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351  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Health Thread (nutrition, medical, longevity, etc) on: June 05, 2007, 06:08:40 PM
While researching some issues for personal reasons I came across the following site.

Long office chair sitting sessions have consequences more drastic in terms of degenerative disc disease and back pain than running an ultra-marathon!

Office chairs come in one size. Humans come in many sizes. Small wonder that for many people, office chair sitting forces unsound habits of body positioning upon the base of their spine.

Office chair sitting has major back pain related consequences: tight hamstrings, Iliopsoas trigger points & Erector Spinae muscle fatigue.
352  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: June 2007 Gathering on: May 29, 2007, 10:29:25 PM

Dan is a pretty bright guy, I think he is up to keeping track of things

OK ... didnt mean to insult anyone's intelligence .. lol.  I was just hoping to get more of the fighters to voice their opinion...
353  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: June 2007 Gathering on: May 29, 2007, 09:39:25 PM
Should we create another thread with a poll about walls so it is easier to track?
354  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: June 2007 Gathering on: May 29, 2007, 04:04:38 PM
I vote for a wall but I think Im in the minority.
355  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: June 2007 Gathering on: May 26, 2007, 07:10:32 PM
Im interested in the idea but again since this is my first gathering I dont want to out do myself so to speak... ya know? Kinda like my "eyes are bigger than my stomach" kinda thing.  What I have in mind is to come down "whoop and get whooped" learn from it and be a better fighter at each gathering.

Guro Crafty, Im all for the wall.  evil
356  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: June 2007 Gathering on: May 26, 2007, 01:47:12 AM
What would the rules be? Would it be the same as when Top Dog fought the guy with the Bull Whip? As soon as the gap is closed the match is over? Do you go to the ground? Would you have a knife in the "back pocket?"
357  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Politics & Religion / Re: Howl of Respect to our Soldiers/Veterans on: May 25, 2007, 03:48:53 PM
I got this in my work email today from one of the upper management.


I received this from a retired Air Force Chief.  If you actually research its origin, this started in Canada (thus the color red for the Canadian flag) and was to show support for the Canadian troops serving in the Afghan war, but now it is a movement in the US to show support for our troops.  I'm wearing red to show support for our troops--I am not politically motivated, I am emotionally motivated because I see so many of our young soldiers sacrificing their lives for this country and this is my very small way of showing these soldiers that I support them...

"We need to remember everyday all of our soldiers and their families and thank God for them and their sacrifices. At the end of the day, it's
good to be an American.

RED FRIDAYS ----- Very soon, you will see a great many people wearing Red every Friday. The reason? Americans who support our troops used to
be called the 'silent majority'. We are no longer silent, and are voicing our love for God, country and home in record breaking numbers.
We are not organized, boisterous or over-bearing. We get no liberal media coverage on TV, to reflect our message or our opinions. Many
Americans, like you, me and all our friends, simply want to recognize that the vast majority of America supports our troops.

Our idea of showing solidarity and support for our troops with dignity and respect starts this Friday -and continues each and every Friday
until the troops all come home, sending a deafening message that.. Every red-blooded American who supports our men and women afar will
wear something red. By word of mouth, press, TV -- let's make the United States on every Friday a sea of red much like a homecoming
football game in the bleachers.

If every one of us who loves this country will share this with acquaintances, co-workers, friends, and family. It will not be long
before the USA is covered in RED and it will let our troops know the once 'silent' majority is on their side more than ever; certainly more
than the media lets on.

The first thing a soldier says when asked 'What can we do to make things better for you?' is...We need your support and your prayers.
Let's get the word out and lead with class and dignity, by example; and wear something red every Friday."
358  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: June 2007 Gathering on: May 25, 2007, 03:42:38 PM
Hmmmmmmm Im contemplating the idea Tom (nunchaku vs stick )... this is going to be my first time at a gathering.  Might as well make it as memorable as possible right?  shocked
359  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: sparring with bladed weapons on: May 24, 2007, 06:21:28 PM

With DB Gatherings part of the charm is that there are "No judges, no referees, no trophies"-- so part of me is leery of being pulled into such a function.


I hear that and what a tricky task it is to keep the sparring realistic.  I guess way it comes down to the players activating the "watcher" and being honest when a good slash or thrust is executed and felt but then again in such an adrenalized state sometimes the thrust \ slash isnt felt.  Tricky indeed.
360  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Music on: May 24, 2007, 03:04:57 AM
Excellent, I didnt know he is a Jazz Musician.  I wonder if that could be another thread.... the relation between Martial Arts and Musicianship / Art. I mean there are many people who express themselves through Martial Arts and through Music \ Art in various forms including dancing.
361  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: sparring with bladed weapons on: May 23, 2007, 09:12:32 PM
I think this is going to be a good thread and I look forward to reading some great replies. Im not sure how to address the some of the other questions but I guess in the case of sparring or in a Gathering setting maybe an option is to have several judges watching from different angles just like they do in the tournaments. Matches would be short but "realistic" if we follow the one hit concept that Maija practiced with Maestro Sonny, another idea is that while using the "one cut your out" concept add in the idea that if the cut is "Minor" i.e. on a hand then the cut person loses or has limited use of that hand or appendage.

so how do you train it alongside the idea that you probably will not......?

standing in front of someone holding a live blade, knife, machete, katana, pinute, whatever, and i can tell you that my first impulse is not to run at them, taking a few cuts on the way in as i go for the strike/take down.

IMHO I believe that one of the most important factors would be mental preparation.

I finally got a chance to watch the Grandfathers Speak VOL 2 and Maestro Sonny was amazingly fast, I liked his idea and ability to check with the flate of the blade vs using the alive \ empty hand.
362  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Humor/WTF on: May 22, 2007, 04:35:10 PM
Man busted while drunk driving in wheelchair

BERLIN (Reuters) - A wheelchair-bound German stunned police when they pulled him over for using the road and found he was 10 times over the legal alcohol limit for drivers.

"He was right in the middle of the road," said a spokesman for police in the northeastern city of Schwerin Tuesday. "The officers couldn't quite believe it when they saw the results of the breath test. That's a life-threatening figure."

The 31-year-old told police he had been out drinking with a friend and was a little over a mile from home when a squad car stopped him as he passed through the village of Ventschow.

Police said that because the man was technically traveling as a pedestrian, he could not be charged with a driving offence.
"It's not like we can impound his wheelchair," the spokesman said. "But he is facing some sort of punishment. It's just not clear yet what exactly that will be."

363  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: John Rambo on: May 22, 2007, 01:21:21 AM
New Rambo movie coming out.. I had no idea they were making this ....
Some gorey moments in this clip.

During the opening weekend of the 2007 Cannes Film Festival, footage from the upcoming "Rambo" sequel, entitled "John Rambo," made its rounds among distributors. The footage hit the internet shortly thereafter, and here it is in all its non-PC, R-rating friendly, slap-happy violent glory...
364  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Solar Flashlight on: May 21, 2007, 02:37:48 PM
Thanks for posting the article! What a great idea to add to your emergency preparedness kit, I forwarded the story to my family.
365  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: June 2007 Gathering on: May 20, 2007, 08:54:05 PM
Thanks to the both of you Toms!  I was born in that area but my parents moved to Illinois so I was thinking about checking that area out if we had the time.
366  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Yoga on: May 18, 2007, 07:54:35 PM
Hi Maija,

How would one be able to tell that they have a good Tai Chi instructor? I mean I can ask around but I don't really know anyone and their answer will probably be biased.
What qualities would a begginner to look for?

Also to others who practice Yoga what qualities should beginners look for in a Yoga instructor?
367  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Winky Wright on: May 18, 2007, 02:09:34 PM

368  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: June 2007 Gathering on: May 17, 2007, 09:13:41 PM
OMG, I hope to bring them with me! LOL. I checked the spelling and I believe it is El Cajon.

Yes, I think a wall would be most enjoyable!!!   How about all you other fighters?

