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1901  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Obama Phenomena on: September 05, 2008, 10:54:43 PM
I mentioned this article a month or two ago but no one seemed interested;
but it does make some good points about "democracy" in Israel. 

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20071206gd.html
1902  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Obama Phenomena on: September 05, 2008, 10:22:07 PM
[
**Israel is a parliamentary democracy, not a theocracy. Most Israelis are secular Jews.**

**I disagree. I've spoken to more than a few that have gone on missions and they tend to cite such things as:

"On the last day, Jesus will say to those on His right hand, "Come, enter the Kingdom. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was sick and you visited me." Then Jesus will turn to those on His left hand and say, "Depart from me because I was hungry and you did not feed me, I was thirsty and you did not give me to drink, I was sick and you did not visit me." These will ask Him, "When did we see You hungry, or thirsty or sick and did not come to Your help?" And Jesus will answer them, "Whatever you neglected to do unto one of these least of these, you neglected to do unto Me!"**


I disagree: I think you misunderstood.  While food is nice and so is water/wine, and that may help conversions, however, the Kingdom of heaven is for those who believe; period.  How "nice" you are is just frosting on the cake, but "believe in me and you will be saved".  And so you can do all the good works you want, but if you don't truly believe and follow the Lord, you are damned.  It is very cut and dried; there is no grey.  That being said, if you truly believe, then you will help the hungry and thirsty and those that are fed and given water may be more prone to believe.  But the point is without belief, regardless of all your good works, you are going to hell.  Nobody gets invited to heaven without belief regardless of what good works they did.

As for Israel, is it truly a parliamentary democracy"?  hmmm I am a big fan of Israel, I only wish them well, but a true "democracy" it is not. If that was true, then the Palestinians should soon be in charge; one man one vote?  Isn't that a democracy?  And while "most Israelis are secular Jews" they are still Jews. It is a Jewish State.  I think most Israelis would admit they are a Jewish State and be proud of it.


[/quote]
1903  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Obama Phenomena on: September 05, 2008, 09:19:28 PM
GM; It seems odd for me to be defending Islam and "criticizing Christianity since I am a practicing Christian, truly believe in God's power and attend Church on most Sundays.That said, I beg to differ with your conclusions/questions/comments.

To ignore God's (Christian God) Law and make your own is also not acceptable is classic Christian theology.

I am not a theologian, but I'll try to express my opinion.  However, I think if your read the Bible, a theocratic state is thought to be ideal.  Israel is a theocratic state; while perhaps not Christians, the Old Testament has a strong influence.  The Catholic Church (I am not Catholic) at one time and I bet even today if asked privately would support a Christian theocratic state.  Our founding fathers decided not to be a Christian Nation, but rather a nation for all religions; rather wise of them. 

And "go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing  them..." has nothing to do with feeding the poor, tending to the sick, etc.
albeit all good.  It is very clear, MAKE DISCIPLES all nations, i.e. convert them to Christianity period.  That is the sole objective of missionary work; feeding the poor, educating them, tending to the sick gives them the inside track to conversion, but their objective is to convert people.  The rest is just a means to an end.

Yes, Jesus resisted earthly power; he looked upon his power as absolute far greater than any earthly power.  As for material things, they simply are not needed if you have the Lord in your heart and look forward to heaven; your final reward.  Live a good life, fight for the Lord, make disciples of all nations and you will be rewarded in heaven; is that much different than Islam?

I am not an expert on the Qu'ran (I read it a long time ago and need to do again), but then again, the Bible, especially the Old Testament is full of versus and chapters telling how God punished the disbelieving.  Actually, especially in the Old Testament, God is Love, but God is also a God of wrath; don't mess with him or oppose him or thousands will die and not a tear will be shed.

The Bible has become watered down.  But if you simply read the Bible, it's a "you are with Me or against Me" story; period; it is very black and white. Those that are not with Me and don't believe in Me and/or have a false God are condemned to Hell.  And no tears are to be shed for them.  And if one city after another of non believers is destroyed, well, that's their fault for not believing and following God's word.  And in the Bible a lot of cities of non believers were destroyed by the Lord.

That being said, I am truly grateful for the wisdom of our founding fathers not to make the U.S. a Christian Nation, but rather a nation that welcomes and tolerates all faiths.  I do not think any state should be a theocratic state, yet like Israel, I understand the attraction.


