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3751  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Cognitive Dissonance of His Glibness on: May 19, 2012, 09:15:31 AM
"The failed ideology did not die and never was defeated."

That is why in another thread I felt Brian Wesbury is in a dreamworld when he comes out and states socialism as in Europe is in its death throes.  This ideology will never die.  Yes it may wax and wane a little but it is definitely the malignant cancer that cannot be eradicated.   We will always have soicalists, liberals, communists.   We will always have those who will call for the government to give them what they can't do on their own.  I am not against government.  But for me government is to maintain law and order, protect our country, and be an advocate of its people not control us, our soiciety, our culture.

As for me my government failed me when it couldn't protect me against organized crime.   When in my own life I needed help they wouldn't lift a finger.  Government is not the answer to every one of the world's/life's ills.

Yet there will always be those who will never admit this, or accept it.

Bottom line this failed ideology will never be defeated.  Only kept at bay.
3752  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Health Thread (nutrition, medical, longevity, etc) on: May 18, 2012, 03:52:22 PM
"Frankly, I would be happier if people left each other alone.  Let me smoke occasionally in peace outdoors and you can go to MacDonald's on a daily basis.  And let's not tax either one of us."

I agree completely.  Just give me my freedom and leave me alone.

That is why I am a Republican with a trend towards the Tea Party.
3753  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Fat tax on: May 18, 2012, 11:53:37 AM
 Oh my God.  Please don't start with a fat tax.  There is no end to this crap.  This ain't going to work  Make 30 million people deal with this to stop 2700 heart attacks a year - even if true is crap.  Liberalism is the biggest darn cancer:

Report: 'Fat Tax' Could Curb Nation's Obesity Problem
20 Percent Tax Would Be Placed On Unhealthy Foods

POSTED: 7:27 pm EDT May 17, 2012
UPDATED: 11:47 am EDT May 18, 2012

INDIANAPOLIS -- Health experts have been trying to combat obesity in America for years and have recently suggested a new way to solve the growing problem.

A new study suggests that imposing a fat tax on unhealthy food and drinks could help slim down expanding waistlines.

According to reports, more than 60 percent of Americans are overweight. Under the tax, a $4 cheeseburger would cost an extra 80 cents, RTV6's Stacia Matthews reported.

Some Hoosiers found the proposed fat tax hard to swallow.

"I don't think we should tax people and the way they run their lives,” one man said.

Others said a fat tax is palatable.

"I'd pay 20 percent. It's worth it,” one woman said. "I would eat a lot more healthy just to save more money.”

Researchers said a fat tax could drop obesity rates by 3.5 percent and prevent 2,700 heart-related deaths a year. The study also urged subsidies for healthier foods and veggies to make them more affordable.

Dr. Eric Wright, who heads the Department of Public Health at the Indiana University School of Medicine, said the fat tax falls right in line with other consumer products.

"We've applied tax to alcohol and tobacco and that has definitely shown through very many studies that it actually decreased use. So, the logic has been applied to fatty foods and preliminary evidence in Europe is that it’s very effective,” Wright said.

Researchers said Indiana spends $3.5 billion a year on obesity-related medical costs.

"The reality is, with two-thirds of the population being overweight or obese, that's what's driving up health care costs and you can either choose to pay now, or you can pay later,” Wright said.

Critics of the tax said people who choose to healthier foods should receive tax breaks and incentives. Copyright 2012 by TheIndyChannel.com All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

The following are comments from our users. Opinions expressed are neither created nor endorsed by TheIndyChannel.com. By posting a comment you agree to accept our Terms of Use. Comments are moderated by the community. To report an offensive or otherwise inappropriate comment, click the "Flag" link that appears beneath that comment. Comments that are flagged by a set number of users will be automatically removed.
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   – David
PERSONIAL RESPONSIBILITY-whats that-NOT IN AMERICA-its everyones elses fault
Today, 12:50:25 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate HsiaLin Boy
Hey US government, stop trying to play God. You cannot say with a straight face that you "care" about anyones health while you allow alcohol to still be sold. Alcohol kills more people, both the users of and the victimized by..... than any other drug in the world. Just admit you are looking for yet another way to get your hands on peoples money.
Today, 12:50:04 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate Jack
The problem is that they will get used to the additional tax revenue and then not want the money flow to dry up if people stop eating the excessively taxed food items.
Today, 12:49:48 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate Nilo Cantonjos
...and the solution to another problem is imposing more taxes?  
 
What about stop punishing the corporations and start focusing on PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY?  
 
To liberals... the solution is to always TAX. Kinda stupid if you ask me... but then again, the liberal's mind is so clouded with sin, they can't right. What is right is wrong to them and what is wrong is right to them.
Today, 12:48:38 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate Pat Kelsey
Come on November.
Today, 12:48:26 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate David
the sad thing is-thes so called smart folks-lie to the voters just to get into office-them once thr in they do whatever they want-then when we try to remove them-Senetor HERRIE WORTHLESS REID-they take the money stolen from us to payoff acorn and the union heads to put them bck n office-as a smoker-I DONT PAY THR STUPID TAXES-i save $25/carton by rolling my own-i dont have kids so y shld i pay for that SCHIP tax-heres an idea-IF ANY CITY OR STATES PASSES A FAT TAX,SMOKING TAX OR ANY OTHER STUPID TAX-THEY SHLD JUST MAKE AGAINST THE LAW TO SELL-THAT WLD SOLVE THE PROBLEM
Today, 12:46:31 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate Michael  
People are not fat because they over eat or lack activity. Ok some people are. But studies show that the majority of Obese people don't over eat or are super lazy. It is WHAT they eat that causes them to gain weight. And no I am not talking about just fast food, which definitely is an issue. But the fact that anything you buy at the supermarket is in fact bad for you. Yes, anything! unless you are buying all non GMO food, and non fructose corn syrup food. Also, Americans eat way to much meat and dairy.  
 
