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 71 
 on: November 17, 2014, 12:49:56 PM 
Started by Crafty_Dog - Last post by objectivist1
And furthermore - I must disagree with Crafty that the Republicans "got their asses kicked" with the last shutdown.  According to WHOM?  Yes - obviously the establishment media did and always will blame the Republicans, but what of it?  Did Republicans not just kick the Democrats' asses soundly?  I fail to see the horrible consequence that followed their half-hearted shutdown.  Someone please show me how that devastated the Republican Party.  If they had stuck to their guns, as they need to do now, and present this as STOPPING the President from IGNORING the Constitution - fund everything else - they can make that case quite well.  Taking the most important weapon in their arsenal off the table - the power of the purse - is simply moronic and ensures their defeat.  Obama knows they won't impeach him - if he also knows they will back down and fund his lawlessness, there are no limits to what he can get away with.   What is so damn hard to understand about this???

 72 
 on: November 17, 2014, 11:50:18 AM 
Started by Crafty_Dog - Last post by DougMacG
Doug,

Matthew's piece is not a hit piece on Republicans - far from it.  He's simply saying the Republicans need to stand their ground and let the blame fall where it belongs - on the Democrats and Obama.  The American people are vastly in favor of stopping Obama in his tracks - despite the fact that the media - even most pundits at Fox News - don't freakin' get it!  These idiot Republicans are so afraid of the media that they can't see this landslide victory right in front of their faces for what it is:  an unmistakable, unequivocal mandate to STOP THE OBAMA AGENDA NOW!!!

Thanks.  I get it that 'lilly-livered wimps' wasn't his characterization.  wink

It is certainly time to discuss the options available to stop the Obama agenda.  But in public and on these shows, Republicans don't need to overstate their recent win or over-reach their own new power.  That was the error made by Bush after reelection in 2004, by Obama after reelection in 2012, and by the Democratic congress when they seated their 60th Senator, all causing the pendulum of power to keep swinging back and forth.  When Obama makes his next over-reach, the story should be about Obama's over-reach, not about Republicans making scary, empty threats.  Our job is to govern soberly and responsibly, whatever that entails, and to stop his agenda mostly by winning the public and winning the next election.  Cutting back on unforced errors is part of that.  Moving forward on own positive agenda is the biggest part of that.  Investigating, answering and thwarting Obama and the Democrats is the least pleasant part of the job of governing.  

We can take unconstitutional acts by the President to the courts and to the people.  The power of the purse is a fact that does not need to be accompanied with talk of a total shutdown.
---------------------------------

Crafty asks: "When you deport these illegals, what happens to the children?  Do you tear families apart?  Do you deport these American citizens?"

In the first place, we are deporting nearly no one before or after this coming action so the point seems hypothetical if not moot.  If you did send adults back home and THEY want their families intact, presumably they would take their children with them.  We, who support some kind of border control and rule of law, are NOT the ones splitting up families.  It would take some level of credibility and compassion on the issue to make a reasonable case of that.  To just shout, send them all home, or, to hell with their families, is to lose all Hispanic- and Asian-American votes.

Obama spells it out with  a clearer incentive than a welfare application.  Father a child while you are here and you are in forever.  And as this wave looks at getting legalization, the next wave starts rolling in.  Very hard to stop.  That's why we look for comprehensive reform.  If it doesn't end with a rule we would enforce, why change any rules?

 73 
 on: November 17, 2014, 11:21:01 AM 
Started by Dog Dave - Last post by Crafty_Dog


http://tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/186725/german-anti-semitism-biller?utm_source=tabletmagazinelist&utm_campaign=01e84f57c5-Sunday_November_16_201411_14_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c308bf8edb-01e84f57c5-207194629

 74 
 on: November 17, 2014, 11:08:15 AM 
Started by Crafty_Dog - Last post by Crafty_Dog
Intelligent, thoughtful comments Doug.


 75 
 on: November 17, 2014, 11:06:35 AM 
Started by Crafty_Dog - Last post by Crafty_Dog
Here is my understanding:

58% of Americans oppose how Obama apparently is going to go about this.  58% of the American people are sympathetic to something like he is proposing getting done.

The class in question (illegals with American children) is chosen with politics in mind.  The question I anticipate being presented to Republicans is this:  When you deport these illegals, what happens to the children?  Do you tear families apart?  Do you deport these American citizens?

Again I ask for help on the legal/Constitutional aspect of Obama's threatened course of action.  Apparently there is a more plausible case for it being legal than I had realized.  http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/11/13/right-wing-media-wrong-about-the-legality-of-th/201553#discretion  

In addition to the general argument it makes about prosecutorial discretion (please address) to not pursue deportation, as best as I can tell there is the additional matter of the DACA "Program" giving work papers?  Where the hell did/does DACA come from.  Does "Program" mean it is of bureaucratic origin, or is it of statutory origin?  Perhaps our GM can help us out here with his wondrous google fu skills?


