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11901  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Coming Clusterfcuk on: November 06, 2008, 09:02:25 PM

Obama, Dems Seek to End 401(k) Plans
By Mark Impomeni
Oct 24th 2008 9:00AM
Filed Under:eDemocrats, Barack Obama, 2008 President

Sen. Barack Obama's Democratic allies in Congress are looking into a radical new plan that would fundamentally change the way Americans save for retirement. House Democrats recently heard testimony on the idea and, under a potential Obama administration, would likely move to put it in place. Democrats want to seize the money that workers currently invest in their 401(k) plans and replace the popular retirement savings accounts with a one-size-fits-all government sponsored retirement account. Under the scheme, Americans would be forced to transfer all of their hard earned retirement savings from their 401(k) to the government.

The government would contribute $600 a year to fund each account and would pay a rate of return of around three percent in interest. The government would also mandate that each worker contribute 5% of their yearly salary to the accounts. Under current law, workers with 401(k) plans contribute to their retirement accounts and earn interest tax free. The Democrats' plan would end those tax breaks, amounting to as much as a 15% tax hike on each American worker.

Rep. Jim McDermott (D-WA) said recently that Democrats had better ideas for the $80 billion that Americans contribute to their 401(k) plans each year. "We have to start thinking about whether or not we want to continue to invest that $80 billion for a policy that's not doing what we say it should." Sen. Obama would likely sign on to the plan as president.

Obama, McDermott, and Congressional Democrats miss the point that under current law, Americans have control over their retirement savings, where and how it is invested, and when and how much they contribute. The idea to nationalize retirement savings is another example of Democrats' socialist proclivities. They want control of Americans' retirement to reside in Washington DC, not on Main St., all in the name of "retirement security."
11902  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Coming Clusterfcuk on: November 06, 2008, 08:41:21 PM

U.S. Stocks Tumble in Market's Worst Two-Day Slump Since 1987
By Lynn Thomasson

Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks slid, sending the market to its biggest two-day slump since 1987, after jobless claims jumped and the shrinking economy crushed earnings at companies from Blackstone Group Inc. to News Corp.

Blackstone, the largest private-equity firm, fell 12 percent after posting the biggest quarterly loss in its 18 months as a public company. News Corp. sank 16 percent after the media company controlled by Rupert Murdoch said ad sales decreased. Chevron Corp. fell 6.4 percent as oil tumbled to a 19-month low, while an unexpected decrease in chain-store sales dragged down 25 of 27 shares in the S&P 500 Retailing Index.

``We're a long way from the end of the economic challenges,'' said Mike Morcos, who helps manage $1 billion at Old Second Wealth Management in Aurora, Illinois. ``Earnings next year are going to be significantly lower and estimates are going to continue to come down.''

The Standard & Poor's 500 Index fell 5 percent to 904.88, extending its two-day loss to 10 percent. The Dow Jones Industrial Average retreated 443.48 points, or 4.9 percent, to 8,695.79. The Russell 2000 Index of small U.S. companies declined 3.7 percent to 495.84. The MSCI World Index of 23 developed markets lost 5.9 percent to 925.09.

The two-day tumble following Election Day wiped out more than half of the market's rebound from a five-year low on Oct. 27. Both the S&P 500 and Dow average posted their biggest two-day slides since plunging more than 24 percent as rising borrowing costs helped spur the market crash of October 1987.

Europe Slides

BP Plc led a 5.6 percent retreat in Europe's benchmark index even after the Bank of England unexpectedly cut its benchmark interest rate by 1.5 percentage points to 3 percent to contain damage from a recession. Switzerland's central bank and the European Central Bank reduced their main lending rates by 50 basis points.

The S&P 500 is down 38 percent this year, poised for the steepest annual retreat since 1937. The benchmark for U.S. equities has plunged 42 percent since its record in October 2007 after the U.S. economy shrunk in two of the last four quarters.

The VIX, as the Chicago Board Options Exchange Volatility Index is known, climbed 17 percent to 63.68. The measure tracks the cost of using options as insurance against declines in the S&P 500.

``It's just been a steady, steady sell,'' said Alan Gayle, the Richmond, Virginia-based senior strategist at Ridgeworth Investments, which oversees about $70 billion. ``The pain and frustration and anxiety of these volatile moves from one day to the next has discouraged a lot of investors to move to the sidelines.''

Lost Jobs

About 481,000 workers filed initial jobless claims last week, the Labor Department said today in Washington, exceeding the 477,000 projected by economists surveyed by Bloomberg News. The number of people staying on benefit rolls was the most since February 1983.

A report tomorrow will probably show U.S. employers eliminated jobs in October for a 10th consecutive month, based on economists' estimates.

Earnings at companies in the S&P 500 that have reported third-quarter results fell 9.2 percent on average, Bloomberg data show. Analysts expect full-year profits to drop 7.7 percent, according to a compilation of analysts' estimates.

S&P 500 energy companies lost 6.1 percent as a group, as oil declined for the third time this week. Crude for December delivery retreated 6.9 percent to $60.77 a barrel, the lowest settlement since March 2007.

Exxon Mobil, the world's largest oil company, tumbled $3.73 to $69.96, while Chevron Corp. slid 6.4 percent to $70.11.

Tech Slump

Cisco Systems Inc. declined 2.6 percent to $16.94. The biggest maker of networking equipment forecast the first revenue drop in five years because of the financial crisis.

Advanced Micro Devices Inc. tumbled 11 percent to $3.17. The second-largest maker of personal-computer processors plans to cut 500 jobs, about 3 percent of the workforce, as part of its effort to return to profitability.

Technology companies in the S&P 500 lost 5.4 percent collectively. Dell Inc., Intel Corp. and Hewlett-Packard Co. fell more than 5 percent. Inc. sank 9.2 percent to $47.22. The largest Internet retailer was cut to ``hold'' from ``buy'' at Citigroup Inc., which noted the shares' surge of as much as 36 percent since third-quarter results and concerns consumer spending will slow.

GM's Survival

General Motors Corp. had the steepest decline in almost a month, tumbling 14 percent to $4.80. The largest U.S. automaker is focused on winning government aid to survive through 2009, not to help a merger with Chrysler LLC, as it uses cash faster than it forecast, people familiar with the plans said. GM plans to give an update on liquidity when it reports third-quarter results tomorrow.

Tyco Electronics Ltd. fell the most in more than a year, slumping 12 percent to $16.78. Fiscal fourth-quarter profit slid 55 percent on restructuring costs and the company forecast a ``significant'' drop in sales and earnings this period.

News Corp.'s Class A shares tumbled $1.53 to $8.26. Fiscal 2009 profit will drop in the ``low to mid teens'' in percentage terms, the company said after previously forecasting a gain of 4 percent to 6 percent.

Financial stocks in the S&P 500 fell 6.7 percent as a group, led lower by Bank of America Corp. and Wells Fargo & Co. The group is down 52 percent in 2008 as the slowing economy raises concern banks will be hit by more bad loans after the subprime mortgage market's collapse led to $690 billion in credit losses worldwide.

Blackstone's Loss

Blackstone tumbled $1.05 to $7.55 after the financial crisis eroded the value of the businesses and real estate it has acquired, triggering a quarterly loss excluding items of $502.5 million. Blackstone had been expected to break even, based on the average estimate of seven analysts in a Bloomberg survey.

Wells Fargo declined 9.2 percent to $28.77 after the biggest bank on the U.S. West Coast said it plans to sell stock to fund the purchase of Wachovia Corp. The bank also said losses from the acquisition will be less than previously expected.

The bank, which disclosed the share offering yesterday in a statement, had said it would raise as much as $20 billion to fund the deal. That was before the Treasury said it was buying $25 billion of Wells Fargo's preferred shares.

Libor Declines

The slump in financials came even as the London interbank offered rate, or Libor, for three-month loans in dollars dropped 12 basis points to 2.39 percent today, the lowest level since November 2004, according to the British Bankers' Association.

Las Vegas Sands Corp., billionaire Sheldon Adelson's casino company, posted the biggest drop since becoming a publicly traded company with a 33 percent plunge to $7.85 after saying it may default on debt and face bankruptcy.

Big Lots Inc. plunged 26 percent to $17.31 for the steepest decline in the S&P 500. The largest U.S. seller of overstocked and discontinued items said third-quarter profit may be below its prediction.

October same-store sales fell 0.9 percent at U.S. chain stores, the first drop in seven months, and declined 4.2 percent excluding Wal-Mart, the International Council of Shopping Centers said. Economists surveyed by Bloomberg had projected a 0.7 percent increase.

Excluding the effect of the shifting Easter holiday, it's the first decline since at least 2000, according to research firm Retail Metrics LLC.

Grocers Gain

Whole Foods Market Inc. climbed 1.7 percent to $10.48. The largest U.S. natural-foods grocer received a $425 million equity investment from Leonard Green & Partners LP.

Kroger Co., the biggest U.S. supermarket chain, added 1.1 percent to $26.99. Safeway Inc., the third-largest, rose 2 percent to $22.03.

Analysts are lowering fourth quarter and 2009 profit forecasts for U.S. companies as third-period results miss projections at the highest rate in almost 11 years.

Companies in the S&P 500 may see fourth-quarter earnings advance 15 percent, down from 42 percent projected at the end of August, according to a Bloomberg survey of analysts. Profits in 2009 may grow 13 percent, analysts say, compared with the 24 percent predicted two months ago.

To contact the reporter on this story: Lynn Thomasson in New York at

Last Updated: November 6, 2008 17:04 EST
11903  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Coming Clusterfcuk on: November 06, 2008, 08:09:47 PM

The Obama Stock Market Correction
November 06, 2008 05:40 PM ET | James Pethokoukis

Since Election Day, the stock market, as measured by the S&P 500, is down a smidgen over 10 percent. That's what we call a "correction."  Of course, the decline is really part of a broader bear market which has seen the S&P 500 fall some 42 percent. Hey, Obama already warned us that it's going to be "a long road and a steep climb." Maybe if we doubled/tripled/quadrupled/quintupled that big stimulus package ...  What I really wonder is what stocks would be doing if we lowered the capital gains tax rate to zero ...

**Impeach Obama in '08, before it's too late!**
11904  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Palin phenomenon on: November 06, 2008, 07:19:53 PM
Without trying to dig through Alaska and federal law, I'd guess that in theory, yes. I think that would be a very bad idea though.
11905  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Palin phenomenon on: November 06, 2008, 12:45:45 PM

I see this to be a pure toss under the bus. Complete and unnecessary defamation of character. I think they see Palin as a threat in '08 - '12 and are launching pre-emptive strikes.

Yup. Smartest thing for Sarah to do is go back to Alaska and govern well. In the future, the public will want to see a real track record of actually skill as an executive rather than treating a presidential election as a reality TV show and going for the new and exciting novelty.
11906  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: US-Russia on: November 06, 2008, 12:41:40 PM
Our choices:

1. Abandon our allies and usher in a new era of American weakness.

2. Locate a Russian pressure point and push it. As bad as our economy is, theirs is much worse.

3. Make a deal, trade something they want in exchange for them backing off on this point.

4. Direct confrontation. See who blinks first.
11907  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Politics of Health Care on: November 06, 2008, 12:34:15 PM
Growing up, my health/dental care came courtesy of the IHS (Indian Health Service). It operated with the efficiency of the post office and the compassion of the IRS.  grin

A running joke on the reservation goes "What's the leading cause of death on the rez? IHS."
11908  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: US-Russia on: November 06, 2008, 12:26:23 PM
The whole Russia issue was neglected since the Clinton administration. Putin has been subtly making moves, prepping the environment, waiting for his moment. Now the guy that should be wearing the trainee hat is about to be running things, Putin sees his chance to force us to turn tail and abandon our allies.

