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1  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: World Trade Center Tower 7 on: June 30, 2007, 07:02:30 AM
Let me get some things straight with you.  I didn’t come to any conclusions without a whole lot of research.  A lot of my knowledge did not come from internet bullshit but from books.  I’m still young but have immense life experience as well including 11 years of teaching rock climbing internationally.  I traveled and climbed in Nepal, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Mexico and Peru.  I also voted for Bush both times.  Up until 2 years ago, I listened to Michael Savage and Hannity and thought like most conservative republicans.  When 9-11 happened I wanted to kick ass and let God sort out the dead.

I’ve poured over books and essays from authors like Lysander Spooner, Frederic Bastiat, Albert Pike, Boston T Party, Vin Suprynowicz, Ayn Rand, Gary Allen etc…I am fortunate enough to have access to my Grandmother’s library of old books dating back to the 1920s and old history books before it was renamed social science.

I always knew something was wrong but could never put my finger on it.

I was exposed to the Alex Jones documentary Martial Law: 9-11 Rise of the Police State (available on google video) 2 years ago. I took notes throughout the 3 hour doc and spent 2 weeks fact checking all the outrageous claims he made.  Everything checked out.  My worldview changed dramatically from that point on.  I hadn't even concieved that 0-11 was anything other than 19 hijackers with plastic knives before then.

I progressed into reading about libertarians and the sovereignty movement in America.  More conclusions began to form in my mind.  I ended up buying a Law Dictionary so I could sort through the mounds of legal language.  I realized that America has three languages, slang, formal, and legal.  Good luck communicating in court without some knowledge of legal English.

The ideals of freedom and individual sovereignty of the past no longer exist in the minds of men today.  We no longer think of ourselves as human beings but as legal persons, human resources or human capital.  It is evident in the way we have allowed government to turn God given inalienable rights into privileges.  Freedom of travel, freedom to sell your labor, freedom to own a pet, even the freedom to defend oneself, are all privileges which require taxes and regulations.

We can be charged with a crime or infraction even though there are no damages.  A fictitious person such as THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA can bring charges against us.  Even the Magna Carta states that a public official cannot make an arrest without a complaint from a citizen.  In the past a sheriff could not make an arrest without a complaint from a citizen and a warrant from the judge or without having witnessed the crime in progress.  There is no such discretion today.  A petty example is jaywalking or not wearing a seatbelt.  An official can impose a fine on you without any damages, due process, and when no crime was even committed.

Police officers are just corporate policy officers.  The laws created by our legislature are not laws but commercial codes.  For human beings, there is only one law above us.  God’s law.  The Constitution and all government is based on contract alone.  When we contract by getting a driver’s license we agree to abide by the terms of the Vehicle Code.  When we contract with the state to be legally married, we agree to abide by the terms of the State Marriage Statutes.

The 13th amendment abolished slavery.  The 14th amendment created a class of citizens called united states citizens intended for emancipated slaves.  Not long after the 14th, the sovereign citizens of each state were deceived into becoming US Citizens.
 
Our whole legal system today is based on maritime/admirality/commercial law rather than common law.  Our courts are legislative article II tribunals rather than article III common law courts.

This country has been in bankruptcy since 1933.  Our legal tender is nothing more than a debt note rather than a valued currency.  The more you have in your possession, the more you owe to the Federal Reserve since it has all been borrowed and we have to pay it back.  Inflation is a hidden tax.  Federal Reserve Notes are fiat resting on the faith that your neighbor will accept it.

Our birth registration is a legal document that creates a corporate existence (strawman) which is used as a transmitting utility to contract with the government.  This registration is under federal jurisdiction and our future labor is offered as collateral for the national debt.  HJR 192 of 1933.  Our legal person or strawman is owned by the federal government though contract with the parents.

Since 1867 (act of 1867 and 1871), the united states of America seized to exist.  The Bank of England purchased a 10 square mile of land in DC and called it UNITED STATES OF AMERICA INC.  That is what our government is today.  A corporation.

Our legislators have discovered (or it was intentionally built into the document) loopholes in the Constitution.  The ‘general welfare’ clause and the treaty clause both come to mind.  They have used general welfare to impose itself into areas that were not expressly written into the Constitution.  Our government is a monster in which there are occasional restrictions.

It may seem to others, especially you, that my way of thinking is just crackpot ideas.  But they are grounded in an understanding of how our system works.  We are not taught these things in school.  Read about the Reese committee of 1953.  Very little can be found about it on the internet but it exists in older books.  Most recently I found it mentioned in an old Dan Smoot book from 1964.  It explains how tax exempt foundations such as Ford and Carnegie Hall have controlled public education to fit a communist agenda.

My views on freedom are totally extreme today but would have been commonplace in this country 200 years ago.  When our Constitution was created  the people were above the Constitution and the government was the people’s servant.  The people were ruled by common law alone.  With the civil war and the 14th amendment and various other deceptions (social security, birth registration, income tax, the creation of corporations with the full rights and privileges of humans) we have allowed ourselves to become a slave class of citizens under the control of our government.

You ask what I have done besides chest thumping and cutting and pasting from ‘truther’ websites?  I repatriated as an American National rather than a US Citizen (look on a passport to see the difference), I cancelled all open contracts with the government thereby I am no longer under their jurisdiction, closed all bank accounts, I do not owe one penny to anyone.  Essentially, I am a sovereign. 

So you asked my opinion on why Bush didn’t take advantage of his high ratings if 9-11 was his Reichstag fire?  I don’t think Bush is the endgame.  His family bought a million acre plot in Paraguay next to the Moonies million acre plot.  I believe he will flee when the time comes.  I believe this country is being destroyed on purpose.  I believe that once Bush is gone, people will be so relieved with a new President (I predict Obama and Gore on the winning ticket) and sick of our foreign policy that focus will shift to domestic socialized programs which will only further create more dependency on big government.  Once that dependency is established, there will be tracking and control methods put in place such as National ID cards with RFID chips, mandatory GPS devices in new cars, elimination of cash, more gun control legislation etc.  The war on terror will never end.  We are a nation controlled by fear.  America cannot be ruled by a dictator yet, we are too stubborn.  We have to be conditioned to the point were we ask for our own enslavement.

I believe that we will be under British rule once again.  The Treaty of Paris was a treaty, not a surrender.  The Revolutionary War was never finished.  The terms of the treaty granted us our sovereignty from Britain but with Britain controlling our commerce.  I also believe that the white tie affair with Bush and the Queen was symbolic of a white flag surrender and coincided with the Transatlantic Economic Integration which received no media converage whatsoever and can only be found on the whitehouse.gov website.

Call it crackpot ideas if you wish, but time will tell.  I had a great time ‘sparring’ with you GM, but posting on forums is not for me.  Too time consuming, I feel I said what I wanted to say.
2  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: World Trade Center Tower 7 on: June 30, 2007, 02:08:16 AM
It would be foolish and ignorant to assume that the worlds greatest superpower would not have contingency plans to protect itself from internal resistance whether justified or not.

If you pay attention to what you read you would find the article on the Halliburton detention centers reads...

KBR would build the centers for the Homeland Security Department for an unexpected influx of immigrants, to house people in the event of a natural disaster or for new programs that require additional detention space, company executives said. KBR, which announced the contract last month, had a similar contract with immigration agencies from 2000 to last year.

You lack the ability to read into things, GM. You seem to have an image of our government that is completely infallible.  That kind of attitude is more dangerous than anyone who would criticize, whether right or wrong.
3  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: What is "Democracy"? on: June 30, 2007, 01:51:43 AM
At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution in 1787, a Scottish history professor by the name of Alexander Tyler had this to say about "The Fall of the Athenian Republic" over 2,000 years previous to that date:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse (generous gifts) from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy,(which is) always followed by a dictatorship.

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
from spiritual faith to great courage;
from great courage to Liberty;
from Liberty to abundance;
from abundance to complacency;
from complacency to apathy;
from apathy to dependence;
from dependence back into bondage."

"Democracy never lasts long,
it soon wastes itself,
exhausts and murders itself.
There never was a democracy yet
that did not commit suicide."

                        Samuel Adams

Quotes are from www.usff.com

Until Americans re-learn the difference between a democracy and a republic, we will be doomed.  The fact our President wants to spread democracy around the world by using force should be against everything we stand for....
4  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / CIA 'Family Jewels' on: June 29, 2007, 06:40:55 PM
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21978876-663,00.html

CIA bent four-year-old girl's mind

EASILY lost, on page 425, in the mass of the CIA's notorious "Family Jewels" files is a short paragraph outlining "potentially embarrassing Agency activities".

"Experiments in influencing human behaviour through the administration of mind- or personality-altering drugs to unwitting subjects."

Of all the heinous acts committed by the CIA in the name of national security, these experiments, done on the agency's behalf by prominent psychiatrists on innocent victims - including children as young as four - may be the darkest.

"We have no answer to the moral issue," former director Richard Helms infamously said when asked about the nature of the projects.

The release of the Family Jewels documents revealed the CIA handsomely funded these real-life Dr Strangeloves and engaged pharmaceutical companies to help its experiments.

The agency appealed to Big Pharma to pass on any drugs that could not be marketed because of "unfavourable side effects" to be tested on mice and monkeys.

Any drugs that passed muster would then be used, according to an internal memo, on volunteer US soldiers.

The Family Jewels files do not provide further detail into the numerous mind-control programs, such as MKULTRA, covertly propped up by the agency.

In 1953, MKULTRA was given six per cent of the total CIA budget without any oversight.

Only the tip of a large iceberg had been previously released by the CIA under Freedom of Information Act provisions.

Yesterday's acknowledgments will comfort those who have long campaigned for truth and restitution.

The nature of the experiments, gathered from government documents and testimony in numerous lawsuits brought against the CIA, is shocking, from testing LSD on children to implanting electrodes in victims' brains to deliberately poisoning people with uranium.

"The CIA bought my services from my grandfather in 1952 starting at the tender age of four," wrote Carol Rutz of her experiences.

"Over the next 12 years, I was tested, trained, and used in various ways.

"Electroshock, drugs, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, and other types of trauma were used to make me complain and split my personality (to create multiple personalities for specific tasks).

"Each alter or personality was created to respond to a post-hypnotic trigger, then perform an act and (I would) not remember it later.

"This Manchurian Candidate program was just one of the operational uses of the mind-control scenario by the CIA.

"Your hard-earned tax dollars supported this."

The US began these experiments after World War II when it made a grab for hundreds of Nazi scientists and doctors who had been researching mind control in concentration camps, fearing they would fall into Soviet hands.

US military intelligence leaders were paranoid that they were falling behind the communist bloc in the brain-washing race.