369  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: June 2007 Gathering on: May 17, 2007, 08:41:54 PM
Wow this is going to be exciting!

Guro Crafty do you think that with the addition of camera lights it will have any effect on the mask like a small kind of glare? Will the crowd be sitting around the marked off area, with the fighters in the center and do we have to worry about getting backed into the crowd? Will there be a wall? Im just curious as this will be my first time  grin

On a non related note is San Tee or El Cajone very far?
370  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Environmental issues on: May 16, 2007, 02:25:21 PM
Cyclones May Extinguish Turtles

May 15, 2007 —More severe tropical cyclones expected as a result of climate change may lead to the extinction of the green sea turtle in some areas within 100 years, researchers say.

The cyclones are expected to threaten how well the turtles nest and hatch eggs, placing pressure on already endangered populations, some of which are also threatened by fish trawling.

Researchers including Ph.D. candidate David Pike, from the School of Biological Sciences at the University of Sydney, report their findings online in the journal Oecologia.

The researchers studied more than 40,000 sea turtles nests on an uninhabited, 24-mile stretch of beach along the Atlantic coast of Florida from 1995 to the end of 2005.

Each night during this period researchers surveyed the beach for turtles emerging to lay eggs, or for tracks of turtles that had already deposited eggs.

The stretch of beach is home to the loggerhead, green, and leatherback sea turtles, which start nesting at the beginning in April and end in late September.

This nesting season largely coincides with region's tropical storm season, which runs from June to November.

Leatherback turtles (Dermochelys coriacea) and, to a lesser degree, loggerhead turtles (Caretta caretta) get around this by nesting and hatching earlier.

Only nests laid late in the season are inundated with seawater during storm surges.

But green turtles (Chelonia mydas) nest last.

Their entire nesting season occurs during Florida's tropical cyclone season, which means their nests and developing eggs are extremely vulnerable to being washed away and killed.

Researchers are concerned that increases in the severity of tropical cyclones in the future may cause green turtle nesting success to worsen.

"Green turtles have always been at the bum end of the deal but [it appears] their deal is going to get worse over time," Pike says.

"In my opinion, they are at risk of becoming extinct over the next 100 years or so."

While the study did not look at other green turtle populations, including those along Australia's tropical north coast, Pike says these may also be affected by increased storm action.

371  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Stuck behind the desk? (Like me) Treadmill desks cut obesity on: May 15, 2007, 06:43:37 PM

Originally posted: May 15, 2007
Treadmill desks cut obesity
Sitting is an occupational hazard for office workers, but there’s a new way to avoid it: a vertical work station that incorporates a treadmill at a desk.

These “walk-and-work” office desks could help obese employees lose weight, according to a small study published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine.

The participants were able to use the computer while walking without falling or injuring themselves. In fact, they enjoyed it so much, they wanted to keep the walking desks even after the study ended.

The idea builds on the notion that we all need high levels of spontaneous activity throughout the day, also called non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT).

Obese people generally have low levels of NEAT. Lean people have high levels.

But does the desk treadmill really work? I checked with Nat Findlay, 52, who built a custom vertical workstation for $10,000, including $1,500 for the treadmill. (They're not all this expensive. The  workstation described in the study can be purchased for about $1,000)

“I was a classic guy on conference calls all day,” said Findlay, whose voice doesn’t betray the fact that his treadmill begins moving at less than a mile an hour when he picks up the phone.

“I’d sit in my chair all day and have no energy. I thought, ‘this is nuts. I’m making a nice salary but the rest of me is going to hell by just sitting there.”

Findlay got the idea from Mayo Clinic researcher James Levin, a co-author of the BJSM study who has been touting the benefits of his walking desk for years.

“At the end of the day, this is what we should be doing,” said Findlay, the vice president of Canadian operations for Cardinal Health, a healthcare company. “We’ve degenerated into the corporate world. Instead of spending millions of dollars in health care for employees, buy them a treadmill for their desk.”

I’m ready to trade my exercise ball chair for a desk treadmill. Hello, Chicago Tribune? Will you spring for one?

372  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Internet and related technology on: May 15, 2007, 04:25:08 PM
 --Google Research Finds 10 Percent of Web Pages Hold Malware (May 11, 2007) According to research from Google, 10 percent of web pages contain malicious code.  Google closely analyzed 4.5 million web pages over the course of a year and found that approximately ten percent, or 450,000, had the capability of installing malware without users' knowledge.  An additional 700,000 pages are believed to be infected with code that could harm users' computers.  The company says it has "started an effort to identify all web pages in the Internet that could be malicious."
Most entice users to visit the dangerous pages through tempting offers, and exploit holes in Microsoft Internet Explorer (IE) to install themselves on users' computers.  Google also examined the vectors used by attackers to infect these web pages; most malicious code was located in elements beyond the control of website owners, such as banner advertisements and widgets.

[Editor's Note (Skoudis): This is a very good piece of research, and contributes significantly to our understanding the malware threat better.  I recommend that you read it.  Also, it shows that today's Internet is a cesspool of malware.  Using mainstream browsers with patches that often follow weeks after exploits are in the wild is an increasingly dangerous proposition.]
373  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Honey Remedy Could Save Limbs on: May 14, 2007, 06:43:35 PM

Honey Remedy Could Save Limbs
Brandon Keim  10.11.06 | 1:00 AM
When Jennifer Eddy first saw an ulcer on the left foot of her patient, an elderly diabetic man, it was pink and quarter-sized. Fourteen months later, drug-resistant bacteria had made it an unrecognizable black mess.

Doctors tried everything they knew -- and failed. After five hospitalizations, four surgeries and regimens of antibiotics, the man had lost two toes. Doctors wanted to remove his entire foot.

"He preferred death to amputation, and everybody agreed he was going to die if he didn't get an amputation," said Eddy, a professor at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health.

With standard techniques exhausted, Eddy turned to a treatment used by ancient Sumerian physicians, touted in the Talmud and praised by Hippocrates: honey. Eddy dressed the wounds in honey-soaked gauze. In just two weeks, her patient's ulcers started to heal. Pink flesh replaced black. A year later, he could walk again.

"I've used honey in a dozen cases since then," said Eddy. "I've yet to have one that didn't improve."

Eddy is one of many doctors to recently rediscover honey as medicine. Abandoned with the advent of antibiotics in the 1940s and subsequently disregarded as folk quackery, a growing set of clinical literature and dozens of glowing anecdotes now recommend it.

Most tantalizingly, honey seems capable of combating the growing scourge of drug-resistant wound infections, including group A streptococcus -- the infamous flesh-eating bug -- and methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus, or MRSA, which in its most severe forms also destroys flesh. These have become alarmingly more common in recent years, with MRSA alone now responsible for half of all skin infections treated in U.S. emergency rooms. So-called superbugs cause thousands of deaths and disfigurements every year, and public health officials are alarmed.

Though the practice is uncommon in the United States, honey is successfully used elsewhere on wounds and burns that are unresponsive to other treatments. Some of the most promising results come from Germany's Bonn University Children's Hospital, where doctors have used honey to treat wounds in 50 children whose normal healing processes were weakened by chemotherapy.

The children, said pediatric oncologist Arne Simon, fared consistently better than those with the usual applications of iodine, antibiotics and silver-coated dressings. The only adverse effects were pain in 2 percent of the children and one incidence of eczema. These risks, he said, compare favorably to iodine's possible thyroid effects and the unknowns of silver -- and honey is also cheaper.

"We're dealing with chronic wounds, and every intervention which heals a chronic wound is cost effective, because most of those patients have medical histories of months or years," he said.

While Eddy bought honey at a supermarket, Simon used Medihoney, one of several varieties made from species of Leptospermum flowers found in New Zealand and Australia.

Honey, formed when bees swallow, digest and regurgitate nectar, contains approximately 600 compounds, depending on the type of flower and bee. Leptospermum honeys are renowned for their efficacy and dominate the commercial market, though scientists aren't totally sure why they work.

