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5751  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Abortion - Unregulated medicine? on: May 06, 2012, 02:53:24 PM
Are you saying there should be no regulations about doctors informing patients before a procedure or just not on this one- because killing a human heartbeat is shameful?  I kind of like it your way, no government regulations whatsoever on doctors and medicine.  We are all big kids now.  We can do our own due diligence?

Wouldn't a woman with a conscience want to know forever that she got the fetus in early pregnancy removed before it had a heartbeat - verfied by sonagram?

Why would a woman without a conscience, like the one Doonesbury demeans, give a rat's ass if it had a heartbeat or not.  If you have no conscience, no respect whatsoever for unborn life, there is no shame.

Does the 24 waiting period for the clinic procedure drive her instead to stabbing it in the back alley with the coat hanger?  (The Court ruled that it does not.) That, you might recall, was a main objection of Rachel's to prohibiting abortion.  They will abort, legal or not.  Responsibility can not be taught or learned. (?)

Funny that when you agree with the court like legalized abortion, it is right because 'the Court ruled on it', but these reasonable restrictions on abortions were upheld by the same court.  Yet you object and call it GOP (We The People) inflicting shame (sharing medical information).  

With logic one might think that being fully informed would help to prevent the shame after the fact that so many experience.  What do you think of THAT for a women's right, a law requiring women to be fully informed before killing their young.  Ooops, you already answered it.  You oppose it and show no deference for a ruling already made by the highest Court in the land on the matter, not the Texas GOP, the U.S Supreme Court.
As an aside, the Democrat party controlled Texas for a hundred years up through the mid 1990s. The GOP doesn't control Texas or write the laws, the people do.  Dems lost control, FYI, because the national party went nuts on issues like this one.
5752  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Abortion on: May 05, 2012, 05:50:50 PM
Perfect if straw is your only argument. We have a humor thread if you think that's funny.

Why wouldn't you want to hear it's heart beat before you kill it?
5753  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Parenting Issues, Jon Will on: May 05, 2012, 03:01:47 PM
A couple of follow up thoughts on the beautiful George Will story about his son.  He closes by saying his son will enjoy his birthday at his favorite activity, a baseball game.  Later I recalled what a baseball enthusiast and Red Sox fan the father is.  There is quite a joy in finding that your offspring end up loving some of the same things in life that you do.  Personally I'm grateful my daughter loves the same sports that I do.  No idea how that happened.  Her favorite orchestral piece that they performed this spring is perhaps a favorite of 3 generations before her.
5754  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Abortion on: May 05, 2012, 03:00:08 PM
The same George Will piece above ran in our local paper and I noticed a letter to the editor later in follow up said that his joy and pride should not mean that the other 90% should be judged in the decisions they made to kill off these imperfect, innocent family members developing in the womb upon learning of their defects.  My view: Yes, you will be judged for that.
In other news, some states require in the abortion process a viewing of the ultrasound and a listening to the heart beat and a lady is donating iPods to the clinics to make that 'listening' less informing.
5755  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Issues in Constitutional Law: General Motors bailout on: May 05, 2012, 02:39:01 PM
Taking some discussion from the Presidential 2012 thread over to here. 

Asked: "The authority to make such a move [selective privater company bailouts and investments] is contained in Article ___ of the constitution?"

Court citations?
Other bailouts were going on at that time like AIG, Bear Stearns.  I recall a congressional committee questioning the Treasury Secretary and Fed Chair (video link below) about where they derived that authority [to bail out non-financial institutions].  Which provision in the constitution gives authority to the Treasury for the extraordinary actions taken?  Geithner literally could not grasp the question much less the answer, kept answering that congress had authorized it.  Bernancke pointed to congressional right to authorize funds as they did in TARP to the 1930s legislation for emergency lending in financial crisis.  Could not point to a constitutional limit on that authority. "The actions we've taken have been solely and entirely in the interest of protecting the American economy from financial collapse."  A brokerage here, an insurance company there.  General Motors not mentioned.  Ends justify means.
Video:  Interesting question and non-answers, that's all.

If congress has the power to authorize funds, is there no limit on how it is spent?

The equal protection clause limits the powers of States: 'No State shall... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.' 

Is there an unenumerated right to equal treatment from the federal government or where does the constitution limit the federal government from picking winners and losers in the private economy, to pick a better connected competitor and give them competitive advantage over you to survive and to prosper.  No limits?

Perhaps it comes back to powers that were never granted to congress or the executive in the first place.  Did the power to regulate interstate commerce in our founding mean the power to alter the playing field in favor of certain players, at the disadvantage of others in private commerce including private commercial, legal contracts, such as the position of the secured bondholders of General Motors?

Did "promote the general Welfare" and "those things of a general welfare that they could not provide themselves" mean no limits?  Bernancke referred to a "practical limit", his power to manage monetary policy, including fabrication of money into the multiples of trillions.  Congress likewise. Not even limited by whjat they can agree to tax.  No other limits?  Really??

JDN wrote about the GM bailout: "A few suffered in exchange for the greater good.  Hundreds of thousands of jobs were saved especially if you look downstream at suppliers, etc."

I disagree with the result, but let's say he is right about the ends, where was the power to do that authorized in the constitution?
5756  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential: General Motors should have gone through reorganization on: May 04, 2012, 11:24:57 PM
Yes.  In bankruptcy the last thing they do is close the cash register.  The immediate change is that the bankruptcy judge becomes the de facto CEO and CFO deciding what bills get paid in what amounts. They reorganize, not close the town.  They don't come in and put boots on all the tires or shut down all operations.

They might let people go at the top and at the bottom, but jobs are mostly secure at the level where the work gets done.  Products or plants that have no hope of ever paying their own way get dropped, but under what alternative would that not be so.

GM was mainly a healthcare company that also made and sold some cars.

Obama took charge, injected taxpayer money selectively into the industry, meaning unequal treatment under the law, bypassed bankruptcy code and procedure, installed his own management and rearranged the ownership and debt hierarchy according to political expedience instead.

The authority to make such a move is contained in Article ___ of the constitution.

Now they call it the model for what they can do for the rest of the economy in a second term.
5757  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Cognitive Dissonance of His Glibness: Bahr-ruck on: May 04, 2012, 01:32:26 PM
"I adopted a more formal, mature name at 19.  I have a friend who changed names at 30. "

Guessing you started using the more formal name you already had (?) and you knew how to pronounce it?  Did you add or subtract a trill to the r's and change the syllable with the accent?  If so, I wasn't trying to offend, just trying to get to know a guy who invites us to read two autobiographies about his past personal life.

When naming my daughter, your thought crossed my mind, what name sounds good for a little girl and what version of her name will she want as a business professional or as President.  I have tried not to call certain relatives by the -y or -ie version of their first name in front of their colleagues, assuming they prefer the more professional version as surgeons.

I get the part where he went from Barry to Barack and dropped the last name of a step father period of his life gone by.  Maybe the confusion over pronunciation was due to the absence of his father but his mother knew his father and no doubt used his long name a time or two.
" (From the book):   She called him Bahr-ruck, with the accent on the first syllable, and a trill of the r’s. Not Bear-ick, as the Anglophile Kenyans pronounced it, and not Buh-rock, as he would later be called"
5758  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: california on: May 04, 2012, 12:40:36 PM
"My daughter told me this morning that she hopes we will be able to stay in CA."

There are other beaches and plenty of places to keep horses, but it is very hard to pack up and move kids away from their friends depending on their age and other factors.
5759  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential on: May 04, 2012, 12:34:17 PM
I know 2008 is the starting point for all the analysts, but this year has no similarity.

