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151  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: 2012 Presidential on: July 13, 2012, 05:03:59 PM
Meanwhile, Obama repeated his call for Romney to release further tax records. He told a New Hampshire TV station, "What's important if you are running for president is that the American people know who you are and what you've done and that you're an open book." Good advice from the man who took three years to release his birth certificate, and who still refuses to produce his medical records, his college transcripts and papers, and his law school records. Indeed, Obama has been vague and dissembling about nearly every political and social affiliation he's ever had.

Come on Crafty; you've got to admit that tax returns are a LOT more important than college transcripts and school records. 

From the 'Non Compos Mentis' File

"[Mitt Romney's] father, George Romney, set the precedent that people running for president would file their tax returns, let everybody look at them. But Mitt Romney can't do that because he's basically paid no taxes in the prior 12 years." --Harry Reid

I think he's referring to the percentage.  Nothing illegal, but it is/will be a talking point if Mitts paid very low taxes versus the average middle class working stiff.  That's just politics.


152  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Tax Returns on: July 13, 2012, 09:51:38 AM
"Rep. Walter Jones (R-NC) flatly told CNN Thursday that Romney needed to make at least six years’ worth of returns public — and soon.

“I think he should release his financial records and I think if he does it in July it would be a lot better than in October,” Jones said. “Whenever you are asking for the vote of the American people that you need to fully disclose what your holdings are, if you have any.”

Former Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, who considered running against Romney in the Republican primaries and advises the conservative American Crossroads on its election strategy, said this week that he saw value in disclosure as well.

Barbour told CNN Tuesday that he would release the returns if he was in Romney’s shoes.
“I would. But should it be an issue in the campaign? I don’t think it amounts to diddly.”

Former RNC Chairman Michael Steele also called on Romney to release additional returns on MSNBC this week, reasoning that it would put Democratic attacks to rest. The Obama campaign highlighted Steele’s quote in a web video on Romney’s Cayman Islands and Bermuda assets.

If there’s nothing there, there’s no ‘there’ there, don’t create a there,’” Steele said."

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/07/growing-republican-chorus-pushes-romney-to-release-tax-returns.php
153  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / The high cost of police incompetence - UC Davis et al on: July 12, 2012, 09:53:54 AM
"The pepper ball hit the sophomore in the eye and caused permanent damage, eventually leading Nelson to lose a football scholarship and drop out of the university, the court said.

Writing for the court, Judge Stephen Reinhardt said police used excessive force. "A reasonable officer would have known that firing projectiles, including pepper balls, in the direction of individuals suspected of, at most, minor crimes, who posed no threat to the officers or others, and who engaged in only passive resistance, was unreasonable," he wrote.

Police officers generally cannot be held liable for damages in a civil lawsuit. They lose immunity if it can be shown that their actions violated a "clearly established" constitutional right.

The court said the police violated Nelson's 4th Amendment right to be free of unreasonable seizure, and that earlier court rulings should have alerted police that their actions were illegal."

I wonder how many millions of dollars, AGAIN, the taxpayers will need to pay out to cover gross police incompetence.  And often, usually, they don't even get fired.   huh

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-uc-davis-pepper-20120712,0,3671184.story
154  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Immigration issues on: July 12, 2012, 09:39:16 AM
The boat is marked Texas Highway Patrol.  Don't let the facts get you off message.

Whoops!   shocked  Sorry, although my comments and point don't change.

Arizona doesn't blame immigrants for their problems.  What a bunch of Bullshit to intentional confuse armed robbers with invited guests.  Hard to say what the crime problems would be without Eric Holder arming them.

Actually, AZ and often TX does seem to blame immigrants for their problems.  And I don't get your point about the intention to "confuse armed robbers with invited guests". 
The point is that illegal immigration, although up in AZ and TX, CA and other border states in the period quoted, are not in fact the cause of an increase in violent crimes yet they seem to get blamed for everything.
TX would be better off spending the 2 million dollars on it's abominable K-12 educational system (ranking at the bottom) or it's health care (again, TX ranks at the bottom).

155  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Immigration issues on: July 12, 2012, 08:50:15 AM
That's AZ it seems; spend over 2 million dollars on needless river boats and blame the immigrants for all their problems. 


