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3651  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Cognitive Dissonance of His Glibness on: January 19, 2011, 11:19:48 AM
But there was something about McCain's being born on a military base that was figured to be the inclusionary argument I think.
3652  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Cognitive Dissonance of His Glibness on: January 19, 2011, 10:58:34 AM

Well I don't know what he presented for his passport.  It doesn't appear it was any kind of copy of a long birth certificate.  Here in NJ one can get certified copies if one loses the original.

His mother was a citizen so isn't that alone mean he is automatically a citizen?
Again the issue is not citizenship.  It is constittutional eligibility for being President.
3653  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / entertainment on: January 19, 2011, 10:53:31 AM
Piers Morgan.  I couldn't find a thread to place this under.  Katherine and I watched Piers on cable interviewing Oprah and on this other show he does following rich and famous locales.  We both thought he is excellent.  Frankly much better than Larry King who perhaps was burned out.

He almost got Oprah to cry when he mentioned the program would be aired on MLK day.  She was clearly teary eyed.  Apparantly every interviewer has been trying unsuccesfully to get her tearful in an interview.
3654  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / "Birthers" may be right all along on: January 19, 2011, 10:38:23 AM
Wow.  Let's see the MSM deal with this now.  Remember Crafty you asked why on this board why doesn't Bamster simply produce his birth certificate and put to rest the questions of his birth place.  Now we have the answer.  His "long" version of his birth certificate cannot be found.  Just a written in notation. 

So what was the evidence he was born here.  Some newspaper articles?  Whether he was born here or not matters not with regards to citizenship since his mother was a citizen.  But it certainly does matter with regards to his eligibility for President.  I do not underestimate the possibility there is some sort of coverup.

Just stating that because the Hill couldn't find anything therefore nothing exists does not explain this.


Hawaii governor can't find Obama birth certificate
Suggests controversy could hurt president's re-election chances

Posted: January 18, 2011
8:05 pm Eastern

By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2011 WorldNetDaily

Neil Abercrombie
Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie suggested in an interview published today that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.

Abercrombie told the Honolulu Star Advertiser he was searching within the Hawaii Department of Health to find definitive vital records that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii, because the continuing eligibility controversy could hurt the president's chances of re-election in 2012.

Donalyn Dela Cruz, Abercrombie's spokeswoman in Honolulu, ignored again today another in a series of repeated requests made by WND for an interview with the governor.

Toward the end of the interview, the newspaper asked Abercrombie: "You stirred up quite a controversy with your comments regarding birthers and your plan to release more information regarding President Barack Obama's birth certificate. How is that coming?"

In his response, Abercrombie acknowledged the birth certificate issue will have "political implications" for the next presidential election "that we simply cannot have."

Get the free, in-depth special report on eligibility that could bring an end to Obama's presidency

Suggesting he was still intent on producing more birth records on Obama from the Hawaii Department of Health vital records vault, Abercrombie told the newspaper there was a recording of the Obama birth in the state archives that he wants to make public.

(Story continues below)


Abercrombie did not report to the newspaper that he or the Hawaii Department of Health had found Obama's long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate. The governor only suggested his investigations to date had identified an unspecified listing or notation of Obama's birth that someone had made in the state archives.

"It was actually written, I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down," Abercrombie said.

For seemingly the first time, Abercrombie frankly acknowledged that presidential politics motivated his search for Obama birth records, implying that failure to resolve the questions that remain unanswered about the president's birth and early life may damage his chance for re-election.

"If there is a political agenda (regarding Obama's birth certificate), then there is nothing I can do about that, nor can the president," he said.

So far, the only birth document available on Obama is a Hawaii Certification of Live Birth that first appeared on the Internet during the 2008 presidential campaign. It was posted by two purportedly independent websites that have displayed a strong partisan bias for Obama – released the COLB in June 2008, and published photographs of the document in August 2008.

WND previously reported the Hawaii Department of Health has refused to authenticate the COLB posted on the Internet by and

WND has reported that in 1961, Obama's grandparents, Stanley and Madelyn Dunham, could have made an in-person report of a Hawaii birth even if the infant Barack Obama Jr. had been foreign-born.

Similarly, the newspaper announcements of Obama's birth do not prove he was born in Hawaii, since they could have been triggered by the grandparents registering the birth as Hawaiian, even if the baby was born elsewhere.

Moreover, WND has documented that the address reported in the newspaper birth announcements was the home of the grandparents.

WND also has reported that Barack Obama Sr. maintained his own separate apartment in Honolulu, even after he was supposedly married to Ann Dunham, Barack Obama's mother, and that Dunham left Hawaii within three weeks of the baby's birth to attend the University of Washington in Seattle.

Dunham did not return to Hawaii until after Barack Obama Sr. left Hawaii in June 1962 to attend graduate school at Harvard University in Cambridge, Mass.

Conceivably, the yet undisclosed birth record in the state archives that Abercrombie has discovered may have come from the grandparents registering Obama's birth, an event that would have triggered both the newspaper birth announcements and availability of a Certification of Live Birth, even if no long-form birth certificate existed.

WND has also reported that Tim Adams, a former senior elections clerk for the city and county of Honolulu in 2008, has maintained that there is no long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate on file with the Hawaii Department of Health and that neither Honolulu hospital – Queens Medical Center or Kapiolani Medical Center – has any record that Obama was born there.

3655  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / correction on: January 18, 2011, 01:42:19 PM
"he should get away with this"

he should *not* get away with this

3656  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Cognitive Dissonance of His Glibness on: January 18, 2011, 01:25:51 PM

This is absolutely infuriating to me.  Clinton did this in the 90's as we all know and got away with it.  He would stand there with a straight face and say things as though that were the case all along - and he got away with it.  His polls went right up.  The fact he was a gigantic liberal for two years prior made no difference though I do have to say he never did get over 50% of the vote.  If the cans had a stronger candidate than Dole the outcome could have been different I suppose.

Yet here is Bamster trying to pull off the same scam.  So many said he is too much of an ideologue to do this.  Yet the Democrat team behind him are gettinghim to do it.
The jornolist media will drool over this con,  support him in every way possible - not call him on any of it.  And let him get away with it tooth and nail.

NO I am not happy this guy is supposedly compromising, he is supposidly learining, he is supposidly reaching out to the other side for the benefit of governance and doing the work of the "people".  He is full of shit, he is a liar, he is scamming us, and he should get away with this.  If team Republilcans cannot come up with a media strategy that calls this guy out, that does not let the left play the sob story game, that stands for America and explain to AMerica why they are right and this guy wrong than I will just drop out of the political process altogether. 
3657  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Suddenly the friend of business on: January 18, 2011, 10:42:28 AM
Like the con of Clinton I am beside myself watching the triangulation strategy unfold again.  How the public could let the most radical leftist President we have ever had get away with this I don't know.  But his friends in the media are already talking of a "learning curve", and his "growing into the job", and "maturing".  Now that he can't ram it all down our throats he is suddenly this.  And the swing voters will eat it all up and his poll numbers will go us and likely the Republicans who have no equivalent mouthpiece will not be albe to get past this and indeed are already showing signs they will cave in with compromise.  All the while the msm push for friendly debate on the issues and deligetimize any angry vocal opposition.  If Republicans cannot learn from history we are doomed.  I will try not keep posting about this. 

***Obama orders review of government regulations
            WASHINGTON (Reuters) – President Barack Obama on Tuesday ordered a government-wide review of regulations with the goal of eliminating those that hurt job creation and make the economy less competitive.

Obama took action after unveiling his plan in an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal in which he said some rules have placed "unreasonable burdens on business -- burdens that have stifled innovation and have had a chilling effect on growth and jobs."

The executive order marked Obama's latest move to repair relations with U.S. business, which were frayed amid bitter debate over his overhauls of Wall Street regulations and healthcare that some business leaders said would stymie corporate America.

[ For complete coverage of politics and policy, go to Yahoo! Politics ]

Obama has struck a more business-friendly tone since his Democrats lost the U.S. House of Representatives and saw their Senate majority reduced in November congressional elections widely seen as a verdict on his handling of the stumbling economy and persistently high unemployment.

It was not immediately clear, however, how far-reaching Obama's new regulatory strategy would be in changing the way the federal government operates.

Despite Obama's promise, the administration's legislative victories are producing dozens of new regulations, on everything from credit card fees to health insurance premium increases, to the annoyance of the business community.

Obama said he would require that in the future, government agencies "ensure that regulations protect our safety, health and environment while promoting economic growth."

He also issued a memorandum to all executive agencies calling for "more transparency and accountability in regulatory compliance" and a second one on the need to "reduce burdens on small businesses whenever possible," the White House said.

Business leaders say government regulations, including those being written for the healthcare and financial reform, have hurt job creation at a time of nearly double-digit unemployment.

"It's a review that will help bring order to regulations that have become a patchwork of overlapping rules, the result of tinkering by administrations and legislators of both parties and the influence of special interests in Washington over decades," Obama wrote.

The president, noting that small businesses create most new jobs in the economy, also said he would direct the government to make a greater effort to reduce the burden regulations place on them.