1904  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: September 03, 2008, 09:50:11 PM
I understand being an aviator by definition means you cannot be stupid; rather you must be an intelligent person not to mention have physical ability.   Although I wonder how fast an Admiral's son would be washed out.  However the argument on the table was the degree of God given intelligence.  I think McCain is a fine person and he is far far from stupid.  And experience counts.  My young and even beautiful attorney friend whom I mentioned is very very bright, but as Crafty mentioned, sometimes her common sense is very lacking.  But give her time...she has the basics. 

As for "hero" I am sincerely curious about your opinion.  To perhaps repeat my question, please understand I have the greatest respect and gratitude for Soldiers, Policemen, Fireman, etc. but are they all "heroes"?  Or is the "hero" the special individual who goes above and beyond at risk to themselves?
1905  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: September 03, 2008, 08:09:20 PM

**On what do you base your assumption that Barry is so smart?**


Definitely higher than a low graduating person at Idaho or someone near the bottom of their class at Annapolis who was admitted on connections. 

**You take cheap shots at McCain, yet I wonder what sort of heroism and sacrifice you could point out that Barry Obama has in his past? Anything to demonstrate he's not just an opportunist and an empty suit?**

I am talking God given brain power "smart".  BO is "smart", ask Crafty, only the "smart", actually the very "smart" get into Harvard Law and become Editor of the Law Review.  BO is smart.

As for "cheap shots at McCain, it is a fact.  The guy graduated very very near the bottom of his class at Annapolis.  And for that matter he would never even have gotten in except for his Daddy.  The guy is not smart; sorry, he's the one who is an opportunist.  Except for his Daddy he would be no where.  However to be fair, his experience is excellent and I think he is a good man.  The issue on the table however is "smarts"; not if he is a nice guy.

As for his "heroism and sacrifice" what does that have to do with "smart"?  I mean if he ran a four minute mile I would be impressed, but it has nothing to do with smart.  As for sacrifice or not being an opportunist in an empty suit, again as Marc might confirm, graduating from Harvard Law as Editor of the Law Review gives you wonderful opportunities to make big money.  BO didn't go for it; he chose to help people instead.  I have a good friend, she was "only" third in her class at Berkeley Law School, clerked for an Appeals Judge for one year, and now at the ripe old age of 25 joined a firm downtown LA at $175,000 including a nice little bonus.  Now she is bright, but she couldn't get into Harvard (she tried) so I guess that makes BO even brighter. 

By the way, (separate subject) I have always been curious about the word "hero" and "heroism".  I guess my definition is to do something extraordinary above and beyond your duty and what is expected of you to the benefit of another(s) at risk to yourself.    Simply choosing to be a Policeman, Fireman, or soldier does not make you a "hero".  I respect you, but a "hero" is someone who goes far and beyond their "usual" job.   Following that logic, a soldier who dies on the battlefied or a policeman who is shot by a robber is not automatically a "hero".  Nor is a roofer who falls off a roof and dies.  Or an Iron Worker who falls and dies.  They were doing their job; albeit all deaths are tragic.   But the soldier, the fireman, the policeman, even the roofer or Iron Worker, the individual who goes above and beyond his job at great risk to his own life, now that is a hero to me.  Nor does simply doing your job give you hero status.  Or do you disagree?  Or ?
1906  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: September 03, 2008, 09:24:16 AM
Look, I went to Columbia Law School-- not Harvard but not too shabby either.  My Constitutional Law prof was Ruth Bader Ginsburg.  I've been around these people and my clear sense of it is that a goodly number of them are as clueless about the real world as they are bright.  They think to cleverly articulate a synthesis of positions matters in the real world.

Definitely "not too shabby"; outstanding actually.  And you are very bright (even if you lapse once in a while and are a Republican)  smiley  And in BO's case being chosen Editor of the Law Review means he too is quite bright.  I understand your point that many of your classmates were clueless; but forgive them they are usually near the age of 25.  Fifteen years later, I bet most of your classmates are bright, articlulate, informed, and accomplished (whatever form that may take).   God (and hard work) gave them, and you, and BO higher intelligence than the average.  Definitely higher than a low graduating person at Idaho or someone near the bottom of their class at Annapolis who was admitted on connections.  Intelligence is not a prerequisite for higher office, but it would be nice if they were even above average.

PS  I think Ginsburg is fabulous; did you take good notes in her class?  You should review them    grin
1907  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: September 02, 2008, 05:53:50 PM
I think Rice was just following Bush's direction; that's her job.  And she is respected around the world.  And at least she is qualified. 