Mitt Romney needs to defeat Barack Obama in the national election.  On issues, competence and direction, he needs to do that by more than a sliver of a point.  If he does, he will win Florida and Ohio.  Indiana by double digits and win North Carolina easily.  The latest Virginia poll shows Obama leading but also shows him running better with independents than he carried them in 2008.  That is not likely in Nov.  Twice as many say we are on the wrong track.

In the scenario in the piece, they say Romney would have to switch those 5 AND get one more.  But if he switches those 5 states, he most certainly will carry New Hampshire and win. Also possible are Iowa, Missouri, Nevada, New Mexico, Wisconsin, Michigan, Colorado, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. 

In a squeaker, who knows, but if Romney wins nationwide by a couple of points or more, the electoral victory will be convincing.  My scenario has him beating Obama by a nearly 2:1 margin in the electoral college.  That is more likely than Obama all the he did in 2008.

5760  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential, workforce % worst in 30 years on: May 04, 2012, 10:49:50 AM
In April, the percentage of adults working or looking for work fell to the lowest level in more than 30 years.

Number of people on food stamps has doubled.  And they were only trying to attack the rich.

Milbank and Maddow called Romney a liar for how he characterized this recovery.  Watching and waiting for a retraction and apology.

End this nightmare.
5761  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / President's early years: Barry, Bahr-ruck with a trill of R's, before Buh-rock on: May 04, 2012, 10:40:23 AM
Stranger than dating a composite girlfriend and writing about a life changing racial incident that never happened is that at 22, he didn't know his name:
John Hinderacker: 

It was striking to me that when Genevieve met Obama he was a 22-year-old college graduate, but hadn’t yet figured out what his name was. In high school, he had generally been called “Barry,” but by this time he apparently was looking for something more formal:

 (From the book):   She called him Bahr-ruck, with the accent on the first syllable, and a trill of the r’s. Not Bear-ick, as the Anglophile Kenyans pronounced it, and not Buh-rock, as he would later be called, but Bahr-ruck. She said that is how he pronounced it himself, at least when talking to her.

JH: I find that very odd. Think how fundamental a part of you your name is: when you were in elementary school, did you have any doubt about what to call yourself? At 22, Obama was still trying out names.
5762  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / (States that california could learn from): Wisconsin Recall Amnesia on: May 04, 2012, 10:29:23 AM
Wisconsin Recall Amnesia   WSJ excerpt:( Subscribe half price at
Why aren't Democrats running against Scott Walker's union reforms?

Remember the Greek-style protests in Madison, the union sit-ins, the lawmakers who fled to Illinois to avoid voting on Scott Walker's collective-bargaining law last year? Now that the recall election of Mr. Walker is in full swing, Big Labor must be wondering where the outrage went.

Since last summer, unions have been throwing millions at defeating the man who reformed collective bargaining for government workers and required union members to pay 5.8% of their paychecks toward pensions and 12.6% of their health insurance premiums, modest contributions compared to the average in private business. As the May 8 Democratic recall primary nears to determine who will run against Mr. Walker on June 5, this should be their rhetorical moment ne plus ultra.

So, let's see. Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, the front-runner, has focused his campaigns on jobs, education, the environment and "making communities safer." One of Mr. Barrett's ads singles out "Walker's War on Women," with nary a mention of collective bargaining. Former Dane County Executive Kathleen Falk is heavily supported by union groups, but even her issues list makes only passing reference to collective bargaining.

No wonder. Since Mr. Walker's reforms went into effect, the doom and gloom scenarios have failed to materialize. Property taxes in the state were down 0.4% in 2011, the first decline since 1998. According to Chief Executive magazine, Wisconsin moved up four more places this year to number 20 in an annual CEO survey of the best states to do business, after jumping 17 spots last year.

The Governor's office has estimated that altogether the reforms have saved Badger State taxpayers more than $1 billion, including $65 million in changes in health-care plans, and some $543 million in local savings documented by media reports. According to the Wisconsin-based MacIver Institute, Mayor Barrett's city of Milwaukee saved $19 million on health-care costs as a direct result of Mr. Walker's reforms. Awkward turtle.

Some of the good news has been in the schools, because districts have been able to avoid teacher layoffs and make ends meet because of flexibility created by the changes. In the Brown Deer school district, savings created by pension and health-care contributions from employees allowed the school to prevent layoffs and save some $800,000 for taxpayers.

In Fond du Lac, school board president Eric Everson says the district saved $4 million as a result of last year's reforms, including $2 million from the changes in employee contributions to their pensions.

Another 52 schools across the state saved an average of $220 per student thanks to the ability to introduce competitive bidding for health insurance, rather than automatically going through WEA Trust, the favored provider of the Wisconsin Education Association Council. If the savings are even half as large as the Governor's surveys indicate, they are still enormous.

All of this is making an impression on Wisconsin voters. According to a Marquette University Law School poll released Wednesday, only 12% of Wisconsin voters say "restoring collective bargaining rights" is their priority, which explains the Democratic decision to fight on other issues.
Mr. Walker's reforms were a modest but necessary response to the state's fiscal problems, and the proof is in the emerging results. The union reaction was so ferocious because the reforms reduced Big Labor's clout over state and local taxpayers and thus its ability to milk taxpayers year after year without challenge.

Democrats and unions will still do all they can to recall Mr. Walker to prove to would-be reformers nationwide that unions can't be crossed. But it speaks volumes that Democrats are running on everything except their real goal—which is to restore the political dominance of government unions.
5763  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: US Foreign Policy: Michael Scheuer, President Paul on: May 04, 2012, 10:09:23 AM
Scheuer and Paul are entitled to their view of non-intervention and voters deserve that as an option to current policy.  The competing view is peace through strength and, as suggested with Chinese dissident, help those when we can around the world gain their liberty.

Should the US have intervened in WWII?  In hindsight, yes (MHO).  In hindsight then, when?  Perhaps sooner, at least for European nations like France watching Hitler 'not threatening their national security'.  We lost nearly a half million Americans as it was, 60 million people killed overall.  If that could have been stopped sooner, it should have been. 

Paul: bin Laden and al Qaida attack because we violate their sovereignty with our presence in their lands.

Some truth, and some not.  He operated from Afghanistan.  Our presence there (prior to embassy bombing, USS Cole, 9/11) was to protect their sovereignty.  He is from Saudi.  In 1990 we moved in and protected their sovereignty.  Many other examples of Americans on the side of Arabs and Muslims that OBL rhetoric (and Ron Paul) ignore.  Kuwait, Bosnia, Kosovo come to mind, along with examples from WWII.  It was Arab Muslims we were trying to free in Iraq.  Not take their oil.  We were blamed for encouraging an uprising previously and leaving them for slaughter.  Saddam is now out; it isn't a 51st state and we pay full price for oil.

They kill because we breathe.  We exist, we are infidels.

They kill because we protect Israel.  To not protect Israel is unthinkable.  MHO.  What other allies do we not stand by?  And how would that increase our security?  Nonsense.  Give them just that one victory/takeover in Israel, wherever and they will stop.  Like Hitler??

Weakness is what Hitler saw in Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland.  Strength is what Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Gorbachev saw in America - in varying degrees over time.  Peace through weakness and non intervention is not as effective as peace through strength.  Just an opinion - backed up in history.

Scheuer: "Nearly alone among Republicans and Democrats, Paul knows... the founders' warning against nonessential intervention in foreigners' affairs would be ruinous for America."

Thomas Jefferson is considered one of the Founders, wrote the Declaration of Independence, served as the first Secretary of State under Washington, second Vice President under Adams and third President of the United States.  Jefferson immediately into his Presidency stood up to the Muslim militants and went to war with them over commercial shipping lanes, analogous to the free flow of oil out of the gulf today, not over genuine U.S. national security interests at our shore as defined by Ron Paul. 

