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3001  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Health Thread (nutrition, medical, longevity, etc) on: October 18, 2010, 02:40:46 PM
"by "assisting" her to become fat he is in essence "harming" her"

Did I use the word "assisting"?

He saw her once I think.
He is not assisting her to become fat.

He would be trying to treat her obesity as well as any other health issues but that doesn't mean he could succeed.

Just because a doctor keeps an alcoholic alive doesn't mean he is helping him/her stay an alcoholic.

I risk the line above;  no matter what I say it becomes interpreted backwards.



3002  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politically (In)correct on: October 18, 2010, 02:07:58 PM
Kyra Phillips on CNN, the cable nanny network while reporting on the mosque that had a garbage can filled with bacon to insult the members called the unkonw culprit a "punk".  If an artist puts Jesus in urine or another puts bacon outside a synague does she call them a punk.

Her additional point was that actions like this "punk" actually causes harm to the reputation of the US.  These things can be transmittede around the world on youtube in seconds giving radical Islamists reason to want to kill us.

Never mind no one would even know about it if not for CNN.

And besides, I don't recall hearing Christains who upon learing that Jesus was in urine is thus grounds for Christains to rome around the world and murder all non  Christains.

I don't recall Israelis who when seeing on youtube a swatiska on the side of a synoguage running around screaming holy war and calling for decapitation of every goy they can get their hands on.

Philips is not a favorite of mine.  This is the same gal who tells the founder of the Black Panthers that it was an "honor" to have him on her show.

thanks for listening,
I feel better.
3003  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Health Thread (nutrition, medical, longevity, etc) on: October 18, 2010, 01:17:14 PM
She actually asked him if he would want to be on the reality show.

I know this guy well and he is excellent and would never do anything to harm anyone.

Who wants to be known as the doctor who keeps the heaviest woman alive so she can be the heviest woman?
3004  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Health Thread (nutrition, medical, longevity, etc) on: October 18, 2010, 11:48:56 AM
"Regarding the 33,000 calorie lady, we used to have freak shows at the state fair.  Now we don't have the shows and they aren't called freaks anymore."

Actually we kind of do have these shows.  They are reality shows.  Just not Barnum and Bailey.

There is a ladly in Old Bridge NJ who is vying to be the heaviest woman in the world.

I know the doctor who reluctantly is her phsyician.

She has made clear she wants to become the heaviest for the explicit reason of making money off it - reality show and whatever else she can get from it.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/nj_woman_attempting_to_become_world_pco3O4qPWiCg3yjEWaxx9N
3005  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / I eat 33,000 calories a day. on: October 18, 2010, 09:59:52 AM
All great points.

I think GM sums up with this:

"Now we still have the same inborn impulses, but a very different access to food and much less in the way of physical demands for most of us."

With regards to Doug's comment:

"I don't buy that people are unaware when this is happening to them"

Generally I agree but the insidious nature of obesity and weight gain is more incredible than I ever realized.  Anyone ever watch that show on calbe, "I eat 33,000 calories a day"?   There is a scene where a 350 or 400 pound lady was followed around for a day and they wrote down everything that she ate in a course of an average day.

Next the went and fixed her several full plates of food the exact same she ate and laid out all these plates on a round table.  They brought her into the room and said to her THIS IS WHAT YOU EAT IN A TYPICAL DAY!!!

Well her repsonse was astonishing.  Her eyes bugged open, her mouth fell agape and she just stood there in shock saying, "I eat all this in a day!?.  This is disgusting."

Well, now I am sitting there watching this the same as everyone else thinking how on earth could this fat lady be stuffing all this food in her fat mouth all day long and NOT know it?

The denial some people have is being belief.  Of course she is extreme, but my point is that it isn't as straight forward as some would like to think.

There have been other shows about this.  One followed around three people who are succesful in losing large amount of weight and keeping it off.  But when I tell you it is a FULL time job I mean it.  These people spend all day long fighting and planning and motivating, and excercising, and cooking, and avoiding and keeping themselves focused.  They show one woman woaling around her house in excercise leotards.  She teaches aerobics and does her own at home as well.  Another guy is shown running for two hours a day and spending lots of time planning and cooking his healthy meals. 

Folks you have no idea how hard it is in our society to keep and lose weight off for most people.  That is why a 10 to 15 % goal is reasonable and achievable for most with discipline and motivation.  More maybe for some but not many.

3006  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / econimist and obesity epidemic on: October 17, 2010, 12:48:43 PM
***When the full explanation for the modern epidemic of obesity has emerged***

Of course the explanation to many of my friends here on this forum is that it is simply a matter of choice but I post this for fun anyway:

****Obesity
Does light make you fat?
When—not just what—mice eat affects how much weight they put on
Oct 14th 2010

Illuminating the cause of obesityTHE blame for rising obesity rates has been pinned on many things, including a more calorific diet, the spread of processed food, a lack of exercise and modern man’s generally more stressful lot. Something else may soon be included in the list: brighter nights.

Light regulates the body’s biological clock—priming an individual’s metabolism for predictable events such as meals and slumber. Previous research has shown that, in mice at least, the genes responsible for this can be manipulated so as to make the animals plumper and more susceptible to problems associated with obesity, including diabetes and heart disease. It was not known, though, whether simply altering ambient light intensity might have similar effects.

A team of researchers led by Laura Fonken of Ohio State University has cleared the matter up. As they report in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, they examined how nocturnal light affects weight, body fat and glucose intolerance (the underlying cause of late-onset diabetes) in male mice. They found that persistent exposure to even a little night-time light leads to increases in all three.

To reach this conclusion Dr Fonken split her murine subjects into three groups. Some were kept in cages lit constantly, so as to resemble a never-ending overcast day. A second group lived in conditions akin to their natural habitat, with 16 hours of overcast day-like light, followed by eight hours of darkness. The remaining rodents were also exposed to a cycle, but the dark was replaced with a dim glow equivalent to the twilight at the first flickers of dawn.