What can we do? We can show the weakness that europe loves or hold our ground and see who blinks first. Don't think that others aren't watching carefully, waiting to see if Obama isn't just as weak and inept as I/they expect.
11909  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: US-Russia on: November 06, 2008, 11:29:14 AM

Putin (Martial artist, chess player and would-be neo-Tsar of a new Russian empire) makes his opening move and waits to see Obama's reaction.  Anyone betting on Obama to not Fcuk this up?
11910  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: US-Russia on: November 06, 2008, 11:24:50 AM
**Russia, not cutting a break to our woefully unready president-elect.**

About that Test...

While President-elect Obama basks in the glow of his electoral victory, our adversaries are apparently working on that "test" that Joe Biden talked about.

Just hours after Mr. Obama president-elect, Russia announced that it will base surface-to-surface missiles within range of our planned missile defense site in Poland.

According to Russian President Dimitry Medvedev, Moscow will deploy short-range SS-26 Iskander missiles in the Kaliningrad region to "neutralize" the planned missile defense system. He also stated that Russia plans to jam a radar located in the Czech Republic, used to detect in-bound missiles and guide the Polish-based interceptors.

With a range of at least 400 km, Iskander missiles based in Kaliningrad would be able to target the defensive site in Poland. The proposed deployment is the most serious challenge to U.S. plans to base missile defenses in eastern Europe. Washington has stated (repeatedly) that the defensive shield is designed to protect the continent from missiles launched from rogue states, such as Iran. Moscow rejects that argument, claiming that the system is actually aimed at Russia.

While Moscow has long opposed U.S. missile defenses in Europe, the timing of today's announcement is no accident. Mr. Medvedev and his political puppet master, Vladimir Putin, are quite aware of yesterday's election results in the United States. With the departure of George Bush, who championed the deployment, the Russians are mounting a challenge to his successor, who is opposed to "unproven" missile defense systems.

In some respects, the SS-26 movement to Kaliningrad is the first "shot across the bow" of the incoming administration. Moscow is waiting to see if Obama has "steel in his spine," and will stand up to a deliberate Russian provocation. So are our eastern European allies, who wonder if the new president will stand with them against the Russian bear.

On a related note, Iran is warning the U.S. "not to violate its airspace." Get ready for that 3 a.m phone call.
11911  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: November 06, 2008, 11:21:59 AM

I already edited my inappropriate comments this morning.  From what your more recent post, I see that I also need to say that I should not have gone personal in my comments and for that I am sorry
11912  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Libertarian Issues on: November 06, 2008, 11:08:01 AM
I think that 4th Amd. rules apply for tracking internet usage and cellphones. I think a judge should regulate access based on probable cause or reasonable suspicion, bepending on the degree of invasiveness of the search.
11913  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Coming Clusterfcuk on: November 06, 2008, 10:53:58 AM

Get ready for the changes under Obama:

America will change from being rich. America will change from being a superpower. Chug that kool-aid, Hopeandchangers!
11914  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Coming Clusterfcuk on: November 06, 2008, 10:49:14 AM
**Russia, not cutting a break to our woefully unready president-elect.**

About that Test...

While President-elect Obama basks in the glow of his electoral victory, our adversaries are apparently working on that "test" that Joe Biden talked about.

Just hours after Mr. Obama president-elect, Russia announced that it will base surface-to-surface missiles within range of our planned missile defense site in Poland.

According to Russian President Dimitry Medvedev, Moscow will deploy short-range SS-26 Iskander missiles in the Kaliningrad region to "neutralize" the planned missile defense system. He also stated that Russia plans to jam a radar located in the Czech Republic, used to detect in-bound missiles and guide the Polish-based interceptors.

With a range of at least 400 km, Iskander missiles based in Kaliningrad would be able to target the defensive site in Poland. The proposed deployment is the most serious challenge to U.S. plans to base missile defenses in eastern Europe. Washington has stated (repeatedly) that the defensive shield is designed to protect the continent from missiles launched from rogue states, such as Iran. Moscow rejects that argument, claiming that the system is actually aimed at Russia.

While Moscow has long opposed U.S. missile defenses in Europe, the timing of today's announcement is no accident. Mr. Medvedev and his political puppet master, Vladimir Putin, are quite aware of yesterday's election results in the United States. With the departure of George Bush, who championed the deployment, the Russians are mounting a challenge to his successor, who is opposed to "unproven" missile defense systems.

In some respects, the SS-26 movement to Kaliningrad is the first "shot across the bow" of the incoming administration. Moscow is waiting to see if Obama has "steel in his spine," and will stand up to a deliberate Russian provocation. So are our eastern European allies, who wonder if the new president will stand with them against the Russian bear.

On a related note, Iran is warning the U.S. "not to violate its airspace." Get ready for that 3 a.m phone call.
11915  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Coming Clusterfcuk on: November 06, 2008, 10:45:48 AM
**Impeach Obama, before it's too late!**

Stocks slide, Toyota warns of 'unprecedented' crisis   

Nov 6 04:22 AM US/Eastern

Stocks Fall As Investors Ponder Obama Presidency

Asia Shares Slide, Toyota Hit

   Toyota Motor slashed its profit forecast Thursday, warning the global auto industry faces an "unprecedented" crisis as Asian stocks tumbled on fears the US is sinking deeper towards recession.
The Japanese giant became the latest automaker to reveal plunging profits due to the financial crisis, following on the heels of BMW, Nissan and Honda.

Toyota , vying with General Motors for the title of the world's top automaker, cut its annual profit forecast by more than half after a terrible year so far.

It now expects a 68 percent plunge in net profit to 550 billion yen (5.6 billion dollars) -- the first drop in nine years.

"The financial crisis is negatively impacting the real economy worldwide, and the automotive markets, especially in developed countries, are contracting rapidly," Toyota executive vice president Mitsuo Kinoshita said.

"This is an unprecedented situation."

Elsewhere in the transport sector, European aircraft manufacturer Airbus warned it expects a sharp reduction in new orders in 2009 as the global economy slows.

Amid the gloomy news, Asian stock markets fell heavily. Japan's Nikkei stock index plunged 6.53 percent even before the Toyota warning, which came after the close of trade.

The drop wiped out gains seen a day earlier on hopes that US president-elect Barack Obama will get to work on fixing the world's largest economy in the face of the worst financial crisis in decades.

"Now that the event is over, investors are sobering up and looking at the economic gloom," said Mizuho Investors Securities broker Masatoshi Sato.

Seoul ended with a loss of 7.6 percent while Sydney shed 4.3 percent. Hong Kong shares were down 6.4 percent at midday.

The sharp falls came after the Dow Jones index slid 5.05 percent on Wall Street on Wednesday as investors braced for a gloomy economic ride after the euphoria of Obama's election victory faded.

"Dismal macroeconomic data and poor corporate results reminded investors that we are only at the start of a deep recession," Dariusz Kowalczyk, chief investment strategist at CFC Seymour in Hong Kong, wrote in a note.

The euro dropped to 1.2854 dollars in Tokyo afternoon trade, down from 1.2962 late Wednesday in New York. The dollar fell to 97.70 yen from 98.33.

Investors were anticipating further cuts to interest rates on Thursday by both the Bank of England (BoE) and the European Central Bank amid fears of recessions in Europe's biggest economies.

Some economists are even forecasting the BoE would follow up last month's emergency half-point reduction to 4.50 percent with a cut of 100 basis points.

In Japan, the lower house of parliament approved a plan to inject capital into ailing banks if needed to contain the fallout from the financial crisis.

Markets were also looking ahead to crisis talks on the global financial turmoil in Washington on November 15 between leaders of the Group of 20 rich countries and major developing economies.

Leaders will likely agree on an "action plan" including near-term steps to help fix the global economy, a senior US official said Wednesday.

As efforts to contain the financial crisis continued, the International Monetary Fund approved a 16.4 billion dollar loan aimed at rescuing Ukraine .

Europe's biggest economy, Germany , approved a stimulus package costing 23 billion euros (30 billion dollars) to pump up the ailing economy.

In the US, fresh data added to the gloom over the economic outlook. A report by the Institute for Supply Management showed activity in the services sector shrank more sharply than anticipated in October.

A survey showing the US private sector shed 157,000 jobs in October added to worries ahead of official figures due Friday that are expected to show a rise in the jobless rate from a five-year high of 6.1 percent in September.
11916  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Coming Clusterfcuk on: November 06, 2008, 10:38:01 AM
**If Barry-O was smart, he'd resign right now. He made history, now put someone who isn't a socialist novelty act in charge.**

Stocks extend decline as economic woes mount
Thursday November 6, 10:52 am ET
By Tim Paradis, AP Business Writer
Wall Street extends decline as jobless claims, retailers' sales fan recession worries

NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street recoiled again Thursday, sending stocks lower for a second straight day as new readings on retail sales and jobless claims fanned investors' worries that the economy is in recession.
New claims for unemployment benefits did dip by 4,000 to a seasonally adjusted level of 481,000, according to the Labor Department. But jobless claims above 400,000 are considered recessionary levels, and have run above that figure for 16 weeks. Also, long-term claims jumped to 3.84 million, the highest level in 25 years. The numbers arrive a day ahead of the key October jobs report, a widely watched barometer of the economy's health.

Meanwhile, retailers are releasing October sales figures that indicate consumers are pulling back their spending sharply. Wal-Mart Stores Inc. reported a better-than-expected 2.4 percent rise in October sales at stores open for at least a year, but investors are worried about other specialty retailers; Limited Brands Inc. and Gap Inc., for example, posted worse-than-expected sales drops.

In midmorning trading, the Dow Jones industrial average fell 169.17, or 1.85 percent, to 8,970.10.

Broader stock indicators also declined. The Standard & Poor's 500 index fell 20.54, or 2.16 percent, to 932.23, and the Nasdaq composite index fell 35.82, or 2.13 percent, to 1,645.82.

Stocks appeared to draw some support following interest rate cuts by central banks in Europe. The Bank of England slashed its key interest rate by a bold 1.5 percentage points Thursday; the Swiss Central Bank cut its own key rate by a surprising half-point; and the European Central Bank lowered its key rate by a half-point.

On Wednesday, Wall Street plunged as investors considered once again how deep and protracted a U.S. recession President-elect Barack Obama will face in January when he is sworn in. After a string of huge gains in stocks, jitters returned to the market, driving the Dow down nearly 500 points. All three major indexes dropped more than 5 percent.

A late Wednesday warning by Cisco Systems Inc. added to investors' nervousness and weighed on the technology-heavy Nasdaq. The world's largest maker of computer networking gear said orders fell off sharply last month, suggesting to the market that the weak economy and tight credit markets are taking a larger-than-expected toll on many companies. Cisco fell 49 cents, or 2.8 percent, to $16.90.

And in other troubling corporate news, Japanese automaker Toyota Motor Corp. reduced its annual earnings forecast Thursday to less than a third of what it was in previous fiscal year. Toyota tumbled $12.65, or 15.7 percent, to $67.72.

The dollar traded mixed against most other major currencies, while gold prices rose.

Light, sweet crude fell $4.27 to $61.03 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

Bank-to-bank lending rates fell for the 19th straight day, a sign that banks are becoming more willing to lend. The London Interbank Offered Rate, or Libor, for three-month dollar loans dipped to 2.39 percent from 2.51 percent.

The three-month Treasury bill, considered the ultimate safe asset, saw its yield dip further to 0.38 percent from 0.42 percent late Wednesday. In general, a lower yield means higher demand, but it is also affected by the federal funds rate.

In Asian trading, Japan's Nikkei index fell 6.53 percent, and Hong Kong's Hang Seng Index fell 7.08 percent. In afternoon trading in Europe, Britain's FTSE 100 fell 3.22 percent, Germany's DAX index fell 5.01 percent, and France's CAC-40 fell 3.73 percent.