And I agree, in general, being married to the President doesn't qualify you for anything (although I find it odd that when a politician dies his spouse is the first to run for that office); that being said, Hillary, much more than Bush or Reagan participated in the legislative process.  As for experience, she is a U.S. Senator; something a lot more than only being a two year governor or Alaska is in comparison.  And oh yeah, before that she was Mayor of a town with 9000 people. 

And as we have discussed before, allegations, rumors, and false inuendoes about Hilary do not a criminal make.  Rather she was found guilty of nothing, zero, nada.  Nor was her husband...  In politics, it seems everyone is being accused of something.  The ones that are proven, taken to court and indicted, those are the ones to watch.  The others are just talk.

And while BO does not have comperable experience to McCain, he does have more national experience than does Palin.  Not to mention his intellect, as issue I believe, is far superior to Palin or for that matter McCain.  She/Palin seems like a "nice person"; that is fine for a neighbor, but as President???
1908  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: September 02, 2008, 03:23:24 PM
I think Susan Reimer said it perfectly; I am glad you printed the whole article.

By the way, "what election has Hilary won?"  Ahhh, you might not like her, but did you forget
she is a U.S. Senator from the State of New York.  Again, like her or not, but the experience
of Hilary, her education, her intellect, puts Palin to shame.  I understand Reimer's point.

Palin was mayor of a town of 9000 (I don't know offhand any towns that small) and
governor for two years of a State with a raindeer population greater than the number of people. 
She's not too bright (nor is McCain), she seems to be a "nice person" but second in line to be President??? 
Especially one who already is 72 and has had cancer??? Surely McCain could have done better???

If you truly wanted a qualified woman, how about Rice?  First class, very very bright, and experienced.
1909  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: McCain on: August 30, 2008, 11:46:16 PM
Just one question, she is a fine woman/person, I honestly like her, and I agree with many of her values,
but do you truly believe she is qualified to be President of the United States?  McCain is 70+ (it's not ageism)
and I am concerned.
1910  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: McCain on: August 30, 2008, 01:03:14 PM
We were driving back up to my mom's in upstate NY from NYC last night when we first heard.  Who?  WTF?  My first reaction was pandering and a foolish choice for a 71 year old man.  Saw the Brit Hume Report when we got in and there was a very nice piece on her; she seems very interesting but still the idea that she could step in just doesn't seem plausible.  For me its not much of an answer to say that she has more experience than BO. 

This WILL be interesting to see how this plays out.
Frankly, she has a lot less experience and education (mayor of a very small town and governor for two years of Alaska, a State with more Reindeer than people) than BO who could use a little more experience himself therefore I think Biden was a good choice.  And this is the woman who will be if elected, second in line, a heartbeat away from a President who will be 72 at the beginning of his term???  Bottom line, she seems like a fine woman, but someone with NO experience.  The fact that she is a woman (pandering?) an NRA member (good) and a mom of five (good for her) and is adamantly against abortion (her choice, but I believe it should be the free choice of a woman) does not nearly qualify her to be President.
 

Enter Sarah Palin. Ms. Palin may very well prove to be a not particularly gifted amateur,


As you say, she is not EVEN a particularly gifted amateur, much less an experienced professional.  Being President of the United States is the toughest job in the word, therefore someone who isn't even "a particularly gifted amateur" should never be in charge.

1911  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Immigration issues on: August 29, 2008, 10:44:08 PM
Nope, not a hallucination.....  shocked  It's the real me.  Actually, if you read between the lines, I am a very "fair" person; don't let the employers off either.  And I do believe in respecting (or change it) the law.  So get some sleep...  Maybe there is hope for me?   smiley
1912  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Immigration issues on: August 29, 2008, 08:58:40 PM
CCP I agree; go after the ILLEGAL immigrants AND go after the employers who employ them. Attack supply and demand
equally.  We are a nation of immigrants, LEGAL immigrants.  The word "illegal" is there for a reason.  And anyone
who harbors or provides them a job should also be severely punished.
1913  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: McCain on: August 29, 2008, 12:11:29 PM
Sarah Palin?  Who?Huh?  What a joke.  A first term governor who admits "she was just a soccer mom before."  She is a good person,
but.......