Over the eight-week period of the experiment the mice in the first and third groups gained almost 50% more weight than those exposed to the natural light-dark cycle. They also put on more fat and exhibited reduced tolerance of glucose, despite eating comparable amounts of food and moving around just as much.

The only thing that seemed to differ was when the mice ate. In the wild, mice are nocturnal. Unsurprisingly, then, those in the quasi-natural conditions consumed only about a third of their food in the “day” phase. For a mouse exposed to the twilight cycle, however, the figure was over 55%.

In a follow-up experiment, Dr Fonken looked at whether the timing of food consumption alone could explain the observed differences. It turned out that those forced to eat during the “day”—ie, out of whack with their biological clock—did indeed gain about 10% more weight than those fed at “night” (be it dark or just dim) or those with uninterrupted access to grub.

How this might relate to people will require further investigation. Mice and humans are physiologically alike, so a similar effect might be expected for people, but the fact that mice are nocturnal and humans diurnal is a serious complicating factor. It is true, though, that the spread of electric lighting means many people eat their main meal when natural daylight is long gone—the obverse of a mouse eating during daylight hours. And that tendency to eat late, though it has never been tested properly, is believed by many nutritionists to be a factor in putting on weight.

When the full explanation for the modern epidemic of obesity has emerged, it is unlikely that the spread of artificial lighting will be the whole of it. But this work suggests it might be a part. When you eat could be as important as what you eat.

Science and Technology****

3007  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2010 Elections; 2012 Presidential on: October 17, 2010, 12:44:15 PM
"Please, please please, moderate and sensible Democrats, pick someone other than BO or HRC in 2012."

I couldn't agree more.  Yet we both know Hillary is next in line and I also agree the only question is which year.  I don't get it when I keep hearing what a "great job" she is doing.  Why?  What has she accomplished and what specifically is so great about it?  I have not heard one specific accomplishment to support this conclusion.  It is almost like some sort of urban myth running around the media.  I really do not find her impressive.  I think a John Bolten could run circles around her with his intellect compared to hers. She is extremely careful as to what she says all the time with running in 12 or 16 obviously always in the back of her mind.  But I have NEVER heard anythin earth shattering genius coming out of her. 

By the way what is Condi Rice doing praising Clinton and Bamster?

I guess she wants another job.   cry
3008  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Cognitive Dissonance of His Glibness on: October 15, 2010, 12:20:17 PM
His "tribalism" comment is just so classic condescending "dah"bamster.  Here is the guy that talks about "hand to hand" combat, pleading with Latinos and Blacks to come out and support him labelling the rest of us as just a bunch of tribilists.

Just another example of a person with a personality "disorder" who is quick to blame others without any ability to objectively assess himself.  He is right and everyone else is beneath him:

 President Obama addresses a town hall audience of young Americans, October 14, 2010.
(Credit: AP) Asked about what the questioner saw as an increase in racial tension Thursday, President Obama said a "tribal attitude" can come as a result of economic hardship.


"Historically, when you look at how America has evolved, typically we make progress on race relations in fits and starts," he said at a town hall event with young Americans.


He then suggested that the recession has played a part in driving racial antagonism while he has been in office.


"Often times misunderstandings and antagonisms surface most strongly when times are tough. And that's not surprising," Mr. Obama said, arguing that Americans are less worried when things are going well.


He added that anxiety over not being able to pay bills - or having lost a job or a home - sometimes "organizes itself around kind of a tribal attitude, and issues of race become more prominent."


He also said, however, that "I think the trend lines are actually good."


"This audience just didn't exist 20 years ago," Mr. Obama said, surveying the multiracial room of young people to whom he was speaking. He said the interaction between races among young people today is "unprecedented."


"We've got a little bit of everybody in this country," the president said, arguing that "our strength comes from unity, not division."


The president, referencing his own experience, added that "as you get older, your mind gets a little more set." He said that's why the tolerance of young people is so important. "You guys are going to be the messengers," said the president.

3009  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in Europe on: October 14, 2010, 07:29:45 PM
Doug,
It sounds like you responded in a way that scared them off.   It seems weird they would attack you like that if it roberry wasn't the motive but who knows.

Could you imagine if they attacked Crafty.   They would have been in the hospital.

3010  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: How to cut government spending on: October 14, 2010, 07:13:15 PM
Yes indeed, hence the name of Savage's latest book:

'Trickle up poverty'!
3011  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Health Thread (nutrition, medical, longevity, etc) on: October 14, 2010, 03:27:20 PM
"I'm still waiting for your explanation to Crafty and my question; why primarily Americans,  not your Indian physician friend, or my Japanese friends, or Italians, or French, or English or German people in general are not fat or obese."

they are smarter than us tongue
3012  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Health Thread (nutrition, medical, longevity, etc) on: October 13, 2010, 04:26:03 PM
"So I asked for the stereotype of Americans.  Came the answer: "Fat people in shorts and white socks."  Ouch."

I have heard the same thing here from an doctor from India.  The line I recall is Americans are "fat, lazy, and waste a lot".
3013  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2010 Elections; 2012 Presidential on: October 13, 2010, 04:19:49 PM
Speaking of Dick Morris he was asked if he is a Republican or not, I think by O'Reilly.

Excellent question because of course he spent the 90's as we all know keeping Clinton relevant.  Is he just an opportunist looking for whoever will hire him or what?

I can't quite recall but I think he answered something to the effect that he agrees with conservative values and more or less that is where is heart is.  I liked the answer.

A guy who day after day gets up there and points out Repubs are aiming to low is exactly the type of guy I would want as a leding strategist.  And if the Repubs take the Senate Morris was way out front calling it!

Heck, get him the girls with nice toes - who the heck cares.

