Dog Brothers Public Forum


Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
February 20, 2018, 08:02:03 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Welcome to the Dog Brothers Public Forum.
107422 Posts in 2403 Topics by 1095 Members
Latest Member: dannysamuel
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  Dog Brothers Public Forum
|-+  DBMA Martial Arts Forum
| |-+  Martial Arts Topics
| | |-+  The Unorganized Militia: Citizens defend themselves/others.
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7 Print
Author Topic: The Unorganized Militia: Citizens defend themselves/others.  (Read 181767 times)
Power User
Posts: 42478

« on: October 26, 2007, 11:41:58 AM »

Dallas police: Man in wheelchair disarms and kills invader

09:18 AM CDT on Friday, October 26, 2007

From WFAA-TV Staff Reports

We open this thread with a real humdinger:

3500 East Overton Road
Dallas police said a disabled man shot and killed a person who broke into his apartment early Friday morning.
Police said the man was able to get out of his wheelchair, struggle with the invader, take his gun away and shoot him.

The events at the Village Oaks Apartments in the 3500 block of East Overton Road were reported to police at 2:49 a.m.

The intruder was taken to Baylor University Medical Center in Dallas where he died.

The disabled man was not immediately identified by police, but he appeared to be in his mid-50s.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 02:14:10 AM by Crafty_Dog » Logged
Dog Pound
Power User
Posts: 105

« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2007, 05:44:32 PM »

Between the fox running for his dinner and the rabbit running for his life ... the rabbit often wins - even when the rabbit is in a wheel chair.

I don't know how many of them it would have taken to whip my ass, but I knew how many they were going to use. That's a handy little piece of information.
- Ron White
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2007, 11:36:07 PM »

73 year old security guard disarms gun and drives off two robbers

Was it the Bible grandma was carrying or the .32?  Or Both?  Only God knows for sure , , ,

Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2007, 09:16:54 PM »

Important legal issues presented in this story:

AP Texas News
Nov. 15, 2007, 11:38AM
Elderly man shoots two suspected burglars at neighbor's home
© 2007 The Associated Press

PASADENA, Texas — A grand jury will decide if an elderly man who shot and killed two men he believed were robbing his neighbor's home acted within the limits of the state's self-defense laws.

The man, who is in his 70s, shot the two suspected burglars Wednesday afternoon in a quiet subdivision of the city southeast of Houston. He confronted the men as they were leaving through a gate leading to the front yard of his neighbor's home.

Just before the shootings, the man called 911 to say that he heard glass breaking and saw two men entering the home through a window, Pasadena police said.
"The man told the dispatcher: "I'm getting my gun and going to stop them. The dispatcher said, 'No, stay inside the house; officers are on the way.'," said police spokesman Vance Mitchell. "Then you hear him rack the shotgun. The next sound the dispatcher heard was a boom. Then there was silence for a couple of seconds and then another boom."

The telephone line then went dead, but the man called police again and told a dispatcher what he had done. He said he confronted the suspected burglars and asked them to stop, but they did not.
The man then fired twice, striking one of the suspected burglars in the chest, and the other on the side. The shooter's name was not released.

When police arrived, they found one dead man across the street, and the other two houses behind a bank of mailboxes in the Village Grove East subdivision.  The suspects' names were not released, but police said they had documentation from Puerto Rico, Colombia and the Dominican Republic.

Under state law, Texans are allowed to defend themselves with deadly force to protect their own property. The person using deadly force must believe there is no other way to protect their belongings.  Defense attorney Tommy LaFon, a former Harris County prosecutor, said the gunman may be on safe legal ground if the neighbor whose home was burglarized tells police he asked the man to watch his property.  "If the homeowner comes out and says, 'My neighbor had a greater right of possession than the people trying to break in,' that could put him (the gunman) in an ownership role," LaFon said.

According to the state penal code, a person can use force or deadly force to defend someone else's property if he reasonably believes he has a legal duty to do so or the property owner had requested his protection.
Here is the actual 911 call:
Texas Penal Code
is justified in using force or deadly force against another to
protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if,
under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the
actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force
or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful
interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or
criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property;
(2) the actor reasonably believes that: (A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.

justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

§ 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in
lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful
interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,
movable property by another is justified in using force against the
other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force
is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the
property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit
after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no
claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; 


Sec. 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9, Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable. 
« Last Edit: December 03, 2007, 09:19:30 PM by Crafty_Dog » Logged
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2007, 09:32:22 PM »

Long, but it has the 911 transcript


(CBS) The 911 call came from a Pasadena, Tex., resident, who alerted police to two burglary suspects on a neighbor's property. Before he hung up, two men were dead by his hand.

Joe Horn, 61, told the dispatcher what he intended to do: Walk out his front door with a shotgun.

"I've got a shotgun," Horn said, according to a tape of the 911 call. "Do you want me to stop them?"

"Nope, don't do that - ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?" the dispatcher responded.

"Hurry up man, catch these guys, will you? 'Cause I'm ain't gonna let 'em go, I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm not gonna let 'em go. I'm not gonna let 'em get away with this ----."

Shortly after, Horn said he sees one suspect was standing in front of his house, looking at it from the street.

"I don’t know if they’re armed or not. I know they got a crowbar 'cause that's what they broke the windows with. ... Man, this is scary, I can't believe this is happening in this neighborhood."

He gets more agitated. The dispatcher asks if he can see the suspects but they had retreated into the target's house, out of view: "I can go out the front [to look], but if I go out the front I'm bringing my shotgun with me, I swear to God. I am not gonna let 'em get away with this, I can't take a chance on getting killed over this, OK? I'm gonna shoot, I'm gonna shoot."

"Stay inside the house and don’t go out there, OK?" the dispatcher said. "I know you're pissed off, I know what you're feeling, but it's not worth shooting somebody over this, OK?"

"I don’t want to," Horn said, "but I mean if I go out there, you know, to see what the hell is going on, what choice am I gonna have?

"No, I don’t want you to go out there, I just asked if you could see anything out there."