We were wrong to restore Kuwait.  We were wrong to enforce the surrender agreement made by Saddam.  We are wrong to defend Israel and were wrong in Desert Shield to stop Saddam from continuing his march.  Then what?

What struck me about the Libertarians versus conservatives/neocons (and Democrats) during the Iraq war debate was their interest was only in our liberty, not anyone else's.  But a lesson of our liberty is that it was won only with crucial help from overseas.  The founders knew that.

The world is safer with east Europe free and Putin's Russia down to one republic than it would be if Soviet expansionism was allowed to continue.  That was not very long ago and would NOT have been stopped without the credible threat of American interventionism.

Paul says we are attacked by bin Laden because we are in the Middle East, and he says bin Laden attacked us to draw us into the Middle East.  Which is it?  He says the mission was to kill one man.  He does not acknowledge that our mission was the prevention of future attacks.
5764  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Senate races 2012: Elizabeth Running Joke Warren, wanted to make new friends... on: May 04, 2012, 08:53:50 AM
"for most scholarships awarded to Native Americans, there is 1/4 requirement "

That nixed the Warren plan I had for my daughter (blue eyes, red hair) to change her middle name to 'running bear' for her college applicaitions.

I heard some other middle names suggested for Warren: 'wounded economy', 'running joke', 'broken left wing', 'Pinocchio-hontas', 'running joke'.

What past discrimination did she need her leg up from?

Latest story, she did that to make friends.  

It reminds me of former Washington DC  Mayor Marion Barry's outreach program to destitute prostitutes, reaching into his own stash of crack cocaine and sharing, to help the poorest among us.

She deceived to get hired and to get tenure as a Harvard Professor.  She got tenure, then dropped the minority status.  How does one drop their blood content status?

Most Harvard Law professors went to Harvard Law School.  Most of the rest went to other top Ivy League schools.  One, Warren, went to Rutgers, a FINE school, but not equal to Harvard. When Warren was hired, there was a huge push on to hire more minorities.  Blonde, blue eyed minorities?  Is that what Derrick Bell was fighting for?

Victimless crime?  

Like Hillary's dirty commodities trades.  No one was hurt... except the people those profits rightfully belonged to.

No one was hurt by Warren's deception, except for the person who deserved that job.  Except for the students who deserve the best possible professor.  Except for the integrity of the process, compromised.  Except the reputation of the institution, stained.  
5765  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Politics of Health Care on: May 03, 2012, 02:18:38 PM
"The Obama administration is employing an aggressive ground game to build support for its controversial healthcare law that often reaches beyond the Beltway."

True.  But the 'popular' provisions for the most part were on the table in Republican proposals at the time Dems chose to go it alone.

Romney and supporting groups have been quite proficient converting facts into negative ads.  The Pelosi-Reid congress and Obama are all on the ballot this time, exposed for one thing on the process of passing healthcare.
IF ACA is struck down the above bet changes.  Both camps will need to respond with a new proposals within the constraints laid out by the Court.  The President might get a Mulligan - to lock in a new deal with only the popular provisions included, acceptable to maybe a third of House Republicans, passed and signed.  Or he can carry the issue into the election.
5766  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Abortion - 90% of Down Syndrome babies are aborted. Others live well. on: May 03, 2012, 01:40:55 PM
"Judging by Jon, the world would be improved by more people with Down syndrome, who are quite nice, as humans go." (George Will below)  First a quote from the previous posts in the thread with my comment:
"...I doubt they'd look at 4D images of very young fetuses and rule that they were not human."

Besides images, we have the magic of time travel.  We don't have to look at a developing growth inside the womb and wonder what it is or will become.  We already know, it becomes it's own unique, alive, human family member.  We all went through the process, living in the womb, minus the violent ending.  (My own botched-abortion daughter now has over 740 facebook friends, was highly recruited for sports and music and is heading off to one of the top local small colleges on an academic merit scholarship, from a blob once scheduled for 'termination'.)  It is NOT some mystery or controversy that what you see in the image is a developing family member in need of your protection.

Linking from Parent Issues:
George Will column honoring the 40th birthday of Jon Will.

Will: "This era has coincided, not just coincidentally, with the full, garish flowering of the baby boomers’ vast sense of entitlement, which encompasses an entitlement to exemption from nature’s mishaps, and to a perfect baby. So today science enables what the ethos ratifies, the choice of killing children with Down syndrome before birth. That is what happens to 90 percent of those whose parents receive a Down syndrome diagnosis through prenatal testing.

    Which is unfortunate, and not just for them. Judging by Jon, the world would be improved by more people with Down syndrome, who are quite nice, as humans go. It is said we are all born brave, trusting and greedy, and remain greedy. People with Down syndrome must remain brave in order to navigate society’s complexities. They have no choice but to be trusting because, with limited understanding, and limited abilities to communicate misunderstanding, they, like Blanche DuBois in “A Streetcar Named Desire,” always depend on the kindness of strangers. Judging by Jon’s experience, they almost always receive it.
5767  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Parenting Issues on: May 03, 2012, 01:09:33 PM
"This would also be a nice fit in the abortion thread."

My thought exactly.  But if I put it there you would have sent me here.   grin

Of course abortion is a parent issue too as the kid has no say in the matter...
These kids often grow up to work jobs that offset only part of their cost.  Unfortunately that is far better than a whole lot of no-excuse, able mind and body Americans.
5768  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Bin Laden dead - attacks on fellow Muslims on: May 03, 2012, 12:57:49 PM
Thanks BD.  The writings of this character help to tell a historic story.

The death of bin Laden was important and symbolic, but it was the death of his ability to operate freely and command effectively a worldwide terror group that was crucial.

"bin Laden was frustrated with the groups’ attacks on fellow Muslims"

This was a confused man.

IIRC the leaders were laughing in their video at the fate of the suicide volunteers who did not know their ending as they prepared for their mission.  A suicide bomber IS an attack on a fellow Muslim no matter how many infidels it kills.  I wonder how many Muslims died in his attacks and their aftermath with the wars he intentionally set off:
"...28 Muslims who died in the twin towers of the World Trade Center, in addition to three Muslims who were among the passengers on two hijacked planes; one of them crashed on a Pennsylvania field before it reached its target, and the second one hit the Pentagon.  The Muslims victims in the 9/11 attacks were as follows: six from Pakistan, six from Bangladesh, four from Guiana, two from Sri Lanka, two from Gambia, two from Ivory Coast, and 1 from Yemen, one from Iran, one from Ethiopia, one from Turkey, one from Trinidad and Tobago, one from Burma, one from Albania, one from Greece and one from India, representing 1.07 percent of the total number of victims of the Sept. 11 attacks, which is the same percentage of Muslims in the United States."
In the aftermath of 'bin Laden Dead' it would be nice if the regret of attacks against fellow Muslims was what a billion Muslims take forward from this global nightmare.  Setting off 'necessary' wars in Muslim lands is not consistent with regretting attacks against fellow Muslims.  Of course he meant Muslim on Muslim attacks, but the result of his Muslim on 'infidel' attacks was the same.
5769  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Parenting Issues - Living (well) with Down Syndrome on: May 03, 2012, 12:02:05 PM
George Will: ..."the world would be improved by more people with Down syndrome, who are quite nice, as humans go."
Another story that doesn't fit neatly into existing threads, but Down Syndrome becomes the life of the parents as well as of the child.  90% of Down's kids are now aborted; the remaining parents bond quite strongly together, living with a common challenge and joy.  In our (extended) family, a beautiful Down Syndrome girl is for sure our favorite relative.  She is the one always most excited to see you, most excited about meals, dessert, presents, birthdays, even naps.  I call it 'up syndrome'.  Anything more about her needs to go in the gratitude thread.

