entrants compete for jobs, benefits, housing.
35  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Memo! on: February 02, 2018, 03:50:56 PM
A historical day, as most tragedies are. The FBI needs to be dissolved and lots of people need to go to prison.

Does this fit under RICO for prosecuting organized crime?
36  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Immigration issues, Look Back at Democrats in 2013 on: February 02, 2018, 10:20:27 AM
While y'all were getting on Marco Rubio for being a traitor, siding with schumer, look what they got all Democrats to vote for, Durbin to end chain migration, Schumer to end the lottery, Elizabeth Warren to secure the border?  Oh Lordy!

2013: All Senate Dems voted to build border fence, kill visa lottery, end chain migration

All Senate Democrats united with two independent senators in 2013 to push through a comprehensive immigration reform plan to build a border fence and end “chain migration” and the visa lottery, positions they now oppose because they are in President Trump’s immigration package.

Led by Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, 52 Democrats and two independents (also Democrats) OK’d the legislation.

It called for “no fewer than 700 miles” of border fencing.  It also included a section detailing the end of the diversity visa, a lottery for green cards meant to diversify the U.S. immigrant population.

List of senators who voted for immigration reform in 2013.
And it rewrote rules for which relatives of legal immigrants could come in, the so-called “chain migration” blueprint, to limit the numbers.

The provisions that were included in the legislation sponsored by Schumer, S.744 - Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act, are very similar to those Trump is now pushing.

The bill ultimately failed in the House.  But it it did win in the Senate, 68-32. All no votes were Republican.

37  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Immigration issues, Americans are Dreamers too! on: February 02, 2018, 10:09:41 AM
I have complained that liberals are stealing our language.  The term "Dreamers" is a perfect example of that.  "Dreamers" include great people, thugs and gang members,  why are they one group?  And, as ccp would ask, why are their dreams more important than ours?

...especially clear in his most memorable line, "Americans are Dreamers, too."

I cringed when I heard that.  Trump was ignoring or forgetting the rules of political correctness.  Scott Rasmussen took it differently:

In just four words, a president not known for his eloquence turned years of Democratic branding and messaging against them. Trump brazenly and succinctly re-defined the public imagery surrounding the term Dreamers in a way that infuriated the political left. Topher Spiro of the liberal Center for American Progress, called it "intentionally divisive." CNN reported that others thought the line "marginalized immigrants."
38  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Immigration issues on: February 02, 2018, 09:57:14 AM
The default dem position on immigration is absolute open borders now and forever.

Right.  This was exposed in the 2016 Presidential debate.  Immigration was the issue that allegedly what made DT an extremist.  But when Hillary's turn came, she expressed not one word of support for securing the border or having any limit on legal or illegal administration.

Compare that with responsible things President Clinton said in his SOTU, or even the comprehensive bill including both security and limits supported by all Dems in 2013.

The contrast on this issue between Trump and Hillary couldn't have been more stark and Trump won the election.
39  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Education, Katherine Kersten, Edina MN schools, "Racial Equality" focus on: February 01, 2018, 05:35:39 PM
If you care about K-12 Education and are not a Leftist, please get to know the research and writing of Kathy Kersten, most recently on the changes at Edina Schools.  (eee-Dine-ah)

The district that the Left is trying to change has been one of the best and top performing districts in one of the highest rated education states.  Best because of two parent families, affluence, good values, etc.  What is happening in this is NOT unique to Edina schools.  It is the investigative journalism funded by Center for the American Experiment that is unique.  This is all happening in a school district near you too, building new little Leftists from the ground up.
From the article: The shift began in 2013, when Edina school leaders adopted the “All for All” strategic plan—a sweeping initiative that reordered the district’s mission from academic excellence for all students to “racial equity.”
"K-2 students: “Stop thinking your skin color is better than anyone elses!-[sic] Everyone is special!”
 A course description of an 11th-grade U.S. Literature and Composition course puts it this way: “By the end of the year, you will have . . . learned how to apply marxist [sic], feminist, post-colonial [and] psychoanalytical . . .lenses to literature.”
One student characterized the course this way on the “Rate My Teachers” website: “This class should be renamed . . . ‘Why white males are bad, and how oppressive they are.’”
"...their son and a classmate to a lengthy, humiliating and ideologically charged grilling—unlike that faced by other students—after the boys made a presentation with which she disagreed following racially-charged incidents in Ferguson, Missouri."
The result of all of this? Four years into the Edina schools’ equity crusade, black students’ test scores continue to disappoint. ... other than that, the news is all bad. Black students “on track for success” in reading decreased from 48.1 percent in 2014 to 44.9 percent in 2017. Math scores decreased from 49.6 percent proficiency in 2014 to 47.4 percent in 2017. Black students “on track for success” in math decreased from 51.4 percent in 2014 to 44.7 percent in 2017.
40  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politics, glue on the seats on: February 01, 2018, 04:58:34 PM
Great reported prank that someone snuck into the SOTU room Tuesday and glued the Democrats seats before they entered.  Seriously, doesn't the non-reaction of the Democrats to such an impressive list of successes, lowest black unemployment rate ever, and even acts of heroism by people other than Trump prove the point about the Left's fear of Trump.  They aren't afraid that he will fail as President of the United States; they are afraid he will succeed!
41  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Tax Policy, Seattle Soda Tax, smuggling Soda in on: February 01, 2018, 03:07:14 PM