The dispatcher asks if a vehicle could be seen; Horn said no. The dispatcher again says Horn should stay inside the house.

Almost five minutes into the call, police had not arrived.

"I can’t see if [the suspects are] getting away or not," Horn said.

Horn told the dispatcher that he doesn’t know the neighbors well, unlike those living on the other side of his home. "I can assure you if it had been their house, I would have already done something, because I know them very well," he said.
Dispatcher: "I want you to listen to me carefully, OK?"

Horn: "Yes?"

Dispatcher: "I got ultras coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house. And I don't want you to have that gun in your hand when those officers are poking around out there."

Horn: "I understand that, OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir, and you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the First and you know it and I know it."

Dispatcher: "I understand."

Horn: "I have a right to protect myself ..."

Dispatcher: "I'm ..."

Horn: "And a shotgun is a legal weapon, it's not an illegal weapon."

Dispatcher: "No, it's not, I'm not saying that, I'm just not wanting you to ..."

Horn: "OK, he's coming out the window right now, I gotta go, buddy. I'm sorry, but he's coming out the window. "

Dispatcher: "No, don't, don't go out the door, Mister Horn. Mister Horn..."

Horn: "They just stole something, I'm going out to look for 'em, I'm sorry, I ain't letting them get away with this ----. They stole something, they got a bag of stuff. I'm doing it!"

Dispatcher: "Mister, do not go outside the house."

Horn: "I'm sorry, this ain't right, buddy."

Dispatcher: "You gonna get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun, I don't care what you think."

Horn: "You wanna make a bet?"

Dispatcher: "Stay in the house."

Horn: "There, one of them's getting away!

Dispatcher: "That's alright, property's not something worth killing someone over. OK? Don't go out the house, don't be shooting nobody. I know you're pissed and you're frustrated but don't do it."

Horn: "They got a bag of loot."

Dispatcher: "OK. How big is the bag?" He then talks off, relaying the information.

Dispatcher: "Which way are they going?"

Horn: "I can't ... I'm going outside. I'll find out."

Dispatcher: "I don't want you going outside, Mister..."

Horn: "Well, here it goes buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going."

Dispatcher: "Don't go outside."
On the tape of the 911 call, the shotgun can be heard being cocked and Horn can be heard going outside and confronting someone.

"Boom! You're dead!" he shouts. A loud bang is heard, then a shotgun being cocked and fired again, and then again.

Then Horn is back on the phone:
"Get the law over here quick. I've now, get, one of them's in the front yard over there, he's down, he almost run down the street. I had no choice. They came in the front yard with me, man, I had no choice! ... Get somebody over here quick, man."

Dispatcher: "Mister Horn, are you out there right now?"

Horn: "No, I am inside the house, I went back in the house. Man, they come right in my yard, I didn't know what the --- they was gonna do, I shot 'em, OK?"

Dispatcher: "Did you shoot somebody?

Horn: "Yes, I did, the cops are here right now."

Dispatcher: "Where are you right now?"

Horn: "I'm inside the house. ..."

Dispatcher: "Mister Horn, put that gun down before you shoot an officer of mine. I've got several officers out there without uniforms on."

Horn: "I am in the front yard right now. I am ..."

Dispatcher: "Put that gun down! There's officers out there without uniforms on. Do not shoot anybody else, do you understand me? I've got police out there..."

Horn: "I understand, I understand. I am out in the front yard waving my hand right now."

Dispatcher: "You don't have a gun with you, do you?

Horn: "No, no, no."

Dispatcher: "You see a uniformed officer? Now lay down on the ground and don't do nothing else."

Yelling is heard.

Dispatcher: "Lay down on the ground, Mister Horn. Do what the officers tell you to do right now."
Two days later, Horn released a statement through an attorney.

“The events of that day will weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life," it said. "My thoughts go out to the loved ones of the deceased.”

The identities of the men killed were released Friday.

They are Miguel Antonio Dejesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30. Official records show that each of them had a prior arrest in Harris County for drug offenses.

The men were reportedly shot at a distance of less than 15 feet.

A woman who lives nearby who asked not to be identified told CBS News affiliate KHOU correspondent Rucks Russell that she always saw Horn as a grandfather figure. "He is the guardian of the neighborhood," she said. "He takes care of all our kids. If we ever need anything, we call him.”

But according to Tom Lambright, Horn’s attorney and a friend for more than four decades, he’s the one in need now. “He just needs everyone to know he’s not a villain, he’s not a bad guy,” Lambright said.

He went on to say that Horn voluntarily gave an extensive video statement to police immediately following the shooting.

Horn was not taken into custody after the shooting. A Harris County grand jury will decide if charges are to be filed.

Lambright says Horn acted in complete and total self defense and has nothing to hide.

Local opinion has been passionate on both sides of the shooting.

One letter to the Houston Chronicle said, "He didn't shoot them in the legs, to make sure they did not run away, or hold them at gunpoint until police arrived. No, he was judge, jury and executioner."

Another letter writer praised Horn, saying, "Where does the line form to pin a medal on Joe Horn? I want to get in line." Another wrote, "Let's get rid of the police force and just hire Joe Horn!"

Support for Horn was also running about 2-1 in an online survey of readers on the KHOU Web site.

The incident may prove a test for a new law recently passed in Texas which expands the right of citizens to use deadly force.

Under Texas law, people may use deadly force to protect their own property or to stop arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night.