Crime rates in Arizona at lowest point in decades. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), the violent crime rate in Arizona was lower in 2006, 2007, and 2008 -- the most recent year from which data are available -- than any year since 1983. The property crime rate in Arizona was lower in 2006, 2007, and 2008 than any year since 1968. In addition, in Arizona, the violent crime rate dropped from 577.9 per 100,000 population in 1998 to 447 per 100,000 population in 2008; the property crime rate dropped from 5,997 to 4,291 during the same period. During the same decade, Arizona's undocumented immigrant population grew rapidly. The Arizona Republic reported: "Between January 2000 and January 2008, Arizona's undocumented population grew 70 percent, according to the DHS [Department of Homeland Security] report. Nationally, it grew 37 percent."

Crime rates have dropped during past decade in other border states. The BJS data further show that violent crime rates and property crime rates in California, New Mexico, and Texas dropped from 1998 through 2008 -- the most recent year from which data are available:

In California, the violent crime rate dropped from 703.7 in 1998 to 503.8 in 2008; the property crime rate dropped from 3,639.1 to 2,940.3 during the same period.
In New Mexico, the violent crime rate dropped from 961.4 in 1998 to 649.9 in 2008; the property crime rate dropped from 5,757.7 to 3,909.2 over the same period.
In Texas, the violent crime rate dropped from 564.6 in 1998 to 507.9 in 2008; the property crime rate dropped from 4,547 to 3,985.6 over the same period.
Cato's Griswold: "t is a smear to blame low-skilled immigrant workers from Latin America for creating a crime problem in Arizona." In an April 27 post, Daniel Griswold, director of the Cato Institute's Center for Trade Policy Studies, wrote that "Arizona's harsh new law against illegal immigration is being justified in part as a measure to combat crime" and that "drug-related violence along the border is a real problem." But, Griswold continued, "it is a smear to blame low-skilled immigrant workers from Latin America for creating a crime problem in Arizona." From Griswold's post:
156  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Romney on: July 11, 2012, 08:18:28 PM
And if you think he disclosed or the media pushed him for disclosure on the plethora of wild, weird, and radical things and associates in his background , , ,

No one cared about the "wild" "weird" rumors and innuendo except a few zealots and right wing extreme bloggers.  In contrast, most of America in my opinion WILL care about disclosure of taxes. 

Or do you really think the subject of Romney's taxes will go away and that it's not relevant?   huh
157  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Romney on: July 11, 2012, 05:49:10 PM
We will see....  I predict if he doesn't, and soon, fully disclose, it will begin to haunt him. Voters will care....

It IS relevant.  Besides high school/college grades which aren't relevant, Obama unlike Romney, offered full disclosure.  No more documents were necessary.  In contrast, the average guy doesn't have "Swiss Bank Accounts" or accounts in the Cayman Islands.  Kinda hard to relate or even understand.

By the way, Obama did serve three terms in the Illinois State Legislature.  A "sixth of a term" in the U.S. Senate?  I thought he served nearly four years out of six or nearly 2/3rd's of his U.S. Senate term?

I'm not knocking Romney's record.  Heck, I like his record while he was governor.   evil

I can't wait for the debates to begin.
158  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Romney on: July 11, 2012, 04:08:46 PM
Mitt Romney’s father, George Romney, in 1967, ahead of his presidential campaign, who released 12 years of tax returns, saying, when explaining why so many years he released, "One year could be a fluke, perhaps done for show." That was Mitt’s father, George Romney.

I suppose he doesn't have to release these records, but the clamor for him to do so will be become louder and louder and LOUDER. 

"I don’t know of any American president who has had a Swiss bank account," end-quote. That’s originally a comment made by Romney’s former Republican presidential rival, Newt Gingrich. 

"In 1994, (Mitts) Romney vigorously called for then Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) to release his tax returns, in order to prove that he had “nothing to hide”

I'm not, nor is anyone else accusing him of doing anything illegal, but what is Romney hiding?

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/7/11/as_romney_evades_on_tax_returns

As for Obama, he released multiple years of his tax returns when he ran although he never made even close to the money Romney made.  What is your 2008 point?
159  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Romney Tax Returns on: July 11, 2012, 11:02:04 AM
I don't care about his high school or college grades, but I do care about his tax returns.  His father, George Romney offered 12 years of tax returns when he ran.  What's wrong with Mitts?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/10/mitt-romney-s-flat-footed-tax-dodge.html
160  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Intel Matters on: July 09, 2012, 10:21:37 PM
Scooter Libby went to prison for not leaking.  Now THAT was an investigation.  They had the truth in the first 15 minutes and decided to run a year or so with the investigation. The zeal for getting at the truth and enforcing federal laws sadly depends upon the political implications.