Unlike an opposite player - Arianna Huffington who when she couldn't get a job with Bush went liberal just to spite him (my theory anyway). 
3014  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Health Thread (nutrition, medical, longevity, etc) on: October 13, 2010, 04:05:35 PM
And I forgot to add that the nurse said - these people are going through "torture".  And that IS what it is for these people.  Torture.  Imagine going throught torture to lose all that weight.  And then imagine expecting these people to literally plan on torturing themselves for the REST of their lives to maintain.  With temptation every single minute of every single day!  Forever. 

Except for those very few unless they move to a deserted island it ain't gonna happen.

You want to say well then, it is their "choice", be my guest.

I say the evidence is clear that 10 or 15% weight loss is as much as almost all motivated *and* disciplined people are able to achieve over extended periods of time.

Whether due to too much food availability, too much TV or message boarding, too little exercise or what we can all theorize.  But in the USA we have an epidemic of a disease called obesity. 

That said I don't want Bamster or anyone else telling what I can eat or not.

The answer will hopefully come from the pharm industry but it is unlikely to be one pill that fits all.  It might be combinations.  Or brain and gut surgery.  I don't know.

Or we cap and trade and try to tax are way out.  Or we have a disaster and we all starve.

Thems the facts folks.

(Yes I have seen the motivational types showing us how we can eat like slobs and not gain weight and how delicious it is - so long as we eat vast quantities of lettuce, vegetables, and tofu.)
3015  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Health Thread (nutrition, medical, longevity, etc) on: October 13, 2010, 03:53:21 PM
So probably hundreds of millions of people who cannot maintain weight loss despite Jenny Craig, Weight Watchers, countless other plans, Medit. diets. low fat diets, low carb diets, a trillion excercise programs and billions spent trying to lose weight are simply unmotivated people who "choose" to be overweight?

I was speaking today to a nurse at one of the hospitals and we were talking about weight loss.  She asked if I have ever seen the biggest loser?  I said a few times for a few minutes.  I don't need to watch what I already know.  I can tell you that after their 15 minutes of fame is up, that within five years 95% of all those on that program will have gained back all their weight.  So you are telling me these are unmotivated gluttens who "choose" to be fat?

What are all you guys nuts?
3016  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Health Thread (nutrition, medical, longevity, etc) on: October 12, 2010, 12:03:01 PM
"I resubmit the proposition that your theory is disproved"

Crafty,

That is exactly the problem with your argument.

We can only choose to a limited degree and not completely as I think  you suggest.  As 5 rings points out,
the science is irrefutable.

Yet you want to ignore this and suggest it is free choice.  I submit this is misguided. Certainly there is some choice involved but this does not explain all of it by any long shot.  I am not a Democrat or a progressive. I don't want a nanny state.  That is the progressive agenda.  Not "my argument".

As 5 rings points out,

You probably burn hundreds and possibly thousands of calories a day.  Most people don't and some couldn't whether they choose to or not. With regard to excercise  the studies are quite clear.  Very few people can lose and keep weight off without significant excercise.

  I can't speak for other countries.  Perhaps they walk more I don't know.

I don't want a nanny state.  That is the progressive agenda.  Not "my argument".
3017  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Health Thread (nutrition, medical, longevity, etc) on: October 12, 2010, 11:23:09 AM
"I resubmit the proposition that your theory is disproved"

What theory?  that obesity is not a disease?

That it is free choice?

I've already pointed out there are cultural environmental social and economic issues at play.

the fact the US is the most obese does not disprove anything about freedom of choice.

In 1969 the average chopped steak at a diner was 8 ounces.  In 1999 it was 16 oz.

we are eating them.  People are putting their healths at risk.  Why because it ain't easy not too.

Your point about other countries only strengthens the argument that we need to legislate what people cannot do for themselves.

We should put all fattening foods out of business following *your* argument. Education alone is not enough.   Like tax and spend dems are  trying to do with cigarettes.
3018  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Health Thread (nutrition, medical, longevity, etc) on: October 12, 2010, 10:19:16 AM
Good points.

I have done bariatric medicine.  And I can tell you that getting overweight people to lose 10 or 15% of there overall weight and maintaining that loss is a MAJOR achievement.  I recall listening to a lecture from one physician who specializes in weight loss medicine.  And he said if I have had 2 or 3 people go from BMI of 45 to 25 in twenty five years that is "a lot".

I advise my patients to target 10 and hopefully 15% weight loss even if they are still obese.  Because I know any more is unrealistic and almost impossible.

To be able to lose more is without a doubt, as another weight loss psychiatrist pointed out, "a full time job".

Crafty and JDN with all due respect you don't understand.

That is why progressives want to legislate a cap and trade on whatever they want to label as "fattening".  To be able to control what people are unable to do for themselves.

They did studies on prisoners I think in the 70's.  They underfed them 100 calories a day.  As they lost more and more weight there thoughts started to turn towards getting more food.  This was true even if they were overweight to start with.  The theory is that something goes wrong or haywire.  The brain sets a point to maintain weight a a certain level even if it is more than needed for survival or healthy weight.  As they lose more and more weight the thoughts of obtaining food becomes overwhelming.  The brain senses they are starving even if they aren't.  Every single waking thought, their dreams their cravings, their desires, theri focus is turned toward obtaining food.  It becomes truly overwhelming.  To the point that the person cannot think of anything else.  To the point where they cannot perform any other function except dream of food.  It is a result of evolution.  We evovled with multiple chemical, hormonal, neurologic, intestinal pathways that work in sync to keep us motiveated to obtain food.  If we didn't have these overlapping pathways that drive us to obtain food we would have perished on the grasslands from lack of will to chase mammoths, or gather nuts berries etc.  We can block one of these pathways and hence the person will lose around 6 % of weight before other pathways start to compensate and then kick in and thus overwhelm our brain with drive to start seeking food again.

THAT is why it is so hard for Americans to lose weight.  There are already at least (the last I read) over 100 genes associated with obesity.  One size does not fit all.

Saying a person lacks the will to lose 10 or 15% of their weight is reasonable.  I tell people that with any motivation and discipline they should be able to do that, otherwise they are just lazy, don't get it, don't care etc.  But more than that is nearly IMPOSSIBLE.

