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10001  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in Europe on: September 17, 2010, 02:02:17 PM

More people who must not understand islam is a religion of peace....  rolleyes
10002  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Israel, and its neighbors on: September 17, 2010, 10:32:03 AM


    *  Radical Chicano student organization
    * Supports open borders, amnesty for illegal aliens, and U.S. recognition of Spanish as an official national language
    * Founded on a platform of racism and revanchism
    * Sees university as “agency” to fulfill political goals

Founded in 1969 at a conference at the University of California at Santa Barabara, MEChA is an acronym for El Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán (the Chicano Student Movement), an umbrella organization of radical Chicano student groups. Aztlán refers to the territory in the Southwestern United States -- including California, Arizona, Texas, New Mexico, as well as parts of Nevada, Utah, and Colorado -- that Mexico ceded to the United States in 1848 but which Mexican separatists consider part of a mythical Aztec homeland that rightfully belongs to them. One of MEChA's more notable co-founders was Lawrence Estrada, who is currently a tenured associate professor at Fairhaven College.

MEChA’s core philosophy is set forth in its founding manifestos, “El Plan Espiritual de Aztlán” and “El Plan de Santa Barbara.” In the former document, MEChA declares, “We do not recognize capricious frontiers on the bronze continent [the United States],” and vows to repel the “brutal ‘gringo’ invasion of our territories.” MEChA further states: “Where we are a majority we will control; where we are a minority we will represent a pressure group; nationally, we represent one party: La Familia de Raza [the Family of Race].” MEChA’s mission finds additional expression it the organization’s slogan, “Por la Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada," which translates to “For the race, everything. Outside of the race, nothing.”

Although MEChA has claimed that the aforementioned documents no longer represent its beliefs, this defense is belied by the organization’s more recent documents. MEChA’s current constitution, for instance, instructs chapter leaders to “
  • rient all members by discussing and reading historical documents of our Movimiento including: El Plan de Santa Barbara, El Plan Espiritual de Aztlán …” Accordingly, MEChA member groups, such the UC Berkeley chapter, cite these documents and explain that “MEChA understands that our founding documents are the fundamentals to MEChA.“

By supporting continued high levels of Mexican immigration to the United States, MEChA hopes to achieve, by sheer weight of numbers, the re-partition of the American Southwest. Toward this end, the organization endorses a host of pro-immigration policies. These include open borders, government benefits (including the right to vote and obtain drivers’ licenses) for non-citizens, amnesty for illegal aliens, dual citizenship, state recognition of Spanish as an official language, and racial set-asides in education and corporate hiring.

MEChA espouses what it calls an ideology of “Chicanismo,” wherein Chicano purity is held up as a supreme virtue while assimilation is denounced as a betrayal of ethnic heritage. Those Latinos who fail to adhere to MEChA’s ideological platform are condemned as “race traitors.” In 1995, the Voz Fronteriza, the University of California San Diego's official MEChA publication, published an editorial on the death of a Latino INS (Immigration and Naturalization Services) agent. Describing him as a traitor to his race who deserved to die, the editors of the Voz concluded that "all the migra [a pejorative term for the INS] pigs should be killed, every single one."

As a student organization, MEChA has concentrated its political activism on American higher education. According to MEChA, the “university is a critical agency in the transformation of the Chicano community.” Historically, the organization has pursued two aims. On the belief that American universities engage in pro-capitalist political indoctrination, MEChA has sought to popularize its own belief about the evils of the capitalist system -- the ethic of capitalism is, in MEChA’s view, an “ethic of profit and competition, greed and intolerance” -- while at the same time promoting the “ancestral communalism” of the Mexican people.

Toward this purpose, MEChA has played a frontal role in the creation of Chicano Studies programs. A direct challenge to the traditional university curriculum, these programs are intended to “serve the interests of the Chicano people.” As a result, Chicano students are expected not merely to enroll in these programs but to “insure dominant influence of these programs.” In the words of MEChA’s national constitution, “Chicano and Chicana students of Aztlán must take upon themselves the responsibilities to promote Chicanismo within the community, politicizing our Raza with an emphasis on indigenous consciousness to continue the struggle for the self-determination of the Chicano people for the purpose of liberating Aztlán.” Students also have a duty to “constantly remind” Chicano faculty and administrators “where their loyalty lies.”

Actively involved in political causes, MEChA originally protested against the Vietnam War and rallied on behalf of Chicano labor unions such as the United Farm Workers Union. In recent years, MEChA has become a leading campus advocacy group for illegal immigration -- supporting amnesty, welfare outlays, and taxpayer-funded education for illegal immigrants. Moreover, the organization has opposed the enforcement of immigration laws on the American border with Mexico. MEChA regards both of the main political parties in the U.S. as hostile to its interests, characterizing the two-party system as the “same animal with two heads that feed from the same trough.”

MEChA has today established itself as a potent force on campuses nationwide: the organization boasts upward of 300 chapters in universities across the U.S., some 100 them of in California alone. Chicano Studies programs and departments have proliferated in recent years, many being administered by faculty who were themselves former MEChA activists and who remain sympathetic to the organization’s politics. Despite its radical agenda, MEChA has been able to generate revenue through mandatory student activity fees. MEChA has also focused recruitment on public high schools, establishing high-school chapters and encouraging its young supporters to participate in protests and marches.