I thought McCain said experience was important, "vital to our nation"?  And at McCain's age he needs someone truly qualified as his number 2.  Why Palin except to pander to the women's vote?  McCain/Palin; I am disappointed.  That's the best he could do?
1914  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Obama Phenomena on: August 27, 2008, 10:00:37 PM
**The bold is my emphasis. I suggest you follow the link and read the whole article.**

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/199009/muslim-rage

SEPTEMBER 1990 ATLANTIC MONTHLY
Why so many Muslims deeply resent the West, and why their bitterness will not easily be mollified

BY BERNARD LEWIS
The Roots of Muslim Rage


If the idea that religion and politics should be separated is relatively new, dating back a mere three hundred years, the idea that they are distinct dates back almost to the beginnings of Christianity. Christians are enjoined in their Scriptures to "render ... unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and unto God the things which are God's." While opinions have differed as to the real meaning of this phrase, it has generally been interpreted as legitimizing a situation in which two institutions exist side by side, each with its own laws and chain of authority—one concerned with religion, called the Church, the other concerned with politics, called the State. And since they are two, they may be joined or separated, subordinate or independent, and conflicts may arise between them over questions of demarcation and jurisdiction.

An interesting observation, but I believe Christianity has been watered down.  I am not sure Church and State are "distinct".  Dating from Biblical times, civil disobedience was promoted if the word of the LORD was different than that of the government.  The Crusades again tried to impose Christianity upon the Middle East. 

Christians are commanded to "make disciples of ALL nations and ethnic groups.  And Jesus commanded, either you are gathering with ME or you are against ME.   Many Christian theologians have said that Christians have a clear choice to accept God's blessing and love or His wrath as the price of rebellion against HIS will in government here on earth.  Either you follow his word or you are damned.  And it is your duty to spread his word...

In Palms it says, "The earth is the LORDs and the fullness thereof, the world and those who dwell therein."  And, "Let them know that you whose name is the LORD that you alone are the most high over the earth.  Clearly, the LORD is a higher power and should be obeyed versus government.

And in Matthew 28: 18-19 "And Jesus came and said to them, ALL authority in heaven and earth has been given to me.  Go therefore and make disciples of ALL nations, baptizing them...

And in 2 Corinthians 10:5 it says, "Casting down imaginations and everything high that exalteth itself against the knowledge of GOD and bringing into captivity every thought to the OBEDIENCE of Christ."

My point; if your read the Bible, it is actually rather aggressive; "either you are for ME or against ME!"  And backing it up, especially in the Old Testament there are numerous examples of the LORD striking down or destroying those that oppose him or his word.

Yes, render on to Caesar that which is Caesar'a and unto the LORD that which is the LORD's.  But the point, IF there is a conflict, ALWAYS obey the LORD, forget about Caesar. 

Perhaps the Koran has good and bad as well?

Is it really that different?
1915  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Obama Phenomena on: August 26, 2008, 09:06:07 PM

**Do me a favor and define what "radical conservatism" is to you.**



"radical" conservatism.  A poor choice; I apologize; "radical" is not appropriate in this instance.

And YES I was equally upset when Romney "was getting skewered from the left.  Wrong is wrong;
whatever guise it takes.

As for Christianity's core theology allowing for secular government; historically, I am not sure about
that.  Sorry, got to go, but I did owe an apology for "radical".
1916  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: August 26, 2008, 11:36:59 AM
Marc, you mentioned you don't like Cafferty, but you might find this article interesting.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/25/cafferty.clintons/index.html
1917  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: August 26, 2008, 11:34:19 AM
I get it - she is not liked because she has a vagina.

huh

1918  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: August 26, 2008, 11:01:43 AM

It is amazing all the gals who run around saying she lost because of sexism.  Oh I get it.  It's not that she is a lying stinking manipulative selfish thief.  It is because she is a woman.  Right, and she "broke through 18 million ceilings".  This country is f***.

Now of course hedge fund Chelsea is being groomed to continue the clan of grifters.

O Great Moderator in the Sky, whether you like the Clintons (some do, many do not) or not, or whether you have criticism to offer, isn't there a limit on a forum searching for truth?  As GM (with whom I often disagree) appropriately likes to say and usually does,  "back it up with facts."   But wonton defamation doesn't seem appropriate or am I wrong?

1919  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: August 26, 2008, 09:11:21 AM
Yes, McCain did look good on Leno; even I had to like him   smiley  I find it odd/disappointing that Obama who is highly educated, a fine lawyer, is still unwilling to debate in an open forum.  This is a close race; no one is truly ahead, so let them go head to head.  Obama's reluctance to do so may haunt him.
1920  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The Obama Phenomena on: August 26, 2008, 09:06:19 AM
I notice that often on this forum "Front Page Magazine" is quoted (cut and pasted).  Albeit interesting, it is hardly the pinnacle of the sources available in the search for impartial and unbiased truth.  Rather it is an extreme right wing biased magazine who definitely seems to only have a radical conservative agenda. 