I could try to find scientific artilce and post when I have more time.

3019  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Health Thread (nutrition, medical, longevity, etc) on: October 11, 2010, 05:45:52 PM
JDN and Crafty,

Your opinions are respected.

My only comment is I wasn't referring to myself as the ONE.  I was referring to THE "Chosen One". smiley
3020  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / GOP + 9 in Senate so far on: October 11, 2010, 05:43:14 PM
http://realclearpolitics.com/
3021  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / I am afraid it isn't a legal argument on: October 11, 2010, 05:15:14 PM
Obesity is a disease.  No doubt the US is either the leader or up there in obesity rates.

It is hugely complex.

It is the evidence.  The facts.

It is not simply a choice.  If it was no one would choose to be obese and few would be.

There are cultural, environmental, psychiatric, learned, genetic, metabolic and other issues involved.

The multiple chemical pathways and the interactions "cross talk" between them is incredibly mind baffling.

I've read some of the scientific articles describing them and it is so complex one could easily spend a lifetime trying to understand them.  And if that isn't enough we are only beginning to unlock the secrets of energy homeostasis.

Some of the articles are written by people who are incredibly brilliant (far more than the ONE  wink).

Thank God there are people smart enough who try and figure these things out.

3022  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Government programs & regulations, spending, budget process on: October 11, 2010, 04:01:32 PM
Doug,

From one of my previous posts:

"I had one patient who is on permanent Federal disability for stress, anxiety.  He came in for a renewal of his disability papers and I simpoly looked him straight in the eye and said, " you really can't work because you are stressed out?"  His repsonse, "absolutely".  So I filled out the form with this information exactly as it was and that is that.  He gets it. 

I tell him everyone is stressed out.  Who isn't?  He didn't blink one time when I asked him.  He couldn't care less."

This pt. returned and apparantly was referred to a disability psychologist who through testing was able to show he was likely malingering.

The pt. advised me "they want to stop my disability".

Disability people must not have been impressed with my earlier notes and thus sent him for "second opinion".

I didn't offer to provide any additional information and fortunately he didn't come right out and ask.
3023  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Political Rants & interesting thought pieces on: October 11, 2010, 12:38:35 PM
"George Foreman, who were despised when they were at their peak and then manufactured a touchy-feely post-career aura that made some people forget how much they disliked them"

Foreman despised?  By whom?

Actually I rooted for Foreman to wipe the smirk off Ali.  I appreciated GF when he proudly waved an American flag at the Olympics!
That was a refreshing turn form the Black power waving of fists from the Olympian runners and the celebrating of the draft dodging Ali.

Yet I did give Ali credit for beating the guy as he said he would.  The same guy who destroyed Frazier and Norton just earlier.



 
3024  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / More PC MSM on: October 11, 2010, 11:26:08 AM
I guess the political correct crowd has won.  When CNN anchors can label Palidino's comments as extreme then this is another example of us being turned upside down.  So gay marriage, adoption, parades is now mainstream and those who don't feel it is normal are now the "extreme" ones.  I think it still so most would agree with Palidino.
Republicans are on full retreat on this one.

***New York — Republican gubernatorial candidate Carl Paladino told Orthodox Jewish leaders on Sunday that there's "nothing to be proud of in being a dysfunctional homosexual."

Paladino, who has received tea party support, made the comments at a synagogue in Brooklyn's Williamsburg section while trying to strike a contrast between himself and his Democratic rival, state Atty. Gen. Andrew Cuomo. Paladino said he chose not to march in this summer's gay pride parade but his opponent did.

"That's not how God created us," Paladino said of being gay, "and that's not the example that we should be showing our children."

He added that children who later in life choose to marry people of the opposite sex and raise families would be "much better off and much more successful."

"I don't want them to be brainwashed into thinking that homosexuality is an equally valid and successful option," he said.

Paladino, a multimillionaire developer from Buffalo, has stated that he is opposed to same-sex marriage. His most recent comments came as eight people were arraigned Sunday in an attack on a gay man and two gay teens in the Bronx on Oct. 3.

Asked whether his comments were appropriate given the attack, Paladino said he does not support violence against gays.

"Don't misquote me as wanting to hurt homosexual people in any way. That would be a dastardly lie," he said. "My approach is live and let live."

A Cuomo campaign spokesman, Josh Vlasto, said Paladino's comments demonstrated "a stunning homophobia and a glaring disregard for basic equality."
Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.****

 
3025  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Health Thread (nutrition, medical, longevity, etc) on: October 09, 2010, 10:41:50 AM
"Eating less calories and more real food is always an option too"

Crafty,

I am afraid it isn't that simple.  Most people are not as disciplined as you or professional athletes who burn tons of calories each day.

Almost everyone knows to eat less, and better foods, and to exercise.

Yet 2 out of three are overweight or obese.

It isn't  simply an "option".  I wish it was.

If it was we wouldn't have thousands of weight loss diets, plans, programs, pills, hoaxes, quacks, regimens, biggest losers and the rest. 
And a failure rate for maintenance of over 95%!

I don't have the time at the moment but it is not just "will power" unfortunately.  It is a result evolution that due to mankinds' achievments has run amuck.




 
3026  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Obama is more crazy than most realize on: October 09, 2010, 09:41:27 AM
Doug writes:

"I don't understand why he won't back off of bad ideas now, while governing."

Some, including O'Reilly give Obama more credit than her deserves on this point.  That is they would hold he is true to his core beliefs and that he is governing more to take the country in a direction that he believes is right and not governing by polls and "isn't that admirable?"