Actually Scooter Libby was a Criminal.

Libby was indicted on five counts: Two counts of perjury, two counts of making false statements to federal investigators, and one count of obstruction of justice.

In the subsequent federal trial, United States v. Libby, the jury convicted Libby on four of the five counts in the indictment (one count of obstruction of justice, two counts of perjury, and one count of making false statements.
161  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Iraq on: July 09, 2012, 01:31:02 PM
"Further, opposing the wars or our President's policies is neither "despicable or treasonous", but rather our patriotic duty if we disagree with policy; this freedom of speech is guaranteed by the Constitution. Odd, I note while Obama is our Commander in Chief, Republicans have no problem criticizing him."

JDN:

This is really, really tedious.  Please do not waste our time with such specious nonsense.  This is NOT what I said.  I clearly delineated loyal dissent and disloyal acts.  As examples of the latter, I specified Pravda on the Hudson and Pravda on the Beach revealing secret military programs. 

Tedious perhaps, I disagree, but here nor there, I was not referring to anything you said.  I was quoting from Objectivist1's, "Brilliant, Concise, Cogent"  huh   review of Horowitz and Johnson's book posted immediately prior to my response.
162  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Iraq on: July 07, 2012, 02:40:11 PM
"They demonstrate with unassailable factual narrative..."    huh huh huh
surely you joke?

"...fractured America's resolve, damaged our troops' morale, and weakened the President's ability to prosecute the war."   

Thank the Lord; otherwise even more Americans would have been killed for naught.  You seem to forget, it's the American People who overwhelmingly wanted this/these worthless and pointless war(s) to end.  Thousands upon thousands have needlessly died, our daily life profoundly changed for the worse, it has drained our economy, billions upon billions, probably trillions of dollars has been spent all for what?  As I, and I think most Americans agree, these prolonged wars in the Middle East have been a terrible terrible mistake.

Further, opposing the wars or our President's policies is neither "despicable or treasonous", but rather our patriotic duty if we disagree with policy; this freedom of speech is guaranteed by the Constitution.

Odd, I note while Obama is our Commander in Chief, Republicans have no problem criticizing him.   
163  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: We the Well-armed People (Gun rights stuff ) on: July 06, 2012, 02:28:04 PM
Dick Morris lately has not been checking his facts.

The treaty only pertains to international arms trade, and would have NO  effect on current domestic laws.  We would NOT lose our 2nd Amendment Rights.  Morris is all hyperbole. 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/untreaty.asp
164  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Iran on: July 06, 2012, 10:25:17 AM
The article didn't miss it; t think the article very definitely points out that "war with Iran would be very serious business."

In fact, as the article also points out, many former Israeli intelligence officers are warning America to avoid a military clash with Iran because it would be try serious business.

If we take any military action against their "nuke program" there will be repercussions.  As the article points out, it's not Islam, it's our meddling in the middle east
that causes the deep seated animosity. 
165  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / The problems with war on: July 06, 2012, 10:00:56 AM
"Today many former Israeli intelligence officers are warning America not to listen the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and to avoid a military clash with Iran.  Yuval Diskin, the retired head of the Shabak, the Israeli internal security service, has said Bibi is guided by “messianic feelings” which impair his judgement. Meir Dagan, his counterpart at the Mossad, the external security service, has said a military attack on Iran would be “stupid.” This time the warnings from our professional Israeli allies are not quiet."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/06/the-last-time-we-fought-iran.html
166  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Romney on: July 05, 2012, 10:08:54 AM
And this sort of thing is exactly one of the key points of the Santorum candidacy and one of the reasons that most of us here sought alternatives to MR-- that MR simply would not be able to represent well on this issue.

"Did Rick Santorum have a point when he said that Romney is “the worst possible person in this field to put up [as nominee] on this most fundamental issue of this campaign?” Uh, yes."    grin 
Good call Crafty!

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/05/romney-s-big-tax-bluff-why-it-will-haunt-him.html
167  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Political Rants & interesting thought pieces on: July 04, 2012, 09:03:23 PM
"The Egyptian Disaster"
What caught my attention in this post was:

"...the shah of Iran, a longtime U.S. ally who had a dismal human rights record..."
and
"...Hosni Mubarak, another longtime U.S. ally with a record of repressive rule..."