While vowing to eliminate rules that are "not worth the cost, or that are just plain dumb," the president said his administration would not shy away from writing new rules to address "obvious gaps" in government oversight.

(Writing by Eric Beech and Matt Spetalnick; editing by Mohammad Zargham)***

3658  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Politics of Health Care on: January 18, 2011, 09:44:11 AM
The Dem strategy among the entire political party and the complicit journolist MSM is now clear. 
They will *fix* the non popular portions of Healthcare (thus appearing to be compromisers while at the same time they will mitigate any unpopularity of their party).

Also, the Dems are already playing the sympathy card (scrapping this bill will hurt so many people, 127 million poeple benefit from this yada yada yada) and the cans are essentially silent.  Cans also have to meet head on the already multiple airway claims about why this bill will not help as many people as it will *hurt*.

The Republicans are already being outdone.  They should be hitting airwaves incessantly as to why the whole bill has to be scrapped and started over and the Dems cannot pick and choose and make every single line of the 2000 page morrass into some sort of separate topic for "vigorous debate".

I think we've lost.  I am not confident about our "leadership".  Boehner looks like an idiot crying all the time.  The first time was touching.  The last several times are bizarre - like said, the "weeper of the House".
3659  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / NYT journolist schpeel on: January 17, 2011, 10:50:46 AM
The NYT piece is the beginning of the jornolist/dem politician onslaught response to Repubs efforts at HC repeal.
I heard Bamster has said he would be willing to alter the HC bill.  Again showing he is the great compromiser, the conciliator of our age. rolleyes
Now he doesn't have free reign to ram it all down our throats so he is suddenly such a marvelous compromiser. rolleyes
If I can see this coming a mile away so must our Republican leaders.

Unfortunately, we are also seeing signs they plan on dealing with it by also compromising.  They may be afraid to risk being labeled the party of no and shutting down government which does not go well with the swingers based on history from the 90's.

Thus I think efforts to repeal/block HC will fold as the Republicans will try to meet or one up the Bamster with looking like they are working with the other side IMO.

A new MSM buzz word is "governing".  The republicans can either fall into this trap or risk being tarnished as "shutting down" government.
The two parties *MUST* compromise to do the business of "governing" (Not my opnion but  MSM).  Obviously the MSM idea of governing is ramming endless thousand page bills down the throats of taxpayers.
3660  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / all politics on: January 15, 2011, 12:55:17 PM
If most people who come to this country illegally and their children were potential Republicans and not Democrats we would see the entire military on the border.

3661  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Parenting Issues on: January 15, 2011, 11:32:32 AM
"What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their preferences."

What a great point of view.

Throughout my life I hear people tell me while I am learning something how "easy" it is.

Well sure, it is easy once you understand it or are good at doing it.  Getting to that point is hard work.

Like using email is "easy".   No its not when you are first learing it.  Yes it is once you know how to do it.

""stressing academic success is not good for children"

You won't find any Jewish parents telling their children this.

Many of my middle aged unemployed pts who cannot find jobs.  What can I say if they didn't finish high school let alone don't have a college degree.

3662  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: The Emasculation of Men In Contempory Society on: January 15, 2011, 10:10:07 AM
This story also speaks to the failure of the legal system to protect someone like her who is being stalked.
Yeah she could get a restraining order but that is not going to stop a determined guy like this.

You won't hear Spitzer telling this story while he rants about gun control.
3663  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / The most likely candidate for the "falling man" on: January 14, 2011, 04:41:42 PM
No one will ever forget that picture.  I just google around to find out who he was.  Apparantly most suspect it was this man.  His family reportedly cannot look at the picture.  I find it tear jerking and I didn't even know him:
3664  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politics on: January 14, 2011, 04:16:26 PM
Doug and GM,
Reading your posts is reassuring.  cool I hope you are right.
3665  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politics on: January 14, 2011, 03:38:39 PM

If that is what it will take to be rid of this guy then it is for our own long term collective good as a nation that the next two years see all of that on your list.

It is *that crucial* we get rid of this guy IMO.

The leader of the free world cannot be a con artist.
3666  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politics on: January 14, 2011, 02:48:52 PM
"Right now no one knows how far he will go with his head fakes, but his point in keeping power and popularity is to further implement what we call leftism, not to move to the middle"


The phoney one ain't fooling me or you or anyone else on this board except maybe JDN ( grin), but it is the swing voters who I worry will fall for the coordinate effort between Bamster's new people (Daley - a banker no less) and the jornolists in the media who will try and make  them beleive he is a centrist, he is a moderate and anything else is a myth made up by the looney right.

There were a lot of people cheering for him the other night.  They can't all be Democrat teachers who make up most of the Dem conventions.  Did you notice the lower lip being pushed up frequently?  Clinton did that all the time to con us into thinking he really was feeling pain in his gut.  There are obviously enough voters who are that stupid.
3667  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Dems and the journOlist strategy on: January 14, 2011, 12:29:30 PM
Watch for the jornOlist talking points to include this Dem response to the REp efforts to repeal Health Care.

The Dems and their media minions will be all out claiming the Repubs are trying to take patients "rights" away:

***Greg Sargent writes in the Washington Post  (1/14) The Plum Line, "At a House Dem leadership meeting last week, Dem leaders decided that" The Patient's Rights Repeal Act "is the phrase they will officially use to brand the House GOP's push to repeal health reform, aides tell me." Sergeant adds, "With House Republicans set to press forward with repeal next week, the idea behind the Dem talking point is to emphasize what repeal would take away from you -- and to position the plight of the patient in the center of this battle." Meanwhile, "Dems are gearing up for a major campaign against repeal, in hopes that it will give them another crack at selling the American public on the law by highlighting its most popular provisions and arguing that repeal would do away with them."
3668  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politics on: January 14, 2011, 10:40:43 AM
I caught Karl Rove being interviewed this am on Fox being asked (by that fox - what is her pretty name again?) about Bamster's being advised and obviously going to the middle.
I think Rove is in denial about it.  He said it is still a question as to whether the Bamster's heart is in it or not.
The answer is of course it isn't.  But his advisors are obviously winning the argument.  Evidence in support of this conclusion include the triangualtion speech at the memorial ceremony, the "centrist" (Rove's own description for) Daley for WH chief of staff, the deal with Republicans over the taxes etc.

This is exactly what I feared.  Bamster will pretend he is a moderate, pretend he loves American ("be all we can be"), pretend he is standing for us. The "swingers" who always decide elections in the national races will forget or not care what he did to us the first two years and will fawn all over him as though he was like this all along.  Clinton proved that is what happens.  It is a joke that swingers who cannot make up their minds what they want are the ones who decide our futures but that is the case.

Time will tell for sure but I guess Krauthammer is right that Bamster having just made it *more likely he will win* re election in 12 than not.  Though I completely disagree with him that it is because he is so smart.  He is just the front man reading the scripts.  It is the advisors around him, particularly the Clintinites who have been so adept at this.  And the MSM loves it.

Why the ONE walked into the room and she opened her eyes for the first time - give me a break.
3669  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politics on: January 13, 2011, 06:04:38 PM

I sure hope you are right.
I made the mistake of turning on MSNBC last night and I heard someone mention that Presidents giving memorial speeches goes back to Gettysburg!  Only could MSLSD compare a couple of people killed by a crazy man to Gettysburg.   And yeah right Bamster's reading of a script, for what, a half hour is the same as Lincoln's hand and self  written few minute speech done to honor war dead, and explain the reason for a war is even remotely comparable.

The service became a political rally when Obama came in.
3670  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politics on: January 13, 2011, 02:01:49 PM
"BTW, I think President Obama gave a fine speech at the memorial last night"

Did you notice he repeatedly did the lower lip thing like Clinton?  I never saw Obama do that before.  It was staged to portray emotion.

He tried to be more postive about America like Reagan yet show emotion like Clinton.

I suspect this means he is going to do the triangulation thing like Clinton and pretend he is more like one of us (in order to change us).

This worked quite well for Clinton whose approval ratings rose overnight and never went back down.

If I am right and Obama does this he too will win over the swingers and his numbers will likewise rise well above 50%.

Therefore unless the Republicans can come up with a winner who doesn't look like a dead fish and do promotional Brittany Spears and Viagra commercials like the respectable but very uncharismatic guy in '96 - we are looking at 4 more years of the Bama.
3671  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politics on: January 11, 2011, 09:59:11 AM
GM, I agree.  What amazes me is how the MSM makes it sound like the anger on the right is all being driven and stoked by talk radio and Fox, etc.
Quite the contrary.  I don't think many who listen to these shows are really that influenced.  I think most of the listeners are *already* the choir.  They are listening because they already have come to the same conclusions and we all tend to seek those who validate our views.

For example,  I have come to the conclusion that Bamster does not inherently like whites, Jews, or America.  I did not come to this conclusion after listening to talk radio.  I listen to talk radio because they have concluded the same and I listen to vent.  The left strategy is to belittle and deligitamize this frustration every way possible.  They decrie that it is "fringe", "hate", "bigots", "crazy" (birthers  angry), or misguided (Obama is really a moderate angry).