While MEChA’s radicalism has been largely rhetorical, the organization has occasionally resorted to violent measures. In 1993, when UCLA denied the group’s demand that the Chicano Studies Program be accorded departmental status, MEChA activists responded by rampaging through the campus and vandalizing the university’s faculty center, reportedly causing $500,000 worth of damage. In 1996, Mecha activists, who call themselves “Mechistas,” were videotaped assaulting demonstrators protesting illegal immigration.

MEChA also has a history of intolerance toward criticism. In 2002, MEChA members stole the press run of the California Patriot, the conservative newspaper at the University of California at Berkeley, for likening MEChA to a neo-Nazi movement. The loss of the newspapers was valued at $2,000. In May of 2006, MEChA activists destroyed 5,000 copies of the Campus Courier, a student newspaper at Pasadena City College, because of what they considered the paper’s inadequate coverage of a MEChA-sponsored event.

MEChA has in the past been associated with anti-Semitic sentiments and groups. A 1998 MEChA youth conference at California Polytechnic State University featured a printed program that introduced the school as “Cal Poly State Jewniversity.” The program also referred to New York as “Jew York.” When the Anti-Defamation League objected to the program, the university’s MEChA chapter issued a formal apology. MEChA has also been linked to La Voz de Aztlán (The Voice of Aztlan), a Chicano webzine that regularly publishes articles attacking Jews, Zionism, and Israel.

Several prominent politicians have emerged from MEChA’s ranks. Among them are Antonio Villaraigosa, who served as President of a MEChA chapter at UCLA. Cruz Bustamante, the lieutenant governor of California and a former gubernatorial candidate, was a member of MEChA as a student at California’s Fresno State College.
10003  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Israel, and its neighbors on: September 17, 2010, 10:01:34 AM
And if enough of the La Raza/MECHA/Atzlanistas decide that California needs to become "New Aztlan" and illegal occupiers such as your self need to be driven out, then what?
10004  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Israel, and its neighbors on: September 17, 2010, 09:44:43 AM

Look at the signs, JDN. They are talking about YOU.
10005  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Israel, and its neighbors on: September 17, 2010, 09:27:47 AM
California wasn't empty when the US got it through warfare. You are on occupied land. How is a white southern californian different morally from white south african in your wealthy gated community?
10006  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Israel, and its neighbors on: September 17, 2010, 08:31:06 AM

Land For Peace, American Style
By Rob Miller
" Never ask a friend to buy a horse you wouldn't buy yourself" - (Loose translation of an old Yiddish proverb)

Apply the principles urged on Israel to the United States, and you end up with a scenario something like this:

The new final settlement conference between the US, Mexico, and the Aztlánistas is scheduled for late June. The agreement promises a new chapter in the relationship between the countries -- and new hope for Mexican refugees yearning for self-determination and a state of their own.

For years, there have been ongoing hostilities, culminating in a rash of illegal immigration and ongoing terrorism on the border. While there are many troublesome issues, new attitudes on both sides of the conflict may mean that peace is finally at hand.

The new status quo will probably look very much like a proposition made by New Aztlán advocates like MEChA (and prominent American academics), tempered with the peace plan promoted by Mexican President Calderon. Other Latin American countries have endorsed the plan.

What the Aztlánistas want is final status on a state of their own with contiguous borders, New Aztlán, to consist of the American territories of California, Texas, New Mexico and Arizona. The capital of the new regime will, of course, be traditionally Aztlánista Los Angeles.

All non-Mexican settlements and American settlers would be evacuated outside these borders to the original pre-1836 US borders, with some modifications, perhaps, to reflect demographics. Part of Northern California, for instance, could be traded for land in southern Nevada, eastern Louisiana, Colorado or Utah as part of a final agreement.

A key demand for the Mexicans and the Aztlánistas is justice for the descendants of the refugees and their descendants dating from the original American-Mexican conflict. They want a full right of return for these refugees and their descendants to Mexican lands still in the hands of the US.  The plan's supporters insist upon a right to settle in the US for those Mexicans dubbed "illegal aliens" who have been victimized by what both the Mexicans and the Aztlánistas denounce as the apartheid border wall and restrictive US immigration policies.
10007  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2010 Elections; 2012 Presidential on: September 17, 2010, 08:14:29 AM
Hopefully Maes drops out so Tancredo can take it.
10008  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Israel, and its neighbors on: September 17, 2010, 08:12:44 AM
I read lots of things, doesn't mean I support it. So, explain how your white south african smear against the israelis doesn't apply to you as well.
10009  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Israel, and its neighbors on: September 16, 2010, 09:21:17 PM

La Raza as Palestinians

There are great similarities between the political and economic condition of the Palestinians in occupied Palestine and that of La Raza in the southwest United States. Fortunately, the struggle for equality by La Raza has not reached the level of violence that is now being experienced in the Holy Land and hopefully it never will. Some ominous signs, however, are manifesting themselves in Los Angeles County that may be a harbinger of things to come. Widespread areas in southern California have recently experienced ambushes, shootings and assassinations of police officers by young disaffected Raza youths who are routinely harassed by special police units like the now disbanded CRASH units of the Los Angeles Police Department.

