I enjoyed the flick as well, though I've listened to enough BJJ people ditching the movie due to ... whatever.  Overall, the fights were artistic and intense.  Another belt movie that I enjoyed is "Black Belt" about Japanese karate.  It is in Japanese with English subtitles.  The unarmed vs. katana fights were shockingly surprising. 

As for the Mamet interview, I can't believe he didn't see fight club.  Even if he didn't, the others in the movie did.  Why avoid seeing a masculine cult classic?  In any case, I'm glad to read that Mamet spent time training in martial arts so that he could write as an insider.   

While I can't verify whether these demonstrations are indeed fake, I have a few observations.  Demonstrator #1 (young fellow with jar head) tenses his neck before the blow.  The severity of the punch is not known.  You can take a bad punch in the throat and hurt later.  This Also, it is possible that this fellow has natural attributes (height, recessed larynx, strong front neck muscles) that allow him to take such demonstrations.   It is rarer that he can take shots to the throat and groin.  Too many people think that martial arts is 100% development rather than a selection of the able. 

The punch to the belly/solar plexus is unimpressive to a trained martial artist. 

Taken ata face value, the groin shots are remarkable.  I'd like to know more about the groin shots. There are many sleight-of-hand tricks performed by the obvious performer and the less-obvious trained member of the audience. 

dean, which one is that? 

I always wanted to learn the "8 hands of Lohan" as performed by Prof. Pearce.  I know that's a generic title, but his rendition at the 2000 Gathering of the Eagles Kenpo conference made a lasting impression.

A friend of mine described a short (5-10 minute) show on the Dog Brothers including interviews with Corey Davis.  Did anyone see this on ESPN during the Dec24-Jan02 stretch?  I'm searching on the ESPN site, but I can't go back in time.

I like that blast drill.  Yeah, I kinda wish Discovery Channel would have aired even more training, but the Kaju episode was great just as it was.

Saw this in the Inayan forum :

http://www.eskrimadorsdocu.com/

Thanks, Tom.  Yeah, G4 took the humorous route with my group.  Notably absent were the knife fights, the harder stick fights and the  kickboxing and groundfighting.  One fight ended in a standing rear naked choke.  Although G4 was ok with showing blood, stick welts and other injuries, they were particular about showing weapons fighting.  Given their audience, I can't say I blame them.  It would suck if kids imitated the weapons fights without masks, and I'm glad they included a quote about using the masks and what could happen if you don't. 

I updated the show times and added channel info.

G4 is not in most Basic packages, though you can order it for a week for $10/month divided by four if you like.  G4 typically offers programs in a streaming format from their website.

If you're up for a good laugh, here is another show on Fight Clubs including my group as well as a motorcycle gang "East Bay Rats" from Oakland.
-- Gints aka Baltic Dog

G4 Investigates: Fight Clubs
Saturday December 13th 10pm (EST/PST)  NOTE:  there is some confusion on the time.  My on-screen cable guide lists 7 pm but the previews on the G4 channel say 10 pm.

Preview: http://www.g4tv.com/techfightclubs/
Press : http://www.g4tv.com/g4/press/238/G4_INVESTIGATES_TECH_FIGHT_CLUBS.html

Sat 10pm December 13 (EST/PST)
Sun 5pm December 14
Mon 5pm December 15
Tue 3am December 16
Wed 2pm December 17
And so on ...

136 on G4/Comcast cable (at least in SF Bay Area)
354 on DirecTV
191 on DISH Network

Anything that doesn't hurt will flex too much or have padding that will be too thick to cut through the air.  I've tried every sort of practice stick, and the best I found was a Sonny Umpad design with a nylon sign 1/4" post at the core, covered by thin foam and some sort of electrical heat shrink tubing.  They were good for a while, although quite whippy and unsuitable for blocks.  There have been many types of sticks, but you really want a thinner rattan 5/8" x 25-28" is good.  If the stick is longer, it is whippy.  Then, wrap the stick with pipe insulation foam from Home Depot.  The tube will need a skin, and again, I bought a bunch of nylon sleeves from Nick at bloodsport.com along with the 5/8" sticks.  The 4 oz. MMA gloves (make sure yours doesn't have that stupid bar in the palm) are unobstrusive for sparring and stickwork, though they do nothing to protect the thumb, which is most often damaged when strikes the thumbnail from the tip side.  Over time, I have found that the sticks last about twice as long as the foam.  More often, the nylon case breaks at the tip or the foam at the tip slides down to expose the stick, so check the tips of the sticks before each round.