New York Stock Exchange:

Nasdaq Stock Market:
11917  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Coming Clusterfcuk on: November 06, 2008, 10:34:15 AM
**It won't be long before that big glass of "Hopeandchange" flavored kool-aid starts tasting pretty bitter to the American public.**

U.S. Stocks Post Biggest Post-Election Drop on Economic Concern
By Elizabeth Stanton

Nov. 5 (Bloomberg) -- The stock market posted its biggest plunge following a presidential election as reports on jobs and service industries stoked concern the economy will worsen even as President-elect Barack Obama tries to stimulate growth.

Citigroup Inc. tumbled 14 percent and Bank of America Corp. lost 11 percent as the Standard & Poor's 500 Index and Dow Jones Industrial Average sank more than 5 percent. Nucor Corp., the largest U.S.-based steel producer, slid 10 percent after bigger rival ArcelorMittal doubled production cuts amid slowing demand. Boeing Co., the world's second-largest commercial planemaker, lost 6.9 percent after UBS AG forecast a 3 percent drop in global air traffic next year.

``We had an election yesterday; that doesn't mean the problems go away,'' said Kevin Rendino, a Plainsboro, New Jersey- based money manager at BlackRock Inc. who oversees $10 billion. ``We still have an economic slowdown.''

The S&P 500 tumbled 52.98 points, or 5.3 percent, to 952.77, erasing yesterday's 4.1 percent rally. The Dow retreated 486.01, or 5.1 percent, to 9,139.27. The Russell 2000 Index of small U.S. companies fell 5.7 percent to 514.64. The MSCI World Index of 23 developed markets decreased 2.5 percent to 982.98.

The slide halted an 18 percent rebound from the S&P 500's five-year low on Oct. 27. The benchmark for U.S. equities has lost more than 35 percent this year, the steepest annual plunge since 1937, and Obama will have to contend with an economy pummeled by the fastest contraction in manufacturing in 26 years and the lowest consumer confidence.

Biggest Rally Erased

The market's decline came a day after the biggest presidential Election Day gain since the New York Stock Exchange first opened for trading on a voting day in 1984.

The report by ADP Employer Services showed companies cut 157,000 jobs in October, the most since November 2002 when the U.S. was emerging from a recession. The Institute for Supply Management said service industries in the U.S., which make up 90 percent of the economy, contracted by the most on record.

About 1.3 billion shares changed hands on the NYSE, 11 percent less than the three-month daily average.

Citigroup lost $2.05 to $12.63 and Bank of America plunged $2.78 to $21.75. The S&P 500 Financials Index sank 8.8 percent after extending declines late in the day following Oppenheimer & Co. analyst Meredith Whitney's prediction on CNBC that the mortgage market will contract and more than $2 trillion in available credit-card lines will be pulled from the system.

Whitney also said potential loan modifications under an Obama administration will hurt banks and diminish their appetite for risk.

$6 Trillion Lost

The S&P 500 has lost about 39 percent since it peaked at 1,565.15 on Oct. 9, 2007, as the U.S. economy contracted 0.3 percent last quarter and credit-related losses and writedowns by global financial firms approached $700 billion. More than $6 trillion was erased from U.S. equities this year by the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.

Nucor sank $4.16 to $35.50. Luxembourg-based ArcelorMittal reported third-quarter profit that fell short of analyst estimates, said its global output will drop by more than 30 percent, and forecast fourth-quarter earnings will fall as much as 48 percent. The company's New York-registered shares slumped 22 percent to $24.88, their biggest retreat in seven years.

Boeing fell $3.67 to $49.55. Its share price, which rose 28 percent from Oct. 10 through yesterday, ``is at least six to nine months from bottoming and beginning to mover higher again,'' David E. Strauss, a New York-based analyst at UBS, wrote in a report. Aircraft deliveries may tumble 29 percent from 2009 to 2012, the analyst said.

`Continued Softening'

Textron Inc. lost $1.71, or 9.2 percent, to $16.93. The world's biggest business-jet maker through its Cessna unit reduced the number of Citation jets it plans to deliver next year, citing ``continued softening in the global economic environment.''

Stocks extended their retreat even as Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House of Representatives, said Democrats may seek two economic stimulus measures if President George W. Bush limits the size of a plan to be considered during the post-election ``lame- duck'' session. Obama's party captured at least 19 seats in the House and at least five in the Senate, expanding its congressional majority.

General Growth Properties Inc. tumbled almost 50 percent to $2.25 for the biggest drop in the S&P 500. The U.S. mall owner that has lost more than 90 percent of its market value on concern it won't be able to refinance debt coming due this year reported a wider third-quarter loss and suspended its quarterly dividend.

Bond Insurers

MBIA Inc. and Ambac Financial Group Inc. slumped after the bond insurers posted wider losses than analysts estimated. MBI fell 22 percent to $8.16. Ambac, dropped from the S&P 500 in June, fell 41 percent to $2.01. Slumping credit markets forced the companies to increase reserves for claims.

Pioneer Natural Resources lost 15 percent to $24.79. The oil and natural-gas producer in North America and Africa reported third-quarter earnings that missed analyst estimates and said it will cut drilling activity.

Sara Lee Corp. slid 14 percent to $10.20. The maker of frozen cakes and Jimmy Dean sausages said full-year profit will be less than it previously estimated because of falling foreign currencies and waning demand in Europe.

Marsh & McLennan Cos. fell 12 percent to $26.06. The world's second-biggest insurance broker said profit dropped 78 percent in the third quarter amid the slowing U.S. economy and price declines for commercial coverage and reinsurance.

Earnings Season

Most companies in the S&P 500 have managed to increase profits even as the economy slows. Of the 386 companies that reported third-quarter results so far, 232 posted higher earnings than in the year-earlier period. Still, profits are down 7.4 percent on average after accounting for losses at financial companies.

Medco Health Solutions Inc. climbed 9.1 percent to $41.47 for the biggest of only 13 advances in the S&P 500. A surge in use of generic and mail-order prescription drugs fueled a 38 percent increase in third-quarter profit at the largest U.S. drug benefits manager.

Molson Coors Brewing Co. gained 8.3 percent to $41.78. The third-largest U.S. beer maker reported market-share gains in Canada and the U.K. and said it expects to achieve total cost savings from its joint U.S. venture with SABMiller Plc six months early.

Chesapeake Energy Corp. climbed 8.2 percent to $24.83 on speculation it will be acquired by BP Plc.

General Motors Corp. slipped 16 cents, or 2.8 percent, to $5.56. GM, the biggest U.S. automaker, needs government aid because ``time is very short'' to stop its collapse, Roger Altman, an adviser to the automaker and Obama, said in an interview.

Recession Rallies

The S&P 500 Index may be on the cusp of a rally by Inauguration Day, based on the speed of its tumble from last year's peak and the time it took stocks to gain before recessions ended in 1975, 1982 and 1991, data compiled by Bloomberg show. This year's plunge in stocks suggests that equity investors anticipate an economic contraction as severe as the one that began under Richard Nixon that will end in July.

The S&P 500's slump since last year's high is the steepest for a comparable period since the gauge fell 43 percent in the 13 months ended in October 1974, Bloomberg data show.

1970s Recession

The economy then was mired in a recession that lasted 16 months and ended in March 1975, five months after the equity market began its rebound. During the recessions of 1982 and 1991, the S&P 500 began to climb four months and five months before the economy started to recover, respectively.

Based on the market's history of anticipating economic recoveries, the S&P 500 may embark on its next bull market in February, about a month after Obama's inauguration on Jan. 20.

Stocks gained yesterday after the 17th straight decline in a key interest rate, a sign that as much as $3 trillion of emergency funds provided by governments to resuscitate bank lending are working. The London interbank offered rate, or Libor, that banks charge each other for three month loans in dollars fell again today to the lowest level since December 2004.

To contact the reporter on this story: Elizabeth Stanton in New York at

Last Updated: November 5, 2008 20:19
11918  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Coming Clusterfcuk on: November 06, 2008, 10:27:48 AM
**The start of the great Obama-depression. Watch capital flee his "soak the rich" socialism!**

RPT-FACTBOX-U.S. stocks on the day after presidential elections
Thu Nov 6, 2008 3:25am IST

 NEW YORK, Nov 5 (Reuters) - Wall Street hardly delivered a
rousing welcome to President-elect Barack Obama on Wednesday,
dropping by the largest margin on record for a day following a U.S.
presidential contest.
 The slide more than wiped out the previous day's advance, the
largest Election Day rally ever for U.S. stocks.
 The following table shows the percentage rise or decline in the
Dow Jones industrial average .DJI, Standard & Poor's 500 index
.SPX and Nasdaq composite index .IXIC on the day after a U.S
presidential election and who won the Election Day vote.
Year   Dow    S&P    Nasdaq  President elect
2008  -5.05  -5.27   -5.53   Barack Obama
2004  +1.01  +1.12   +0.98   George W. Bush
2000  -0.41  -1.58   -5.39   No decision: G.W. Bush v Al Gore*
1996  +1.59  +1.46   +1.34   William Clinton
1992  -0.91  -0.67   +0.16   William Clinton
1988  -0.43  -0.66   -0.29   George H. W. Bush
1984  -0.88  -0.73   -0.32   Ronald Reagan
1980  +1.70  +1.77   +1.49   Ronald Reagan
1976  -0.99  -1.14   -1.12   James Carter
1972  -0.11  -0.55   -0.39   Richard Nixon
1968  +0.34  +0.16    ---    Richard Nixon
1964  -0.19  -0.05    ---    Lyndon Johnson
1960  +0.77  +0.44    ---    John Kennedy
1956  -0.85  -1.03    ---    Dwight Eisenhower
1952  +0.40  +0.28    ---    Dwight Eisenhower
1948  -3.85  -4.15    ---    Harry Truman
1944  -0.27   0.00    ---    Franklin Roosevelt
1940  -2.39  -3.14    ---    Franklin Roosevelt
1936  +2.26  +1.40    ---    Franklin Roosevelt
1932  -4.51  -2.67    ---    Franklin Roosevelt
1928  +1.20  +1.77    ---    Herbert Hoover
1924  +1.17   ---     ---    Calvin Coolidge
1920  -0.57   ---     ---    Warren Harding
1916  -0.35   ---     ---    Woodrow Wilson
1912  +1.83   ---     ---    Woodrow Wilson
1908  +2.38   ---     ---    William Taft
1904  +1.30   ---     ---    Theodore Roosevelt
1900  +3.33   ---     ---    William McKinley
1896  +4.54   ---     ---    William McKinley
* George W. Bush ultimately was determined the winner of the 2000
Source: Reuters EcoWin
11919  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: November 06, 2008, 09:39:05 AM
Once he entered the spotlight, he got marketed as the "post-racial" candidate, despite his being a creature of Chicago racial politics. Of course, the MSM couldn't be bothered to examine this.
11920  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Vote Fraud (ACORN et al) on: November 06, 2008, 08:55:18 AM
I bet ACORN is pissed that it worked so hard to fix the election when it turns out it didn't have to. 
11921  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Palin phenomenon on: November 06, 2008, 08:53:06 AM
Backbiting from McCain campaign officials scrambling to cover their own asses. Sadly not unusual for failed campaigns. Noticed that it's from unnamed sources.
11922  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Intel Matters on: November 06, 2008, 08:49:05 AM
This is the bright spot in this whole mess. Let's just see what Barry-O does as commander in chief now that the weight of protecting this country is on his shoulders. Barry can release every detainee and shut down every federal agency from using the PATRIOT act. I know he voted to reauthorize it. So, where are all the leftist screamers now?
11923  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: November 06, 2008, 08:37:12 AM
I think a "Barry O'Malley" would have gotten steamrolled by Hillary without her even bothering to learn his name. He wouldn't have made it out of NH.
11924  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Libertarian Issues on: November 06, 2008, 08:31:19 AM
Keep in mind that your cell phone is for all intents and purposes a microphone, transmitter and GPS beacon wrapped into one. It doesn't take an MIT trained engineer to see the potential surveillance aspects inherent in such a device.
11925  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Libertarian Issues on: November 06, 2008, 08:28:36 AM
No, but it pretty much exists already. Not quite as formalized, but your ISP knows where you go and what you're doing pretty much anyway and that can be subpeonaed or accessed via a search warrant.
11926  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: November 05, 2008, 11:42:53 PM
Probably as hard as it is for you to stop telling lies about Michelle Malkin. Yes?
11927  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Coming Clusterfcuk on: November 05, 2008, 11:41:26 PM
I suggest you retract your dishonorable lies about Michelle Malkin. As far as losing. I didn't lose, America did. This will become evident in time.
11928  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Coming Clusterfcuk on: November 05, 2008, 10:56:26 PM

I suggest you act like a man for probably the first time in your life and address your unfounded and dishonorable smear of Michelle Malkin.
11929  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: November 05, 2008, 10:54:45 PM
Ahhhh GM "YOU LOST, SUCK IT UP..." wasn't my quote, it was from another of your fans.    grin

I have no problem with being told "You lost, suck it up". I have a problem with you, JDN. You lack any integrity. You smear and can't back it up. Let's compare that to SB_Mig, who can defend his points and debate honestly.
11930  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: November 05, 2008, 10:50:54 PM
World leaders' quotes on Obama election win
Wed Nov 5, 2008 5:56am EST

LONDON (Reuters) - Democrat Barack Obama won an extraordinary two-year struggle for the White House, beating Republican John McCain and becoming the first black president in U.S. history.