Somewhere in here is a lesson or two we should have already learned.

Gentle versus coercive paternalism, if soda is so bad, why don't they ban it and assign big penalties for possession and consumption.

Instead we get to study how far rich, medium income and poor people will drive to save a dollar or two:
"...what’s interesting about his story is that it shows how incredibly price sensitive people appear to be."

"It’s near impossible for me to sell this now. They go over there, one block away, and there’s no tax.”
I don’t have strong views one way or another about Seattle’s new soda tax. I’m reserving the full force of my ire for when they jack up the tax on beer."

Seattle times and their readers have subjected themselves to reality coverage.  Tax something and people will cross a border to avoid paying the tax.  So it goes for soda but the highest tax rates are on work and investment.

42  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Medicaid Expansion is PARTLY to blame for opioid cirisis on: February 01, 2018, 02:55:27 PM
Welfare without controls or connections makes all social problems worse.  Imagine this, what if people paid for their drugs instead of getting free sh*t to abuse as they choose.

Googling this connection the first thing I found was a Washington Post article debunking it, a contrary indicator making it a little more true.  The second says correlation and causation are different.  Okay.  This crisis didn't get worse only in Medicaid expansion states, but there is some link.

The Senate report notes that those with a Medicaid card can get prescriptions for opioids, such as oxycodone, for as little as $1 for up to 240 pills. Those pills, however, can be sold on the street for up to $4,000.  By vastly expanding Medicaid, ObamaCare contributed significantly to this problem, the Senate report found.
43  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Another Trump accomplishment - Make Gitmo Full Again, Guantanamo on: February 01, 2018, 02:25:05 PM
44  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Hillbillary Clintons, Shearer Dossier has ties to Sid Blumenthal on: February 01, 2018, 02:15:36 PM
What is worse for his credibility than ties to the Clintons, ties to Sid!

The Second Dossier Shiny Object had a half life of less than a day.
As for Shearer, he has a long history of dirty tricks. He’s been linked to Whitewater-era efforts to dirty up Bill Clinton critics; to shakedown politics involving the Cheyenne-Arapaho Indian tribe; and to fronting for Bosnian Serb butcher Radovan Karadzic.
Blumenthal is probably behind BOTH Dossiers.  Good enough to get a FISA warrant, a wiretap and a Flynn plea.  Until exposed.
45  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / California, L.A.'s homelessness surged 75% in six years on: February 01, 2018, 01:45:41 PM
Stories of the poor getting poorer in Calif do not refute other stories of the rich getting richer in Calif or that income inequality is getter wider.

L.A.'s homelessness surged 75% in six years.
"We are moving more homeless families and adults into housing," said Phil Ansell, director of the Los Angeles County Homeless Initiative. "What we have less control over is the inflow...

"We are dealing with historical consequences of bad decisions made 10 years ago to guarantee a right to sidewalks..."

46  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / US-Russia: Electronic Warfare on: February 01, 2018, 01:20:19 PM
Hard to say how this squares with my previous post that Russian military spending is tanking with their economy, but on the other side of it they seem to be flying by us in the area of electronic warfare.

Maybe Facebook raising their advertising rates will squeeze Russia and their ability to accelerate chaos in the US.
47  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Flynn Sentencing Delayed on: February 01, 2018, 01:13:26 PM
Read what you want into this, it is timed with the release of the memo presumably exposing that the FBI had no valid, legal reason for questioning Flynn.
48  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Citizen-Police interactions on: February 01, 2018, 12:59:03 PM
"...where the officer shot to death a middle aged black man fleeing on a traffic violation in the back and then was caught on civilian camera calmly planting a gun he happened to have on him at the time.
Things like this do terrible damage."