Anyway, George Will has a column about his oldest son Jon Will, now turning 40.  His love and pride shines through the story. 
----  Read George Will’s Touching Column on Raising His Now-40-Year-Old Son With Down Syndrome  "Jon Will’s gift"  by George Will

"The day after Jon was born, a doctor told Jon’s parents that the first question for them was whether they intended to take Jon home from the hospital. Nonplussed, they said they thought that is what parents do with newborns."   (Subtly written in the third person for perhaps the most powerful moment in their life.)
"This era has coincided, not just coincidentally, with the full, garish flowering of the baby boomers’ vast sense of entitlement, which encompasses an entitlement to exemption from nature’s mishaps, and to a perfect baby. So today science enables what the ethos ratifies, the choice of killing children with Down syndrome before birth. That is what happens to 90 percent of those whose parents receive a Down syndrome diagnosis through prenatal testing.

    Which is unfortunate, and not just for them. Judging by Jon, the world would be improved by more people with Down syndrome, who are quite nice, as humans go. It is said we are all born brave, trusting and greedy, and remain greedy. People with Down syndrome must remain brave in order to navigate society’s complexities. They have no choice but to be trusting because, with limited understanding, and limited abilities to communicate misunderstanding, they, like Blanche DuBois in “A Streetcar Named Desire,” always depend on the kindness of strangers. Judging by Jon’s experience, they almost always receive it.

Will’s column concludes on a hopeful note, noting that Jon will spend his 40th birthday at a baseball game, where he is, apparently, at his happiest."

5770  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Freedom of religion... on: May 03, 2012, 11:22:51 AM
"Perhaps we should merge the two threads?"  - Yes.  Many including me think of the First Amendment as freedom of speech but of course it is much more than that:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The follow up to Barton's book about Jefferson can go in the Founders thread, but this interview was all about Stewart trying to challenge the author's personal views on free exercise of religion.
5771  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Newt Gingrich, almost the next Reagan on: May 03, 2012, 11:14:47 AM
For quite a long time the country has searched and given up searching for the next Reagan, who was not perfect either.  Newt was something like Reagan but with important differences.  Different levels of self discipline and consistency were part of it. 

With Reagan it was all about America, not Ronald Reagan, always.  All about freedom, never about him.  Reagan did not get bored with chasing the same 3 things every day, limited government, a strong America standing up to communism and a vibrant, free economy.

Newt's successes were that way, his best speeches, his best debates, his best policy ideas, and in the organizations he set up to chart a new path for America.  In other ways it was apparent that Newt was about Newt. 

Much of his past demise as Speaker was unfair.  They filed charges against him on everything and when he settled what he couldn't afford to fight, he was called guilty.  A speaker doesn't have the power of the Presidency to communicate back when his perfectly sensible words (a bureaucratic agency that would 'whither on the vine') were clipped and used wrongly against him.  He had nothing like the Edwards guilt in his scandals but he had allowed that vulnerability too, with secrets he needed to keep and a woman with 'good tastes' to placate.  Thousands in jewelry and a trip to the Mediterranean when your focus is the highest office is not focus or discipline. 

Reagan by the end of 8 years also had problems, worn down by the process, the opposition, the media and perhaps his impending illness.  His administration barely survived Iran-Contra, but Iran-contra was about doing everything possible to fight communism, nothing about personal advancement or gratification.  What brought Reagan back to prominence in history was that his policies were largely still in place - and they worked.  Growth was robust, he got his successor elected on a promise to continue the policies, revenues doubled in a decade, the wall came down and so did the Soviet empire.  He had won 49 states in reelection but the real results were not apparent until he was gone.

Had Gingrich survived 8-10 years of Speakership and kept focus and discipline on the core principles underlying the 'Contract', being elected President would not have been a stretch.

Newt IMO should have settled much earlier for a behind the scenes role with someone else on the stage, but that is not who he is.  I wish him all the best in private life.
5772  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Young Barack Obama in Vanity Fair on: May 03, 2012, 12:05:24 AM
One thing said about Barack Obama is that there was almost no record of him, no ex-girlfriends, no college roommates, no writings, no grades etc. meaning no vetting or that we don't really know who he is.  Part of that is solved with a new book coming out by a Wash Post reporter.  Vanity Fair has a 6 page excerpt:

I take from it two things, he is more real and genuine for having some past revealed and some relationships.  Second is that my belief that he did not write his own books was reinforced.

"In Dreams from My Father, Obama chose to emphasize a racial chasm that unavoidably separated him from the woman he described as his New York girlfriend.

    One night I took her to see a new play by a black playwright. It was a very angry play, but very funny. Typical black American humor. The audience was mostly black, and everybody was laughing and clapping and hollering like they were in church. After the play was over, my friend started talking about why black people were so angry all the time. I said it was a matter of remembering—nobody asks why Jews remember the Holocaust, I think I said—and she said that’s different, and I said it wasn’t, and she said that anger was just a dead end. We had a big fight, right in front of the theater. When we got back to the car she started crying. She couldn’t be black, she said. She would if she could, but she couldn’t. She could only be herself, and wasn’t that enough.None of this happened with Genevieve. She remembered going to the theater only once with Barack, and it was not to see a work by a black playwright.

“It is an incident that happened,” Maraniss quotes Obama as saying in a decades-later interview, but it wasn’t with her.

“That was not her,” he said. “That was an example of compression I was very sensitive in my book not to write about my girlfriends, partly out of respect for them. So that was a consideration. I thought that [the anecdote involving the reaction of a white girlfriend to the angry black play] was a useful theme to make about sort of the interactions that I had in the relationships with white girlfriends. And so, that occupies, what, two paragraphs in the book? My attitude was it would be dishonest for me not to touch on that at all … so that was an example of sort of editorially how do I figure that out?” "

They found the girl he went to the play with and one other girlfriend andjournals and letters.  The incident did not happen.  It was, in my conjecture only, a stereotypical race relations discussion between sort of black man and white woman, fictionalized by someone else.  The composite story is interesting but there have been other indicators that his notes were the take off point for whomever wrote the rest.
5773  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Freedom of religion, David Barton, author ofThe Jefferson Lies on Jon Stewart on: May 02, 2012, 11:42:56 PM
I started to post this on Founding Fathers while listening but they never in this interview really got to Jefferson.  So let's call it Freedom of religion.

I heard David Barton on a re-run of Glenn Beck radio over the weekend.  One thing he said was that Jefferson's Koran had some writing inside the front cover and I wanted to know what it was.  Didn't find out.  Searching, 'The Blaze' said this interview was the number one google search of the day.

Keith Ellison took his oath on the Koran and said it was Thomas Jefferson's Koran, thus making it okay?  But as I suspected, Jefferson had the first English translation of the Koran to read in order to understand the enemy he would go to war against that killing and enslaving Americans (and people from other non-Islamic countries) that would pass through the Straits of Gibraltar.

Barton is a conservative Christian historian involved with 9 Supreme Court cases.  Stewart is a liberal Jew, a comedian, trying partly to do a Charlie Rose style interview and partly to debate him.  Odd interview/debate but interesting.

A point Barton makes is that Freedom of Speech should not exclude religious speech.  Stewart can't comprehend how if America is 84% Christian that they could ever think they get unfair treatment.