Following are quotes from world leaders:


"Your victory is an inspiration for us. That which appeared impossible has become possible."


"Europe which is celebrating (the victory of) Obama must know that Europe be will be called on to be a producer of security and no longer merely a consumer. I think Obama will rightly call on us to take our responsibilities more seriously."


"In this case hope has won over prejudice -- this is good for the United States and the world as a whole."


"The news we are receiving on the results of the American presidential election shows that everyone has the right to hope for a freshening of U.S. approaches to all the most complex issues, including foreign policy and therefore relations with the Russian Federation as well."


"I think you will hear a lot of discussion and goals and slogans during the election campaigns. When there is a reality check I think any U.S. president has to look very hard at the facts on the ground."

**Translation: Please don't abandon us and our families to mass graves like previous democrats did to the Vietnamese.**


"Israel expects the close strategic cooperation with the new administration, president and Congress will continue along with the continued strengthening of the special and unshakeable special relationship between the two countries."

**Translation: Please don't abandon us and our families to mass graves like previous democrats did to the Vietnamese.**


"We congratulate (Obama) on the confidence of the American people in him and we hope that he will change the policy of the United States toward the Middle East and toward the crimes which are happening in Afghanistan and Somalia, in other words that he adopts a just policy that restores to America its natural position of respect for humankind and democracy."

**Allah Akbar! The kufir are weakening in their resolve and our jihad is winning!**


"Believers are praying that God will enlighten him and help him in his great responsibility, which is enormous because of the global importance of the United States...We hope Obama can fulfil the expectations and hopes that many have in him."


"Your election marks a new chapter in the remarkable history of the United States. For long, the ideas of democracy, liberty and freedom espoused by the United States has been a source of inspiration...I hope that under your dynamic leadership, the United States will continue to be a source of global peace and new ideas for humanity."


"Your extraordinary journey to the White House will inspire people not only in your country but also around the world."


"We don't expect any change through our previous experience with the Democrats ... When it comes to foreign policy there is no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats."


"The necessity for cooperation between Europe and the United States is bigger than ever. Only by close transatlantic cooperation can we face the world's challenges."


"With the world in turmoil and doubt, the American people, faithful to the values that have always defined America's identity, have expressed with force their faith in progress and the future. At a time when we must face huge challenges together, your election has raised enormous hope in France, in Europe and beyond."


"I applaud the American people for their great decision and I hope that this new administration in the United States of America, and the fact of the massive show of concern for human beings and lack of interest in race and color while electing the president, will go a long way in bringing the same values to the rest of world sooner or later."


"Barack Obama ran an inspirational campaign, energizing politics with his progressive values and his vision for the future. I know Barack Obama and we share many values. We both have determination to show that government can act to help people fairly through these difficult times facing the global economy."


"We the Kenyan people are immensely proud of your Kenyan roots. Your victory is not only an inspiration to millions of people all over the world, but it has special resonance with us here in Kenya."


"We need to change the current crisis into a new opportunity. We need a new deal for a new world. I sincerely hope that with the leadership of President Obama, the United States of America will join forces with Europe to drive this new deal. For the benefit of our societies, for the benefit of the world."


"The Chinese Government and I myself have always attached great importance to China-U.S. relations. In the new historic era, I look forward to working together with you to continuously strengthen dialogue and exchanges between our two countries."

**We're going to roll you like a drunken sailor.**


"I offer you my heartfelt congratulations on your historic victory in the presidential election.

"The world faces significant challenges at the start of your term. I am convinced that Europe and the United States will work closely and in a spirit of mutual trust together to confront new dangers and risks and will seize the opportunities presented by our global world."


"The Japan-U.S. alliance is key to Japanese diplomacy and it is the foundation for peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific region. With President-elect Obama, I will strengthen the Japan-U.S. alliance further and work toward resolving global issues such as the world economy, terror and the environment."


"Africa, which today stands proud of your achievements, can only but look forward to a fruitful working relationship with you both at a bilateral and multilateral levels in our endeavor to create a better world for all who live in it."


"I look forward to meeting with the President-elect so that we can continue to strengthen the special bond that exists between Canada and the United States."


"Senator Obama's message of hope is not just for America's future, it is also a message of hope for the world as well. A world which is now in many respects fearful for its future."


"Senator Obama will be taking office at a critical juncture. There are many pressing challenges facing the international community, including the global financial crisis and global warming. We look forward to working closely with President-elect Obama and his team to address these challenges."


Indonesia especially hopes that the U.S., under new leadership, will stand in the front and take real action to overcome the global financial crisis, especially since the crisis was triggered by the financial conditions in the U.S."


"We welcome his triumph in the same vein that we place the integrity of the US electoral process and the choices made by the American people in high regard. We likewise note the making of history with the election of Senator Obama as the first African-American president of the United States."



"The president-elect has promised changes in policies. There is a capacity for the improvement of ties between America and Iran if Obama pursues his campaign promises, including not confronting other countries as Bush did in Iraq and Afghanistan, and also concentrating on America's state matters and removing the American people's concerns."

**Allah Akbar! The kufir are weakening in their resolve and our jihad is winning!**


"We hope the president-elect in the United States will stay the course and would continue the U.S. engagement in the peace process without delay. We hope the two-state vision would be transferred from a vision to a realistic track immediately."

**Allah Akbar! The kufir are weakening in their resolve and our jihad is winning! Death to Israel!**

(Compiled by Asia Desk)
11931  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Coming Clusterfcuk on: November 05, 2008, 10:25:54 PM

Address your disreputable lies about Michelle Malkin before you pollute any other topic.
11932  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: November 05, 2008, 10:24:06 PM

You are a perfect example of the **EDITED**

Guess you don't have have the minimum integrity to try to back up your baseless smear. Your lack of character is evident to all.
11933  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: November 05, 2008, 09:19:22 PM

A good example of the "re-energized base".
11934  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: November 05, 2008, 09:09:58 PM
Hey JDN,

Why don't you address your unfounded smears of Michelle Malkin before you post anything else? Remember your "unabashed dislike for all blacks" claim? Back it up or shut up.
11935  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Sharia 101 on: November 05, 2008, 08:10:21 PM

Nov 5, 12:48
A Necessary Reminder of What the Jihadists Are About

Every once in a while, it is necessary to step back from the abstract world of ideas and see what the ideas actually mean in people’s lives. That is particularly true as the new administration enters and has to think about what the radical Islamist agenda really means to those who live under it.

It is also worth noting the little-noticed support some of the worst parts of the Islamist agenda get from so-called moderate and mainstream Islamist groups who are tied to the Muslim Brotherhood.

Nothing could be a more stark reminder than the story of the young Somali woman who was stoned to death for adultery after reporting to authorities that she had been raped.

Amnesty International reported that partway through the stoning nurses checked whether Aisha was still alive. They pulled her body out of the ground to ascertain she was still breathing before the stoning continued.

A Unicef statement said: ‘She sought protection from the authorities, who then accused her of adultery and sentenced her to death. ‘A child was victimised twice – first by the perpetrators of the rape and then by those responsible for administering justice.’

This is what the Taliban means when it talks of sharia law and what has in mind for the rest of the world. This is why the idea of engaging in talks with the Taliban over the future of Afghanistan is such a dangerous idea.

The jihadists cannot compromise and have already demonstrated, during their barbaric governance of Afghanistan from 1996-2001 that they are cannot be part of a civilized coalition to govern anything.

It is worth remembering that the Muslim Brotherhood, including its supposedly enlightened leaders like Tariq Ramadan, do not condemn this barbaric form of justice. Why? Because they can’t without disowning the same general goals the Ikhwan share with the jihadist: A world under sharia law where this is not only condoned but mandatory.

Here is the nicest possible description of Ramadan’s stand, taken from a sympathetic article in Foreign Affairs magazine.

In front of six million viewers, Ramadan refused to call for a ban on the stoning of adulterers, arguing instead for a “moratorium.” This apparently semantic distinction reveals Ramadan’s reformist logic: it is a way to stop capital punishment immediately while engaging its proponents on their terms. Ramadan concedes that stoning may be supported in part of the Muslim world and by the instructions of law books. But such punishment, he argues, should be suspended while a debate is held over the conditions of its actual application.

For some critics, this kind of reasoning is unacceptably ambiguous: Ramadan will not categorically denounce stoning! But by calling for a moratorium, Ramadan avoids the Islamic equivalent of excommunication.

So, one would be excommunicated from the Muslim faith, or at least the Muslim Brotherhood, if one does not denounce stoning. Yet we are repeatedly told by U.S. Muslim Brotherhood groups that they are mainstream and moderate. How do they reconcile these opposing statements? They don’t. They simply denounce those who raise the questions as Islamophobes and racists.

It is worth remembering that when one engages with groups who cannot disown criminal and barbaric conduct, one legitimizes them. The Obama camp would do well to keep this in mind as the Muslim Brotherhood front organizations come knocking on the door of the new administration, as they will, presenting themselves as enlightened and moderate forces for good.

posted by Douglas Farah
11936  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: November 05, 2008, 07:56:56 PM
**Yes, the "world" celebrates, indeed.**

Hamas praises Obama win as 'historic victory for world'
Terrorists drafting letter of congrats to be sent directly to president-elect
Posted: November 05, 2008
12:16 pm Eastern

By Aaron Klein
© 2008 WorldNetDaily

JERUSALEM – The Hamas terrorist group believes the election of Sen. Barack Obama is an "historic victory" for the world and an opportunity to change U.S. foreign policy toward engagement with America's foes, Ahmed Yousef, Hamas' chief political adviser in the Gaza Strip, told WND in an exclusive interview today.

Yousef, speaking by cell phone from Gaza, said Hamas is drafting a letter of congratulation to be sent tomorrow directly to Obama. He said the current draft of the letter praises the president-elect as "another John F. Kennedy, or great Roosevelt."

"We want to be one of the first to congratulate him," Yousef said.

"This is an historic day, a turning point. I think this is the very first time in history that one country's election concerned everyone everywhere all over [the] world," said Yousef. "Everybody is looking forward to Obama's change, for a change in the U.S. policy, particularly in the Israeli-Palestinian equation, which is the mother of all conflicts."