Agreed!  There are a few bad ones in every profession and they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law!  Knowing your partner or fellow officer committed a felony and helping to cover it up is also a felony, right?

Shooting a man in the back is murder in most situations even if you are police, and planting evidence is another felony. 

It's strange that the whole political movement was energized by wrongly reported events, and innocent blacks in Baltimore are examples of people hurt most by the movement. 

After all the stigmatizing of inner city police, I have not seen North Minneapolis police get out of their squad cars in a long time.  In St Paul, the number of applicants is down by 85% in four years. 

Without an active police presence, gangs rule the streets and things like this happen (to my tenant).
49  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Immigration issues on: February 01, 2018, 12:35:00 PM
The WAsh compost article from the Far LEft millennial makes no sense.
She states the Dreamers to citizens is a no brainer and everyone is for it and therefore it is a given.  So why is Trump's offer a compromise?
He just tripled it to 2 million - that is why!
And it is a gift to give them citizenship , especially so when they are here breaking out laws .  
And what about their families who brought them here illegally ?  We all know they will be next in line to cry on CNN .
And what about relatives of those born here of those who took advantage of our law that anyone born on US soil is an automatic citizen .  How more millions and of course all their families are we talking about . Probably 30- to 40 % of California!  

ccp, I agree you and we had an election on this.  Further, the 'dreamers' militant involvement in their own negotiations makes this situation uglier, makes it clear there will be no thankfulness or political benefit for helping them.

I posted the compost article just to try to understand why Democrats didn't jump all over a deal we see as a giveaway.  They want 'dreamers' legalized for nothing in exchange and they want ALL illegals legalized and NOT fix the system that let them in.

Note that when they controlled the entire Executive Branch, the House of Representatives and had 60 votes in the Senate, they didn't do it!  Now they don't so Democrat hardlining should easily be exposed as posing for political advantage rather than trying to help a mostly sympathetic group.

This issue defines a slippery slope argument.  If you enforce the law as it is - you are racist.  If you legalize 800,000 - you must do 2 million.  If you do 2 million - you must do  12 million, 60 million.  If you legalize - you must make them citizens.  And if you give all of that - they want Puerto Rico to be a state.  Then they would leave the border open, get it back as an issue and do it all again.

All that said, it doesn't define what Trump or Republicans should do now.  He can't just say no; he has to offer something so offered them all of DACA in exchange for all he needs on immigration.  Trump bought time on DACA.  He exposed and shrunk Schumer with the shutdown mess.  He has dangled a deal that solves it for 'dreamers' and solves it for border security for now.  It ends chain migration which is BIG.  It leaves all other illegals wanting theirs, so that issue stays alive for Democrats, but it removes their leverage on the issue because the security side and lottery and the chain migration issues have all been addressed.

Still missing:  Ending the anchor baby misinterpretation of law, defeating the sanctuaries and dealing with the rest of the illegals.

Maybe we should legalize one person for each that we deport based on the merit system.  Then when we get through the best of the DACA and the worst of the criminals it will be the illegal and Hispanic communities that holler stop.
50  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Immigration issues, Trump's DACA offer viewed from the Left on: February 01, 2018, 09:59:30 AM
"Trump’s immigration ‘compromise’ is a trick"

Her point is that DACA / Dreamer legalization and citizenship has enough support to pass on its own.  Why should Trump get all these other things with it?

My thought, why are we still dealing with people in (electoral) groups.  Some 'dreamers' deserve an upgrade, some deserve arrest, some deserve deportation.   I would upgrade all the ones that they describe, served in the military, live their whole life here without breaking our laws, came through no fault of their own, self supporting, not living off the dole, etc.  Use the merit based system now, where we have some information on them.

The flip side of her argument is, why do we need to give any illegals a gift in order to call for securing our borders.  That should stand alone and their existence and residence here proves that the border as it sits has not been secure - and people are still over-staying their visas.  Chain migration is wrong and the legal lottery is wrong.  Those issues are popular and also could be passed on their own, if not for the power the party has over its representatives.

Is Trump's a good deal (for us)?  I don't know, but since Democrats won't take it, it flips the blame on the issue.
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