The programs, though carefully hidden, continued into the 1970s - when Helms ordered much of the documentation to be destroyed.

Some conspiratorial theorists believe the CIA completed its goal, initially outlined in the early 1950s, of altering a personality and having someone "perform an action contrary to an individual's basic moral principles".

The attorney for Sirhan Sirhan, Lawrence Teeter, has said his client was programmed to assassinate Robert Kennedy in 1968.

Theodore Kaczynski, the Unabomber, volunteered to take part in CIA mind-control experiments when he was a student at Harvard University in the late 50s.
5  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: World Trade Center Tower 7 on: June 29, 2007, 06:30:39 PM
Video compilation of reports of explosions and suspicious devices in the towers.  About 10 minutes long.

http://infowars.net/articles/june2007/290607Proof.htm

6  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: World Trade Center Tower 7 on: June 29, 2007, 06:12:26 PM
I'm rather bored with this pissing match between you and me GM.  You asked me to give you explanations in my own words which I informally did in the last post.  We disagree on so much.  That is fine with me.

But I will defend a few things that I mentioned.  I don't care to discuss them further with you.  But if anyone else has something to offer for or against my position I will gladly respond.

The KKK was founded in the early 1830's by one of the Rothschilds.  At the time it was called The Knights of the Golden Circle which John Wilkes Boothe was a member.  The KGC later became the KKK.  You may be right that Albert Pike was not a founder.  But he is listed as Chief Judicial Officer in 1905.  His statue can be found in D.C.  He said this in 1871.

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam and political Zionism  mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

As for Bush saying the Constitution is just a 'goddamned piece of paper' it can be found here.  http://www.comlinks.com/polintel/pi051214.htm The original report was from Capital Hill Blue if you have the desire to read the article.

Detention Centers.....http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/04/national/04halliburton.html?ex=1296709200&en=01728da2eba059e4&ei=5088&partner=rssn
and for locations of FEMA camps....http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm Not sure if that is the best source or not but your own research will lead you to the same conclusion.

FBI had names of hijackers within hours.....September 11, 2001: Existing Files on Hijackers Enables Investigation to Start Within Hours of Attacks  http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a091101quickstart#a091101quickstart 

One day after 9/11, the New York Times will report that FBI agents in Florida investigating the hijackers quickly “descended on flight schools, neighborhoods and restaurants in pursuit of leads.” At one flight school, “students said investigators were there within hours of Tuesday’s attacks.” [New York Times, 9/13/2001] Also on September 12, the Times will report, “Authorities said they had also identified accomplices in several cities who had helped plan and execute Tuesday’s attacks. Officials said they knew who these people were and important biographical details about many of them. They prepared biographies of each identified member of the hijack teams, and began tracing the recent movements of the men.” [New York Times, 9/13/2001] In September 2002, 9/11 victim’s relative Kristen Breitweiser, testifying before the 9/11 Congressional Inquiry, will cite these news reports and will ask, “How did the FBI know exactly where to go only a few hours after the attacks? How did they know which neighborhoods, which flight schools and which restaurants to investigate so soon in the case?… How are complete biographies of the terrorists, and their accomplices, created in such short time? Did our intelligence agencies already have open files on these men? Were they already investigating them? Could the attacks of September 11th been prevented?” [US Congress, 9/18/2002] In at least some cases, it appears that US intelligence did quickly access existing files on the hijackers. The Washington Post reports, “In the hours after Tuesday’s bombings, investigators searched their files on [Satam] Al Suqami and [Ahmed] Alghamdi, noted the pair’s ties to [Nabil] al-Marabh and launched a hunt for him.” A top Customs official claims that by checking flight manifests and comparing them with other information such as watch lists, he is able to determine the names of all 19 hijackers by 11:00 a.m.(see (11:00 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [Washington Post, 9/21/2001]

The NTSB investigates airline crashes.  My mistake, NOT the TSA or FAA.  Like I said it was my own words and I wrote that rant offline in an informal fashion.  But here it is from the NTSB regarding Flight 93. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20020123X00106&key=1

"The Safety Board did not determine the probable cause and does not plan to issue a report or open a public docket. The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The Safety Board provided requested technical assistance to the FBI, and any material generated by the NTSB is under the control of the FBI."

Cellphones on airplanes.....http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/2004-07-19-aircells_x.htm Why would they be developing the technology if cell phones already work inflight?

And also this test after 9-11 on cell phones in the sky http://physics911.net/projectachilles

Mercenaries/Armed 'contractors' in Iraq.....  Where did I get 120,000?  Some reports say as many as 25,000 armed private security.  http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=118599&ran=167294&tref=po but what I read recently, possibly in a magazine, there are 30,000 front line armed contractors with 90,000 support/logistics for the armed security in Iraq.

There are no official reports on the amount of 'contractors' in Iraq or the amount of deaths of 'contractors'.  Blackwater keeps that secret.  I have problems with using Blackwater secuirty.  They have less accountablility than the military.  Blackwater hides behind the corporate veil so to speak.

As for the BP's that went to jail for shooting the DHS informant drug smuggler......If you follow worldnetdaily.com they reported multiple times about the prosecutors doctoring evidence for a conviction.  One article.  http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54823 But there are multiple cases of BP's going to jail for doing their jobs.  Once again Jerome Corsi really does his homework.

****Ever read legislation? Very few legislators ever do, they have employees who do that. The size and complexity of modern legislation is overwhelming. In the crisis post-9/11 are you surprised the patriot act was passed? BTW, I think it was good legislation.****

Yes I have read legislation.  And you made my point exactly.  Modern legislation is overwhelming.  And I think the Patriot Act is anything but patriotic.  Similar to the enabling act that Hitler issued after the Richtstag fire.

If only a lawyer can understand the law, then only lawyers should have to follow it.
7  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: World Trade Center Tower 7 on: June 26, 2007, 02:00:57 PM
The Purdue Study is not an independent investigation but was funded by the NSF or National Science Foundation which is a governmental organization that recently was granted an increase which doubled their annual budget to $6 billion.

The head of the NSF is Arden L. Bement, Jr. who worked for the DoD and on DARPA programs.

The director of the Purdue study is Mete A. Sozen, Ph.D., S.E. who served on the ASCE team that studied the OKC bombing.

**The burden of proof is on you. You're making the assertion. So, again, what happened on 9/11? It's a simple question.** 

Sure GM, it may be a simple question but would require a complicated answer.  And then of course you would want sources (and rightly so) for every detail, which would be exhaustive.  It is far more constructive for me to simply point out inconsistencies and lies within the official version.  I think your mind is made up in either case.  That doesn’t bother me at all.

It seems like you are taking this a little too personally.  ** Let me guess, you're just much smarter than us.....**  This gave me flashbacks of fighting on a preschool playground!! 

I’m not saying there aren’t jihadists.  Of course there is, but jihadists are not the real danger.  Funny how the Patriot Act was rushed through Congress without any legislators reading the bill.  Strange how PNAC called for a catalyzing event like a “New Pearl Harbor” in 2000 to propel our military into the 21st century and was signed by neo-cons like Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz.  .  Mohammed Atta’s passport fly’s unscathed through the burning wreckage and onto the streets of New York to be immediately identified as one of the hijackers.  The FBI already had names of hijackers within hours of the crash even though they were not listed on the flight manifests.  The government refuses to issue any meaningful video footage of the Pentagon crash.  The wreckage of Flight 93 being reduced to nothing larger than pieces the size of phonebooks spread out over 5 miles and no identifiable body parts yet they tell us it collided with the ground.  (BTW the wreckage of Flight 93 is being stored in a vault underground at Iron Mountain rather than being reconstructed by the hands of the FAA or TSA which is SOP for an airplane accident) Three Skyscrapers falling to the ground at free fall speed (no resistance by the lower floors or the 47 steel columns) in one day in which one of the towers was not hit by a plane.  Never in the history of steel skyscrapers has this happened.  Our leaders telling us that they never conceived of such an attack even though there is ample proof otherwise.  How much evidence does one need to smell a cover-up?  First they told us the passengers of Flight 93 were communicating via cell phone.  When it was shown that cell phones do not normally work at those altitudes and at that speed, the government recanted their statement and said that onboard airphones, not cell phones, were being used even though one of the calls they say came from the bathroom.  First Larry Silverstein says “pull it, and we watched the tower collapse” and later issues a statement that he meant pull the firefighters out of the building even though there were no firefighters in the building before the collapse.  Who refers to firefighters as ‘it’ anyways?  Even John Kerry was confused whether WTC7 was taken down by controlled demolition as shown in the link above.

I’m not saying anyone is smarter than anyone else, but we have got to pay attention to what is going on!!  How many times would you let your girlfriend or wife lie to you before you stopped believing anything she said?  This government lies to us all the time and is shrouded in secrecy.  Have we lost our nerves as a free people?  After all the deceit, scandal, and corruption from D.C., do we still just turn our backs and trust our all-mighty government, controlled by career politicians and corporate lobbyists to take care of us?  Whenever they take a freedom away, we never get it back!!  The Bill of Rights has been shredded, the Constitution according to Bush is just a “goddamned piece of paper.”  The so-called conservative Bush administration is spending money like a drunken sailor yet Congress is supposed to control our budget.  Not only is our southern border wide open but we prosecute Border Patrol Agents and throw them in prison for 12 years when they were just doing their job!!  We have become completely dependant on cheap Chinese trinkets built by slave labor yet we are told it is a free market.  Detention centers are being built all over the country just waiting for some disaster to fill them up.  We are using mercenaries like BlackWater (oil) security and calling them contractors.  Currently we have 120,000 BlackWater ‘contractors’ in Iraq.  We pay ‘contractors’ 6 times the amount a soldier receives and when a soldier comes home wounded, our Veterans Hospitals are not equipped nor receive the proper funding to handle them.  This country is being destroyed on purpose in the name of globalization.  Our infrastructure paid by tax dollars is being sold to private foreign industries.  Our National Parks are being held as collateral for our debt under the UN as ‘World Heritage Sites.’  Yet as soon as someone says New World Order, everyone gasps and denies that such a thing exists, even though it says Norvo Ordo Seclorum on the back of our dollar bill!!!  But it could never happen to us in America!!!  It is happening right now and no one seems to notice.  We were built on self reliance and individualism yet over 53% of this population is receiving a government paycheck whether through labor or welfare.  And who would ever bite the hand that feeds them?  Our currency is no longer respected around the world and frankly neither is this country.  This is no accident, it is not just a few mistakes or bad decision making, it is not liberalism or conservativism, it is the deliberate destruction of America from the inside.