Yousef told WND he believes an Obama administration will be more willing to engage in dialogue with Hamas.

He said Obama's job will be to "restore America's dignity in the world and put an end to the wars in the region."

Yousef took the occasion to blast the policies of President Bush, commenting he hopes "that after January the Bush administration will not be heard from again."

"We are sick of wars and conflict," the Hamas official said.

Yousef seemed aware his comments and Hamas' expected letter to Obama may generate some negative publicity for Obama, but he said he feels it important to "reach out and to express our thoughts and engage."

"I praised him six months ago, some people tried to use that against him. But I knew he would win. Like everyone else, we expected this important victory," he said.

Yousef was referring to an interview he gave to WND and WABC Radio in April in which he praised Obama and then found his comments had fueled a firestorm of accusations in the presidential campaign.

In April, Yousef stated he hoped Obama would become president and compared the Illinois senator to President John F. Kennedy.

"We like Mr. Obama, and we hope that he will win the election," Yousef told WND at the time.

"I hope Mr. Obama and the Democrats will change the political discourse. ... I do believe [Obama] is like John Kennedy, a great man with a great principle. And he has a vision to change America to make it in a position to lead the world community, but not with humiliation and arrogance," Yousef said.

Sen. John McCain repeatedly used Yousef's remarks to criticize Obama's foreign policy.

Obama has condemned Hamas as a terrorist group that should be isolated until it recognizes Israel. He claimed McCain was using the Hamas comments as a "smear."

Hamas is responsible for scores of suicide bombings, rocket attacks, shootings and cross-border raids. Its official charter calls for the murder of Jews and destruction of Israel. Just today, Hamas members took responsibility for launching dozens of rockets from Gaza aimed at Jewish civilian population centers.

To interview Aaron Klein, contact M. Sliwa Public Relations by e-mail, or call 973-272-2861 or 212-202-4453.
11937  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: November 05, 2008, 07:07:59 PM
Quote from: G M on Today at 10:28:04 AM
...Our first "affirmative action" president will have people wistfully longing for W...

Do you really believe this !?! "Affirmative  actions", people voted for him BECAUSE he is black!!!! PLEASE!!!! rolleyes

I guess its that white liberal guilt which explains NY, NJ,CT,MA,ME what about the rest of the country?


**Would a "Barry O'Malley" with the same lack of qualifications be the president-elect right now?**
11938  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: November 05, 2008, 07:05:11 PM
Six months to a year and the public will want the adults in charge again.

What a sad statement on your part. And how incredibly immature.

**Try hardnosed pragmatism.**

Had McCain won with 62% of the youth vote you'd be jumping for joy. The energy and enthusiasm that goes with this win carries beyond age, race, or party. I have NEVER seen people in the street, around the world, celebrating a presidential win.

**No one was happier than our enemies. I'm sure that there were cries of "Allah Akbar" in the caves along the Afghanistan/Pakistan border and the remains of the AQ cells in Iraq.**

A win like this re-energizes the base, which in turn gets more people involved, which in turn means more people wanting to work for their country, state, and yes, even government. When is the last time THE WORLD was excited about a presidential win. My god man, that means that government actually want to talk to us again, do business with us again, actually like us again. And you want to complain? Please.

**The ugly collision with reality will drain the delusion from the Obama Kool-aid drinkers.**

People were tired of the b.s., tired of the pessimism, tired of the same old same old. And they voted to do something about it. Do they know what is going to happen? No. But they are willing to take a chance on anything but the usual. The election results show that.

**Sure. Let's go with the novelty act. Government as a reality TV show. Let's vote the old warrior off and go with the charming, good looking guy. Qualifications be dammned.**

The Republicans blew it, and in the process quite possibly fractured their party beyond repair. They have a lot of work to do, and the usual negative attacks and rants aren't going to work anymore.  McCain got his a** handed to him. By a black man. With a funny name. And not only are people o.k. with that, they are HAPPY about it.

**Like I said, we'll see in 6 months to a year how happy everyone is with this selection.**

The demographic breakdowns that are starting to come in from this election are showing that across the board EVERYONE wanted someone else to be in charge. Not just the "young and naive"

Deal with the loss. Don't be a sore loser.

**In the big picture, I could care less about the republican party. My concern is the future of this nation. We face a nuclear jihadist Iran because of Jimmy Carter's weakness. In the midst of a war for our survival, we go with the sleazy machine politician from Chicago with NO accomplishments to his record, aside from avoiding being held accountable for the ring of terrorists, bigots and America-hating leftists that make up his social circle.**

Or to quote one of my best friends (and a staunch conservative) from both the 2000 and 2004 elections:


**We all lost. You just don't know it yet. Maybe I'm wrong. I guess I'll wait for 1/21/2009 to see the rainbows, unicorns and gumdrops as all the bad things disappear.**
11939  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: US-Russia on: November 05, 2008, 10:37:06 AM

Medvedev Confronts U.S. on Missiles After Obama Win (Update1)
By Sebastian Alison and Lyubov Pronina

Nov. 5 (Bloomberg) -- Russian leader Dmitry Medvedev said he would deploy new missiles in Europe, confronting the U.S. hours after Barack Obama won the American presidential election.

Medvedev said he would place a short-range Iskander missile system in Russia's exclave of Kaliningrad, wedged between Poland and Lithuania, to ``neutralize'' a planned U.S. missile-defense system ``if necessary,'' Medvedev said. A radio-jamming installation in Kaliningrad will also be aimed at elements of the U.S. system in Poland and the Czech Republic, he said.

In the annual state-of-the-nation address today in the Kremlin, Medvedev avoided mentioning Obama while highlighting areas of tension between the two countries. Russian-U.S. ties are at their frostiest since the end of the Cold War, frayed by the planned missile shield, the war in Georgia and the U.S. push to admit Georgia and Ukraine to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

``This is a warning to Obama -- a bright, clear warning -- that tough negotiations are ahead,'' Alexander Rahr, a Russia expert at the German Council on Foreign Relations in Berlin, said by telephone. Medvedev's ``fist-waving'' on the missile shield may be premature, since Obama has shown less support for the system than President George W. Bush, Rahr said.

Missile Shield

While Obama's positions on the war in Georgia and NATO's eastward expansion are similar to those of the Republican candidate, John McCain, and Bush, he has indicated greater flexibility on the missile shield.

Obama said he'll back the plan ``if it works and if it can be financially feasible,'' Michael McFaul, a Russia specialist at Stanford University who advised Obama during the campaign, said in an interview last month.

While announcing Russia's long-promised military response to the U.S. missile shield, Medvedev also expressed hope that Obama, unlike Bush, would engage with Russia on issues of common interest.

``Progress in Russian-American cooperation would be of critical importance,'' Medvedev said, adding that relations are going through a difficult period.

Medvedev said before the election that he was prepared to work with any new leader in Washington, though he expressed a veiled preference for Obama: ``It would be easier to work with people with a modern outlook, rather than those whose eyes are turned back to the past,'' he said. He congratulated Obama on his election victory by telegram, the Kremlin said.

Financial Crisis

The Russian leader renewed his criticism of the U.S. for the global financial crisis, saying that U.S. failure to coordinate its economic policy with other countries allowed a ``local'' crisis to cause ``a fall on the markets of the whole planet.'' He also said the U.S. provoked the war between Russia and Georgia in August, a position he had voiced before.

Medvedev chose the day when global attention was focused on the U.S. to announce a number of sweeping changes in domestic policy, including the extension of the Russian president's term in office to six years from four.

Russian presidents are now limited to two consecutive four- year terms. Putin, as president from 2000 until May of this year, strengthened the office by centralizing power. He became Medvedev's prime minister, and will be eligible to run in the next presidential contest.

Term Extension

``Increasing the term is timely,'' Finance Minister Alexei Kudrin told reporters after Medvedev's speech in Moscow today. ``It will allow the economy to work in a more stable manner. Six years is a good term.''

Medvedev said members of the State Duma, the lower house of parliament, should have their terms extended to five years from four, and that the government should report to parliament on an annual basis.

On the global financial crisis, Medvedev said the U.S., the European Union and the so-called BRIC countries -- Brazil, Russia, India and China -- must work together to create an economic system that will be ``more fair and more secure.'' He added that ``we must radically reform the political and economic systems. Russia, at all events, will insist on this.''

Medvedev travels to Washington on Nov. 15 for a summit on the financial crisis. Presidential spokeswoman Natalya Timakova said last week that no decision had been made on whether Medvedev would meet the new president during his visit.

`Barbaric Aggression'

His calls for a new global order come after the worst month for Russian investors in a decade. The 50-stock RTS Index dropped 36 percent in October, the biggest monthly decline since the government devalued the ruble and defaulted on domestic debt in 1998. Investors have withdrawn about $140 billion from Russia in the last three months, according to BNP Paribas SA.

Medvedev began his address in the Kremlin by blaming the U.S. for Russia's five-day war with Georgia in August, which followed attempts by President Mikheil Saakashvili to take by force the breakaway region of South Ossetia.

``The barbaric aggression against South Ossetia'' was encouraged by the U.S. and Russia's military response was used by NATO as an excuse to send warships to the Black Sea, Medvedev said.

To contact the reporter on this story: Sebastian Alison in Moscow at; Lyubov Pronina in Moscow at

Last Updated: November 5, 2008 09:02 EST
11940  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Political Rants on: November 05, 2008, 09:28:04 AM
Six months to a year and the public will want the adults in charge again. Our first "affirmative action" president will have people wistfully longing for W.
11941  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: ACORN on: November 03, 2008, 07:25:33 AM

Falsified registrations become votes
By: John Fund
November 2, 2008 09:38 PM EST

The liberal "community organizing" group ACORN became a campaign issue last month after Nevada's Democratic attorney general and its Democratic secretary of state teamed up to conduct a highly visible raid of the group's Las Vegas offices. They seized files on what could be thousands of fraudulent voter registrations.

After ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, complained the raid was a "stunt" designed to hinder its efforts at minority registration, Larry Lomax, the chief elections officer in Las Vegas, responded that the group's claims it had extensive quality controls to catch fraudulent registrations were "pathetic." He noted that ACORN had hired 59 inmates from a work-release program at a nearby prison and that some inmates who had been convicted of identity theft had been made supervisors. That led some local wags to joke that at least ACORN was hiring specialists to do their work.

ACORN's second line of defense has been that fraudulent registrations can't turn into fraudulent votes, as if the felony of polluting voter lists was somehow not all that serious. But that defense goes only a short distance. "How would you know if people using fake names had cast votes in states without strict ID laws?" says GOP Indiana Secretary of State Todd Rokita, who this year won a major Supreme Court case upholding his state's photo identification law. "It's almost impossible to detect and once the fraudulent voter leaves the precinct or casts an absentee ballot, that vote is thrown in with other secret ballots there's no way to trace it."

Anita MonCrief, an ACORN whistle-blower who worked for both it and its Project Vote registration affiliate from 2005 until early this year, agrees. "It's ludicrous to say that fake registrations can't become fraudulent votes," she told me. "I assure you that if you can get them on the rolls you can get them to vote, especially using absentee ballots." MonCrief, a 29-year old University of Alabama graduate who wanted to become part of the civil rights movement, worked as a strategic consultant for ACORN as well as a development associate with Project Vote and sat in on meetings with the national staffs of both groups. She has given me documents that back up many of her statements, including one that indicates that the goal of ACORN's New Mexico affiliate was that only 40 percent of its submitted registrations had to be valid.