The similarities are many. The primary one of course is the fact that both La Raza and the Palestinians have been displaced by invaders that have utilized military means to conquer and occupy our territories. The takeover of our respective lands by foreign elements occurred 100 years apart. For La Raza it happened in 1848 when Mexico lost the southwest at the end of the Mexican American War and the signing of the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidlago. For the Palestinians it occurred in 1948 when the Zionist Jewish People's Council gathered at the Tel Aviv Museum and signed the "Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel" on the day in which the British Mandate over a Palestine expired. The effects of the occupation policies over time , 153 years for La Raza de Aztlan and 53 years for the Palestinians, have been eerily similar.
10010  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Israel, and its neighbors on: September 16, 2010, 09:11:54 PM

Mexicans claim where you live and claim that you are using immigration laws to keep them from their homeland.  Do you want to be a minority in Aztlan? Are you the moral equivalent of a white south african?
10011  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Paleo diet on: September 16, 2010, 07:58:52 PM
Anyone tried eating like a caveman? Thoughts?
10012  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Head injury/brain damage/concussion in boxing, kickboxing, football, etc: on: September 16, 2010, 06:59:32 PM
Were it me, I'd run these questions past a neurologist.
10013  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2010 Elections; 2012 Presidential on: September 16, 2010, 05:11:20 PM
Typical Left Angeles Times spin. Maes and McInnis were both flawed candidates.
10014  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2010 Elections; 2012 Presidential on: September 16, 2010, 02:25:54 PM
O'Donnell is not my idea of a good candidate. Her character should matter. We don't want to be like the dems.
10015  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Free Speech vs. Islamic Fascism (formerly Buy DANISH!!!) on: September 16, 2010, 02:23:15 PM
Well, as islam is the religion of peace, she has nothing to worry about. Anyone who says otherwise is probably just some right wing islamiphobe....
10016  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Al andalus (i.e. Spain) on: September 16, 2010, 02:11:19 PM

In 1291 Isaac ben Samuel, a noted Kabbalist and Palestinian Jew, sought refuge in a Christian-controlled area of Spain after the collapse of the last Crusader kingdom in the Levant. He explained, “For, in the eyes of the Muslims, the children of Israel are as open to abuse as an unprotected field. Even in their law and statutes they rule that the testimony of a Muslim is always to be believed against that of a Jew. For this reason our rabbis of blessed memory have said, ‘Rather beneath the yoke of Edom [Christendom] than that of Ishmael [Islam]. They [the rabbis] plead for mercy before the Holy One, Blessed be He, saying, ‘Master of the World, either let us live beneath Thy shadow or else beneath that of the children of Edom’ (Talmud, Gittin 17a).”

Ben Samuel’s choice of Christian Spain is paradoxical, as Muslim Spain was supposed to have been a famous exception to the oppression of Jews that prevailed elsewhere among both Muslims and Christians. Islamic apologist Karen Armstrong enunciates the common wisdom when she says that “until 1492, Jews and Christians lived peaceably and productively together in Muslim Spain—a coexistence that was impossible elsewhere in Europe.” Even the U.S. State Department has proclaimed that “during the Islamic period in Spain, Jews, Christians, and Muslims lived together in peace and mutual respect, creating a diverse society in which vibrant exchanges of ideas took place.”

Yet the philosopher Maimonides, a Jew who lived for a time in Muslim Spain and then fled that supposedly tolerant and pluralistic land, remarked, “You know, my brethren, that on account of our sins God has cast us into the midst of this people, the nation of Ishmael, who persecute us severely, and who devise ways to harm us and to debase us.…No nation has ever done more harm to Israel. None has matched it in debasing and humiliating us. None has been able to reduce us as they have.…We have borne their imposed degradation, their lies, and absurdities, which are beyond human power to bear.”

Notably, Maimonides directed that Jews could teach rabbinic law to Christians, but not to Muslims. For Muslims, he said, will interpret what they are taught “according to their erroneous principles and they will oppress us. [F]or this reason … they hate all [non-Muslims] who live among them.” But the Christians, he said, “admit that the text of the Torah, such as we have it, is intact”—as opposed to the Islamic view that the Jews and Christians have corrupted their scriptures. Christians, continued Maimonides, “do not find in their religious law any contradiction with ours.”
10017  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Al andalus (i.e. Spain) on: September 16, 2010, 01:18:21 PM

Andalusian Myth, Eurabian Reality

Inventing the past, and denying the present. A Jihad Watch EXCLUSIVE essay by Bat Ye'or and Andrew G. Bostom:

    On Sunday, April 18, 2004, this revealing exchange took place between outgoing Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, and interviewer Chris Wallace of FoxNews:

    Chris Wallace: "In the apartment that was blown up, police found a videotape in which the bombers referred to Spain as Andalusia, what it was called by the Muslim Moors before they were driven out in 1492."

    Jose Maria Aznar (through the translator): "So this means that Iraq, for them, was just a pretext. In the eyes of Islamic terrorism, it looks at the West, and Spain is a very special part of this parcel, because they feel that to recover Spain is to get back some of their territory."