But the legislator who authored the "castle doctrine" bill told the Chronicle it was never intended to apply to a neighbor's property, to prompt a "'Law West of the Pecos' mentality or action," said Republican Sen. Jeff Wentworth. "You're supposed to be able to defend your own home, your own family, in your house, your place of business or your motor vehicle."
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2007, 11:14:21 AM »

On an airplane, citizens restrain man shouting "Allah Akbar" and "Shoot me!"
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2008, 04:51:40 PM »

With more people carrying guns, self-defense killings on increase

By Christopher Conley
Saturday, January 5, 2008

The number of justifiable homicides in Memphis jumped from 11 in 2006 to 32 in 2007.
No one is sure why, but one man has a theory.
"The thugs have started running into people who can protect themselves," said Tom Givens, owner and instructor at the firearms training school RangeMaster, 2611 S. Mendenhall in Memphis.
Police detectives and prosecutors don't think it's that simple, and they acknowledge the spike could be a one-time occurrence.
"It's hard to put your finger on it," said police Lt. Joseph Scott. "There are more handgun carry permits, there is more education, but you can't say that's the reason."
More people are getting carry permits and more people know their rights. As many as 35,000 people in Shelby County have carry permits, which means they have had some training on the laws governing self-defense.
The education, Givens says, is "trickling down" to friends and family members.
There were 19 fewer criminal homicides in 2007 compared to 2006. There were fewer gang killings as well, which are less likely to be viewed as justified, and there were fewer beating deaths, which, again, are rarely justifiable.
But there were more deadly shootings by law enforcement officers last year -- four by Memphis police, including one by an officer assigned to a federal fugitive task force. There was also one by a Shelby County sheriff's deputy and one by a University of Tennessee officer. All were found to be what internal affairs investigators term "good shoots."
Tennessee law gives citizens the right to defend themselves if they have a reasonable and imminent fear of harm from a carjacker, rapist, burglar or other violent assailant. They can also employ deadly force to protect another person.
And while a diminishing number of states require citizens to try to avoid a confrontation before using deadly force, Tennessee does not have such a "retreat law."
When someone claims self-defense, it is the burden of the prosecutors to refute that claim. Tie goes to the shooter.
"The state has to prove it was not justified. ... We have the burden of proof," said Asst. Dist. Atty. Tom Henderson, a member of the review team that determines whether killings are justified.
Even if the shooting is found to be justified, the shooter often suffers trauma. Even if the shooter is a police officer.
Henderson has seen one trend: "The more the public is afraid of crime, the less concerned they are with criminals being shot." But he can't say that has affected the totals for justifiable homicides.
When someone claims self-defense, detectives often have to dig to determine what happened.
They look at the forensic evidence to see if it matches up with the shooter's story. What does the gunshot look like? Is it at the right angle, the right distance? Did anyone see a gun?
Recently, a killing that looked like a case of a citizen defending himself and his girlfriend from a burglar had an odd twist.
Investigators said Antionita Clay, 31, called boyfriend Christopher Jones and told him someone had broken into her home and might still be there.
Jones went to Clay's Camelot Lane apartment and confronted Asa Marmon, 22, who had a stun gun. When Marmon lunged at Jones, Jones shot him.
Clay filed a burglary report and denied knowing Marmon, but investigators quickly learned that Clay and Marmon were involved sexually.
Clay told police she knew Jones had a handgun and she wanted Jones to scare Marmon.
Jones told police he thought he was confronting a burglar or rapist based on what Clay told him. Prosecutors decided Jones was justified in killing Marmon, but they still charged Clay on Dec. 28 with reckless homicide.
- Chris Conley: 529-2595
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2008, 12:43:44 PM »

Jeanne Assam tells of her gunfight$40322
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2008, 10:03:25 AM »

Police: Teen makes mistake of trying to rob former U.S. Marine

Bay City News Service
Article Launched: 03/27/2008 10:39:20 AM PDT

SANTA ROSA - A boy in his mid-teens learned Wednesday afternoon that it is not a good idea to try to rob a former U.S. Marine at knifepoint, even if the former Marine is 84 years old, police said today. Santa Rosa police Sgt. Steve Bair said that's what happened around 2 p.m. in the 1600 block of Fourth Street. The elderly man was walking with a grocery bag in each arm when the boy approached him with a large knife, Bair said.
The boy said, "Old man, give me your wallet or I'll cut you," Bair said. The man told the boy he was a former Marine who fought in three wars and had been threatened with knives and bayonets, Bair said.
The man then put his bags on the ground and told the boy that if he stepped closer he would be sorry. When the boy stepped closer, the man kicked him in the groin, knocking him to the sidewalk, Bair said. The ex-Marine picked up his grocery bags and walked home, leaving the boy doubled over, Bair said.
The man reported the attempted robbery to police 45 minutes later.
Bair said the teen is described only as 15 or 16 years old. Anyone with information is asked to call the Police Department.
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2008, 02:15:07 AM »

Man who stopped knife fight on I-40 was ‘blessing from above’

Ex-Marine praised for providing first aid

by John Boyle
published April 3, 2008 12:15 am

SWANNANOA – Police do not recommend doing what Will Gardner did Tuesday afternoon, but they do acknowledge that he probably saved a life.
The 56-year-old intervened in a brawl just off Interstate 40, kicking a knife out of the hand of one man and then separating the fighters. But Gardner, an ex-Marine who saw combat in Vietnam, says he did what most people would do in that situation — the right thing.

“If more people would get involved, less people would get hurt,” said Gardner, an electrical engineer by training. “It’s their responsibility.”
The man who sustained three knife wounds, Candler resident Robby Ammons, 37, called Gardner’s actions “a blessing from above.”
“Will was instrumental in stopping the bleeding in my arm, in my side, in my abdomen,” Ammons said. “He kept me alert, kept me awake. I was blinking in and out. Thank God for him, I’ll tell you that.”
Ammons was treated at Mission Hospitals Tuesday. He was back home Wednesday.
No charges yet

The fight started in a clearing just off exit 59 in Swannanoa around 4:30 p.m.
The two men met for “a pre-arranged child swap where one individual was giving custody to another individual,” Buncombe County Sheriff’s Lt. Ross Dillingham said Tuesday.
Ammons said he confronted the man about comments made about his wife, and the argument quickly escalated into a fight.
Contacted for this story, the other man declined to comment.
Buncombe County Sheriff’s Office Lt. Ross Dillingham said detectives are still investigating the case and will present their evidence to the district attorney, who will then decide what charges, if any, may be appropriate.
“Usually, when there’s an assault, we make charges immediately,” Dillingham said. “But whenever there’s the possibility of self-defense, we gather the information, present the case and let the DA make the final determination.” He would not reveal any other information about the incident, including the name of the other man involved in the fight.
Dillingham said that police do not encourage citizens to emulate Gardner’s actions.
“I would never recommend anyone putting themselves in harm’s way, which is exactly what Mr. Gardner did — which is very admirable in this situation,” Dillingham said. “He played a large part in saving the life of the man who was stabbed by using the tourniquet and the appropriate medical techniques.”
Dillingham said passersby should call police or emergency responders who are trained to handle such situations.
‘Just pumping blood’

