A friend of mine was an early Jimmy Tacosa student.  He told me that
he would harden his sticks with a thin coat of superglue.  That seems kinda of expensive to me, but some of those paint on bandage products
should fit the bill.   For $1-2 per stick, you may be able to harden them. You'll have hardened sticks that are also disinfected !  I've never tried
this, but I bet if you paint the areas that fray the most, the stick will last longer.

>iv had my former teacher look at a pic in a magizine and right away say >thats fake, his arm would be broken

Most magazine pictures are posed pictures because magazines sell on visual appeal and need a high quality photo to demonstrate a concept.
I don't know which photo you were referring to, but any photo is a moment in time.  

As for real injuries, there are athletic weapons practitioners that fight
at the Gatherings.   I'll keep this short.  Most people think they can do more damage than they can actually deliver.  Drawing on more common experiences, there are tons of guys that can twirl sticks beautifully, hit heavy bags monstrously yet are unable to deliver a knockout blow in one or more rounds of fighting.  Why?  Because it's difficult to land a great shot on an opponent that is trying to do the same to you while effectively defending himself.  One is a greater warrior in fantasy.

I can post several video clips of what happens when someone receives an elbow shot with a rattan stick.  Usually, nothing. Sometimes, it's numbing.  Rarely, a bone chips.  I have original video footage of all of these cases.  Though, it is considerable work to edit video footage.  Someday ...

As Marc Denny has written many times, the Gathering is a test of your abilities.  There are a lot of talkers and few fighters.  If you believe that you are that effective, show up at a Gathering and fight.  At the Summer 2002 Gathering, I saw Master Max Pallen fight at age 61.   What's your excuse ?

I've had some brief exposure to the Dr. Gyi Letha Yoga techniques thought a Dog Brother training camp.    Restorative techniques aren't just for older guys, as they simply speed up recovery time.  While I enjoyed the material, such a regimen involves a regular ritual for results.   The solo stuff is more appealing as it's difficult to find a regular partner to do the partner activities, although it really is better when someone else helps out.  

An alternative method for increasing circulation is light aerobic exercise.  Thermally-induced vasodilation and vasocontriction  can be as easy as  alternating hot and cold water in the shower, ending on cold.   Apparently, this quick shower method is gaining popularity among pro athletes, although massage, ice and hot water treatments have been popular all along.

Although many cultures have a history with hot/cold water treatment,  the Scandinavian and Baltic people have been my exposure.  The coldest lake and hottest sauna I've ever experienced were in Finland. The Baltic (Latvians, Lithuanians) augment the hot/cold cycles with a birch (fine twigs) branch whipping.    And when I was young, I always thought the Latvian grandmothers kept that birch broom around to punish kids stealing candy ! Little did I know !

I've been doing this for only a couple of months, but wow, you feel fantastic afterwards.  I can't comment on the
boost to recovery from a workout thought.  As a bonus, you'll cut your gas bill for your hot water usage.  Plus, you may relive all of those summer camp memories of running out of hot water in the shower.


Gints Klimanis

Thanks for posting the new movies, in particular the "Tatang" video.  Such footage is the only direct record we have of the masters and the movements they intended to pass on.

I have a Filipino friend (trained in FMA) that was assaulted by a bum-looking guy with a fishing filet knife in the east side of the San Francisco Bay last year. He disarmed the sluggish intruder.  This was more of an assault than a knife fight. I've asked him if it's ok to post the details of his story, at least how he told me the story.

Cool.  Actually, I didn't snap a single photo.  The photographer was
"Muhammed" Ally Yang.  

If anyone is interested in a particular photo in high resolution, I'll email it to you.

All corrections made, Milt.  Thanks for the quick response.

Hi,  

The Gathering 2004 was an awesome event.  Love the industrial feel at the RAW gym.

I noticed that bloody photo of Kris Donnage on the Home page of the DB web site.  It was a "cool" injury, and Kris took it well.    If I was not mistaken
in my observations, the injury was a scalp scrape from a stick technique
during the groundfighting portion of the fight when the helmets of both  fighters had been removed.     I hope the photo is there for only a few
days and is then moved to a "Wounds" gallery.  Although I enjoy
watching and doing this sort of fighting, I think such a photo on the Home page is counterproductive in promoting the event.  