"All honey is antibacterial, because the bees add an enzyme that makes hydrogen peroxide," said Peter Molan, director of the Honey Research Unit at the University of Waikato in New Zealand. "But we still haven't managed to identify the active components. All we know is (the honey) works on an extremely broad spectrum."

Attempts in the lab to induce a bacterial resistance to honey have failed, Molan and Simon said. Honey's complex attack, they said, might make adaptation impossible.

Two dozen German hospitals are experimenting with medical honeys, which are also used in the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand. In the United States, however, honey as an antibiotic is nearly unknown. American doctors remain skeptical because studies on honey come from abroad and some are imperfectly designed, Molan said.

In a review published this year, Molan collected positive results from more than 20 studies involving 2,000 people. Supported by extensive animal research, he said, the evidence should sway the medical community -- especially when faced by drug-resistant bacteria.

"In some, antibiotics won't work at all," he said. "People are dying from these infections."

Commercial medical honeys are available online in the United States, and one company has applied for Food and Drug Administration approval. In the meantime, more complete clinical research is imminent. The German hospitals are documenting their cases in a database built by Simon's team in Bonn, while Eddy is conducting the first double-blind study.

"The more we keep giving antibiotics, the more we breed these superbugs. Wounds end up being repositories for them," Eddy said. "By eradicating them, honey could do a great job for society and to improve public health."

1 This story was updated to clarify that there are a range of MRSA symptoms, of which the most severe is necroticizing fasciitis. 10.11.06 | 6:01 PM
374  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Yoga on: May 14, 2007, 05:33:23 PM
Though, I have to say that a good choke-out is a great way to relieve a headache built by a day of eye strain from a computer screen.

That and delivering a  good beating with stick  grin
375  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Yoga on: May 14, 2007, 03:03:57 PM
You young guys who aren't doing flexibility and range of motion training now will be sorry as hell later.  Thta is one promise I can make unabashedly to you.

I hear that, I have been interested in the "hot box" for a while it is something that I will add to my list to create balance and "Walk as a warrior for all my days"
376  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: The ultra useful Illustrismo Cross Step on: May 11, 2007, 02:21:36 PM
Hey thats a pretty interesting cross reference Krait. Is your background primarily in the Chinese Martial Arts?
377  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Vegan Infants and Children II on: May 10, 2007, 05:40:05 PM
A continuation from the above article

Readers may also have heard of docosahexaenoic acid or DHA, a fatty acid which appears to be important for eye and brain development and is found primarily in animal foods. However, vegans can make DHA from another fatty acid called alpha-linolenic acid, which will be contained in the breast milk if the mother's diet includes good sources such as flaxseed oil, ground flaxseed and rapeseed oil. Reducing the use of other oils such as corn oil, sunflower oil, and safflower oil and limiting foods containing hydrogenated fats will also help the breast fed infant to make more DHA. These oils contain linoleic acid and
hydrogenated fats contain trans-fatty acids which interfere with DHA production.If breast feeding is not possible or is contraindicated, there is just one formula feed suitable for vegan infants: Vegan Society trade mark holder Farley's Soya Formula by Heinz. On no account should soya milk, nut milk, rice milk, oat milk, pea milk or other home-prepared "formulas" be used as these do not contain the appropriate ratio of nutrients and can lead to potentially life-threatening conditions.

Introduction of Solid Foods

Solid foods should not be introduced before 4 months of age. Try to introduce one new food at a time, waiting 2 to 3 days before trying another. It is then easier to identify which food is responsible if any untoward reaction occurs.

First weaning foods may include rice based dishes, pureed and sieved fruits such as banana, pear and apple, and vegetables such as carrot, potato and spinach. At 6 months of age, wheat and oat based cereals can be introduced. Foods containing generous amounts of protein such as mashed cooked pulses, mashed tofu and soya yogurt are generally introduced at around 7 to 8 months of age. Children should progress from mashed or pureed foods to pieces of soft food. Smooth nut and seed butters spread on bread or crackers can be introduced after the first birthday. In an atopic family, where there is a history of allergies, peanuts and nuts should be avoided until the child is at least 3 years of age (14) to allow the gut to mature and the immune system to develop fully.

As solid foods become a larger part of the diet, consideration should be given to foods which provide concentrated sources of calories and nutrients. These include mashed firm tofu, bean spreads, mashed avocado and cooked dried fruits. Frequent meals and snacks help to ensure adequate energy intakes. The fat intake of healthy infants should not be restricted, and sources such as vegetable oils or soft vegan margarine should be included in the older infant's diet.

To minimize the risk of choking, foods such as whole nuts, crunchy nut butters, vegan hot dogs, large chunks of hard raw fruits and vegetables, whole grapes, hard sweets, and popcorn should not be fed to infants and children younger than 3. However, chopping the nuts, slicing the hot dogs and halving the grapes can reduce the risk and allow such foods to be eaten by toddlers age 1-3 years. Corn syrup and honey (the latter is always avoided by vegans in the UK anyway) should not be given to infants younger than one year because of the risk of botulism, a form of food poisoning.

A note on nuts. The American Academy of Pediatrics does not recommend any sort of nut butters for children under 3 years. In families where there is a history of allergy, eczema or asthma, it is recommended that peanuts and peanut products be delayed until the child is at least 3 years old. Other children may have peanuts and tree nuts of a suitable texture, such as smooth nut butter, from the age of 6 months or when weaned, but not before 4 months. In the UK, it is recommended that peanuts be avoided by pregnant or breastfeeding women if there is a history of allergies. It is suggested that women who are atopic, or where the father or any sibling has atopic disease, may wish to avoid peanuts in their diet to reduce the risk of their children developing peanut allergy, but this is simply precautionary as there has been no conclusive evidence.

Many parents choose to use commercially prepared baby foods and there are some product suitable for vegan infants, though careful label reading is recommended. As there is only a limited selection of commercial products for the older vegan infant, many parents opt to prepare their own baby foods. Foods should be well washed, cooked thoroughly and blended or mashed to an appropriate consistency. Home prepared foods can be kept in the refrigerator for up to 2 days or frozen in small quantities for later use.

By 6 months of age, iron stores in omnivorous, vegetarian and vegan infants will become depleted and it is important that iron-rich foods are included in the diet. Iron-fortified infant cereals are a good way to supply iron to vegan infants Other good sources include whole grains, pulses, green leafy vegetables and dried fruits. To enhance iron absorption, add a source of vitamin C such as green leafy vegetables, citrus fruits, blackcurrants or orange juice to the meal.

For the non-vegan child, cow's milk is typically introduced around age 1 year. Commercial fortified non-dairy milks can be added to the diet of vegan toddlers around the same age provided that the child is growing normally, has an appropriate weight and height for age, and is eating a variety of foods including soya products, pulses, grains, fruits and vegetables. For children with slower growth who have been weaned from breast milk, ensure that the diet is energy dense by adding some healthful oils such as olive or rapeseed oil or choosing Plamil's fortified non-dairy milk or Farley's Soy Formula; both are Vegan Society trade mark holders and these product are suitable as a primary beverage as they are higher in calories than other fortified non-dairy milks. Choosing unflavoured varieties of non-dairy milk rather than flavours such as vanilla, cocoa, or carob can help to avoid the development of a preference for very sweet beverages by the young child.

Vegan Toddlers and Preschoolers

Toddlers and preschoolers, whether vegan or not, tend to eat less than most parents think they should. This is generally due to a developing sense of independence and a slowing in growth. While nutrient needs are also relatively lower than during infancy, an adequate diet remains important to promote growth and development. These early years are also important for developing healthy eating patterns that can establish a foundation for a healthful adult diet.

One important consideration for young vegan children is the ability to get enough calories. Young children have small stomachs and too much high fibre food may make them feel full before they get all the calories they need. Foods such as avocados, nut and seed butters, dried fruits, and soya products provide a concentrated source of calories. If necessary, the fibre content of the diet can be reduced by giving some refined grain products, fruit juices and peeled fruits and vegetables. Eating more frequent meals, including nutritious snacks, can also help to ensure adequate energy intakes.

