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Author Topic: Citizen-Police interactions  (Read 56575 times)
G M
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« Reply #200 on: December 28, 2011, 07:31:45 AM »

Hopefully not a victim of budget cuts.

http://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Police/cpa_application_fall2010.pdf

AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT
CITIZEN POLICE ACADEMY
EST. JANUARY 1987
72 COMPLETED SESSIONS
1,850 GRADUATES
(As of September 2010)
“UNDERSTANDING THROUGH EDUCATION”
The Citizen's Police Academy was established in January 1987.
The Citizen’s Police Academy is a fourteen-week (that includes graduation) program designed to give
the public a working knowledge of the Austin Police Department. Each session consists of fourteen
consecutive Tuesday night classes at City of Austin facilities. The instruction is comprehensive and
each week separate areas of the department are covered.
As of September 7, 2010, 1,850 citizens will have graduated from 72 classes. Classes are hosted
two times a year at APD Headquarters.
• Class 74 Spring of 2011; Evening classes February 15 -May 24 with hours; 5:30p – 9:30 p.
• Class 75 Fall of 2011 Evening classes September 13- December 13 with hours; 5:30p- 9:30p.
Cadet Training, Bomb Squad, Robbery, Homicide, Use of Force, Internal Affairs, Vehicular Homicide,
S.W.A.T., Forensics, Recruiting and meeting the Chief are examples of some of the topics that are
covered. Instruction consists of lectures, demonstrations, tours, and riding with a police officer on a
ten-hour shift.
The slogan of the Citizen’s Police Academy is “Understanding through Education”. The goal is to
educate the public about the Austin Police Department and to increase the rapport between citizens
and police officers.
We hope the graduates of the Citizen’s Police Academy become more aware and better informed
about how the Police Department operates, and will encourage friends, coworkers and families to join
the Austin Police Department in this rewarding program.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is the purpose of conducting a Citizen’s Police Academy?
To give the public information on how the Police Department works and its policies and procedures,
through a series of classes involving instruction by police officers.
Where did the concept originate?
The program originated in Orlando, Florida in 1984. Orlando was the first city in the United States to
start a Citizen’s Police Academy.
What was the Austin Police Department’s incentive for starting a Citizen’s Police
Academy?
We feel the more information the public has about the police department, less fears and
misconceptions will exist.
When does the class meet?
There are three Citizen’s Police Academy sessions per year. Students meet at Austin Police
Department facilities. There will be a total of approximately thirty-nine (45) hours of instruction by
police officers. All classes are free.
Who attends the Citizen’s Police Academy?
Students range from 18 years of age and above. We have architects, bankers, homemakers,
students, retirees, teachers, neighborhood groups and professionals attending the classes.
How do you apply?
You must be at least 18 years old and live or work in the Austin area. Complete the Citizen’s
Police Academy application and mail it to the address below. If you have any questions or need more
information, call SPO Dennis Farris, at (512) 974-5941
When are classes?
The Citizens Police Academy is offered three times a year at APD Headquarters.
You can choose from the following:
• Class 74 Spring of 2011; Evening classes February 15 -May 24 with hours; 5:30p – 9:30 p.
• Class 75 Fall of 2011 Evening classes September 13- December 13 with hours; 5:30p- 9:30p.
Mailing Address:
SPO Dennis Farris
Citizen’s Police Academy
P.O. 689001
Austin, Texas 78768-9001
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bigdog
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« Reply #201 on: January 01, 2012, 06:54:35 PM »

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/01/9875731-ranger-fatally-shot-at-mount-rainier-national-park
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #202 on: January 02, 2012, 07:48:21 AM »

* Contempt of Cop: Verbal Challenges, Disrespect, Arrests, and the First Amendment

Under what circumstances, if at all, can police officers arrest citizens for "contempt of cop," verbal challenges, profanity, or disrespect? Under what circumstances is criticism of police, even if couched in abusive or profane terms, constitutionally protected free speech?

View at http://www.aele.org/law/2011-10MLJ101.html
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #203 on: January 02, 2012, 07:53:13 AM »

Second post of morning

*** Law Enforcement Liability Reporter ***

* Baton and O.C.

An officer's use of pepper spray and a baton against a motorist who disobeyed orders to get back in his vehicle was an "intermediate" use of force that "while less severe than deadly force, nonetheless present a significant intrusion upon an individual's liberty interests." The motorist did not resist, but merely sat on the curb, so he could proceed with his excessive force claim. Young v. County of Los Angeles, #09-56372, 2011 U.S. App. Lexis 17829 (9th Cir.).

View at http://courtlistener.com/ca9/4987/mark-young-v-county-of-los-angeles/

* Weapon confusion

A police officer who claimed that she intended to use her Taser on a handcuffed detainee, but instead shot him in the chest with a semiautomatic pistol, was not entitled to qualified immunity in a lawsuit over his death.

A jury could also possibly find the officer's mistake reasonable, but the trial court should not have reached that conclusion on summary judgment. Torres v. City of Madera, #09-16573, 2011 U.S. App. Lexis 17459 (9th Cir.).

View at http://courtlistener.com/ca9/29v9/maria-torres-v-city-of-madera/

*** Fire, Police & Corrections Personnel Reporter ***

* Retaliatory Personnel Actions

A jury awarded a total of $10 million in damages to three Caucasian officers who allegedly faced retaliatory actions because they opposed discriminatory treatment of minority officers. The trial court reduced the damage awards to $300,000 per plaintiff. A review board hearing did not absolve the city of liability for the supervisor's retaliatory actions. McKenna v. City of Philadelphia, #09-3567, 2011 U.S. App. Lexis 17199 (3rd Cir.).

View at http://courtlistener.com/ca3/29q5/michael-mckenna-v-city-of-philadelphia/

View at

*** Jail and Prisoner Law Bulletin ***

* Medical care

An HIV-positive prisoner who allegedly did not receive his medication during a 167-day period of incarceration at a county jail stated a viable claim for liability against a jail employee who allegedly said that "we don't give away" HIV medications "here at this jail." Leavitt v. Correctional Medical Services, Inc., #10-1432, 2011 U.S. App. Lexis 13269 (1st Cir.).

View at http://courtlistener.com/ca1/28oV/leavitt-v-correctional-medical-services/

* Transsexual inmates

A Wisconsin state statute that flatly prohibits providing hormone therapy or sex reassignment surgery to transsexual prisoners regardless of their medical needs is in violation of the Eighth Amendment.  "Refusing to provide effective treatment for a serious medical condition serves no valid penological purpose and amounts to torture." Fields v. Smith, #10-2339, 2011 U.S. App. Lexis 16152 (7th Cir.).