As for the issue of faith, IF Obama was or is Muslim, why is that, by itself, good or bad?  IF Obama was or is a Jew, why is that good or bad?  IF Obama was or is a Christian, why is that good or bad?  Fine men and women, peace seeking men and women exist in all of these faiths.  Evil exists in all faiths.  As does good.  Our country was founded on the principle of freedom of religion.  We are not a "Christian" Nation, but a free nation - you can choose your religion without worry.  That is the cornerstone of our country.  We preach tolerance; why promote articles of religious hate?

I have read many inflammatory and seemingly hateful articles on Obama being possibly Muslim.  Does that seem right?  If he was a Jew would such articles be tolerated?  I hope not.  Yet Romney is being criticized for being Mormon.  Again, is that right?  I mean if you don't like the man, fine, yet I know many fine Mormons, Jews, Muslims, et al.  What's the problem?  Kennedy had to go through this because he was Catholic - I had hoped/thought America was finally past such obvious bigotry.  IF you think Obama is/was a Muslim so what?  IF you like him, like what he says and the direction he suggests, vote for him.  IF not, don't, vote for McCain, another person, or simply abstain.  But if a Buddist or Hindu was running, and you liked them, you should vote for them.  Don't base your decision on the color of their skin or their own belief in their God.  That is not the American way.

1921  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: August 25, 2008, 10:59:29 PM
I understand and agree for that smaller manageable tragedies I am responsible and then local and then the State; BUT like Katrina, an overwhelming tragedy, if CA had the "big one" I would hope FEMA and the Federal Government would move to the head of the line rather than being 3rd man up.  They have the resources and the money and supposedly the expertise.
1922  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: August 25, 2008, 09:07:21 AM
Woof JDN:

IMHO GM's response to you (cut and paste as it may be  evil  cheesy ) makes many very cogent points.  I await your responce  grin

In a separate vein, it is shocking that MSM has not covered BO getting his butt kicked in debate with a black conservative.

TAC!
Marc

Marc,

It is my thought on a disaster of the magnetude that the government FEMA was or should have been
most qualified to coordinate and fund the response.  They failed and should be held responsible.

That being said,

What can I say?  GM cut and pasted well   smiley
I agree with most of the "Lessons Learned"

And I think the Salvation Army is an Outstanding Organization and
I have a very high respect for the Red Cross here and internationally.
Plus many other organizations, churches, etc. stepped up when the
government didn't.  Almost all were truly outstanding.

It just wasn't (couldn't be) enough without government's help.  And
I think FEMA failed.
1923  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: August 24, 2008, 10:56:14 PM
"I knew that the man in charge of disaster preparedness at the Federal Emergency Management Agency turned out to be incompetent and unqualified."

**So, how did the conservatives get the incompetent  DEMOCRATS elected to Louisiana governor and New Orleans mayor?**


Ahhhh, I am confused; it was actually the REPUBLICANS at the FEDERAL Emergency Management Agency who were unbelievably incompetent.  Katrina was truly a terrible national disaster that should have been resolved on a Federal (Republican) level; it could not be resolved on the local level; the disaster was too big.  That is what FEMA is for.  And failed miserably to do. 
1924  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Quotes of note: on: August 24, 2008, 01:54:45 PM
In today's L.A. Times there was a good article on Sen. Biden; good and bad was pointed out.
But I did like the quote, "Respected, but not always popular".

Not bad for one's epitaph
1925  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: August 24, 2008, 01:50:13 PM
In today's L.A. Times Book Section there is a good review of "The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Rule"
by Thomas Frank

http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-ca-thomas-frank24-2008aug24,0,7775862.story
1926  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Law Enforcement issues on: August 22, 2008, 02:43:16 PM
Hmmmmm. That kind of sounds like making a brief statement to the police.....    evil

Maybe  grin  hmmm

But it's a short one and I talk fast.   smiley



1927  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: August 22, 2008, 02:05:38 PM
Sure I got it. Our Global Moderator was trying to make a simple point that you disallowed via narrow scrutiny. Maybe next we can discuss what the meaning of "is" is.