On the radio, Barton defended Jefferson against quite a few myths that are out there about him; that is the core of the book.  Buy the book and tell us the rest:
5774  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Afpakia:IBD - One word missing in President's end of the war speech on: May 02, 2012, 02:49:49 PM
"Better in the Afpakia thread , , ,"   Okay, so moved.
I had to read to the end of a good piece, critical of the President, to find out the word missing was "victory".
"the document he signed with Afghan President Hamid Karzai is a meaningless basic agreement to talk later about forging a real agreement."
"Tuesday night's speech from Kabul emphasizing withdrawal was his first substantive statement in eleven (11!) months. Nothing to the nation from its leader on an ongoing war for nearly one year, while finding time for 124 campaign fundraiser speeches, more golf games and vacations."
"One little-noticed provision of the agreement Obama and Karzai signed Tuesday, however, is that American troops will remain in Afghanistan for not one, not two, not even three more years. They will be there for 12 more years, until 2024, helping. So, John McCain was correct after all about lengthy U.S. troop stationings."

(More plus full text of the President's remarks at the link.)
5775  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / re. reporting of war deaths in Afghanistan on: May 02, 2012, 02:43:31 PM
'This week with David Brinkley George Stephanopolous' ABC Sunday mornings also has kept their feature of naming and honoring the dead.  A credit to them.

I don't watch evening network news but it would be interesting to know if there is consistency.  My selective memory recalls it being the lead if not only story every day from Iraq under Bush until they finally had a bad economy to crow about.
5776  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential on: May 02, 2012, 01:28:54 PM
"Some outlets don't know what the hell they are talking about."

As lamented on Media Issues, I very much regret the need to get so much of my information from biased right wing sources, and I very much appreciate that this format makes it possible to get misinformation cleared up very quickly.

Your distinction of not staying a second term versus that I wrote 'leaving' is quite valid.  Most cabinet members I'm sure serve no more than one term.  It does not mean a rift or anything like that.  She has been 100% loyal in her position.  More dedicated to her job than her boss has been to his. (MHO)

It's just that with the Clintons there is some history that precedes her service in this capacity.
5777  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential on: May 02, 2012, 12:45:06 PM
"Who says Sec. State Clinton is leaving the administration?"
Hillary Clinton Would Not Serve Second Term In Obama Cabinet

I did not mean to say sooner than that, just that she won't be staying on.

"She can't go to the convention, because the SecSt is meant to be a non-partisan position, and it is inappropriate to attend."

That is a good point of clarification.  Some outlets ran it to mean more than that.

The idea that foreign policy is meant to be non-partisan has a sad element of humor and nostalgia to it, while her husband stars in a highly partisan campaign commercial - about foreign policy - running right now. 

5778  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Media Issues: MSNBC mixing 'we' and 'White House' on: May 02, 2012, 11:39:48 AM

Innocent slip up? Andrea Mitchell, MSNBC:

"What do you think of the Republican criticism that we are politicizing it -- that the White House, I should say, is politicizing it?"
Worried about my previous commingling, is she news or opinion?  wink
5779  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / The fight for the US Senate: On the Reservation with Pocahontas Warren on: May 02, 2012, 11:30:43 AM
There is an upside down race in the fight for the US Senate, the so-called Ted Kennedy seat is a left state seat held by a Republican (Scott Brown), so it is an obvious pick up opportunity for the Dems to offset likely losses elsewhere.

Elizabeth Warren is the perfect candidate, an articulate leftist and Harvard professor.  She should be able to mail it in and win.  But...

This accomplished white woman, it turns out, needed to compensate for a past of discrimination against her for her 1/32nd Cherokee Indian heritage.  Who knew?

Ripped in a local paper:

White and wrong: On the reservation with Elizabeth Warren
By Howie Carr  Wednesday, May 2, 2012

We all know about “undocumented workers.” Now we have Elizabeth Warren, the undocumented Indian.

Funny thing, I think Ted Williams was one-fourth Mexican. He was white. Johnny Bench is one-eighth Indian. I always think of him as white. And then there’s Pochantas Warren, the blue-eyed, one-32nd Cherokee (or so we’re told) who went from the Southwest Conference to the Ivy League over the course of a decade in which she was claiming to be a “minority professor.”

But once she’d parlayed the racial-spoils racket all the way to a tenured position at Harvard Law, she decided to ... pass, as they used to say in the old South. Once she’d reached the pinnacle of her trade, she ditched the fake-Indian routine. Maybe White Eyes Warren saw the smoke signals and figured out that someone was going to call her out on her ancestry. She was right.

Still, all’s well that ends well. She has her $1.7 million wigwam in Cambridge. Greedy Wall Street lawyers slurp top-shelf firewater at her $1,000-a-head Manhattan fundraisers. Maybe someday she’ll even smokum peace pipe with Tim Geithner.  (more at the link)

5780  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / North Korea: The Day After (the regime falls) - Bill Keller, NYT on: May 02, 2012, 10:53:34 AM
I enjoyed this opinion piece by former NY Times Editor Bill Keller.  I like things that indicate the end of something unimaginably evil is either possible or inevitable, like the PRC and the DPRK.  He is saying we should be preparing now for the aftermath of the regime.    Excerpt:

"The big question we should be asking is: What about the Day After? If the regime’s days are numbered, the end is likely to be messier than anything we’ve seen in the Arab Spring. Why aren’t we sitting down with the Chinese, South Koreans, Japanese and Russians and making a plan to prevent nuclear material from being sold to the Russian mafia or the Chinese triads; to keep some panicky general from incinerating Seoul (minutes away as the artillery shell flies); to dissuade China or Russia from sending in troops to take advantage; to prevent Nuremberg-minded prison commandants from bulldozing the evidence into mass graves; to fend off an even more monumental human calamity than the famine of the mid-90s? Then, how do we reunify Korea without bankrupting the South? "
5781  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Afpakia: Afghanistan-Pakistan on: May 02, 2012, 10:00:00 AM
Both the NYT and the USA Today have fallen troops section of their front section.  That isn't silence or ignoring. ... 

This is an interesting point and a credit to those publications missed by those of us who read around on the internet.
5782  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential, I killed OBL and you didn't on: May 02, 2012, 09:57:26 AM
I agree that there are going to be mistakes in the heat of battle.  But this one is a doozy.  It is a not an ad hoc remark or hot mic moment but a highly planned out ad, timed with the anniversary of the greatest operation in recent times, utilizing the celebrity status of a former President, and orchestrated with the followup from the Vice President.  The powers of incumbency and the powers of having a huge campaign war chest ran amok.  Wrong to spike the football came right from the President, not the opponents, and it had to do with not inciting more attacks on Americans, not politics at home.

Of course Obama deserves credit for the OBL kill, just like Nixon does for approving the landing of the first man on the moon.  

The campaign is pairing the magnificent performance of our special operations with a gotcha attempt on Romney quote, vague and clipped, where he said he wouldn't move heaven and earth to get one man.

The Romney point in 2008 I think was to remember there are other metrics in the war on terror of how we are doing like not having our cities and planes blown up  He was saying don't publicly build up the international importance of getting this one man.  Not saying don't kill him.

There were too many "I"s in the original Obama announcement.  He didn't get it that it was enough that he was the one got to make the amazing announcement to the country and to the world.  The political bump was there but relatively small and short lived.  If another 3 week bump was possible, they needed it in Oct, not April.

Soon they will be saying Romney's foreign intervention policies will be too aggressive and dangerous.  He is too willing to go after targets like this and prosecute a war on terror when we should be pulling away.  (The Mission was Accomplished.)

President Obama's foreign policy record is cheapened by the bravato.  Republicans will certainly criticize his record and he could have said in rebuttal, 'hey, I got us out of 2 wars and killed Osama bin Laden'.  Instead it looks more like two surrenders and a no-brainer.

This attack made it through the highest levels of the campaign, which means the idea came from someone with so much pull that no adviser could say it was ill-advised.  Most likely came fromthe President himself, or the first lady?

The other explanation is that the idea was pushed forward by Bill Clinton, a political genius, but in intentional sabotage.  Funny how he is right in the middle of it - while his wife is leaving the administration, not going to the convention.  No one is that cynical.   wink

5783  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential, spiking the football "despicable" on: May 01, 2012, 05:42:09 PM
re. Seals Slam Obama:  Why, is there something wrong with "spiking the football"?