View at http://courtlistener.com/ca7/29be/andrea-fields-v-judy-smith/

3. Selected criminal law and procedure cases are at another free website.

View at http://www.kenwallentine.com/Xiphos.html

You are welcome to forward this information; please encourage your colleagues to sign up for periodic mailings at http://www.aele.org/e-signup.html  We don't insert commercial messages or sell your e-addresses.


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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #204 on: January 05, 2012, 10:46:29 AM »

http://www.policeone.com/close-quarters-combat/articles/4923231-Video-of-attack-on-Md-cop-goes-viral/
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 06:18:47 PM by Crafty_Dog » Logged
bigdog
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« Reply #205 on: January 05, 2012, 06:10:58 PM »

Death threat for LEOs after shooting armed student:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/05/9978619-texas-police-receive-death-threats-after-shooting-teen
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prentice crawford
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« Reply #206 on: January 06, 2012, 06:00:47 PM »

Woof,
 Brave little lady here boys.

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8xM_PiWZN-E?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

                                             P.C.
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JDN
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Posts: 2004


« Reply #207 on: February 11, 2012, 09:14:15 AM »

"Sgt. Manuel Loggins Jr. was shot early Tuesday as he started to get into the SUV where his two daughters -- 9 and 14.

Amormino said Loggins was not armed and that it doesn’t appear the incident was alcohol- or drug-related.

A former commanding officer said Loggins routinely went to the school with his daughters during the early-morning hours to walk the track and read the Bible."

What did he do to deserve to be shot dead?



http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/02/marine-shot-.html

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G M
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Posts: 12069


« Reply #208 on: February 11, 2012, 10:18:52 AM »

"Sgt. Manuel Loggins Jr. was shot early Tuesday as he started to get into the SUV where his two daughters -- 9 and 14.

Amormino said Loggins was not armed and that it doesn’t appear the incident was alcohol- or drug-related.

A former commanding officer said Loggins routinely went to the school with his daughters during the early-morning hours to walk the track and read the Bible."

What did he do to deserve to be shot dead?



http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/02/marine-shot-.html



I don't know, but I'm sure that won't stop you from some ignorant speculation.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #209 on: February 14, 2012, 02:41:54 PM »

I don't know if the many URLs embedded as citations for the assertions in this email to me will reproduce here:

February 13, 2012 by Bob Livingston 
 
PHOTOS.COM
Many, if not most, patrol cars now carry dashcams.
Law-abiding citizens are no longer safe from police. Once the motto for police officers was “To protect and serve,” but now it seems to be “To harass, assault and attack.”
Across the country, police officers are increasingly militarized and increasingly militant. They make up laws out of thin air, claiming that innocuous activities like watching or videotaping police activities — including arrests on public streets,  walking in certain neighborhoods, parking on certain streets and putting trash in trash cans — are crimes.
While the vilest offenders are SWAT teams, even regular patrol officers become violent at the least provocation. Thanks to YouTube and similar content-sharing sites, more of these incidents are coming to light. However, capturing video of these incidents has put the videographer at risk from the police, who often unlawfully and forcibly take the phone or camera and erase its contents or remove its memory card. It’s not unusual for the videographer to be roughed up and/or threatened with arrest in the process. A list of recent incidences of police brutality and other police misconduct can be read at Injustice Everywhere.
Cops have come to think of themselves as gods above the law whose commands are to be obeyed immediately and without question. Any hesitation often leads to the “suspect” being left bleeding and broken or quivering from electricity introduced by a TASER. It doesn’t matter if the person was unable to understand the command because of a language barrier, or if the person was unable to comply due to disability or defect. Officers expect immediate and complete compliance with no questions asked.
They are shooting dogs for barking, Tasing (see here and here) and pepper spraying children in schools and shooting wheelchair-bound men in the streets. They apparently feel they operate above the law.
Many, if not most, patrol cars now carry dash cams. Sometimes, dash cam videos are preserved, which allows abused citizens — if they are persistent and dogged enough — to get justice and restitution occasionally. Such was the case shown here, where the officer threatened to shoot a suspect in the head for not revealing he had a concealed weapon in the car. Often, though, the dash cam video mysteriously disappears before trial.
According to a report by the CATO Institute, tens of thousands of raids are conducted by SWAT teams each year. The report claimed:
These increasingly frequent raids, 40,000 per year by one estimate, are needlessly subjecting nonviolent drug offenders, bystanders, and wrongly targeted civilians to the terror of having their homes invaded while they’re sleeping, usually by teams of heavily armed paramilitary units dressed not as police officers but as soldiers. These raids bring unnecessary violence and provocation to nonviolent drug offenders, many of whom were guilty of only misdemeanors. The raids terrorize innocents when police mistakenly target the wrong residence. And they have resulted in dozens of needless deaths and injuries, not only of drug offenders, but also of police officers, children, bystanders, and innocent suspects.
The so-called War on Drugs is undoubtedly the casus belli for the increased militarization of the police. SWAT officers are armed and armored as well as, if not better than, soldiers. Drug task forces receive Federal funding to purchase assault weapons, armor and armored vehicles to use in drug raids. They no longer serve warrants by knocking on doors or by picking up suspects on the streets. Instead, they bash down doors or use chain saws to gain entry.
SWAT teams argue their safety requires they swarm into homes. But that doesn’t negate the fact that they create an explosive situation that often leads to innocent people being harmed or killed. Sadly, they often force their way into the wrong residence.
The instance in Tucson, Ariz., in which Iraq veteran Jose Guerena was shot 60 times by SWAT officers in his home is prima facie evidence of the danger these situations create.
In the early morning hours Guerena’s wife, Vanessa, saw a man pointing a gun at her through the window. She awakened her husband, who was asleep after working the night shift. Thinking a home invasion was in progress, Guerena told his wife to get into a closet and grabbed his gun.
The SWAT team forced open the door and opened fire on Guerena, then stood by and watched him bleed for an hour before letting paramedics treat him. By then, he was dead. SWAT officers then lied about who shot first. The safety was still on Guerena’s gun, indicating he never fired. Nothing illegal was found in Guerena’s home.
It is grounded in conservative American psyche to defend oneself and one’s home. Yet responding to an unannounced and violent intrusion by police will leave you as dead as it left Guerena.
And even if you aren’t shot dead, the police have no qualms about destroying your residence. They claim it is police procedure to gas the house, tear up floor boards, kick in doors and walls, and strew contents of cabinets and furniture to the winds. Requests for compensation are ignored, even if nothing was ever found.
But it’s not just suspected drug dealers who feel the wrath of police officers. Just ask Marianne Godboldo of Detroit. Police thugs forcibly removed her daughter for the crime of Godboldo not giving her daughter a pill prescribed by a physician.
Most people dismiss claims of an increasingly violent and aggressive police force as either conspiracy theory or sour grapes by criminals. Minorities have long seen their claims of police brutality dismissed out of hand by white America. Many people naively believe that if they don’t commit a crime, they won’t have anything to worry about from police. But it’s high time that people see this for what it is and connect the dots on the news stories of today.
Congress has just authorized having as many as 30,000 unmanned drones patrolling the U.S. skies. The FBI and Department of Homeland Security are greatly expanding the definition of extremist and terrorist to include people performing normal activities or objecting to paying taxes. The USA Patriot Act and the National Defense Authorization Act have given government carte blanche to detain Americans without charge and without trial and ship them to the Guantanamo Bay prison resort.
In a series of debates on socialism in 1914, John Basil Barnhill said, “Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty.” The government fears the people and the coming conflagration it has sparked. By tightening its grasp on liberty through the militarization of the police force, the pendulum is swinging to where the people are now beginning to fear their government.
Where this will lead is anybody’s guess, but I predict it won’t be pretty.