Even Joe Scarborough was essentially blaming Fox talk radio, Palin, Beck this AM.
I used to like that guy.  I don't know what has happened to him in his apparent quest to be seen as a moderate and fit in over there at MSNBC.
He must be having an affair with that broad.  What's her name?  The one who is the daughter of the ugliest national security advisor (to Carter- no less) we ever had in government.

I guess the only question remains is how is Bamster going to play this.  Probably his script is already written for him ala Clintonesque, "I feel your pain" and he will show "leadership" and avoid politics (let others do that) and triangulate.  The MSM will be adoring, drool and go orgasmic again, with quotes like, "this is what he ran on".

I guess I should be glad to have the President do that but frankly I am not because I know this guy is a radical dressed in sheeps clothing.

After being conned for years with Katherine's music by everyone and anyone I know a con (usually) when I see one.

Now that he doesn't have huge majorities in both houses to ram through his agenda he has ultimately been pulled kicking and mumbling towards the center by those around him who are desperately trying to keep him popular and relevant for 2012.

It is no accident the MSM made it a policy to show us how he read a biography on Reagan over his break in Hawaii.  No matter how hard they try this guy is no Reagan.
Yet the swing voters as I have pointed out are easy fodder for manipulation and persuasion and they will fall for all this as they always do.  You can fool some of the people all of the time.
3672  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / tu quo quo on: January 10, 2011, 03:38:03 PM
From Michelle Malkin's piece and explanation of "tu quo quo":

Tu quoque
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about the logical fallacy. For the historical quotation "Tu quoque, Brute, fili mi", see Et tu, Brute?. For the play by John Cooke, see Greene's Tu Quoque.
A case of Tu quoque: "By Jove, what extraordinary headgear you women do wear!"—ironic reference in PunchTu quoque (pronounced /tuːˈkwoʊkweː/ [1]), or the appeal to hypocrisy, is a kind of logical fallacy. It is a Latin term for "you, too" or "you, also". A tu quoque argument attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting his failure to act consistently in accordance with that position; it attempts to show that a criticism or objection applies equally to the person making it. This dismisses someone's viewpoint on an issue on the argument that the person is inconsistent in that very thing.[2] It is considered an ad hominem argument, since it focuses on the party itself, rather than its positions.[3]

Contents [hide]
1 Illegitimate use
1.1 You-too version
1.1.1 Legal aspects
1.2 Inconsistency version
2 See also
3 References

[edit] Illegitimate use
In many cases tu quoque arguments are used in a logically fallacious way, to draw a conclusion which is not supported by the premises of the argument.

[edit] You-too version
This form of the argument is as follows:

A makes criticism P.
A is also guilty of P.
Therefore, P is dismissed.

 :"He cannot accuse me of libel because he was just successfully sued for libel."
Person 1: It should be illegal to make clothing out of animals.
Person 2: But, you are wearing a leather jacket.
Person 1: Never smoke cigarettes. It is a terrible addiction.
Person 2: I just saw you smoking a few minutes ago.
[edit] Legal aspects
In common law, a legal maxim exists stating a person cannot approach the courts of equity with unclean hands. If there is a nexus between the applicant's wrongful act and the rights he wishes to enforce, the court may not grant the applicant's request. To illustrate, if a landlord breaches a term in a tenancy agreement and then issues an eviction notice to the tenant for the tenant's breach of a term in the tenancy agreement, the law might permit the tenant to stay because of the landlord's own breach of the tenancy agreement.

This argument has been unsuccessfully used before the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia in several cases when the accused tried to justify their crimes by insisting that the opposing side had also committed such crimes. However, the argument tu quoque, from the basis of international humanitarian law is completely irrelevant, as the ICTY has stated in these cases.[4][5][6][7]

Historically, however, at the Nuremberg trial of Karl Dönitz tu quoque was accepted not as a defense to the crime itself, or to the prosecution proceedings, but as a defense only to punishment.[8] Otto Skorzeny and officers of Panzer Brigade 150 successfully used tu quoque evidence at the Dachau trials to be acquitted of violating the laws of war by using American uniforms to infiltrate Allied lines in the false flag Operation Greif in the Battle of the Bulge.

[edit] Inconsistency version
This form of the argument is as follows:

A makes claim P.
A has also made past claims which are inconsistent with P.
Therefore, P is false.
This is a logical fallacy because the conclusion that P is false does not follow from the premises; even if A has made past claims which are inconsistent with P, it does not necessarily prove that P is either true or false.


"You say aircraft are able to fly because of the laws of physics, but this is false because twenty years ago you also said aircraft fly because of magic."
Senator Smith: It is important that we all vote for this legislation.
Senator Jones: You just said last week that voting for it was a bad idea.
[edit] See also
Pot calling the kettle black
And you are lynching Negroes
Unclean hands
[edit] References
^ Random House Dictionary
^ Bluedorn, Nathaniel (2002, 2003). The Fallacy Detective. pp. 54. ISBN 0-9745315-0-2. 
^ Logical Fallacy: Tu Quoque
^ Judgment of the Trial Chamber in Case Kupreškić et al.. (January 2000), para. 765
^ Judgment of the Trial Chamber in Case Kunarac et al.. (February 2001), para. 580
^ Judgment of the Appeals Chamber in Case Kunarac et al.. (January 2002), para. 87.
^ Judgment of the Trial Chamber in Case Limaj et al. (November 2005), para. 193
^ Yee, Sienho (2004), "The Tu Quoque Argument as a defence to International Crimes, Prosecution, or Punishment", Chinese Journal of International Law, 3, p. 87-133.
[hide]v · d · eFallacies of relevance
General Absurdity · Accident · Ad nauseam · Argument from ignorance · Argument from silence · Argument to moderation · Argumentum ad populum · Base rate · Compound question · Evidence of absence · Invincible ignorance · Loaded question · Moralistic · Naturalistic · Non sequitur · Proof by assertion · Irrelevant conclusion · Special pleading · Straw man · Two wrongs make a right
Appeals to emotion Fear · Flattery · Nature · Novelty · Pity · Ridicule · Children's interests · Invented Here · Island mentality · Not Invented Here · Repugnance · Spite
Genetic fallacies Ad feminam · Ad hominem (Ad hominem tu quoque) · Appeal to accomplishment · Appeal to authority · Appeal to etymology · Appeal to motive · Appeal to novelty · Appeal to poverty · Appeals to psychology · Appeal to the stone · Appeal to tradition · Appeal to wealth · Association · Bulverism · Chronological snobbery · Ipse dixit (Ipse-dixitism) · Poisoning the well · Pro hominem · Reductio ad Hitlerum
Appeals to consequences Appeal to force · Wishful thinking
3673  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Political Rants & interesting thought pieces on: January 10, 2011, 02:15:40 PM
"Are we to wonder why an angry, grassroots Tea Party spread -- or why it was instantly derided by our experts and technocrats as ill-informed or worse?"

Yet according to the media we should all stop our angry rhetoric, we should all hold hands and calm discussions,  "conversations" (using the term from the shameless Spitzer), all the while we are getting screwed from here to kingdom-come from the left and their elites, they steal our money, bribe voters with it, talk our country down here and abroad, fail to protect our boarders, unilaterally decide to alter our culture, our norms, our way of life, give our hard earned achievements away, and on and on.

That is why I say on the other thread that the right will not be silenced and that the responsibility for murders rests with the guy who commited them and why our politicians many of whom are certainly corrupt are owed no more special privileges.  Talk radio, Sarah Palin, Fox, Beck, and even Olberman bare no responsibility for the crimes.  End of story.

And like I pointed out my opinion on the other thread how brave some politicians are in Mexico who really do risk their lives fighting crime and refuse bribes can you imagine our politicians doing the same here?  Why they take bribes without their lives at stake here.

3674  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Gender, Gay, Lesbian on: January 10, 2011, 12:40:45 PM
Not surprising.

This is the next step after gay marriage in the ascendancy of the gay lifestyle as a choice and simply an alternative and just as normal as heterosexual marriage, child rearing, etc.

I mean we already have the rich gay celebs having children and becoming parents.  Elton John, the lesbian comedian (what's her name).

The MSM *celebrates* this as part of its progressive agenda.

Anyone opposed, is a homophobe, needs couseling, is mean spirited, a bigot and the rest.

It used to be gays told us what they do in the bedroom is none of anyone else's business.  I agree.  But now they tell us it is everyone's business.
3675  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politics on: January 10, 2011, 12:13:50 PM
Olberman worked on his usual day off over the weekend to immediately turn this into a rant against the evil right.

The fact that the killer appears to have had more politically in common with *his* opinions will of course be ignored.  I don't suppose he will get on the air and state he should tone down *his* rhetoric or of course try to pin the blame on himself.

A lot of people are angry in this country.  And with good reason.  Those to the right of the spectrum will not be silenced.

Like Doug posted, lets try, convict, and execute this murderer the one and only one responsible (as far as we know at this point) for murder.