You want to know what happened on 9-11?  It was the beginning of WWIII.  WWI they gave us the League of Nations, WWII they gave us the UN, WWIII they will give us a global government whether you like it or not.

Albert Pike was a Confederate General during the Civil War.  He was also the founder of the KKK yet he is the only Confederate General to have his statue in Washington D.C.  He said in 1870 that it would require three world wars in order to create a one world government.  The third war should be a religious war consisting of Christians and Jews fighting against Muslims.  People will become so sick of monotheistic religion that they will allow government to become their god.

Conspiracy or Coincidence?  If you believe it is just coincidence, we will continue on a path toward internal suicide under the guise of democracy with no accountability rather than a constitutional republic as was originally intended by our founding fathers.
8  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: World Trade Center Tower 7 on: June 22, 2007, 12:20:43 PM
Problems with the Purdue University Study.

1.  The study says nothing about WTC7 which was never hit by a plane yet fell in 6.5 seconds on its own footprint in what looks like a controlled demolition.
2.  It does not address the molten metal found in the wreckage weeks after 9-11 even though airplane fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel.
3.  The simulation does not address the crash of the South Tower which was hit at an angle and most of the jet fuel exploded outside the buiilding.
4.  The architechs of the building said it could withstand a plane impact where all the jet fuel would stay on the inside of the building.  According to the architechs, the buildings should never have fallen.  http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=1687698&date=19930227
5.  The NIST report states that only one column was severed by the impact yet Purdue states that several columns were severed.
6.  NIST states that airplane debris created a shotgun blast to dislodge the fireproofing material, Purdue states that the jet fuel did it.
7.  NIST states that AA11 did not have fuel in the center fuselage, Purdue's simulation shows fuel in the fuselage.
8.  If the fire was so hot as to melt steel, why can people be seen standing in the impact holes waving for help?  Niether their clothes or hair are burned.  http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/january2005/170105woman.jpg

The Purdue Simulation contradicts the official story which should only raise more questions.

Ron Paul asked about 9-11 http://www.911blogger.com/node/9447
9  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: World Trade Center Tower 7 on: June 22, 2007, 12:03:19 PM
It is you GM that doesn't know the difference between belief and fact!  I don't think you have ever done any research into 9-11.  You have taken the fiction of the official story and made it your belief without ever checking the facts.  And instead of doing any research, all you do is make condescending remarks. 

I have offered examples from mainstream press reports (not just "truther" websites) that are inconsistant with the official story.  You have offered NOTHING to refute any of it.  Until you do, you are nothing but a waste of my time.
10  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: World Trade Center Tower 7 on: June 21, 2007, 02:04:39 PM
DAY OF INFAMY 2001
Did Osama charter flight out of U.S. after 9/11?
FBI says jets took Saudis home following terrorism
Posted: June 20, 2007
7:10 p.m. Eastern


© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com



"The document states: 'ON 9/19/01, A 727 PLANE LEFT LAX, RYAN FLT #441 TO ORLANDO, FL W/ETA (estimated time of arrival) OF 4-5PM. THE PLANE WAS CHARTERED EITHER BY THE SAUDI ARABIAN ROYAL FAMILY OR OSAMA BIN LADEN…THE LA FBI SEARCHED THE PLANE [REDACTED] LUGGAGE, OF WHICH NOTHING UNUSUAL WAS FOUND,'" the Judicial Watch report said.

That flight made four stops to pick up passengers before being allowed to leave the United States en route to Paris, the FBI documents reveal. It was among six such flights where the FBI briefly interviewed some passengers and inspected some luggage, the report said. Flights collected passengers or made stops in California, Texas and Florida, among several other places.

"The Saudis had at least two other planes on call. Starting in Los Angeles on an undetermined date, one of them flew first to Orlando, Florida, where Khalil bin Laden boarded. From Orlando, the plane continued to Dulles International Airport, outside Washington, D.C., before going on to Boston's Logan International Airport on September 19, picking up members of the bin Laden family along the way," another excerpt confirmed.

"Eight days after the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history, Osama bin Laden possibly charters a flight to whisk his family out of the country, and it's not worth more than a luggage search and a few brief interviews?" asked Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. "Clearly these documents prove the FBI conducted a slapdash investigation of these Saudi flights. We'll never know how many investigative leads were lost due to the FBI's lack of diligence."

A spokesman for the FBI, who asked that his name not be used, said the claims were investigated earlier, and found to be without grounds.

"There's no new information," he told WND. "Osama did not charter a flight out of the United States. It was thoroughly investigated. All of this is in the 9/11 commission report."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56289
11  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: World Trade Center Tower 7 on: June 21, 2007, 02:01:49 PM
Hey GM

I don't think for one second that you would accept my beliefs.  Besides, my beliefs are irrelevant when arguing facts.  You have shown an unwillingness to bring up any valid arguments and have contributed nothing to this discussion outside of your 'psycology of conspiracy' articles which may be applicable to a few but certainly not for me.  And your Purdue 3D imaging really says nothing about government cover-up or complacency.

You have chosen to accept the official story about 9-11.  I have not.  Governments by their very nature lie, distort, and cover-up.  Our government is no different.  It can be shown with a few irrefutable examples starting with....

Sinking of the USS Maine and the lie to start the Spanish American War
Foreknowlege of the bombing of Pearl Harbor
Israel's diiberate attack on the USS Liberty
Golf of Tonkin

9-11 happened to start a war.  I think Smedly Butler said it best.

WAR IS A RACKET

by Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient:

Major General Smedley D. Butler, USMC [Retired]

Chapter One

WAR IS A RACKET

WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

In the World War a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows.

How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?

Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few – the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.

And what is this bill?

This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.

For a great many years, as a soldier, I had a suspicion that war was a racket; not until I retired to civil life did I fully realize it. Now that I see the international war clouds gathering, as they are today, I must face it and speak out.

Again they are choosing sides. France and Russia met and agreed to stand side by side. Italy and Austria hurried to make a similar agreement. Poland and Germany cast sheep's eyes at each other, forgetting for the nonce [one unique occasion], their dispute over the Polish Corridor.

The assassination of King Alexander of Jugoslavia [Yugoslavia] complicated matters. Jugoslavia and Hungary, long bitter enemies, were almost at each other's throats. Italy was ready to jump in. But France was waiting. So was Czechoslovakia. All of them are looking ahead to war. Not the people – not those who fight and pay and die – only those who foment wars and remain safely at home to profit.

There are 40,000,000 men under arms in the world today, and our statesmen and diplomats have the temerity to say that war is not in the making.

Hell's bells! Are these 40,000,000 men being trained to be dancers?

Not in Italy, to be sure. Premier Mussolini knows what they are being trained for. He, at least, is frank enough to speak out. Only the other day, Il Duce in "International Conciliation," the publication of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, said:

"And above all, Fascism, the more it considers and observes the future and the development of humanity quite apart from political considerations of the moment, believes neither in the possibility nor the utility of perpetual peace... War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the people who have the courage to meet it."

Undoubtedly Mussolini means exactly what he says. His well-trained army, his great fleet of planes, and even his navy are ready for war – anxious for it, apparently. His recent stand at the side of Hungary in the latter's dispute with Jugoslavia showed that. And the hurried mobilization of his troops on the Austrian border after the assassination of Dollfuss showed it too. There are others in Europe too whose sabre rattling presages war, sooner or later.

Herr Hitler, with his rearming Germany and his constant demands for more and more arms, is an equal if not greater menace to peace. France only recently increased the term of military service for its youth from a year to eighteen months.

Yes, all over, nations are camping in their arms. The mad dogs of Europe are on the loose. In the Orient the maneuvering is more adroit. Back in 1904, when Russia and Japan fought, we kicked out our old friends the Russians and backed Japan. Then our very generous international bankers were financing Japan. Now the trend is to poison us against the Japanese. What does the "open door" policy to China mean to us? Our trade with China is about $90,000,000 a year. Or the Philippine Islands? We have spent about $600,000,000 in the Philippines in thirty-five years and we (our bankers and industrialists and speculators) have private investments there of less than $200,000,000.

Then, to save that China trade of about $90,000,000, or to protect these private investments of less than $200,000,000 in the Philippines, we would be all stirred up to hate Japan and go to war – a war that might well cost us tens of billions of dollars, hundreds of thousands of lives of Americans, and many more hundreds of thousands of physically maimed and mentally unbalanced men.

Of course, for this loss, there would be a compensating profit – fortunes would be made. Millions and billions of dollars would be piled up. By a few. Munitions makers. Bankers. Ship builders. Manufacturers. Meat packers. Speculators. They would fare well.

Yes, they are getting ready for another war. Why shouldn't they? It pays high dividends.

But what does it profit the men who are killed? What does it profit their mothers and sisters, their wives and their sweethearts? What does it profit their children?

What does it profit anyone except the very few to whom war means huge profits?

Yes, and what does it profit the nation?

Take our own case. Until 1898 we didn't own a bit of territory outside the mainland of North America. At that time our national debt was a little more than $1,000,000,000. Then we became "internationally minded." We forgot, or shunted aside, the advice of the Father of our country. We forgot George Washington's warning about "entangling alliances." We went to war. We acquired outside territory. At the end of the World War period, as a direct result of our fiddling in international affairs, our national debt had jumped to over $25,000,000,000. Our total favorable trade balance during the twenty-five-year period was about $24,000,000,000. Therefore, on a purely bookkeeping basis, we ran a little behind year for year, and that foreign trade might well have been ours without the wars.

It would have been far cheaper (not to say safer) for the average American who pays the bills to stay out of foreign entanglements. For a very few this racket, like bootlegging and other underworld rackets, brings fancy profits, but the cost of operations is always transferred to the people – who do not profit.
12  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: World Trade Center Tower 7 on: June 20, 2007, 05:05:08 PM
The difference between the train robbery story and 9-11 is that in this case there are clues, evidence, theories, and suspects.

Actually, many people in prominent positions both military, government and civilian have questioned the official story of 9-11 suggesting a cover-up. Here is a list of those who have spoken and what they believe.  http://patriotsquestion911.com/

There are several examples of investigators being blocked from doing their jobs.  Operation Able Danger was just one example.  Many people testified before the 9-11 commission report yet their testimony was not included in the report. 

Immediately after 9-11 Bush, Rice, and Rumsfled expressed their utter surprise that jets could be used as weapons.  They told us that they had never heard of such a thing.  Yet the Japanese clearly did it in WWII, Operation Bojanko was uncovered in 1995 and in addition NORAD ran drills about using jets as weapons pre-911.  http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm 

On the evening before 9-11, FEMA was already in place at New York ready to respond.  Why?  Because on the morning of 9-11, drills were being conducted involving hijacked planes.  http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2004/080904wargamescover.htm This caused confusion for the people 'on the ground' and also it was used as a cover story for not having our proper defensive measures activated.