MonCrief also told me that some ACORN affiliates had a conscious strategy of flooding voter registration offices with suspect last-minute forms in part to create confusion and chaos that would make it more likely suspect voters would be allowed to cast ballots by overworked officials. Nate Toller, who worked on ACORN registration drives and headed an ACORN campaign against Wal-Mart in California until 2006, agrees. "There's no quality control on purpose, no checks and balances," he told me.

There are already documented examples of fraudulent registrations being converted into fraudulent votes in Ohio, where ACORN and other groups were active. Darrell Nash, an ACORN registration worker, submitted an illegal form for himself and then cast a paper ballot during the state's "early voting" period.

Franklin County prosecutor Ron O'Brien also cracked down in the case of 13 out-of-state registrants who came to Ohio to register voters in Columbus for the group Vote From Home. The group all lived out of the same rented 1,175-square-foot house in Ohio, registered to vote and then most of them either cast early voting ballots or submitted applications for absentee ballots before leaving the state. They have agreed to have all of their ballots canceled in exchange for the prosecutor's decision not to file charges.

The Columbus Dispatch reported last month that "none of them seems to have ties to Ohio" — and apparently had no intention of staying there. One has even moved back to England, where he is a student. It is illegal in almost all states to vote somewhere that is not your permanent residence.

The owner of the house the fraudulent voters stayed at is also under investigation. He has voted in Ohio even though he has lived and worked in New York for the past four years.

Many are concerned that other fraudulent votes could be cast in Ohio.

Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner admits that some 200,000 newly registered Ohio voters have been flagged by her office because their names, addresses, driver's license numbers, and/or Social Security numbers don't match other state or federal records. She is refusing to release the information on those registrants to county election boards that have requested them for the purpose of running further checks. Ms. Brunner was elected in 2006 with the support of ACORN, and indeed her campaign consultant that year was Karyn Gillette, who happened to be MonCrief's immediate superior at ACORN's Project Vote.

"I'd be very suspicious of what is going on in Ohio," MonCrief told me.

Other states provide other examples. Marybeth Brehany of Sioux City, Iowa, filed a sworn affidavit stating that she has discovered that several individuals unknown to her had registered to vote at her address. One of them, a David Loepp, had already requested and received an absentee ballot at his new address in, of all places, Rome, Italy. A 2005 Tennessee state Senate race was voided after evidence of voting by felons, nonresidents and the deceased who had been registered illegally. A Washington State Superior Court judge found that the state's 2004 gubernatorial race, which Democrat Christine Gregoire won by 133 votes, had included at least 1,678 illegal votes.

Perhaps the clearest look at how fraudulent registrations can be converted into votes comes from Wisconsin. Earlier this year, the Milwaukee Police Department's Special Investigation Unit released a stunning 67-page report detailing an "illegal organized attempt to influence the outcome" of the 2004 presidential election.

It noted many documented cases of staffers for a presidential campaign and an allied 527 group who illegally voted. Those involved in the scheme "represent multiple levels of both the organizations, from upper management to the street level canvassers." The task force report found many ineligible voters had cast ballots, ineligible felons not only had voted but also worked at the polls, transient college students had cast illegal votes along with day-trippers from nearby Chicago, and homeless voters may well have voted more than once.

The Milwaukee police report explained just how easy it is to cast an illegal vote without ever being detected., "Michael A. Smith can become Mike Smith, M.A. Smith, or Mickey Smith, depending on the person reviewing the Same Day registration card, and unless a specific allegation is made against one of those name variants, the new name would just be added to the overall database. Even if the new system were capable of discerning the differences in recorded names, the finding would not be discovered until after any multiple ballots had been cast and recorded." Indeed, the task force found that 1,100 registration cards filled in by voters were declared invalid or untraceable by election officials.

Another way that fraudulent registrations can be converted into illegal votes is when groups like ACORN either purposely or recklessly sign up visitors from out-of-state or felons who are ineligible to vote. The New York Daily News reported in August, 2004 on how some 46,000 New Yorkers are registered to vote in both the city and Florida, what it called a "shocking finding" because it "found that between 400 and 1,000 registered voters have voted twice in at least one election, a federal offense punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine," and noted that "efforts to prevent people from registering in more than one state rely mostly on the honor system."

Last month, the Fort Lauderdale Sun Sentinel reported that some 5,000 felons who do not have the right to vote have apparently voted in recent elections in Florida. Their illegal registrations turned into actual votes. The Miami Herald and Palm Beach Post had similar findings in May 2001 on the presidential election held the year previously. Reporters have found that that the number of illegal felon registrations that were cast that year was greater than the number of valid voters dropped from the voter rolls and thus blocked from voting. The Florida presidential vote — and the presidency — was decided in 2000 by only 537 votes.

Even if the problem of voter fraud caused by voter impersonation isn't as serious as some fear, Stuart Taylor of the National Journal notes that "polls show voters increasingly distrust the integrity of the electoral process." He also cites a 2006 NBC/Wall Street Journal nationwide poll which found that, by 80 percent to 7 percent, those surveyed supported voters showing "a valid photo identification." The idea had overwhelming support among all races and income groups.

That sweeping support helps explain why, in 2005, 18 of 21 members of a bipartisan federal commission headed by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker came out in support of photo ID requirements more stringent than Indiana's. "Voters in nearly 100 democracies use a photo identification card without fear of infringement on their rights," the commission stated.

Carter feels strongly about voter fraud. In his book, "Turning Point," he wrote of his race for Georgia state Senate in 1962, which involved a corrupt local sheriff who had cast votes for the dead. It took a recount and court intervention before Carter was declared the winner.

He and other supporters of stricter safeguards to protect voter integrity recognize there are two civil rights in play here. One is the right to cast a ballot without fear or intimidation or artificial barriers. We fought a great struggle in the 1960s to eliminate poll taxes, literacy tests and pass a Voting Rights Act to protect the right to vote. But all Americans have another civil right — the right not to have their ballot canceled out by someone who shouldn't be voting, is voting twice or may not even exist. You can be just as surely disenfranchised by someone canceling out your vote as if someone blocked your entry into a courthouse door where a polling place was located.

As Larry Sabato, director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia, puts it: "From voter fraud to election chicanery of all kinds, America teeters on the edge of scandal every November. Unless we take serious steps at reform, sooner or later we're headed for more disasters as bad or worse than what we saw in Florida in 2000."

That's why the activities of groups like ACORN have to be taken seriously, and why a robust debate needs to be held on how we can protect both the civil right to vote and the civil right to be protected from voter fraud.

John Fund is a columnist with the Wall Street Journal's website and the author of "Stealing Elections: How Voter Fraud Threatens Our Democracy."
11942  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Obama Phenomena on: November 03, 2008, 03:36:11 AM post-Obama
11943  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Gender issues thread on: November 02, 2008, 11:39:20 PM
Being a leftist means never having to say you're sorry. Just accuse someone of  "unabashed dislike for all blacks", then when asked for proof, then declare yourself "done" with the topic.
11944  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Libertarian Issues on: November 02, 2008, 08:57:57 AM

Conyers calls for investigation into Aunti Zeituni info leak;  Joe the Plumber still on his own
By Michelle Malkin  •  November 1, 2008 11:25 PM

I predicted the totally predictable last night. And so it has come to pass: The left-wing fairweather friends of privacy are all over the leak of Aunti Zeituni’s immigration info — while Joe The Plumber remains persona non grata. Democrat Rep. John Conyers has already called for a federal investigation. The WaPo is already up with an A-section story on the anonymous leak. And the liberal blogs are up in arms.
The MSM abhor anonymous leaks — unless they’re helping to undermine Bush administration anti-terrorism programs or conservative causes and candidates.
Laughably, the Obama cultists suspect that Bush administration officials are in cahoots with the McCain campaign and the Associated Press.
These people have reading comprehension and reality comprehension problems. It’s the Bush administration that has moved to protect Aunti Zeituni. It’s the pro-shamnesty Bush administration that will ensure that nothing happens to her. Pro-shamnesty McCain isn’t going to touch the story. McCain adviser Mark Salter told WaPo that it’s a “family matter.”
Another predictable prediction: McCain will issue an edict forbidding staff from talking about this the same way the staffers are forbidden from mentioning Jeremiah Wright — with disastrous results.
Never mind that the massive, systemic problem of deportation fugitives is a matter of national security and rule of law.
“Family matter,” my foot.
By the way: Where in the world is Aunti Zeituni? Who knows? And if it wasn’t Barack Obama who helped her get here, who did? How did she get a Social Security card? Who advised her to apply for public housing? Who did she know with a saavy enough legal background to help her navigate the paperwork of the welfare state?
Obama and his future wife, Michelle, met Onyango on a subsequent visit to Kenya in 1992, and she visited the Obama family in Chicago on a tourist visa about nine years ago, his campaign said. Onyango attended Obama’s U.S. Senate swearing-in ceremony in 2005, and the senator last heard from her about two years ago, according to the campaign.
A campaign source said Obama provided Onyango no assistance in obtaining a tourist visa or housing, or in her immigration case.
In an interview with the Times of London, which first reported Onyango’s presence in Boston and her campaign contributions, Onyango said she had traveled to and from the United States since 1975. Commercial databases indicate she received a Social Security card in 2001, indicating she was legally present and authorized to work at that time.
Onyango was not at her state-subsidized West Broadway residence yesterday in South Boston, and no one answered her telephone.
William McGonigle, deputy director of the Boston Housing Authority, said Onyango applied for public housing in 2002 and was approved in 2003 as an eligible noncitizen. She was paid a small stipend for volunteering as a resident health advocate starting in December 2007, he said.
11945  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Gender issues thread on: November 01, 2008, 09:01:57 PM
"I made the key points above. And she is not worth fighting or wasting time over.  And I acknowledged that I like and respect Lou Dobbs; isn't that enough of a bone for you wolves? "

Umm , , , no  cheesy

T0 make a POINT, you would have to back up your ASSERTIONS, assertions of things which are quite ugly btw, which you simply have not done.  While I agree she can enjoy playing the provocateur (so what?) I enjoy reading MM most of the time find her to be someone who goes after liberal lunacies and specious liberal thinking.  So before I throw her under the bus  wink as a racist bigot it is going to take more than what you´ve produced so far.

Gee GM constantly "backs up points" with cut and paste that have no basis of fact or relevancy... but lots of quantity...

**They are pretty clear to most.**

And please do continue reading MM if she provides entertainment - there is no need to toss her under the bus; however
I just suggest that you read her with a jaundiced eye, but entertainment is important.   smiley

You seem tenacious regarding MM?  A nobody; a vociferous and particularly obnoxious blogger, albeit entertaining.  It seems odd;
you usually go for substance.  But this time    sad

White Supremacy - Numerous articles exist on Malkin and her affiliation with

**Post one.**

Named for Virginia Dare, the first white person born in the New World, the site has been named by the anti-racist Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group.

**The SPLC is hardly a fair source on the topic. Anyone who is opposed to illegal immigration gets smeared by them, including Lou Dobbs.**

And for good reason: the site is dedicated to pushing the kind of pseudo-science the Nazis could have only dreamed of using to support their racial fantasies. Forget phrenology: VDARE spends its time touting books that purport to prove that the average IQ of sub-Saharan Africans is 67, below the accepted standard criteria for a diagnosis of mental retardation.

**Please post that article.**

The Anti-Defamation League notes that the author of the review, J. Philippe Rushton, has been less than subtle about his racism. "During [a] 1996 conference... Rushton lectured at length about the sexual differences among various races, arguing that blacks, while possessing smaller brains, reproduce at a faster rate due to the larger size of their sex organs. 'Not to reinforce stereotypes,' he has said elsewhere, 'but it's a trade-off: more brain or more penis, you can't have everything.' ... He has also stated that Nazi Germany's military prowess was due in part to the purity of their gene pool."