I believe it is much less noble and more sinnister.  I believe it is because of his personality disorder.  He is clearly a narcisstic personality disorder with  megalomanic proportions.  This is all about him.  Not some beliefs.  This is reflective of his disdain for anyone who disagrees with him.  He is the smartest knowingist person on the planet.  You disagree with him you are therefor inferior.  His self loves knows no bounds.  If things go wrong it is NEVER due to his actions it is externalized and the fault of someone or something else.  He is right and everyone else is wrong.  That is why he will NEVER (in fact he is due his disorder - unable todo so) admit that his policies are wrong headed.  If he is low in the polls it is due to liars like Fox news, like the miserable sick Republicans.  Like the white racists.

I believe this guy is truly incapable of anything else.  That is why we are seeing what is a anger that is reflective of an underlying disorder.  This guy is far from normal.
When he have a President pitting with imagry one American against another in "hand to hand combat", this is a fight about "slavery", et. we have a huge problem

This supports my personal conclusion this guy IS NUTS.

And THAT is what I mean when I say he will fold like a lawn chair when he has to deal with house(s) majorities that have no sypmpathy with him.  He will not give in or acquiece but he will continue to be delusional, he will continue to drag the country down fighting for what in HIS mind is a delusional idea that HE is the ONE, he is the savior of the world. 

I think it is becoming more and more apparent as time goes on this guy IS NUTS.  Remember he said to one Dem legislature - don't worry, "you have me".  "I have a gift". 
3027  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2010 Elections; 2012 Presidential on: October 08, 2010, 02:59:55 PM
" If she rubs our ownresidient conservative-centrist wrong - even a couple of years later - that is an electoral problem."

I am not sure if I am a conservative centrist.  In theory I am right.  But I don't agree hard right could win in the US. This is where I disagree with Hannity, Levin.  But I could and would not even mind if I am wrong.

Candidates that are very conservative but unpolished like O'Donnell, and less so like Palidino, and even less so like Palin are flawed in this sound bite age.  That said perhaps a strict right candidate could win in 2012 if he/she could express him/herself well.

While I like Dick Morris as a strategist much more than Karl Rove, Rove was right about O'Donnell.

For goodness sakes it looks like we have a high school girl (even if she is 34?) who could never pay her own bills running for the US Senate.  She isn't much better than that guy Green in NC.
3028  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2010 Elections; 2012 Presidential on: October 08, 2010, 02:47:28 PM
Michael,

I see Pence on the talk shows and I like him too.

Have you ever seen him in a debate?

Do you think he could debate the One?
3029  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Health Thread (nutrition, medical, longevity, etc) on: October 08, 2010, 02:30:27 PM
"Three months after the last taped visit, patients whose doctors communicated in an empathic way lost an average of 3.8 pounds -- a substantial achievement"

Some "achievement".  When you are talking an epidemic of people being 40 to hundreds of pounds overweight this is a drop in the bucket.

That is why I say real weight loss gains will only come from the pharmaceutical industry not government.  And not endless Nanny programs on CNN - the Cable Nanny Network with topics like bullying, healthy eating, minority in America and on and on.   Or, we all go for bariatric surgery.


***WEDNESDAY, Oct. 6 (HealthDay News) -- American doctors spend a lot of time discussing diet and weight with their patients, but it has little effect unless doctors have the right communication style, a new study finds.

Patients were much more likely to lose weight if their doctor talked about diet and weight loss in a motivational way, rather than in a judgmental or confrontational manner, researchers found.

In taped conversations between 40 primary care physicians and 461 of their patients over 18 months, doctors discussed weight in 69 percent of those visits, said the Duke University Medical Center researchers.

"We found that on average, physicians spent about three and a half minutes talking about diet and weight loss. That may not sound like much, but it amounts to about 15 percent of the time of the average office visit, which ran about 20 minutes. So the good news is, physicians realize how important the issue is, and they are making a point to talk about it," lead author Kathryn Pollak, of the Cancer Prevention Program at the Duke Comprehensive Cancer Center, said in a Duke news release.

There was little difference in weight loss between patients who did and didn't receive weight counseling, but researchers found that communication style did have an impact.

Three months after the last taped visit, patients whose doctors communicated in an empathic way lost an average of 3.8 pounds -- a substantial achievement given that most overweight or obese patients tend to gain weight over time, the researchers noted.

"Patients don't like to be told what to do [although] they are generally not going to question or talk back to their doctor. But what happens when doctors used reflective statements or a more motivational or empathic approach? It changes the relationship; the patient becomes more of an equal, more of a partner in care," Pollak explained.

"So, for example, instead of asking a question like 'So, you can't fit exercise into your day?' a physician might say something like 'It sounds like you're finding it hard to find time to exercise.' That kind of reflection seems to help patients open up more and give more meaningful information to doctors."

The study appears in the current issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine.***
3030  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Cognitive Dissonance of His Glibness on: October 08, 2010, 12:30:07 PM
Doug writes,

"The inner brain workings of another President from a dysfunctional family don't interest me that much except in how to understand him enough to defeat him."

I agree and would add it also explains what in tarnation he is *really* up to.  He is decietful, disnonest in his real plans for us by design and strategy.  He knows if he came out and said what he really felt what he really wants to accomplish he would never have been elected.  IF we don't know where he came from, and where he gets his inspirations from then we don't even know his real intentions AND how dangerous to the survival of this country they are.

He is absolutely exposed.  But... As the *real great one* said, "you can fool some of the people some of the time and fool some all the time...."

As a victim of probably hundreds of con jobs while Katherine got robbed for probably 20 years I can guarantee this guy is conning us.
AS always when suspecting a con:

Watch what he/she does and where they came from and how they lived their life for the best (but definitely no guarantee either) *chance* to know the truth.

*Never* go by what they say.  It is totally meaningless particularly from a guy who has proved to be a world class liar.

And I correct what I posted above.. Dinesh I am sorry I meant Dreams **from** my Father - not **of** - excellent point of distinction on his part.
3031  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2010 Elections; 2012 Presidential on: October 08, 2010, 11:37:11 AM
Compare this kind of intellect with Sarah Palin and it is undertandable why the left has a point about her.