Growth of Vegan Children

If a child's diet contains enough calories, normal growth and development can be expected and studies of vegan children have shown that their caloric intake is close to recommended levels and similar to intakes of non-vegan children of the same age(16,17).

Vegan children in the UK and the US have been found to be slightly shorter and lighter in weight than average but appeared to be growing at a normal rate(15,16). Children need a lot of energy in relation to their size and although healthy eating should be encouraged it is important that the diet be energy dense. Including foods such as vegetable oils, avocados, seeds, nut butters and pulses can provide both calories and nutrients. Dried fruits are also a concentrated source of energy and are an attractive food for many children. Children from an early age should be encouraged to brush teeth after eating dried fruits and other sweet foods to prevent tooth decay.

Key Nutrients for Vegan Children

Protein needs can be easily met if children eat a variety of plant foods and have an adequate intake of calories. It is unnecessary to plan and complement amino acids precisely within each meal so long as children eat a variety of foods each day. Sources of protein for vegan children include pulses (peas, beans, lentils, soya), grains (wheat, oats, rice, barley, buckwheat, millet, pasta, bread), nuts, meat substitutes and nut butters.

Calcium is an important nutrient for growing bones and teeth. Good sources include fortified non-dairy milks and juices, calcium-set tofu, baked beans and dark green leafy vegetables low in oxalic acid such as spring greens and kale. Calcium supplementation may be indicated in cases of inadequate dietary intake.

Children regularly exposed to sunlight under appropriate conditions (two to three times per week for about 20-30 minutes on hands and face) appear to have no dietary requirement for vitamin D. Those children who have limited exposure to sunlight or who are dark skinned and have no dietary source of vitamin D require supplements. Only a few foods naturally contain vitamin D (D3, cholecalciferol) and all of these are animal products. Vitamin D3 is usually obtained from lanolin, which is derived from sheep's wool and therefore not acceptable to vegans. Foods fortified with a vegan source of vitamin D (D2, ergocalciferol) include argarine, some non-dairy milks and fortified breakfast cereals.

Iron deficiency anemia is the most common childhood nutritional problem and is no more likely to occur in vegan than om non-vegan children(Cool. Good sources of iron include whole or enriched grains and grain products, iron-fortified cereals, legumes, green leafy vegetables and dried fruits. Diets of vegan and non-vegan children often contain similar amounts of zinc, though zinc from plant foods is less well absorbed as they contain phytate, which interferes with zinc absorption. Emphasising foods that are good sources of zinc and protein such as pulses and nuts can increase the amount of zinc in the diet and promote absorption. Use of yeast-leavened bread and fermented soya products such as tempeh and miso can also improve zinc absorption(Cool. Zinc supplements may be needed for young vegan children whose diet is based on high-phytate cereals and legumes(19). FSC and Seven Seas produce vegan vitamin and mineral supplements suitable for children.

Vegan children should use foods fortified with vitamin B12 or take vitamin B12 supplements. A variety of foods fortified with vitamin B12 are available, including some brands of vegan milk, meat substitutes, yeast extract and some breakfast cereals. Vegan Society trade mark holders Quest and Vega Nutritionals produce vegan vitamin B12 supplements.

The Transition to a Vegan Diet

Although today more and more children are vegan from birth, many older children also become vegan. There are many ways to make the transition from a non-vegan to a vegan diet. Some families gradually eliminate dairy products and eggs while others make a more abrupt transition. Regardless of which approach you choose, be sure to explain what is going on and why in a way that the child can understand. Offer foods that look familiar at first. Peanut butter sandwiches seem to be universally popular and many children like pasta or baked beans. Gradually introduce new foods. Watch your child's weight closely.

Weight loss is likely at first, but if it continues or the child seems to be growing less rapidly, add more concentrated calories and reduce the amount of fibre in the diet.

What Foods are Popular with Vegan Children?

Many vegan children like:

Bagels with nut butter or hummous
Bean burritos or tacos
Fresh or dried fruit
Mashed potatoes
Oven-cooked chips
Pancakes and waffles
Pasta with tomato sauce
Peanut butter and yeast extract sandwiches
Pizza without cheese, topped with vegetables and pulses, tofu, or fake meat
Raw vegetables with dips
Shakes made with soya milk and fruit
Spaghetti with tomato sauce
Tofu/vegetarian dogs
Veggie burgers

Vegan diets planned in accord with current dietary recommendations can meet the nutritional needs of infants and children, give children a better start in life and help to establish lifelong healthy eating patterns.

*Since 1976 Plamil Foods has produced case histories on over 100 children and this is a glowing testimony to veganism.


1. Gallup: The Realeat Survey 1997 Changing attitudes to meat consumption
Haldane Foods 1997

2. How many teens are vegetarian? Vegetarian Journal 2000; XX (1):10.

3. Sanders TAB, Manning J. The growth and development of vegan children. J
Hum Nutr Diet. 1992;5:11-21.

4. Fulton JR, Hutton CL, Stitt KR. Preschool vegetarian children. J Am Diet
Assoc. 1980;76:360-365.

5. McGill HC, McMahan CA, Herderick EE, Malcom GT, Tracy RE, Strong JP.
Origin of atherosclerosis in childhood and adolescence. Am J Clin Nutr.

6. Falkner B, Sherif K, Michel S, Kushner H. Dietary nutrients and blood
pressure in urban minority adolescents at risk for hypertension. Arch Pediatr
Adolesc Med. 2000;154:918-922.

7. Guo SS, Chumlea WC. Tracking of body mass index in children in relation to
overweight in adulthood. Am J Clin Nutr. 1999;70(suppl):145S-148S.

8. Messina V, Mangels AR. Considerations in planning vegan diets: Children. J
Am Diet Assoc. 2001;101:661-669.

9. Dwyer JT, Dietz WH,Jr, Andrews EM, Suskind RM. Nutritional status of
vegetarian children. Am J Clin Nutr. 1982;35:204-216.

10. vanStaveren WA, Dhuyvetter JHM, Bons A, Zeelen M, Hautvast JGAJ. Food
consumption and height/weight status of Dutch preschool children on
alternative diets. J Am Diet Assoc. 1985;85:1579-1584.

11. The American Dietetic Association. Position on vegetarian diets. J Am Diet
Assoc. 1997; 97:1317-1321.

12. American Dietetic Association. Promotion of breastfeeding. J Am Diet Assoc.

13. Specker BL, Black A, Allen L, Morrow F. Vitamin B12: Low milk
concentrations are related to low serum concentrations in vegetarian women
and to methylmalonic aciduria in their infants. Am J Clin Nutr. 1990;52:1073-

14. Committee on Nutrition, American Academy of Pediatrics. Pediatric
Nutrition Handbook. 4th ed. Elk Grove Village, IL: AAP; 1998.

15. Mangels AR, Messina V. Considerations in planning vegan diets: Infants. J
Am Diet Assoc. 2001;101:670-677.

16. O'Connell JM, Dibley MJ, Sierra J, Wallace B, Marks JS, Yip R. Growth of
vegetarian children. The Farm study. Pediatrics. 1989;84:475-481.

17. Sanders TAB. Growth and development of British vegan children. Am J Clin
Nutr. 1988;48:822-825.

18. Specker BL, Valanis B, Hertzberg V, Edwards N, Tsang RC. Sunshine
exposure and serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations in exclusively
breast-fed infants. J Pediatr. 1985;107:372-376.

19. Allen LH. Zinc and micronutrient supplements for children. Am J Clin Nutr.
378  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Vegan Infants and Children on: May 10, 2007, 05:39:09 PM
Wow, how sad ...  personally I love steak but I dont eat too much red meat.

I thought I would share this and add a positive note..