Obama managed to piss off David Brooks and Arrianna Huffington, his own allies, with his only accomplishment.

Brooks: "Last week, the Obama campaign ran a cheap-shot ad on the death of Osama bin Laden. Part of the ad was Bill Clinton effectively talking about the decision to kill the terrorist. But, in the middle, the Obama people threw in a low-minded attack on Romney. The slam made Clinton look small, it made Obama look small, it turned a moment of genuine accomplishment into a political ploy..."

Huffingtom:  "this line of attack -- that a combination of an opponent's lack of patriotism and low machismo makes him a national security threat, and therefore unelectable -- is particularly "despicable" ..."

5784  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Economics: The Interconnected Economy on: May 01, 2012, 03:19:35 PM
This statement of Crafty's in the Calif thread makes a great point that has widespread implications in economics:

"...the high unemployment rate and the closely related decline in discretionary income with its attendant decline in discretionary spending-- which unfortunately for me is how most wives see martial arts-- are really hitting the portion of my income based upon local spending"

We keep trying to target groups for taxation, only the rich, only the business owner, only the other business owner.  But you cannot tax or punish the other guy ("crucify" in the case of coal companies) without taxing yourself or your own family.

In this particular case, let's say we design a big tax increase so carefully that it hits every business except martial arts schools.  Up goes unemployment, down goes take home and discretionary income and instantly the martial arts school is taxed in lost income.

It isn't trickle down; it is interconnectedness.  Tax the business owner, the employees suffer.  Tax the store, the customer gets hit.  Tax the energy used in manufacturing driving costs up, factory jobs go overseas.

If we spend to excess and then don't tax anyone to pay for it, just borrow and print money, everyone is still hurt by the declining value of everything else in diluted dollars.
5785  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Fed, Monetary Policy, Inflation, US Dollar & other currencies, & Gold/Silver on: May 01, 2012, 11:31:14 AM

Two thought leaders, from both extremes. 

Ron Paul is right about inflation being theft but a little off and confusing to me on monetary and Fed issues.  He says in his book 'End the Fed' if you read it closely he does not say end the Fed but end the monopoly of the Fed.  Okay, but IMHO:  We just need a better managed, sole function Fed, manage our currency to protect its value; our currency value should not be manipulated to compensate for policy errors elsewhere in government.  We don't need a full return to gold convertibility, but to track a 'basket of goods and commodities' that includes gold.  We already track it we just don't act on the information.

Krugman doesn't say we are in a recession, he says we are in a depression.  We should expand the monetary base and deficit spending far far more than we are right now in his view.

Interesting disagreement over their citing of Milton Friedman on the Fed's role in the (other) Great Depression.
5786  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: california on: May 01, 2012, 10:41:19 AM
Without a doubt California is a beautiful place and JDN's pride is a positive thing.  It is more than a coastline but plenty of the rest is beautiful and abundant too.  Plenty of human assets with great universities and historically great businesses.  As CCP suggests, the point of the criticism is that it is a very badly governed place and more than a warning to the rest of us.  So bad that a moderate Republican couldn't turn the corner, nor now can a moderate Dem.  Like CCP says, the spending is so large and out of control there is no faucet any more for lawmakers to even slow the spending.

Personally I don't understand how leaving future voters and taxpayers to pay legacy costs of past workers work in  the form of pensions and healthcare passes any test of consent of the governed.

The migration out is huge phenomenon.  JDN argues that the successful are the ones staying.  I don't believe that but if true, look at what problems they are exporting to the other 49.

Victor Davis Hanson often writes interesting personal stories from living on a family farm in one of California's poorest areas in the country to commuting to Stanford in one of the world's richest areas.  VDH blog:
This excerpt is from a post about Europe:

Munich and Athens in California  February 12th, 2012

"I drive each week from one of the poorest areas in the U.S. to one of the wealthiest. A man from Mars after walking in west Selma and then downtown Menlo Park could tell you exactly why the gap is not three hours, but more like three centuries. One-quarter mile from my house about 30 people live in wrecked trailers behind a farmhouse with an assortment of barn animals wandering about the premises; about 100 yards from my tiny studio apartment in Palo Alto, Facebook zillionaires bid upwards of $2 million for a tiny house worth about $70,000 in Fresno.

But both these extremes at least share common laws — in theory a common language, the same constitution, and an identical popular culture. In contrast, when I go from the Peloponnese to the Rhine I see about the same vast economic divide, but one in which different histories, languages, cultures, and ethnicities acerbate — not mitigate — the gulf. In fact, if I were to dream up a way of having central, rural California go to war against the wealthier coastal strip from San Diego to San Francisco, I would simply have them first craft a EU-like arrangement for a few years."
5787  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: california on: May 01, 2012, 12:20:34 AM
Complete denial of a problem?

Didn't they use to be the 5th largest economy in the world?  1984-1985.  Now smaller than Italy.

Amassing a small fortune.  By starting with a large one.
5788  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential - wasting time on: May 01, 2012, 12:06:24 AM
"In my fraternity house in college I got what was called the "silver spoon award". It was a joke; it's given to the poorest pledge; that was me. "

Silver spoon funny for poor kid but you weren't joking and maybe we aregetting at the root of your hate.  Yours was an attack on the person and you keep defending it and expanding on it.  I gave you synonyms to fix that, he was raised to be successful.

"As for housing cost, Romney did pay more for his house in one year than he paid for taxes.  Further, he got a mortgage deduction for his $20million dollar beach house."

You say rich beyond comprehension, successful to a fault, and in the next sentence say he had to borrow to buy his second house.  No he didn't.  You say it 3 times and don't link it.  Rich people don't need to borrow, they lend. There is no issue about Romney taking inappropriate deductions.  It is still just an attack against the person, the Latin that  is ad hominem.  Be civil.  Stop doing that.  

You miss the main point anyway.  If he pays 20 million for bricklaying, electrical, plumbing, roof installations, cabinet work, counters, custom closets, nice windows put in etc.  WHO BENEFITED FROM THAT??  He is out the $20 million though got his money's worth so he is about even, but the bricklayers, framers, sheetrockers, cabinet makers, the guys that paint the lines on the tennis court, etc. - collectively they are up about $20 million, getting their bills paid and hopefully putting their kids through college.  While the best perhaps were busy on this house other workers won bids on other projects etc and the other businesses in the area all benefit fromthe chain of events coming from a major new construction site.  What is the downside of this?  For all you obsess on it you just won't say what is wrong.  What is wrong with good, healthy, private, consensual, adult, hard earned economic activity to liberals?  What is wrong with having a beach house?  Using it or having the freedom to not use it.  I just don't see the problem and you won't say what it is.  Because if HE owns it someone else doesn't?  So no one should??  You just keep ripping it like we all already know how bad it is.  But I don't hate rich people or resent successful people.  We don't all attack and divide.  Our side doesn't hate poor people, we want them to have the opportunity to earn whatever they want.  We want people set financially or at least able to pay their bills.  Rich means one more person we don't have to support.  It's not filthy.

Who was it, I forget, who said "don't covet your neighbor's house"?

The President's job is not to individually counsel food stamp recipients on how to pay electric bills without money and to know from experience how it feels.  He or she IMO is supposed to (among other things) set with congress our public policies so that every American has the best conditions conducive to long term economic growth and prosperity that are possible.  It was the 'liberal' party that used to say "a rising tide lifts all boats".   Anybody remember THAT?  