PS:  IMHO the Reps got their collective ass kicked on the last shut down.  That this was due to dishonest reporting from the Pravdas I don't dispute, but let us not kid ourselves on the political consequence.  If the same dynamics were to occur again (Reps fund everything except the matter in question and Obama chooses to let govt shut down occur instead and Pravdas blame Reps) what do you think will happen politically when Obama says

"When you deport these illegals, what happens to the children?  Do you tear families apart?  Do you deport these American citizens?"

 76 
 on: November 17, 2014, 10:57:34 AM 
Started by Crafty_Dog - Last post by G M
The mainstream/party structure of the GOP sucks.

 77 
 on: November 17, 2014, 10:56:44 AM 
Started by Crafty_Dog - Last post by DougMacG
Is there going to be hearings and reform of this perverted, taxpayer funded, office of stooges and puppets?

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/cbo-effectively-used-gruber-s-model-score-obamacare_819105.html?nopager=1

"Two well-placed sources on Capitol Hill say that the Congressional Budget Office effectively used Jonathan Gruberís model to score Obamacare. "


Yes they did.  And the Supreme Court did not.  It was a budget buster if scored honestly and unconstitutional as it was sold.  Odd that it is those of us who saw through the deception who are most upset about it.

 78 
 on: November 17, 2014, 10:44:07 AM 
Started by Crafty_Dog - Last post by DougMacG
As we re-debate the Iraq war(s) and what to do with "secular" dictators, I have been looking for the speech that Saddam gave in March 1991 accepting the UN resolutions that ended the Persian Gulf War at that time with a conditional ceasefire.  Not finding that speech, I post this Saddam speech from a week earlier for the record.  I count at least 60 references in one speech to God, the Almighty, Infidels, Holy War, Muslims, Islam, Islamic Faith, Mujahedeen, etc. plus verses quoted from the Koran.  That is a lot of religion for a man said to be secular.

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/02/27/world/war-gulf-iraqi-leader-saddam-hussein-s-speech-withdrawal-his-army-kuwait.html

In the name of God, the merciful, the compassionate.

O great people; O stalwart men in the forces of holy war and faith, glorious men of the mother of battles; O zealous, faithful and sincere people in our glorious nations, and among all Muslims and all virtuous people in the world; O glorious Iraqi women:

In such circumstances and times, it is difficult to talk about all that which should be talked about, and it is difficult to recall all that which has to be recalled. Despite this, we have to remind of what has to be reminded of, and say part -- a principal part -- of what should be said.

We start by saying that on this day, our valiant armed forces will complete their withdrawal from Kuwait. And on this day our fight against aggression and the ranks of infidelity, joined in an ugly coalition comprising 30 countries, which officially entered war against us under the leadership of the United States of America -- our fight against them would have lasted from the first month of this year, starting with the night of 16-17 [ January ] , until this moment in the current month, February of this year.

It was an epic duel which lasted for two months, which came to clearly confirm a lesson that God has wanted as a prelude of faith, impregnability and capability for the faithful, and a prelude of an [ abyss ] , weakness and humiliation which God Almighty has wanted for the infidels, the criminals, the traitors, the corrupt and the deviators.

To be added to this time is the time of the military and nonmilitary duel, including the military and the economic blockade, which was imposed on Iraq and which lasted throughout 1990 until today, and until the time God Almighty wishes it to last.

Before that, the duel lasted, in other forms, for years before this period of time. It was an epic struggle between right and wrong; we have talked about this in detail on previous occasions. The Age of the Showdown

It gave depth to the age of the showdown for the year 1990, and the already elapsed part of the year 1991.

Hence, we do not forget, because we will not forget this great struggling spirit, by which men of great faith stormed the fortifications and the weapons of deception and the Croesus [ Kuwaiti rulers ] treachery on the honorable day of the call. They did what they did within the context of legitimate deterrence and great principled action.

All that we have gone through or decided within its circumstances, obeying God's will and choosing a position of faith and chivalry, is a record of honor, the significance of which will not be missed by the people and nation and the values of Islam and humanity.

Their days will continue to be glorious and their past and future will continue to relate the story of a faithful, jealous and patient people, who believed in the will of God and in the values and stands accepted by the Almighty for the Arab nation in its leading role and for the Islamic nation in the essentials of its true faith and how they should be.

These values -- which had their effect in all those situations, offered the sacrifices they had offered in the struggle, and symbolized the depth of the faithful character in Iraq -- will continue to leave their effects on the souls.