3676  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politics on: January 10, 2011, 10:33:08 AM
"We (who survive) will live our lives in and out of metal detectors and cameras with emptied water bottles because of nutjobs like this one."

And now the calls from our brave elected officials to pass more laws for their protection.

We don't need any more laws.  It is reasonable for major security for the President but we have enough laws already for them IMO.

Last night on 60 minutes was the segment on the mayor of Santiago, Mexico who was kidnapped and killed because he refused to play ball with the local drug terrorists.
Now there is a hero!   Can you imagine any of our brave lawmakers in this country truly risking their lives to fight drug terror?  All the brave Mexicans who are trying to fight the terror they live with everyday because of the cowards and punks in this country who sell and do drugs.

Real courage is choosing between "silver and lead" as they are forced to do in Mexico.

3677  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politically (In)correct on: January 07, 2011, 03:12:56 PM
The interesting "Story of US" on cable pointed out many of the railroad crews were Irish.   They were apparently drinking while working - even when they were using dynamite to blast through rock to lay the tracks.

Some of them apparently wished they had been holding flowers after the many reported accidents including blowing themselves to bits.  I thought of the above famous photo when I heard this.  Hell they didn't need Al Quaida.

3678  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / what was political correct is now political incorrect on: January 07, 2011, 02:58:10 PM
I never forgot how my sixth grade teacher showed us a watered down picture of the following *true* picture in our history book.  In the book the picture shows the guys on the trains waving bouqettes of flowers!  The teacher told us that this was BS (He probably said it more nicely) and in the real picture the guys were holding whiskey bottles.  He was absolutely correct.  When the East and West transAmerica railroad line was finished these guys (many were Irish I understand) were getting sloshed on whiskey not throwing flowers at each other.  But when I was in sixth grade in the sixties political correctness would not allow school grade children to see the "great men of the American West" drinking booze - I suppose.
3679  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politics on: January 07, 2011, 02:48:46 PM
Therefore they would still be "illegal aliens". 

Well good question.

 I am thinking about Reagan pardoning and granting amnesty to the hordes that were here in the 80s.  Now there are five times more here (at least).

My undestanding is the President has the power to grant amnesty or pardon criminals (of Federal Law?).

So if bamster pardons them they may not be automatic citizens but sure enough they are no longer "illegal".

Notwithstanding some liberals are trying to twist common sense on its head and lose the term illegal and call them undocumented.

"He doesn't need to do anything it's already been done."

True point.  I think though a pardon would even make the path to citizenship a moot point.  I guess I don't know the legal technicalities involved.

3680  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politics on: January 07, 2011, 01:30:12 PM

"elite libs are absolutely sure they have all the answers and know what's best for the world and things like facts or the truth are just minor nuisances that they talk their way around"

Excellent point and how you expressed this.  They know best for the world and are going to shove it through no matter what.  They are adept at bribing just enough voters to keep them in power.

It is up to Repubs to be able to convince at least some of the Dems, particularly minorities, that crats are hurting them in the long run if buying them off in the short run.

I am convinced that if Bama cannot get some sort of DREAM act or something like it AND if he loses in 2012 he will definitely pardon the illegas during the lame duck period.   He will have nothing to lose at that point and his socialist agenda can then be rammed through with hordes of predominantly new voters who are more than happy to vote for us to pay for more of their benefits.  Alternatively, he will do it in a second term.  I have no doubt.
3681  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politics on: January 07, 2011, 01:24:14 PM

"elite libs are absolutely sure they have all the answers and know what's best for the world and things like facts or the truth are just minor nuisances that they talk their way around"

Excellent point and how you expressed this.  They know best for the world and are going to shove it through no matter what.  They are adept at bribing just enough voters to keep them in power.

It is up to Repubs to be able to convince at least some of the Dems, particularly minorities, that crats are hurting them in the long run if buying them off in the short run.

I am convinced that if Bama cannot get some sort of DREAM act or something like it AND if he loses in 2012 he will definitely pardon the illegas during the lame duck period.   He will have nothing to lose at that point and his socialist agenda can then be rammed through with hordes of predominantly new voters who are more than happy to vote for us to pay for more of their benefits.  Alternatively, he will do it in a second term.  I have no doubt.
3682  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politics on: January 07, 2011, 12:10:14 PM
Pelosi: Democrats Lost House Because of ... Bush!
"We still would have lost the election because we had 9.5% unemployment. Let's take it where that came from. The policies of George W. Bush and the Republican support for his initiatives, tax cuts are for the wealth, recklessness by some," Minority Leader Pelosi told CNN.

It is stuff like this that has me scratching my head.  There are a lot of Democrats who I disagree with but who do not say just utter nonsense and seem to have everyone behind the scenes terrified of her.  I can't believe it is just a wonderful "bedside manner" behind the scenes.

It must be mobster style politics with a LOT of powerful financed supporters.  Like play ball and we will get you the bribes to your constuents and send you money for your re election and get the money for the federal funded highway thru the district where you own real estate, or else we will reveal that you are downloading child porn, visiting prostitutes (that were set up for you by me "friends") or have a nice IRS audit of your accounts, etc.

There must be alot more than meets the eye.

Where is the journalism???  Or are they all in the tank or bought off too?

3683  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / poitical gamesmanship on: January 07, 2011, 11:10:46 AM
Just to deflate the crat rat argument:

I think Republicans should raise taxes on billionaires.  How many are there in the US?  100?
Just to stick it back into the faces of the crats who keep going on the tube complaining that the way to bring down the deficit is not to give tax breaks to "billionaires".

OK, so lets raise the rates on all those with a net worth of one billion or more.  Let's include Gates and Buffett and Soros.

Willl this then shut the rats up?
3684  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Politics of Health Care on: January 07, 2011, 09:56:42 AM
It is only common sense to think that adding 45 to 50 million people to the rolls will only drive down health care costs.   huh  I have not read it but the CBO estimate or whatever it is called has to based on multiple assumptions about "preventative" and "quality" care which are really code words for restricted controlled care.  I can even in my armchair gaurantee that these assuptions are based on magical thinking and are not based in any reality.  The CBO estimate is all based on pulling the rug out from the argument that providing health care to 50 million people (at the expense of all the rest of us) will not drive up costs or the deficit.  That is like our government downplaying the Chinese military build up.  I don't know.  Did our leaders always lie like dogs to us?

There is just no end to the tales told in order to redistribute wealth from tax payers to tax benefit receivers.  As long as 50% of the country pays no Federal tax this country is screwed.  There is no end to those on the dole who are quite happy to vote themselves money from the treasury.  Answer:  all people have to pay income tax.  I admit I am not holding my breath though.

****CBO Says Healthcare Law Repeal Will Increase Deficit.
The CBO analysis of the economic effects of repealing the healthcare law garnered much press coverage on Thursday. Many sources characterized the analysis as another bone of contention between Republicans and Democrats that will only intensify the debate over health reform.

        The AP  (1/7, Alonso-Zaldivar) reports, "Repealing President Barack Obama's landmark health care overhaul would add billions to government red ink and leave millions without coverage, Congress' nonpartisan budget referees said Thursday ahead of a politically charged vote in the House." The AP adds, "In a letter to [House Speaker John] Boehner, budget office director Douglas Elmendorf estimated repeal would increase the deficit by $230 billion from 2012 to 2021," and that "about 32 million more people would be uninsured in 2019 as a consequence." But, "Boehner brushed off the Congressional Budget Office analysis as emboldened Republicans, now in the majority in the House, issued their own report arguing that Obama's coverage expansion would cost jobs and increase budget deficits."

        The Los Angeles Times  (1/7, Levey) reports, "House Republican leaders quickly dismissed the new projection from the Congressional Budget unrealistic," and "some analysts have also questioned whether all the savings in the sweeping health overhaul will be realized." Boehner said in response to the analysis, "CBO is entitled to their opinion. ... I do not believe that repealing the job-killing healthcare law will increase the deficit." Nevertheless, "the closely watched CBO, an agency which lawmakers from both parties have historically relied on, is widely considered one of the most important independent sources for information about the impact of proposed legislation."

        According to Politico  (1/7, Kliff), "Michael Steel, spokesman for Speaker John Boehner, brushed off the estimate as faulty accounting," saying, "There is no one that believes the Washington Democrats' job-killing health care law will lower costs, because it won't. That's why we pledged to repeal it and replace it with common-sense reforms that will actually work."

        The Washington Times  (1/7, Dinan) reports that House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) also weighed in on the CBO analysis, saying, "CBO did the job it was asked to do by then the Democrat majority. And it was really comparing apples to oranges, because it talked about 10 years' worth of tax hikes and 6 years' worth of benefits. ... Everyone knows, beyond the 10-year window, this bill has the potential to bankrupt the federal government as well as the states." Yet, "CBO officials, in the letter, challenged that argument, saying the health care law will reduce deficits over the longer term as well," which "means repeal would increase the deficit in the long-term, too."