--
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free -- Goethe
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JDN
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« Reply #210 on: February 15, 2012, 12:16:28 AM »

http://www.wbaltv.com/r/30451217/detail.html
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JDN
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« Reply #211 on: February 17, 2012, 10:08:30 AM »

http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2012/02/subaru-portland-couple-arrested-valentines-day.html
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #212 on: February 17, 2012, 11:01:14 AM »

Please make use of the subject line so as to faciliate Search commands and please put in a sentence or three describing the contents to help people decide whether they want to click on it.

TIA
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JDN
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« Reply #213 on: February 17, 2012, 11:16:17 AM »

I usually do; note my previous post subject line "Citizen's right to record".

But this post was more for entertainment.   smiley  I doubt if anyone will be doing research on the subject.   smiley

That said, I will always try to summarize; I agree it really does help.
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prentice crawford
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« Reply #214 on: February 17, 2012, 10:18:12 PM »

By BRIAN SKOLOFF, PAUL FOY
 
updated 2/17/2012 3:06:00 PM ET 2012-02-17T20:06:00
Print Font: +-SALT LAKE CITY — He's eluded authorities for more than five years, a mountain man who roams the wilderness of southern Utah, breaking into remote cabins in winter, living in luxury off hot food, alcohol and coffee before stealing provisions and vanishing into the woods.

Investigators have clawed for clues, scouring cabins for fingerprints that match no one and chasing reports of brief encounters only to come up short, always a step behind the mysterious recluse.

They've found abandoned camps, dozens of guns, high-end outdoor gear stolen from the homes and trash strewn around the forest floor.

But the man authorities say is armed and dangerous and responsible for more than two dozen burglaries has continued to outrun the law across a swath of mountains not far from Zion National Park. He's roamed across 1,000 square miles of rugged wilderness where snow can pile 10 feet deep in winter.

And while there have been no violent confrontations, detectives say he's a time bomb. Lately he has been leaving the cabins in disarray and riddled with bullets after defacing religious icons, and a recent note left behind in one cabin warned, "Get off my mountain."

"You wouldn't want to come across that guy," said Iron County Det. Jody Edwards, who has been working the case since 2007.

Theories about his identity have ranged from two separate men on the FBI's Most Wanted List — one sought for the 2004 killing of an armored-truck guard in Phoenix, another for killing his wife and two children in Arizona. Some have also speculated the man may be a castaway from the nearby compounds of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the polygamous sect run by jailed leader Warren Jeffs.


 AP
This undated photo provided by the Iron County Sheriff's Office shows a remote camp littered with supplies and trash in the southern Utah wildness near Zion National Park. Authorities believe the camp was left behind by a suspect in more than two dozen burglaries of mountain cabins over an area of roughly 1,000 square miles for the past five years.
 
The FBI recently discounted the theory that the man was the fugitive sought in the armored-truck guard killing after authorities got the first pictures of him from a motion-triggered surveillance camera outside a cabin. The photos showing a sandy-haired man in camouflage on snowshoes, a rifle slung over his shoulder, were taken sometime in December.

"We believe that is not Jason Derek Brown," FBI special agent Manuel Johnson told The Associated Press.

Edwards wasn't so quick to rule out the possibility, given the close resemblance to the 42-year-old Brown, who was raised Mormon and is a highly educated, well-traveled avid outdoorsman.

Johnson said the FBI has considered the possibility that the cabin burglar may be Robert William Fisher, described as a survivalist, hunter and angler who authorities say killed his family then blew up their house in Scottsdale, Ariz., in 2001. However, at 50 years old, Johnson is doubtful it's the man in the surveillance photos, who appears much younger.

..So while detectives believe they are getting close, buoyed by the recent photos, the shadowy survivalist remains an enigma. No missing person report appears to fit, and fingerprints lifted from cabins have yielded no match.

'I don't think this guy is normal'
Meanwhile, cabin owners are growing more frightened by the day and are left wondering who might be sleeping in their beds this winter.

"He's scaring the daylights out of cabin owners. Now everyone's packing guns," said Jud Hendrickson, a 62-year-old mortgage advisor from nearby St. George who keeps a trailer in the area.

In November 2010, Bruce Stucki, another cabin owner, said a burglar broke into his cabin through a narrow window, pried open a gun case with a crowbar and laid out the weapons but took none. At a nearby cabin, the man reportedly took only the grips from gun handles.

"He could stand in the trees and pop you off and no one would know who killed you," Stucki said.

Some cabins he has left tidy and clean, while others he has practically destroyed, even defecating in one in a pan on the floor.

"He should know he's being followed, but I don't think this guy is normal in any way," said Stucki, who, like many cabin owners, has a lot of his own theories.

"He's anti-religious, waiting for the mothership to come in," Stucki speculated.

.Investigators say they have found several of the man's unattended summer camps, what they initially thought were left behind by "doomsday" believers preparing for some sort of apocalypse because of the remote locations and supplies like weapons, radios, batteries, dehydrated food and camping gear.

Stocked with guns
Edwards said two camps found a few years ago were stocked with 19 guns. One of the camps also had a copy of Jon Krakauer's "Into the Wild," a book about a young man who died after wandering into the Alaskan wilderness to live alone off the land.

The cabin burglar has managed to avoid being seen all but twice over the years, each time retreating into the forest.

In recent weeks, it took detectives an entire day to reach a remote cabin after getting a report that lights had been seen on inside overnight. It turned out they were solar-powered lights on the porch, and the cabin was empty — another dead-end.

The coffee and alcohol the survivalist favors plays into some cabin owners' assessment that he could be a castaway from the nearby twin towns of Hildale or Colorado City on the Utah-Arizona border. The so-called lost boys are said to be regularly booted from the polygamous sect there by elders looking to increase their marriage opportunities with young women.

Unlike members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which discourages consumption of alcohol and coffee, many of the Mormon fundamentalists imbibe.