Objectivist1, I understand your post.  All is not roses.  But on this 4th of July, OUR Independence Day, didn't we too fight against "repressive rule"?  Isn't this freedom, isn't this the core
for what America Stands For?  If we can't support freedom, the choice of the people, whether we like their choices or not, who are we?  What are we?
If we support murderous despicable despots, albeit they are our "ally" what do we stand for?
168  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Romney on: July 03, 2012, 05:56:42 PM
Actually it was Bush gone for more than 1/3, not Reagan, but I agree, given modern communication, so what.  My parents lived a few doors down from Nixon's "White House" in San Clemente.  No one begrudged his "vacations" except maybe the locals since the Coast Guard took over the beach.  On that level, if you want to see someone, they come to you.  You don't have to be "in the office".  Not to mention modern communications allow you to be almost anywhere.  For example, as a "break", I'm doing work at a coffee shop at the moment.

I don't begrudge Romney his money.  But wrong or right, I do bet it will become an election issue.

I've read that Obama plays to a 16/17.  Although I wonder with that swing,   smiley  so my 10 handicap isn't much better.  I'ld like to think my swing looks better anyway, but maybe not.....  I do play strict rules; I've got a feeling Mulligans abound when the President plays.  You'ld think a few lessons would be in order...  smiley
To be fair, I've read that, "The president is private about a lot of things he does during the day; he is fiercely private about his golf game, and rarely allows reporters anywhere near him when he’s on a course."  Maybe with that swing, that's good?   smiley

The MacG compound sounds fabulous.  If I"m in MN or even nearby I might take you up on that kind offer.  As for "exorbitant property taxes" I think we had a discussion once before on property taxes so I remember I looked up MN.  You do pay a lot!  A lot more than Californian's pay as a percentage.  I figure taxes like much of life are like a balloon.  You push (tax) one place, you try to make it up elsewhere.  If I recollect your income taxes are lower in MN.  
169  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Romney on: July 03, 2012, 04:04:54 PM
No, WI up north is rather nice; although I didn't stay with anyone that had a "13 acre compound" not to mention New Hampshire real estate costs a lot more than N. Wisconsin.
I'm not begrudging his vacation; it was just a reaction to the criticism that Obama has gotten.  Bush took twice as many vacation days.  Reagan too took a lot more.
Reagan held the total vacation day record of 436 until the younger Bush left office with a grand total of 977 days away from Washington, representing 1/3 of his presidency.

http://open.salon.com/blog/mpbulletin/2012/04/13/jetting_around_obamas_vacation_record

As for his golf, again, I say so what?  But I will concede that is one ugly swing.   smiley
170  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Interesting reading on: July 03, 2012, 11:35:57 AM
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/03/q-a-with-michael-sandel-from-market-economy-to-market-society.html
171  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Oh to be so rich... on: July 03, 2012, 11:30:24 AM
While some criticize Obama's golf games or vacations at friends homes, compared to Romney he's a piker.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/03/vacation-primary-why-republican-candidates-win-the-summer.html
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/2012/08/investigating-mitt-romney-offshore-accounts
172  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Race, religion, ethnic origin, LGBT, & "discrimination" on: July 02, 2012, 05:46:31 PM
Agree or Disagree; what a nice informative "dinner conversation" this has been.
173  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Our Troops in Action on: July 01, 2012, 11:36:31 AM
"My death did not change the world; it may be tough for you to justify its meaning at all," wrote Will Stacey, who left behind college baseball at Shasta College in Redding to join the Marines in 2006. Military personnel often leave behind a final letter for their families in case they are killed.

"But there is a greater meaning," Stacey continued. "Perhaps there is still injustice in the world. But there will be a child who will live because men left the security they enjoyed in their home country to come to his. And this child will learn in the new schools that have been built.... He will grow into a fine man who will pursue every opportunity his heart could desire."

"He will have the gift of freedom, which I have enjoyed for so long. If my life buys the safety of a child who will one day change the world, then I know that it was all worth it."

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-william-stacey-20120701,0,3013530.story
174  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Camel Dung on: July 01, 2012, 11:33:16 AM
I read a good joke


How to get people to buy/believe your product.