Gardner, who is well known locally as the owner of White Dog Printing from 1991-2004 and the owner of the Black Mountain Folk Music Festival from 1992-1997, says plain instinct drove his decision to stop and help as he was on his way to his Swannanoa home. When he pulled up, he could see the man swinging a knife at Ammons.
He said other motorists had stopped, but no one was approaching the men.
“So I just walked over and when I saw the knife, I booted it,” Gardner said. “I just booted the knife because I was afraid of getting stabbed.”
He got the men separated and then started applying pressure to Ammons’ wounds. The ex-Marine has a theory as to why the men remained apart.
“I have two very, very large German shepherds,” Gardner said. “The window was down, and I think both the guys thought they were going to get bit.”
Gardner used his own undershirt to apply pressure on Ammons’ back wound and applied pressure to the abdominal wound. He also fashioned a tourniquet from one of his German shepherd’s leashes to stop the bleeding in Ammons’ arm.
“It was just pumping blood,” Gardner said.
‘Being odd’

At this point, Rudi Sommer, the operations director at MANNA Foodbank, had exited the interstate to pick his kids up from school. He jumped out and helped Gardner stanch the bleeding.

“I was impressed with Will’s handling of the situation,” Sommer said. “Time really seems to drag on when you’re waiting for an ambulance.”
Gardner elevated Ammons’ legs, and he kept telling him jokes to keep him alert. At one point, Gardner said he told Ammons he was “cut like the Mississippi River — wide, deep and long.”

“The idea was to keep him from bleeding to death before the rescue squad got there,” Gardner said, adding that he admires Sommer for jumping in to help. “It wasn’t rocket science.”

While he eschews the “hero” tag — he says his knees were knocking the rest of the night after the encounter — Gardner does allow that he’s something of an eccentric.

“Quite frankly, being odd is not an easy thing; it’s not a comfortable thing,” Gardner said. “On the other hand, if being odd allows me to do what I did, I’ll guess I’ll be odd.”

Contact John Boyle at 828-232-5847, via e-mail at
Posts: 6

« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2008, 01:50:14 AM »

12-year-old protects mom, fatally stabs attacker
Boy: 'I told God that I had stabbed him because he was killing my mother'
updated 6:52 p.m. ET, Wed., April. 2, 2008
HYATTSVILLE, Md. - A 12-year-old boy fatally slashed a man who was attacking his mother at the boarding house where they lived, authorities said.

Salomon Noubissie, 64, died at a hospital after he was slashed across the neck Monday night in the home in the Landover area.

Cpl. Diane Richardson, a spokeswoman for Prince George's County police, said Wednesday that authorities hadn't decided whether the boy would be charged with anything. They were reviewing the case with the state's attorney's office.

The boy said he had been playing a video game Monday night when he heard his mother, Cheryl Stamp, scream. He found her on the kitchen floor, straddled by a fellow resident who was choking her.

"I kept saying, 'Stop! Stop! Stop!'" the boy told The Washington Post, which published his account without giving his name. "But he just ignored me. He didn't stop. He just kept hurting her."

The boy said he took a knife and swung at the man. Police say they found Noubissie with a knife wound to the upper body.

Stamp said she didn't fully realize at first what her son had done. "He didn't say anything," she said. "But I knew when I looked in his eyes. I said, 'Oh, Lord.' "

Rarely is a 12-year-old implicated in a homicide, and even less often does a child that age kill someone to protect his mother.

"In Maryland, there can be a legitimate defense of third parties in the event of a violent attack," State's Attorney Glenn F. Ivey told the newspaper. "That is a possibility in this case."

'He protected me'
Stamp said she and Noubissie, a Cameroonian immigrant, had moved into the boarding house within days of each other three months ago and had become friends. Stamp said Noubissie had told her he was studying to be a psychiatrist.

But on Monday night, she said, he was acting differently. He started to yell at her and grab her hair.

"He threw me down and started choking me. I think that's when my son came in. ... He protected me," she said.

Noubissie was combative with officers when they arrived, even as he was bleeding heavily, she said.

The boy said he was not happy with what happened but felt he had no choice.

"I told God that I had stabbed him because he was killing my mother. I know he understands, and I think he will keep us safe now."

Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2008, 10:51:45 AM »

By Vic Ryckaert

A blind homeowner used the wrestling skills he learned more than 30 years ago to overpower an intruder and hold the man at knifepoint until police arrived this morning.

“I just kind of panicked and just kind of went crazy after that,” Allan Kieta said. “I’ve wrestled all my life. My dad’s a Marine; he taught me some stuff. You’re thinking in your head all this survival stuff.”

An Indianapolis police official called it one of the most incredible tales of citizen self-defense that he’s heard in years.

“It’s pretty remarkable for anyone that’s blind to be able to defend themselves, let alone make an apprehension,” Lt. Jeff Duhamell said. “To be able to grab this guy and hold him down until police got there is pretty remarkable.”

Kieta is typically at work on Mondays but had taken the day off from his job with the federal government. So he was home when a man entered his Eastside residence in the 3100 block of Richardt Avenue about 9 a.m.

“We have a little poodle-like dog. It was barking and barking,” Kieta said. “I opened the door and just ran into him.”

Kieta, 49, who is legally blind, said he was the Kentucky high school wrestling champ for the 145-pound division in 1976. He used his skills and other self-defense tactics learned from his father to subdue the intruder.

“I had him pinned in the laundry room and just kept pummeling,” Kieta said, describing the pounding he gave the 25-year-old arrested by police.