Detectives aren't sharing their latest assessments but "we've got a lot of leads" from the surveillance photos, Edwards said. "I would say we're very close to making a positive ID on him. We just got to catch this guy."

To cabin owners in southern Utah, he remains a spooky and menacing figure.

"We feel like we're being subject to terrorism by this guy," Hendrickson said. "My wife says flat-out she's not going back to our trailer until they catch him."

                                                          P.c.
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JDN
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« Reply #215 on: February 18, 2012, 07:23:49 PM »

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-marine-shot-20120218,0,1108296.story
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #216 on: March 27, 2012, 06:48:45 PM »

stopthedrugwar.org

Very odd that no traces of marijuana were found in his system.

============================================

Michigan Father Killed in Marijuana Child Removal Incident
Post to:TwitterFacebookDiggStumbleUponRedditby Phillip Smith, March 24, 2012, 04:30pm
 
Posted in: 2012 Drug War Killings, Families, Marijuana -- Personal Use, News Brief, Police-Community Tensions, Police/Suspect Altercations
A prosecutor in northern Michigan has cleared the police officer who shot and killed a Grayling man as police and Child Protective Services (CPS) employees attempted to seize his three-year-old. The attempted removal of the minor child came after a police officer who came to the scene on a call earlier that same day reported that he smelled marijuana and reported the incident to CPS authorities, who decided the child needed to be removed. The dead man, William Reddie, 32, becomes the 17th person killed in US domestic drug law enforcement operations so far this year.




William Reddie [Editor's Note: This case illustrates the difficulties that arise in determining which deaths qualify as being a direct result of drug law enforcement. Police here were enforcing child protections laws, not drug laws, but the only reason CPS was called in was because of the allegation of marijuana use. There was no allegation of crazed behavior due to marijuana use; only the allegation of use. For Michigan CPS authorities, that was enough to remove the child. Bottom line: This guy died because the state tried to take his kid because he was accused of smoking pot, so he merits inclusion. That doesn't mean his own actions didn't contribute to his death.]

Reddie's killing took place on February 3, but we only became aware of it when news broke this week that prosecutors had decided that the police officer's use of deadly force in the incident was justified.

According to the Crawford County Avalanche, Grayling police Officer Alan Somero was called to Reddie's apartment for an alleged domestic disturbance. Somero made no arrests, but believed he smelled marijuana and reported it to CPS. Two CPS employees went to Reddie's apartment to check on the situation. They then got a court order to remove Reddie's 3-year-old son, Cameron, and asked police to escort them to the apartment to serve the court order.

The Gaylord Herald-Times, which obtained the CPS removal order, added more detail. It reported that Reddie had been accused of smoking marijuana in front of his son, and that Reddie had become "agitated" and threatened police when confronted by that accusation earlier in the day.

The court order gave the following reason for removing the child: “There are reasonable grounds for this court to remove the child(ren) from the parent ... because conditions or surroundings of the child(ren), and is contrary to the welfare of the child(ren) to remain in the home because: It is alleged that the father used marijuana in the home in the presence of the child. In addition, there is concern for the safety of the child due to a domestic disturbance and threats made toward law enforcement by the father.”

Returning to the Avalanche's narrative, when police and CPS workers arrived to seize the child, Reddie then reportedly displayed a pcoketknife and lunged at them. Crawford County Deputy John Klepadlo shot and killed him. Police had been deploying Tasers, but holstered them and grabbed their guns when Reddie displayed the knife.

Crawford County Sheriff Kirk Wakefield then asked the Michigan State Police to investigate his deputy's use of deadly force. The Michigan Attorney General's Office referred the case to the neighboring Roscommon County Prosecutor's Office. After receiving a report from the State Police, Roscommon County DA Mark Jernigan determined that the use of deadly force was justified and that Klepadlo would not be charged with any crime.

"The deceased was in possession of an edged weapon," Jernigan said. "The deceased pulled a knife and hid it behind his back. At the point where he pulls his hand forward and lunges at the officer, he is in such close proximity, and presents a clear danger of deadly force, the officer is left with no option other than to use deadly force to protect himself, the other officer and the three civilians that were present. The use of deadly force is completely justified and therefore, the homicide was justified."

Toxicology reports, which were included in the final investigation, showed there was no marijuana or alcohol in Reddie's system when he was killed.

Reddie had been seeking permanent custody of his son and was due in court for a hearing on that matter three days after he was killed.

"They took the only thing he ever loved," Reddie's mother, Michelle VanBuren, told the Avalanche after the prosecutor's announcement.

VanBuren said she was baffled by the conduct of authorities, especially since no evidence or alcohol or marijuana use was found. She said she had been in contact with her son throughout that day.

"I was on the phone with my son all day, and that cop was bullying him and harassing him so badly," she said. "Where was protect and serve?" VanBuren asked. "The officers always have to stick together and for them to do this is just totally uncalled for."

VanBuren said the family would continue to fight to ensure that CPS and law enforcement are held accountable for their actions. "They need to be held accountable and they will be held accountable believe you me," she said.

Reddie's family is not alone in questioning police and CPS actions. “I can’t believe they (police) could not subdue Will without killing him, and over what, marijuana,” said Joanne Michal, who knew Reddie for half of his life. “Why didn’t police just arrest him or cite him for marijuana instead of removing his child?” she told the Herald-Times.

“It is particularly sad that Will was shot to death right in front of his son,” Michal continued. “Why not use a Taser? Even if he (Will) had a knife and lunged at police, they didn’t have to kill him. Instead of using a Taser, you shoot him in front of his child. It is just totally unjustified. They didn’t have to kill him. I think it’s very sad that his life was taken during the removal of his son. And the smell of marijuana shouldn’t have been a reason for an emergency order. Just a few days before he was killed, Will was visiting, and he was so excited because a hearing was coming up for custody. And it seemed to give him hope of getting permanent custody. His son was everything to him.”

Crawford County Clerk Sandra Moore said she also knew Reddie. “It’s truly a shame,”Moore said. “He was a good guy and very fond of his son. He had been very excited just days before” about gaining permanent custody.

Cameron Reddie is now in foster care. His father's family is seeking visitation rights.

Meanwhile, Deputy Klepadlo, who had been on administrative leave after the shooting, is back on the job.

Grayling, MI
United States
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G M
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« Reply #217 on: March 27, 2012, 07:22:50 PM »

I'm reminded of a traffic stop where a DUI suspect tried pulling a knife from concealment and narrowly avoided getting shot. Would that have been a casualty of the war on drunk driving?