Two places, ADL and Geller, have competing restaurants next door to each other downtown.

Naturally, they both advertise quality.

ADL's establishment is highly successful with long queues of customers who can't get enough of the quality.

On the other hand, Geller's business is struggling badly. On the rare occasion a customer ventures in for food he never comes back a second time.

Geller is despairing that she can't make a living. But she has a bright idea.

She arranges for her cousin to take a job in the restaurant of the ADL, his mission - to find out the ingredients that go into these highly popular dishes.

After a week, the cousin returns declaring triumphantly that he has the information.

"Well, out with it already, what do they put in those dishes?" asks Geller.

"I'll tell you", "it's 50% camel dung and 50% meat!"

"Aha!" shrieks Geller, "so that's his secret,....ADL adds meat!"

Geller's product is all camel dung!   grin
175  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in America on: June 30, 2012, 10:19:54 AM
I'm not an expert on the ADL, but I've heard good things overall.  No group is perfect all the time.  But....

"The Anti-Defamation League was founded in 1913 “to stop the defamation of the Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment to all.” Now the nation’s premier civil rights/human relations agency, ADL fights anti-Semitism and all forms of bigotry, defends democratic ideals and protects civil rights for all."

Not a bad goal....
176  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Sounds like ObamaCare to me on: June 30, 2012, 09:26:44 AM
In a 2009 op-ed published in USA Today, Romney urged Obama to work with Republicans on healthcare reform, and he held up the Massachusetts system and its use of “incentives” as a model.

“We established incentives for those who were uninsured to buy insurance. Using tax penalties, as we did, or tax credits, as others have proposed, encourages 'free riders' to take responsibility for themselves rather than pass their medical costs on to others,” Romney wrote in the article.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-romney-in-sticky-spot-on-health-reform-20120629,0,471209.story

http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos/2012/06/28/romney-praises-his-own-individual-mandate.html
177  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Police mistakes costs $millions on: June 30, 2012, 08:50:32 AM
"The Los Angeles City Council agreed Friday to pay $6.6 million to the family of a woman killed by a speeding police car, the largest amount the city has ever paid to resolve a police traffic collision."

"Officer Brubaker and his partner, who were responding to a report of a possible stolen car about two miles away, had not turned on the car's emergency lights and so were not legally allowed to be speeding. Other drivers and a reconstruction of the crash, however, estimated the police vehicle was going about 70 mph, twice the posted speed limit, according to a lawyer for Lugo's family and a confidential city report about the incident obtained by The Times."

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lapd-traffic-settle-20120629,0,1152162.story

"Officer Brubaker was not seriously punished by the department despite the finding that he was to blame. He received an admonishment."   shocked

If these were your employees wouldn't you fire them?  Our tax money paid over $6million for their incompetence.
178  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in America on: June 30, 2012, 08:26:28 AM
Actually Geller is a Wacko.

"Oren Segal, director of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Center on Extremism, said in an interview on June 22 that while his group and others have concerns about radical Muslim individuals and groups, Geller goes further, to the point of xenophobia.

“The difference between [Geller and] legitimate criticism about the very serious threat of radical Islam,” Segal said, “is that she vilifies the entire Islamic faith by making assertions that there are conspiracies against American values inherent in Islam.”

Source: Jewish Journal

Those two sites posted by objectivist1remind me of UFO or Loch Ness Monster sightings sites; "garbage", albeit entertaining.

179  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Issues in the American Creed (Constitutional Law and related matters) on: June 29, 2012, 10:14:20 AM
If Obama is re-elected, repeal will never happen regardless if Republicans take control of the senate.

Even if Obama is not re-elected, it will be interesting to see if the Republicans will be able to overcome a filibuster.
180  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in America on: June 28, 2012, 04:03:37 PM

"I never did address the issue if Dearborn Muslims Christians and the Police."

It was the question presented.

It was?  Objectivist! referred to "vital information" on these websites and their being "two excellent web sites".  There was lots of "information".  No specific mention by him of Dearborn.  The sites themselves had lots of information; much, the majority is terribly biased and frankly "garbage".  I provided a quote by a respected Jewish woman criticizing Ms. Geller.

"Nor did I even watch the specific video."

Why not?  And not having watched, how is it that you have an opinion?