And this headline by the AP…  ‘Agency planned exercise on Sept. 11 built around a plane crashing into a building’

By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, one U.S. intelligence agency was planning an exercise last Sept. 11 in which an errant aircraft would crash into one of its buildings. But the cause wasn’t terrorism — it was to be a simulated accident.  http://freepressinternational.com/agency-planned-exercise-on-sept-11-built-around-a-plane-crashing-into-a-building
Cynthia McKinney (yeah, I know) questions Rumsfeld about these drills.  Watch Rumsfeld squirm a little too much.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvLL--vSsA

And Operation Northwoods from the 1960's made it very clear that our own government would hijack our own planes and blame it on the Cubans to start a war. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662

Hijackers turn up alive..... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1567815.stm ....yet they are still on the FBI wanted list with their pictures?  Shouldn’t the FBI update their wanted posters?

The 911 Commission Report completely ignores the money trail.  From WorldNetDaily.com dated Jan 30, 2002 entitled ‘Did ally Pakistan play role in 9-11?’

According to accounts in both The Times of India and India Today, former ISI spy chief Lt. Gen. Mahmud Ahmad instructed Sheikh to send the $100,000 to Atta.

"A direct link between the ISI and the WTC attack could have enormous repercussions," the Times article said. "The U.S. cannot but suspect whether there were other senior Pakistani Army commanders who were in the know of things."

And from The New York Post "With CIA backing and the funnelling of massive amounts of U.S. military aid, the ISI developed [since the early 1980s] into a parallel structure wielding enormous power over all aspects of government....The ISI had a staff composed of military and intelligence officers, bureaucrats, undercover agents and informers estimated at 150,000."  http://www.dc911truth.org/index.php?p=evidence1c

The Pakistani ISI and CIA seem to be interconnected yet the Pakistani ISI chief  was involved in providing the funds for .Mohammed Atta.  This same chief visited the White House the week prior to 9-11.

And we also have the immediate removal of evidence from the crime scene. “In calling for a new investigation, some structural engineers have said that one serious mistake has already been made in the chaotic aftermath of the collapses: the decision to rapidly recycle the steel columns, beams, and trusses that held up the buildings. That may have cost investigators some of their most direct physical evidence with which to try to piece together an answer.”   http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B00E0DA1531F936A15751C1A9679C8B63

Also Rueters reported on an unexplained surge of financial transactions just before 9-11.  http://snapshot.jkn.com/762799.598012991751
13  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: World Trade Center Tower 7 on: June 12, 2007, 01:11:29 PM
The above top secret site attempts to prove that a 757 hit the Pentagon.  Whether or not a plane or missile or a Global Hawk hit the pentagon is irrelevant when arguing if there was government complacency or conspiracy in 9-11.

The Abovetopsecret.com thread failed to address these issues.
There are no skid marks on lawn of Pentagon before impact which indicates extremely talented flying.  http://killtown.911review.org/images/flight77/lawn/lawn.jpg
Hani Hanjour was the pilot of Flight 77.  http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hanjour.html
Odd coincidence, 5 Raytheon high level employees died on the four planes on 9-11 (Raytheon developed the Global Hawk unmanned aircraft.) http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread142784/pg1
CNN reporting that there is no evidence of a plane crash at Pentagon http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/Cnn%5B1%5D.Pentagon.Jamie.Mcintyre.swf
Does Rumsfeld admit a missile hit Pentagon?  “They [find a lot] and any number of terrorist efforts have been dissuaded, deterred or stopped by good intelligence gathering and good preventive work. It is a truth that a terrorist can attack any time, any place, using any technique and it's physically impossible to defend at every time and every place against every conceivable technique. Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center. The only way to deal with this problem is by taking the battle to the terrorists, wherever they are, and dealing with them.”  http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?TranscriptID=3845
Other example of plane hitting light poles

It will take some time to sort through the www.debunking911.com site.  Lots of information which I plan to read thoroughly.  But one thing I noticed was missing from the so-called clearing house of 9-11.

Why wasn’t NORAD activated?  http://www.norad.mil/Home.html NORAD is the North American Aerospace Defense Command created to protect the Canadian and American skies from invasion.  In 2000, NORAD was activated 67 times.  http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/14/attack/main518632.shtml On 9-11 after 1 hour and 20 minutes, when the Pentagon was attacked, NORAD was still 150 miles from Washington DC.  They are supposed to be airborne within 10 minutes of a problem. Why was there response time so slow?  There are many arguments for both sides.

Two of the videos linked by Crafty caught my attention.  The rest of them simply seemed to be footage of the destruction of the Towers and offers no evidence for or against a conspiracy.
1.   The rare video footage taken by amateurs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fH7c8H6SNw At 5m15s, a firefighter says “it was like there were detonators planted (or planned) to take down the building.” 
2.   The video of Flight 93 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZekosYOmXc where the debris is said to be no bigger than a phone book and spread out over 4 miles.  The crater in the ground being 20 feet wide and 15 feet deep….. Never before has a plane completely obliterated from an impact crash into the ground.  In ALL cases in the past, there were identifiable body parts and large plane sections.  This would indicate to me that the plane blew up in the sky rather than impacted the ground.  In addition, the wreckage of Flight 93 is protected inside Iron Mountain rather than in the hands of the TSA or FAA.  Never before has a plane crash been so protected. 
(Of interest, according to CNN http://edition.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/09/11/ar911.king.cheney/ Cheney gave the shoot down order of Flight 93?)

Cold War Scout, “It's not a theory.  It's utter, pure, Rosie O'Donnell/Michael Moore, et al drivel.  What frightens me most is that they would be somebody's primary source of credible information.”  I despise Michael Moore, I did not see his Fahrenheit 9-11 movie.  As far as I know, the only claim Moore made about what happened on 9-11 is that Bush is dumb. Michael Moore has nothing to contribute to this topic.  And Rosie O’Donnell likely has done more damage than good.  I would question her motives.  To imply that this is my primary source of credible information is about as pathetic as GM’s comment on UFOs.

I’m not sure, GM, what the moon landing, JFK assassination, or chemtrails, have to do with 9-11.  It only goes to show how certain people have been ‘conditioned’ to associate the words ‘conspiracy theory’ with any event that comes into question.  I assume at this point you are going to ask me if I think Elvis is still alive.  After getting through all the condescending nonsense on your post, I found something of value.  The Popular Mechanics article was written by Michael Chertoff’s cousin (Benjamin Chertoff) and has since been refuted by Ray Griffin in his book http://www.amazon.com/Debunking-11-Mechanics-Defenders-Conspiracy/dp/156656686X and this lecture http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6837001821567284154&q=ray+griffin

Now, if an F-4 crashes into a concrete wall and completely vanishes without going through the wall as shown in the video mentioned http://video.google.com/url?docid=-292785546290237697&esrc=sr2&ev=v&q=f+4+phantom+crash&vidurl=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D--_RGM4Abv8&usg=AL29H2207g-8iI5CDmdIyNmMfGiPGYEf_w  Here is an excellent response to the F-4 comparison. http://www.fwweekly.com/content.asp?article=6022

As for explosives in the towers, there are many theories surrounding that.  No one has a definitive answer nor is it relevant in looking at the overall picture of government involvement in 9-11.  But there are eyewitness reports inside the building of seeing explosives including an explosion that happened in the basement of WTC http://911proof.com/11.html   But the big questions are when and how were explosives planted in the building?  I have no idea.   I realize that laying explosives inside a building of that size would take months and months, but there was opportunity.  http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/THO404A.html Pure conjecture on my part, but couldn’t a building be wired with explosives using wireless technology thereby eliminating any need for exposed wires?  In addition, Marvin Bush was involved in WTC security.  http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0204-06.htm  But I would like to explore this further……..

GM, you mentioned that you are a trained criminal investigator.  It seems to me that you refuse to look at any evidence short of a confession.  And rather than argue any of the points about World Trade Center 7, you continue to whitewash the subject by interjecting your idiotic, sarcastic, psychology articles.  It is leading me to believe you have little knowledge whatsoever on this subject.


14  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Geo Political matters on: June 08, 2007, 06:38:53 PM
The article from Newsweek was dated in 1991.  Fair enough.  But in 1991, most of the information on this topic involving the Reagan administration was 'classified' and not available for investigation, it should have been released 12 years after Reagan left office, but Bush has blocked the release of these papers.

But how can this case be closed when 68,000 pages of information (obviously not all are pertenant to Iran-Hostage Crisis) were withheld from The House Investigators? http://www.russbaker.com/The%20Nation%20-%20Why%20are%20they%20hiding.htm

Bush issued Executive Order 13292 to withhold Reagan papers from the public.  http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030325-11.html
and the Washington Post analysis... http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A20731-2001Oct31?language=printer

LOST HISTORY REVISITED:
The Bushes & the Truth About Iran
September 21, 2006
by ROBERT PARRY

Secret Republican & CIA contacts with Iran’s Islamic regime more than a quarter century ago are relevant today because an underlying theme in the current President Bush’s rationale for war is that direct negotiations with Iran are pointless. But Bush’s own father may know otherwise.

The rest of the article here http://baltimorechronicle.com/2006/092106PARRY.html
15  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Geo Political matters on: June 07, 2007, 03:47:37 PM
Gary Sick was an Iranian expert in the Carter Administration and single handedly investigated the 'October Surprise' and wrote a book entitled, "October Surprise: America's Hostages in Iran and the Election of Ronald Reagan."  That is what sparked the controversy.  Personally, I believe that his allegations are true upon looking at the evidence.  There is plenty of book reviews and commentary on his findings if you so desire to look into it.

I do not consider Wikipedia as a trusting source, I was only using it as an intro into the topic.

I was not implying that Bush was personally involved in gay sex or drug use, but Bohemian Grove is a club where that type of activity is rambid.  But I was suggesting that Bush participates in the Satanic Rituals.  In fact Bush Sr. has been quoted joking that if Bush Jr. did not behave, then he would sacrifice him to Molech (the 40 foot owl god at the grove.)  Watch the videos.....It should bother most people.  Also, on the cover of SKY magazine, Henry Kissinger is

Would you let someone who participates in this sort of activity babysit your kids, let alone lead a Country?

I was not suggesting that Kerry threw the election so Bush could win.  I am explaining that no matter who wins the election, Skull and Bones has their man in office.  Only 15 men are tapped each year.  Most of these men become quite powerful. 