Huh

1928  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: August 22, 2008, 12:32:09 PM
"Gotcha"Huh  Guinness lover; "felon" is a technical legal term; "felon; a person who has been CONVICTED of a felony".  As for the group you mentioned, mass murderers they may be but they are not convicted felons.  Nor is Clinton a convicted felon.  Nor is Bush or Cheney.  Got it?
1929  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: August 22, 2008, 11:34:21 AM
Quote
Ahhh I have no interest turning this into a Bill and Hillary debate (or a Bush/Cheney debate), but for the record the fact is Bill and Hillary were NEVER convicted of perjury.

So if a tree falls in the forest, blue dress and "I didn't have sexual relations with that woman" and all, it doesn't make a sound? Trust the converse is true that Bush, Cheney, Rove, Petaeus, et al aren't war criminals, election stealers, tools of big oil, members of various cabals bent on world domination, felons, and all the other dreck and gibberish that many throw around about 'em?

Yup!  the converse is true that Bush Cheney Rove (I prefer to leave Petaeus out of this: I respect him) were never CONVICTED of being election stealers, tools of big oil, etc.  Like Clinton, maybe there should be convicted, but they were not.

My only point is to clear the record; the FACT remains that Clinton was NEVER convicted of a felony.  Whether he should have been, what you think he did or didn't do, agreements he made, etc. doesn't change the simple fact he was NEVER convicted therefore by definition he is not a felon.  Marc had said he was; I am merely clarify the facts for the record that Clinton is not a felon; period.
1930  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Law Enforcement issues on: August 22, 2008, 09:45:58 AM
First and immediately I would call 911. I would say something short like, "send an ambulance, I was attacked and someone is very badly hurt, I am located at ...." And no more.  Next, I would then call my attorney (I have enough friends who are one - no retainer necessary) and follow his/her advice. 
1931  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: August 22, 2008, 09:15:18 AM
""serial felons"  A rather strong term. I don't remember either Bill or Hillary (don't know about the
rest of the family) ever being found guilty of any felony.  Maybe I am wrong?"

Well apart from the perjury conviction, no.  That said, I mean this accusation in complete seriousness.  In my strongly held opinion these two are despicable criminals. 


Ahhh I have no interest turning this into a Bill and Hillary debate (or a Bush/Cheney debate), but for the record the fact is Bill and Hillary were NEVER convicted of perjury.  Anotherwords, I stand by my comment that neither of them has ever been found guilty of ANY felony.  I understand you have a low opinion of them as do I have a low opinion of the ethics of Bush and especially Cheney but they too have never been found guilty of any felony.  It is all conjecture. 
1932  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Law Enforcement issues on: August 22, 2008, 08:48:57 AM

**The point were are debating is not to have an attorney or not, but if it's good policy to never talk to the police, no matter what.**[/b]
[/quote]

Perhaps I was/am not clear; often there is a need and/or it is appropriate to talk to police; however I think it ONLY should be done with one's lawyer present; not in the heat of the moment when you are under extreme stress and adrenalin is out of control; people say the strangest things and it might come back to haunt you.  As you pointed out, if a shooting happened while you are on duty, you are required (unlike a normal citizen who may rightfully decline to answer) to file a report by the end of the day, yet note, even you (a trained officer of the law) are not required nor expected to say anything at the scene.  Why?  Because officers understand, your union understands that by the end of the day, you have had time to get your wits about you AND contact an attorney.  I think a normal citizen should simply do the same.
1933  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Law Enforcement issues on: August 21, 2008, 01:42:49 PM
Let's get this straight; Miquel Goodguy killed one (Johnny Ratzo) and wounded two others forcing them to flee.  And Miguel is covered in blood.  No witnesses to how it started, just one witnesses report, "fight in progress".  Seems to me that the Det. has PC to arrest Mr. Goodguy regardless of how he tells the story and/or the previous arrest record of the "victims". 

Talking to police MAY get him exonerated OR arrested.  And his own words might bury him later.  The "disparity of force and violence of the assault" needs to be proven and evaluated by the DA.  And hanging overhead is the potential civil action of the "sweet and innocent" bride of dear but dead Johnny Ratzo.  What was Mr. Goodguy's state of mind?  Could lethal force have been avoided?  Did he try to retreat, or did he take the attack to them?  We (the police) don't know the "facts", just Mr. Goodguy's opinion. 

I still would think Basic Rule # is to keep your mouth shut.  "I am so shook up, I just can't talk right now..." and wait until your attorney arrives is good advice.  Wait for an attorney; his job is to defend you.