I often don't often watch "news" videos.  I prefer the written word.  Videos often only provide a snippet of information; it's too easy to slant the perspective.  I did go at and watch the video after you referred me.  I also did research on the subject and found the Chief of Police blames the Christians in this instance for the problem.  Four Christians were arrested; obviously they did something wrong.    But my main point is that these two sites were "garbage" with nothing specific asked nor responded to by me regarding Dearborn.


181  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in America on: June 28, 2012, 01:02:48 PM
Yes, in general I did say the site was "garbage".  It's terribly biased, filed with innuendo and not good reporting. 

I never did address the issue if Dearborn Muslims Christians and the Police.  Nor did I even watch the specific video.

However, while I don't know the truth, and I do believe in free speech, yet it should be recognized that he Christians were much at fault.
A few were even arrested.  The Police blamed the Christians for the problem; if I remember 4 Christians were arrested.  How you present
a story is important.  It seems other than a few right wing blogs, few if any news reporters actually blamed the Muslims.

There is two two sides to the story.  The largest newspaper in Detroit reported as follows.

http://www.freep.com/article/20120616/NEWS05/120616015/1001/rss01

182  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Obamacare on: June 28, 2012, 09:53:03 AM
Constitutional?  YES!

5-4 decision affirms Obamacare! 

Here are the big main points out of the ruling:

Court rules 5-4 to uphold individual mandate
Court says the requirement to have insurance is a tax, and is constitutional.
Court says on Medicaid that the federal government may not take Medicaid from states that refuse to take part. (That is a limited ruling, without striking it down. In the ruling the court offered the government a way to remedy this potential problem.)
Court vindicates, affirms Presidential and congressional power in an important issue like health care.
183  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in America on: June 28, 2012, 09:45:46 AM
So then, why were you so negative with the clip from Obj. of the Dearborn mob running off the Christians with threats and the throwing of various objects while the police stood by?

I'm sorry, I did search various ways and I could not find where I was negative towards a specific clip from Obj. regarding the Dearborn mob running off Christians while police stood by.
Could you give me a reference or link?  Thank you.
184  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in America on: June 27, 2012, 01:49:51 PM
If Muslims disobey our laws, arrest them!  I still contend that the vast majority of one billion plus Muslims are law abiding good citizens and deserve the same respect as any other religion.
185  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in America on: June 27, 2012, 10:53:53 AM
Their right to worship is protected.

And their desire to change the laws in accordance with their faith, if done legally, is also protected.
 
Many religions have political views.  Catholics for example have recently had strong opinions on birth control.

I may not entirely agree, but I respect their right to express their opinion and dictate to their members.
186  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in America on: June 27, 2012, 09:54:45 AM
I would state the matter as "Islam is both a religion and a theocratic political theory".  The latter is contrary to the American Creed.

I too agree, "Islam is both a religion and a theocratic political theory" but then that can be said about a lot of RELIGIONS to varying degrees.  Yet all are protected
by our Constitution. 

Objectivist1; you don't post "facts" you post gibberish that few believe and has no basis for fact. I've never misquoted you or your absurd, ridiculous "sources". 
187  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Politics of Health Care on: June 27, 2012, 09:40:34 AM
So did CCP on this site.  Something needs to be done; it's an epidemic. 
188  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in America on: June 27, 2012, 09:37:22 AM
Please don't tell me to "keep my mouth shut".   rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes

You don't address the questions or the facts; rather you regurgitate nonsense.  For example, "Islam is not a religion".   huh
I think a billion+ people disagree with you.  And those are just the ones practicing Islam.  Most Christians and Jews I know acknowledge Islam
as a religion. 

I haven't read the Hindu or Buddhist holy books either yet I respect their right to practice their faith.  Our Constitution guarantees them, all religions,
the right to practice their faith.

Your web sites that you posted "are 100% reliable sources of information."  Surely you joke?   rolleyes
Most consider these blogger's quacks.  As your own web page quoted,


At the Huffington Post, Linda Milazzo wrote that as a Jew she was one who opposed Geller’s speech.

She wrote that, “While there is a small, non-majority percent of American Jews who may agree with Geller on certain issues, her presentation is so hate-filled and vulgar, she diminishes her opportunity for coalition and allegiance.”

189  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Marco Rubio on: June 27, 2012, 09:00:28 AM
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/27/marco-rubio-is-the-ideal-candidate-to-fill-out-the-second-spot-on-romney-s-ticket.html
190  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in America on: June 27, 2012, 08:06:23 AM
Objectivist1 - really, do you believe that garbage on those sites?   shocked  I hope not....