While she is talented at the "attack dog" talking points I have seen no hint of any intellect beyond that.

I really hope we can come up with a better candidate than her.  I believe she has no chance to attract beyond hard core right.  I would only vote for her as a last resort.

(At least from what I have seen so far.)

Bolten is a real genius/intellect.

Palin is like Hannity - they have a genius *sales* mentality.
3032  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Dreams of my Western hating anticolonial deadbeat dad on: October 08, 2010, 10:38:34 AM
Dinesh was on radio and asked the obvious question:
How could anyone claim Bamster could possibly be a spinnoff of a man he never met?
His answer was that Obama learned all about his father from his mother who idolized and agreed with the father's agenda.  Indeed she revered the father who abandoned them more than the second Muslim man she married.  As Dinesh points out just look at the title of Bamster's book, "Dreams of my Father".  Doesn't that say it all??  The left will of course laywerly pick apart some of the facts or theories but I agree with Dinesh his theory certianly does explain Bmaster's deep rroted antipathy to the West and not just the US. 
Couple that with the lessons he learned from Alinsky - pretend you are one of them and then you can change them - it is really undeniable to an *objective* observer.

http://dineshdsouza.com/

"We are today living out the script for America and the world that was dreamt up not by Obama but by Obama's father. How do I know this? Because Obama says so himself. Reflect for a moment on the title of his book: it's not Dreams of My Father but rather Dreams from My Father. In other words, Obama is not writing a book about his father's dreams; he is writing a book about the dreams that he got from his father.
Think about what this means. The most powerful country in the world is being governed according to the dreams of a Luo tribesman of the 1950s — a polygamist who abandoned his wives, drank himself into stupors, and bounced around on two iron legs (after his real legs had to be amputated because of a car crash caused by his drunk driving). This philandering, inebriated African socialist, who raged against the world for denying him the realization of his anti-colonial ambitions, is now setting the nation's agenda through the reincarnation of his dreams in his son. The son is the one who is making it happen, but the son is, as he candidly admits, only living out his father's dream. The invisible father provides the inspiration, and the son dutifully gets the job done. America today is being governed by a ghost."

3033  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Obama is really crazy on: October 07, 2010, 07:49:49 PM
If the Repubs. win Congress the One will not have vast majorities to make him look like HE is accomplishing anything other than reading speeches.  I still feel he will fold like a lawn chair. This guy is so delusionally narcisstic it is scary.  Forshadowing exactly what I mean is his talking of "hand to hand combat".  And rallying people based on age or race.
I don't recall anything like it in my lifetime. A sitting President using phrases pitting one race against another, that calls for Americans to fight against one another in "hand to hand combat".  Folks, this guy is really F..g crazy!!!!  Is it any wonder he has 36% approval amongst whites and 91% with Blacks?  I can only hope that more and more people see his colors before he destroys our country.

****Reporting from Washington — A Republican majority in Congress would mean "hand-to-hand combat" on Capitol Hill for the next two years, threatening policies Democrats have enacted to stabilize the economy, President Obama warned Wednesday.

Speaking on Michael Baisden's syndicated radio show, Obama also made a direct appeal to African Americans about the importance of the November vote, even though he's not on the ballot himself.

"The reason we won [in 2008] is because young people, African Americans, Latinos -- people who traditionally don't vote in high numbers -- voted in record numbers. We've got to have that same kind of turnout in this election," he said. "If we think that we can just vote one time, then we have a nice party at Obama's inauguration, and then we can kind of sit back and suddenly everything's going to change – that's just not how it works."
Obama called into Baisden's show, syndicated to 71 radio stations in 21 states, as part of his effort to rally core Democratic constituencies with less than four weeks before the election. Although his campaign itinerary is limited by sagging approval ratings in key states, Obama is making a more-targeted effort focused on supportive venues like Baisden's show.

"Everybody in the barbershops, the beauty shops, and at work -- everybody's got to understand: This is a huge election," he said. "If we turn out in strong numbers, then we will do fine. If we do not, if we are depressed and decide, well, you know, Barack's not running right now, so I'm just going to stay home, then I'm going to have my hands full up here on Capitol Hill."

Days before the release of a key jobs report, Obama said most of the job losses his administration gets blamed for occurred before "any of my economic plans were put into place," and that the country is still "experiencing the hangover from the misguided policies" of the last decade.

Obama said a big voter turnout was vital, both to counter millions of dollars being spent by outside groups and the enthusiasm Republicans have demonstrated.

"They are fired up. They are mobilized. They see an opportunity to take back the House, maybe take back the Senate," he said. "If they're successful in doing that, they've already said they're going to go back to the same policies that were in place during the Bush administration. That means that we are going to have just hand-to-hand combat up here on Capitol Hill."

Obama is returning to the campaign trail Thursday, with an appearance just outside Washington in support of Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley's reelection campaign. Later, he'll travel to Chicago for events to raise money for Illinois Democrats, including Senate candidate Alexi Giannoulias and Gov. Pat Quinn.

Illinois Republican Party Chairman Pat Brady said Thursday that Obama has "no coattails," even in his home state.

"In fact, both the appearance of the president and Rahm Emanuel popping his head up has done a lot to motivate our base," he said.****
3034  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Mexico-US matters on: October 06, 2010, 11:30:52 AM
"Mexico’s nationwide murder rate, after all, is a relatively low 14 per 100,000, well below the average for Latin America."

According to this table in the Economist the murder rate in Mexico is not much higher than the US's and much lower than El Salvador.  That said I think the murder rates are still mostly due to drugs in these countries?  Perhaps politics?

http://www.economist.com/node/16964155?story_id=16964155
3035  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Job available.... on: October 06, 2010, 11:22:31 AM
For man or woman who has a command of the English language, has good expression of thought skills, charisma, charm, leadership qualities, conservative views, and adaptability. 

Doug writes:

"whoever wins the R. nomination (if not Bolton) will have to debate and defeat him.  They better start seriously preparing now."