To tax obese people you are not going to change the problem, just earn money from it. The problem lies in the fact that the organizations that say what a healthy diet is are bought by the big food producers. Change your DIET don't buy processed food, cut back on dairy and meats, and of course exercise more often.
Today, 12:41:36 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate Britt Hall
If they really wanted to curb obesity they would start by limiting the items you can buy with food stamps. We now have more folks using food stamps than ever before and I challenge anyone to go to your grocery store and watch what is being bought with food stamps and then take a look at the size of the people buying it. These folks are buying pure crap called food all on the public dole. Again, don’t take my word on it.. go to your store and see for yourself. But, does anyone think any democrat would even suggest food stamp recipients should be limited in what they can buy with our tax dollars!
Today, 12:37:00 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate James Watson
The time to nip this kind of "thinking" in the bud was when the government started going after smokers. As a smoker, I have watched over the years as voters (many of them obese, junk food eaters) voted to raise my taxes supposedly for cancer research, though it was really just to feed the government beast.  
 
Tell me now why I should come to the aid of junk food eaters?  
 
"First they came for the (fill in the blank), but I remained silent, for I was not a (fill in the blank)...."
Today, 12:36:36 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate David
but if you vote rupublician you will get folks like Mrs.Snow out of Main-The sad thing is thr was a man running for the Presiden of the US who has spent his 35 yrs in congress fighting for the Constution of the United States of American and everyone put him down as a kookie old man-we need 565 Congressman Dr.Ron Pauls in D.C
Today, 12:34:49 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate T N McCoy
This is going to be a tax on the lower income groups, because they are the customers buying these things. Now, Obama is attacking the poor, the rich, the middle class, the US as a whole, and Western civilization. How much more can we take before Revolution occurs?
Today, 12:34:20 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate Jasonn
I am opposed to the NANNY STATE and the feds sticking their noses in my life. Stick to national defense and and infrastructure like highways and leave the rest of everyday living to the folks.
Today, 12:33:48 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate Michelle W
I need a Big Government Mommy and Daddy to shephard me thru life.  
 
 
The Government is what we the sheeple demand.
Today, 12:32:54 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate H J
here come big brother again. its not enough to impose higher energy costs on all of us to drive our cars, heat and cool our homes etc, its not enough for big brother to limit my water flow in my shower or ability to flush the toilet properly. its not enough that i have to wait a good couple of minutes for my light bulbs to heat up enough to provide some glimmer of light. its not enough that just about everything i do is regulated or taxed by the government. food prices are already sky high and when i want to go get an occaisional cheeseburger, big brother wants to tax me more too? Geezus H. Kryst!!!!!!!!!!
Today, 12:31:38 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate meeee
Maybe we should all stay home and let the Government deliver our groceries  
every week and tell us which day to eat certain things.  
That way we will be in compliance with the idiotic things they come up with.
Today, 12:31:33 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – ModerateMore
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3754  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Cognitive Dissonance of His Glibness on: May 18, 2012, 11:11:36 AM
"An "agent", BTW, "is one who acts for, or in the place of, another, by authority from him".  Not a pundit, stalker or casual observer."

Exactly.  The *first* jerk President knew this was on there.  Indeed one can rightly wonder if he told them he was born in Kenya for some reason as opposed they made the claim based on some sort of misrepresentation on purpose or by mistake.   But the FACT it wasn't changed till 2007 clearly shows he made no effort on his part to correct the dishonest misrepresentation.

He was milking the idea of him being born in Kenya for some reason.  I am not clear what that reason would be.

To have never contacted them to correct their mistake for 16 years - until - he ran for Prez - is not just strange - it is deliberate fraud.

But it won't matter.   The wagons have again circled around the first Jerk and he will be insulated.  

Yet this does speak to HIS character.   For a few who cannot decide who to vote for in November it might make a shred of difference.  But for the majority of those who cannot make up their mind by now about him - it will probably come down to what the gas prices are the day of the election.  I don't know how else to explain how the "independents" seem to keep changing their minds from one day to the next based on poll results that are all over the place.  Unless the pollls are just that screwed up.
3755  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Even a hint of honesty is not a Presidential job prerequisite apparantly on: May 17, 2012, 04:52:30 PM
I finally agreed with Doug and others that the first *jerk* president was born in the US -

 and now this.

I assume he let the literacy agency use the "born in Kenya" thing knowing it wasn't/isn't true??  Or was he born in Kenya and now he is lying?  Which is it?  Did he lie by proxy till 2007 or is he lying since 2007?

Who is the bigger scum bag him or Warren?  cry huh

3756  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Sunni vs. Shia on: May 17, 2012, 01:22:01 PM
From this week's Economist a look at the ancient rivalry:

http://www.economist.com/node/21554513
3757  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / From another Boston stalwart (in her own mind) on: May 17, 2012, 01:14:16 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/story/2012-05-15/women-contraception-abortion-reproductive-rights-doctors/54979766/1
3758  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: American History on: May 16, 2012, 04:57:01 PM
"FDR—architect of the New Deal and outspoken opponent of Big Business—was forced by the collapse of Europe's democracies under Hitler's blitzkrieg to turn to the corporate sector to prepare America for war."

I was just thinking of the parallels of then and now:  

The US in the great depression then and an almost depression now staved off only by the tarps yet still in the economic "pits".

How Europe's political, economic , and war time upheaval of the 30's and 40's resulted in the US coming out the powerhouse.