A red flag should not be raised because world leaders are talking, a red flag, for members in a democratic society, should be raised when world leaders (including our own) are talking in SECRECY with limited press coverage.  Paris Hilton gets 10,000+ articles while Bilderberg gets 200 this past week.  http://www.infowars.com/articles/nwo/bilderberg_cowardly_corporate_media_hides_bilderberg.htmY

**Yes, it's too far-fetched, and it reminds me of the cheap argument that Bush and Cheney would rather enrich a fews friends they worked with for a few years than do their very best for the American people.  I just don't equate making mistakes or choosing policies different than I would choose with having bad motives and the wrong interests in mind.**

We will fundamentally disagree on your above statement.



16  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Islam in Islamic Countries: on: June 06, 2007, 03:26:35 PM
Dateline runs a story about Jews living harmoniously in Iran.

Part 1    http://www.youtube.com/v/VCBDZfjmPAw
Part 2    http://www.youtube.com/v/a60pRSZshF

I don't see any yellow badges on the Jews like our trusting media told us they would have to wear....
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3252934,00.html
17  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Geo Political matters on: June 06, 2007, 03:06:22 PM
GM, Nothing more to say about the time I spent answering your questions then to refer to 'The Protocals of the Elders of Zion?'

The Protocals are a playbook for any group to control a population, not just Jews.

I cannot understand how people are so resistant to believing that there are people who will do whatever means possible to take control of the populations and resources of the world.

"We are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covet means for expanding its sphere of influence; on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free
choice, on guerillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which as conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly-knit highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific, and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed." JFK

"Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order . Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond,  whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government." Dr. Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference, Evians, France, 1991

"Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it." Woodrow Wilson

"We shall have World Government, whether or not we like it. The only question is whether
World Government will be achieved by conquest or consent." -- Statement made before the
United States Senate on Feb. 7, 1950 by James Paul Warburg

"The real rulers in Washington are invisible and exercise their power from behind the
scenes." Justice Felix Frankfurter, U.S. Supreme Court

Are we so conditioned to resist 'conspiracy theory' that they can tell us right to our faces yet we still do not listen?

18  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Geo Political matters on: June 05, 2007, 01:02:52 PM
Foreign News Media reports on the Bilderberg Group meeting in Turkey this past weekend.

http://www.youtube.com/p.swf?video_id=Qcjk0_wj7Do&eurl=&iurl=http%3A//img.youtube.com/vi/Qcjk0_wj7Do/2.jpg&t=OEgsToPDskKa1ZiY_xtezI6mymIfebM0
19  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / October Surprise on: June 04, 2007, 11:09:32 AM
Thank you for the pointing out my error. DougMacG.

Let me clarify.....Try this link to the Iranian Hostage Crisis October Surprise.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_surprise_conspiracy

"Jimmy Carter had been attempting to deal with the Iran hostage crisis and the hostile regime of the Ayatollah Khomeini for nearly a year. Those who assert that a deal was made allege that certain Republicans with CIA connections, including George H. W. Bush, arranged to have the hostages held through October, until Reagan could defeat Carter in early November, and then be released, thereby preventing an “October surprise” from the Carter administration in which the hostages would be released shortly before the election. The hostages were released the day of Reagan's inauguration, twenty minutes after his inaugural address."

And I appalogise, Karl Rove was NOT involved in the Iran Hostage Crisis, there was an article from Sept 2006 where Rove promised an October Surprise.  I should not have mentioned him at all.  http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/9/20/141615.shtml



20  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Geo Political matters on: June 04, 2007, 10:47:36 AM
Glad you asked those questions....

I will get back to you on the Koran and Ahmadinejad....I am not a theological authority.  I was simply placing my personal views on the table for discussion. But I do know that Ahmadinejad has been misquoted and mistranslated many times.  http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14733.htm

In addition, common sense is all I need to realize Ahmadinejad is not a true Muslim.  Good Muslims and Christians can live in peace all over the world.  It is the derainged narcissistic leadership that misguides.  Not for religious purposes but for personal reasons.  Bin Laden himself said that attacking innocent woman and children is forbidden by the Koran.  Of course, I dispise Bin Laden as well, but apparently he is more of an authority on Islam than I.  Sorry for this crude example but is a Catholic Priest who rapes an alterboy a true Christian?  I would say definately not.  So I can apply the same reason to our world leaders today.

1.  President Bush participates in Satanic rituals at a place called the Bohemian Grove.  Every year in July a group of all-male prominent business, political, media types meet for two weeks to conduct global policies, take drugs, dress like woman, and have sex among other things. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_PAqT2JZOw and http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1038800910961311325&q=bohemian+grove+martial+law+9-11

2.  There are many 3rd parties which pull 'conspiratorial strings in the shadows.'  One group met in Turkey this past weekend.  The Bilderberg Group has been conducting business in secrecy for over 50 years!!!  http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55917

Some other groups besides the now exposed Trilateral Commission and Council on Foreign Relations would include the Club of Rome and the Committee of 300.  Shouldn't it be a red flag when some of the most powerful people meet and there is no media converage?  We are too busy learning about Paris Hilton's sex tape and who is the father of Anna Nicole's daughter.

In addtion, shouldn't it be a HUGE red flag when both Bush and Kerry are members of Skull and Bones and ran against eachother in 2004?  Shouldn't that suggest that no matter who won the election, Skull and Bones definately wins?  Is it too far fetched to consider that our President has more allegiance to a secret society such as Skull and Bones than to the American people? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pUogbYkoHc

3.  "Don't problems, including wars have their own causes that don't require a dark conspiracy?"  Of course they do.  JFK explained this phenomenom, “When written in Chinese, the word "crisis" is composed of two characters-one represents danger, and the other represents opportunity.”

There are bankers and defense contractors who become extremely rich from war both in power and resources.  Just google in 'Ford IBM WWII' and you can learn so much about corporations taking advantage of war.

Examples of corporations, politicians, elitists and 3rd parties profiteering from crisis is endless.  

NEW YORK (Fortune) - The prospect of a bird flu outbreak may be panicking people around the globe, but it's proving to be very good news for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other politically connected investors in Gilead Sciences, the California biotech company that owns the rights to Tamiflu, the influenza remedy that's now the most-sought after drug in the world.  http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/31/news/newsmakers/fortune_rumsfeld/

Some elitists that are worth mentioning who protect their bloodlines are:
Astor
Li
Rosthchild
Rockefeller
Warburg
Russell
Stewart

If you think 'conspiracy' is not possible then learn about Jeckyll Island and the formation of the Federal Reserve.  http://shop.wnd.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=1882

I could go on and on and on but not one person will be convinced unless they do their own research.

I hope I answered your questions G M and thank you for taking an interest.
21  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Homeland Security on: June 04, 2007, 09:20:26 AM
Excellent idea Richard Clark....'Verifiable biometric identification systems.'  HAH!  Lets give government even more control over our lives!  Lets put all of our personal, finacial, medical, and legal information into one database and then hand the government the keys.  I'll feel REAL secure then.

And if you haven't read about the EEVS program....  http://www.newswithviews.com/Levant/nancy90.htm 

If you ask someone what the most dishonest profession is, they usually say lawyers or politicians, yet we hand them control over our lives everyday trusting they will take care of us.  Have Americans become so weak?

A new movie about our borders is coming out soon.  www.bordermovie.com to watch the trailer.

If a group of 'vigilantes' like the Minutemen can plug up holes in our borders armed only with radios, flashlights, and binoculars, why can't our almighty DHS do the same?  Because they don't want to secure our borders.  They only want to increase the problems, so our government can offer us solutions which do nothing more than limit our individual soveriegnty.
22  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Hegelian Dialectic on: June 04, 2007, 12:07:07 AM
I read both the Bible and the Koran.  Almedimejad is as much a Muslim as George Bush is a Christian.  Neither are true followers of their religion.  They are pitting one group against the other to bring about global change.  They are both misguiding the public into fighting one another while a third party will benefit from the war.

If you study the same old formula that has been used by the elite over the centuries it seems this coming WWIII is nothing more than a manufactured war to make people so sick of monotheist religion that people turn to atheism.  Once people give up religion, then the State can become their religion.  Or if Al Gore has his way, we will all turn to Gaia worship.

The Hegelian Dialectic can be summed up like this......A problem is started, the public responds with a reaction (fear in the case of terror), then a solution is created and the public accepts.  This is known as thesis, antithesis, and synthesis.

This is better explained here.  http://www.calvertonschool.org/waldspurger/pages/hegelian_dialectic.htm

If we are going to look at the struggle between Muslims and Christians in modern times Operation AJAX deserves some attention.    https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol48no2/article10.html  Essentially, Prime Minister Mossadeq nationalized his countries oil reserves.  British Petroleum, with the help of the CIA, conducted black operations of terrorism, killing innocent people and blaming it on Mossadeq.  The people of Iran eventually revolted and the CIA put the Shah in power as a puppet leader.  This is what Ron Paul was referring to during the debates when he mentioned the Iran Hostage Crisis and 9-11 as being 'blowback.'  In other words, it is our foreign policy in the Middle East that has created modern terrorism against American targets.

If you will recall during the Iran Hostage Crisis, Ahmedimjad was one of the captors.  The hostages were released on the 444th day after Regan’s inauguration.  This is known as the 'October Surprise.' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_surprise#1980_Carter_vs._Reagan A deal was supposedly made between the terrorists and the Regan administration (Karl Rove) to NOT release the hostages until after Regan defeated Carter in the election!

We have done business with Ahmedimajad before.  There are a few other connections as well.  For instance, the Aga Khan is a powerful Ishmaeli sect Muslim who receives little to no attention in the media.  He traces his origin to the Prophet through his Catholic wife Fatima.  He has extreme influence in the Muslim world and is intermarried to the British Royal family bloodlines.  The previous Aga Khan went to Harvard.  There are stories of the Aga Khan commanding students to jump off of buildings to their deaths as a show of his influence over others.  Just rumors?  Maybe not.  The Aga Khan is the hereditary leader of the 'Order of the Assassins.'

During the 11th century, Hassan Ben Sabbah was an Ismaeli Muslim who would drug and kidnap young men and take them to his palace in the desert.  When the boys would awaken, the palace was a paradise full of drinking, multiple women, anything a man could desire.  He would spend three days in the palace believing he died and went to heaven.  At the end of the three days, Hassan would tell the boy he was being sent back to earth and would have to kill a target in the name of Allah.  Upon completion of his mission, he would spend eternity at the palace with 77 virgins.

The Assassins derived their name from either Hassan Ben Sabbah's name or by the Hashish they would chew on while conducting their operations.  The Assassins dipped their hats into the blood of their victims.  These hats were called Fez Caps.  The same hats as the Shriners wear on their heads.