    Islamic scholar Mordechai Nisan recently discussed the contention by the founder of the Institute of Islamic Education, M. Amir Ali, that Medieval Spain had actually been "liberated" by Muslim forces, who "deposed its tyrants". Nisan extrapolated this ahistorical narrative line, and pondered:

    "Reflecting on March 11, as Muslim terrorism killed 200 and wounded 1,400 in Madrid, one wonders whether one day this event will also not be commemorated as a liberating moment. "

    Events surrounding the completion of the new Granada Mosque, which was marked by celebratory announcements July 10, 2003 of a "...return of Islam to Spain", were also consistent with Nisan's dark musings. At a conference entitled "Islam in Europe" that accompanied the opening of the mosque, disconcerting statements were made by European Muslim leaders. Specifically, the keynote speaker at this conference, Umar Ibrahim Vadillo, a Spanish Muslim leader, encouraged Muslims to cause an economic collapse of Western economies (by ceasing to use Western currencies, and switching to gold dinars), while the German Muslim leader Abu Bakr Rieger told Muslim attendees to avoid adapting their Islamic religious practices to accommodate European (i.e., Western Enlightenment?) values.

    Shortly after this event, a Wall Street Journal editorialist in a grossly distorted encomium to Muslim Spain, mentioned the "pan-confessional humanism" of Andalusian Islam, and even asserted: "one could argue that the oft-bewailed missing 'reformation' of Islam was under way there until it was aborted by the Inquisition."

    María Rosa Menocal, Yale Professor of Spanish and Portuguese, in her 2002 hagiography of Muslim Spain, The Ornament of the World, has further maintained that "the new Islamic polity not only allowed Jews and Christians to survive, but following Qur'anic mandate, by and large protected them."

    We believe that reiterating these ahistorical, roseate claims about Muslim Spain abets the contemporary Islamist agenda, and retards the evolution of a liberal, reformed "Euro-Islam" fully compatible with post-Enlightenment Western values.

    Iberia (Spain) was conquered in 710-716 AD by Arab tribes originating from northern, central and southern Arabia. Massive Berber and Arab immigration, and the colonization of the Iberian peninsula, followed the conquest. Most churches were converted into mosques. Although the conquest had been planned and conducted jointly with a strong faction of royal Iberian Christian dissidents, including a bishop, it proceeded as a classical jihad with massive pillages, enslavement, deportations and killings.

    Toledo, which had first submitted to the Arabs in 711 or 712, revolted in 713. The town was punished by pillage and all the notables had their throats cut. In 730, the Cerdagne (in Septimania, near Barcelona) was ravaged and a bishop burned alive. In the regions under stable Islamic control, Jews and Christians were tolerated as dhimmis - like elsewhere in other Islamic lands - and could not build new churches or synagogues nor restore the old ones. Segregated in special quarters, they had to wear discriminatory clothing. Subjected to heavy taxes, the Christian peasantry formed a servile class attached to the Arab domains; many abandoned their land and fled to the towns. Harsh reprisals with mutilations and crucifixions* would sanction the Mozarab (Christian dhimmis) calls for help from the Christian kings. Moreover, if one dhimmi harmed a Muslim, the whole community would lose its status of protection, leaving it open to pillage, enslavement and arbitrary killing.

    By the end of the eighth century, the rulers of North Africa and of Andalusia had introduced Malikism, one of the most rigorous schools of Islamic jurisprudence, and subsequently repressed the other Muslim schools of law. Three quarters of a century ago, at a time when political correctness was not dominating historical publication and discourse, Evariste Lévi-Provençal, the pre-eminent scholar of Andalusia, wrote: "The Muslim Andalusian state thus appears from its earliest origins as the defender and champion of a jealous orthodoxy, more and more ossified in a blind respect for a rigid doctrine, suspecting and condemning in advance the least effort of rational speculation."

    The humiliating status imposed on the dhimmis and the confiscation of their land provoked many revolts, punished by massacres, as in Toledo (761, 784-86, 797). After another Toledan revolt in 806, seven hundred inhabitants were executed. Insurrections erupted in Saragossa from 781 to 881, Cordova (805), Merida (805-813, 828 and the following year, and later in 868), and yet again in Toledo (811-819); the insurgents were crucified, as prescribed in Qur'an 5:33*.

    The revolt in Cordova of 818 was crushed by three days of massacres and pillage, with 300 notables crucified and 20 000 families expelled. Feuding was endemic in the Andalusian cities between the different sectors of the population: Arab and Berber colonizers, Iberian Muslim converts (Muwalladun) and Christian dhimmis (Mozarabs). There were rarely periods of peace in the Amirate of Cordova (756-912), nor later.

    Al-Andalus represented the land of jihad par excellence. Every year, sometimes twice a year, raiding expeditions were sent to ravage the Christian Spanish kingdoms to the north, the Basque regions, or France and the Rhone valley, bringing back booty and slaves. Andalusian corsairs attacked and invaded along the Sicilian and Italian coasts, even as far as the Aegean Islands, looting and burning as they went. Thousands of people were deported to slavery in Andalusia, where the caliph kept a militia of tens of thousand of Christian slaves brought from all parts of Christian Europe (the Saqaliba), and a harem filled with captured Christian women. Society was sharply divided along ethnic and religious lines, with the Arab tribes at the top of the hierarchy, followed by the Berbers who were never recognized as equals, despite their Islamization; lower in the scale came the mullawadun converts and, at the very bottom, the dhimmi Christians and Jews.

    The Andalusian Maliki jurist Ibn Abdun (d. 1134) offered these telling legal opinions regarding Jews and Christians in Seville around 1100 C.E.: "No...Jew or Christian may be allowed to wear the dress of an aristocrat, nor of a jurist, nor of a wealthy individual; on the contrary they must be detested and avoided. It is forbidden to [greet] them with the [expression], 'Peace be upon you'. In effect, 'Satan has gained possession of them, and caused them to forget God's warning. They are the confederates of Satan's party; Satan's confederates will surely be the losers!' (Qur'an 58:19 [modern Dawood translation]). A distinctive sign must be imposed upon them in order that they may be recognized and this will be for them a form of disgrace."