With their closest rival being the Soviet Union.

Now we have Europe again in political economic upheaval and in economic dire straits.   If Europe implodes the US again could in a way come out stronger albeit with China not Russia the rival.

We cannot expect nor do I even want Brockman to reverse course.  Simply he needs to be replaced and Mitt take us the other way.  To a better and more prosperous future.

PC,
I hope the movei gets onto cable.  Sounds like a lesson that those of us who have not served cannot fully understand and therefore should not carelessly judge the actions of those who have [served] in combat.

  

3759  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / bridging photons and electrons on: May 16, 2012, 04:46:31 PM
A nanotechnology that may be a future big advance:

http://www.economist.com/node/21554503
3760  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Morris is the MAN! on: May 16, 2012, 04:28:38 PM
 grin

The first black, hispanic, woman, gay President just ain't working.

He is going to have to add many more subgroups I guess to have a chance.

He may as well come out and say, look anyone not a white hetero male - vote for moi!

As long as Mitt doesn't muck it up which is doubtful - this may turn into a laugher. cheesy

I was with some very liberal, socialist, democrat party relatives for mother's day.  One asked me if I am still a Republican.  At first I responded by saying I don't really want to talk politics - we all know we disagree and I otherwise love my relatives.

I then added with a smile "hell no" - I am not a Republican anymore.  This was followed by a few moments of silence and I presume shock.  Then I gave them all a bigger shock when I said I am now a Tea Partier.!

We all laughed but one of them did say that "is worse".

Liberals will NEVER change, or ever admit they are wrong.  Relatives included.

3761  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential on: May 15, 2012, 04:17:34 PM
BD,

"I was on Food Stamps for about 6-8 months about 20 years ago.  I literally had no money, no family willing to assist me, and with literally no money no way to move to get a job.  It didn't help that I lived in a rural area where there was no public transportation, and the local economy was seriously terrible (one reason not to have local support as you describe is the potential inability for the local government to provide the goods that are needed due to local bankruptcy, economic conditions such as employment or drought or other issues).  So, yes, I was on the taxpayers dole for a period of time."

Thanks for sharing your story.  You left out a crucial part.  It is not my business but would you share how you managed to get out of your predicament?

You don't sound like one of the ones that Doug is referring to - who gets on public assistance and doesn't really try to get off.
We hear that no one "likes to be on" unemployment, food stamps, disability, etc.

Of course we would all rather be where Zuckerberg is as opposed to the dole.

I am talking about those who seem to get "comfortable" on the dole.
3762  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Health Thread (nutrition, medical, longevity, etc) on: May 15, 2012, 01:59:48 PM
"What can Americans do to stem the obesity epidemic?"

"we should stop marketing food to children"

Good luck with that.   

Look we would have to close 95% of the pizze places, Chinese restaurants, fast food joints, diners, restaurants, Chipoltes, KFC stop stocking supermarkets with every conceivable food from around the world, close all the bakeries, carvels on on and on and on.

There is no other way to do it than this or as I think the answer will only come from the pharmacuetical industry some day.

Yes we can promote weight loss, health and speak vegetables and go crazy legislating our diets and behavior.

That will have only marginal benefit and I don't want the "f" government telling me what to eat or not and how much walking I need to do with tax positive and negative reinforcing tax schemes.

That said I just lost 20 more pounds and am as thin as I was in high school.

Why?  Because I know what I need to eat and what not to.   And after years of working on it I finally figured out what works for me.

Most people don't have a clue.  And the government won't help.

And BTW, I do very little exercise.
 

3763  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The US Congress; Congressional races on: May 15, 2012, 09:32:47 AM
The silence from Harvard is deafening.

Shoudn't the school be formally outraged?
3764  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Warren's fraud is like this one on: May 14, 2012, 05:02:26 PM
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120514-717396.html
3765  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / The L thing again on: May 14, 2012, 04:57:30 PM
"Once upon a time that would have been embarassing and led to being shunned by decent people from across the spectrum , , ,"

Agreed.  I don't know when such outright fraud/lying became acceptable.

If we cannot trust our leaders than what hope is there for us?   

To think this Harvard lawyer at 400K per annum committed frauded her application and now runs for the Senate - what kind of example is this for our children?

No shame no apology no withdrawal from the Senate race, no resignation as law professor just obfuscation and persistent lying.

I don't buy the common declaration that "they" (politicians) lie and therefore that seems to excuse any of them that do.

Why can't we hold them to higher account?

I have notcied a few people actually using th L word on TV recently.  That used to be a no - no.  I guess this is progress? 
3766  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential on: May 11, 2012, 04:47:46 PM
On Drudge is the latest Rasmussen poll showing Romney ahead with likely voters 7 points.

Just my hunch but by Monday a left wing poll will be announced by the AP that shows it either a "statistical dead heat" or Obama still ahead.

Russmussen of course could be wrong but I believe they have been the most accurate in the last elections.
3767  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Political Rants & interesting thought pieces on: May 11, 2012, 02:32:38 PM
Interesting post.

Life is seems much more complicated today.

There absolutely is far more competition.

There absolutely is information overload.

Despite all the "advances" are human beings better off?

I don't know.  We could probably debate this for a long time and get thousands of different answers and opinions.

3768  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / SKorean nuc insepctor dies in auto crash on: May 11, 2012, 12:19:42 PM
Accident or murder?

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/155611
3769  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Military computers compromised in 2007 on: May 10, 2012, 07:21:12 PM
Last week on 20/20 or 60 minutes or one of those shows was a segment on how military computers were all compromised in 2007 by a thumb drive and "terabytes" of military and other government data was all downloaded to some foreign entity.   The foreign entity was not named.  I thought they were implying it was Chinses but this suggests Russian.  Basically they got EVERYTHING from what sounded like the entire US governnent/military.  