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« Reply #218 on: March 27, 2012, 10:58:24 PM »

Very odd that the man had no traces of marijuana when that was the foundation of taking his son away from him , , ,  Instead you offer a  , , , very predictable response.
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« Reply #219 on: March 27, 2012, 11:11:42 PM »

Very odd that the man had no traces of marijuana when that was the foundation of taking his son away from him , , ,  Instead you offer a  , , , very predictable response.

Predictable, as in pointing out the flaw in the post decrying the "war on drugs"?

He got shot, not because of marijuana or the lack thereof, but by threatening officers with deadly force.

So, again, if a subject was shot after being stopped for DUI, would that be a casualty of the "war on drunk driving" ?

If then, is the answer to legalize drunk driving?
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« Reply #220 on: March 28, 2012, 10:14:58 AM »

Forgive me, but I think you are missing my point.

They say they are taking the man's child away because he smoked pot in front of the child, yet there are no traces of pot in his system.  As both of us know, pot takes months to clear out of someone's system, so how can this be?

Does this not strike you as very odd?

Furthermore, it is hard to think of something more emotionally explosive than taking a child away from a parent.  Imaging the thought for either of my children and me, (especially when there has been serious litigation and I would be the only parent!) and my heart gets to racing.  Of course I get your point, but it sure is hard to keep from wondering if things could have been handled better. 

Do you have no tears for the tragedy here?
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« Reply #221 on: March 28, 2012, 08:13:04 PM »

Forgive me, but I think you are missing my point.

They say they are taking the man's child away because he smoked pot in front of the child, yet there are no traces of pot in his system.  As both of us know, pot takes months to clear out of someone's system, so how can this be?

Does this not strike you as very odd?


[b**]"The attempted removal of the minor child came after a police officer who came to the scene on a call earlier that same day reported that he smelled marijuana and reported the incident to CPS authorities, who decided the child needed to be removed."

So, reading the line from above, I'm guessing there was an odor that the officer detected from the residence. Perhaps the source wasn't the father in the case, but another person in the residence at the time. [/b]

Furthermore, it is hard to think of something more emotionally explosive than taking a child away from a parent.  Imaging the thought for either of my children and me, (especially when there has been serious litigation and I would be the only parent!) and my heart gets to racing.  Of course I get your point, but it sure is hard to keep from wondering if things could have been handled better. 

*It's very explosive and I've done standbys while children were removed by court order for abuse/neglect. I've seen children who lived like feral children in homes with no food and weeks of tears marked on the embedded dirt on their faces who still screamed and fought to stay with the parents who beat and starved them. I've done many joint investigations with what I call "social circuses", and found very few who I had much respect for as professionals. Many mean well, but know nothing about conducting a fair and impartial investigations. "Social Circuses" seems to wreak havok on decent parents while letting real abuse cases slide through the cracks at the same time. I had a role in a case where an abusive father under the supervision of "Socialist Workers" murdered his 8 year old daughter by cutting her throat ear to ear. So, yes I grasp the gravity of such things.

Do you have no tears for the tragedy here?

Sure. I wish it hadn't played out that way. I'll bet that deputy wishes the same thing. I've pointed guns at people for real and I'm glad circumstances haven't required me to press the trigger thus far, though I've been on the razor's edge of doing so more than once. Though if someone brings out a knife, it will be a gunfight in very short order becuse I understand quite well the potential lethality in any edged weapon.
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« Reply #222 on: March 28, 2012, 09:35:40 PM »



They say they are taking the man's child away because he smoked pot in front of the child, yet there are no traces of pot in his system.  As both of us know, pot takes months to clear out of someone's system, so how can this be?

Does this not strike you as very odd?

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« Reply #223 on: March 28, 2012, 09:38:17 PM »



They say they are taking the man's child away because he smoked pot in front of the child, yet there are no traces of pot in his system.  As both of us know, pot takes months to clear out of someone's system, so how can this be?

Does this not strike you as very odd?


"The attempted removal of the minor child came after a police officer who came to the scene on a call earlier that same day reported that he smelled marijuana and reported the incident to CPS authorities, who decided the child needed to be removed."

So, reading the line from above, I'm guessing there was an odor that the officer detected from the residence. Perhaps the source wasn't the father in the case, but another person in the residence at the time.

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« Reply #224 on: March 28, 2012, 09:50:05 PM »

In my experience, and related to my state's laws, I can't imagine that marijuana use alone would justify removing a child from a home. As far as Michigan, I don't know. In my state, "social workers" have no legal authority to remove a child and if a peace officer does so it's reviewed by a judge. Generally, the officer will seek an emergency protection order from a judge when he/she reasonable believes that a child is in immediate and present danger.
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« Reply #225 on: March 28, 2012, 11:03:07 PM »

FWIW lets review the relevant passage of my original post on this matter:

"There was no allegation of crazed behavior due to marijuana use; only the allegation of use. For Michigan CPS authorities, that was enough to remove the child. Bottom line: This guy died because the state tried to take his kid because he was accused of smoking pot, so he merits inclusion. That doesn't mean his own actions didn't contribute to his death.]

, , ,

"According to the Crawford County Avalanche, Grayling police Officer Alan Somero was called to Reddie's apartment for an alleged domestic disturbance. Somero made no arrests, but believed he smelled marijuana and reported it to CPS. Two CPS employees went to Reddie's apartment to check on the situation. They then got a court order to remove Reddie's 3-year-old son, Cameron, and asked police to escort them to the apartment to serve the court order.

"The Gaylord Herald-Times, which obtained the CPS removal order, added more detail. It reported that Reddie had been accused of smoking marijuana in front of his son, and that Reddie had become "agitated" and threatened police when confronted by that accusation earlier in the day.

MARC:  Accused by whom?  The mother who was losing the custody battle?  I too would become agitated at a false (remember, when tested he came up clean) accusation of pot as a basis for taking away my child!!!  I'm guessing that he might have guessed the mother was behind it too , , ,

The court order gave the following reason for removing the child: “There are reasonable grounds for this court to remove the child(ren) from the parent ... because conditions or surroundings of the child(ren), and is contrary to the welfare of the child(ren) to remain in the home because: It is alleged that the father used marijuana in the home in the presence of the child. In addition, there is concern for the safety of the child due to a domestic disturbance (OK, but is it standard practice to remove children for domestic disturbance calls?) and threats made toward law enforcement by the father.”

MARC:  Without knowing more we don't , , , know more, but it occurs to me a passionate statement in the emotion of the moment could have been made.  Some people might make allowance.

Returning to the Avalanche's narrative, when police and CPS workers arrived to seize the child, Reddie then reportedly displayed a pcoketknife and lunged at them. Crawford County Deputy John Klepadlo shot and killed him. Police had been deploying Tasers, but holstered them and grabbed their guns when Reddie displayed the knife.