Islam is a religion; or at least a billion a so people seem to think so.  Most by far are peace loving.

Who cares who is paying for the Mosque?  If some rich donor from Saudi Arabia wants to pay, so what? 
There is no rule churches must be built with local money.  Lot's of churches have been built with money from out of town.

Using the same stupid analogy, that's like saying the Wisconsin elections weren't fair because most of the Republican money came from out of state.

As for the size, again so what; 25 years ago they built a 15 acre huge Buddhist temple (Hsi Lai Temple) in Hacienda Heights a small, mostly Christian (at that time) community near Los Angeles.
http://www.hsilai.org/en/index.html

Note, it was built only a few years after we had our butt kicked by Vietnam, a predominately Buddhist nation.  Maybe there was some sinister relevancy like your silly sites try to draw?   huh

People were opposed then like there are to this Muslim house of worship. Traffic, etc. but probably racial and religious hatred too.
http://articles.latimes.com/1988-07-28/news/hl-9819_1_hsi-lai-temple

Now everyone seems rather happy.  Hopefully, this Mosque will also be center for people to learn about Islam.
191  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Race, religion, ethnic origin, LGBT, & "discrimination" on: June 26, 2012, 09:18:59 AM
Cute story that a big Olympic star in a BIG money sport could get a break, but fhe unintended consequence of Title IX is that local girls here can no longer play for the University.

"the local girls can no longer play for the University".  Why not if they are good enough?  It they are not good enough, they can play for a smaller college.  Or even on Club teams.

"BIG money sport"?  Women's Basketball?  You must be kidding.  huh  Nearly all women's sports lose money including Basketball. 

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-04-05/sports/30039309_1_program-revenue-national-championship-game
192  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Immigration issues - the educated class on: June 25, 2012, 09:33:47 AM
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-0625-rodriguez-pew-asians--20120625,0,6955824.column
193  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Title IX on: June 25, 2012, 09:14:06 AM
Women's equal opportunity law in sports....  The Ann Meyers Drysdale story.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-pugmire-qa-20120625,0,6717823.story
194  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Race, religion, ethnic origin, LGBT, & "discrimination" on: June 25, 2012, 08:37:04 AM
Crafty, thank you for returning to this question.  It is an excellent post and a good beginning.  Much of what your friend says is well-reasoned and I agree.  However I found the following paragraph a bit misleading.


"Anti-discrimination laws go much further than the US Constitution.  They grant preferences to certain groups.  They criminalize certain personal behavior.  They prohibit individuals from making certain choices on the basis of the behavior of the persons against whom the individual wishes to discriminate.  I believe that people should discriminate based upon behavior – not race.  If we cannot discriminate based upon behavior, then society will move towards anarchy.  I believe that those laws are beyond the reach of the federal government."

A "behavior" is usually defined as "an observable activity in a human or animal."

For example, I don't like rude boorish people so I tend to avoid them.  Also, I don't like people who constantly criticize America.  I can and do discriminate/avoid them based upon their behavior.  It's legal. 

However, behavior is not the issue.  I can terminate anyone, including an African American for incompetence, however I should not be able to terminate an African American simply because I don't like blacks.  Race, color, gender, creed are the basis of wrongful discrimination.  That's wrong. Especially in public.  It's not a behavioral issue.

Discrimination has no place if you believe,
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
195  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Obama Phenomena on: June 21, 2012, 11:02:14 AM
In the forward to his memoir, Obama wrote that ‘for the sake of compression, some of the characters that appear are composites of people I’ve known, and some events appear out of precise chronology’.

That's why EVERYONE YAWNS including Maraniss....  smiley
196  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Issues in the American Creed (Constitutional Law and related matters) on: June 21, 2012, 09:45:33 AM
One key point of confusion is whether Republicans are now saying that invoking “executive privilege” implies that the White House was involved in the disputed communications with the DOJ. In other words, did the White House get involved with the more recent disputed documents? In a statement, Issa said “executive privilege only applies to materials that directly pertain to communications with the president and his senior advisers.”

Democrats and the Justice Department disagree. They argue that it is “executive branch” privilege, rather than a presidential privilege. Rep. John Tierney (D-Mass.) told The Daily Beast that Republicans have previously agreed the privilege can apply to departments in the executive branch. He cited Michael Mukasey, an attorney general under George W. Bush, who he said had argued that “a president can invoke executive privilege for those in his administration that need to be protected from public disclosure so he can have a full and vigorous debate.”