I couldn't agree more.  I really think it will all come down to who sounds better and can out talk the other.  Presentation appears to win out over substance, at least in the short term.  Schwartzenegger who I no longer have much admiration for, recently predicted Dah-bamster will win in 2012 did so for just this reason (speaking ability).  Terminated does not feel there are any Republicans who can out speak Bamster. 

Bolten clearly has an excellent command of the English language (like another Harvard grad - Bill O'Reilly) and can think and speak his mind fluently.  Gingrich is close.  If only Gingirch had the touchy feely effect that Bill Clinton is able to con some people with.  The "I feel your pain thing" apparently does sell to many.  Roosevelt had that I think.  Almost the loving fatherly touch.

I don't think Bolten has that - or at least he doesn't portray that.  But I have a sense from him he is able to adapt and learn.  He has certainly had my impressed ear whenever I get the opportunity to hear him being interviewed. 

ON another note, I know some don't like him, but I think Dick Morris would be s much better strategist than Karl Rove.  I would like to see Morris and Bolten or Morris with whoever has the best chance of debating the one.  Morris clearly got Clinton re-elected.  Getting him to go out every single day and connect with the "people" with touchy feeling nanny statist stuff.  I think Morris could do the same thing from the political right.  He is in my opinion that shrewd.

The Chosen One is not as great a debator as he gets credit for.  Someone who can study him and think "on their feet" quickly, emote warmth and concern, and can express their ideas with command of language would kick his behind.  Bamster is all canned and teleprompter porduct.  He memorizes his lines fairly well.  Of course the MSM don't really question him much either.

I thought O'Reilly, who without a doubt is a genius, kicked his butt.

The repubs need someone like that.  Bolten *may* be that one in my singular humble opinion.  Though Bolten sounded just a *tad too* rough around the edges on Red Eye last week.

"He will be ridiculed for his call to bomb Iran, but that criticism may backfire by Nov. 2012.  By then the threat posed by Iran's nuclear reality could be a serious concern."

Yes, like they did to Barry Goldwater who said if we go to Vietnam we should use nucs and do the job right.  They made him look a nut.  I remember my father, who voted for Johnson was afraid of Goldwater for this reason.   My father is long dead but I am pretty sure he would feel differently with the Iran-Israel situation.  Yet the left will try to do to Bolten the same "he is nuts" thing. 

3036  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Clinton prepares to jump from the SS Obamatanic on: October 06, 2010, 10:50:52 AM
After being drenched by the MSM with higher recognition of Billary recently a poll came out and noted that she would lose in a primary of Dems to Dah-bamster 52 to 37%.  So while her MSM fans and her promoters are now trying another tact.

I would guess than it is no coincidence her army of hacks are now throwing the Bamster_Billary ticket idea for 2012 into the trial balloon arena.

I wonder if, in my lifetime, we will ever be rid of the Clintons?? sad angry cry
3037  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in Europe on: October 05, 2010, 01:59:30 PM
"As one who was mugged and knifed in Amsterdam by 'immigrants'"

What happened?

3038  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Forensics say Titanic could not have continued sailing on: October 04, 2010, 02:17:34 PM
Titanic Shipwreck: New Revelations or Hype?
According to my trusted source, chairman of marine forensics for SNAME, naval architects concur that the Titanic could not have continued “full speed ahead”, as stated by writer Louise Patton–grand-daughter of 2nd officer Lightoller. The following article reveals  what  Lightoller supposedly heard during the original hearings. Ms. Patton is chosing to disclose this information to coincide with the release of her book–one which is based on family conversations.

Although it may be true that the steersman panicked and ordered the fatal turn, it is scientifically refuted that the ship could continue to sail after encountering the massive iceberg.


Titanic sunk by steering mistake, author says


Top of Form

Reuters – The RMS Titanic in what is thought to be the last known image of the ship as she sets sail from Queenstown …

Slideshow:Titanic expedition provides new images

– Wed Sep 22, 11:50 am ET

LONDON (Reuters) – The Titanic hit an iceberg in 1912 because of a basic steering error, and only sank as fast as it did because an official persuaded the captain to continue sailing, an author said in an interview published on Wednesday.

Louise Patten, a writer and granddaughter of Titanic second officer Charles Lightoller, said the truth about what happened nearly 100 years ago had been hidden for fear of tarnishing the reputation of her grandfather, who later became a war hero.

[A brief history of the Titanic]

Lightoller, the most senior officer to have survived the disaster, covered up the error in two inquiries on both sides of the Atlantic because he was worried it would bankrupt the ill-fated liner’s owners and put his colleagues out of a job.

“They could easily have avoided the iceberg if it wasn’t for the blunder,” Patten told the Daily Telegraph.

Click image to see recent Titanic expedition photos


AP/Premier Exhibitions, Inc.-Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

“Instead of steering Titanic safely round to the left of the iceberg, once it had been spotted dead ahead, the steersman, Robert Hitchins, had panicked and turned it the wrong way.”

Patten, who made the revelations to coincide with the publication of her new novel “Good as Gold” into which her account of events are woven, said that the conversion from sail ships to steam meant there were two different steering systems.

[Video: A closer look at the Titanic disaster]

Crucially, one system meant turning the wheel one way and the other in completely the opposite direction.

Once the mistake had been made, Patten added, “they only had four minutes to change course and by the time (first officer William) Murdoch spotted Hitchins’ mistake and then tried to rectify it, it was too late.”

Patten’s grandfather was not on watch at the time of the collision, but he was present at a final meeting of the ship’s officers before the Titanic went down.

There he heard not only about the fatal mistake but also the fact that J. Bruce Ismay, chairman of Titanic’s owner the White Star Line persuaded the captain to continue sailing, sinking the ship hours faster than would otherwise have happened.

[The price of tickets, the case of the drunk survivor, and other fascinating Titanic facts]

“If Titanic had stood still, she would have survived at least until the rescue ship came and no one need have died,” Patten said.