This sounds like what they were talking about.  They pointed out it was when W was President:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/26/technology/26cyber.html?_r=1&src=busln
3770  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Bin Laden dead on: May 08, 2012, 04:15:52 PM
"CCP,   I agree except that I don't remember if Republicans made big on that operational failure or if people mostly just took that as having had enough with a policy of dealing with the world from a position of weakness. To me it was not that it failed, but that the failure was a symbol of our weakness."

Good point.  Your probably more accurately depicting it then I did in retrospect.

As for you points about the value of "enhanced" interrogation I agree with that as well.  We will never get the libs to admit it that.

There is no rational logic to the concept that water boarding three people with no permanent harm is some such incredible crime against humanity yet sending robots (drones) out to assasinate alleged combatants/enemies and kill them like that is humane and ethically ok.  Don't get me wrong - I am not against either - just the illogic of one is so totallly outrageous and immoral and the other is morrally justified and within international law.

We never really know who is killed from these drones.  They are all faceless and labelled enemy combatants by the military.  Many could be innocent farmers or goat herders for all we know. 

I wonder what the outrage would be if W was still ordering all these drones murders vs a Democrat Prez?

3771  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Bin Laden dead on: May 08, 2012, 01:02:46 PM
There was a special on the military station this weekend on seal team six.  I believe it was a replay.  In any case the seals who came up with the six idea had their first operation in Iran in 1980.   They learned from the failure.  Jimmy Carter had the guts to try the operation though he was made the laughing stock by the Repubs for it's failure.   This time around Brock man looks like the genius.  The only geniuses were the Seals IMHO:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2011/0503/In-SEAL-Team-Six-success-lessons-from-horrible-night-in-Iran-30-years-ago
3772  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / The tale of two economies on: May 08, 2012, 11:20:53 AM
GM scores a three pointer against Wesbury:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47337188
3773  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: automobiles on: May 07, 2012, 05:04:04 PM
Early electric cars:

http://inventors.about.com/od/estartinventions/a/History-Of-Electric-Vehicles.htm
3774  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / automobiles on: May 07, 2012, 05:02:24 PM
First car 1888:

http://www.benzinsider.com/2007/05/the-worlds-oldest-original-car/
3775  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Oh comon on: May 07, 2012, 12:07:36 PM
" The end of the social welfare state in Europe is a precursor for the US.  It’s a Dead Cat Bounce for Socialism."

And out of the ruins will arise the most free market, capatilistic, expansion of the world economy that lifts alll boats the world has ever known.

How do I know?  Wesbury said so.
3776  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: European matters on: May 07, 2012, 11:36:50 AM
" Didn't we already have enough data on that?"

There appears no end to voters voting themselves perks from the treasury

----

Now on Drudge Oba-mao invites Hollande to WH with congratulations.

Probably standard etiquette but I can't help think behind the scenes they will give each other high fives while calling for "forward" together.
3777  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: European matters on: May 07, 2012, 09:46:14 AM
PS:

France is EXACTLY where Brock wants to take us.

It seems the idea that this is precisely why the Euro and its countries are mostly in their quagmire because of crushing social programs is apparantly BESIDES the point. 

It seems to me the socialists including Brock are trying everything they can to bring a new order to capatilist societies.

How else can one explain this?
3778  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: European matters on: May 07, 2012, 09:42:46 AM
Even the left-leaning Economist writers are afraid of Hollande in France.

To think that asking a few people to take public funded retirement at 62 instead of 60 (after 41 years of that job) is even too much for them to accept shows how hard it is for people to give up benefits once they get them.

http://www.economist.com/node/21553446
3779  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / socialist in France? on: May 06, 2012, 01:23:43 PM
Off Drudge:

"Hollande has promised to boost France’s public education system by 60,000 employees and reduce the retirement age from 62 to 60 for people who have completed a minimum 41 years of work.

He also campaigned on a pledge to give all foreigners the right to vote in local elections in line with laws already in place for EU citizens living in France. The Socialist has said he will balance the country’s budget by 2017."

This could be our future.

3780  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Zuckerman suspect of the Afghan policy on: May 04, 2012, 10:20:01 AM
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerman/articles/2012/05/03/us-credibility-on-afghanistan-is-dubious-and-suspect

Bigdog writes:

"I am saying that we, as a people, are tired of war coverage"  True.  Other differences were the 60's culture which included a youth backlash to the war with the drugs, the antiestablishment thing, civil rights, look "what we did to the Indians" thinking.  Most probably the draft at that time pissed of a lot of people.  Now of course the military is all volunteer.   I presume that made a big difference.

I remember growing up as a kid in the 60's getting tired of the daily counts on the 6 or 11 oclock news at that time.  But then again I never had to worry about the draft and I knew no one "over there".  OTOH I didn't get the concept of bashing of our country and troops at the time.  I thought we were there to fight communism and it seemed like a noble cause.   Our troops were risking life limb and their livelihoods and I could not understand the disrespect they got from the people who are now OWS and in power as the IVY elites now.

BDG I think you and I agreed in previous posts we would like our troops home.   IN Vietnam in retrespect while our intentions were good it was not worth the costs.

I am dubious about whether this war is either.  
3781  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Afpakia: Afghanistan-Pakistan on: May 03, 2012, 07:23:41 PM
BG,

Are you saying the coverage of the wars is not different during W's Presidency and O's Presidency?

Are you saying the MSM is not going after O the same way they went after W?
3782  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Afpakia: Afghanistan-Pakistan on: May 03, 2012, 03:11:37 PM
"You may not have noticed that since the mid-1970's there has been a bit of change in the media environment."