    Ibn Abdun also forbade the selling of scientific books to dhimmis, under the pretext that they translated them and attributed them to their co-religionists and bishops. In fact, plagiarism is difficult to prove since whole Jewish and Christian libraries were looted and destroyed. Another prominent Andalusian jurist, Ibn Hazm of Cordoba (d. 1064), wrote that Allah has established the infidels' ownership of their property merely to provide booty for Muslims.

    In Granada, the Jewish viziers Samuel Ibn Naghrela and his son Joseph, who protected the Jewish community, were both assassinated between 1056 to 1066, followed by the annihilation of the Jewish population by the local Muslims. It is estimated that up to five thousand Jews perished in the pogrom by Muslims that accompanied the 1066 assassination. This figure equals or exceeds the number of Jews reportedly killed by the Crusaders during their pillage of the Rhineland, some thirty years later, at the outset of the First Crusade.

    The Granada pogrom was likely to have been incited, in part, by the bitter anti-Jewish ode of Abu Ishaq, a well known Muslim jurist and poet of the times, who wrote: "Put them back where they belong and reduce them to the lowest of the low..turn your eyes to other [Muslim] countries and you will find the Jews there are outcast dogs...Do not consider it a breach of faith to kill them...They have violated our covenant with them so how can you be held guilty against the violators?"

    The Muslim Berber Almohads in Spain and North Africa (1130-1232) wreaked enormous destruction on both the Jewish and Christian populations. This devastation- massacre, captivity, and forced conversion- was described by the Jewish chronicler Abraham Ibn Daud, and the poet Abraham Ibn Ezra. Suspicious of the sincerity of the Jewish converts to Islam, Muslim "inquisitors" (i.e., antedating their Christian Spanish counterparts by three centuries) removed the children from such families, placing them in the care of Muslim educators. Maimonides, the renowned philosopher and physician, experienced the Almohad persecutions, and had to flee Cordoba with his entire family in 1148, temporarily residing in Fez -- disguised as a Muslim -- before finding asylum in Fatimid Egypt.

    Indeed, although Maimonides is frequently referred to as a paragon of Jewish achievement facilitated by the enlightened rule of Andalusia, his own words debunk this utopian view of the Islamic treatment of Jews: "..the Arabs have persecuted us severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us...Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase, and hate us as much as they.."

    A valid summary assessment of interfaith relationships in Muslim Spain, and the contemporary currents responsible for obfuscating that history, can be found in Richard Fletcher's engaging Moorish Spain. Mr. Fletcher offers these sobering, unassailable observations:

    "The witness of those who lived through the horrors of the Berber conquest, of the Andalusian fitnah in the early eleventh century, of the Almoravid invasion- to mention only a few disruptive episodes- must give it [i.e., the roseate view of Muslim Spain] the lie. The simple and verifiable historical truth is that Moorish Spain was more often a land of turmoil than it was of tranquility...Tolerance? Ask the Jews of Granada who were massacred in 1066, or the Christians who were deported by the Almoravids to Morocco in 1126 (like the Moriscos five centuries later)...In the second half of the twentieth century a new agent of obfuscation makes its appearance: the guilt of the liberal conscience, which sees the evils of colonialism- assumed rather than demonstrated-foreshadowed in the Christian conquest of al-Andalus and the persecution of the Moriscos (but not, oddly, in the Moorish conquest and colonization). Stir the mix well together and issue it free to credulous academics and media persons throughout the western world. Then pour it generously over the the cultural conditions that prevail in the west today the past has to be marketed, and to be successfully marketed it has to be attractively packaged. Medieval Spain in a state of nature lacks wide appeal. Self-indulgent fantasies of wonders for sharpening up its image. But Moorish Spain was not a tolerant and enlightened society even in its most cultivated epoch."

    The socio-political history of Andalusia was characterized by a particularly oppressive dhimmitude that is completely incompatible with modern notions of equality between individuals, regardless of religious faith. At the dawn of the 21st century, we must insist that Muslims in the West adopt post-Enlightenment societal standards of equality, not "tolerance," abandoning forever their hagiography of the brutal, discriminatory standards practiced by the classical Maliki jurists of "enlightened" Andalusia.

    *The Noble Qur'an- Three esteemed translations, online:
    Sura 005, Verse 033
    YUSUF ALI: "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;"
    PICKTHAL: "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;"
    SHAKIR: "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

    Bat Ye'or,, , is the author most recently of Islam and Dhimmitude: Where Civilizations Collide, and the forthcoming Eurabia.

10018  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Al andalus (i.e. Spain) on: September 16, 2010, 01:14:16 PM

Unfortunately for Spain's Muslims, the militants who swear loyalty to Osama bin Laden are history buffs too. In claiming responsibility for the March bombings, they cited the loss of "Al Andalus" as motivation.

"We will continue our jihad until martyrdom in the land of Tarik Ben Ziyad," they said in a communique issued after the massacre, alluding to the Moorish warrior and original Islamic conqueror of the Iberian peninsula.
10019  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Communicating with the Muslim World on: September 16, 2010, 12:58:13 PM
Instead of trying to sell his hold-hands-and-sing-kumbaya b.s. here, Robert Wright needs to go to the muslim world and convince them of the peaceful and moderate nature of islamic theology.

