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Author Topic: Knives for good  (Read 7489 times)
Crafty_Dog
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« on: January 15, 2007, 02:41:57 PM »

Woof All:

The news freely covers the wrong use of knives.  This thread is for examples of the good use of knives.

Although the following story strikes me as having some odd details (why would a 200 pound bear attack a full grown man in the middle of summer?) I share it here:

TAC,
CD
==============

CBC News


A man stabbed a black bear to death with a 15-cm hunting knife, saying he knew he would otherwise become "lunch" after it attacked him and his dog on a canoeing portage in northern Ontario.
Tom Tilley, a 55-year-old from Waterloo, Ont., said his American Staffordshire dog Sam growled a warning, then rushed to his defence as the bear came at them on a trail north of Wawa on Friday.

Tom Tilley and his dog, shown in an undated photo, escaped an attack by a black bear while portaging near Wawa, Ont.
(Waterloo Region Record/Canadian Press)

As Sam battled with the nearly 90-kilogram bear, Tilley jumped on its back and stabbed it with his knife.
"Love is a very powerful emotion and my thought right away was: 'You're not going to kill my dog,'" Tilley told the Waterloo Region Record.
"I really consider my dog a hero. Without that first warning, I would have had the bear clamping down on my neck."
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arkangel
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2007, 01:18:40 AM »

while i would not say this is very common it does happen here in igloo land. I think i remember when this happened. There was another case on the Island I believe when an OAP or damn near it defende himself against a mountain lion with a small knife he actually killed the cat.
From what i know of this past summer it was not so great for the bears in BC anyway. the berry crop which they rrely on for food, winter fat was not very abundant. There was a higher than average incidence of nuisance bears and one of the cubs they watch at whistler died of starvation. It may have been the year before, but i think it was this year.
Finally my personal fave is the story of the guy who had just started "playing" Jiu jitsu and he used to practice on his dog, one day whilst running he was stalked and attacked by a mountina lion. He believe it or not managed to get it's back and did what most of us would do, sunk his hooks in. Haha no mention of whether or not he sunk the third hook but I bet he applied the "Lion Killer." sorry. anyway he lay there for two hours i believe and let go of the animal because he was getting tired. The cat shot off into the woods due the the presence of a hiking party if i remember correctly.
it was in the paper so I am pretty sure it was a true story. whatever.
anyway i have to go, the stiking beavers are chewing through my interwebnet lines again and i am going to dropoff soon.
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argyll
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« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2007, 01:26:35 AM »

Greetings Crafty,

I believe this article fits your criteria, though not surprisingly, the British authorities don't see it that way. rolleyes 

Best regards,

Argyll

Quote

Police Officers Aided by Mystery Man Wielding Samurai Sword
Tyneside Cops Surprised by Sword-bearing Bystander Who Helped Stop Robbery, Save Officer
By Wanda Leibowitz

A mystery man wielding a samurai sword came to the aid of two detectives last night, as the police officers faced off with a gang of thieves attempting to commit a robbery. The outnumbered, unarmed detectives were in the midst of a violent confrontation with the robbers when a mystery man came to their rescue, brandishing a 3-foot samurai sword.
The scene took place in the Laygate neighborhood of South Shields, a town in the Tyneside region of England.

The two police officers had apprehended the criminals as they were about to break in to a house, and were engaged in hand to hand combat with the gang, who wielded chains and hammers. One of the thieves suddenly pulled a knife on the police officers, apparently intending to further escalate the violence. It was at this point that the mystery man suddenly appeared.

The anonymous man ran forward, wielding a samurai sword and shouting "Leave him alone, he's a police officer!" The mystery man then charged at the criminals, slashing his samurai sword wildly back and forth, and wounding at least one of the robbers.

The surprised and disoriented gang of robbers panicked and began to disperse. The police officers were able to arrest three thieves amidst the chaos, including one whom the mystery man had trivially wounded on the arm during the samurai sword attack. The mystery man and his samurai sword disappeared as soon as the gang started to break up.

The police officers gave this description of the mystery man: Caucasian, mustachioed, in his 40s, of medium build, and height approximately 5' 10". No information, such as suspected origin or place of purchase, has been released about the samurai sword.