MARC:  I've been tased, so I feel entitled to an opinion here.  "Police had been deploying tasers (plural!) and HOLSTERED them (THEN) grabbed their guns"   This strikes me as quite odd.  One taser, let alone multiple tasers (2? 3? or?) should be enough to stop someone long enough for a team of police to keep themselves safe and effectuate an arrest!!!  If they had the time to holster their tasers and draw their guns, then they would seem to have more time than a mad bum rush by the now deceased father.
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« Reply #226 on: March 28, 2012, 11:26:22 PM »

MARC:  I've been tased, so I feel entitled to an opinion here.  "Police had been deploying tasers (plural!) and HOLSTERED them (THEN) grabbed their guns"   This strikes me as quite odd.  One taser, let alone multiple tasers (2? 3? or?) should be enough to stop someone long enough for a team of police to keep themselves safe and effectuate an arrest!!!  If they had the time to holster their tasers and draw their guns, then they would seem to have more time than a mad bum rush by the now deceased father.

Graham V. Connor is the ultimate standard for police use of force, I can tell you that tasers are NOT appropriate when facing a deadly force threat, which a knife certainly is. Tasers are not phasers from Star Trek and a motivated person w/ a knife can render you maimed or dead in seconds, imagine what a highly trained person can do.
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« Reply #227 on: March 28, 2012, 11:44:35 PM »

http://www.policeone.com/news_internal.asp?view=113907

In Part 1 of this special series we reported on how the 21-Foot Rule, one of the core training components of edged-weapon defense, stands up when assessed against landmark findings about action-reaction times documented by the Force Science Research Center at Minnesota State University-Mankato. We explained:
 
1. Because of misinterpretation, the 21-Foot Rule has been dangerously corrupted, but
 
2. When properly understood, the Rule is still valid in certain circumstances.

Now in this final installment of our 2-part series we discuss additional conclusions regarding edged-weapon defense, namely:
 
3. For many officers and situations, a 21-foot reactionary gap is not sufficient.
 
4. Weapons that officers often think they can depend on to defeat knife attacks can't be relied upon to protect them in many cases.

 
5. Training in edged-weapon defense should by no means be abandoned.
 
Here's what FSRC's executive director and selected members of the Center's National and Technical Advisory Boards have to say on these topics:
 
3. MORE DISTANCE. "In reality, the 21-Foot Rule--by itself--may not provide officers with an adequate margin of protection," says Dr. Bill Lewinski, FSRC's executive director. "It's easily possible for suspects in some circumstances to launch a successful fatal attack from a distance greater than 21 feet."

Among other police instructors, John Delgado, retired training officer for the Miami-Dade (FL) PD, has extended the 21-Foot Rule to 30 feet. "Twenty-one feet doesn't really give many officers time to get their gun out and fire accurately," he says. "Higher-security holsters complicate the situation, for one thing. Some manufacturers recommend 3,000 pulls to develop proficiency with a holster. Most cops don't do that, so it takes them longer to get their gun out than what's ideal. Also shooting proficiency tends to deteriorate under stress. Their initial rounds may not even hit."

Beyond that, there's the well-established fact that a suspect often can keep going from momentum, adrenalin, chemicals and sheer determination, even after being shot. "Experience informs us that people who are shot with a handgun do not fall down instantly nor does the energy of a handgun round stop their forward movement," states Chris Lawrence, team leader of DT training at the Ontario (Canada) Police College and an FSRC Technical Advisory Board member. Says Lewinski: "Certain arterial or spinal hits may drop an attacker instantly. But otherwise a wounded but committed suspect may have the capacity to continue on to the officer's location and complete his deadly intentions."

That's one reason why tactical distractions, which we'll discuss in a moment, should play an important role in defeating an edged-weapon attack, even when you are able to shoot to defend yourself.
 
"When working with bare-minimum margins, any delay in an officer responding to a deadly threat can equate to injury or death," reinforces attorney and use-of-force trainer Bill Everett, an FSRC National Advisory Board member. "So the officer must key his or her reaction to the first overt act indicating that a lethal attack is coming.
 
"More distance and time give the officer not only more tactical options but also more opportunity to confirm the attacker's lethal intention before selecting a deadly force response."
 
4. MISPLACED CONFIDENCE. Relying on OC or a Taser for defeating a charging suspect is probably a serious mistake. Gary Klugiewicz, a leading edged-weapon instructor and a member of FSRC's National Advisory Board, points out that firing out Taser barbs may be an effective option in dealing with a threatening but STATIONARY subject. But depending on this force choice to stop a charging suspect could be disastrous.

With fast, on-rushing movement, "there's a real chance of not hitting the subject effectively and of not having sufficient time" for the electrical charge--or for a blast of OC--to take effect before he is on you, Klugiewicz says.

Lewinski agrees, adding: "A rapid charge at an officer is a common characteristic of someone high on chemicals or severely emotionally disturbed. More research is needed, but it appears that when a Taser isn't effective it is most often with these types of suspects."
 
Smug remarks about offenders foolishly "bringing a knife to a gunfight" betray dangerous thinking about the ultimate force option, too. Some officers are cockily confident they'll defeat any sharp-edged threat because they carry a superior weapon: their service sidearm. This belief may be subtly reinforced by fixating on distances of 21 or 30 feet, as if this is the typical reaction space you'll have in an edged-weapon encounter.
 
The truth is that where edged-weapon attacks are concerned, "close-up confrontations are actually the norm," points out Sgt. Craig Stapp, a firearms trainer with the Tempe (AZ) P.D. and a member of FSRC's Technical Advisory Board. "A suspect who knows how to effectively deploy a knife can be extremely dangerous in these circumstances. Even those who are not highly trained can be deadly, given the close proximity of the contact, the injury knives are capable of, and the time it takes officers to process and react to an assault.

"At close distances, standing still and drawing are usually not the best tactics to employ and may not even be possible." At a distance of 10 feet, a subject is less than half a second away from making the first cut on an officer, Lewinski's research shows. Therefore, rather than relying on a holstered gun, officers must be trained in hands-on techniques to deflect or delay the use of the knife, to control it and/or to remove it from the attacker's grasp, or to buy time to get their gun out. These methods have to be simple enough to be learned by the average officer.

**Use techniques to "Die less often", to use a phrase I've heard before.
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« Reply #228 on: March 28, 2012, 11:58:43 PM »

In addition, there is concern for the safety of the child due to a domestic disturbance (OK, but is it standard practice to remove children for domestic disturbance calls?) and threats made toward law enforcement by the father.”