Gints Klimanis

BTW, does anyone have an email address for Kris ?  My lovely
photographic assistant Ally snapped a photo of this in what may be
interpreted as a religious context:   Arm of God (Marc Denny, head obscured) with his arm on Kris's shoulder.  Over Marc's shoulder
peers the eyes of a Satan-like creature.  The photo is unposed.
I'm not particularly religious, but the photo strikes me as such.

Here's a small version of the photo, which also isn't appropriate for
a main page photo :

http://home.att.net/~gints/Download4.htm

I don't think anyone dared to mess up your *wife's* chair.

Thanks for the photos.  It was a pleasure and honor to watch the Gathering.  How should I add my set of photos ?

Gints

Here are some suggestions for multiple man knife fights that I've
tested in my GFC sparring nights.  The additional distractions
give the knife fight a purpose other than a simple duel.

1) Four players on two teams.  Only one player on each
team has a knife.  Short knives work better here.  The
armed man assumes the job of protecting his unarmed buddy.

2) Three players: two unarmed vs. one armed.
A long knife works better here.

3) Serial attacker:  one knifer gets a new opponent
every ten seconds.

4) Armed+unarmed  vs.   2 armed/unarmed
In this case, you are defending yourself and an unengaging
buddy.  I haven't actually tried this combo yet.

5) Fighting around an obstacle, any type of fight.
Any knife combination.   In the past, I've dragged the
150 lb Green man dummy heavy bag into the middle of the
floor.

6) Home intruder:  single or team fighting to gain ground
I tried this in a one car garage with the home access being
a single door.   Defender(s) prevent the offender(s) from
gaining ground.   At the Gathering, add cones or heavy bags to
mark the path.

I'll write up some more when I get a chance,

Gints Klimanis

>If someone does something completely unrealistic like grabbing a knife >by the blade, the fight should be stopped immediately.

This isn't all that unrealistic.  One can safely grip the flat of the blade from the unsharpend side of a single edged blade.   You can also grab a knife
around the sharp edge of the blade, with the risk of a cut depending on
the quality of your clench (no slide, no cut), the quality of your hand protection and the quality of the knife edge (sharp, angle).  Every now and then, you meet a man with a hand grip like a vise.   They can pull these moves off more effectively.

Gints

I've tried a couple of marker fights in the past .  
The main problem with markers is that
they don't reward slashes very well due to the small tip.
In short, markers simulate a very short blade quite well,
but the mess inhibits regular practice.
Also, the marker tip mashes quickly.   Marker/lipstick is
fine for recording some shots, but if the bout isn't stopped
after a couple of
slashes, many marks provide little information about
the timing and quality of the cuts.  "Whoah, dude,
you cut me 23 times vs. my 19.  You win."  A modern
training tool is a video camera, although it is difficult to tape
knife fights well because the action often too quick for video frame
rates, and you only have one viewing angle.

Why is there so much concern over making shots obvious?
I think Crafty & crew have done a fine job so far.
The fighters can feel the shots with some practice, once
they've learned to calm down.  
The duel would be totally different with real knives, let
along the remote possibility that an equal weapon duel
would take place.   Just hand each opponent a fencing
mask and a pair of light garden gloves so you can feel
cuts to the hands.   I would suggest having both
contestants handle a real blade immediately before
their first knife bout and debrief them individually afterwards.

Some newbies are unaccustomed to fighting with a
simulated blade.  So what?  It's great practice to learn
on a new opponent.   These guys are just circling
around trying to slash or "hook stab" or "jump thrust"
you in the face with pure
speed and reflexes, no variety or strategy.
Can you deal with them? As for "double kills", you just make
sure that *you* avoid them.  Sure, the "accomplished"
knife sparrer may receive more hits than they would
like.  I think that's better than watching two guys
circle around the whole round "looking for an opening"
because they are unable to make an opening.

I like the aluminum blades with
light "garden" gloves, primarily to protect from knuckle grating on
the opponents mask.   I think this could actually be reduced
to taping 2-3 finger joints.  Particular and
well-maintained blades should be used.   Once, I was
"stabbed"  by an well-targeted but unmaintained aluminum
blade in the torso.   I neglected to care for the skin break,
which broke into an itchy infection.  So, at my GFC sparring
activity, we use blades covered with the clear car door
protectors available from Kragen auto supplies.  This
suggestion was made by Bob Burgee at Edges2.  It's
harder to cover the shorter blades, so choose
models with rounder edges and sand off the burrs
before bouts. I use a Black&Decker Mouse electric sander.