Kieta punched, kicked and grappled until the suspect became disoriented. Kieta said he grabbed him by the belt and dragged him into the kitchen. Kieta then found a kitchen knife and held it at the man’s throat.

Kieta fumbled to dial 911 with his other hand.

“Being visually impaired, I couldn’t get the buttons because I was using my left hand,” he said. “It took me about 20 tries.”

Police arrived minutes after dispatchers received the call at 9:47 a.m.

Alvaro Castro, 25, was arrested on an initial charge of residential entry, Sgt. Matthew Mount said. Police say Castro denied trying to burglarize the home. He said he was the ex-boyfriend of Kieta’s 18-year-old daughter and said he was trying to visit her when he ran into her father, Mount said.

Kieta said Castro also told him he was looking for his cat.

“I go, ’Your cat? You’re in my house!”’ Kieta recalled.

Castro was held at Wishard Memorial Hospital's secure detention facility, then transferred to the Marion County Jail late Monday night.

Kieta said he suffered swollen hands and a sore back, but no serious injuries.

“When my wife was cleaning the blood off, she said ‘I think it’s all his,’.” Kieta said.
The Associated Press contributed to this story.
Power User
Posts: 143

« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2008, 05:47:31 PM »

Respect your elders or else!    tongue

When life gives you lemons make lemonade
When life gives you hemlock, do NOT make hemlockade!
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2008, 12:37:28 PM »

In light of many of the discussions on this forum, I thought I'd post this video:


The lack of response by bystanders (ahem, cameraman) is disturbing. I also find it interesting that although the assailant is obviously intending to kill his victim, the bystanders that do come to her aid are surprisingly "gentle" with him.

Crafty, if you think this warrants its own thread/discussion, I will be happy to move it.

Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2008, 01:21:43 PM »

Woof SB:

I know we discussed this one on the DBMA Assn forum, and IIRC on the Spanish Language forum, but if we haven't discussed it on this one here, it certainly deserves it.  Would you please begin a thread titled
"Case Study:  Bystanders hesitate in Holland (or whatever name you want")"?  Thank you.

Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2008, 09:42:00 PM »

New Reality Show

Now Picked up By a Major Network

A new Reality Show , featuring the Martial Arts is gearing up and looking for your
story. Have you ever been attacked , stalked, struck or mugged and were you able
 to fight back using your martial arts training  ?  .

Like nothing you have seen before . This show will be based on experts and novices
alike , be part of a all empowering show , which will leave the audience smarter,
more prepared and wiser to the world we live in today.

Instructors we are looking for WOMEN  ( for our first show ) that have used thier
martial arts  in a attack.
1. Please send a small write up on the attack to our Email
2. Please note that person will have to be able to travel to Brooklyn NY During
the last weeks of May for 1 day , for filming.

The Producers : Fight Back Intelligently

Andrea Matzke &  Alan Goldberg

Cast so far : David Toma , Christine Bannon Rodriquez , Alan Goldberg, Demitrius
 Oak tree Edwards

Please Contact us at []

Or 718 856-8070
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2008, 09:19:10 AM »


Victim speaks about donut shop robbery
04:22 PM CDT on Friday, May 9, 2008

David Schechter reports
May 9, 2008

Neighborliness has been redefined in a West Fort Worth neighborhood. Early this morning a robber invaded a local donut shop. Before he could get away a neighbor shot the intruder dead outside the Happy Donut Shop.

It’s a beloved neighborhood gathering spot owned by Chong Randle. Early this morning, when Randle was in the back she heard a loud noise up front. The robber broke through the glass and entered.

“He said, ‘I’m going to shoot you’. I said, ‘Go ahead and shoot. I’m going to heaven. Go ahead shooting. I just put my hands up and lay down,’” said Randle.

“He said I’m going to shoot you and you said go ahead and shoot me?” asked reporter David Schechter.

“You wanna shoot. Shoot. Because I’m going to heaven,” she added.

Randle says she gave him everything she had—about $30 in change. Instead of leaving, though, the robber kept demanding more. What that robber didn't know was that as the seconds ticked by Randle’s neighbor was on his way to help with a loaded shotgun. He shot and killed the intruder-- 45-year old Richard Lane.

“How do you feel about him? Are you thankful?” Schechter asked Randle.

“He shoot them because he’s doing the right thing,” she said.

Randle was lucky to get away with minor injuries. She says this is the second time this week Randle’s been robbed. She thinks it was the same person, both times.

“Not a very happy week for Happy Donuts,” Schechter asked.

“Still happy donuts. We didn’t do anything wrong,” she said.

The neighbor who shot the robber was not available for an interview today. He likely will not face any charges… though the case may be reviewed by a grand jury. But if any witnesses are needed, there was actually a police officer driving by just as the gun went off.
Posts: 17

« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2008, 08:48:02 PM »


A rifleman angered by a custody dispute with his ex-girlfriend opened fire at a parish school festival in Granada Hills this morning, wounding the woman and two other fairgoers before being tackled by bystanders and arrested by an off-duty police officer, authorities said.

Glad to see people willing to do what is necessary to end the threat.
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2008, 12:04:17 PM »,2933,356710,00.html

Gas Station Employee Fired for Fighting Off Robber

Tuesday, May 20, 2008
By Sara Bonisteel

Mark Beverly

An act of bravery to defend a co-worker has cost a Minnesota gas-station attendant his job.
Mark Beverly, an overnight shift supervisor at a SuperAmerica in Roseville, Minn., was fired in March after he jumped on a masked robber who he believed was attacking a fellow employee.

SuperAmerica said he violated company policy when he came to his colleague's aid in the early morning of March 26. So instead of accolades, Beverly got the boot.

Adding insult to injury, Beverly — who is still looking for another job — has been denied unemployment benefits. He will appeal that decision on June 5.

The trouble began around 3 a.m. when Beverly was cleaning the bathroom and his female co-worker was behind the cash register. Beverly said he heard her scream, so he ran out and saw a robber wearing a blue-stocking cap jostling with her.

"It looked like he was hurting her, so I jumped on him," Beverly said. "I just tried to bang him on the counter a couple of times."