Finally, yes, be civil.  Parroting hate speech is hate speech.  Don't do it.  Do you think the us vs. them, divide-America line is okay because everyone you know is doing it?  In a we-the-people country, somebody is going to call you on it.
5789  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Economics on: April 30, 2012, 06:08:40 PM
GM,  It would be interesting to get a version of that clock that shows the debt since Democrats took power in Nov 2006 / Jan 2007 - and the 'growth' we bought with it.  The new Senators that year are up for discipline (re-election) this year.  The majority of women in 2010 already voted the first woman Speaker.   The de facto leaders of the Senate then and Executive Branch now, Obama, Hillary and even Biden are also up for second thoughts by the electorate.

All they can say it was worse before they "got here' and point to when they instead controlled congress.
5790  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential on: April 30, 2012, 05:52:12 PM
The examples I gave were of hate speech.  The qualifier meaning 'lots of' in front of rich is not "filthy".  Silver spoon is phrase about hatred, not about utensils.  That you would hate and vote for him shows contradiction and nonsense.  Given the disapprovals of both sides of congress, maybe hate is what people want to feel. If it informs you about how he will govern, inform us what you found out instead of the same repetition.

Housing cost is a per month or per year measure.  You compare a one time investment that likely does not go down in value at all and say it is larger than a per year tax expense?  You are not that stupid...  GM, is he?

The feeling I and others hold toward President Obama is about how he IS governing us.  I hate it, not him.  I wish him private sector success, just like George McGovern who turned on a dime after he started in business and fought the red tape.  Obama's association with these radicals told us in advance how he would govern.  These terrorists were not free market advocates. (  The words you have expressed toward Gov. Romney are about ad hominem hatred - against the person.  Did you oppose his health care plan, his tax plan more moderate than Huntsman's, his moderate view on climate change?  No.  His person.

Does one have to be poor to understand growth economics?

A different view is that to study poverty is to study nothing because poverty is the absence of something, not a quality in itself.  Like studying particles in a vacuum.  They aren't there.  I don't want someone experience at being destitute.  I want someone who knows the way out.  If one accepts that wealth is good, one can study the conditions conducive to it growing and spreading it, not taking it.  You in at least one side of your posting do not admit or accept that wealth is good.  Without that acceptance, growing it or spreading it is of no value.

When I meet successful people I am overwhelmed with curiosity, not envy or hatred.  The amount of wealth alone tells me NOTHING about how they will govern.  Especially true for Romney for the reasons you suggest.  He sort of grew up wealthy but his family started with nothing, made most of it after he grew up and he made his fortune on his own with of course the advantage that he was close kin with an important man.

Billy Carter beer brand, Neal Bush of Siverado S&L, Hugh Rodham of pardon fame, and Obama's aunt on food stamps all also came out of close kin with important people.  It is an advantage of great potential but not determinative of your future.  Nor any indication of how you will govern.

Romney is now the blank slate that Obama once was.  Paint what you like on his canvas.  Obama is inescapably tied to his record.  He painted all over our canvas and people are finding it ugly.
5791  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential - Keep looking for shiny objects, here! No, over here! on: April 30, 2012, 09:40:28 AM
Don't look at the President's presidency, his policies, his results.

The thing about your hatred of Romney, JDN, "filthy rich" "OPULENT" "silver spoon" etc is that it sheds light only on you; it tells us nothing about him or how he would govern.  

Why would a loving family man want to be rich?  So he is beholden to no one, so he can take care of his own, without anyone else's help, so he can go on to other activities etc.  You fail to show a negative in it and amazingly keep saying "so what" to your own arguments!

Did Mitt Romney spend more on housing than he paid to the government?  Did he spend more on housing than he gave to charity? Did he spend more on housing than the federal affordability guideline of spending roughly one third of your income on housing?  No. No. And no.  He spent more than you - that's about all we know.  You link a picture but I've seen nice places before; I enjoy knowing successful people.  Is 6 hours on his bed better than the 8-9 hours of deep sleep I got last night.  I doubt it.  He doesn't have to fix his own toilet flapper if it leaks but neither do my tenants.  It looks like he gives his neighbors greenery and privacy out their door and windows.  Unless he plays music too loud, there is not much at the Romney compound to complain about. How many workmen made how many dollars building his homes, to help pay for their own?  He has a tennis court but also he has a wife, 5 sons, 5 daughter in laws and 15 grandchildren. I would have gone with at least 2 courts in his situation but it looks like they preferred to keep the trees and were a little cramped for space.

What kind of house SHOULD he live in?  Should he have stopped making money when he had enough.  Actually he is one of the few who did; that did not slow the hatred.  When he is on the west coast, should he have to stay in hotels, cut rate  hotels,  if he can afford his own place?  Should we have laws restricting second home ownership or second home size, further killing that market?  If so, who does that hurt most?  Or is this NOT about POLICY in the first place?

When we figure out what JDN really hates, maybe we could have a thread about that and stop muddling up the important political threads.  There's going to be an important election this year.  Someone should make a coherent argument why we should stay on the same course or else we should change course.

FIVE tries at the martian joke and still no one knows what JDN is talking about.  Someone other than me should tell JDN we don't hear those voices.
"Whatever his past, Ayers is now a respected member of the Chicago intelligentsia ...  solid academic credentials and "passion for social justice.""

Whatever his past, you wanted Osama bin Laden dead or in the Islamist intelligentsia?
"Barack was very well known in Chicago, and a highly respected legislator."

His signature piece was the right to kill babies AFTER they pop out the womb alive.  Or as they say on the left: a  "passion for social justice."
What you JDN don't see or won't admit here is that we have been moving America in their direction every minute since the election of Nov 2006 and everything has gotten worse.  It got worse for the rich.  It got worse for the poor.  It got worse for working people and it got worse for people looking for work.  The prospects for the future from the unborn to the college seniors got worse.  We all share ONE economy.  It is not us vs. them; it is "we the people".  It is policies for growth versus policies for decline.  But saying they offer policies for decline doesn't sell, so again and again it is 'hey, look at this other shiny object - over here!'  Romney's dog, Romney's wife, Romney's religion, Romney's house, Romney's other house.  

With a slight correction in the CPI calculation, we are at 0.00% growth, equal to John Belushi's seven year GPA in Animal House.  0% growth at the bottom of the cliff AFTER FIVE TRILLION IN NEW DEBT.  Obama's previous budget failed in a Dem Senate by a vote of 99-0.  They asked his latest budget chief when this new budget balanced.  He stuttered like seeing Obama trying to explain to the rest of America why he liked Rev. Wright's sermons.  The answer for our economy repairing under their policies is never.  

We grow out of this after we vote out these losers and their policies.  Not one minute sooner.
5792  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential on: April 29, 2012, 03:52:38 PM
Yes, blah, blah.  What is the functional difference between flushing a million dollar toilet and a zillion dollar one.  A tenfold difference, lol. Even Obama defines both lifestyles as the 1%, labeled and categorized, whereas I would call each of them the family home, unjudged by me except for the gangster origins of the one.  Still no comparison to Kerry, Edwards, Gore or the Kennedys because that is different.  Still even a preference for the gangster money versus the earned. 

There is nothing to argue about in terms of how to move the country forward when we share no values or desired direction for the country in common.  We are running against the if-I-wanted-America-to-fail braintrust and they are a clever bunch.
5793  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential on: April 29, 2012, 02:29:51 PM
He was referring to Romney's opulent houses.

Compared to recent wealthy Dem candidates (Heinz-Kerry) for the same office?  No.  Does his opponent have a frugal or median style abode in contrast?  No. (million and a half plus a gangster yard)  Opulent?  Yes.  Our nation was opulent - - - prior to Nov 2006.
5794  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential on: April 29, 2012, 01:34:03 PM
as Mitt Romney would call it, a fixer-upper.

And Obama's terrorist friend Bill Ayers would call it a target.