        The Washington Post  (1/7, Goldstein) reports, "The CBO's assessment, arriving as Republicans have mobilized to make the law's repeal the first major House vote of the new Congress, touches on a sensitive area for the GOP." Notably, "Republicans are vowing to take tough measures to reduce the deficit, although they already have exempted the health care measure from rules requiring that any spending increases be accompanied by offsetting reductions so that the net effect on the deficit is null." The Post says, "The CBO's analysis provided an early glimpse of the brute force politics spreading across Capitol Hill and beyond in the new era of divided government."

        The National Journal  (1/7), the Wall Street Journal  (1/7, Bendavid) "Washington Wire" blog, Reuters  (1/7, Whitesides, Cowan), and another CQ Today  (1/7, Ethridge) article also cover the story, as does The Hill  (1/7, Kasperowicz) in its "Healthwatch" blog and Medscape  (1/6, Lowes).

        Obama Vows To Veto Any Repeal Attempts. The Hill  (1/7, Youngman) reports, "President Obama officially drew a line in the sand Thursday evening, threatening to veto House Republicans' attempt to repeal Obama's landmark healthcare law." The Hill adds, "In a statement of administration policy released by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), the administration said that repeal would 'would explode the deficit, raise costs for the American people and businesses, deny an estimated 32 million people health insurance, and take us back to the days when insurers could deny, limit or drop coverage for any American.'"

Health Policy and Legislation
House GOP Unveils Several Bills To Repeal, Defund Healthcare Law.
The Hill  (1/7, Pecquet) reports in its "Healthwatch" blog, "Republicans have already introduced almost a dozen bills aimed at repealing, defunding and otherwise weakening Democrats' healthcare reform law since the new Congress opened for business Wednesday." Indeed, "in addition to House Majority Leader Eric Cantor's (R-Va.) bill to repeal the entire law, at least two Republicans -- Reps. Steve King (R-Iowa) and Connie Mack (R-Fla.) -- have introduced straight repeal bills."

        Politico  (1/7, Brown) reports, "Republicans reopened their battle against President Barack Obama's health care law, using the first committee meeting of the new Congress Thursday to eviscerate the overhaul as a 'job killer' and a 'malignant tumor.'" Politico adds, "The committee's formal mandate Thursday was to write the terms of the debate for the repeal vote Wednesday," although "the meeting quickly turned into a rerun of the past two years in both tone and substance, with Republicans blasting Democrats for their handling of the law and Democrats accusing Republicans of flouting their own party rules to rush the repeal bill to a vote."

        Chicago Sun-Times  (1/7, Carlman) reports, "Newly installed Republicans in the US House of Representatives plan to make good this week on their vow to roll back the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, the package of health reforms passed by Congress and signed by President Obama less than a year ago." But, HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius "called the repeal effort 'a huge step backwards' and said the act already has granted Americans freedoms they did not enjoy before it was passed, including coverage for pre-existing conditions, a reduction in employers' expenses and reduced prescription costs for seniors." Sebelius added, "Those are goals we've been talking about for years, and we're finally making some progress. ... We can't afford to take benefits away from families."

Senate Dems Seek To Counter Health Reform Repeal Efforts.
CQ HealthBeat  (1/7, Norman) reports, "Senate Democrats are joining in an all-hands-on deck effort to defend their embattled health care law with a series of hearings on the measure's benefits announced Thursday for the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee." For instance, "Senate Democrats also launched their own hearings to counter the heat on the House side. HELP Committee Chairman Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, said he'll convene the sessions during the next several months to highlight how the law benefits Americans. They'll probably include testimony from people who live outside the Beltway," and "administration officials will be asked to discuss implementation and experts will testify."

        The Hill  (1/7, Millman) notes in its "Healthwatch" blog, "The first will examine how the law protects consumers against health insurers. The committee also will examine how the law requires insurers to be transparent about rates and spend at least 80 percent of premiums on healthcare services; benefits small business owners; reduces the deficit; increases quality of care; reduces waste, fraud and abuse; invests in prevention and wellness; provides portable insurance; and expands coverage."

Conservative Groups Urge Dems Who Voted "No" To Support Repeal.
The Hill  (1/7, Millman) reports in its "Healthwatch" blog, "Groups opposing healthcare reform are urging 13 House Democrats who voted against the reform law to support the repeal bill next week." In a letter to the lawmakers,, Americans for Prosperity, Independent Women's Voice and the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons wrote, "If you are really against ObamaCare, then you will vote yea for repeal."

Physicians Group Asks GOP To Strengthen, Not Repeal Healthcare Law.
The Hill  (1/7, Millman) reports in its "Healthwatch" blog, "A pro-reform physicians group is asking leading House Republicans to strengthen -- not repeal -- last year's healthcare overhaul." Notably, "Doctors for America on Thursday morning delivered a petition, signed by more than 2,000 physicians and medical students, to the offices of Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) that urged the new House majority to improve the healthcare reform law." The physicians wrote, "We believe repealing or weakening the Affordable Care Act will move our healthcare system backward -- and we strongly urge against it." ****
3685  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politics on: January 07, 2011, 09:29:07 AM
Doug, PC, BD, and Crafty,
Thanks for your input.  But none of you have really answered the question.

You all point out achievements.  What I don't get is, 'what is it about her or her skills or her methods that makes her so effective'.

Doug's comment,
"I guess they all have behind-the-scenes-skills"

And this goes to my question.

What are her skills.  Other than being a pushy full of shit ass I simply wonder what it is she does behind the scenes that makes her so succesful.

3686  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Pelosi on: January 06, 2011, 03:15:16 PM
Does anyone understand or know what this lady does that makes her so "effective"  at shoving her will on everyone?

Other than being a world class liar I don't see any obvious great intellectual talents yet everyone seems to bend to her will and fear her behind the scenes.

What is the missing link that us regular people are not privy to?

I just don't get it.

3687  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: US-China on: January 06, 2011, 01:57:03 PM
A lot of downplaying about Chinese military build up in the press.  It is obvious China is positioning itself to dominate the East.  While we cut our nuclear sub ballistic capability and our bombers with Start China continues to steal military secrets and build up their military.  Yet our politically correct MSM decides that the big issue is humorous gay bashing by our aircraft carrier commander. cry  The Chinese have to be laughing as hard as possible behind closed doors.
They are slowly but surely wiping the floor and catching up to us while the media is focused on gays and hollywood celebrities feelings.  And the ONE has feminized our military commanders.  They are no longer warriors.  They come across as mothers.

***Monday, July 26, 2010. (AP Photo/Yonhap, Lee Jung-joon) By Bill Gertz
The Washington Times
2:26 p.m., Monday, December 27, 2010
China's military is deploying a new anti-ship ballistic missile that can sink U.S. aircraft carriers, a weapon that specialists say gives Beijing new power-projection capabilities that will affect U.S. support for its Pacific allies.

Adm. Robert F. Willard, commander of the U.S. Pacific Command, disclosed to a Japanese newspaper on Sunday that the new anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) is now in the early stages of deployment after having undergone extensive testing.

"An analogy using a Western term would be 'initial operational capability (IOC),' whereby I think China would perceive that it has an operational capability now, but they continue to develop it," Adm. Willard told the Asahi Shimbun. "I would gauge it as about the equivalent of a U.S. system that has achieved IOC."

The four-star admiral, who has been an outspoken skeptic of China's claims that its large-scale military buildup is peaceful, said the U.S. deployment assessment is based on China's press reports and continued testing.

The new weapon, the "D" version of China's DF-21 medium-range missile, involves firing the mobile missile into space, returning it into the atmosphere and then maneuvering it to its target

Military officials consider using ballistic missiles against ships at sea to be a difficult task that requires a variety of air, sea and space sensors, navigation systems and precision guidance technology - capabilities not typical of other Chinese missiles.

Asked about the integrated system, Adm. Willard said that "to have something that would be regarded as in its early operational stage would require that system be able to accomplish its flight pattern as designed, by and large."

The admiral said that while the U.S. thinks "that the component parts of the anti-ship ballistic missile have been developed and tested," China's testing has not gone as far as a live-fire test attack on an actual ship.

"We have not seen an over-water test of the entire system," he said.

Adm. Willard said he did not view the new missile as a greater threat to U.S. and allied forces than China's submarine forces, which also have been expanded greatly in the past decade.

"Anti-access/area denial, which is a term that was relatively recently coined, is attempting to represent an entire range of capabilities that China has developed and that other countries have developed," he said.

"It´s not exclusively China that has what is now being referred to as A2/AD capability. But in China´s case, it´s a combination of integrated air-defense systems; advanced naval systems, such as the submarine; advanced ballistic-missile systems, such as the anti-ship ballistic missile, as well as power-projection systems into the region," he said.

The new weapons can threaten "archipelagos" in Asia, such as Japan and Philippines, as well as Vietnam and other states that "are falling within the envelope of this, of an A2/AD capability of China," Adm. Willard said.

"That should be concerning - and we know is concerning - to those countries," he said.

Adm. Willard said the new weapons are "an expanded capability that ranges beyond the first island chain and overlaps countries in the region."