After a tussle, he said, the robber regained his footing and looked as if he was going to pull out a weapon. Beverly said the man told him, "Don't be a hero," before fleeing the store with about $15.
Beverly called police and reviewed security tapes with his managers before completing his shift. "Everything was fine," he said.

The next day, however, he was fired for violating company policy.

Marathon Petroleum Company, the owner of the SuperAmerica chain, said Beverly was told what to do in the company handbook — which advises employees to "cooperate: don't argue, resist or attack the robber" — and through a computer-based training program Beverly was required to complete when he was hired.

"He endangered himself and her, and that’s why we have the policy," said Linda Casey, a Marathon spokeswoman. "And we have enforced it with other employees, not just with him."

"I just thought it was wrong, that's all," said Beverly, who had worked at SuperAmerica for just over a year. "You're not really trained for a robbery, and that was the first robbery I have ever been in in my life."

Capt. Rick Mathwig of the Roseville Police Department said authorities advise people not to take action when faced with a robbery.

"When you start resisting at some way shape or form, the suspect who may not have intended on using the weapon that he or she came with may use it intentionally or unintentionally when faced with a conflict," he said.

Roseville police have listed the case as inactive as they have not been able to identify the robber. The only image of him is partial profile and his face is obscured by the stocking cap, Mathwig said.

The security tape did not show the female co-worker struggling with the robber over the cash-register drawer, Casey said.

"The female employee was never attacked," she said. The robber reached in and grabbed cash out of the drawer.

"We have a statement from both [Beverly] and the female employee," Casey said. "Neither one of them say anything about her being attacked, hurt or anything, and the video we have substantiates it."

Beverly said that from his vantage point, he thought she was being attacked.
"With both of them so close it looked — from the angle that I was at — it looked like she was being attacked," he said.

Posts: 17

« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2008, 11:34:17 PM »

Store clerk involved in shootout honored by community


The store clerk, 57-year-old Matt Warren Huerta, told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS he was determined not to let Curry get his hands on the store's safe.

"He wanted to tie me up and fumbled around and couldn't do it. Then he used the electrical cord off my vacuum cleaner and when that didn't work very well, I saw that he had taken both hands off the weapon," explained Huerta.

He said that was when he realized he had a chance to fight back.
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2008, 07:21:00 AM »

Not exactly defense, but certainly heroic:

FAYETTEVILLE, Ga. -- Adults didn't see a drowning 5-year-old, but his 6-year-old friend did.Haden Stusak, 6, of Fayetteville is being called a hero after he dived into a pool to investigate a shadow on the bottom that turned out to be his friend.Josiah Buddah, 5, and Haden are buddies. Haden is a good swimmer, but Josiah can't swim without his water wings.On Sunday, Josiah took off his water wings and sank to the bottom of the deep end."I was scared, I was scared," said Josiah.An adult spotted a shadow in the pool, but couldn't get to it. No one knew the shadow was Josiah. But Haden got curious and dove down to investigate. He had been practicing diving to the bottom. When he discovered Josiah, he grabbed him and pulled him to the surface.VIDEO: 6-Year-Old Saves 5-Year-Old Friend From Drowning
"Well, I grabbed him like that; he was like unconscious. I grabbed him and I was swimming like this," said Haden."He jumped inside the water; he helped me get back up," said Josiah.Two nurses and doctor started CPR."They took me to the hospital," said Josiah. "I was dead and couldn't breathe."It all happened in seconds."I could have been burying my baby this week, so just to know that he's here, No. 1, is amazing, because to see your child lifeless for a few minutes, you think it's over," said Josiah's mother, Judith Buddha."So I called 'Help, help, he drowned,'" said Haden.Haden's parents told Channel 2 they ask him not to talk so loudly and to keep his voice down. This is one time they're glad they heard his screams.Josiah is doing well and is now swimming with a float suit. He will start lessons in a couple of weeks.And in true hero fashion, Haden says what he did was no big deal."We're friends. That's what friends do," said Haden.
Power User
Posts: 2004

« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2008, 06:46:58 PM »

Hmmmm "Hero"Huh

According to the article, Beverly;

1. signed and acknowledged clear company policy not to interfere
2. there was no mention of Beverly having any military/police experience
3. the local Police Capt. in his expert opinion clearly said it was wrong to interfere
4. the MN EEOC also ruled that the employee acted wrongly and in error
5. the female employee was NEVER attacked proven as per the video AND testimony
    given by the same female employee

Frankly, the Marathon spokeswoman was right, "he endangered himself and her
(the other female employee)."

This story has a "happy ending" but what if the robber, rather than simply leaving
with $15.00, out of anger or stress shot Beverly AND shot and maybe killed the other
innocent female employee who had merely been following company policy?  Would we
be singing praises to Beverly for contributing to his co-worker's death?  And not
to mention, while not important compared to human life, the female employee
and/or her estate would probably file a wrongful death suit against Marathon
because of the grossly negligent Beverly.

This story has a "Happy Ending" and resolved itself ONLY because Beverly finally listened
to the robber and decided NOT to be a "Hero". Otherwise his stupidity almost got two
people killed over $15.00.
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2008, 12:06:18 PM »

Armed 85-year-old woman makes intruder call cops

August 19, 2008 - 11:23pm

POINT MARION, Pa. (AP) - An 85-year-old woman boldly went for her gun and busted a would-be burglar inside her home, then forced him to call police while she kept him in her sights, police said. "I just walked right on past him to the bedroom and got my gun," Leda Smith said.

Smith heard someone break into her home Sunday afternoon and grabbed the .22-caliber revolver she had been keeping by her bed since a neighbor's home was burglarized a few weeks ago.

"I said 'What are you doing in my house?' He just kept saying he didn't do it," Smith said.

After the 17-year-old boy called 911, Smith kept holding the gun on him until state police arrived at her home in Springhill Township, about 45 miles south of Pittsburgh.

The boy will be charged with attempted burglary and related offenses in juvenile court, Trooper Christian Lieberum said. He was not identified because of his age.