Without hand padding, I will caution that one can
break hand bones, as I broke my thumb (distal phalanx)
cleanly during a Jacket vs. Edges2 Fighter
fight.  Although I have the bout on video, I am unable
to tell if my thumb broke from my opponent's knife
butt to my fist or from my finger poke to his helmet.
I though I broke/bent my nail during the fight.  After
the swelling subsided in three weeks, I finally had
the thumb x-rayed because it seemed a little crunchy.
Up until the doctor's visit, I really didn't think much
of not being able to close shirt buttons.


Happy slashing,

Gints Klimanis

Watch out for the pranksters slipping in an extra staff !

http://www.stupidvideos.com/
Click on the Search tab on the left side
Search for "pole fighting"  or
just scroll down to the "pole fighting" entry

After much shopping around, I bought an all-metal Spyderco Harpie in 1998 or so. The blade length is 2 3/4" and it easily fits in the billfold of my wallet,
thus enabling me to carry it anywhere.  I've practied taking out
the knife quickly and mostly have it down.  This blade is not a "fighting"
knife, but its serrated edges look nasty.  The natural steel color and
nasty-looking blade are excellent posturing attributes.

Marc,

What audio sync problems are you encountering ?  On authoring or capture ?  I've powered through a lot of audio sync problems in my
DVD authoring, so perhaps I can help.

Gints

I haven't checked out "Choke", but it looked more like a collection of
fights.  Were there any good "behind the scenes" DVD extras?

Check out the new release of Mark Kerr's "Smashing Machine" documentary on DVD.  Mark Kerr was a UFC, Pride, etc. fighter.  This is a *fine* behind the scenes, easy going documentary of Mark before and after fights, training (Bas Rutten) and other stuff.  The DVD extras are also a good view, especially the Gracie and "Cauliflower" ear mini movies.

Enjoy,

Gints

We're still on the "off season", but send me your email so you can check out weapons sparring in your area.  I'm in Menlo Park, not too far south from Daly City.

http://home.att.net/~gints/GFC.htm

gints@att.net

Sincerely,

Gints Klimanis

What part of Sun Tzu's work are you referencing ?

The Dog Brother tapes made a far greater impression on me than
the UFC, although I have to admit that seeing UFC 1 was awesome.
The DB Gathering seemed impossible during my first view, especially as a student of weapons martial arts.   After watching the DB tapes, I slowly realized that no one had died.  This, in turn, made me question my
own meager abilities in weapons arts.

As for "guest" posts, I think this is fine.  An improvement may be a reminder that a posting is performed as guest.  I'm a registered member of this site, but I've unintentionally posted as "guest" in the past.

Gints

Overall, this forum is great.

My likes are the content and lack of trash talking.  The Dog Brother experience (Gathering, videos) has really charged my life with adventure, and the organization is to thank for that.  Thank you !

I would prefer that there are fewer posts overall rather than read political discussion or reposted articles of current events that are remotely related to the charter of this group.  On Yahoo groups, there are sections for group members to post pictures and videos.  It would be cool to have a place to host video clips, if even for a few weeks.

This article, found by Ray Terry, is about news coverage on guns used in self-defense.  Some interesting events include the successful defenses by early teens.

Why People Fear Guns
By John R. Lott Jr.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,107274,00.html

>the difference, sting, is that with the dogbrothers everyone is friends in >the end. this is the beauty of the gathering. it is not for anyone's vanity.

Leeland,

If there is no vanity here, ask Crafty why he seems to misplace his shirt so often.  BIG Chuckle.

Intimidation Sting, intimidation --Crafty

"i can beat you and am willing to prove it at my own risk."
>are we back in elementary school? that is the most idiotic statement any grown man can say to another.

Leeland,

If you are the best, you can only know this by actually fighting others.  According to the articles posted by Eric "Top Dog" Knaus, Eric challenged many of the FMA schools.  

guest's quote at the top of this post is the essence of the Gathering, at least to me.  Others like to participate but only latch on to that sentiment rather than drive ot. Even more like to watch, and even more like to talk about it without ever having watched.  The Dog Brothers have sustained a unique event.