They will continue to reap their harvest, not only in terms of direct targets represented in the slogans of their age -- whether in the conflict between the oppressed poor and the unjust and opportunist rich, or between faith and blasphemy, or between injustice, deception and treachery on the one hand and fairness, justice, honesty and loyalty on the other -- but also the indirect targets as well. Shake the Ranks of the Infidels

This will shake the opposite ranks and cause them to collapse after everything has become clear. This will also add faith to the faithful now that the minds and eyes have been opened and the hearts are longing for what the principles, values and stances should long for and belong to.

The stage that preceded the great day of the call on 2 August 1990 had its own standards, including dealing with what is familiar and inherited during the bad times, whether on the level of relations between the ruler and the ruled, or between the leader and the people he leads.

The relations between the foreigners among the ranks of infidelity and oppression and among the region's states and the world had their own standards, effects and privileges that were created by the Arab homeland's circumstances, and which were facilitated by propaganda, which no one could expose more than it has now been exposed.

The conflict was exacerbated by the vacuum that was created by the weakness of one of the two poles that used to represent the two opposite lines in the world. However, after the second of August 1990, new concepts and standards were created.

This was preceded by a new outlook in all walks of life, in relations among peoples, relations among states, and the relations between the ruler and the ruled, and by standards of faith and positions; patriotism, pan-Arabism, and humanitarianism; holy war, faith, Islam, fear and non-fear; restlessness and tranquillity; manhood and its opposite; struggle, holy war and sacrifice, and readiness to do good things and their opposite.

When new measures spring forth and the familiar, failed, traitorous, subservient and corrupt [ people ] , and tyrants are rejected, then the opportunity for the cultivation of the pure soil will increase in its scope, and the seeds of this plant will take root deep in the good land, primarily, the land of the Arabs, the land of the revelation and the messages, and the land of prophets. Quotes From the Koran

God says: "Like a goodly tree, whose root is firmly fixed, and its branches reach to the heavens. It brings forth its fruit at all times, by the leave of its Lord." [ Koranic verses ]

Then everything will become possible on the road of goodness and happiness that is not defiled by the feet of the invaders nor by their evil will or the corruption of the corrupt among those who have been corrupted, and who spread corruption in the land of the Arabs.
 
Moreover, the forces of plotting and treachery will be defeated for good. Good people and those who are distinguished by their faith and by their faithful, honorable stands of holy war will become the real leaders of the gathering of the faithful everywhere on earth, and the gathering of corruption, falsehood, hypocrisy and infidelity will be defeated and meet the vilest fate.

The earth will be inherited, at God's order, by His righteous slaves. "For the earth is God's, to give as a heritage to such of his servants as he pleaseth; and the end is best for the righteous." [ Koranic verses ]

When this happens, the near objectives will not only be within reach, available and possible, but also the doors will be open without any hindrance which might prevent the achievement of all the greater, remoter and more comprehensive objectives, to the Arabs, Muslims and humanity at large.

Then, also, it will be clear that the harvest does not precede the seeding, and that the threshing floor and the yield are the outcome of a successful seeding and a successful harvest. Even Greater Harvest to Come

The harvest in the mother of battles has succeeded. After we have harvested what we have harvested, the greater harvest and its yield will be in the time to come, and it will be much greater than what we have at present, in spite of what we have at present in terms of the victory, dignity and glory that was based on the sacrifices of a deep faith which is generous without any hesitation or fear.

It is by virtue of this faith that God has bestowed dignity upon the Iraqi mujahedeen, and upon all the depth of this course of holy war at the level of the Arab homeland and at the level of all those men whom God has chosen to be given the honor of allegiance, guidance and honorable position, until He declares that the conflict has stopped, or amends its directions and course and the positions in a manner which would please the faithful and increase their dignity.

O valiant Iraqi men, O glorious Iraqi women. Kuwait is part of your country and was carved from it in the past.

Circumstances today have willed that it remain in the state in which it will remain after the withdrawal of our struggling forces from it. It hurts you that this should happen.

We rejoiced on the day of the call when it was decided that Kuwait should be one of the main gates for deterring the plot and for defending all Iraq from the plotters. We say that we will remember Kuwait on the great day of the call, on the days that followed it, and in documents and events, some of which date back 70 years.

The Iraqis will remember and will not forget that on 8 August, 1990, Kuwait became part of Iraq legally, constitutionally and actually. They remember and will not forget that it remained throughout this period from 8 August 1990 and until last night, when withdrawal began, and today we will complete withdrawal of our forces, God willing. Circumstances of Withdrawal

Today certain circumstances made the Iraqi Army withdraw as a result of the ramifications which we mentioned, including the combined aggression by 30 countries. Their repugnant siege has been led in evil and aggression by the machine and the criminal entity of America and its major allies.