Although the mystery man was helping the police, local Detective Inspector Peter Bent, of South Sheilds CID, said that he did not condone the actions of the mystery man. Brent said "There is no doubt this person assisted the police," but added that "It needs to be said we cannot condone vigilantism or people running around with swords or weapons. It will be up to the Crown Prosecution Service whether they see his actions as justified or going beyond reasonable force."

The three apprehended robbers, who were aged 29, 42, and 43, have been charged with aggravated burglary. One is scheduled to stand before South Tyneside magistrates on an additional charge of attempted wounding with intent to resist arrest

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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2007, 05:29:48 PM »

Outstanding!

And shame on the idea that they would think of prosecuting!
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arkangel
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« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2007, 04:15:27 PM »

could be a case of what they have to say versus what they should say. cant give free license to people who would wish to "aid" police officers. i dont trust most peeps with scissors let alone swords. just my pov
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2007, 10:40:20 AM »

I disagree completely.  In my opinion, the police and press should be praising this hero.
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arkangel
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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2007, 11:42:08 PM »

I think you misunderstand me, I didnt say they shouldn't, my point was a liability issue.
I think most people doing hat we do, especially those of us on the end of the spectrum we inhabit, really hitting each other, are of the same mentality as the gentleman with the sword. I have aided people in the past i have believed to be in need of assistance, none of these were policemen.
I can see why law enforcement say the things the way they do as in this case. I don't really believe the sword wielder just managed to walk away without anyone knowing who he was either.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2007, 07:05:28 AM »

What is the liability risk to praising this man?
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Dog Robertlk808
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« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2007, 09:02:13 PM »

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=10bccf02-46df-4e8d-bdd6-7cdd95bcfb39&k=97761

Knife saves hunter from angry bear
Man wounds animal, escapes with cuts and broken limb
 
Elise Stolte
The Edmonton Journal


Friday, August 17, 2007


EDMONTON - A man armed with a machete-style hunting knife suffered serious injuries to his arms and a leg as he fought off an angry bear near Grande Prairie on Wednesday evening.

The man was checking an area for the upcoming deer hunt when he walked between the mother bear and her three cubs.

The encounter happened near a creek in a farm field near the agricultural hamlet of Grovedale, 20 kilometres south of Grande Prairie.

A man working outside heard cries for help and called the fire department around 9:30 p.m.

Grande Prairie RCMP Const. Leanne Beattie said the man stabbed the bear three times with the large hunting knife before it took off.

The man had bite marks and scratches and appeared to have at least one broken limb. "That's good condition, considering," Beattie said.

"He ended up unintentionally cutting between the mom and the cubs, and as a result, mom got a little upset and went after him."

Smith described the man as in his 30s, about six feet tall with an average build. He was a stranger to the area.

After the attack, the man walked almost a kilometre back to the road. Despite his injuries, "he seemed all right," said Grovedale volunteer fire Capt. Troy Smith.

By the time the man was put into an ambulance, it was too dark to search the bush for the bear, Beattie said. Several Fish and Wildlife officers returned to the field Thursday in search of the wounded animal.

Officials aren't certain if it was a black bear that attacked the man. Black bears are more common than other species in the area, Beattie said
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"You see, it's not the blood you spill that gets you what you want, it's the blood you share. Your family, your friendships, your community, these are the most valuable things a man can have." Before Dishonor - Hatebreed
sgtmac_46
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2007, 07:58:32 PM »

I disagree completely.  In my opinion, the police and press should be praising this hero.
That's the UK for you.....they have all but abolished the idea of self-defense, defense of others, and most definitely, defense of property has being a legitimate right.

European nations in general believe that governments have the sole monopoly on legitimate violence.....it's one thing that seperates them from US.



Contrast that with the trend in many American states of passing enhanced Castle Doctrine laws that, among other things


Remove statutory obligations to retreat from intruders in the home before using lawful lethal force.

Remove statutory obligations to retreat from criminals in certain places (varying from state to state) but typically in your car or business, and in some states, ANY place you have a legal right to be.

Granting the assumption that if someone has entered your home illegal and/or to commit a crime, that you are justified in using lethal force based on that entry.

Granting broad civil immunity where it was determined that force was used lawfully, also mandating that in the event of a lawsuit, plantiff is required to pay all court costs, defense costs, and expenses to defendant.


My state of Missouri just passed such a law that officially went in to effect on August 28, 2007.