The RMS Titanic was the world’s biggest passenger liner when it left Southampton, England, for New York on its maiden voyage on April 10, 1912. Four days into the trip, the ship hit an iceberg and sank, taking more than 1,500 passengers with it.



3039  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Politics of Health Care on: October 04, 2010, 12:31:51 PM
I agree with all of it except this:

"President Obama clearly hasn’t visited a real doctor’s office recently."

Sure he has.  But he (and his political buddies) doesn't have any denials like the rest of us.

I am also seeing companies starting to deny more and more and pts. benefits being stripped.

This is only the beginning.  Berwick et al are just drooling getting their teeth into cutting what they deem statistically isn't cost effective.

It is all a numbers game.

America is not fooled that 50 million more can be covered and costs and deficits will go down.  Even with the massive rationing they have in store for us.

Private insurers will eventually go under - as planned.
3040  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Media Issues on: October 04, 2010, 12:25:39 PM
"What you won't see on the MSM"

You are so right!

I notice the MSM could only say "thousands" showed up.

That was later in the day changed to "tens of thousands".

CNN is gving up on politics and becoming a politically correct *nutritionist* show.

3041  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Political Economics on: October 04, 2010, 12:21:39 PM
 "I don't buy that people can really change their thinking that radically, that quickly.  Not enough people get it economically, from my point of view"

I agree.  As long as we continue expanding doles like a cancer the slope of the uphill climb steepens.

We are going to have to work our ways out of this - not sit back and let government bail us out.

3042  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Movies on: October 03, 2010, 10:18:02 AM
Truther?  I didn't see the whole movie.  Only saw around 20 minutes.

I think you mean by this adjective he believes 911 was a conspiracy?

I didn't see anything about 9/11 in the part of the movie I saw.

Mainly he states he predicted the stock market fall,  the near collapse of our economy, and the sky rocketing debt and population explosion around the world does not portend well for the future of mankind. 

I think it valid to question the expansion of human population across the globe on a relatively small planet that does not have infinite natural resources.

It is common sense we can't keep multplying forever.  I agree the entire world could well be looked at as a ponzi scheme.  We keep expanding and growing to maintain a level of growth.

Look at the historical population growth curve?

Looks like any stock market graph just before a crash.



3043  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Immigration issues on: October 03, 2010, 10:10:56 AM
"And rumor has it she has problems getting along with others ($200,000 payout for "pushing" an employee)."

So?

Look at our President.  There are at least 150 million people in the US he cannot get along with. 
3044  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Media Issues on: October 02, 2010, 12:55:32 PM
Rick Sanchez replaced with ..... Elliot Spitzer??? rolleyes
3045  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Immigration issues on: October 02, 2010, 12:50:54 PM
"Whitman has a hypocrisy problem"

I am not so sure.  She had copies of ID and SSN.  She/husband was notified there was a descrepancy and she let the empolyee know to check into it.

I am not clear she was notifed person was *illegal*; just that SSN didn't match or check out. 

She paid this person well for her duties.   She paid taxes etc and other obligations for this employee.  If someone knows they are hiring an illegal they pay them cash under the table.  They don't submit work papers to the Feds.  It sounds like Whitman and or husband was actually being quite kind to this person and gave her the benefit of the doubt.  Yet for political purposes they are being accused of lying, treating her poorly and I guess not turning her in to ICE??

3046  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Immigration issues on: October 02, 2010, 09:25:44 AM
That is what I figure.

You can card someone, suspect they are not legal and then what?  Who are you going to tell?

And *you* may be the one in trouble.  Criminally and civily.

And whomever you notify will do nothing anyway!

It is like a couple of people who came into my office some years back at different times.  They had each swindled narcotic prescriptions out of me.  Their stories were not totally believable but I gave them the benefit of the doubt in case they were really in pain.  I called the State's department that handles this and the response was , "well you gave them the prescription doctor!"  They sent me some waste of time forms to fill out, which I did and sent back and naturally I never heard another word.

In short they could care less.

And that would be the result now with employers checking for job prospects' immigration status.

So while I do feel empolyers should have some obligation to make some sort of attempt at verification, No one will back them up anyway.

And that is why the Allred thing is such a big deal.  It is a blatant example of *in the faces* of rightful, legal residents and to think that this criminal illegal alien who is being used as a pawn could possible effect the outcome of an election of our biggest state.  JDN, you don't think that is a big deal?

It is a Democrat lawyer defending potential votes for the party they have bought and paid for.



3047  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / The end of the human race? on: October 01, 2010, 03:42:16 PM
I saw parts of this on cable the other night.  The guy makes a lot of sense.

He predicts the end of humanity.
 
Crack pot or genius?

Anyone else see this?  See trailer below:

http://www.collapsemovie.com/
3048  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Immigration issues on: October 01, 2010, 01:38:22 PM
JDN and Doug,
Yes I do agree on those points.
Getting ID verification from the employee by the employer requires some sort of enforcement and unfortunately, the gov. simply will not enforce ID fraud.
3049  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Immigration issues on: October 01, 2010, 12:40:12 PM
"and interrupting each other and both saying nothing"

It seems you and I will never totally agree on anything.

Your conclusion that Whitman was justifed is same as mine.

Yet, if you don't think that Levin doesn't expose Allred for being full of BS than I can't help you.

Levin cannot get a straight answer from her about the facts.  That is clear.

"I don't understand why this is a big deal"

I don't undertand what you don't understand.  The big deal is Democrat operatives are using this illegal alien to whip up the hispanic vote.

We the people appear to have NO say as to come here, stays here, and any ability to do anything about it other than make noise while being labelled as bigots.

That IS the big deal.
3050  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Immigration issues on: October 01, 2010, 11:34:30 AM
Good audio of Marc Levin interviewing Gloria Allred the Democrat lawyer using the illegal alien for a hit on Whitman:

http://www.marklevinshow.com/Article.asp?id=1970739&spid=32364

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