In the interest of eye protection, I'd invest in some fencing or WEKAF masks.   Eye damage is only a matter of time.  Fencing masks are probably better as they protect more of your head and have no major gaps as can be found in the WEKAF gear.  WEKAF helmets are better for breathing and need less light, though that solid grill is harder on sticks and the ears.  And if none of your players have been hit in the eye during years of practice, the sparring is, uh, well, "too controlled."  I truly believe that you need to hit the head, face and legs and swing harder to practice eskrima effectively.

Good idea, and this is a DVD I would buy.  I've lost interest in the "this technique seems useful and works very well in dojo drills when the master demonstrates on his disciples" videos that are so common in the industry.  I really liked the preparation and fight demonstration concepts in the first DBMA series.  Most tutorial DVDs are about an instructor's favorite techniques and systemization.  There is a great deal of athleticism involved in fighting, and I'd like to see how others prepare including the timing before an event.

Interesting survey.  I'm surprised that the elbow wasn't included as a breaking target.  I broke my first bone (knuckle) on an elbow during an early fist fight in the seventh grade.  A lot of martial arts spar with no hand protection, and I think a major source of hand and foot injuries is the tip of your opponent's elbow.

Very nice.  I like the variety of the footage, especially the hillside fight and the fights with the backlighted dust in the corral.  This variety shows the breadth and longetivity of the Gathering experience.

I just left a pair of reviews.  Thank you, Marc, for bringing these to the martial arts community.

After years of having to answer the question "Why do I do this?" , I do say it is to prove my manhood, to myself and others.  An assumption of manhood is that you can defend yourself and your loved ones, so you're out there to prove to this yourself.  While a small % of women are able to do this, almost all of full contact fighting, firearms, weightlifting and other physical domination training is the domain of the male.  Why?  Because men are expected to assume the protective, even on the very first date ! 

Given that crime is at a historical low in the USA and the chances of you ever needing these skills is nearly zero, why else do you think you do this?

The shock knife accounts read well.  What kind of crazies do this?   Or, rather, why do some men still refuse to be wimps?

The sociologist was kinda tame.  Wouldn't a rabid feminist do better?  Sure, the Gathering shares some similarity to the wilderness wild" expeditions in the 60' to 70's I've only read about.  The big difference is that the Gathering is Man vs. Man , not Man vs. The Elements.

Overall, it's great press. The article appears to have traveled around the world.  Just Google for:  US Fight Club

That would be Peter Andrada.  I believe that he fought in a red shirt with a white flower pattern.

The show is National Geographic Taboo : Proving Grounds from 2007.  It reairs periodically, but it appears that the new 2008 season also includes a different show with the same Proving Grounds title.

Yes, Bolveys is a Latvianization of Bulvais.  The Beowulf epic poem is based on folklore of that region.  My parents are from Latvia (Baltic states in North Eastern Europe), and a similar legend exists in that area.

Thor is an excellent choice for a son's name.  More newborns should be named that way.  It's much more individualistic than being in a classroom of Aidens and Ashtons.

Thank you for posting the pix.   This bunch looks especially fierce.  There is a guy in there that almost looks like Corey Davis. 

Actually, I'm not sure if it was Rog's first stick fight, but it was definitely his first Gathering.  Rog is a rare example of courage.  He knew Tom Kier because Guro Kier ran some of the Sayoc Kali training sessions at the DB Training Camp in the summer of 2002.  And Tom was a tough instructor.

Little Bolveys is doing well. He's pushing a 5 gallon water bottle as a walking aid.  I'm in decent fight shape, so I hope to be back at the next Gathering.  Miss you guys.  On Sunday, I had the strong feeling that I should be in LA fighting instead of porking up on Dim Sum in San Francisco at my family reunion.

For matching height/weight, just look to Roger Tinkoff (C-Space Dog).  He challenged and fought Tom Kier for a single stick fight at his first Gathering.   A 2x weight and strength difference is a true Gathering experience.  Granted, that's tougher to find for the larger guys.