"With Democrats still in control of the Senate and supporting Obama, there is little more that House Republicans can do beyond next week’s vote to compel Holder or the president to do anything."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/21/democrats-gop-draw-lines-in-eric-holder-fast-and-furious-contempt-battle.html
197  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Issues in the American Creed (Constitutional Law and related matters) on: June 20, 2012, 08:57:58 PM
In the interest of fairness I think it should be pointed out that Bush claimed Executive Privilege SIX times.
198  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in America on: June 19, 2012, 04:38:05 PM
Objectivist1; I too think I have made my point clearly as possible; that you choose to blindly ignore that the majority of one billion followers, the 100's of millions of of Muslims that follow Islam are law abiding peaceful people refutes your "logic".  Only the radicals, those very few as a percentage wage war on us, are deemed to be our enemy.  Or do these these hundreds of millions of peace loving moderate followers of Islam "continue to labor in a fog of ignorance" too?   huh

Islam itself is NOT the problem; that is the only "fact" on the table.  Followers of Islam, Muslims have equal rights, no more no less than all Americans.  Further, they are deserving of the same respect.  Obviously you disagree.  Let's leave it there.  Your arguments have become absurd and illogical.
199  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in America on: June 19, 2012, 03:23:14 PM
Ojjectivist1; perhaps it is semantics, but, they are the same, because people who believe in Islam are called Muslims.  Islam is a religion while Muslims are people who believe in it.  "The followers of Islam are called Muslims. For example those who follow Christianity are called Christian and those who follows Buddhism are called Buddhists."
The terms are inseparable.

Your misleading and IMHO untrue article that you posted goes to great lengths trying to prove that there cannot be a moderate Islam; aka a moderate Muslim; I beg to differ. 

You posted:

"Gaffney also makes the following bold statement:
Gaffney replied that such wasn’t the case and that he knows that there are millions of Muslims who don’t want to live under sharia — Muslims who came to the U.S. to get away from sharia-based governments.
So Frank, are you saying that about half the Muslims here do not want it? (Technically if they do not want Sharia they have apostated, but I will give you a pass on that for now.) Where is your proof? You are starting to sound like a Muslim sympathizer like ACT!’s Guy Rodgers.
I proudly stand with colleagues Pamela Geller and Mr. Spencer on the issue of “moderate Islam”.
Pamela Geller: I have long derided the “moderate Islam” meme as a theory with no basis in reality or history. It’s wishful thinking, dangerous, and suicidal."


While you say, "there are NO MOSQUES that teach moderate Islam, that there are "no other options", I find it incongruent that the majority of the billion Muslims, followers of Islam are peace loving and moderate.  They are not our enemy. 

Just like there are many Christians and Jews who choose not to follow strict old testament law.  I am one of those; I consider myself a Christian, a follower of Christianity, a "moderate" so to speak versus old testament fire and brimstone.  I have devoted Jewish friends who also don't follow all the original rules.  No different than a moderate Muslim who is a follower of Islam but perhaps doesn't insist that one's arm be cut off for stealing.

Bottom line?  Islam is NOT the problem.  Nor is being a Muslim - a follower of Islam.  Only radical elements; specifically as Doug pointed out, "those at war with us". 


200  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in America on: June 19, 2012, 11:47:06 AM
Perhaps you are missing the point. 

Islam is not the problem we face.  Most, millions upon millions of Islamics are peace loving.  I think it is you, not I, who is speaking from ignorance if you criticize all Muslims.

And yes, you did and continue to mistake your Biblical point; while "currently, no major Christian denomination or Judaic one, for that matter - which teaches that it is the duty of Jews or Christians to go out and murder unbelievers" those versus are in the Bible which as Christians we hold as true. 

Yet as I have posted elsewhere, I like to think that Christians and most religions have "progressed".  Islam's progress seems a little slower.   smiley

Doug, "In the Bible, thou shalt not kill" in many cases doesn't seem to apply to non believers.  According to God that seems to be the exception.  However, I do understand your point.

I also agree, there is no reason to hate or be at war with a billion people, i.e. Muslims; only those individuals or specific groups at war with us.  That is exactly my point too.
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