**Please post a link to that.**

Malkin's ties to the site are legion: it regularly prints her column, while she employs one of its writers, Juan Mann, as the principal writer of her "Immigration Blog" and lists the site on her blogroll. And it's not as if Malkin isn't well aware of the criticism, both of the site and her ties to it. . .in a post on her blog in September 2004, she noted that "my friend Peter Brimelow (founder of VDARE) observes that some people apparently think linking to VDARE is tantamount to a hate crime." What do you know. . .for once, he's right.

Or in 2002 MM wrote that interment of thousands of Japanese Americans was "wrong and abhorrent."  Yet, in 2004 she wrote a book defending and saying it was great to put thousands upon thousands of innocent and loyal Japanese/Americans in these prison camps.  Odd, my mother's family (German) was never rounded up. 

**And as I pointed out to you before, there were some Germans and Italians interned as well at that time. Also there was at least one incident I know of where ethnic Japanese aided and abbetted a downed Japanese fighter pilot in Hawaii. One of the nazi saboteurs captured and tried by a military tribunal was an American citizen. The FBI crushed the German-American Bund organization after the American entry into WWII. Was internment disproportianate? Probably. Were there legitimate concerns? Yes.**

And yes, GM it was FDR a democrat who did that.  So?  In most elections I have voted Republican; does it matter which party commits a racist act?  It is still wrong.

**Funny enough, J. Edgar Hoover fought FDR's internment plan.**

And I love the hypocrisy of her immigration policy.  MM is suggesting "babies born to illegal immigrants, tourists, and temporary workers be ineligible for US citizenship". 

**Please cite your source for this claim.**

Yet her parents never had a Green Card. 

**Please cite your source for this. Under most every condition, the path to naturalization requires a green card.**

They came here on a temporary work visa, very quickly delivered MM and then they all claimed US Citizenship rather than go home to their native country. 

**I doubt very much this was the scenario, let's see your sources.**

 Why go back when I can get all those rights that go with it?  Or was that planned before they arrived?  She is an anchor baby just like those Mexicans she loves to hate.  Seems a bit inconsistent to me.

**From what is known, her parents entered the US LEGALLY. I don't know anyone that is opposed to illegal immigration that is opposed to LEGAL immigration**

She is a sensationalist with no substance; a shock jockey.   Worse, she is a racist and a hypocrite.

**I have yet to see you post a single bit of proof demonstrating racism from Michelle Malkin. Show me in her own words.**

Sorry, but I am done with Micelle Malkin; I have no interest in her.  Continue to watch/read her for entertainment purposes, but for serious journalism I would find someone else.  But no reason to dump her under a bus as I understand even O'Reily dumped her off his show. 

**As I understand, she quit after O'Reilly wouldn't dump Geraldo after he said he'd spit on her.**

11946  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: November 01, 2008, 07:29:58 PM

Dear Mr. Obama.....
11947  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Media Issues on: November 01, 2008, 06:34:45 PM

October 31, 2008, 4:00 a.m.

The End of Journalism
Sometime in 2008, journalism as we knew it died, and advocacy media took its place.

By Victor Davis Hanson

There have always been media biases and prejudices. Everyone knew that Walter Cronkite, from his gilded throne at CBS news, helped to alter the course of the Vietnam War, when, in the post-Tet depression, he prematurely declared the war unwinnible. Dan Rather’s career imploded when he knowingly promulgated a forged document that impugned the service record of George W. Bush. We’ve known for a long time — from various polling, and records of political donations of journalists themselves, as well as surveys of public perceptions — that the vast majority of journalists identify themselves as Democratic, and liberal in particular.

Yet we have never quite seen anything like the current media infatuation with Barack Obama, and its collective desire not to raise key issues of concern to the American people. Here were four areas of national interest that were largely ignored.

For years an axiom of the liberal establishment was the need for public campaign financing — and the corrosive role of private money in poisoning the election process. The most prominent Republican who crossed party lines to ensure the passage of national public campaign financing was John McCain — a maverick stance that cost him dearly among conservatives who resented bitterly federal interference in political expression.

In contrast, Barack Obama, remember, promised that he would accept both public funding and the limitations that went along with it, and would “aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election.” Then in June 2008, Obama abruptly reneged, bowing out entirely from government financing, the first presidential nominee in the general election to do that since the system was created in 1976.

Obama has now raised over $600 million, by far the largest campaign chest in American political history. In many states he enjoys a four-to-one advantage in campaign funding — most telling in his scheduled eleventh-hour, 30-minute specials that will not be answered by the publicly financed and poorer McCain campaign.

The story that the media chose to ignore was not merely the Obama about-face on public financing, or even the enormous amounts of money that he has raised — some of it under dubious circumstances involving foreign donors, prepaid credit cards, and false names. Instead, they were absolutely quiet about a historic end to liberal support for public financing.

For all practical purposes, public financing of the presidential general election is now dead. No Republican will ever agree to it again. No Democrat can ever again dare to defend a system destroyed by Obama. All future worries about the dangers of big money and big politics will fall on deaf ears.

Surely, there will come a time when the Democratic Party, whether for ethical or practical reasons, will sorely regret dismantling the very safeguards that for over three decades it had insisted was critical for the survival of the republic.

Imagine the reaction of the New York Times or the Washington Post had John McCain renounced his promise to participate in public campaign financing, proceeded instead to amass $600 million and outraise the publicly financed Barack Obama four-to-one, and begun airing special 30-minute unanswered infomercials during the last week of the campaign.

We know now almost all the details of Sarah Palin’s pregnancies, whether the trooper who tasered her nephew went to stun or half stun, the cost of her clothes, and her personal expenses — indeed, almost everything except how a mother of so many children gets elected councilwoman, mayor, and governor, routs an entrenched old-boy cadre, while maintaining near record levels of public support.

Yet the American public knows almost nothing of what it should about the extraordinary career of Joe Biden, the 36-year veteran of the Senate. In unprecedented fashion, Biden has simply avoided the press for most of the last two months, confident that the media instead would deconstruct almost every word of “good looking” Sarah Palin’s numerous interviews with mostly hostile interrogators.

By accepted standards of behavior, Biden has sadly proven wanting. He has committed almost every classical sin of character — plagiarism, false biography, racial insensitivity, and serial fabrication. And because of media silence, we don’t know whether he was kidding when he said America would not need to burn coal, or that Hezbollah was out of Lebanon, or that FDR addressed the nation on television as president in 1929 (surely a record for historical fictions in a single thought), or that the public would turn sour on Obama once he was challenged by our enemies abroad. In response, the media reported that the very public Sarah Palin was avoiding the press while the very private Joe Biden shunned interviews and was chained to the teleprompter.

For two months now, the media reaction to Biden’s inanity has been simply “that’s just ol’ Joe, now let’s turn to Palin,” who, in the space of two months, has been reduced from a popular successful governor to a backwoods creationist, who will ban books and champion white secessionist causes. The respective coverage of the two candidates is ironic in a variety of ways, but in one especially — almost every charge against Palin (that she is under wraps, untruthful, and inept) was applicable only to Biden.

So we are about to elect a vice president about whom we know only that he has been around a long time, but little else — and nothing at all why exactly Joe Biden says the most astounding and often lunatic things.

Imagine the reaction of Newsweek or Time had moose-hunting mom Sarah Palin claimed FDR went on television to address the nation as President in 1929, or warned America that our enemies abroad would test John McCain and that his response would result in a radical loss of his popularity at home.

In 2004, few Americans knew Barack Obama. In 2008, they may elect him. Surely his past was of more interest than his present serial denials of it. Whatever the media’s feelings about the current Barack Obama, there should have been some story that the Obama of 2008 is radically different from the Obama who was largely consistent and predictable for the prior 30 years.

Each Obama metamorphosis in itself might be attributed to the normal evolution to the middle, as a candidate shifts from the primary to the general election. But in the case of Obama, we witnessed not a shift, but a complete transformation to an entirely new persona — in almost every imaginable sense of the word. Name an issue — FISA, NAFTA, guns, abortion, capital punishment, coal, nuclear power, drilling, Iran, Jerusalem, the surge — and Obama’s position today is not that of just a year ago.

Until 2005, Obama was in communication with Bill Ayers by e-mail and phone, despite Ayers reprehensible braggadocio in 2001 that he remained an unrepentant terrorist. Rev. Wright was an invaluable spiritual advisor — until spring of 2008. Father Pfleger was praised as an intimate friend in 2004 — and vanished off the radar in 2008. The media might have asked not just why these rather dubious figures were once so close to, and then so distant from, Obama; but why were there so many people like Rashid Khalidi and Tony Rezko in Obama’s past in the first place?

Behind the Olympian calm of Obama, there was always a rather disturbing record of extra-electoral politics completely ignored by the media. If one were disturbed by the present shenanigans of ACORN or the bizarre national call for Americans simply to skip work on election day to help elect Obama (who would pay for that?), one would only have to remember that in 1996 Obama took the extraordinary step of suing to eliminate all his primary rivals by challenging their petition signatures of mostly African-American voters.

In 2004, there was an even more remarkable chain of events in which the sealed divorce records of both his principle primary rival Blair Hull and general election foe, Jack Ryan, were mysteriously leaked, effectively ensuring Obama a Senate seat without serious opposition. These were not artifacts of a typical political career, but extraordinary events in themselves that might well have shed light on present campaign tactics — and yet largely remain unknown to the American people.

Imagine the reaction of CNN or NBC had John McCain’s pastor and spiritual advisor of 20 years been revealed as a white supremacist who damned a multiracial United States, or had he been a close acquaintance until 2005 of an unrepentant terrorist bomber of abortion clinics, or had McCain himself sued to eliminate congressional opponents by challenging the validity of African-American voters who signed petitions, or had both his primary and general election senatorial rivals imploded once their sealed divorce records were mysteriously leaked.

The eleventh-hour McCain allegations of Obama’s advocacy for a share-the-wealth socialism was generally ignored by the media, or if covered, written off as neo-McCarthyism. But there were two legitimate, but again neglected, issues.

The first was the nature of the Obama tax plan. The problem was not merely upping the income tax rates on those who made $250,000 (or was it $200,000, or was it $150,000, or both, or none?), but its aggregate effect in combination with lifting the FICA ceilings on high incomes on top of existing Medicare contributions and often high state income taxes.

In other words, Americans who live in high-tax, expensive states like a New York or California could in theory face collective confiscatory tax rates of 65 percent or so on much of their income. And, depending on the nature of Obama’s proposed tax exemptions, on the other end of the spectrum we might well see almost half the nation’s wage earners pay no federal income tax at all.

Questions arise, but were again not explored: How wise is it to exempt one out of every two income earners from any worry over how the nation gathers its federal income tax revenue? And when credits are added to the plan, are we now essentially not cutting or raising taxes, but simply diverting wealth from those who pay into the system to those who do not?

A practical effect of socialism is often defined as curbing productive incentives by ensuring the poorer need not endanger their exemptions and credits by seeking greater income; and discouraging the wealthy from seeking greater income, given that nearly two-thirds of additional wealth would be lost to taxes. Surely that discussion might have been of interest to the American people.

Second, the real story was not John McCain’s characterization of such plans, but both inadvertent, and serial descriptions of them, past and present, by Barack Obama himself. “Spreading the wealth around” gains currency when collated to past interviews in which Obama talked at length about, and in regret at, judicial impracticalities in accomplishing his own desire to redistribute income. “Tragedy” is frequent in the Obama vocabulary, but largely confined to two contexts: the tragic history of the United States (e.g., deemed analogous to that of Nazi Germany during World War II), and the tragic unwillingness or inability to use judicial means to correct economic inequality in non-democratic fashion.

In this regard, remember Obama’s revealing comment that he was interested only in “fairness” in increasing capital-gains taxes, despite the bothersome fact that past moderate reductions in rates had, in fact, brought in greater revenue to government. Again, fossilized ideology trumps empiricism.