The Vegan Diet for Infants and Children

Reed Mangels, PhD, RD and Sandra Hood, BSc (Hons), SRD

(The Vegan, Autumn 2002)

It takes time and thought to feed infants and children, and all parents, should think carefully about what their children eat. The years from birth to adolescence are when eating habits are set, when growth rates are high, and to a large extent when the size of stores of essential nutrients such as calcium are determined. This article will examine the health benefits of vegan diets for children, address potential concerns, present information on key nutrients and provide guidelines for feeding vegan infants and children.

The number of vegans in the UK today is estimated at 0.5%(1) but we do not know how many of these are children. In the US, a poll commissioned by the Vegetarian Resource Group in the year 2000 found that about 0.5% of 6 to 17-year-olds were vegan and did not eat meat, fish, poultry, dairy products or eggs (2).

Health Benefits of Vegan Diets

Several studies have examined the nutrient intakes of vegan children.  One study of British school-age children found that they had higher intakes of fibre and that intakes of all vitamins and minerals studied (with the exception of calcium) were comparable with those of meat-eating children(3). Vegan pre-schoolers in the US were found to have generous intakes of protein, vitamins, and minerals and their diets exceeded recommended intakes for all nutrients studied with the exception of calcium (4).

The study showing lower calcium intakes by vegan pre-schoolers was conducted before calcium-fortified products were readily available, so calcium intakes of vegan children may be higher now. Calcium is important for bone development.  Around 45% of adult bone mass is accrued before 8 years of age, another 45% is added between 8-16 years of age and a further 10% accumulates in the next decade. Given the importance of calcium intake during childhood, all parents should ensure that their children's diets contain calcium-rich foods and meet current recommendations for calcium for their age group.

Regrettably, there have been few recent studies looking at the long-term effects of a vegan diet*, especially as it is believed that the foundations for many chronic diseases of adulthood have their beginnings in childhood. For instance, processes initiating atherosclerosis and high blood pressure are thought to start very early in life, and blood pressure and cholesterol levels have been shown to track from early childhood and to be related to childhood nutrient intakes(5,6). Body mass also tracks from early childhood, with obese children being at an increased risk of obesity in adulthood(7)

When we look at potential long-term health benefits of vegan diets, we find that vegan children have higher intakes of fruits and vegetables, foods that are important for health. Vegan children have been shown to have lower intakes of fat, saturated fat, and cholesterol than non-vegetarian children(9-10). This may be important in reducing the risk of developing chronic diseases such as heart disease and obesity. Finally, vegan diets may introduce children to a greater variety of whole plant foods, thus establishing healthful lifelong eating habits.

Vegan Infants

Up to the age of four to six months, the diets of many infants of vegan and of non-vegan parents are identical. The perfect food for the young infant is breast milk and supplementary foods should not be introduced until after four to six months of age. Breast-fed infants of well nourished vegan women tend to grow and develop normally(11). The infant receives many benefits from breast feeding, including some immune system enhancement, protection against infection, and reduced risk of allergies(12). Moreover, as human breast milk is the natural food for baby humans it also probably contains substances needed by growing infants which are not even known to be essential and are not included in infant formulas. Meanwhile, nursing mothers derive benefits such as reduced risk of premenopausal breast cancer, release of stress-relieving hormones and, for some, sheer convenience(12). For all these reasons, we strongly encourage breast feeding.

Vitamin B12 and vitamin D are key nutrients for a young infant being exclusively breast fed by a vegan woman. Mothers whose diets contain little or no vitamin B12 will produce milk with very low levels of vitamin B12(13). As this vitamin is important for the developing nervous system, it is crucial for the infant to have a reliable source of vitamin B12. Some vegan women opt to use a vitamin B12 supplement while others rely on fortified foods such as some breakfast cereals, fortified yeast extracts, non-dairy milks and some soya products in order to meet both their own and their baby's need for vitamin B12. If the mother's diet does not contain a reliable daily source of vitamin B12, the child itself should receive a daily source of vitamin B12.

The vitamin D content of breast milk varies with the mother's diet and her sun exposure, although vitamin D levels in breast milk are usually quite low. All children below three years of age have a high requirement for vitamin D to enable calcium deposition in bone. The Department of Health therefore recommends that vitamin drops containing vitamins A, C and D be used for all children from 6 months to 5 years of age, whether vegan, vegetarian or omnivore. Welfare vitamin drops which are available at low cost, or free to certain families, contain no animal products and are suitable for vegans.

379  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: ESKRIMA COALITION TOURNAMENT July 14th 2007 on: May 09, 2007, 05:11:11 PM
Anything else similar going on during the weekend of the gathering?  Ill be in town till the 26th.
380  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Army Squeezes Soldier Blogs, Maybe to Death on: May 08, 2007, 07:51:06 PM
From Wired

Army Squeezes Soldier Blogs, Maybe to Death

The U.S. Army has ordered soldiers to stop posting to blogs or sending personal e-mail messages, without first clearing the content with a superior officer, Wired News has learned. The directive, issued April 19, is the sharpest restriction on troops' online activities since the start of the Iraq war. And it could mean the end of military blogs, observers say.

Military officials have been wrestling for years with how to handle troops who publish blogs. Officers have weighed the need for wartime discretion against the opportunities for the public to personally connect with some of the most effective advocates for the operations in Afghanistan and Iraq -- the troops themselves. The secret-keepers have generally won the argument, and the once-permissive atmosphere has slowly grown more tightly regulated. Soldier-bloggers have dropped offline as a result.

The new rules (.pdf) obtained by Wired News require a commander be consulted before every blog update.

"This is the final nail in the coffin for combat blogging," said retired paratrooper Matthew Burden, editor of The Blog of War anthology. "No more military bloggers writing about their experiences in the combat zone. This is the best PR the military has -- it's most honest voice out of the war zone. And it's being silenced."

Army Regulation 530--1: Operations Security (OPSEC) (.pdf) restricts more than just blogs, however. Previous editions of the rules asked Army personnel to "consult with their immediate supervisor" before posting a document "that might contain sensitive and/or critical information in a public forum." The new version, in contrast, requires "an OPSEC review prior to publishing" anything -- from "web log (blog) postings" to comments on internet message boards, from resumes to letters home.

Failure to do so, the document adds, could result in a court-martial, or "administrative, disciplinary, contractual, or criminal action."

Despite the absolutist language, the guidelines' author, Major Ray Ceralde, said there is some leeway in enforcement of the rules. "It is not practical to check all communication, especially private communication," he noted in an e-mail. "Some units may require that soldiers register their blog with the unit for identification purposes with occasional spot checks after an initial review. Other units may require a review before every posting."

But with the regulations drawn so tightly, "many commanders will feel like they have no choice but to forbid their soldiers from blogging -- or even using e-mail," said Jeff Nuding, who won the bronze star for his service in Iraq. "If I'm a commander, and think that any slip-up gets me screwed, I'm making it easy: No blogs," added Nuding, writer of the "pro-victory" Dadmanly site. "I think this means the end of my blogging."

Active-duty troops aren't the only ones affected by the new guidelines. Civilians working for the military, Army contractors -- even soldiers' families -- are all subject to the directive as well.

But, while the regulations may apply to a broad swath of people, not everybody affected can actually read them. In a Kafka-esque turn, the guidelines are kept on the military's restricted Army Knowledge Online intranet. Many Army contractors -- and many family members -- don't have access to the site. Even those able to get in are finding their access is blocked to that particular file.

"Even though it is supposedly rewritten to include rules for contractors (i.e., me) I am not allowed to download it," e-mails Perry Jeffries, an Iraq war veteran now working as a contractor to the Armed Services Blood Program.

The U.S. military -- all militaries -- have long been concerned about their personnel inadvertently letting sensitive information out. Troops' mail was read and censored throughout World War II; back home, government posters warned citizens "careless talk kills."

Military blogs, or milblogs, as they're known in service-member circles, only make the potential for mischief worse. On a website, anyone, including foreign intelligence agents, can stop by and look for information.