Yes that is true.  There were newspapers, some radio and 6 oclock and 11 oclock news.  So maybe the 24/7 news, media, internet cycle results in stories "blending" in or getting lost in the blitz.

" Also, remember all the pissed off conservatives talking about how the constant coverage of the body count in Somalia and then later in Iraq and Afghanistan undermined the mission?"

No actually, I don't.
3783  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Afpakia: Afghanistan-Pakistan on: May 02, 2012, 01:07:59 PM
Well Bigdog perhaps you are not old enough to remember Vietnam.

I agree with Doug.  Good for the NYS(limes) and USA today.  As for cable and internet yahoo news I don't see much.

3784  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / 33 dead last month in Afghanistan on: May 01, 2012, 01:26:47 PM
As noted on Drudge complete silence from the MSM.  I remember quite well during Vietnam hearing EVERY single day the death and injury count on the networks.   Remarkable hypocracy.  When W was President we heard constant daily baggering about Guatanomo and water boarding as torture including from the phoney American in the WH.   We have our own people dying and near silence.   I heard the ex CIA guy on Hannity speaking last night how he was offended about the he and others being accused of torturing people at the same time I hear the jerk in chief running around taking credit for essentially murdering Bin Ladin in cold blood.  Not that I care about Bin Laden but why is one politically correct but not the other - answer - politics.

http://www.unknownsoldiersblog.com/2012/05/bigger-than-day.html
3785  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Economist: A third industrial revoluction on: May 01, 2012, 10:48:56 AM
In progress.  Gigantic fortunes to be made (never by me):

The third industrial revolution
The digitisation of manufacturing will transform the way goods are made—and change the politics of jobs too
Apr 21st 2012 | from the print edition

..
 
THE first industrial revolution began in Britain in the late 18th century, with the mechanisation of the textile industry. Tasks previously done laboriously by hand in hundreds of weavers’ cottages were brought together in a single cotton mill, and the factory was born. The second industrial revolution came in the early 20th century, when Henry Ford mastered the moving assembly line and ushered in the age of mass production. The first two industrial revolutions made people richer and more urban. Now a third revolution is under way. Manufacturing is going digital. As this week’s special report argues, this could change not just business, but much else besides.

A number of remarkable technologies are converging: clever software, novel materials, more dexterous robots, new processes (notably three-dimensional printing) and a whole range of web-based services. The factory of the past was based on cranking out zillions of identical products: Ford famously said that car-buyers could have any colour they liked, as long as it was black. But the cost of producing much smaller batches of a wider variety, with each product tailored precisely to each customer’s whims, is falling. The factory of the future will focus on mass customisation—and may look more like those weavers’ cottages than Ford’s assembly line.

In this section
»The third industrial revolution
Cristina scrapes the barrel
Beyond battlefield medicine
Flip back please
Never again?
Reprints

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Related topics
China
Technology
Science and technology
Digital Fabrication
Henry Ford
Towards a third dimension

The old way of making things involved taking lots of parts and screwing or welding them together. Now a product can be designed on a computer and “printed” on a 3D printer, which creates a solid object by building up successive layers of material. The digital design can be tweaked with a few mouseclicks. The 3D printer can run unattended, and can make many things which are too complex for a traditional factory to handle. In time, these amazing machines may be able to make almost anything, anywhere—from your garage to an African village.

The applications of 3D printing are especially mind-boggling. Already, hearing aids and high-tech parts of military jets are being printed in customised shapes. The geography of supply chains will change. An engineer working in the middle of a desert who finds he lacks a certain tool no longer has to have it delivered from the nearest city. He can simply download the design and print it. The days when projects ground to a halt for want of a piece of kit, or when customers complained that they could no longer find spare parts for things they had bought, will one day seem quaint.

Other changes are nearly as momentous. New materials are lighter, stronger and more durable than the old ones. Carbon fibre is replacing steel and aluminium in products ranging from aeroplanes to mountain bikes. New techniques let engineers shape objects at a tiny scale. Nanotechnology is giving products enhanced features, such as bandages that help heal cuts, engines that run more efficiently and crockery that cleans more easily. Genetically engineered viruses are being developed to make items such as batteries. And with the internet allowing ever more designers to collaborate on new products, the barriers to entry are falling. Ford needed heaps of capital to build his colossal River Rouge factory; his modern equivalent can start with little besides a laptop and a hunger to invent.

Like all revolutions, this one will be disruptive. Digital technology has already rocked the media and retailing industries, just as cotton mills crushed hand looms and the Model T put farriers out of work. Many people will look at the factories of the future and shudder. They will not be full of grimy machines manned by men in oily overalls. Many will be squeaky clean—and almost deserted. Some carmakers already produce twice as many vehicles per employee as they did only a decade or so ago. Most jobs will not be on the factory floor but in the offices nearby, which will be full of designers, engineers, IT specialists, logistics experts, marketing staff and other professionals. The manufacturing jobs of the future will require more skills. Many dull, repetitive tasks will become obsolete: you no longer need riveters when a product has no rivets.

The revolution will affect not only how things are made, but where. Factories used to move to low-wage countries to curb labour costs. But labour costs are growing less and less important: a $499 first-generation iPad included only about $33 of manufacturing labour, of which the final assembly in China accounted for just $8. Offshore production is increasingly moving back to rich countries not because Chinese wages are rising, but because companies now want to be closer to their customers so that they can respond more quickly to changes in demand. And some products are so sophisticated that it helps to have the people who design them and the people who make them in the same place. The Boston Consulting Group reckons that in areas such as transport, computers, fabricated metals and machinery, 10-30% of the goods that America now imports from China could be made at home by 2020, boosting American output by $20 billion-55 billion a year.