As an example, most Officer Involved Shooting Protocols ask for the officer involved to give a voluntary statement immediately after the shooting.  Yet in nearly every case BEFORE giving a voluntary statement to his own police department the officer involved will "speak with their attorney PRIOR to giving a voluntary statement."  Now, if a police officer thinks an attorney is necessary BEFORE he gives a voluntary statement, I sure do!
1934  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Russia-Georgia on: August 21, 2008, 09:37:29 AM
Ahhh I have always liked the quote, "I don't care if he's a dictator as long as he's (America) our dictator".  So true; we have supported so many despots and butchers to further our own gain and oddly quite a few have come back to bite us.  And only then do we act noble and indignant. 

We can't be the policeman of the world; tragedy happens, or as GM said, "War is brutal and horrible."  GM, I believe YOU said, "If I had to choose between dead enemy civilians and dead US troops, I'ld choose for dead enemies."  Obviously, you don't care a whole lot for those innocent civilians - so what's your point or criticism of the "liberal left"?
1935  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: August 21, 2008, 09:23:08 AM
GM; I used to always like statistics in college; you can make them do almost anything.  Rather than looking at the number of people, let's look at wealth.  I mean don't you expect the rich American, the guy with the big house, the guy driving the new Benz to give more than the poor guy in the next town?  Simply put, America (the richest nation on earth) does not give, at least in comparison to their peers.  US aid in terms of percentage of their GNP has always been much lower than other industrialized nations.  As a percentage (2005) of GNI again we rank low; Norway is .95, Spain .41, UK .36 Italy .19 and numerous other countries all rank above the US paltry .16.

Plus counted among US aid are the millions/billions given to Iraq and others to fight the war on terror; important of course, but if you are hungry or dying of disease that doesn't help.  Take those dollars out and well, we rank even lower.

Yes, America gives privately, but that does not even come close to making up for the deficit of America being stingy as a nation.  As Dr. James Obrinski said, "... private donations are feel good, short term interventions and no substituted for the vastly larger and essentially political task of bringing health care to more than a billion people."

I think, I don't know, that Obama's point might have been that America as a nation should give more to the poor and needy of the world.  We should take a leadership position, not rank out of the top 10.  Rather we should be number one i.e. giving the greatest amount as a percentage of GNP.
1936  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: August 20, 2008, 12:40:33 PM
Well, he certainly hates those serial felons, the Hillbillary Clintons-- with good reason IMHO. 

"serial felons"Huh  A rather strong term. I don't remember either Bill or Hillary (don't know about the
rest of the family) ever being found guilty of any felony.  Maybe I am wrong?
1937  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: August 20, 2008, 09:48:46 AM
Crafty, you called Cafferty a "chattering twit".   shocked
Perhaps...

So given his recent biased and vindictive books,
how would you categorize Dick Morris...?
In fairness, something much worse than a
mere "chattering twit?" I presume?   grin
1938  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: McCain on: August 19, 2008, 03:52:21 PM
Sooo maybe we will see those debates after all  cool
I hope so.

And hilbillie or not, don't mess with Bill   smiley
1939  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: McCain on: August 19, 2008, 02:36:52 PM
I am not defending nor am I necessarily a fan of Caffferty, and I too would like to see the "10 debates" (although it is not the first time in political history that the frontrunner has declined to debate; why give McCain the stage?), but my question regards McCain's intellectual capability or his lack thereof.  If it wasn't for his Father and family (reminds me of Bush) he simply wouldn't be where he is today.  Heck, with his intellect McCain never would have even gotten into the Navel Academy (894 in a class of 899?).  Connections are great, especially in Washington, but as President, well often the President alone needs to make the tough decisive decisions, but first he needs to grasp the consequences.  "The buck stops here" is a truism, not just a trait phrase.  And he needs to be up to it; McCain a nice guy with fun retorts but where is the depth?  That and his age (it's not ageism) concern me.   Note, I am not saying Obama is a panacea.  A pity the Republicans couldn't have done better.
1940  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: McCain on: August 19, 2008, 09:00:36 AM
I still often worry if McCain is up to the job.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/18/cafferty.mccain/index.html
1941  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: The 2008 Presidential Race on: August 18, 2008, 11:31:01 AM
"Biased"; I don't think so.  McCain WAS speaking to his base or at least he hopes/wants it to be his base;
it's not "biased", it's simply true.

That does not negate that McCain may have done a better job.
1942  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Russia-Georgia on: August 17, 2008, 07:53:30 PM
Saddam was not a nice guy; but check out the players in Sudan, N. Korea, Africa etc. etc. etc; they are/were worse; why don't we go after them?   In the end, Bush decided he really didn't like Saddam; personal I guess, but not really a good reason to go to war.  All of Bush's original "logical" reasons seemed to have been disproved as lies, mistakes and mirrors.