"It was exciting," Smith said. "I just hope I broke up the (burglary) ring because they have been hitting a lot of places around here."
Power User
Posts: 15533

« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2008, 05:14:28 PM »

In reference to the other thread, would the law prof suggest that she make no statement when the police arrive?
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2008, 06:11:39 PM »

I'm guessing he would say, "keep your mouth shut". Probably more from a civil suit p.o.v. than a criminal one. The poor burglar was probably scared out of his wits and she was keeping him hostage after all.  evil
Power User
Posts: 15533

« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2008, 06:19:38 PM »

Some criminals are incredibly sharp witted and can lie with incredible ability.

The police arrive and based on what she saw on the net, grandma refuses to speak to the police. Meanwhile, the little dirtbag tells the police that he was walking down the sidewalk when the old lady confronted him at gunpoint and abducted him into her home. He then says he was trying to call 911 for help when she caught him and told him to tell the dispatcher he broke in, all while at gunpoint.

I wish I could ask the prof to answer that one.  evil
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2008, 08:34:02 AM »

Police: Man with bombs 'ready for war' with city

(CNN) -- A police officer and two civilians subdued an armed man who drove to a California probation office with 11 crude bombs, 70 loaded magazines and more than 4,000 rounds of ammunition, police said.

The man, Michael Solano, 54, of Sacramento, was out of jail on bail for a July 18 incident in which police said an explosive device was found in his vehicle at the probation office.

"This guy was ready for war," Yreka Police Chief Brian Bowles said in a written statement. "We were very lucky this guy was stopped and nobody was killed yesterday."

The incident occurred Tuesday afternoon, when people saw Solano acting suspiciously near the Siskiyou County Probation Department and called police, Bowles said.

Solano aimed a gun at an officer, police said. Two civilians then jumped into the fray and, with the officer, subdued Solano and wrestled the gun away, police said.

During the scuffle, Solano repeated that he wanted to be killed and reached for the officer's gun and Taser stun gun, Bowles said.
Solano was handcuffed and searched. Police found a pipe bomb in his shoe, Bowles said. A neighborhood near the probation office was evacuated after Solano told police that he had 10 bombs in his car parked nearby, authorities said.

The bombs were "fragmentation grenades," loaded with nails and BBs, Bowles said. In all, police discovered 70 loaded magazines, more than 4,000 rounds of ammunition, one stolen pistol and two assault weapons. They also found in Solano's car three other weapons, including one with a silencer, surveillance equipment, a tactical vest and clothing with face masks, Bowles said.

Solano was jailed in lieu of $2 million bail, police said. He was charged with possession of a destruction device, transportation of a destruction device and resisting police officer by force, attempting to take an officer's firearm and assault with a firearm on a peace officer. He is facing additional charges, authorities said.

Bowles thanked Brett Duncan and and Darrell Bourne of Yreka, who he said helped subdue Solano.

"We are lucky that the quick response from officers and help from the citizens saved us from a very serious incident," he said.
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2008, 11:50:21 AM »

He then says he was trying to call 911 for help when she caught him and told him to tell the dispatcher he broke in, all while at gunpoint.

awesome... grin
Power User
Posts: 197

« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2008, 02:35:37 PM »

Not exactly defense, but certainly heroic:

FAYETTEVILLE, Ga. -- Adults didn't see a drowning 5-year-old, but his 6-year-old friend did.Haden Stusak, 6, of Fayetteville is being called a hero after he dived into a pool to investigate a shadow on the bottom that turned out to be his friend.Josiah Buddah, 5, and Haden are buddies. Haden is a good swimmer, but Josiah can't swim without his water wings.On Sunday, Josiah took off his water wings and sank to the bottom of the deep end."I was scared, I was scared," said Josiah.An adult spotted a shadow in the pool, but couldn't get to it. No one knew the shadow was Josiah. But Haden got curious and dove down to investigate. He had been practicing diving to the bottom. When he discovered Josiah, he grabbed him and pulled him to the surface.VIDEO: 6-Year-Old Saves 5-Year-Old Friend From Drowning
"Well, I grabbed him like that; he was like unconscious. I grabbed him and I was swimming like this," said Haden."He jumped inside the water; he helped me get back up," said Josiah.Two nurses and doctor started CPR."They took me to the hospital," said Josiah. "I was dead and couldn't breathe."It all happened in seconds."I could have been burying my baby this week, so just to know that he's here, No. 1, is amazing, because to see your child lifeless for a few minutes, you think it's over," said Josiah's mother, Judith Buddha."So I called 'Help, help, he drowned,'" said Haden.Haden's parents told Channel 2 they ask him not to talk so loudly and to keep his voice down. This is one time they're glad they heard his screams.Josiah is doing well and is now swimming with a float suit. He will start lessons in a couple of weeks.And in true hero fashion, Haden says what he did was no big deal."We're friends. That's what friends do," said Haden.

Thank goodness that kid is alive.
I want to point out, where were the parents or adult supervision the whole time?
You don't let 5 and 6yo run loose at a pool all by themselves. Especially if they need "water wings".
If the child died, i would blame the parents for negligence. Having been a lifeguard for a few years when i was younger i recall numerous parents attempting to drop their young children off unsupervised and expect the lifeguards to baby sit their children. Even a few seconds of distraction with young children can be fatal.
I do not like water wings as they can easily slip off if the child puts his hands over his head, as well as they give parents false confidence. A vest is much better.

Every child should learn to swim proficiently. Start them early.
Power User
Posts: 15533

« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2008, 08:33:02 PM »

More kids die from drowning in swimming pools every year than are killed by firearms. I'm saying it's long past time we ban the possession of swimming pools.  evil
Power User
Posts: 299

« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2008, 04:17:50 PM »

Published: Wednesday, July 30, 2008

Monroe couple describe how they fought off armed man

By Jackson Holtz, Herald Writer
MONROE -- A few hours before Donna Angevine smacked an intruder in the head more than 20 times with a baseball bat early Thursday, she was sparring with her tae kwan do instructor.

He had to egg her on.

"Hit me," the instructor told her. Be aggressive.