The shock of the new

Consumers will have little difficulty adapting to the new age of better products, swiftly delivered. Governments, however, may find it harder. Their instinct is to protect industries and companies that already exist, not the upstarts that would destroy them. They shower old factories with subsidies and bully bosses who want to move production abroad. They spend billions backing the new technologies which they, in their wisdom, think will prevail. And they cling to a romantic belief that manufacturing is superior to services, let alone finance.

None of this makes sense. The lines between manufacturing and services are blurring. Rolls-Royce no longer sells jet engines; it sells the hours that each engine is actually thrusting an aeroplane through the sky. Governments have always been lousy at picking winners, and they are likely to become more so, as legions of entrepreneurs and tinkerers swap designs online, turn them into products at home and market them globally from a garage. As the revolution rages, governments should stick to the basics: better schools for a skilled workforce, clear rules and a level playing field for enterprises of all kinds. Leave the rest to the revolutionaries.

3786  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: california on: May 01, 2012, 09:57:44 AM
JDN writes,

"Yes, I agree, it is difficult to always be cheerful about this states future. We do have our problems.  That said, in some ways I am glad so many are leaving."

I recall reading in the Economist that if California stopped every government service they offer the debt is so large in wouldn't evn make a dent. 

JDN's post is a certainly proof that socialism/liberalism/progressive or what ever label they want to call themselves to hide who they are is a disease.  A cancer without end.   Not you personally JDN , but your politics.

Don't worry be happy.  The rich can pay for all of us.
3787  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Nor will wringing every drop of oil from the OBL thing help BO on: April 27, 2012, 04:03:48 PM
GM "pandering" not helping.

  I agree.  Nor will this.   So what has BO done for us lately.  This is OLD news and while good news not worthy of re-election.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2012/04/obama-holds-bin-laden-interview-in-situation-room-121873.html
3788  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / The smartest guy I know on the economy on: April 26, 2012, 07:03:38 PM
Of course the man who said this was thinking he is the smartest guy on everything else:

Good article by Jonah Goldberg on Corzine and Obama.

http://www.nationalreview.com/author/56454/latest
3789  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / iran got INTACT drone on: April 26, 2012, 06:07:24 PM
From another thread - my thinking was suppose the military let them have a drone with phoney or misleading construction or hardware/software/codes etc.   Let Iran think they can crack our codes when in fact this will lead them off base.  Perhaps we are not that smart.......

Also I wondered if this was some sort of show for the Israeli's that "you see we are serious about watching your back we are actually sending drones over Iran....."

OTOH it could be a total screw up and we lost a drone to Iran because it was defective, they did hack into its control mechanism, or something like that.

I would like to think it is a brilliant feint.


  ******Drone "captured" intact?
« Reply #533 on: Today at 12:14:50 PM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a thought.   Suppose the US military LET Iran have the drone?  For political and military reasons.

*****Iran capture US drone by hacking its GPS signal?
16:04 16 December 2011
AerospaceHackingPoliticsJeff Hecht, consultant

(Image: ABACA/Press Association Images)

How did Iran manage to capture a US robotic surveillance plane, which looks remarkably undamaged in an Iranian video? The US initially claimed the drone went astray over Afghanistan and blamed a malfunction, but Iran said it had brought the craft down 200 kilometres inside its border earlier this month.


Now the Christian Science Monitor reports that Iran jammed GPS signals and fooled the drone into landing at an Iranian base. "The GPS navigation is the weakest point," an unnamed Iranian engineer analysing the captured drone told a Monitor correspondent inside Iran. "By putting noise [jamming] on the communications, you force the bird into autopilot. This is where the bird loses its brain."

Once the drone lost its bearings, the engineer said, Iranians were able to reprogram its internal mapping system to think that its home base was an Iranian site at almost the same altitude. He added that the slight mismatch in altitude caused a rough landing that damaged the robot plane's landing gear and underside.

GPS signals are broadcast by satellites, so they are weak near the ground. That makes them vulnerable to interference from stronger nearby signals. Even military versions of GPS are vulnerable to electronic warfare, which usually seeks to disable key systems to bring down a plane. The Iranians claim to have taken that one step further by electronically capturing control of the remotely controlled robot craft.  A former Navy specialist told the Monitor that hostilely reprogramming a GPS to fly to a different home is "certainly possible".

Built by defense contractor Lockheed Martin, the RQ-170 Sentinel craft is a high-flying surveillance craft, which uses stealth technology to elude detection. Although details are classified, some information has leaked, including photos which match those shown by Iran.

At the time the US lost control, it was operated by the CIA. With no US controller operating it, the unmanned aircraft should have crashed - yet the one Iran displayed showed only a dent, although its landing gear was hidden.

If that's what happened to the CIA's Sentinel, it's going to prompt some serious rethinking of how to wage robotic warfare. You don't want the enemy to be able to capture and reprogram your robots so they fight you.*****


 
3790  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Drone "captured" intact? on: April 26, 2012, 02:14:50 PM
Just a thought.   Suppose the US military LET Iran have the drone?  For political and military reasons.

*****Iran capture US drone by hacking its GPS signal?
16:04 16 December 2011
AerospaceHackingPoliticsJeff Hecht, consultant

(Image: ABACA/Press Association Images)

How did Iran manage to capture a US robotic surveillance plane, which looks remarkably undamaged in an Iranian video? The US initially claimed the drone went astray over Afghanistan and blamed a malfunction, but Iran said it had brought the craft down 200 kilometres inside its border earlier this month.