He can start with the cleric below.
10020  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Communicating with the Muslim World on: September 16, 2010, 11:43:37 AM
The Wahabis do definitely define the christian trinity as polytheism. Robert Wright is no islamic scholar, and his weak attempts at defanging islamic theology are wrong and embarrassingly ignorant of what the koran, sunna and hadith teach muslims.
10021  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Issues in the American Creed (Constitutional Law and related matters) on: September 16, 2010, 07:46:44 AM
Because it's not the same as someone rummaging through your sock drawers in your home. You have a reasonable expectation of privacy in your home. You sure don't in the net.
10022  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Issues in the American Creed (Constitutional Law and related matters) on: September 15, 2010, 08:53:53 PM
Isn't a core belief of libertarianism personal responsibility? No one makes you join facebook or any other social network. The interwebs is dangerous and all sorts of beasties lurk in it's depths. I assume that I'm always being looked at on the web and act accordingly.
10023  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Energy Politics & Science on: September 15, 2010, 08:08:08 PM
Obama believes, like much of the left, that America should be just another country. No richer, or more powerful than any other. He also believes that the wealth and power we have we got unfairly, so it's only fair to spread it around.
10024  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Energy Politics & Science on: September 15, 2010, 07:35:26 PM
Obama has got to spread the wealth around, just as he told JTP.
10025  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Free Speech vs. Islamic Fascism (formerly Buy DANISH!!!) on: September 15, 2010, 07:34:09 PM
Burning an American flag is protected speech, per the SCOTUS, but a koran has a protected legal status?
10026  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Speaking of the Cordoba House..... on: September 15, 2010, 05:51:07 PM
In fact, the proposed structure is known in Islamic history as a rabat -- literally a connector. The first rabat appeared at the time of the Prophet.

The Prophet imposed his rule on parts of Arabia through a series of ghazvas, or razzias (the origin of the English word "raid"). The ghazva was designed to terrorize the infidels, convince them that their civilization was doomed and force them to submit to Islamic rule. Those who participated in the ghazva were known as the ghazis, or raiders.

After each ghazva, the Prophet ordered the creation of a rabat -- or a point of contact at the heart of the infidel territory raided. The rabat consisted of an area for prayer, a section for the raiders to eat and rest and facilities to train and prepare for future razzias. Later Muslim rulers used the tactic of ghazva to conquer territory in the Persian and Byzantine empires. After each raid, they built a rabat to prepare for the next razzia.

It is no coincidence that Islamists routinely use the term ghazva to describe the 9/11 attacks against New York and Washington. The terrorists who carried out the attack are referred to as ghazis or shahids (martyrs).

Thus, building a rabat close to Ground Zero would be in accordance with a tradition started by the Prophet. To all those who believe and hope that the 9/11 ghazva would lead to the destruction of the American "Great Satan," this would be of great symbolic value.

Faced with the anger of New Yorkers, the promoters of the project have started calling it the Cordoba House, echoing President Obama's assertion that it would be used to propagate "moderate" Islam.

The argument is that Cordoba, in southern Spain, was a city where followers of Islam, Christianity and Judaism lived together in peace and produced literature and philosophy.

In fact, Cordoba's history is full of stories of oppression and massacre, prompted by religious fanaticism. It is true that the Muslim rulers of Cordoba didn't force their Christian and Jewish subjects to accept Islam. However, non-Muslims could keep their faith and enjoy state protection only as dhimmis (bonded ones) by paying a poll tax in a system of religious apartheid.

If whatever peace and harmony that is supposed to have existed in Cordoba were the fruit of "Muslim rule," the subtext is that the United States would enjoy similar peace and harmony under Islamic rule.

A rabat in the heart of Manhattan would be of great symbolic value to those who want a high-profile, "in your face" projection of Islam in the infidel West.

Read more:
10027  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Al andalus (i.e. Spain) on: September 15, 2010, 05:46:50 PM

The Moroccan authorities say they have broken up a militant cell operating in several towns in the kingdom.

The group allegedly had links with al- Qaeda and police described the 15 people arrested as "dangerous".

They had electronic and chemical materials used to make explosives, reports the state press agency, MAP.

It is the fourth such network Morocco says it has broken up this year. An al-Qaeda-inspired group has said it was behind recent attacks in Algeria.

"The members of this structure, known as "Fath al-Andalous" [Conquest of Andalusia], planned to carry out attacks in Morocco and had formed operational links with foreign extremists who have pledged allegiance to the al-Qaeda organisation," MAP says.
10028  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Al andalus on: September 15, 2010, 05:34:11 PM

“Al-Qaeda has not lost sight of the global jihad and, in exchanges with the Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC), it has told them to quickly attack local targets and reminds them that their real goal is to cross into Al Andalus,” it said.

Al Andalus is the Arabic name for the parts of the Iberian peninsula that were under Muslim, or Moorish, control for almost 800 years until the late 15th century.

The GSPC last year changed its name to Al-Qaeda’s Branch in the Islamic Maghreb.