>martial arts is for self defense and personal evolution. not for infantile >challenge matches, that have no relevant benefits.
> if you've gone to any dogbrothers gathering you'll understand this

Gathering fighters challenge one another.  Many challenges are avoided or rejected.

Gints

A disharmonious perspective is that you may be better off being 100% on your dominant side than 50%/50% on both sides.

El Cid,

Are you talking about sparring with heavy wood with no protective equipment?  If so, have you ever seen anyone do this type of sparring without any restrictions on blows?

>The profighter may be locked into hierarchical patterns of thought and >action far more than he realizes. Was the recent tragic death of Alex >Gong an example of this?

Hi Marc,

I suppose you can answer your cautiously-worded question by asking another question:  have you ever heard of a non-pro fighter that has chased after an assailant, be it personal or automotive?  I know of a few
other than myself.

Easy there.  I read the articles on Alex Gong, but I certainly wasn't there.  Running after the car that hits your car is not a rare behavior.  I'm sure that you or I would have done the same thing.  Some can only judge his behavior as unwise *after* a tragic outcome.  Had Alex managed to secure a license# or insurance information and walked away, he would have received congratulations from his friends, and we would not be reading about him in the papers.  

To anyone that thinks Alex's behavior was unwise, I would like to ask you if his death will change the way you deal with car accidents.  Will you let your automotive assailant drive away?  I wouldn't.

Good article.  I always enjoy reading commentary on bare-knuckle boxing in print.  Most people laugh at the movie renditions of Brits boxing with palms up.  They are simply practicing a sport defined by strict rules that enable them to fight without gloves.  In no way does the sport demonstrate the most effective way to fight.  It's just a sport, just like today's boxing which attracts some of the top athletes in existence to fight in a highly constrained manner suitable for public viewing.  

As for "streetfighters", I'm a little surprised Lewis took the term to literally as I've always understood "street" as slang for activities outside a sanctioned environment, be they fighting or school.  

As for pro fighters, I'm not so sure he's talking about the usual lot of martial artists.  He specifically mentions his black belts as trained fighters.
I'm am quite sure he's not talking about the waddlers, slackers, talkers,
etc. that are most of the martial arts community.  

Regarding pro fighters, I think there is an issue with training.  Unless you practice your techniques under stress, how do you know if they work?
Will a trained boxer miraculously pull out kicking and groundfighting techniques needed to deal with a situation outside of the ring? A case in
point is Mike Tyson's recent exchage with Bob Sapp.  Tyson seemed willing to fight Sapp only under Queensbury rules.

I've encountered the horse defense both in verbal conversations and even in magazine articles.  It's interesting that modern TKD spends so
much time developing high kicks for kicking soldiers off horses.  Without
a springboard or a nearby building, such a feat seems improbable.

If any of you are interested in reading about the RECENT development of
high kicks in Hapkido, check out: Hapkido: Traditions, Philosophy, Technique by Marc Tedeschi .  The book contains numerous interviews with prominent Hapkido masters along with statements that they invented particular high/spinning kicks.  

Viking answer:  Lance the horse, wait for it to fall, decapitate the rider.

Marc,

Nice article and pictures.  It's kinda weird to see real people (you and Benjamin) in print.  Anyway, I'm looking forward to more articles.  I found the Budo International at Barnes & Nobles, just as Russ did.

Marc,

What's a common chain store that carries Budo International ?
Borders/Amazon ?  Barnes & Noble ?  They don't list the mag in their
on-line catalogs.  I'd really like to read the article.

 Thanks !

Gints

Hi Marc,

I emailed you the pix on Saturday.  If you didn't receive the 9MB attachment, please let me know.  The pix are grainy and dark, but there
is less motion blur.  Oh well.

Gints

Hi Ya'll,

I'd like to congratulate Marc Denny, the Dog Brothers and the rest of his crew for putting together another adventure.  The RAW gym lends a fantastic feel to the event.  We saw Linda do a chick vs. guy knife fight.
The knife and stick fights were fast and furious.  Top Dog closed the event
by fighting his son.  Most excellent !

Marc, thank you for adding some real adventure to our lives.