"All that stuff we used to get around a bar and say to each other -- well, now because we're publishing it in open forums, now it's intel," said milblogger and retired Army officer John Donovan.

Passing on classified data -- real secrets -- is already a serious military crime. The new regulations (and their author) take an unusually expansive view of what kind of unclassified information a foe might find useful. In an article published by the official Army News Service, Maj. Ceralde "described how the Pentagon parking lot had more parked cars than usual on the evening of Jan. 16, 1991, and how pizza parlors noticed a significant increase of pizza to the Pentagon.... These observations are indicators, unclassified information available to all … that Operation Desert Storm (was about to) beg(i)n."

381  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Cintron targets UFC titlist! - on: May 08, 2007, 05:59:45 PM
Cintron targets UFC titlist!
Floyd Mayweather Jr. says he doesn't want to battle a UFC champion. No problem. IBF World Welterweight Champion and former high school/college wrestling star Kermit Cintron would like to accept the challenge from UFC President Dana White, it was announced today by Main Events CEO Kathy Duva. Cintron, who will be defending his IBF crown against mandatory challenger Walter Matthysse on July 14 in Atlantic City, NJ, would like to battle the UFC champion following his June IBF title defense. "I want the fight," said Cintron. "I can wrestle. I can box. I can beat those UFC fighters at their own game. Tell Mr. White to make me an offer and I'll take on his guy after I fight Matthysse on July 14." Cintron (27-1, 25 KO's) captured the vacant IBF crown on October 28, 2006, when he destroyed Mark Suarez in six rounds (TKO 6). The 27-year-old Reading, PA resident by way of Carolinas, Puerto Rico once finished 10th at the NJCAA Wrestling Championships. As a senior in high school he was offered full wrestling scholarships to Wisconsin University and Ohio State University. The Cintron-Matthysse bout will serve as the co-feature to the Arturo Gatti-Alfonso Gomez contest. Main Events is promoting the July 14 evening of boxing, in association with The Tournament of Contenders, LLC and Caesars Atlantic City.
Tuesday, May 8 2007
382  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Boxing Thread on: May 08, 2007, 04:57:20 PM
Wow, thats sad.  Didnt he just fight last month?
383  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Native Americans on: May 07, 2007, 04:53:07 PM
I thought this might belong in this thread, no disrespect intended.

"Homeland Security Fighting Terrorism Since 1492"

Maybe the best selling t-shirt ever to hit Indian Country, this Original Homeland Security t-shirt has taken the powwow circuit by storm. Not only is it the funniest Native American t-shirt we've seen in a long time, it also drives home a point. And, Local Yokel® is proud to bring it to the American public at large...well, up to size 3X.

100% cottom. Available only in black. The shirt is imported, but it's printed right here in the U.S.A.

Local Yokel® is an American Indian owned business. We support other Indian owned businesses whenever possible.
384  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Boxing Thread on: May 06, 2007, 05:01:08 PM
Hmmmm well......

I thought it was a decent fight, I would have liked to see Oscar just a tad more active and it was nice to see him more aggressive, I think if he used his Jab more often then the fight may have had a different outcome.  Mayweather is an excellent boxer but he didnt shut down nor did he "whoop his ass" like Roger Mayweather bragged about at the end of the fight. Overall I think it was a good fight. Worth the $55, I don't know but I enjoyed it.
385  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Tiny Terrier Rescues 5 Children From Pit Bull on: May 04, 2007, 05:10:10 AM,2933,269653,00.html

WELLINGTON, New Zealand —  This is a dog story.

It's about a plucky little Jack Russell terrier named George, who stood like a giant against two marauding pit bulls and gave his own life to save five kids from the steel-trap jaws and razor-sharp teeth of the vicious attack machines.

Local officials say it's also a story about the people who trained the pit bulls to kill and who may have fed the animals methamphetamines to make them even more deadly.

The tragedy unfolded Sunday afternoon on New Zealand's North Island, in the town of Manaia, where a group of children — and George — were walking back from a trip to the candy store.

Out of nowhere, the children told police, the two pit bulls lunged at them.

One of the kids, Richard Rosewarne, 11, told the local paper that George never backed down against the pit bulls, doggedly refusing to let the them get at his little brother, 4-year-old Darryl.

"George tried to protect us by barking and rushing at them, but they started to bite him — one on the head and the other on the back," Rosewarne said. "We ran off crying and some people saw what was happening and rescued George."

It was too late, however, to save the little 9-year-old terrier. Steven Hopkinson, the veterinarian who treated George, said the dog's wounds were the worst he'd seen. Putting him down, Hopkinson said, was the only option.

For Allan Gay, George's owner, the loss is especially devastating. He lives alone and George had been his faithful companion for seven of his nine years, inheriting the pup when neighbors moved away.

"These two pitbulls rushed up and were going for the little boy," Gay said, choking back tears. "George went for them, it's what he would do. He didn't stand a chance, but I reckon he saved that boy from being chewed up.

"If it wasn't for George, those kids would have copped it," Gay said.

Gay said he had been receiving phone calls non-stop from relatives and news media since word got out about George's heroics.

"The phone has been going since about half past seven this morning. Every time I hang up it rings again. It's worn out; I might have to get a new one," he said.

The pit bulls, meanwhile, were found Tuesday and turned over to local officials, who said they would be destroyed.

Officials also are investigating reports that the dogs could have been given methamphetamines to make them more aggressive and very unpredictable.

"I understand it commonly happens in Rotorua," animal control officer Kiernan Best said.

"The pitbulls I've had dealings with are naturally aggressive because of the type of people they are with," Best said. "They keep pitbulls around because they don't like visitors, and one can only presume they have something to hide, that they are into crime and drugs.

"They are paranoid about officials visiting and the dog emulates the owner," Best said.

Gay, meanwhile, and the kids George saved built a makeshift memorial to their hero.

"George was brave," Gay said, as each of the kids held a photo of the little pup they'll never forget. "He took them on and he's not even a foot high. ... He jumped in on them, he tried to keep them off."

And, he gave his life doing so.

The Associate Press and Taranaki Daily News contributed to this report.
386  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Humor/WTF on: May 03, 2007, 09:41:20 PM
OK... thats definitely a WTF??  huh
387  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Boxing Thread on: May 03, 2007, 08:58:42 PM
No problem Chris. 
388  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Boxing Thread on: May 03, 2007, 04:18:26 PM
Also at is this article, the counter to Mike Freeman by Gregg Doyel

Boxing is dead, but its brain still hasn't gotten the message to the body. That will come after this weekend, after Oscar De La Hoya fights Floyd Mayweather. Don't be fooled by whatever noise comes out of Las Vegas. It's just boxing's death rattle.

Once Oscar De La Hoya retires, what will boxing have to offer? (Getty Images)   
Boxing has been dying for years, of course. But the old boy has bled and wheezed and stumbled onward because, frankly, there was nothing to take its place. Nothing to finish off this once-regal sport -- which has spent decades hitting itself in the stomach -- with a fist to the face.

There's something to finish off boxing now. If you know what I'm talking about, you know exactly what I'm talking about. And if you don't know, you're going to laugh or scoff or leave this page so you can read cranky old Mike Freeman grump about all those whippersnappers and hooligans in the UFC. Freeman was listening to Bananarama and wearing denim shorts when he wrote that column. Denim shorts are out, you know. They're yesterday.

So is boxing. Boxing is out. Expired. Irrelevant.

Mixed martial arts -- MMA, thank you very much -- will be the new boxing. And the UFC will be the new WBA. Or WBC. Or WBO. Or IBF. Or whatever useless string of letters boxing tried to throw together as it took its final breaths.

Boxing is dead not just because boxing is worse than ever -- which it is -- but also because the UFC is better than boxing on all but boxing's best day. Give boxing a charmer like Muhammad Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard, and give him some talented competition like Joe Frazier or Thomas Hearns, and boxing has a chance. Give boxing Ruslan Chagaev and Vitali Klitschko, and it's being rushed to the hospital, its heart stopped, none of the doctors caring enough to save it.