Hence the creation of the 'Order of the Assassins.'  Quite similar to the suicide bombers in Iraq today.  Suicide bombers are often found with hashish in their mouths.  They are not Muslims, they have been brainwashed into blowing themselves up.  The Aga Khan, as the leader of the Assassins, is supplying the suicide bombers in Iraq via Iran so that America is forced to continue operations in Iraq with no possible way to exit.  All this is going on to fool the public into supporting a war that does not benefit Muslims or Christians, but only benefits the Military-Industrial-Congressional-Media Complex.

Amedimajad and Bush are business partners.
23  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Hegelian Dialectic on: May 31, 2007, 11:30:02 AM
I read both the Bible and the Koran.  Almedimejad is as much a Muslim as George Bush is a Christian.  Neither are true followers of their religion.  They are pitting one group against the other to bring about global change.  They are both misguiding the public into fighting one another while a third party will benefit from the war.

If you study the same old formula that has been used by the elite over the centuries it seems this coming WWIII is nothing more than a manufactured war to make people so sick of monotheist religion that people turn to atheism.  Once people give up religion, then the State can become their religion.  Or if Al Gore has his way, we will all turn to Gaia worship.

The Hegelian Dialectic can be summed up like this......A problem is started, the public responds with a reaction (fear in the case of terror), then a solution is created and the public accepts.  This is known as thesis, antithesis, and synthesis.

This is better explained here.  http://www.calvertonschool.org/waldspurger/pages/hegelian_dialectic.htm

If we are going to look at the struggle between Muslims and Christians in modern times Operation AJAX deserves some attention.    https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol48no2/article10.html  Essentially, Prime Minister Mossadeq nationalized his countries oil reserves.  British Petroleum, with the help of the CIA, conducted black operations of terrorism, killing innocent people and blaming it on Mossadeq.  The people of Iran eventually revolted and the CIA put the Shah in power as a puppet leader.  This is what Ron Paul was referring to during the debates when he mentioned the Iran Hostage Crisis and 9-11 as being 'blowback.'  In other words, it is our foreign policy in the Middle East that has created modern terrorism against American targets.

If you will recall during the Iran Hostage Crisis, Ahmedimjad was one of the captors.  The hostages were released on the 444th day after Regan’s inauguration.  This is known as the 'October Surprise.' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_surprise#1980_Carter_vs._Reagan A deal was supposedly made between the terrorists and the Regan administration (Karl Rove) to NOT release the hostages until after Regan defeated Carter in the election!

We have done business with Ahmedimajad before.  There are a few other connections as well.  For instance, the Aga Khan is a powerful Ishmaeli sect Muslim who receives little to no attention in the media.  He traces his origin to the Prophet through his Catholic wife Fatima.  He has extreme influence in the Muslim world and is intermarried to the British Royal family bloodlines.  The previous Aga Khan went to Harvard.  There are stories of the Aga Khan commanding students to jump off of buildings to their deaths as a show of his influence over others.  Just rumors?  Maybe not.  The Aga Khan is the hereditary leader of the 'Order of the Assassins.'

During the 11th century, Hassan Ben Sabbah was an Ismaeli Muslim who would drug and kidnap young men and take them to his palace in the desert.  When the boys would awaken, the palace was a paradise full of drinking, multiple women, anything a man could desire.  He would spend three days in the palace believing he died and went to heaven.  At the end of the three days, Hassan would tell the boy he was being sent back to earth and would have to kill a target in the name of Allah.  Upon completion of his mission, he would spend eternity at the palace with 77 virgins.

The Assassins derived their name from either Hassan Ben Sabbah's name or by the Hashish they would chew on while conducting their operations.  The Assassins dipped their hats into the blood of their victims.  These hats were called Fez Caps.  The same hats as the Shriners wear on their heads.

Hence the creation of the 'Order of the Assassins.'  Quite similar to the suicide bombers in Iraq today.  Suicide bombers are often found with hashish in their mouths.  They are not Muslims, they have been brainwashed into blowing themselves up.  The Aga Khan, as the leader of the Assassins, is supplying the suicide bombers in Iraq via Iran so that America is forced to continue operations in Iraq with no possible way to exit.  All this is going on to fool the public into supporting a war that does not benefit Muslims or Christians, but only benefits the Military-Industrial-Congressional-Media Complex.

Amedimajad and Bush are business partners.
24  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Emergency detention plan: 'This way to the camps!' on: May 30, 2007, 11:04:44 AM
Emergency detention plan: 'This way to the camps!'
Directive from Bush allows president extraordinary powers in national crisis
Posted: May 30, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern


© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com


Halliburton's former engineering and construction subsidiary has a contingency contract with the Department of Homeland Security to construct detention facilities in the event of a national emergency, according to WND columnist Jerome Corsi.

As Corsi reported last week, President Bush recently signed a little-reported National Security and Homeland Security Directive granting extraordinary powers to the president in the event of a declared national emergency, apparently without congressional approval or oversight.

Houston-based KBR was awarded an initial $385 million contract in January 2006 for one year, with four one-year options extended into 2007. KBR held a previous emergency detention contract with ICE from 2000 to 2005.

ICE spokeswoman Jamie Zuieback told Corsi the primary intent of the contract was to build temporary detention facilities that could be used in the event of a mass migration crisis, but she confirmed the facilities could be employed in national emergencies, including natural disasters.

"The idea of the KBR contract is to support the Army Corp of Engineers in case we experienced a sudden mass immigration and we had to respond quickly," she said. "We would need immediate detention facilities in the form of temporary housing that would enable us to determine if the large numbers of illegal immigrants were political or economically motivated, or if they were criminals or terrorists."

Corsi reported last week the May 9 directive signed by Bush concentrates an unprecedented amount of emergency authority in the office of the president, specifying the chief executive would have the authority to direct "National Essential Functions" of all federal state, local, territorial and tribal governments, as well as private sector organizations in the event of a national emergency.

The directive loosely defines "catastrophic emergency" as "any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy or government functions."

The KBR contingency contract appears to give ICE the ability to have detention facilities constructed under the president's direction in response to a national emergency as declared under the new directive.

ICE's Zuieback said she was not familiar with the directive, and at her request, Corsi e-mailed her the link to the White House's posting of the directive.

The White House has not responded to a request for comment on the story about the directive.
25  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Vietnam POW's left behind. on: May 30, 2007, 11:00:06 AM
Listening to Coast to Coast AM radio show last night, the topic was evidence of Vietnam POW's left behind.....Here is the recap.

The book is called An Enormous Crime http://www.enormouscrime.com/ and according to the authors, Bush Jr. was personally given a copy and said he intends to read it.  These prisoners still have a chance to come home.  What a great way for the Bush administration to regain public acceptance!

Left in Vietnam
Appearing during the first three hours, former NC congressman Bill Hendon and attorney Elizabeth Stewart, the authors of An Enormous Crime, discussed the evidence for a sizable group of American POWs being left behind in Vietnam. Hendon said that after the war, a deal was cut to pay billions to North Vietnam for rebuilding their country and returning the remaining POWs. But as the Watergate scandal broke, Nixon and Kissinger reneged on the arrangement, and around 700 prisoners were kept in Vietnam.

Stewart said she has worked for 20 years in Washington DC to uncover the truth about the POWs, and there has been much intelligence that has referenced the missing soldiers. Specifically, Hendon noted spy satellite photographs, one of which (see below) showed "USA" spelled out in 12 ft. tall letters in a rice field, along with a 24 ft. tall "Walking K" – an "escape and evasion" code only known to US pilots in N. Laos.

Hendon commented that in the early 80's, Reagan tried to get the POWs back, but advisors talked him out of it. By 1992, an investigation chaired by McCain and Kerry concluded there were no American refugees left in Vietnam. Stewart and Hendon believe there could be as many as 500-600 POWs still alive there, and that the US government is engaged in a cover-up of the evidence for their existence.
 
26  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Homeland Security on: May 30, 2007, 10:53:03 AM
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Former Director, CIA
(Operation Mockingbird http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_louise_01_03_03_mockingbird.html)

Reguarding our borders, if the public was aware of the reality and dangers of our limited border security then it would raise awareness about the proposed North American Community http://www.cfr.org/publication/8102/ and the NAFTA Super Highway http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51730.

In addition, drug running is a big business in which the CIA is interconnected.  For just a few examples, we can examine Mena, Arkanasas. Up until recently, the CIA was caught running the biggest single shipment of cocaine in America.  In addition it happened while Bush Sr. (former head of the CIA) was VP and Clinton was Govenor of Arkanasas.  http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id329/pg1/index.html

The mainstream media used to be the watchdog of our government, a fourth check and balance so to speak.  Today, the media and government work hand in hand to further us toward a one world socialized government.  Some would say that corporate/government interconnectedness is called fascism.  The line between socialism and fascism is strangely difficult to distinguish in America.  Maybe a democracy is in the middle of that right and left paradigm.  Weren't we a Republic once before?

Go out and rent 'The Network' from 1977, it offers excellent insite into controlled media.

There are excellent documentaries online showing the government and pentagon involvment in the media including Hollywood movies.  One is 'Enemy Image' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgWS7Ny_S9o (viewed in 9 parts)

and one of many videos on CIA and drugs is

Mike Ruppert - CIA drug running http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7009998324250484369

The movies I have seen on the border are not available online.  'Line in the Sand' and 'The Month of October' but there are others available for free I have not reviewed.

But the reasons are many as to why investigative jouralism is a dying phenomenon.  I believe we the people are the ONLY check and balance in existance.  And we the people must become experts ourselves on issues of importance today and no longer rely on anyone else to provide us with answers.





27  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Homeland Security on: May 29, 2007, 11:23:19 AM
I think defending our borders is of the utmost importance in maintaining a sovereign nation.  After spending a week in AZ with the minuteman project, I realized that our immigration problem is not merely poor immigrants (mainly Mexican) looking to better their lives, but a highly organized human smuggling ring complete with forced labor, sex slavery, and drug smuggling. There are autrocities that the media does not report on.  What stuck in my mind the most were the 'rape trees' where a woman is tied to a tree and gang raped and sometimes murdered afterwards.  Frequently bodies of these women were found scattered in the area after being left in the desert.  The Coyotes would leave trophies of panties and bras of their victims in the trees. 

I cannot and will not take the official story of our 'war on terror' seriously as long as our southern border is wide open. 

DHS spokesman Russ Knocke called the TRAC report "ill-conceived" and said the group "lacked a grasp of the DHS mission."

Knocke said that, by clamping down on all forms of immigration, DHS has made it difficult for terrorists to come to the United States.