« Last Edit: August 31, 2007, 08:14:33 PM by sgtmac_46 » Logged
sgtmac_46
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2007, 08:03:05 PM »

I think you misunderstand me, I didnt say they shouldn't, my point was a liability issue.
I think most people doing hat we do, especially those of us on the end of the spectrum we inhabit, really hitting each other, are of the same mentality as the gentleman with the sword. I have aided people in the past i have believed to be in need of assistance, none of these were policemen.
I can see why law enforcement say the things the way they do as in this case. I don't really believe the sword wielder just managed to walk away without anyone knowing who he was either.

I don't see it as an issue of liability....there is no liability on the part of the police in saying that they aren't pursuing charges against this gentlemen.  The issue is the view held by UK police on citizens in general.....the belief that citizens have no real claim to using lawful violence.



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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2007, 04:05:26 AM »

Last updated September 29, 2007 5:29 p.m. PT
Teens attack older man, end up running for safety

By HECTOR CASTRO
P-I REPORTER

The man at the back of the Metro bus was older, wore glasses and apparently drew the attention of a group of alleged gang members who reportedly began harassing him.
But when one of them tried to take the man's glasses, he pulled a knife and fought back, Seattle police said.

"He began swinging at his attackers in self-defense," spokeswoman Renee Witt said.
When the melee was over, four of the teens had cuts, including some with superficial cuts to their buttocks, and one had a dislocated shoulder. The man was not hurt.

The incident began about 11:15 p.m. on a northbound bus traveling along Rainier Avenue South, Witt said. The five teens boarded near Rainer Beach High School, having attended a football game there, she said.
Police reports described the teens as known to officers and active members of a local gang.

Officers called to the bus after the fight initially believed the wounded teenagers were the victims, until other passengers aboard the bus told officers that it was the teens who started the disturbance.
All were treated at the scene by Seattle Fire Department medics and released to their parents, Witt said. The man was interviewed and released; his knife taken as evidence.

Detectives on Monday expect to review videotape of the fight captured on cameras mounted in the bus, Witt said.
Charges are likely to be filed against at least some of the teens, Witt said, but that decision rests with the King County Prosecutors Office.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2007, 08:50:20 AM »

Woof All:

I would like to mention that on page 66 of the Jan.'08 issue of "Tactical Knives" there is an article titled "Syderco's P'kal- Fist Full of Fight" which is about my friend Southnarc's reverse grip reverse edge Shivworks folder.    Those of you familiiar with Southnarc's Clinch Pick and Disciple designs know that a lot of serious combative IQ goes into the design of these knives and when we were talking last week he expressed a lot of pride to me that this, his first folder, has been done right.   We (DBIMA) are in conversation about carrying this knife.

TAC,
Crafty Dog
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Maxx
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« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2007, 12:08:36 PM »

Woof All:

I would like to mention that on page 66 of the Jan.'08 issue of "Tactical Knives" there is an article titled "Syderco's P'kal- Fist Full of Fight" which is about my friend Southnarc's reverse grip reverse edge Shivworks folder.    Those of you familiiar with Southnarc's Clinch Pick and Disciple designs know that a lot of serious combative IQ goes into the design of these knives and when we were talking last week he expressed a lot of pride to me that this, his first folder, has been done right.   We (DBIMA) are in conversation about carrying this knife.

TAC,
Crafty Dog

The only experiance My friends, My family and other's esp when I was in the Military of spydercos was the bad make of syderco's. Their tips always seem to break with just alittle added pressure. That's when I moved over to Cold Steel Knives for the Folders ,Cold Steel Tiger Claw Karambit and Sog Seal pup ( sog make beautiful fixed blades and Cold steel is just about the strongest sharpest knives I have ever owned)

I have drop any of the above mentioned before on their tips and nothing ever happend to them..Droped a Spyderco on its side and the tip broke. Now mind you this happend over the period of several Spyderco's and my friends,/family had gone though several spyderco's before we gave up.  Something you should look into. grin unless they changed the quality on how they make knives
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 12:12:03 PM by Maxx » Logged

TomFurman
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« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2007, 03:49:56 PM »

Quote
We (DBIMA) are in conversation about carrying this knife.

I like the deployment, but I'd rather you design your own based on your input, TopDog, Salty, etc. Inclusive of Lameco/Inosanto Mix/Sayoc/and Pekiti.