"For that reason, it is concerning to Southeast Asia, [and] it remains concerning to the United States."

Andrew S. Erickson, a professor at the U.S. Naval War College, said the admiral's comments on the missile deployment confirm earlier reports that the Chinese are moving ahead with the DF-21D missile.

"China must have conducted a rigorous program of tests, most likely including flight tests, to demonstrate that the DF-21D [missile] is mature enough for initial production, deployment and employment," Mr. Erickson said in an e-mail.

Mr. Erickson estimates that at least one unit of China's Second Artillery Corps, as its missile forces are called, must be equipped with the road-mobile system.

"While doubtless an area of continuous challenge and improvement, the DF-21D´s command, control, communications, computers, information, surveillance, and reconnaissance infrastructure must be sufficient to support attempts at basic carrier strike group targeting," he said.

Mr. Erickson said, based on Chinese missile-deployment patterns, that the new missile system likely will be fielded in "waves" at different units to meet deterrence objectives.

Military specialists have said the DF-21D deployment is a potent new threat because it will force U.S. aircraft carrier strike groups to operate farther from hot spots in the western Pacific.

Currently, U.S. military strategy calls for the Pentagon to send several strike groups to waters near Taiwan in the event China follows through on threats to use force to retake the island. The lone U.S. aircraft carrier strike group based permanently in the region is the USS George Washington, whose home port is inYokosuka, Japan. A second carrier is planned for Hawaii or Guam.

Carrier forces also provide air power in the event of a new war in Korea and are used to assure freedom of navigation, a growing problem as the result of recent Chinese military assertiveness in the South China Sea, East China Sea and Yellow Sea.

Adm. Willard did not discuss what U.S. countermeasures the Navy has taken against the new anti-ship missile. U.S. naval task forces include ships equipped with the Aegis system designed to shoot down ballistic missiles.

Wallace "Chip" Gregson, assistant defense secretary for Asian and Pacific security affairs, said in a speech earlier this month that China's new anti-access and area-denial weapons, including the DF-21D, "threaten our primary means of projecting power: our bases, our sea and air assets, and the networks that support them."

He warned that China's military buildup could "upend the regional security balance."

Richard Fisher, a China military-affairs specialist, said the new ASBM is only one part of a series of new Chinese weapons that threaten the region.

"When we add the ASBM to the PLA's [People's Liberation Army's] growing anti-satellite capabilities, growing numbers of submarines, and quite soon, its fifth-generation fighter, we are seeing the erection of a new Chinese wall in the western Pacific, for which the Obama administration has offered almost nothing in defensive response," Mr. Fisher said.

"Clearly, China's communist leadership is not impressed by the administration's ending of F-22 production, its retirement of the Navy's nuclear cruise missile, START Treaty reductions in U.S. missile warheads, and its refusal to consider U.S. space warfare capabilities. Such weakness is the surest way to invite military adventurism from China," he added.

Mr. Fisher said the Pentagon should mount a crash program to develop high-technology energy weapons, like rail guns and lasers in response to the new ASBMs.

Mark Stokes, a retired Air Force officer who has written extensively on the new missile, said the new deployment is a concern.

"China's ability to place at risk U.S. and other nations' maritime surface assets operating in the western Pacific and South China Sea is growing and closer to becoming a reality than many may think," Mr. Stokes said.

© Copyright 2011 The Washington Times, LLC. Click here for reprint permission.
About the AuthorBill Gertz
Bill Gertz is geopolitics editor and a national security and investigative reporter for The Washington Times. He has been with The Times since 1985.

He is the author of six books, four of them national best-sellers. His latest book, “The Failure Factory,” on government bureaucracy and national security, was published in September 2008.***
3688  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: california on: January 06, 2011, 01:40:32 PM
"it is also true that the Great Depression was a period of above average unemployment."
In  the 30's there were not 20 million illegals here working like there are now.
3689  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Israel, and its neighbors on: January 04, 2011, 03:09:12 PM
"officials hastily blamed either Al-Qaida or the Israeli Mousad"

Perhaps we can "reach out" to the dastardly but poor uneducated disenchated youth who do these deeds and prove our love by allowing a mosque be built on ground zero.

All we need is love.  The pepsi generation.

We need to get past the hate mongering.  That is all.

Well this is what we get with a bunch of 60's hippies running the world now.

3690  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Israel, and its neighbors on: January 04, 2011, 11:33:11 AM
***Perhaps you are right, but if they are so self sufficient, I think America should save the billions upon billions of dollars we give to Israel each year (America needs the money!) and also let's forget our veto in favor of Israel at the UN which we do at great cost to America.***

I've said I don't know if we can ask or expect non Jews to give a shit about Israel to the extent of money or blood.

You express your feelings quite clearly on this.

***I was pleased to see that many responsible Jews in Israel and worldwide agreed with me.***

Good for you.  I have already also sad youcan have your opinions and I don't care much.  Pleaseing you is not paramount.  What is is that the Jews don't get slaugtered again.  If your view counted,

or for that matter the Jew hating President we have now than Israel is doomed.

As for Israel's reliance on the US for aid I am sure they would wish they don't need it.  It does come at a price.

3691  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Unions on: January 04, 2011, 10:38:43 AM
And this is why FDR even in the 30's was against public employee unions.  They hold taxpayers hostage.  No surprise. 

As ususal the taxpayers are spit on by our complicit elected officials and the unions who have this attitude they are entitled:

***Union Snow Saboteurs Caught on Tape: Criminal Investigation Launched
Fire it up 32
155 CommentsEmail Facebook Twitter

Call it the "blizzard backlash."

Criminal investigations are under way to find out why it took so long to dig out from last week's massive snow storm.

Videos released exclusively to CBS 2's Marcia Kramer suggest that the clean-up job may have been dirtier than once thought.

One video is now in the hands of prosecutors. It shows two sanitation trucks driving down 155th Street in the Whitestone section of Queens after the blizzard without removing the snow.***

3692  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Israel, and its neighbors on: January 04, 2011, 10:08:23 AM
You've made your opinion clear.  I like you and have nothing personal with you at all.  But -
My opinion is that I am offended and annoyed and angry that Israel cannot be left alone by one billion Muslims.  I am offended that Jews cannot be left to live their lives in piece on one tiny spot on Earth the size of New Jersey.  I am offended by Arabs and other types of Arabs whose endless hatred of Jews never ceases.  I am offended that despite their haveing one thousand times more land that a few million Jews that is not enough for them. 
They have no more claim or rights to Israel or Palestine or whatever or whosever name you want to use for that small property on Earth then Jews who have lived there for 3,000 years ALWAYS having to fight for their lives.  Philistines, Syrians, Persians, Babylonians, Hittites, Egyptians, Turks, and probably a dozen others.

Leave the Jews alone.

Israel is not the US and not founded or supposed to be maintained the same political structure as here.  So what if the Jews intertwine religion and politics.  Let them run the country and defend it and PRESERVE it the way they want.  They know what is best to protect themselves - not you.  Like I said you don't like it don't go there.

I see no problem with Rabbies trying to encourage Jews to marry Jews anymore than the Pope need not go around telling Christians to marry Muslims or Jews, or HIndus or Muslims encouraging their young to marry Muslims.  So what?

3693  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Stock Market on: January 03, 2011, 03:58:50 PM
Yes it is venture capital.

I wish I had listened to Khosla when he predicted 90% of tech stocks would fail before the tech crash of 2000.
I thought it interesting that he feels the climate change pundits are totally off base by predicting that solar, wind electric cars will dominate.

He thinks it will more likely be a major advance in some already established energy not a whole new source that will be the big winner.
3694  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Israel, and its neighbors on: January 03, 2011, 10:01:15 AM
" Clinton, and I think he did wrong, had consensual "sex".  Or whatever he did..."

No, I was referring to the woman who stated Clinton beat her, held her arms down and raped her and was afraid to come forward because he was Governor of Arkansas at the time she alleged he did that to her.

As for Israel they have every right to protect itself as a Jewish state. 

You don't like it don't go there.

You think it racist, who cares.
3695  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Media Issues on: January 03, 2011, 09:38:39 AM
"Employees of news organizations including Time, Politico, the Huffington Post, the Baltimore Sun, the Guardian, Salon and the New Republic participated in outpourings of anger over how Obama had been treated in the media, and in some cases plotted to fix the damage.

Yes and they are setting up the Republicans now.  Notice now that the Repubs control Congress the mantra throughout the media is< "the big question are the Republicans going to compromise with Obama which is of course what the voters want (wink wink) or are they going to be the party of 'no'"?

I don't recall hearing anything like this when W was President and Pelosi controlled Congress in '06 to '08.

Notice the bias difference.  This IS the hurdle the Republicans must surmount.  If they cannot voice why they are better for America than the Radical progressive agenda pushed through by the academic, union, lawyer, media cabal than they will not win.
3696  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Vinod Khosla2 on: January 01, 2011, 06:32:24 PM
Unintended consequences:
Q: Policy choices can have unintended consequences—but so, too, can technologies. You are clearly a technology champion.
Khosla: A technology bigot. A religious, technology bigot.