Although Freudian concepts persist, sometimes a tunnel is just a tunnel.  And more so in American society, masculinity is not the opposite of femininity.  Rather, femininity is the ultimate constraint of masculinity (beastiality), both morally and physically.

A lot of blades are manufactured for "intimidation by feature."  A notable example is the gun-knife combination pieces which are neither good at being a gun or a knife.   Armies would outfit their soldiers with kerambits if they had a decided advantage over a straight blade or in anything.

Hi Ryan,

All of the reruns of this ESPN E:60 show have been broadcast, so open up the YouTube if you still have it there.
Here come the rotten eggs !

Thanks !

Gints

Thank you for your posting, Ryan.  For a month or so, would you mind hiding your link on YouTube?  It would be better to go directly to the E60 site.  If ESPN can measure a lot of web action, then they'll do more pieces in this fighting genre.

Here is the link from the E:60 site.  If you get a chance, login and make a favorable or unfavorable comment but try to give it a good star rating to keep the fight genre going.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3361421

As it turns out, very little stick fighting made it into this piece.

Here is the link from the E:60 site.  If you get a chance, login and make a favorable or unfavorable comment but try to give it a good star rating to keep the genre going.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3361421

Updated with DirecTV information.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3361421


Check out stick and other weapons fighting by a San Francisco Bay Area group.
If you fought at this club from 2003-present, you may be on this program.
I'm in this one.  There are three stories in this hour-long show.

-----------------------------------------------
Show is named "E:60" on at different times on both ESPN channels
ESPN  :  Tue 04/22 4pm PST (7pm EST)

On the OTHER ESPN channel :
ESPN2 : Tue 04/22 8pm PST (11pm EST)
            Mon 04/28 8pm PST (11pm EST)
            Tue 04/29 2am PST  (5am EST)

Channel info:
ESPN   :
            Comcast Cable (SF Bay Area):  38  (HD on   724)
            DISH Satellite                    : 140  (HD on 9424)
            DirecTV                            : 206   (HD on    73)
 
ESPN2 : Comcast Cable (SF Bay Area):  38  (HD on   725)
            DISH Satellite                    : 144  (HD on 9425)
            DirecTV                           : 209  (HD on    72)

On-line schedules:
Comcast                  http://tvplanner.comcast.net/
DirecTV                   http://directv.com/DTVAPP/epg/theGuide.jsp
DISH Satellite           http://affiliate.zap2it.com/tvlistings/

It's an honor to be in a rerun!

The Dog Brothers documentary "Fight Club: No Limits" will rerun again on Sunday April 20 at 4pm PST (7pm EST) .

National Geographic Channel
For SF Bay Area:  Comcast Cable channel  273 (for High Def 757)
For DISH Network: 186  (for High Def 9429)
(The DISH schedule shows 3:30pm .  Odd)

Congratulations to the tribe !  I'm sorry to have missed fighting with you all at this event.  Well, I'm looking forward to the story on the DVD.   Many thanks to Marc for creating this event and keeping it going for all of these years.

-- Gints (Baltic Dog)

I think that the words of the academics are important.  They stimulate controversy by presenting another opinion.  Yes, they are guilty of syllable inflation, but otherwise, I enjoyed hearing their remarks.  They offer the perspective of the ivory towers that shape the academic minds of tomorrow, like it or not.  Should we expect them to completely understand our motivations?  Did any of us understand the Gathering before we fought?  I didn't.

Great to see the show out there.  You can tell that the YouTube post was accomplished with a camera pointing at a TV:  1) not perfectly  horizontal 2) blueish tinge (camera not white balanced to bluer TVs)

The show was on the phenomenon of the Gathering.  The documentary was awesome, but, in complete agreement of Marc's description of the editing stage, I do wish they included longer fight clips. A "behind the scenes" segment would also be cool to watch.   