I used to bug Cliff Stewart about this. An LA Silat knife, and a W.A.R. knife grin

I have enjoyed looking at the designs that Ray Floro came up with.


---Tom
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2007, 10:39:16 PM »

Store owner who fought off robber with machete speaks outIt happened in the Woodhaven section of Queens
Eyewitness News
(New York - WABC, November 8, 2007) - A would-be robber remains hospitalized after a bodega owner fought him off with a machete in Woodhaven, Queens, Wednesday night.



Eyewitness News reporter Nina Pineda has his story.

It was hand-to-hand combat in an all-out, bloody brawl. We asked the store owner if he'd do anything differently. He said next time, he'd have two machetes.

"Whether it was to rob or to kill him, but then after he hit him with the machete, the robber said, 'Just call the cops, please just call the cops,'" Johann Marte said through his translator, Queens Assemblyman Jose Peralta.

Hiding his face for now, in case someone seeks revenge, the bodega owner justified reducing the robber to a bloody mess last night.

"He pulled his gun, I pulled my machete and we went to war," Marte said.

Marte, a father of four, said the alleged criminal walked in his Woodhaven corner store with guns blazing, then wound up begging him to call the police.

"He was aiming for the gun," Peralta said. "As soon as he saw the gun, he was aiming for the gun, and that's all he was aiming for. He started swinging away at the gun, and it was lucky for him he ended up hitting the hand."

Marte's machete slashed the gun-toting bandit's trigger finger off, along with part of his ear, in a battle witnesses believe the suspect deserved.

"He had to protect himself," one said. "You do what you can."

Local legislators warn store owners not to fight violence with violence. They're pushing for bodega safety measures, like panic buttons, connected to local precincts.

"He was very lucky to endure what he did, but we want to teach bodega owners not to do what he did," Peralta said. "Because unfortunately, nine times out of 10, they will end up dead."

Still, an eye-for-an-eye, says Marte, who was fired at four times before his machete beat the bullets.

"I came here to work, to work hard, and I work hard everyday," Marte said through Peralta. "And I had to defend myself, and that's what I did."

The store has been robbed three times in the past, and it seems the Queens district attorney will treat this as self-defense and not charge Marte with anything. The robber-turned-victim is still recovering. He faces a number of charges. 


http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...cal&id=5750763
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Maxx
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« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2007, 12:38:17 AM »

Syderco's P'kal- Fist Full of Fight" - I have messed around with this knife and it is a pretty awesome knife. Even from what I thought about Spyderco bad knives from the past. The knife opens well just right into a normal ice pick grip blade down and facing out and its not hard to take it into the blade facing inward but my question is ..What is the benifit for having the blade facing in? It seems alot harder to do zoneing out and slashing..It seems like the blade facing this way gives you less options then ice pick and blade facing out.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2007, 07:29:56 AM »

The designer of this knife is a friend, known on the internet by his nomme de plume of "Southnark" -- due to his line of work, he prefers his name remains unknown.  SN is one of the top RBSD instructors in the country and I recommend anything he is involved with highly.  Amongst his martial arts training SN was a student of Pekiti Tirsia guro Doug Marcaida.  PT includes edge-in ice pick as one of its methods.  He also has silat and if I am not mistaken, trained for a time at Sifu Francis Fong's academy in Atlanta GA.  At http://shivworks.com/ you can order his DVDs explaining and showing the logic of edge-in ice pick grip and how he envisions the application of this method. 

For simple purposes here and now, appreciate that edge in generates powerful ripping motions e.g. a blocked caveman strike completes by filetting (sp?) the inside of the forearm. 

Also worth noting is that Ray Floro uses edge-in.  His gift to me of such a knife after we worked out together is greatly valued.
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Maxx
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« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2007, 10:43:30 AM »

I have studied with the Blade down facing in before but never got heavy into it.I am going to have to mention this and try to cover alittle more training in blade facing in.. This knife is actually one of the best knives I have held and is superior to anything I have held by Cold Steel. Not to mention buy the dvd and take a look at some of their methods.

They do have to promo videos I checked out on yourtube that explained that knife very well.