Q: Are you comfortable with the unintended consequences of your investments?
Khosla: I'm fine with that.

Q: But what if those consequences fall on other people's shoulders?
Khosla: Look: I sincerely believe there are risks with technology. But I also believe that doing business as usual and not taking any risks may be the biggest risk we take. I don't believe we have the option of being conservative, of continuing to do what we've done. The only choice we have is which risks we choose to take. And generally, technology risks are more controllable risks: they're patchable.

Q: Do you want to make money doing this?
Khosla: Absolutely.

Q: Aren't you rich enough already?
Khosla: No, it's not that. I have come to the view that unless somebody makes money at doing something, the idea won't be deployed broadly or quickly. Competition keeps ideas fresh and draws improvements. Almost every well-intentioned effort fails in the face of human characteristics. So I do believe capitalism is the only way to solve the world's problems.

I am definitely an optimist-- a technology optimist. Hopefulness is a key part of my message. We don't just need to grapple with inconvenient truths—we need to keep our minds open to radical solutions, the more convenient truths.

Khosla Ventures Announces Tony Blair Associates as Senior Advisors
Former British Prime Minister to help innovative cleantech startups achieve a global impact
MENLO PARK, Calif., May 24, 2010 — Khosla Ventures, a venture assistance firm that focuses on cleantech and information technology startups, today announced a strategic partnership with Tony Blair Associates. Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair and his team will leverage his advocacy for environmental issues and his global relationships to help Khosla's broad portfolio of clean technology companies maximize their effectiveness in achieving their environmental goals. Founded by Vinod Khosla in 2004, Khosla Ventures is developing one of the largest, most diverse, and eclectic cleantech portfolios. Khosla Ventures views partnerships with large corporations, environmental and governmental organizations essential to maximizing its environmental impact. As part of the relationship, Mr. Blair accompanied Vinod Khosla yesterday to tour the Calera green cement demonstration plant in Moss Landing, Calif.

Tony Blair Associates will offer strategic advice to Khosla Ventures' green portfolio companies, drawing on his considerable geopolitical, political, organizational and environmental expertise. With Mr. Blair's support, Khosla Ventures will continue to foster innovations that can cost-effectively reduce carbon emissions — in areas that include solar, batteries, biofuels, lighting, mechanical and energy efficiency, and building materials. Mr. Khosla dubs their area of focus "maintech" rather than "cleantech," as he believes the infrastructure of society will be substantially impacted by technologists and entrepreneurs supported by his and other similar portfolios.

"Solving the climate crisis is more than just a political agenda item — it's an urgent priority that requires innovation, creativity, and ambition," said Tony Blair. "I share a clear vision with Vinod, one of the earliest leaders in cleantech investment, that entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley and beyond will have a tremendous impact on our environmental future. Vinod's portfolio companies are galvanizing scientific and technological know-how into businesses that can make a huge difference in reducing carbon and other emissions, and I look forward to dedicating a portion of my time to help them move us toward a more sustainable tomorrow. The Khosla Ventures organization is particularly effective in assisting entrepreneurs to develop and deploy their technologies all over the world."

Mr. Blair has long led on climate change issues, both in the U.K. and worldwide. He was the first major head of government to bring climate change to the top of the international political agenda at the 2005 Gleneagles G8 summit. He is a proponent of pursuing practical solutions to tackle climate change through technology and energy efficiency. Tony Blair now leads the Breaking the Climate Deadlock initiative, a strategic partnership with The Climate Group, working with world leaders to build consensus on a new comprehensive international climate policy framework.

"I have always admired Mr. Blair's early and consistent commitment to addressing climate change," said Mr. Khosla. "His goals align so well with our own mission to support disruptive startups in the cleantech space and to find technology solutions that can achieve unsubsidized market competitiveness for green technologies. We believe in attempting to achieve the 'Chindia price point,' the price at which even developing countries will voluntarily adopt these carbon efficient technologies. It's a price that is either cheaper than fossil alternatives or can achieve less than one year payback for efficiency investments, and is the key to scalable global adoption of environmentally beneficial technologies. With Tony's advice and influence, we will create opportunities for entrepreneurs and innovators to devise practical solutions that can solve today's most pressing crisis at a global scale while creating new jobs, new businesses and new sources of sustainable growth. Many more Google, Apple and Facebook-like new companies will be created in the environmental space based on breakthrough black swan technologies."

Mr. Blair's appointment was announced today as a part of the Khosla Ventures Limited Partner Summit near San Francisco, Ca. While on location, Mr. Blair will participate on a panel with Vinod Khosla and executives from selected cleantech startups in Khosla Ventures' green portfolio. Featured companies include Calera, which creates carbon-negative building products; Cogenra, developer of highly efficient solar solutions; EcoMotors, developer of high-efficiency internal combustion engines; KiOR, a leading biofuels company that converts biomass to high-quality bio-crude oil; New PAX, Inc., an inventor of high efficiency HVAC technology; and Soraa, innovator of highly efficient and affordable LEDs. Later that evening Mr. Blair and Bill Gates will speak to the Khosla Ventures entrepreneurs and limited partners.

About Khosla Ventures
Khosla Ventures helps entrepreneurs deliver lasting change through technological innovation. The firm, founded in 2004 by Vinod Khosla, co-founder of Sun Microsystems, offers venture assistance, strategic advice and capital to entrepreneurs with the audacity to take on what others may call insoluble dilemmas. Khosla Ventures' team members have known the stress of working through a crisis and the thrill of growing an idea into a multi-billion dollar company. The firm leverages that experience to help entrepreneurs turn technological risk into new opportunities. Today Khosla Ventures has one of the largest and broadest clean technology portfolios (including solar, energy storage, nuclear power, wind and high-efficiency engines), as well as holdings in traditional technology sectors such as mobility, Internet and silicon. Copyright © 2010 Khosla Ventures.
All Rights Reserved.
3697  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Vinod Khosla1 on: January 01, 2011, 06:31:57 PM
Interview in late May 2010 with journalist Elizabeth Corcoran
Venture capitalist Vinod Khosla is investing in energy projects from nuclear power to cheap battery chargers. His biggest bet: that all the energy pundits are dead wrong.
Leading clean-tech investor, Vinod Khosla, stepped up his game this week when he announced that former U.K. Prime Minister, Tony Blair, signed on to advise venture fund, Khosla Ventures. Blair will provide strategic advice about navigating the international politics surrounding energy production as well as make introductions between energy entrepreneurs and world leaders. Beyond the usual solar, wind and efficiency investments, Khosla's firm has been investing in a diverse and eclectic mix of ventures from precision agriculture, internal combustion engines, water, satellites to nuclear technologies.

Khosla, who began investing in clean technology deals in 2004 using his own funds, broadened his reach last year when his venture firm raised $1.3 billion from private investors. On the eve of announcing his alliance with former PM Blair, Khosla invited journalist Elizabeth Corcoran to speak with him about his investment philosophy, his belief in technology and his search for the elusive but powerful "black swans."

Q: You started Khosla Ventures as a private operation with your own money. Now it's a $1.3-billion fund with private investors. What's driving you?
Khosla: Six years ago, I didn't know how much innovation and renovation could be done to the energy infrastructure. Larger change is possible than I had ever imagined. We're working on everything from a nuclear reactor to a $4-cell phone charger for rural Africa built in an Altoid mint box that charges when you throw it into a cooking stove. That diversity boggles my mind. What's very, very clear is that when creative minds start working on problems, there are many more solutions than experts and pundits ever predict.

Q: You say the experts are wrong -- and wrong a lot. Can't we learn anything from the past?
Khosla: I personally only like to look forward.

Q: But surely there's something we learn from the past?
Khosla: What makes me a better mentor—a genuine "venture assistant"--to an entrepreneur, is that I have probably made more mistakes in building technology companies than most people on this planet. But I try not repeat past mistakes.

The problem with forecasts are the embedded assumptions. We make assumptions based on extrapolations of what exists today. Inventing the future is about upending those assumptions.

In 1995, there were billions of dollars investing in the existing telecommunications infrastructure. I was told by almost every major telecom company that the combination of that investment and other forces -- from the unions to the fact that the latest technology had to work with the most outdated switch in rural Iowa -- meant there was no way the Internet would change telecom. Less than 10 years later, the companies that hadn't adjusted to change were severly depressed. Even stalwarts like Lucent and Nortel were facing bankruptcy. AT&T itself was sold for a song to a wireless company. Invention drives that kind of change.

I have an almost religious belief that we're about to see that kind of invention and change in the field of energy.

Q: We had great predictions for alternative energy back in the 1970s. Those fizzled. Why will now be different?
Khosla: The underlying technology wasn't mature enough. The ecosystem wasn't there to support significant entrepreneurial activity. Nobody would fund a nuclear reactor as a startup. And most importantly, the intellectual horsepower wasn't there.

For the last 30 years, there were no fresh candidates for PhDs interested in energy. Today it's the hottest topic at schools like CalTech, MIT and Stanford. Five years after those students graduate, we'll see an explosion of innovation. So getting the attention of the smartest minds is key—and we've never had that in energy.