Hey guys,

Thanks for posting the comments.  The controversy is excellent publicity for Marc, so let's help him out.  99.9% of the comments posted on the public boards will be derisive, mostly because those willing to post do so for the pleasure of the taunt.  I think it would be a great idea for anyone that has fought at a Gathering to refrain from countering these taunts.  First and foremost, more controversy = more publicity for Marc.  When the comments are generated by outsiders,  media producers take note.   Second, it's both fascinating and leveling to read what the general public thinks of the Gathering.  In the end, fighting martialists know the truth.  The rest will never understand.  As Marc says, they should just watch.

Gints

I get a lot of "ripped" shows (mostly from Satellite boxes using PVRExplorer) using a combination of binsearch.info and Newsleecher software.  Couldn't be easier.   The problem is that most of the premium content is encrypted, so most HD shows and Nat Geo aren't made available. 

I was the DB documentary on one of the bit torrent sites, but I wasn't able to access the torrent even after registering.  Hmmm.  Prof G, what's your source ?

If you don't get the National Geographic channel, consider upgrading your package for one month.  Then, the cost of seeing the show is something like $5-10.  Some providers can make the switch in minutes (DISH satellite).  Comcast seems to need a few days.

Interesting read.  I agree.  Men that don't adhere to that list won't have marital problems.

I hope there are a few more negative "too much brutality" comments.  As I like to say, if my Aunt approves, it's not brutal enough.

Hello.  I'm Gints, bestowed with the honor of being a member in the tribe with the name: Baltic Dog, credit to my Latvian heritage. 

My first Gathering was July 2002.  Rog, Milt and I had been training in Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo with Prof. Richard Lewis for years and fighting with magazine clubs, aluminum knives and soft training sticks in a small garage club.  I had done Eskrima training in 1995 with Guro Vince Uttley, then trained more seriously with the Inayan Family in 1999-2000.  Sometime in 2001, the Dog Brother instruction video tapes entered our lives.  One tape started with a breath-stopping footwork drill by 6'4"+ Top Dog in white sneakers.  In an earlier era, he would have been clearing battlefields as Achilles.  Another tape included some Gathering footage.  We watched the tapes, and cringed thinking everyone would die. They were hitting and dropping each other with wooden sticks.  After a few replays, we noticed the young first-timer in the baggy pants hadn't dead. Nobody died.  We can do this, too.  I bought the baggy pants.

For two months before the event, Rog, Milt and I trained in a secluded area in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco  with rattan sticks, helmets, body padding and a video camera.  We thought the police would drag us away.  No one noticed us in the land of Flower Power. Even with the body
pads, the sticks hurt. Everything hurt.  We all made the trip down to Marc's Dog Brother training camp.  In the first session, one fellow took a stick shot in the mouth and lost a tooth.  Every one in the camp looked fierce.  On the last day of the camp, most of these tough guys said they
weren't fighting in the Gathering.  Too dangerous.  Perhaps, we can't do this. We should just watch.

The day before the Gathering, Top Dog invited us to a Kajukenbo dojo in Long Beach to practice spar.  We rationalized that even if we were maimed then, it would be the same as a Gathering.  Target practice with the new guys. A few minutes after we arrived, Salty Dog took a shot on his hand from Top Dog and spurted  blood all over the mat.  His reaction was non-existant.  "Oh my, I hurt my hand, again."   We froze.  Top Dog and Lonely Dog played with us a bit, though at the time, we thought we were in a death match.  They let us walk away.  We drove back to the El Segundo hotel as giddy as school girls.  That is how I spent my 32nd birthday.  Do you remember yours?

The Gathering starts with knife fights to shake out the butterflies.  Then out come the big sticks.  We fought.  We bled.  We shook hands.  That is the way of the Dog.

Eternal thanks to you, Marc.  May the world see your Tao of the Dog on this show.

Update on times. 

Wednesday January 23    6 pm and   9 pm PT (9 pm and 12 am ET)
Saturday     January 26    7 pm  and 10 pm PT (10 pm and 1 am ET)
Monday      January 28   10 am PT    (1 pm ET)
Wednesday January 30    2 pm PT    (5 pm ET)

Call me stupid, but I watched all three (don't bother with #3) and never really saw any fighting.  I remember rewinding and watching the fight sequences.  They are rapid film cuts and sound effects coupled with some victim movement.  Yes, the sound and scenes are gripping.  To me, it looks as if editing technology made up for Bourne's disinterest in training in martial arts.  Lucy Liu does a much better job.