Thank you for your responce!
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2009, 04:43:30 AM »

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...int=1&page=all
Woman fatally knifes thug in subway attack, then flees on F train

BY Kerry Burke and John Lauinger
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS
Friday, December 25th 2009, 1:33 AM

Several thugs tried to drag a woman off a Queens subway train Thursday night, but she fought back and fatally stabbed one of her tormenters before fleeing on another train, police said. The large group of men - perhaps as many as eight - surrounded the woman outside a chicken restaurant above the 21st St.-Queensbridge station about 9 p.m., police and a witness said.  The harassment, which may have included unwanted sexual advances toward the woman and grabbing, continued as she entered the subway station.  The woman broke free from the men and frantically ran down to the platform and hopped on an F train, with the thugs right behind.

"They tried to physically drag her off the train, but she fights back," one cop said.

The struggle continued as the group pulled her off the train and dragged her up the stairs to the mezzanine level.  At one point, the woman stabbed one of her attackers - identified by family as Thomas Winston, 29 - multiple times in the chest.  The woman then sprinted back down to the platform - with the thugs in hot pursuit, said witness Ricardo Josephs, 41.

"Seven or eight of them were chasing the woman," said Josephs, an MTA employee.  "They all jumped over the turnstiles after her. She got on the Queens [-bound F] train. They tried to grab her; they tried to hold the train - but she got away."

Winston, who lives in a nearby shelter and has a 10-month-old daughter, was pronounced dead at a Manhattan hospital.

The woman was still in the wind Thursday night, police said. One police source said investigators suspect the woman was acting in self-defense.

Winston has numerous prior arrests, including several raps for sale of narcotics, most recently in September.

Winston's aunt, Diane Greenspan, who has custody of his child, was stunned by his death.

"It's terrible, just terrible - on Christmas Eve!" she said, despairingly.

kburke@nydailynews.com
============
Stabbing in Queens Leaves Man Dead, a Girl in Flight and Families in Grief

By A. G. SULZBERGER and KAREEM FAHIM
Published: December 25, 2009
NYTimes/POTH (Note reporter's anme-- this family used to own the NYTimes.  Also note the efforts at moral equivalence)

Erika Brown was waiting for her 16-year-old daughter to return from the chicken and pizza restaurant down the street around 9 p.m. Thursday when a man banged loudly on her door, shouting. Ms. Brown could make out only a few words — her daughter’s name, something about a man, something about a knife. Out her window, she saw a crowd gathered outside the restaurant, the scene lit with the glow of police cars.


 



The painful flood of details followed as Ms. Brown ran to the restaurant. Her daughter Cyan, a high school sophomore, who everyone says looks just like her mother, had apparently been harassed while ordering food, by a group of neighborhood men who later chased her into the subway. One of the men, Thomas Winston, 29, now lay dead on the street, stabbed in the chest.

Hours later, a frightened, tearful Cyan called her older sister, Lynnea Adams, 21, and told her that a man had tried to push himself on her, and that she had pulled out a knife.
“She didn’t mean for that to happen, but at the same time she had to protect herself,” Ms. Adams said Friday.

Several blocks away, Diane Greenspan spent Christmas Eve waiting for her nephew, the father of the 10-month-old baby she was raising, to come by with presents. Instead, she, too, got a call from a distraught relative, who was crying so much it took her a while to understand what he was saying. The nephew, Mr. Winston, an aspiring rapper who has been arrested numerous times on weapons and drug charges, had bled to death outside Big New York Fried Chicken & Pizza, just above the 21st Street-Queensbridge stop on the F train in Queens.

“He said he was on his way, but he never made it,” Ms. Greenspan said Friday, her voice muted with a mix of disbelief and stoicism. “He was a person at the wrong place at the wrong time.”

And so two families who live in public housing projects in Long Island City spent Christmas sorting through tangled accounts of an ugly fight that left a young father dead and a teenage schoolgirl on the run.

A police spokesman said that the events began with a physical confrontation between a woman and a group of six to eight men, and that the group eventually chased the woman onto the subway platform and pulled her off of a Queens-bound F train.

On the platform, the police said, the woman stabbed Mr. Winston in the chest, then fled, possibly getting on a Manhattan-bound F train. As of Friday evening, there had been no arrests, and the weapon had not been recovered; Ms. Brown said the police had not spoken to her or Cyan.

Friends of Mr. Winston’s who said they witnessed the incident, however, said the stabbing took place above ground, and the girl fled into the subway station afterward, trailed by a group of men, who tried to catch her before she jumped on a train.