Knocke, in my opinion is lying.  Our executives have no intention of regulating our borders or letting our BP agents do their job without fear of legal retaliation.
28  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Group: Terrorism not focus of Homeland Security on: May 29, 2007, 11:02:46 AM
Group: Terrorism not focus of Homeland Security
POSTED: 7:39 p.m. EDT, May 27, 2007

From Scott Bronstein
CNN

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Claims of terrorism represented less than 0.01 percent of charges filed in recent years in immigration courts by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, according to a report issued Sunday by an independent research group.

This comes despite the fact the Bush administration has repeatedly asserted that fighting terrorism is the central mission of DHS.

The Transactional Records Action Clearinghouse said it analyzed millions of previously undisclosed records obtained from the immigration courts under the Freedom of Information Act.

Of the 814,073 people charged by DHS in immigration courts during the past three years, 12 faced charges of terrorism, TRAC said.

Those 12 cases represent 0.0015 percent of the total number of cases filed.

"The DHS claims it is focused on terrorism. Well that's just not true," said David Burnham, a TRAC spokesman. "Either there's no terrorism, or they're terrible at catching them. Either way it's bad for all of us."

The TRAC analysis also found that DHS filed a minuscule number of what are called "national security" charges against people in the immigration courts. The report stated that 114, or 0.014 percent of the total of roughly 800,000 individuals charged were charged with national security violations.

TRAC reported more than 85 percent of the charges involved more common immigration violations such as not having a valid immigrant visa, overstaying a student visa or entering the United States without an inspection.

According to the report by TRAC, which is affiliated with Syracuse University, the results show that there is an "apparent gap between DHS rhetoric about its role in fighting terrorism and what it actually has been doing."

DHS spokesman Russ Knocke called the TRAC report "ill-conceived" and said the group "lacked a grasp of the DHS mission."

Knocke said that, by clamping down on all forms of immigration, DHS has made it difficult for terrorists to come to the United States.
29  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Proposed mex-us-can currency called Amero on: May 15, 2007, 08:43:35 PM
Doug,

Thanks for your comments.  I am against international free trade for multiple reasons.  In the past, our government earned income NOT through a graduated income tax, but through import tariffs.  Labor has been ruled by the Supreme Court to be a man’s most sacred property.  Labor of human beings should never be taxed.  But yes, the right to buy and sell goods and services is a basic economic right.  Unfortunately, that right is becoming more and more regulated.  One example is the increasing control the FDA has taken over holistic medicines and even vitamins.  http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55370

I wholeheartedly agree that the USA is the greatest nation on earth!  But our government is no different than any other government, if left unrestrained it will turn into a monster.  I believe in laissez faire free market business!  One problem…..China and Mexico, in my opinion, do not constitute a free market.  China’s economy is based on slave labor.  Mexico does not have the stringent labor laws that we have, especially in regards to child labor.  And if they do have these labor laws in place, they are certainly not being enforced.  Our economy cannot compete with a slave based economy.

I think globalization is a very accurate label for the direction we have been blindly led (or forced).  I can’t understand how a country’s sovereignty cannot be affected if its economy, via free trade, is merged with another nation.  Globalization (economic or otherwise) is going to be extremely damaging to America!  For instance:
1) Our fuel tax pays for roadways.  Recently in Indiana, the lease of a 70 mile stretch of highway has been purchased by a Spanish company who is now charging a toll.  I think we can all agree that if our tax dollars pay for something, then the government should not generate revenue by leasing it out to a foreign company. http://www.tollroadforsale.com/day1whom.php
2) Within the last year, Bush made a visit to India, he gave away nuclear technology to that country.  http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/review/article_full_story.asp?service_ID=10935  Once again, our tax dollars have been used for the benefit of another country all in the name of globalization.  And let us not forget the fact that just because we are allied with someone today does not mean we will be friendly with them tomorrow.  Iraq and Afghanistan come to mind.  So why do we give our secrets away so freely?
3) NAFTA superhighway.  That thing speaks for itself.  The unintended consequences to our sovereignty will be enormous all in the name of free trade.  Hopefully this project will be shut down.

I do have a fear that our country will no longer exist but in name and symbol.  Global corporations have the potential to become nations unto themselves.  Corporations are nothing but systems given the same power as individuals.    If one examines the rate at which the DOW has inflated, you might easily assume that the 30 companies listed in the DOW are getting larger and larger while the minor companies not listed are being consumed.  The most recent examples would be NEWS CORP owned by Murdoch.  NEWS CORP owns FOX and FOX subsidiaries, Myspace, Harper-Collins Publishing and a host of other companies.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_Corporation#Holdings They have just put in a bid to purchase the DOW!!  http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070501/news_corp_dow_jones.html?.v=1  In addition, within the last few years, our NY stock exchange is being traded on the global market!! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11725095/

So what happens, in a global economy, to a nation in which its debt is purchased by another nation?  China owns a large majority our national debt. http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2006/12/post_1.html Recent figures released show that America is in debt 48 trillion dollars. http://mwhodges.home.att.net/nat-debt/debt-nat-a.htm What has been offered up as collateral for that debt?  Do we have to borrow more money just to pay the interest on the debt?  Do we have the means today or in the future to pay the principle on this debt?  Is this why our ports, roadways, and other infrastructure are being outsourced to foreign countries?  To keep our economy afloat?  There are talks within the UN related to Agenda 21, which would require the US to give its National Parks over as World Heritage Sites. Some already are such as ….. http://whc.unesco.org/en/list Bush is calling for a treaty where the UN will take over our waterways.  http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55671

 So once again, I believe that a nation’s economy and its sovereignty are directly related.  We should be very cautious of any economic mergers or free trade agreements because most likely they are simply precursors to globalization on a grander scale.

Crafty,

You are right; the CFR did not mention replacing the dollar directly.  But I think it is necessary to read between the lines when looking at their documents.  Robert Pastor is the man accused of being the founder of the Amero.  He offers a defense here.  http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1831497/posts?page=1   He states,” With regard to currencies, there is little prospect of a unified currency because all three governments are too committed to the status quo, but this is a good moment to study alternative options. Europe took decades and made many mistakes before they implemented the euro. We ought to learn from those lessons and discuss the issues at some length before considering any proposal.”

Are we just in a conditioning phase?

Time will tell.  But an age old tactic used over and over to bring about change is - Problem, Reaction, Solution.  A problem or crisis is created such as a recession or dollar devaluation.  The appropriate reaction of panic is shown by the general public.  And then a solution is offered, the solution is usually not good for the general public but under fear and misinformation we tend to accept.

Just a side note of interest as well, Many international drug dealers are no longer accepting the US dollar, they only accept the Euro.  I wonder what kind of impact this will have?  http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/10/america/dea.php
30  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Are you prepared for Martial Law on: May 15, 2007, 01:54:39 PM
With the possibility of bio-terror, dirty bombs, bird flu, economic depression, have you prepared for the eventuallity of martial law?

Naomi Wolfe's article entitled 'Fascist America, in 10 easy steps' http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html explains the formula that is used to create a fascist state.  Last autumn, there was a military coup in Thailand. The leaders of the coup took a number of steps, rather systematically, as if they had a shopping list. In a sense, they did. Within a matter of days, democracy had been closed down: the coup leaders declared martial law, sent armed soldiers into residential areas, took over radio and TV stations, issued restrictions on the press, tightened some limits on travel, and took certain activists into custody.

There are a host of executive orders that have been on the books for over thirty years that would place FEMA in charge in the event of a national crisis simply by the stroke of the Presidential pen.  With FEMA's astonishing foul up during Hurricane Katrina, if martial law was to be declared on a grander scale, the chance of receiving immediate aid is quite slim.

Some of the executive orders include:
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990
allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995
allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997
allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998
allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999
allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000
allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001
allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002
designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003
allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004
allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005
allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051
specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310
grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049
assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921
allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA's Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA's role as a "new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis." FEMA's powers were consolidated by President Carter to incorporate the...

National Security Act of 1947
allows for the strategic relocation of industries, services, government and other essential economic activities, and to rationalize the requirements for manpower, resources and production facilities.

1950 Defense Production Act
gives the President sweeping powers over all aspects of the economy.

Act of August 29, 1916
authorizes the Secretary of the Army, in time of war, to take possession of any transportation system for transporting troops, material, or any other purpose related to the emergency.

International Emergency Economic Powers Act
enables the President to seize the property of a foreign country or national. These powers were transferred to FEMA in a sweeping consolidation in 1979

In addition, Halliburton recieved a 10 year contract to construct detention centers across America.  http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=9c2d6a5e75201d7e3936ddc65cdd56a9

The Patriot Act gave the executive branch sweeping unchecked powers, the Military Commissions Act suspended Habeous Corpus for 'enemy combatants' (which is a loose definition including anyone labeled by rumor or heresay) including US citizens, and the John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007 allows the President to take control over a State's National Guard without the Governor's authorization.

A suspension of liberty has been implemented in the past, although some could argue it was necessary, such as disarming Native Americans and restricting them to reservations and placing American-Japanese in internment camps during WWII.  During the past, liberty was restored at the end of the conflict.  The global war on terror is supposed to last for generations.  In the event of a martial law situation or detention of 'enemy combatants' Will it be generations before these liberties are restored?  Would America ever return to its previous state?

What preparations, if any, have you taken to sustain yourself and family in the event that martial law is declared?

If you haven't familiarized yourself with REX-84, now would be a good time to do so. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84
REX-84 was originally created in the event of racial tension.  I think that it is still a possiblity.  Consider...the recent rants by Michael Richards, Don Imus, OJ Simpson's rediculous book idea, MS-13 gangs, the influx of illegal immigrants (Mexicans specifically) and to top it off, our next President might very likely be black.  What if something were to happen to him and what further tension could that cause?
31  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Democracy vs. Republic on: May 15, 2007, 01:20:30 PM
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

Winston Churchill

"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."

Winston Churchill

Prepared under the direction of the Chief of Staff.  Training Manual No. 2000-25 that was published by the then War Department, Washington, D.C., November 30, 1928.

CITIZENSHIP


This manual supersedes Manual of Citizenship Training The use of the publication "The Constitution of the United States," by Harry Atwood, is by permission and courtesy of the author.

CITIZENSHIP Democracy:

A government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude toward property is communistic--negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether is be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Results in demogogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy

CITIZENSHIP Republic:

Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them. Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences. A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass. Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress. Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world. A republic is a form of government under a constitution which provides for the election of

(1) an executive and (2) a legislative body, who working together in a representative capacity, have all the power of appointment, all power of legislation, all power to raise revenue and appropriate expenditures, and are required to create (3) a judiciary to pass upon the justice and legality of their government acts and to recognize (4) certain inherent individual rights.