In September 2007, Al-Qaeda number two Ayman al-Zawahiri called for Al Andalus to be restored to the Islamic world, saying the first step needs to be the “cleansing’ of Spaniards and French from the Maghreb.
10029  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Al andalus on: September 15, 2010, 05:27:53 PM

Spain fears Islamists reclaiming "al-Andalus" By Sinikka Tarvainen
dpa German Press Agency
Published: Wednesday March 7, 2007    

By Sinikka Tarvainen,
Madrid- While the international spotlight is on 29 suspects
on trial for the 2004 Madrid train bombings, Spanish police are
working behind the scenes to counter a growing threat of new attacks.
Radicals inspired by al-Qaeda have stepped up propaganda and
recruitment activities in Spain, a country they claim as a part of
the Islamic world because of its Muslim past, according to police

**Gosh, if only the Spanish were nicer to them, right JDN?**

Islamist websites have also long called for a reconquest of al-
Andalus, a Moorish name for Spain, parts of which were ruled by
Muslims for nearly eight centuries until 1492.
10030  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Al andalus on: September 15, 2010, 05:18:17 PM

"Our raids will not encompass just the Muslim Sahara, but will go beyond it… Al-Andalus [i.e. Muslim Spain] is before our eyes, and with Allah's help we will take back the land of Islam and what was plundered from our forefathers, no matter how long ago this takes…
10031  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Al andalus (i.e. Spain) on: September 15, 2010, 05:16:43 PM

 MADRID, Spain (CNN) -- Spanish police Tuesday arrested a Spanish soldier and his Russian girlfriend for allegedly posting videos on the Internet promoting Islamic extremist views and calling for attacks in Spain, a Ministry of Interior statement said.

The suspects, both 23 years old and practicing Muslims, were arrested in the southern Spanish city of Granada. They were identified as Christian Peso Ruiz Coello, born in Granada, and Maria Choubina, born in Leningrad (now Saint Petersburg) in 1985.

Their videos allegedly aimed to inspire Islamic extremists to carry out attacks, using messages such as a call to liberate "Al Andalus," the vast portion of Spain under Muslim rule for centuries during the Middle Ages until the Catholic monarchs conquered the last bastion of Granada, in 1492.
10032  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / "Partners in peace" on: September 15, 2010, 03:08:13 PM

Ironically, the same officials who are offering themselves to Israelis as "peace partners," are, at the same time, telling Palestinians -- in Arabic -- that Israel does not want peace. The tone in the Palestinian media remains as anti-Israel as ever.

In just the past week, Palestinian Authority officials have even escalated their rhetoric by issuing daily threats to withdraw from the US-sponsored direct talks that were launched in Washington last week.

In Arabic, Mahmoud Abbas and his top officials are telling Palestinians that they would never make "even one concession" to Israel during the peace talks. In Arabic, they are saying that they will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state; will never relinquish the right of return of millions of refugees to Israel, and will never make any compromises on Jerusalem.

In Arabic, they are also telling the Palestinians that Israel is not serious about peace, and that there is no real partner for peace in Israel.

In English, however, the same officials are telling the Israelis that they are ready to display flexibility and make "sacrifices" for the sake of peace.
10033  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Israel, and its neighbors on: September 15, 2010, 03:03:04 PM
What exactly do you think Israel should do that it isn't?
10034  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Israel, and its neighbors on: September 15, 2010, 02:38:30 PM
It's not in our interest to let Israel be destroyed.
10035  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Israel, and its neighbors on: September 15, 2010, 02:05:27 PM
Again you miss the point JDN. If Israel ceased to exist, the muslim world would be enraged about the occupied land of "al andulas". There has to be an element of pragmatism to America's foreign policy, but the has to be a moral core as well. Our support of Israel is morallly right.
10036  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Issues in the American Creed (Constitutional Law and related matters) on: September 15, 2010, 01:53:19 PM
Well, the point was that today there would be technological elements to the investigation, but much of it would be the same as decades ago. You talk to people, look for witnesses. The husband might be placed at the scene by a cell phone tower ping, or even better by old Mrs. Jones across the street that heard a loud fight from the residence at the estimated time of death.
10037  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Tea party outreach courts Jews on: September 14, 2010, 09:41:29 PM

In announcing DiverseTea, though, Kibbe pointed to the diversity of the speakers at the rally his group sponsored Sunday on Washington’s National Mall, including the Rev. C.L. Bryant, who is African-American, and activists Tito Munoz, who is Hispanic, and Ryan Hecker, who is Jewish.

Hecker, who will appear in the ads with Bryant and other tea partiers, led the effort to develop a crowd-sourced statement of tea party principles called the Contract From America — intended as a populist take on the 1994 Contract With America that Republicans used in their campaign to retake Congress that year — which was a theme of Sunday’s rally. It has been signed by movement-favored Senate candidates including Marco Rubio of Florida, Ken Buck of Colorado and Mike Lee of Utah.

Unlike Bryant’s race or Munoz’s ethnicity, Hecker seldom speaks of his religion at tea party events, but he said “it’s definitely a part of who I am.”

He said he was happy to do the ads because “for me, it was to make a statement that the tea party is not just a one-religion movement — it’s not just a Christian movement. It’s about fiscal issues, not about religion or the color of our skin.”