And since we invaded Iraq, according to the W.H.O./Iraq study over $200,000 innocent civilians have died. Other studies have put the number at over 400,000+ innocent deaths directly caused by the war; collateral damage I think they call it.  But I doubt if it was your family that you would call it "collateral damage".  Not to mention as pointed out above the damage to the infrastructure.  Plus I don't think anyone (as you have pointed out) is offering any guarantees that the killing will stop after we leave - it may even get worse.  One must wonder, given the hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths, the destruction of the country, and the potential for a bloody civil war if Iraq is truly better off?  And is the world safer?  Time will tell...

My point and the article's point?  America should not be a hypocrite.  I don't approve of Russia going into Georgia, but we too have caused death and destruction.  And I bet we would do it again if Russia or Iran or N. Korea came calling and wanted to be close friends with our Mexico neighbor, putting "defense" missiles in our back yard.

1943  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Russia-Georgia on: August 17, 2008, 06:41:02 PM
Actually, the source I quoted was approximately two years after the invasion; rather appropriate timing I would think given that the purpose was  a comparison of damage caused by the two actual invasions.  And you brought up schools and medical; I simply pointed out "what we did" i.e. the result IS the same.    My point, the article's point is that we shouldn't be hypocrites.  As to the "noble" cause WHY we we invaded Iraq?  Well, Bush keeps changing the answer so often, I have lost track of the all the given reasons.  It seems like lie after lie; I am still waiting for the truth... oil maybe? 
1944  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Russia-Georgia on: August 17, 2008, 05:38:09 PM


**It's hardly a good point. We freed the Iraqis from Saddam and are rebuilding the country. I doubt very much Russian troops are building schools and giving medical treatment to Geogians right now.**
[/quote]

Ahhh lately we sure aren't doing a very good job of rebuilding ; and we did a heck of a job destroying Iraq.

– Education: According to a 2005 analysis by the United Nations University, since the 2003 invasion, 84 percent of Iraq’s higher education institutions had been “burnt, looted or destroyed.”

– Medical Care: Before the U.S. invasion, there were 34,000 doctors registered in Iraq; an estimated 20,000 have left since then. “It’s definitely worse now than before the war,” Eman Asim, a Ministry of Health official who oversees the country’s 185 public hospitals, told the New York Times in 2004.

1945  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Russia-Georgia on: August 17, 2008, 02:27:45 PM
While nearly everyone here touts McCain's foreign policy experience, and rightfully so, one must questio the reason for his position on Georgia given that McCain's top foreign policy and national security advisor Scheunemann up until May 15th of this year was still being paid by the government of Georgia as a lobbyist. "There's been an exchange of money (a lot of money) when he's been advising McCain to take some action".    Surely McCain could do better?

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-advisor17-2008aug17,0,6476734.story


1946  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Russia-Georgia on: August 17, 2008, 02:02:49 PM
While it is easy and perhaps right to admire and respect the Georgians, one needs to be practical too.  And, sometimes one needs to be fair and put ourselves in the other (Russian) person's shoes.  Aren't we being a little bit hypocritical in our condemnation of Russia when we would probably have done the same thing if Mexico became a close Russian/Iranian/North Korean ally with talk of a missile defense system?

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-react17-2008aug17,0,2584755.story

A good point is raised.


1947  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Law Enforcement issues on: August 13, 2008, 11:34:30 PM
Ahhhh that is my concern; protection/erosion of Civil Liberties.
1948  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Law Enforcement issues on: August 13, 2008, 10:52:54 PM
I understand; the expectation of "privacy" of or in a car is minimal.  But personal searches are different.
And if you have a GPS, leading the Police to you, yet you are on private property,
additional legal/warrant questions remain unanswered.  And is that right?
1949  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Law Enforcement issues on: August 13, 2008, 04:59:21 PM
Now I understand; I had misinterpreted your "Good".  I had thought you were in favor of less expectation
of privacy.  I agree in most instances legislation and case law is quite clear, and overall, I think probably fair.
As noted above, I suppose GPS and new technology needs further case law, coming in on one side or another,
to bring closure to this specific debate.
1950  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Law Enforcement issues on: August 13, 2008, 04:33:19 PM
Good.



To paraphrase, I think you are saying it is, "good to have no reasonable expectation of privacy"?
Where do you draw the line? Or don't you?
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