On black swans—and loons
Q: You say you're looking for intellectual "black swans," those rare ideas that can turn the world upside down. But how do you tell the difference between a black swan and a crazy loon?
Khosla: You don't. Arthur C. Clarke who said: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." You can't tell what's crazy and so we encourage crazy. I often suspend disbelief and listen to a story that sounds crazy and impossible. The answer lies in taking more shots on goal -- not trying to predict which shots will go in.

Black swans are extremely rare. We have something like 75 potentially revolutionary technologies in our portfolio. If there were 100 such investment portfolios around the world - 10,000 ideas - then five or six would succeed in changing the world's energy picture.

On Tony Blair and world politics:
Q: Energy policy, especially worldwide, is deeply political. How are you grappling with that?
Khosla: Creating new technology is a necessary but not sufficient condition for creating global change. Understanding local and global politics is now important for us, techie nerds. This is where our relationship with (former U.K. Prime Minister) Tony Blair can really help us. Tony understands far better than I ever will the political and geopolitical forces, as well as organization behavior and social behavior and change.

Q: Your former venture firm, Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, has relationships with former U.S. vice president Al Gore and former U.S. secretary of state, Colin Powell. Is this association with Tony Blair just trophy hunting?
Khosla: Absolutely not. If I'm going to build a new technology, I look for the world's experts in that technology. If we're going to interact with policy makers in Europe or Asia, I need a world expert in politics. I'm particularly looking forward to his advice about China, Europe and Africa because of my personal ignorance on the topic. This is about gaining a perspective we don't usually get in Silicon Valley. And that's become critically important in this industry.

Tony and I have a shared passion for the topic of climate change. That's our bond. He was one of the first world leaders to embrace climate change as a priority. He also has a serious interest in Africa, in China, in the Mid East -- all areas critical to the energy infrastructure. I think he's excited about using the lever of innovative technology in the global fight against climate change and in understanding how innovation and policy interact. I've seen his eyes light up when I put him in front of a young PhD student with an idea about how to make a battery that's ten times better than lithium ion batteries. This isn't about making money but about catalyzing change. I expect Tony's contributions to be significant.

On subsidies and the 'Chindia test':
Q: You say you're not a fan of government subsidies. But aren't some of your biofuel companies helped by government support and subsidies?
Khosla: I don't have a problem with taking advantage of subsidies if the government offers them. I'm a capitalist.

But we will not ever invest in a company just because it operates in a subsidized marketplace. Subsidies, quotas, incentives all help new technologies get started. They can be very good policy tools. But if the technology can't achieve unsubsidized market competitiveness within five to seven years of starting production, we won't invest. We believe we're working on global companies. Technology has to work in countries where there are no subsidies or supportive policies.

Q: Do you consider yourself an environmentalist first and an investor second?
Khosla: No. I call myself a "pragmentalist." You can't ask people to buy the more expensive product just because it's "green." Sure, you'll get 5% of wealthy San Franciscans or Germans to buy but you won't have that great sucking sound of massive technology adoption if the economics doesn't work.

Economic gravity always wins. I call it the "Chindia test"— what's the price that will convince people in the developing world to adopt these technologies? Nothing that takes more than 12 months to pay for itself works in India. Electric cars wont be broadly adopted in India anytime soon.

This is something that environmentalists just don't get. They've done a very good job of raising awareness of the problems. But most of the solutions they've proposed are poor, naive, and uneconomic. And they may, in pushing for such solutions, may have hurt more than helped.

The downside of environmental activism
Q: What's an example?
Khosla: Look at electric cars. We'll ship 1 billion cars on this planet in the next 15 years. But the chances that people will pay an extra $5,000 to $25,000 more per car are very slim so a majority will be gasoline or diesel engine cars. And if we do have electric cars, chances are they're be essentially fueled by coal (which is still supplying most of the power for the electric grid).

The focus on electric cars has reduced technologist's interest in reinventing the common gasoline or diesel internal combustion engine even if a new internal combustion engine could reduce carbon emissions far more than a hybrid can. By the way, we are aggressively investing in radical battery technology too.

So instead of supporting "electric cars," we should have policy calling for a certain level of emissions per mile. That would be a technologically neutral policy. Or in electricity—instead of calling for "renewables," policy could set a goal of so much carbon emissions per kilowatt-hour of electricity generated. That policy would open the door for innovations in nuclear power, in "clean coal" power and other areas.

Q: But I thought you said early subsidies could help a new idea get started.
Khosla: And I want to emphasize that the policy maker's job is very complex.

It's even hard to know when you're saying "geologic sequestration" that a more general form of it would be "permanent sequestration," which should have been the policy. No other form of sequestration was on the table at the time. Our transportation policy should be around "low carbon" transportation. That would let every type of technology—from electric cars to novel internal combustion engines—compete against each other. And competition is always good.

Game changing technologies:
Q: Some of these are technologies you're supporting. For instance, you have just invested in a nuclear startup, right?
Khosla: Yes. We just invested in a nuclear reactor technology. It is an unusual bet for us but we got convinced it could be a good rate of return.

Q: What are other investments that you've made that could be game changers?
Khosla: There's a company in Houston called KiOR that can make crude oil from a wide variety of biomass including wood. We are not talking ethanol, but crude oil, which can be dropped into any refinery in the world, just like oil out of the ground. Our cellulosic biofuel investments are all doing well too.

Q: How?
Khosla: The Kior plant uses a standard technique called the fluid catalytic cracking (FCC) process. The innovation—the magic—lies in the catalyst technology. The resulting crude oil can be processed in existing facilities, moved through existing pipelines and mixed into regular crude in any proportion. Unlike an oil refinery, which takes about seven years to build, we are just starting construction on a plant that we hope will be online by mid next year. By the time we build our third or fourth plant, we expect that the cost of this fuel - unsubsidized - will be competitive in a market where crude costs $65 a barrel.

It has no carbon footprint because we're taking wood chip waste as an input. You will get carbon emissions when you burn the fuel. But if the feedstock was naturally grown and harvested locally, then the carbon emissions are balanced by the carbon absorbed when the plants grew.

That's just one. After coal and oil, cement and steel companies are the largest emitters of carbon. We are investing in a cement plant here on the coast of California built by a startup called Calera, that captures massive volumes of carbon dioxide and other emissions from electricity plants and turns it into cement like building materials and aggregate. This company has the potential to lower the lifecycle carbon emissions of a coal plant to below zero, making it "cleaner" than solar, by capturing the emissions from the plant in addition to offsetting the emissions created in existing cement manufacturing. Today it isn't applicable to every coal plant but our technology matrix at Calera is expanding rapidly making more and more plants viable candidates.

A company in Troy, Mich., called EcoMotors, is reinventing the combustion engine. They have an engine that they've run for hundreds of hours that improves efficiency by 30-50%. And then there's New Pax, with an HVAC design that uses 75% less than current technology, and Soraa in Santa Barbara, Calif., that has been working on semiconductors to come up with a light bulb that uses 80% less power than conventional incandescent bulbs, which pays for itself in less than a 12 months. Soraa expects to start selling its light bulbs in 2011. There's no reason not to save power with those kinds of economics.

We're talking about innovations that are one or two years -- not 20 years -- out. I can't even imagine what kinds of answers we'll invent in the next 20. That's the power of entrepreneurship.
3698  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Israel, and its neighbors on: December 30, 2010, 08:00:15 PM
"Did you see the article in the Times on Israeli President Moshe Katsav." 

I doubt that any high up official in any Arab country would have been convicted of such a crime.  This holds Israel to a higher standard.  Kudos to Israel for holding even this guy responsible.

"Not addressing his crimes, but I found his defense interesting.  "Katsav contends that he is innocent and a victim of a political witch hunt, implying that he was a target because he represents Jews of Middle Eastern origin"

I agree, a poor defense.  Reminds me of every single poltician in the US who is ever accused, or proven guilty of any crime.  Their defense is always to claim it is all just politics.
And if they are Black they cry it is racism. 

Perhaps the difference between Moshe Katsav and Bill Clinton is the former case must have had more evidence than just an unsubstianable allegation.
3699  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Flu is here on: December 30, 2010, 07:49:17 PM
3700  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Politics on: December 30, 2010, 01:33:15 PM
"Many Russians here aligning with Republicans"

A number of physicians I work with are from Eastern Europe and generally as far as I can tell they are quite shocked at the left turn this country is taking.
They will tell me they fled Eastern Europe to get away from this and now Obama et al are doing it here. cry

I am so proud of my fellow Jews and their historical accomplishments but I am also so disgusted by the liberal progressive socialist types of which there are many and they absolutely ARE a loose cabal it seems in the MSM and in acadamia, and in politics behind the scenes working incessantly and relentlessly to shove their agenda down all out throats.

For goodness sakes Communism was invented by a Jew.

It was one thing as a well intentioned theory in, what the 1850's, but ain't it obvious by now it doesn't work?

We need someone who CAN convincingly make the case is that we ARE giving the country away. 

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