Now the Christian Science Monitor reports that Iran jammed GPS signals and fooled the drone into landing at an Iranian base. "The GPS navigation is the weakest point," an unnamed Iranian engineer analysing the captured drone told a Monitor correspondent inside Iran. "By putting noise [jamming] on the communications, you force the bird into autopilot. This is where the bird loses its brain."

Once the drone lost its bearings, the engineer said, Iranians were able to reprogram its internal mapping system to think that its home base was an Iranian site at almost the same altitude. He added that the slight mismatch in altitude caused a rough landing that damaged the robot plane's landing gear and underside.

GPS signals are broadcast by satellites, so they are weak near the ground. That makes them vulnerable to interference from stronger nearby signals. Even military versions of GPS are vulnerable to electronic warfare, which usually seeks to disable key systems to bring down a plane. The Iranians claim to have taken that one step further by electronically capturing control of the remotely controlled robot craft.  A former Navy specialist told the Monitor that hostilely reprogramming a GPS to fly to a different home is "certainly possible".

Built by defense contractor Lockheed Martin, the RQ-170 Sentinel craft is a high-flying surveillance craft, which uses stealth technology to elude detection. Although details are classified, some information has leaked, including photos which match those shown by Iran.

At the time the US lost control, it was operated by the CIA. With no US controller operating it, the unmanned aircraft should have crashed - yet the one Iran displayed showed only a dent, although its landing gear was hidden.

If that's what happened to the CIA's Sentinel, it's going to prompt some serious rethinking of how to wage robotic warfare. You don't want the enemy to be able to capture and reprogram your robots so they fight you.


tagsCIAdroneGPShackIran 
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29 Comments
All comments should respect the New Scientist House Rules. If you think a particular comment breaks these rules then please let us know, quoting the comment in question.
inventor on December 16, 2011 5:25 PM
I've been warning people about that a long time. The US department of defense is crazy to use open source windows software to control military drones. Were they on drugs?

 
dominic vautier on December 16, 2011 7:39 PM
Drones like this can fly all by themselves and have redundant means of navigation. If something unexpected happens such as an attempt to take over control the drown goes dark and flies back home. It does not depend on gps or even the special military gps. It can use topography to get home and that is the main way it works since it can’t be fooled.

I find it incredible that the Iranians got this bird. The number one defensive goal of our military was to protect our investment so we use the best technique which is topography, not gps. We are so good at designing these things. How did they get it? That is the big question. It was not by jamming gps or breaking the tether or fooling the bird. It was some other way.


 
farhang on December 16, 2011 7:49 PM
The U.S should not send its drone some 250 kilometers inside Iran. What if Iran had done such a thing, it would have been called a "provocation". Since America's military satellites scan all over Iran then why the drone should be here?

 
Jason on December 16, 2011 7:56 PM
The most amazing thing for me is that it didn't have self-destruct.

 
Enola on December 16, 2011 10:31 PM
Dominic suggested that the drone can't be fooled. I have some suggestions:

. Maybe it is just a fibre glass model to spread false news.
. Maybe the US is letting them spread that false news to up the ante so that Iran can be perceived as increasingly belligerent ahead of a war.

. Maybe the US wanted that drone to be caught for the reason above.
. Maybe they let them have it to underestimate their technology.
. Maybe it is secretly transmitting back to the US the Iranian's reverse engineering technology and the people doing it.

. If it is genuine, why did Iran let them know they caught one. Newer ones will now be upgraded.

Finally,
. Maybe it was not caught but snared in the air and brought down.

 
pres on December 16, 2011 10:46 PM
Whatever, if the US did not want them to have it then it was, at least, some payback for the US/Israeli STUXNET debacle.

 
sniper310 on December 17, 2011 5:02 AM
Stupid.. at least they should have have an auto fry for the electronics. Some brainless pilot must have went out for a cup of coffee. Was probably brought down by a high altitude jamming/intercept source.

 
GKZH on December 17, 2011 7:11 AM
But how iranian knew that there is a flying object to start interfere in it's brain?

 
Mark on December 17, 2011 8:51 AM
New land based GPS technology such as GPS 2.0 created by an Australian private company Locata would have prevented this hijacking of the satellite GPS signal.

Radio reception a terrestrial GPS beacon has 1 billion times the signal strength of a satellite GPS beacon - in normal civilian applications - making jaming harder to do..

 
morteza on December 17, 2011 11:49 AM
We, as iranians, are not your enemies as you mentioned in the last sentence. that was random and rude. Surveillance or spy bird, whatever you call it, was caught over another country, this does not make that country an enemy, and give you permission to start a new war.

 
Peter jackson on December 17, 2011 3:33 PM
Wow it is Possible ....!...........if it is possible, that is an incredible but extremly dangerous.....beware of this things.

 
d on December 17, 2011 3:41 PM
The build quality of the plane looks rather low

 
jemand on December 17, 2011 4:56 PM
If this bird is real and represents state of the art stealth aero-tech, then what will China do for Iran to get it's hands on it? Then again, it might be a decoy to test Chinese intelligence contacts with Iran. The possibilities are almost endless.

 
David Oldfield on December 17, 2011 6:43 PM
Anything that can be programmed, can be re-programmed.
That incudes planes and people.

 
GreenBoy on December 17, 2011 10:03 PM
I'm Iranian. I am completely against Iran's government. but I want to add some comments:
1- Was it fair to send a surveillance aircraft to Iran? Is it for or against human rights?
2- How did Iran know the presence of the RQ-170 on its air? It may be just an invention made by Iran government.
3- I know this government. They are master of doing such these.