Gints
P.S.

I didn't fight, but my northern California friends Roger, Milt, Linda, and Eric did. I had a great time snapping pictures.  I'll post them soon.

I'm not sure of the source of the article. I may even grabbed it from this forum.

Man Stabbed with Swordfish in Fight

MADEIRA BEACH, Fla. (Reuters) -
A Florida fisherman was recovering on Friday after being stabbed with the
bill of a swordfish during a fight with another man, a sheriff's spokeswoman
said. Police arrested Frank Ashmus, 46, and Garth Spacek, 42, on Thursday
after the two fishermen allegedly started fighting near a dock in Madeira
Beach, a small city on Florida's Gulf Coast. Police said that after Spacek
hit Ashmus in the head with a beer bottle and left, Ashmus went to Spacek's
apartment and stabbed him in the abdomen with a sharp detached bill of a
swordfish. "We don't see this kind of thing very often," said Pinellas
County Sheriff spokeswoman Marianna Pasha. Both men were drunk, according to
police. Ashmus and Spacek were held without bond on charges of aggravated
battery. Spacek was in fair condition, Pasha said.

Marc,

Before any sparring sessions, we have everyone stand in a circle and pass a real knife around, then the Edges2 blade. Since we use the Edges2 Fighter, I pass around my SWEET Black Bear Classic, which is nearly identical in shape to the trainer. The same goes for the shorter
training blades. I pass around a Spyderco folder. I ask people to avoid touching the blade of the knife to avoid adding acid/sweat. I suppose you have to own something more than a stainless steel kitchen knife for a while to understand this. If they drop the blade on the cement floor, and it chips or breaks, they owe me another knife. Some of the guys have
a habit of tossing the knife after the bout.

As for cuts, it seems like newbies just like to hit an opponent's
fencing helmet, most often, simultaneously. I suppose that the ring
of the helmet is more rewarding than any other knife cuts. Then,
come the kicks and knife grappling. I'm sure you've seen EXACTLY the same behavior over all of your years of Gatherings. Other targets and strategies seem to require more effort and instruction.

Anyway, although I'm just a spectator this time, I'm eager to catch
the Gathering action on Sunday !

Gints

I guess I've been around in the martial arts long enough that I don't feel the need to explain what I do.  These days, it seems even worse due to
the conditioning by the cinema with choreographed martial arts scenes in major releases.  On the other side, there's Fight Club.  When it comes to
girlfriends, actually, I've learned that their interest is a qualifier in the
relationship.  If they're less than neutral to negative, they're out.
Most people don't think that this stickfighting was real.  I remember
hearing stories of this massive guy that wiped out everyone in a tournament in San Jose.  Now, in retrospect, I think they were talking
about Top Dog.  In the story, they didn't mention fighting with any
body armor.

I played one of my own fight footage while shopping for a TV at Good Guys.  I wanted to see if my stuff looks good on a big TV. Most people walked by with zero interest.  A few stopped and
watched for a bit.  The sales guy told me he heard about these
crazy guys in southern California on a top ten martial arts show.
(Yes, this is the one with you Dogs)  While watching rougly
the equivalent stickfighting, he commented that these crazy guys didn't
even wear helmets while stick fighting and blood was flying everywhere.  
He said that he though people died doing this and many ended up in the
hospital  When I told him that I participated at one of those events (July 2002) and that what he was seeing was training for such an event, he just shut up.  No more questions or comments.  Nada.  Zip. You can bet he augments the next telling with "Yeah, and one of those stick fighting guys was in here shopping for a TV."

>~Ony
>Finally, in terms of violence against women being socially acceptable, I >see this evidenced not only by the fact that 1 woman in Canada will be >raped every 17 minutes;

This is evidence of prevalence, not acceptability.  There are specific laws
that define such behavior to be a crime.  Likewise, pedestrians are run over by cars, but accident rates are not indicators of social acceptability.
If safety measures suddently reduce the accident rate, in your world, would such accidents become less socially acceptable.

As for the numbers, it would be more useful to relate Canadian rape rates to the population, which is about 30 Million according to the Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia.  
Otherwise, you're playing the phone company bill game for your local service costs: $240/year, $20/month, $0.66/day, $0.027 / minute.   Which sounds cheapest to you?