Very funny, if it wasn't true.  JDN doesn't care about ties to known, unrepentant terrorists?  Because Ayers and the Mrs who kicked off Obama's career won't blow it up with their buddies in there.

It is the government in Washington, not the 5-star hotel, that Gov. Romney is calling a fixer-upper.

The comedian's point was that it is a fancy place. So who paid for the event so closely following the lavish government partying scandals?  
5795  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential on: April 29, 2012, 09:58:18 AM
Kimmel continued: 'there's a term for Presidents like that... though probably not two terms.'
5796  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / 2012 Presidential - Jimmy Kimmel at the White House correspondents dinner on: April 29, 2012, 09:27:14 AM
Mr. President, Do you remember when the country rallied around you in hope of a better tomorrow?  That was hilarious.  It's hard to be funny with the President of the United States right next to you, but somehow, day after day, Joe Biden manages to do it.
5797  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Political Economics - Doom and Gloom on: April 28, 2012, 11:27:16 PM
From GM's post:

The economy bottomed out in Q2 of 2009, before a single Obama policy had taken hold.

The economy has been sputtering along that natural bottom ever since.

It now takes $2.52 in new debt to raise GDP by $1.00

Obama still has a goal of tying Romney to Bush, but the only thing missing above is that it was Obama not Romney who along with his Sec of State were the de facto leaders of the United States Senate during the exact period when the wheels fell off.  He did not inherit a bad economy in Jan 2009; he had a hand in causing it.

Wall Street Journal today:

The Growth Deficit
The slowest recovery plods along.

The weakest recovery on record continued in 2012's first quarter, with the Commerce Department's Friday report of 2.2% growth.

    - Whoops!  Slowest recovery, weakest recovery, worst recovery - That claim was the lead example of both Dana Milbank of the Washington Post and Rachel Maddow of NBC as to why Mitt Romney is such a LIAR; they were saying (a month ago) that was not true - yet.  Either we have more data now or else Mitt has a pretty big co-conspirator in this lie.
5798  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Supply and its affect on prices, oil vs. gas on: April 28, 2012, 05:00:17 PM
The US has increased oil production 15% since 2009, from private sources on private lands, not because the feds opening up drilling leases and permits.  The high price makes more types and grades of oil economic to produce, like shale oil from the Bakken formation.  

Meanwhile, the price of oil did not go down.  Why not?

Oil is transportable.  The market for oil is global.  The US produces 11% of the world's oil.  A 15% increase is only a 1.5% global increase while all other factors were not held constant.  

Natural gas is less transportable.  The market therefore is local.  With natural gas, the dramatic increases in production resulted in noticeable decrease in price.  The law of supply and demand in alive and well.

Do the laws of supply and demand apply to oil?  Yes.  But a 1% increase is like having a dollar and gaining a penny while your demands are changing.  The question is not if increased production will lower prices, but how much increased production will it take to make a positive economic impact.  To start with, we should be striving to double our production and then increase it some more until the US produces as much it consumes, and more.  Then the US would still be only having a neutral effect on world oil prices.  Meanwhile we could be shifting a good portion of our transportation usage over to cheaper and cleaner burning natural gas, further alleviating the demand for oil.

As they said 20 years ago opposing ANWR and the like, that would take 10 years.  Yes it would have.  The results would come faster today.  But world market price is set in futures markets that are based on risks, trends and expectations.  As the effort to double production becomes apparent, the impact on the oil futures market would come much sooner.
5799  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Most Disturbing Quotes From Members Of The Obama Administration on: April 28, 2012, 02:18:15 PM
Seven Of The Most Disturbing Quotes From Members Of The Obama Administration

Birds of a feather flock together and so when we see Barack Obama stacking his cabinet with radicals, it tells us a lot about his mentality. Of course, the fact that his entire term in office has been nothing but a slow motion evisceration of the American dream should tell you a lot about how he thinks, too -- but a little more evidence is always welcome. Take a look at these quotes from members of Barack Obama's administration and then ask yourself what sort of man WANTS people like this to help him govern the American people?

1) "Somewhat more broadly, I will suggest that animals should be permitted to bring suit, with human beings as their representatives, to prevent violations of current law." -- Cass Sunstein, Administrator of the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs in the Obama Administration. Yes, we have someone in charge of regulations in D.C. who thinks pigs should be able to sue farmers and cats should be able to sue their owners. Do you think it's a coincidence that the cost of business keeps skyrocketing under Obama because of all the new regulations?

2) "Now, people when I say that look at me and say, ‘What are you talking about, Joe? You’re telling me we have to go spend money to keep from going bankrupt?’ The answer is yes, that’s what I’m telling you." -- Joe Biden, Vice President. When this is how the Vice President of the United States thinks, is it any wonder that this country may only be a decade away from defaulting on our debts and heading into an economic death spiral that we'll never recover from in the lifespan of anyone reading this column?

3) "There’s a different leader in Syria now. Many of the members of Congress of both parties who have gone to Syria in recent months have said they believe he’s a reformer." -- Hillary Clinton, Secretary of State. Yes, the butcher of Syria is a real "reformer," isn't he? If you want to know why our foreign policy has been all bowing, "leading from behind," and chaos, look no further than our Secretary of State who knew nothing about foreign policy going in, but made a career out of being married to the right man.

4) "Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards." -- Eric Holder, Attorney General. Eric Holder is a throwback to the bad old days in America, when whether you got justice or not depended on the color of your skin. Is it any wonder he doesn't care about Mexicans or a white border patrol agent who lost his life because of Operation Fast and Furious? Is it a surprise that Holder turned a blind eye to the New Black Panthers engaging in voter intimidation and putting a bounty on George Zimmerman's head?

5) "When I became the NASA administrator — or before I became the NASA administrator — (Obama) charged me with three things. One was he wanted me to help re-inspire children to want to get into science and math, he wanted me to expand our international relationships, and third, and perhaps foremost, he wanted me to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science … and math and engineering." -- Charles Bolden, NASA Administrator. When Neil Armstrong landed on the moon, he said, "That's one small step for a man; one giant leap for mankind." Well, while Obama goes on and on about "investment," "science," and "the future," we've actually taken one giant leap backwards since we no longer have a manned space program. Guess we needed to save that money to funnel into the businesses of people who contribute to Obama's campaign.

6) "One way to carry out this disapproval might be to insist that all illegitimate babies be put up for adoption—especially those born to minors, who generally are not capable of caring properly for a child alone. If a single mother really wished to keep her baby, she might be obliged to go through adoption proceedings and demonstrate her ability to support and care for it. Adoption proceedings probably should remain more difficult for single people than for married couples, in recognition of the relative difficulty of raising children alone. It would even be possible to require pregnant single women to marry or have abortions, perhaps as an alternative to placement for adoption, depending on the society." -- John Holdren, Assistant to the President for Science and Technology. So, we have a man with the morals of Joseph Mengele advising the President on science. It also shouldn't be lost on anyone that while Obama is yammering on about a "war on women," he has someone on his staff who has come out in favor of FORCED ABORTIONS.

7) "Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe." -- Steven Chu, Energy Secretary. Ever wonder why gas prices are so high under Obama? Could it be because Obama's Energy Secretary wants to dramatically increase the price of gas? Gas is more than $8 a gallon in most of Western Europe. Guess that gives them something to shoot for if Obama gets a second term.
5800  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Political Economics: Economic data is like climate data on: April 28, 2012, 02:15:05 PM
The nominal GDP is tweaked with the man made GDP deflator to calculate 'real' growth, if any.  Some are saying that deflator that was lowered to 1.1% now, if corrected, would put real growth in Q1 2012 at 0.0%.

We're not in a recession.  83% of Americans are wrong. 
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