It can be, and a judge issued an order to remove the child. What more do you want when you have a court order? It appears that a judge found there it was reasonable to remove the child and if the father wished, he could have pursued this issue in court. It's a temporary order and these days, it's damn near impossible to terminate parential rights for almost any reason, including parents who have raped their children and been convicted for the sexual abuse in criminal court.
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« Reply #229 on: March 29, 2012, 12:24:18 AM »

http://www.dailymercury.com.au/story/2011/10/04/taser-fails-on-aggressive-patron/

Taser fails on aggressive patron
 

Melissa Grant | 4th October 2011 12:00 AM


POLICE thought deploying a taser gun at Matthew Bierton's chest would be enough to stop him behaving in a threatening manner, but they were wrong.
 
The two officers would have realised this when Bierton said: "Is that the best you (expletives) have got?"
 
Bierton said he didn't feel anything when a police officer tasered him at a Slade Point tavern on May 12. The 33-year-old was tasered because he behaved in a threatening manner towards police when they tried to question him about a domestic dispute at a Slade Point residence.
 
Prosecutor Constable Janelle Young said police went to a tavern on Pacific Esplanade to talk to Bierton about the dispute in which he damaged a vehicle. When they approached him he told them to "(expletive) off".
 
At this point, Bierton turned around on the bar stool and stood up.
 
He adopted a fighting stance and because there was glass nearby one officer produced and deployed his taser gun, Const Young said.
 
Bierton pleaded guilty to obstructing a police officer, wilful damage and breaching a domestic violence order in the Mackay Magistrates Court yesterday.
 
Duty lawyer John Aberdeen, of Legal Aid Queensland, said Bierton could remember wearing handcuffs and being tasered that evening but couldn't recall threatening police.
 
"The taser shot at him - apparently it didn't work," he said.
 
"My client didn't feel anything."
 
Mr Aberdeen said Bierton was unemployed and stressed at the time and had issues with relationships, anger management and alcohol. In court Bierton said he was on prescribed medication at the time of the incident.
 
Magistrate Athol Kennedy said there was no excuse for Bierton's actions.
 
"Police are not there to be abused. None of us are," he said. Bierton was sentenced to 12 months' probation and ordered to pay $300 compensation to the police officer he kicked in the chest during the dispute.
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« Reply #230 on: March 29, 2012, 12:26:33 PM »

GM, of course I get the point about knives, distance, time, etc.  Duh.  However in that time is precisely what is in question here, how is it that the police had the time to holster their taserS and then draw their guns?  Tis curious , , ,

Also, you continue to avoid the matter of there NOT being marijuana in his system though I have presented it to you point blank a number of times.
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« Reply #231 on: March 29, 2012, 03:34:42 PM »

"There was no allegation of crazed behavior due to marijuana use; only the allegation of use. For Michigan CPS authorities, that was enough to remove the child...."

In MN it is a temporary 72 hour hold with an emergency court hearing set right away.  The criteria I don't know exactly but basically the the LEO must believe, have some verification and sign that the 'child is need of protective services' (a CHiPS petition).  Assuming there is some truth and verification to what the LEO wrote, the judge takes control and starts ordering the social services investigations  and the county attorney's office prosecutes the case.  If found guilty or true, the parent files a re-unite plan and the speed of that depends on all the factors.  Like GM says, they would re-unite with almost anyone.  Terminating parental rights has a statute, but they don't go there.

I'm sure it is simplest if you are guilty.  They find the parent a program, they get clean, got tested a few times and the state is not going to want to keep spending money on the case.  Proving yourself innocent is a whole different matter.  You would have a trial or hearing similar to a criminal hearing plus a criminal trial - I would assume it would take a simultaneous criminal charge, child endangerment etc. for this to continue.  If you are accused but innocent in all that, think how long that process could take.  They can hold your kid for all that time until you are cleared, because you are presumed guilty.

Yes, that would be a stresser for them to come for your kid for the wrong reasons but not a good time to commit a higher crime, threaten the police for example. 

Just my 2 cents, I agree with Crafty, this is outrageous IF it started over a false and fairly minor accusation. My guess was the whiff of pot was on top of the domestic threat which could have been significant, and the threat to police added another incident plus credibility toi the domestic threat. 

The domestic threat is another presumed guilty situation in this state, depending on gender.

On the other side, it is amazing in what lousy circumstances for a kid that they will not take action to protect the children.  This jurisdiction is Michigan so the precedent of what circumstances they will act on includes the insides of some homes in the inner city of Detroit with some pretty bad conditions (my opinion from an inner city landlord perspective).  I am quite a bit skeptical that this began over a reported whiff of pot. 
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« Reply #232 on: March 30, 2012, 03:33:35 PM »

GM, of course I get the point about knives, distance, time, etc.  Duh.  However in that time is precisely what is in question here, how is it that the police had the time to holster their taserS and then draw their guns?  Tis curious , , ,

Also, you continue to avoid the matter of there NOT being marijuana in his system though I have presented it to you point blank a number of times.
And I responded.Quote from: Crafty_Dog on March 28, 2012, 07:35:40 PM


They say they are taking the man's child away because he smoked pot in front of the child, yet there are no traces of pot in his system.  As both of us know, pot takes months to clear out of someone's system, so how can this be?

Does this not strike you as very odd?



"The attempted removal of the minor child came after a police officer who came to the scene on a call earlier that same day reported that he smelled marijuana and reported the incident to CPS authorities, who decided the child needed to be removed."

So, reading the line from above, I'm guessing there was an odor that the officer detected from the residence. Perhaps the source wasn't the father in the case, but another person in the residence at the time.

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« Reply #233 on: March 30, 2012, 03:38:04 PM »

OK, I glitched on that.

So, the father was not tested prior to the order of the removal of his child?  Is this how things are done?
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« Reply #234 on: March 30, 2012, 03:52:34 PM »

I'm not sure how they might do it in MI., but if a child/parent were under the supervision of "Social Circuses", they might require the parent to take a pee test. Again, this is normally worked out through family court.
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« Reply #235 on: April 06, 2012, 10:51:20 AM »

An award to a gangster

The city's payment of $4.5 million to a gangbanger would be a reminder that the actions of police officers are sometimes costly. It would also serve to remind us that police need incentives to perform well.

April 6, 2012

It is natural that some members of the Los Angeles City Council are flinching at being asked to pay $4.5 million to Robert Contreras, a gang member who committed a drive-by shooting, then fled police in a failed attempt to elude capture, only to end up shot and crippled. In a city that is scraping to preserve services through this economic downturn, it is a bitter pill indeed to pay off a gangster.

Yet pay him off the council should. This is ground the city has covered many times before, and though it's never pleasant, it's a reminder that the actions of police officers are sometimes costly, and there's no way to avoid paying that price.

Contreras was a gang member up to no good on a September night in 2005 when he ran from the police, but the officers that night failed as well, shooting Contreras when they believed he was turning on them with a gun. It turned out to be a cellphone, and Contreras ended up paralyzed.