These malicious ranks took the depth and effectiveness of their aggressiveness not only from their aggressive premeditated intentions against Iraq, the Arab nation and Islam, but also from the position of those who were deceived by the claim of international legitimacy. Everyone will remember that the gates of Constantinople were not opened before the Muslims in the first struggling attempt, and that the international community [ placed ] dear Palestine's freedom and independence in oblivion.

Whatever the suspect parties try, by virtue of the sacrifices and struggle of the Palestinians and Iraqis, Palestine has returned anew to knock at the doors closed on evil.

Palestine returned to knock on those doors to force the tyrants and the traitors to a solution that would place it at the forefront of the issues that have to be resolved; a solution that would bring dignity to its people and provide better chances for better progress.

The issue of poverty and richness, fairness and unfairness, faith and infidelity, treachery and honesty and sincerity, have become titles corresponding to rare events and well-known people and trends that give priority to what is positive over what is negative, to what is sincere over what is treacherous and filthy, and to what is pure and honorable over what is corrupt, base and lowly. The confidence of the nationalists and the faithful mujahedeen and the Muslims has grown bigger than before, and great hope more and more.

Slogans have come out of their stores to strongly occupy the facades of the pan-Arab and human holy war and struggle. Therefore, victory is [ great ] now and in the future, God willing. 'Shout for Your Victory'

Shout for victory, O brothers; shout for your victory and the victory of all honorable people, O Iraqis. You have fought 30 countries, and all the evil and the largest machine of war and destruction in the world that surrounds them. If only one of these countries threatens anyone, this threat will have a swift and direct effect on the dignity, freedom, life, or freedom of this or that country, people and nation.
 
The soldiers of faith have triumphed over the soldiers of wrong, O stalwart men. Your God is the one who granted your victory. You triumphed when you rejected, in the name of faith, the will of evil which the evildoers wanted to impose on you to kill the fire of faith in your hearts.

You have chosen the path which you have chosen, including the acceptance of the Soviet initiative, but those evildoers persisted in their path and methods, thinking that they can impose their will on their Iraq, as they imagined and hoped.

This hope of theirs may remain in their heads, even after we withdraw from Kuwait. Therefore, we must be cautious, and preparedness to fight must remain at the highest level.

O you valiant men; you have fought the armies of 30 states and the capabilities of an even greater number of states which supplied them with the means of aggression and support. Faith, belief, hope and determination continue to fill your chests, souls and hearts.

They have even become deeper, stronger, brighter and more deeply rooted. God is great; God is great; may the lowly be defeated.

Victory is sweet with the help of God.

 79 
 on: November 17, 2014, 10:23:51 AM 
Started by Crafty_Dog - Last post by objectivist1
Doug,

Matthew's piece is not a hit piece on Republicans - far from it.  He's simply saying the Republicans need to stand their ground and let the blame fall where it belongs - on the Democrats and Obama.  The American people are vastly in favor of stopping Obama in his tracks - despite the fact that the media - even most pundits at Fox News - don't freakin' get it!  These idiot Republicans are so afraid of the media that they can't see this landslide victory right in front of their faces for what it is:  an unmistakable, unequivocal mandate to STOP THE OBAMA AGENDA NOW!!!

 80 
 on: November 17, 2014, 09:55:02 AM 
Started by Crafty_Dog - Last post by DougMacG
Obj,  You have two points in there that I also wanted to bring forward.  One is that, "the last government shutdown (caused by the President, not Republicans) led to the recent landslide victory of Republicans." - Obj     "The episode sent the unmistakable message that GOPers were champions of freedom of choice in health care." - FrontPage

Yes.  Republicans like Lee and Cruz and the House majority took a hard stance in defense of principles.  The immediate reaction was outrage and false blame, but the lasting effect was that, for a moment, we ended the blurred lines and lit up a clear distinction between our votes and their failed policies.  Unlike Republicans supporting federal mortgage agencies, Republicans writing Romneycare, Republicans expanding the federal Department of Education and increasing spending overall, we drew a clear line for the public to see on a crucially important matter and gained immensely from it.


Secondly, this is an amazing shift in public opinion on immigration reform brought on by the over-reaches of power by Pres. Obama:

"Oregon, a longtime Democrat stronghold, delivered a stark warning on illegal immigration to the presidentís party ... the vote to overturn the statute providing driverís licenses [to illegals] was a lopsided 66.4 percent to repeal compared to just 33.6 percent to uphold the law."
-------------------------------

All of that said, I don't see why an opinion piece about Democrats ready to obliterate the constitution for political gain has to be written as a hit piece on Republicans.   

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