That's the Eastern Time (ET in the link above)
Here's the Pacific Time (PT in the link below)
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com:80/channel/PT/popup/200801232100.html

Wow, they are just showing this every night , unless I'm viewing this while they're tweaking the schedule.
I'll fill this in tomorrow as some of the time slots don't have titles even though they're referenced by
earlier schedule slots.

Wednesday January 23    6 pm and   9 pm PT (9 pm and 12 am ET)
Saturday     January 26    7 pm  and 10 pm PT (10 pm and 1 am ET)
Monday      January 28   10 am PT    (1 pm ET)
Wednesday January 30    2 pm PT    (5 pm ET)

Great !  I'll spread the word by posting to other martial fora and maintaining those posts with any updates.  I haven't seen any trailers posted, so let us know if one exists.

Also, Fight Club is a fine name even though the producers didn't show respect for your efforts.  Having been through that process myself ("Geek Fight Club" comes to mind), I think Nat Geo made the right choice in your case.  Stick Fight Club might have been better.  Just imagine scanning through the channel guide on your TV or programming your show selector to search for key words.  Fight fans would be looking for the word Fight.  With the current title, they will find your show and hear your message.

As for association with the "Fight Club" movie, I think that is great.  A poll of Gathering fighters would probably reveal a 100% acceptance of the movie.  A negative perception would be that life is imitating art instead of art imitating life.  The Gathering existed *before* the movie though it would be inaccurate to assume that Gathering attendance has not been influenced by fans of the movie.  I started my own garage club in the late 90's, but it is obvious that immediately after the debut of the FC movie in 1999, those without martial arts training thought they could fight as well.  The same applies to my group for fighting with rattan sticks after watching one of the Gathering tapes made available in the first DB series.  Before then, we used softer weapons and aluminum knives as an extension of FMA training.  The tapes taught us that everyone didn't die from one stick strike.  What a life changer.

I posted the announcement to the Kajukenbo cafe, Inayan Eskrima, Damag Kali Yahoo group, Stick & Knife forum.  Spread the word to your friends and family.

Thanks, Corey.  Got it !

Gints

I'll do the manual searching labor for the schedule.

Look for standard definition and high definition.
In the San Francisco Bay Area: Comcast 273  and for HD, 757

This link is for Eastern Time (ET in the link)
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/ET/daily/20080123.html

This link is for Pacific Time (PT in the link)
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/PT/daily/20080123.html

Wednesday January 23   6pm PST (3pm EST)
Saturday     January 26   7pm  and 10pm PST (4pm and 7pm EST)
Monday      January 28   10am PST (7am EST)
Wednesday January 30 (schedule currently doesn't show the time)

We're a rerun !  See Baltic Dog, C-Space Dog and C-Devil Dog and others fighting in a garage.

PREVIEW HERE :  http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid192889067/bctid1178857279
If that doesn't work, try here and BE SURE CLICK ON THE "FIGHT CLUB" episode
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/video/index.html?searchquery=PROGRAM-Taboo

National Geographic Channel : "Taboo: Proving Ground "
California Comcast Cable : channel 273  (High definition on 757)
Wednesday, January 9, 2008
3PM Pacific Time    http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/PT/daily/20080109.html
6PM Eastern Time  http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/ET/daily/20080109.html

In some cultures men prove their manhood by enduring pain. Get a pass into an American Fight Club, where some successful, educated males engage in physical combat to test their manhood, using anything to attack - wooden knives, soda cans, sticks, even soap-on-a-rope. On the remote Indonesian island of Sumba, hundreds of men take part in a time-honored event known as the Pasola. Facing off in two teams on horseback, they charge toward each other hurling spears.

And this happens in the Gathering fights,often after the first few seconds.  The issue is that there are tons of venues for weaponless fighting, so why drag down the premier weapons fighting event ?

Thanks for posting these, Maija.  It's enjoyable to see younger versions of M. Umpad and Ken, especially since he hemmed his killer dreadlocks.  I'm looking forward to seeing you and a younger Victor Damian.

Very cool.  Tons of thanks to Marc for running the Gatherings all of these years.  Any word on an air date/time ?

Thanks,

Baltic-Dog