Yes, it is Contreras' actions that started the chain of events that left him crippled. For those criminal actions, Contreras went to prison, as he deserved to. But a separate jury ruled that the officers were wrong to shoot him, and it awarded him $4.5 million for his injuries. The city can settle now for that amount or appeal and risk paying him much more.

Critics of the payout are irritated that the jury was not told of Contreras' crimes before it decided whether he deserved compensation. But those facts were not germane. His arrest and prison term were the consequences of his crimes; his lifetime of paralysis is the consequence of the officers' mistakes, at least in the eyes of the jury.

The understandable reluctance to reward Contreras in one sense parallels the unsatisfying resolution that occurs when police officers conduct an improper search, rifling a house, for instance, without a warrant. They may find guns or drugs that amply implicate a suspect in a crime but be forced to let the suspect go when the search proves inadmissible in court. Why should society be forced to see a guilty suspect go free just because police officers misbehaved?

The answer is that police need incentives to perform well. If they can violate a suspect's rights or shoot an unarmed man, there must be a price to pay. If not, they'll do so with impunity. Sadly, it's the city that pays the bill.

Copyright © 2012, Los Angeles Times
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G M
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« Reply #236 on: April 06, 2012, 12:08:26 PM »

A sign of how our society has lost contact with reality. California being the leading edge, of course.
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bigdog
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« Reply #237 on: April 13, 2012, 06:19:25 PM »

http://now.msn.com/now/0413-rome-police-centurion-battle.aspx
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« Reply #238 on: April 23, 2012, 01:06:47 PM »

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/04/nj_state_troopers_face_probe_f.html

The State Police are investigating complaints that two troopers escorted a caravan of luxury sports cars at speeds in excess of 100 mph down the Garden State Parkway to Atlantic City last month. The occupants included former Giants running back and sports car enthusiast Brandon Jacobs, according to a source with knowledge of the trip.

In the complaints, obtained by The Star-Ledger, witnesses said that in the early afternoon March 30, they saw two State Police patrol cars with their emergency lights flashing driving in front of and behind the southbound caravan, which included dozens of Porsches, Lamborghinis, Ferraris and other vehicles, all with their license plates covered with tape.

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G M
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« Reply #239 on: April 23, 2012, 03:34:33 PM »

Ugggg.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/04/nj_state_troopers_face_probe_f.html

The State Police are investigating complaints that two troopers escorted a caravan of luxury sports cars at speeds in excess of 100 mph down the Garden State Parkway to Atlantic City last month. The occupants included former Giants running back and sports car enthusiast Brandon Jacobs, according to a source with knowledge of the trip.

In the complaints, obtained by The Star-Ledger, witnesses said that in the early afternoon March 30, they saw two State Police patrol cars with their emergency lights flashing driving in front of and behind the southbound caravan, which included dozens of Porsches, Lamborghinis, Ferraris and other vehicles, all with their license plates covered with tape.


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« Reply #240 on: April 23, 2012, 05:01:31 PM »

BD:

On your behalf I have put in a subject line that someone could use to find this post in the future.
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« Reply #241 on: April 23, 2012, 05:09:13 PM »

BD:

On your behalf I have put in a subject line that someone could use to find this post in the future.

NJ Troopers High Speed Escort Service

Wait, I thought the Secret Service had the escort scandal.....  evil
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JDN
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« Reply #242 on: May 08, 2012, 08:38:55 AM »

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-bait-car-show-20120508,0,818573.story
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JDN
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« Reply #243 on: May 08, 2012, 10:48:23 AM »

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-kelly-thomas-20120508,0,5787840.story
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JDN
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« Reply #244 on: May 16, 2012, 08:54:12 AM »

Maybe they should make the Officers personally liable for gross negligence just like any other citizen.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0516-kelly-thomas-settlement-20120516,0,5351009.story
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« Reply #245 on: May 16, 2012, 10:22:43 AM »

You are aware that the employer, the city of Fullerton here, would remain liable, yes?

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JDN
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« Reply #246 on: May 16, 2012, 10:40:41 AM »

You are aware that the employer, the city of Fullerton here, would remain liable, yes?



Of course, just like a hospital would also remain liable for a grossly negligent staff doctor.  But that doctor would probably end up being responsible personally as well.  Police, government employees in general seem exempt from responsibility.

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« Reply #247 on: May 16, 2012, 01:34:52 PM »

Most on this site like/want government to be run like a business.  In many respects I agree.

What private business would give full pay to incompetent employees to stay home?  These four were not as of today criminally charged, but no one doubts their culpability. 
Simply put, if this was a private corporation, they would have been fired without severance a long time ago.  And everyone would say good riddance. 

_____

"Wolfe is the first officer seen in the video using physical force against Kelly Thomas, striking him with a baton.

"Why is Officer Wolfe still on paid administrative leave?" one resident asked. "Why is he on a holiday at our taxpayer expense? That's horrible, unconscionable and it needs to change yesterday."

Wolfe was one of four officers -- including Officer Kenton Hampton, Sgt. Kevin Craig and Cpl. James Blatney -- who were not charged in connection with the beating.

All four officers are currently on paid administrative leave.

Orange County Dist. Atty. Tony Rackauckas has not ruled out additional charges in the case.

The City Council also announced that it had approved a $1-million settlement resolving Cathy Thomas' legal claims in the death of her son. Ron Thomas has a separate claim that remains unresolved. The couple is divorced.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/05/kelly-thomas-case-angry-fullerton-residents-want-cops-fired.html
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #248 on: May 16, 2012, 01:51:41 PM »

There are these things that you may have heard of called "unions" and "contracts". 

I'm guessing the contract with the union specifies what is being done now.

As far as personal liability goes, are you saying that this will lessen bad behavior? or lessen the number of people willing to be policemen?  or that the plaintiffs get to collect from the officer in question on top of the police department? or?
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JDN
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« Reply #249 on: May 16, 2012, 02:03:41 PM »

Oddly enough it's not a matter of "unions" and "contracts" although I'm sure, like any private business, that would enter into the discussion.  Rather it is a matter of "due process".  Something I don't honestly understand.  Unlike a private citizen, public employees simply cannot be terminated for "just cause".  It's a long process....
http://www.coollaw.com/documents/185.pdf

Yes, I think it will lessen bad behavior.  Just like I think the Doctor subconsciously weighs his liability.  He thinks twice before making a mistake.  And therefore truly gross negligence is very unusual.

As for the number of people willing to be policemen, well there is a long line of applicants, especially in this job market.  The pay is good, the benefits overly superb, and the job rewarding, albeit sometimes dangerous. 

As to from whom the plaintiff get's to collect, I'm not the attorney here, but using my example of the Physician, in cases of gross malpractice, the Physician is named, the Hospital is named, and usually the kitchen sink is named too.  How liability gets allocated and the pot gets distributed I don't know.
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