Imagine the reaction of NPR and PBS had John McCain advocated something like abolishing all capital gains taxes, or repealing incomes taxes in favor of a national retail sales tax.

The media has succeeded in shielding Barack Obama from journalistic scrutiny. It thereby irrevocably destroyed its own reputation and forfeited the trust that generations of others had so carefully acquired. And it will never again be trusted to offer candid and nonpartisan coverage of presidential candidates.

Worse still, the suicide of both print and electronic journalism has ensured that, should Barack Obama be elected president, the public will only then learn what they should have known far earlier about their commander-in-chief — but in circumstances and from sources they may well regret.

— NRO contributor Victor Davis Hanson is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution.

National Review Online -
11948  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: November 01, 2008, 06:16:55 PM



New ruler of the Baltics, Vladimir Putin
Last updated: 1:09 pm
November 1, 2008
Posted: 12:17 pm
November 1, 2008

Looking back on the four years of his first administration, President Obama can be proud: He made the US welcome among the family of nations again; he reduced our reliance on military force; and he gave us peace by reaching sensible accommodations with our enemies.

The lies told about him in the 2008 election were exposed as sheer bigotry. Far from being "soft on radical Islam," President Obama was the first world leader to welcome Jewish refugees after Iran's nuclear destruction of Israel's major cities (his only caveat - a fair one - was the refusal to accept Zionist military officers and their families, in light of Israel's excessive retaliation).

Obama 2012: Nicole Gelinas: A Term of Fiscal Pain

Obama 2012: Jonah Goldberg: Four Years Later

He also demonstrated his resolve in the face of extremism when he overruled the obstructionist advice of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and ordered our military to cross the border into Pakistan in force. The subsequent debacle, as Pakistan cut off supply routes to Afghanistan and threatened a nuclear response, was entirely the fault of our generals on the ground, not of the administration.

Fortunately, President Obama's willingness to talk to our enemies rescued the situation. After laying down their arms, our troops were allowed to evacuate Pakistan and Afghanistan in peace. The Taliban's return to power in Kabul did not result in an excessive bloodbath, and al Qaeda is not permitted the unrestricted freedom it enjoyed in the country prior to 2001.

State Department surveys prove that the Afghan population welcomes Sharia law, the closure of girls' schools and other such cultural choices. Our reparations payments to Kabul (as with those to Havana) are only just. Opium production is, arguably, no worse than in the past.

We also have seen peace in Iraq. Claims that our troop withdrawal was responsible for the resurgence of al Qaeda and the subsequent civil war are nothing but Republican campaign propaganda. With the International Sunni Alliance in firm control of Iraq - after Israel's wanton destruction of Iran - order prevails in the streets. As for the Turkish and Arab suppression of the Kurds, our diplomats regard it as a small price to pay for regional stability. Biased reports of massacres and concentration camps remain unsubstantiated.

Our relations with the Muslim world have rarely, if ever, been better. The current $320 per barrel price of oil allows long-oppressed states to develop themselves without the yoke of neo-colonialism or invasive efforts to force democracy upon their populations. As UN Ambassador Ayers noted, "We can state with pride that the US not only respects, but embraces cultural differences."

Relations with Russia are also at a high unthinkable a mere four years ago. Moscow's legitimate concerns for the welfare of its citizens in the "near abroad," as well as for ethnic Russians persecuted by so-called free democracies, fully justified its peace-preservation military deployments into Ukraine and other regional states. The subsequent referendums on re-unification with Russia, while displaying a few inevitable irregularities, have been judged free and fair by the Jimmy Carter Memorial Foundation.

While the deployment of Russian forces into the NATO-member Baltic states to protect ethnic Russians proved controversial, President Obama's personal intervention kept us - and NATO - out of war. Partisan charges of "Finlandization" distort the generous terms of the neutrality guarantees Moscow provides for the former NATO members.

After the internationally brokered (with President Obama in the lead) demilitarization of eastern Poland, it's clear to all responsible parties that Russia's legitimate claims have been fully satisfied and we may expect peace in our time.

President Obama resisted yet another war trap as China lost patience and finally reclaimed its long-lost province, Taiwan. Furthermore, the reduction of the US military presence in Japan and South Korea has deflated strategic tensions in East Asia to the lowest level in over one hundred years. Again, President Obama gave us peace.

(The resulting peace dividend from our president's 25% cut in the defense budget has allowed our government, in a public/private partnership with the Chicago-based Rezko Foundation, to provide subsidized housing for almost six million new immigrant families from developing countries. No other administration policy has raised the world's esteem for us more profoundly than our "Global Balance" instant-citizenship immigration reforms.)

In our own hemisphere, President Obama has supported the cause of justice, human rights and trade unions, cutting off military aid to Colombia, killing the proposed free-trade agreement with that country, and expressing humane understanding for the long freedom struggle of the FARC and other liberation groups.

Preferring a sensible rapprochement with Venezuela to needless confrontation, our president went to Caracas and negotiated a regional division of labor with democratically-elected President Hugo Chavez. The end of our destructive trade embargo against Cuba, our formal apology for the deprivations we imposed, and our generous reparations payments have inaugurated a new era of friendship with our long-suffering neighbors to the south.

The only complaint Democratic Party cadres fairly may lodge against the Obama administration's foreign policy is that we still have not fully opened our border with Mexico. Resistance among right-wing fanatics in Washington and bigots around the country remains too strong for now.

As for Mexico's presidential contest, President Obama has made it clear that, while he would prefer that a reputed drug-cartel leader not be elected, the US will respect the will of the Mexican people and strive for good relations with any future Mexican government.

One can only ask how much higher our 16.2% unemployment rate - an obvious legacy of the Bush years - might be if President Obama had not restored America's standing in the world and re-negotiated unfair trade treaties imposed on American workers by previous administrations.

As our president remarked just the other day in a re-election campaign speech in Dearborn, Michigan: "Wealth redistribution isn't just an American issue - it's a global issue. Better that Americans should be a little poorer, if that means our brothers in Egypt and Bolivia can become a little richer."

Under President Obama, America's back!

Ralph Peters' most recent book is, "Barack Obama: Too Great To Be A Mere Messiah?" (Fairness Doctrine Press, Limited, Chicago, July 2012)
11949  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Libertarian Issues on: November 01, 2008, 09:07:56 AM

A cover-up in Plumbergate?
posted at 9:50 am on November 1, 2008 by Ed Morrissey   

Looks like Ohio has a first-class political scandal brewing over Joe the Plumber.  After Helen Jones-Kelley tried to bluff her way out of her actions to check Joe Wurzelbacher’s records when he became a national story, the employee who conducted the search says that she’s never heard of a “famous person” investigation.  Vanessa Niekamp also says her supervisors lied to her about the investigation, and then asked her to lie about it afterwards:

Vanessa Niekamp said that when she was asked to run a child-support check on Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher on Oct. 16, she thought it routine. A supervisor told her the man had contacted the state agency about his case.

Niekamp didn’t know she just had checked on “Joe the Plumber,” who was elevated the night before to presidential politics prominence as Republican John McCain’s example in a debate of an average American. …

Director Helen Jones-Kelley said her agency checks people who are “thrust into the public spotlight,” amid suggestions they may have come into money, to see if they owe support or are receiving undeserved public assistance.

Niekamp told The Dispatch she is unfamiliar with the practice of checking on the newly famous. “I’ve never done that before, I don’t know of anybody in my office who does that and I don’t remember anyone ever doing that,” she said today.

The case gets even murkier.  The Dispatch, which has done yeoman work on this story, got the public records surrounding the Wurzelbacher inquiry — but Niekamp’s e-mail wasn’t included.  Nor did the records indicate any redaction or gap, as required by law.  Afterwards, a spokesperson for Governor Ted Strickland acknowledged the omission, saying that Niekamp’s status as a child-welfare agent exempted them from providing her e-mail.

What’s becoming apparent is that Ohio officials have something to hide.  The records-check request came from an assistant deputy director for child support.  When the story went public, the deputy director “literally demanded” Niekamp write the e-mail that would get them off the hook.  The agency’s leadership engaged in a cover-up — and that strongly implies that a crime got committed.

Niekamp told the Dispatch that she’s seen people get fired for unauthorized records checks, and that she herself fired one employee for the violation of public trust.  This has gone beyond just a mere firing.  It now looks as though Helen Jones-Kelley’s staff engaged in an attempt to obstruct justice, and Jones-Kelley’s lie about the Famous People Records Check appears to be part of it.
11950  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Libertarian Issues on: November 01, 2008, 09:01:16 AM

State employee says she was ordered to check out Joe the Plumber
Friday,  October 31, 2008 10:21 PM
By Randy Ludlow
The Columbus Dispatch

Vanessa Niekamp said that when she was asked to run a child-support check on Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher on Oct. 16, she thought it routine. A supervisor told her the man had contacted the state agency about his case.
Niekamp didn't know she just had checked on "Joe the Plumber," who was elevated the night before to presidential politics prominence as Republican John McCain's example in a debate of an average American.

The senior manager would not learn about "Joe" for another week, when she said her boss informed her and directed her to write an e-mail stating her computer check was a legitimate inquiry.

The reason Niekamp said she was given for checking if there was a child-support case on Wurzelbacher does not match the reason given by the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services.

Director Helen Jones-Kelley said her agency checks people who are "thrust into the public spotlight," amid suggestions they may have come into money, to see if they owe support or are receiving undeserved public assistance.

Niekamp told The Dispatch she is unfamiliar with the practice of checking on the newly famous. "I've never done that before, I don't know of anybody in my office who does that and I don't remember anyone ever doing that," she said today.

Democrat Gov. Ted Strickland and Jones-Kelley, both supporters of Democrat Barack Obama, have denied political motives in checking on Wurzelbacher. The Toledo-area resident later endorsed McCain. State officials say any information on "Joe" is confidential and was not released.

Today, Strickland press secretary Keith Dailey said neither the governor's office nor Job and Family Services officials could comment due to an ongoing investigation by Ohio's inspector general.

Republican legislators have called the checks suspicious and Jones-Kelley's reason for them flimsy. They are demanding to know whether state computers were accessed in an attempt to dig up dirt on Wurzelbacher.

Jones-Kelley has revealed that her agency also checked to see if Wurzelbacher was receiving welfare assistance or owed unemployment compensation taxes. "Joe the Plumber" has said he is not involved in a child-support case.

About 3 p.m. on Oct. 16, Niekamp said Carrie Brown, assistant deputy director for child support, asked her to run Wurzelbacher through the computer. Citing privacy laws, Niekamp would not say what, if anything, was found on "Joe."

On Oct. 23, Niekamp said Doug Thompson, deputy director for child support, told her she had checked on "Joe the Plumber." Thompson "literally demanded" that she write an e-mail to the agency's chief privacy officer stating she checked the case for child-support purposes, she said.

Thompson told her that Jones-Kelley said Wurzelbacher might buy a plumbing business and could owe support. Thompson said he replied that he "would check him out."

Niekamp, 38, a senior child-support manager, said she never heard any discussion of politics amid what her supervisors told her about the checks on Wurzelbacher.

Worried about her $69,000-a-year job and potential criminal charges, the 15-year state employee said she went to Inspector General Thomas P. Charles on Oct. 24. She has seen employees fired, and dismissed one herself, for illegally accessing personal information in support cases. Niekamp, a registered Republican, said politics played no role in what she told investigators.

The e-mail that Niekamp said she wrote was not among records provided today to The Dispatch in response to a public-records request. Nor did the agency, as required by state law, say it withheld any records.

Strickland spokesman Dailey later said one e-mail was withheld from The Dispatch because its release is prohibited by federal or state laws that forbid the release of information on the state's child-support system. Daily said he was neither confirming nor denying the existence of a case on Wurzelbacher.
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