Take away any one or more of those four elements and you are drifting into autocracy. Add one or more to those four elements and you are drifting into democracy.

Atwood. Superior to all others.--Autocracy declares the divine right of kings; its authority can not be questioned; its powers are arbitrarily or unjustly administered. Democracy is the "direct" rule of the people and has been repeatedly tried without success. Our Constitutional fathers, familiar with the strength and weakness of both autocracy and democracy, with fixed principles definitely in mind, defined a representative republican form of government. They "made a very marked distinction between a republic and a democracy * * * and said repeatedly and emphatically that they had founded a republic."


"By order of the Secretary of War: C.P. Summerall, Major General, Chief of Staff. Official: Lutz Wahl, Major General, The Adjutant General.


WHY DEMOCRACIES FAIL

A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a Dictatorship.(Written by Professor Alexander Fraser Tytler, nearly two centuries ago while our thirteen original states were still colonies of Great Britain. At the time he was writing of the decline and fall of the Athenian Republic over two thousand years before.


"Did I say "republic?" By God, yes, I said "republic!" Long live the glorious republic of the United States of America. Damn democracy. It is a fraudulent term used, often by ignorant persons but no less often by intellectual fakers, to describe an infamous mixture of socialism, miscegenation, graft, confiscation of property and denial of personal rights to individuals whose virtuous principles make them offensive."

Westbrook Pegler: New York Journal American, January 25th and 26th, 1951, under the titles- Upholds Republic of U.S. Against Phony Democracy, Democracy in the U.S. Branded Meaningless


"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Thomas Jefferson, 1816.




32  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Proposed mex-us-can currency called Amero on: May 13, 2007, 07:45:38 PM
One more clip by Lou Dobbs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H65f3q_Lm9U
33  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Proposed mex-us-can currency called Amero on: May 13, 2007, 07:19:44 PM
With the decline of the dollar, the inflated price of the DOW, $685 an once gold, a proposed North American Community.  Do you think the Amero is a possibility in our future? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hiPrsc9g98

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" -- Mayer Amschel
Bauer Rothschild

The Federal Reserve is a privately owned monetary system as noted in US Supreme Court Case Lewis v. US of 1982. http://www.geocities.com/chrisforliberty/lewis.html

The CFR is one of America's most influencial think tanks.  Benn Steil, writing in the current issue of CFR's influential Foreign Affairs magazine, says "the world needs to abandon unwanted currencies, replacing them with dollars, euros, and multinational currencies as yet unborn." http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55595

An interesting take on the North American Community and a short talk on the Amero by Connie Fogal of The Canadian Action Party 54 minutes long but worth listening to a Canadian perspective.  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1355300745194023737

Also something that seemed to escape the attention of the mass media is the Transatlantic Economic Integration signed by President Bush on April 30th, 2007
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/04/20070430-4.html  Just the title 'economic integration' should set off alarm bells in your head if you agree that globalization is not necessarily good for the people of the world or more specifially the people of America.

A world currency and a 'new economic order' are also part of the elites plans for global governance. Eventually - specifically by 2018 if plans go accordingly - the "Phoenix" will be the world currency. Shown on the cover of The Economist in 1988, a phoenix is standing atop burning paper money symbolizing its rise out of their destruction, with the words "Get ready for a world currency" next to it.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/020507_b_market.htm
34  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / World Trade Center Tower 7 on: May 13, 2007, 07:01:07 PM
6 minute intro video.  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4556787288866368337

One important topic not widely discussed is the issue of a third skyscraper which collapsed on September 11, 2001 named WTC7.  This tower was 47 stories tall and included offices for the IRS, Secret Service, Security Exchange Commission, and Mayor Guiliani’s Office of Emergency Management.  WTC7 was located approximately 355 feet from WTC 1 and 2.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WTC_Building_Arrangement_and_Site_Plan.svg

In 1999 Mayor Guiliani created an emergency crisis center for $13 million.  It was essentially a bomb shelter housed on the 23rd floor and could withstand 160 mph winds, bomb blasts, bio-terror attacks, etc.  Included with his renovations were 3 generators to provide emergency power with a combined total of 42,000 gallons of diesel fuel throughout the building.

WTC7 collapsed at 5:25pm on Sept 11, 2001 in about 6.5 seconds at near free fall speed.  WTC7 fell on its own footprints similar to the twin towers and caused little damage to any adjacent structures.  (The Verizon building and the US post office received little damage.)

The building was evacuated of all civilians at 11:25am.  All remaining firefighters were evacuated by 4pm.  Craig Miller, a Secret Service agent, may have died during the collapse of tower 7 but that is in dispute.  Two conflicting reports are shown below.

"The Secret Service New York Field Office was located in 7 World Trade Center, which,
along with Towers 1 and 2, collapsed following the terrorist attacks.  One employee, Master Special Officer Craig Miller, died during the rescue efforts. Miller was temporarily assigned to New York in preparation for the United Nations General Assembly." http://www.ustreas.gov/usss/press/pub1202.pdf

"in selfless dedication to others, Master Special Officer Craig Miller was lost in the collapse of the World Trade Center." http://www.house.gov/istook/rel-ss-customs.htm.

Although there is no official explanation that I know of for the collapse of WTC7, one explanation is that the fires in the building reached the stored diesel fuel and the impending heat caused the steel to melt.

The 9/11 Commission Report does not mention WTC 7 anywhere it its 571 pages.  (Strangely it does not contain an index, making research very difficult.)  A list of respected senior members of the U.S. military, intelligence services, and government have expressed significant criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report.  http://www.wanttoknow.info/officialsquestion911commissionreport
A full copy of the 9-11 commission report is found at http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/fullreport.pdf


FEMA, in its official study, conducted by a 26 member group run by American Society of Engineers (ASCE) stated in their 296 page report in May 2002, “With the information and time available, the sequence of events leading to the collapse of each tower could not be definitively determined.”  http://www.asce.org/responds/

FEMA also reported, “The specifics of the fires in WTC 7 and how they caused the building to collapse remain unknown at this time. Although the total diesel fuel on the premises contained massive potential energy, the best hypothesis has only a low probability of occurrence.

National Institute of Standards and Technology is currently investigating whether or not explosives were used in the collapse of WTC7.  http://wtc.nist.gov/media/WTC7_Approach_Summary12Dec06.pdf   “While NIST has found no evidence of a blast or controlled demolition event, NIST would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one or more critical elements.”

Although the collapse of WTC7 should have been treated as a crime scene, no forensic testing took place because the steel was cut up and removed by FEMA.  Bill Manning, editor of a 125 year old publication of Fire Engineering in Jan 2002 writes, “For more than three months, structural steel from the World Trade Center has been and continues to be cut up and sold for scrap.  Crucial evidence that could answer many questions about high-rise building design practices and performance under fire conditions is on the slow boat to China, perhaps never to be seen again in America until you buy your next car.”
http://www.911research.wtc7.net/cache/wtc/groundzero/fe_burndingquestions.html

Larry Silverstein was the owner of WTC 7 and the lease holder for the World Trade Center Complex.  Silverstein Properties estimated investment in WTC was $386 million, its insurance company, Industrial Risk Insurers, paid $861 million to rebuild on the site of WTC 7.  The building’s collapse resulted in a profit of $500 million.  http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2004/12/07/48289.htm

Larry Silverstein who is shown in a PBS documentary entitled ‘America Rebuilds’ from Sept 10, 2002 states that “We’ve had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.  And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse.”  ‘Pull’ is industry slang for the controlled demolition of a building.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0scE7bQWdk

After some controversy Silverstein explained his statement as meaning pull the firefighters out of the building.

John Kerry in an interview stated that WTC7 brought down in a controlled fashion.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5q42xM2sj0

Dan Rather stated in a news broadcast that WTC7 looked similar to a building imploded by well placed dynamite.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvx904dAw0o

The BBC announced the collapse of WTC7 twenty six minutes before it came down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mxFRigYD3s

Certainly there was a lot of confusion the day of 9-11.  Was the collapse of WTC7 pre-planned?  If so, then it must have taken weeks if not months of advanced preparation to do so.  And of course, how could explosives be placed in the tower without anyone noticing? 

If it was not pre-planned then there are only two possible causes for its collapse that seem likely in my opinion.

1) Heat caused from combustion of 42,000 gallons of stored diesel fuel.  Described in Popular Mechanics, “Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time." http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=5
*I find it hard to believe that the fuel line did not have an automatic or manual shutoff valve.*

2) Structural damage in WTC7 caused by flying debris from the Twin Towers which fell 7 hours earlier.  I also see this as unlikely since there were other buildings closer to the Twin Towers that did not collapse and only sustained minor damage.

Some of my immediate questions that are yet to be answered would be….

1.  If 9-11 was the biggest crime committed in America, shouldn’t it merit the biggest criminal investigation? 

2.  If this single event caused the biggest loss of life to firemen, shouldn’t it merit the biggest fire and arson investigation?

3.  Never before has a steel framed skyscraper collapsed due to fire.  http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html
The architects of the Twin Towers claimed it would withstand multiple jumbo jet collisions. http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=1687698&date=19930227 Either the architects were wrong, or the buildings were brought down on purpose.  Shouldn’t there have been a bigger investigation to prevent such an engineering blunder in the future?

Regardless of whether you believe the official story about 9-11 or whether you still have unanswered questions, is this case really closed?  Don’t we owe it to the families of the victims to do everything possible to prevent this from happening again?

And a final thought….If you ask the average person, “what is the most corrupt profession?”  Most folks would say either lawyers or politicians.  Yet we blindly put our future and our children’s future in their hands everyday.  We go to the ballot feeling as if we have done our democratic duty.  But is that enough?  Governments by nature seek power and profit.  But to what end?  Bush asked the citizens of America to be vigilant.  There is a check and balance system expressly incorporated in the Constitution.  Aren’t the citizens the most important check on our government?  Isn’t it right and correct to continually ask questions and seek truth even if it isn’t popular or politically correct?

Some full length documentaries on 9-11….
Loose Change 2nd Edition  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501 and
Terror Storm  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=786048453686176230

"There are those in America today who have come to depend absolutely on government for their security. And when government fails they seek to rectify that failure in the form of granting government more power. So, as government has failed to control crime and violence with the means given it by the Constitution, they seek to give it more power at the expense of the Constitution. But in doing so, in their willingness to give up their arms in the name of safety, they are really giving up their protection from what has always been the chief source of despotism—government. Lord Acton said 'power corrupts.' Surely then, if this is true, the more power we give the government the more corrupt it will become. And if we give it the power to confiscate our arms we also give up the ultimate means to combat that corrupt power. In doing so we can only assure that we will eventually be totally subject to it." - Ronald Reagan
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