Read more:
10038  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Libertarian Homicide Investigation on: September 14, 2010, 06:23:43 PM
Ok Det. BBG, here is your case:

You are called out to a suburban home in a middle class neighborhood. Patrol officers and the coroner's office is on scene. You have a deceased middle aged female in the home with visible blunt force trauma to the face and neck. She is partially clad, underwear pulled down to her ankles. The decedent's husband made the initial call to 911, reporting that he found his home burglarized and his wife deceased when he returned home from work. He gave an initial statement to patrol to this effect, complained of chest pains and was taken by ambulance to a local ER.

Ok, so please tell me how you would investigate this case without doing anything you feel to be unconstitutional.
10039  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Politics of Health Care on: September 14, 2010, 03:30:26 PM

It looks like the white house wants a partial repeal of obamacare. Smells like desperation.
10040  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: China on: September 14, 2010, 01:11:33 PM

Up to this point, the scenario sounds incredibly similar to the run-up to the housing bust in the United States. But there are crucial differences. Let me describe a few.
No. 1: Chinese buyers aren't nearly as leveraged as US buyers were
Down payments in China were a high 30%; in the U.S., at the height of the frenzy, lenders were bundling two mortgages together so that a buyer could borrow the required (and much smaller) down payment as well. Homebuyers effectively were putting nothing down.

And Chinese homebuyers started off with a much larger base of savings. In 2009, the Chinese savings rate was about 40%. In the years just before the end of the U.S. boom, Americans' savings rate had actually turned negative.

As a result of those differences, I don't think a real-estate bust in China would set off the huge contraction of family balance sheets and consequent steep drop in consumer spending that have resulted from the bust in the United States.
10041  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Corrections and Prison on: September 14, 2010, 08:14:49 AM

Attack on SC prison guard renews phone-jam debate

By MEG KINNARD (AP) – 17 hours ago

COLUMBIA, S.C. — South Carolina authorities who have helped push for permission to block cell phone signals inside prisons say an officer in charge of keeping out contraband was nearly killed at his home — in an attack planned with a smuggled phone.

Corrections Department Capt. Robert Johnson was getting ready to go to work at Lee Correctional Institution about 50 miles east of Columbia one day last March. Around 5:30 a.m., a man broke down the front door of Johnson's mobile home, shooting the 15-year prison veteran six times in the chest and stomach.
10042  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Privacy on: September 13, 2010, 10:24:07 PM
Law enforcement investigations have always been based on the correlating of information. There is a digital element today there wasn't in the past, but aside from the technology/forensic science, homicide investigations today are done much as they were when Jack the Ripper was stalking Whitechapel.
10043  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Privacy on: September 13, 2010, 09:53:39 PM
The majority of human history, there wasn't much in the way of privacy. Hunter-gatherer tribes or agricultural villages, you were known and given the living conditions, most everything about at all times was seen/heard/smelled by those around you.

Only in recent times, in cities and suburbs with individual dwellings, did we develop a sense of privacy that we have now.

Were the 4th about "security", then why did the law enforcement of the time of the founders not have any restriction imposed on it by this concept?

The founders were accustomed to the redcoats kicking in doors to search without anything more the the authority of the crown. They imposed the 4th to insure that American law enforcement obtained a warrant from an independent magistrate prior to the door kicking. You'll note that they did not forbid search and seizure, just imposed standards that had to be met before it could be done.

10044  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: India and India-afpakia (and China?) on: September 13, 2010, 05:59:34 PM
President Bush did a lot to develop ties with India. Our current resident of the white house has done his best to undo those improved relations.
10045  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Privacy on: September 13, 2010, 05:28:33 PM

Looks like one got a wrist slap at the most, in the JTP snooping scandal. Disgusting.

I know that sheriffs have gone to federal prison for using NCIC to run their election opposition.
10046  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Conditioning on: September 13, 2010, 05:20:05 PM
I think that lesson was conditioned right into the deepest part of my brain.  cry
10047  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Conditioning on: September 13, 2010, 01:47:08 PM
Just started working out with kettlebells. Got a good reminder how important proper form is when I started to stand up a bit too early while doing two arm swings.  shocked

Lucky it was the smallest kettlebell and I had mostly stopped it's motion....  rolleyes
10048  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Stretching on: September 13, 2010, 01:36:50 PM
Thanks 5Rings.

I had no idea. I will have to educate myself on dynamic joint mobility strategies.
10049  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Privacy on: September 13, 2010, 10:37:57 AM

Lt. Gary Lewis of the State Highway Patrol said Thursday that the agency audited databases in May and found files on Bowersox had been improperly accessed eight times.

Lewis says the audit reflected a 2009 state law cracking down on unauthorized record-checking. It was prompted by checks done on another Ohio celebrity, the 2008 campaign figure known as "Joe the Plumber."
10050  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Privacy on: September 13, 2010, 10:24:52 AM

At the Bureau of Motor Vehicles headquarters on the Hilltop, clerk Jay Wright, 47, of the Near East Side, was fired from his $43,434-a-year job on June 22 for checking Bowersox's vehicle-registration information Feb. 24.

The 17-year state employee said he was merely curious. "I saw she was indeed from Ohio ... and thought, 'Great, a local girl may have a shot at making it big' and that was that. At no time did I take her personal information, print it or commit it to memory for any financial or personal gain," Wright told officials.

He was indicted last month for unauthorized use of property, a fifth-degree felony carrying up to a year in prison. Wright pleaded not guilty Friday. Patrol spokesman Lt. Gary Lewis said the case was the only one in which the patrol had jurisdiction.
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