And don't give me De La Hoya-Mayweather. What are they, welterweights? Middleweights? I'm not looking it up, because I don't care. And that's the point. Boxing has lost me, and lots of people like me, because the fighters aren't as good, the rivalries aren't as compelling, and the access -- it's all about (free) TV, people -- isn't as easy.

The heavyweight champion used to be the most famous man in the world. But boxing is so inept now that when its heavyweight champ was a 7-foot, 325-pound circus act, most people still couldn't name him (he was Nikolai Valuev, and you didn't miss much.)

In the 1980s boxing grabbed me by the heart with Marvelous Marvin Hagler, Roberto Duran, Leonard, "Hit Man" Hearns and Aaron Pryor. Alexis Arguello, Tony Ayala and Dwight Qawi. Sean O'Grady and Cornelius Boza-Edwards. Marvin Johnson. Yaqui Lopez.

Now it's full of ... who? Who matters in boxing beyond De La Hoya and Mayweather? Nobody, and De La Hoya will probably retire after this fight. That'll leave Mayweather to fight somebody you've never heard of. Let's see HBO market that.

Meanwhile, the UFC is growing impossibly fast even without a major television breakthrough. Spike TV airs old UFC cards on Tuesdays and the reality show The Ultimate Fighter 5 on Thursdays (Corey Hill is a future champ, Gabe Ruediger is a narcissistic fraud and Jens Pulver is my kind of coach). But that's not the TV breakthrough I have in mind.

UFC also is growing as a pay-per-view ticket, breaking some boxing (and pro wrestling) records and soon to break them all. Until this spring the UFC had been a West Coast phenomenon, but when it visited Columbus, Ohio, in March it sold all 19,000 available tickets in hours. Earlier this month the UFC went to England for a free show on Spike. The UFC is spreading globally -- but that's not the TV breakthrough, either.

As soon as ESPN and UFC president Dana White make a deal, UFC will reach a tipping point -- on its way to becoming more popular than boxing ever was. Mark my words. The sport is that cool, and after growing underground, it's ready to rise up and swallow boxing whole.

Basically, the UFC is everything boxing should be. Fast action. Quick fights, even ones that go the distance. Brutal knockouts. Fascinating characters. And in White the UFC has a magnetic, believable front man that boxing, stuck with Don King and Bob Arum, lacks.

The whole process -- UFC in, boxing out -- is happening faster than you realize, because behind the scenes boxing is being robbed by mixed martial arts. Boxing gyms are yesterday. MMA workout dens are today and tomorrow. Talented young fighters now have a choice, and many are chasing the UFC, not the IBF. As that talent drain continues, boxing's slide will become irreversible. Maybe it already has become irreversible. OK by me. Boxing had its chance and blew it. Kind of like the Tyrannosaurus.

This weekend, two of the last dinosaurs will go at it in Las Vegas. People will watch, because old habits die hard.


A funeral deserves a good turnout.

389  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Boxing Thread on: May 03, 2007, 04:09:28 PM
Joking about what? That is an actual article written by Mike Freeman that was posted @
Perhaps I should have clarified that I didnt write the article. I just find it astound as to how someone can still think this way of the UFC especially a journalist.  Maybe it is his own way of trying to save boxing.
390  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Part 2 - De La Hoya-Mayweather will separate boxing from thuggish UFC on: May 03, 2007, 03:03:42 PM

No UFC goon has or ever will possess the grace and natural showmanship of De La Hoya or the true fearsome fighting skills of Mayweather.

Notice the word: skills. This match will not resemble a bar-room brawl but meticulous, highly practiced, man-to-man warfare between two skilled, all-time athletes.

It is only a matter of time before the UFC suckers, er, fans realize they have been fooled by a Jedi mind trick.

The UFC should be banned; the De La Hoya-Mayweather bout should be embraced.

The fact a non-heavyweight match is getting so much attention shows that boxing still has appeal (and even I once thought it was dead). The fact boxing has survived despite so many scandals and crooked promoters demonstrate it has resilience.

"This (fight) is important because boxing is at its lowest point and boxing has been at its lowest point for quite a while now," De La Hoya told the New York Post. "Boxing is always taking these low blows left and right from people. This will give it a good shot in the arm."

The fight can do more than that. It can begin a resurgence perhaps not seen before in American sports. If the fight is particularly competitive, casual fans will give boxing another look and the all-important advertisers will again open their wallets instead of turning their backs.

Then maybe we can begin to put the sad joke that is the UFC behind us.

And once again we can get excited about a real sport.

391  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / De La Hoya-Mayweather will separate boxing from thuggish UFC on: May 03, 2007, 02:50:43 PM
I think this could go into either the Boxing or MMA Thread. I for one enjoy both sports but this guy is definitely opinionated.
Youll have to go the site and read the rest of the article for some reason the 2nd page it taking forever to load....sorry.

This is what the Oscar De La Hoya-Floyd Mayweather fight, one of the most important events in recent sports history, really means: It's boxing's last stand.

Boxing is fighting for its life, and in some ways the largest obstacle to its rebirth is its greatest competitor -- the worst league ever invented, the UFC. Which means it is good vs. evil, Halle Berry vs. Courtney Love, true sport against the mosh pit of sweat and bloodied skull fractures known as ultimate fighting.

It's up to Oscar and Floyd to get boxing back on the national landscape. (Getty Images)   
De La Hoya and Mayweather can single-handedly save their sport from deteriorating into dust while simultaneously stopping the advance of the UFC barbarians at the gate, trying to destroy boxing by polluting pay-per-view with their brand of low-brow, ghetto-fabulous hooliganism.

This is it. This is when boxing emerges from its great depression riding the shoulders of De La Hoya and finally strikes a blow to the caged ignorance that is mixed martial arts.

It will happen.

In the coming days, you will read foofs who will say boxing can never survive, despite one of the more glorious bouts just several days away. On Thursday, you will attempt to stomach the dopey ramblings of my good friend Gregg Doyel, otherwise known as Captain Persnickety, downplaying this grand moment in history. He's probably another ultimate fighting apologist as well.

Mixed martial arts will never be as good as boxing on its worst day. Many of the ultimates are nothing but thugs and ruffians. All that league has done is take a few former nightclub bouncers, knuckle crackers and parolees, put on some fancy TV graphics and told them, "Kick the other guy in the nuts."

No skill is required to knee someone in the groin (and it happens despite rules stating it is illegal). I'm kneeing Doyel in the groin now. See, was that difficult?

Next on Spike TV: Man eats another man's face. Then some dork will call it a sport.

The UFC has no credibility. UFC equals the Ultimate Farcical Clown league.

And please do not wax poetic about the UFC's popularity. Of course people watch the UFC. It's human cockfighting. It appeals to the lowest common denominator of human existence.

The message boards and my e-mail will be irradiated with balderdash about how the mainstream media is simply a bunch of snobs and we don't "get" the Ultimate Farcical Clown league. I love the NFL. Only Roman gladiators had a more dangerous sporting profession. The NFL is more violent than the UFC, but football at least possesses a veneer of being civilized.

Boxing is almost comically imperfect. It is full of crooks, con artists and ear biters (and that's just a weekend in Atlantic City with Mike Tyson). Despite its faults and notwithstanding the massive greed that has caused boxing to collapse on itself like a dying sun, boxing has more charm in its broken pinky than the Ultimate Farcical Clown league does in its entire crappy organization.