Lionell Cooper, 36, a rapper who said he had recorded and performed with Mr. Winston, said he watched as Mr. Winston stumbled backward out of the chicken place, tripped over a snowbank and fell, bleeding, into the street. He stood up, fell again to all fours and then crawled a short distance, Mr. Cooper added.
“He collapsed right here,” he said, pointing to blood stains on the street. “I got paper towels from the store and pressed them against his wound,” he added. “He just lost too much blood.”

On Friday morning, Mr. Winston’s friends placed two cardboard boxes marked “R.I.P.” at the spot just above the entrance to the subway station where Mr. Winston had collapsed. As the day progressed, people filled them with candles, most bearing Mr. Winston’s stage name, Black Box. In the morning cold, they talked to each other of sorrow, disbelief and anger.
“I’m not saying he was an angel,” said Waren Davis, 47. “But if he was your friend, he was your friend.”

One woman with swollen eyes placed a candle in the box, then cleaned the trash from the piles of snow on the sidewalk. She poured hot water from coffee cups to wash away some of the blood that still stained the street.

Back at Ms. Greenspan’s first-floor home, while Mr. Winston’s daughter giggled and played, relatives, including Mr. Winston’s grandmother, mourned a life they felt was on the mend after trouble with the law and homelessness. “He was trying to get his life together so he could get his child back,” Ms. Greenspan said.

Several blocks away at Ms. Brown’s fifth-floor apartment, the sorrow was for a young girl’s loss of innocence and the difficult, uncertain road that lay before her. Ms. Brown and Ms. Adams said that Cyan had not had previous problems with the law, and that they did not know why she would have had a knife. They said they knew she must turn herself in, but worried the family would suffer retaliation.
“She’s a young girl,” her sister said. “She’s a child.”

Alain Delaquérière and Sarah Maslin Nir contributed reporting.
========
"Queensbridge station on the F line is also the bus transfer stop for the r110 bus to rikers island, a prison. There are a lot of halfway houses in that area too."
« Last Edit: December 26, 2009, 05:23:14 AM by Crafty_Dog » Logged
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2010, 09:27:13 PM »

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...ers_to_co.html


She's no victim, after all.
A Queens teenager who stabbed a man to death in a subway was facing manslaughter charges Tuesday night after cops said she was to blame in the Christmas Eve fracas.
Cyan Brown, 16, was originally portrayed as a plucky victim who stabbed Thomas Winston, 29, in self-defense after a group of men tried to attack her.
"She was the main aggressor, without a doubt," a police source told The Daily News.
Brown got into a shouting match with Winston after one of her male friends bumped into him on an F train at the 21st St.-Queensbridge station.
Winston, who was with a group of pals, asked the man to apologize, setting off a confrontation that apparently spilled on to the sidewalk in front of a chicken joint.
"You could say excuse me," the slain man said, according to cops.
That's when Brown, who lives in the nearby Queensbridge Houses, got involved in the battle of words.
"She takes over, gets mouthy," the source said.
Moments later, she pulled a knife and stabbed Winston, cops said.
"She reaches in her bag, takes out a weapon, lunges at him and cuts him," the source said.
Winston's friends chased after Brown and tried to drag her off the F train - but she escaped.

Witnesses told cops it appeared the teen was fleeing from a gang of aggressive men.
Brown's mom later told reporters her daughter was protecting herself from the men who tried to fondle her when she stabbed Winston.
Cops also bought the self-defense claim up to a point but after further investigation, they poked holes in that account of the stabbing.
Brown turned herself in for questioning Tuesday afternoon at the 114th Precinct. She is expected to be arraigned today on manslaughter and weapons charges.
"We located an eyewitness to the stabbing," Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne said, adding that the witness picked Brown out of a lineup. "As a result, she has been arrested."

Winston was the father of a baby girl.

He was living in a homeless shelter and he was trying to turn his life around, his family said.

Relatives portrayed him as a peaceful person who never should have been killed on his way to get a subway train.

"When you stab somebody in the heart it should be murder first-degree," said his aunt, Diane Greenspan.

"I hope justice will be served."
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maija
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« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2010, 10:26:19 AM »

The knife definitely used for good here, but surrounded by a debate that leaves me dumbfounded huh -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8451877.stm
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It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
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