 
Ham on December 18, 2011 5:05 AM
I wonder what pilots have to say about this? How would this have been handled if it had be a real person in the cockpit? One also wonders that if GPS can be hijacked by enemies, then can those enemies eventually turn around a fleet of drones and have them attack the sender countries? Or fly into targets?
Hamilton

 
Gigawatt on December 18, 2011 11:07 AM
SkyNet

 
Sean on December 18, 2011 10:52 PM
I agree with morteza and GreenBoy. Iran is not an enemy. It's only paranoid America that thinks it is and so they send those drones over Iran to spy on them. If it was the other way round then America would blast Iran all over the media and Iran would be a radioactive wasteland within minutes. I am sick of all this talk about how Iran is building a nuclear arsenal, so what if they are? What possible threat could they pose to America with it's thousands of missiles? Stop building this tension to fever pitch and just leave them alone!

 
Anon on December 19, 2011 2:11 AM
A former Navy specialist told the Monitor that hostilely reprogramming a GPS to fly to a different home is "certainly possible".

Maybe that's why he's not a specialist anymore. Jam the feeble GPS signals? Sure. Fool a military GPS receiver with false signals? Highly unlikely.

 
@Sean on December 19, 2011 2:16 AM
"Iran would be a radioactive wasteland within minutes."

Yes, because, as the first country with nuclear weapons, the United States has used them on
3791  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Media Issues on: April 26, 2012, 02:02:46 PM
***Blow writes: "as the 2010 midterm elections showed, economic issues are something of a Trojan horse for the right"   - huh?***

Blow is famous for letting emotion get in the way of any sound logic or common sense.

Then again the whole Democrat party is having a hard time explaining the liberal agenda in a logical/rational way.


3792  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / First family travel on: April 26, 2012, 01:57:04 PM
What do others think?  I really don't want to get into how much a first lady spends.  On one hand she is representing the US overseas.   I don't want or expect she travel coach.   I want the first family safe.   OTOH is she travelling the world sightseeing?  Hillary did the exact same thing.  I am not sure about other first ladies.   Certainly the Obamas will be financially secure enough to travel wherever they want after the Presidency is over.   

http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/26/group-michelle-obamas-spain-trip-cost-taxpayers-467k/
3793  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Cognitive Dissonance of His Glibness on: April 25, 2012, 04:54:23 PM
Doug,

Cuomo is below the national radar screen now.  I don't keep up with NJ much les NY politics but everything I have read or heard about him is he is doing a good job in NY.   Even talk show host Bob Grant who hated Mario said this not too long ago.

The fact he is his father's (flaming liberal) son, and the fact he is a Democrat makes it hard for me to be objective but
this is what I am hearing.
3794  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Tax Policy on: April 25, 2012, 04:51:22 PM
Doug don't you like this guy Lovitz because he comes across as saying the truth?  He went into showbiz to become rich and famous.

Not like the other phoney celebs who pretend it was all about their craft and art.  They vote Dem for show.  For naricissm.  For BS reasons.   They appear to have to prove something.   Perhaps this makes them feel good about themselves.   Do they despise themselves that much?

I became a doctor for different reasons.  I didn't expect to get rich.  I did like the idea of helping people.  But if I said I didn't EXPECT to make a good living I would be lying.   What, was I supposed to work hard to achieve this because I am a darn saint?

3795  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Government programs & regulations, spending, deficit, and budget process on: April 25, 2012, 04:46:28 PM
"What we call Social Security has two different meanings. What the voters were sold or think of it as is a long term contract with the government where we pay in as we work and take payments back when we retire.  They hold it in that lockbox for safekeeping and compounding on our behalf.  Of course none of that is true"

Yes.   Correct me if I am wrong.   We recently heard SS is solvent till 2035 at which point it will run out of money!

And we should be glad because *that* estimated date is the same as the estimate last year.  Yet I haven't heard any MSM discussing how such a calculation HAS to be absurd.  Like Doug points out there is no money sitting anywhere for safekeeping.

It is all a moving target.  All based on assumptions about what is coming in keeping some sort of pace with what is going to be paid out.

As JDN points out only the government (and apparantly not every government - Europe which is tied to the Euro cannot print money) can make money out of thin air and claim it has value

Bottom line I don't beleive the year 2035 has much meaning.  It is all smoke and mirriors.  Where is the outrage in MSM?   It will emerge only if Romney wins.   
3796  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: US Economics, the stock market , and other investment/savings strategies on: April 24, 2012, 02:14:27 PM
GM,
Do you mean personal investing or for the future of the US?

I guess one could invest in something like this for their descendants.

Of course I might live to 200 years old. grin
3797  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Furthermore on: April 24, 2012, 02:11:50 PM
""It is no longer the case, in other words, that every Islamist is seen as a potential accessory to terrorists."

NO ONE ever said every single follower of Islam is a terrorist or potential terrorist.  Did not these idiots hear Bush W say LOUD AND CLEAR that we are not at war with Islam?

The problem is many still do wish us all dead.  Try figuring out which ones do and which ones don't.
3798  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Celeb angry at Brock over taxes on: April 24, 2012, 01:31:39 PM
Angry celeb over Obama and taxes.  The only thing I would add is that the whole Democratic party should be blamed for their personal power tax.   The whole modus is to rob people with money to buy votes.  Every tax I pay I think I am paying the Democrat mafia extortionists:

http://news.yahoo.com/snl-alum-obama-f-king-asshole-audio-140806261.html
3799  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The US Congress; Congressional races on: April 24, 2012, 12:37:03 PM
JDN,

Didn't you say you would have voted for McCain if not for Palin?
So you want a socialist one world government with regulation of everything?

You want a President who is as John Bolton points out is quite confortable with the retreat and minimalization, marginalization of the US?

3800  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Hillbillary Clintons long, sordid, and often criminal history on: April 24, 2012, 12:13:22 PM
She may have whipped him a few times...... wink
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