392  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Boxing Thread on: May 02, 2007, 10:00:16 PM

De La Hoya-Mayweather presser!
By Mike Sloan / Photo: Mary Ann Owen

Comments were brief at today's final press conference for Saturday's Oscar De La Hoya vs Floyd Mayweather showdown at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. Both fighters stated their training camps were perfect and this is the biggest fight of their lives. De La Hoya said, "I've never been this focused and this motivated in my life....this is the fight of my life....on Cinco de Mayo I will prove that I am still the best pound-for-pound fighter." Floyd recalled the days when both fighters fought under the Top Rank banner. "I never wanted to get close to him because I always knew I was going to fight him," stated Floyd. "Now is my chance to prove that I'm the best." Floyd's trainer Roger Mayweather commented, "This fight is supposed to be the greatest fighter against the greatest popular fighter, but we all know what will happen. Someone's getting their a-- kicked and it ain't going to be my nephew." Oscar's trainer Freddie Roach countered, "I don't have much to say, all I know is it's going to be a real short night." Things were calm when fighters faced off for photographers. They will weigh-in at 2PM Friday.
Wednesday, May 2 2007

Oscar, Floyd quick quotes!
By Albert Howell
Oscar de la Hoya: "We are ready for this fight. Floyd Mayweather is always in good shape. We are expecting the best-of-the-best. Having Freddy Roach in my corner I believe will make a difference.....It is up to us two fighters to fight the best we can. I am going to fight as hard as I can. May 5th is an important date for me and I have trained hard to beat Floyd Mayweather on May 5th."
Floyd Mayweather, Jr.: "I am here. I know what it takes. I am hungry and I am willing to die on May 5th.....I am looking forward to giving the fans excitement. On May 5th you will see the best Floyd Mayweather."
Freddy Roach, Trainer for Oscar de la Hoya: "We had a great training camp in Puerto Rico. My guy is ready to go. Don't miss this one! It might not last long."
Roger Mayweather, Trainer for Floyd Mayweather: "My nephew knows nothing about losing. He only knows winning."
Wednesday, May 2 2007

393  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Internet and related technology on: May 02, 2007, 06:31:48 PM
Im not quite sure if this belongs in here, I thought I would just share it with those who like to tinker with to the creation of video / audio.
I like to play with video editing and was thinking about purchasing a MAC for video editing, their product Final Cut Pro is regarded as the best or at least one of the best for video editing. Anyway... long story short in my search of products I found

Althought it is not out yet but soon..... very soon!

Oh yeah... Ubuntu is a Linux OS which means it is FREEEEEEEEEEE  afro
394  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Charles Telerant on: May 02, 2007, 05:01:25 PM
Charles Telerant trains in the FMA as well.  Apparently he attended Datu Worden's camp in 06 and had a great time.

395  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Boxing Thread on: May 01, 2007, 01:24:12 PM
According to this blurb on 54.95.

In addition to De La Hoya-Mayweather, Saturday's 54.95 pay-per-view telecast will also feature two other fights, featherweight Rocky Juarez against Jose Hernandez and super bantamweight Rey Bautista against Sergio Medina.

Actually here is the whole thing:
De La Hoya vs Mayweather:
Fight Week is finally here!
By Karl Freitag
After a three month media campaign that included an eleven city press tour, a half-dozen conference calls, and even a four-part HBO preview, "Fight Week" for Oscar De La Hoya and Floyd Mayweather officially kicks off today in Las Vegas. Mayweather, who lives and trains in Las Vegas, will simply come across town to make his "grand arrival" at the MGM Grand at 11:30AM. De La Hoya is scheduled to arrive from Puerto Rico via Los Angeles at 12:15PM. Fight fans are invited to meet both fighters at the MGM Grand lobby. On Wednesday, Oscar and Floyd are scheduled to face off in front of reporters at a prefight press conference. On Friday, the weigh-in will be open to the public and is scheduled at 2PM in the MGM Grand Garden Arena.

In addition to De La Hoya-Mayweather, Saturday's 54.95 pay-per-view telecast will also feature two other fights, featherweight Rocky Juarez against Jose Hernandez and super bantamweight Rey Bautista against Sergio Medina.
There are two other major fight cards in town on May 4, the eve of the big fight. At the MGM Grand Conference Center Ballroom, WBO flyweight champion Hugo Cazares will defend his title against Wilfrido Perez, plus Francisco "Panchito" Bojado returns. Telefutura will televise. At the Palms Casino Resort, the first-ever professional boxing event in "The Pearl" - a recently opened 2,500 capacity, state-of-the-art theater - will feature undefeated USBA heavyweight champion "Fast" Eddie Chambers against Dominick Guinn. That card will also be televised.
One of the big announcements that will be made this week is that Bernard Hopkins vs Winky Wright will take place on July 21 across the street at Mandalay Bay.
De La Hoya-Mayweather sold out in only three hours and will generate a record live gate of $19.3 million. But what if you don't have tickets and you just have to be there in person? currently has 837 tickets available ranging from $920 to $24,725 each.
At, the odds have closed to Mayweather -170, De La Hoya +140. Meanwhile, in the poll, 62% predict a win for Oscar (43% by KO, 19% by decision), just 38% like Floyd (8% by KO, 30% by decision).
Tuesday, May 1 2007
396  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: Boxing Thread on: May 01, 2007, 12:18:26 PM
Im looking forward to this fight.

I haven't seen the latest installment, but contentwise it was ok... I think the most interesting thing I learned so far was that Freddy Roach is dealing with parkinsons and the training is helping him keep it in check.

Personally I would like to see Oscar win even though I like both boxers & the last few boxers that were really able to anger Oscar were knocked out. Yeah I know Floyd is slick and fast. Will Oscar come out and try to mow him down while Floys uses his smooth moves to evade and tire Oscar?? We shall soon see.
397  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: June 2007 Gathering on: April 30, 2007, 08:21:46 PM
Yeah,  the poll now shows that I am no longer the only first time Gathering fighter!  Im not alone...   
I can stop howling at the moon now. 

Thats right, you are not alone and neither am I.  grin

Just a question, what is everyones preference? Single, Double ... Staff??
398  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: MMA Thread on: April 27, 2007, 03:48:29 AM
Well Andy Wang lost and all I have to say is Why?Huh

Why didn't you listen to your corner, that is what they are there for!!

Oh well....
399  DBMA Martial Arts Forum / Martial Arts Topics / Re: VIDEO CLIPS OF INTEREST on: April 26, 2007, 09:39:28 PM
Just saw these today!

The crew in Beijing have mostly MMA backgrounds.  Some have worked a little Illustrisimo.

We had a lot of fun that day!


Great job! Indeed it does look like you guys had a lot of fun!

I found this clip at another forum, its s street fight in Turkey 1 guy takes on a few guys and does very well!

400  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities / Science, Culture, & Humanities / Re: Internet and related technology on: April 24, 2007, 03:30:44 PM

 --Contract Employee Arrested for Computer Sabotage at CA Power Facility (April 20 & 21, 2007) A California man has been arrested for allegedly interfering with computers at the California Independent System Operator (Cal-ISO) agency, which "controls the state's power transmission lines and runs its energy trading markets." Lonnie Charles Denison's "security access was suspended at the request of his employer based on an employee dispute." The allegation is that when his attempt at a remote cyber intrusion failed, Denison gained physical access to the facility with his card key; apparently not all access had been suspended.  Once inside the facility, Denison allegedly broke the glass protecting an emergency power cut-off station and pushed the button, causing much of the data center to shut down.  Cal-ISO was unable to access the energy trading market, but the power transmission grid was unaffected.,1,5633750.story?coll=la-headlines-technology
[Editor's Note (Skoudis): Here's a great opportunity for us all to emphasize to management the importance of removing access credentials thoroughly from systems at employee termination.  It also highlights the need for removing such access from both the physical and computer/network assets.  I treasure stories like this, which help us all to illustrate to management the importance of certain critical security actions so we can get the management attention and resources we need to do our jobs right.
(Schultz): This is a really scary "lesson learned" that illustrates just how many types of access must be considered when user access is supposed to be revoked. The fact that this incident occurred in the electric power arena is very significant because the convergence problem between logical and physically access security in this arena has been a lingering, serious, and unresolved issue for years. ]
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