The self-defense and martial arts training paid off for the Monroe woman, 45, when she and her husband, Roger Angevine, woke up to find a man in their bedroom.

"I'm here to rob you," they remember him saying.

Nearly a week later, the couple has stitches and deep purple bruises. Donna Angevine has a black eye. Her husband, 48, has a foot-long bruise on his side and a bite mark on his thigh.

The carpet in their bedroom, where the attack occurred, was removed. Police said the blood from the fight rendered it a biohazard and it needed to be destroyed.

The intruder is behind bars.

Taking a break from mowing their lawn Tuesday, the couple -- he's a retired business owner and she's a doggie fashion designer -- recounted their ordeal.

Roger Angevine said at first he thought maybe the intruder was a friend pulling a prank. He asked the man if he was serious.

"Does this feel serious?" the stranger said.

Angevine felt the sharp slap of a baseball bat against his torso.

The blow triggered a 15-­minute struggle.

The man ordered the couple, who were naked and unarmed, to the ground.

That's when Roger Angevine decided to fight back.

He tackled the intruder, hitting him with such force that he knocked the man's head through the drywall.

"My goal was to grab onto his wrists and hold on," Roger Angevine said.

An avid snowmobiler, Roger Angevine said he knows how to grip handlebars strong enough to save his life. Grasping the man's wrists was similar.

The couple was able to take away the intruder's gun and baseball bat.

"Hit him! Hit him! Hit him!" Roger Angevine yelled to his wife.

Again and again, Donna Angevine swung the bat at the man's head. She pleaded with him to stop fighting, but he continued.

"Please stop fighting," she said. "I don't want to hurt you anymore."

The fight went back and forth from the bedroom into an adjoining weight room. The two men wrestled while Donna Angevine kept swinging the bat.

At one point, the intruder bit Roger Angevine's thigh.

"That's actually what pissed me off," he said.

Finally, the intruder succumbed. The couple hog-tied him with belts and Donna Angevine sat on him until Snohomish County sheriff's deputies arrived.

"I came to make a quick buck," the man, 24, told police, according to court papers.

He said he walked from his Bothell home to the couple's residence at the end of a long private road in rural Monroe, the documents said.

"You have a lovely home," the man told the couple during the robbery attempt. "I thought you'd have lots of cash."

The intruder was hospitalized Thursday with a head wound. On Friday, he was booked into the Snohomish County Jail for investigation of first-degree burglary, first-degree robbery, second-degree assault and possession of a stolen firearm. He was being held Tuesday on $100,000 bail.

Police found in the man's backpack a knife, plastic zip ties, white nylon rope, black duct tape and a single roll of toilet paper, potentially for use in gagging his victims.

Roger Angevine said he finds it hard to believe someone would randomly stumble upon the house he and his wife built eight years ago. The intruder also seemed to know the layout of the house.

The man slipped in through an unlocked door, fetched a slab of bacon from the kitchen to lure the couple's three dogs away and found the bedroom amid the sprawling floor plan, Angevine said.

Snohomish County detectives continue to investigate the break-in. The Angevines acted in self-defense and will not face charges, officials said.

The couple said they're locking their doors and have beefed up their security plan.

They hope their ordeal will provide a cautionary tale to others.

"You can't rely on locked doors to stop a guy with a gun, baseball bat and a mission," Roger Angevine said. "You have to be able to defend yourself."

On Tuesday night, Donna Angevine said she continued her self-defense training at a session for women at Tiger Rock tae kwon do in Monroe.

"The guy just picked the wrong people to mess with," she said.

Reporter Jackson Holtz: 425-339-3437 or
The Daily Herald Co., Everett, WA

It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2008, 08:00:19 AM »

Home Invader Dies In Struggle With Father Of Intended Victim

Police: Sex Offender Brought Rope, Condoms, Knife To Planned Attack

POSTED: 4:38 pm EDT September 28, 2008
UPDATED: 6:21 am EDT September 29, 2008

INDIANAPOLIS -- A man who police said broke into a home with the intention of sexually assault a 17-year-old girl in her bedroom died early Sunday morning after a struggle with the girl's father.

David Meyers (pictured), 52, was pronounced dead at the scene shortly after officers arrived following a report of a home invasion in the 3500 block of West 79th Street at about 3:20 a.m.

Officers said they found Robert McNally, 64, on the floor with his arm around the neck of Meyers, struggling to hold him down.

When officers told McNally he could let go, they found that Meyers was unresponsive. Medics who were called to the scene then pronounced Meyers dead.

Indianapolis police Sgt. Matt Mount said Meyers had come into the home naked, except for a mask and latex gloves.
"He had rope, had a knife, had condoms, had a gag," Mount said.

Police said Meyers had gotten into the home through a window next to the girl's bedroom and that he knew the home well because his uncle owns it and he was an acquaintance of the family.

The teen awoke to find a naked man in her room and began screaming, alerting McNally, police said.
During a protracted struggle in the hallway of the home, McNally was able to get his arm around Meyers' neck and subdue him while his wife called police, officers said.
Meyers was a registered sex offender and was released from prison two years ago after he had served 10 years of a 20-year sentence for criminal confinement and sexual deviate conduct stemming from a case in Hamilton County.

Meyers was also being sought in Boone County for failure to register as a sex offender.

Police said Meyers had been living with his mother down a gravel road from the home that the McNally family lived in and had recently lost his job.
"When they got the mask off, both the father and daughter recognized him," Mount said.

Police said Meyers had a history of heart problems. They were not immediately sure if he died as a result of heart failure or from being choked.
The results of the police investigation will be turned over to the Marion County Prosecutor's Office, but it is unlikely charges will be filed, police said.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 67

« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2008, 10:01:44 AM »

He got off easy, if it had been my daughter...
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2008, 07:58:02 AM »
Power User
Posts: 500

"...grappling happens. It just does." - Top Dog

« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2008, 04:02:34 PM »

not sure if this post belongs in Russ Iger's Crimes using Knife thread,, or here....




These amazing X-rays tell a stunning story of survival - in which a 16-year-old boy somehow lived through a horrifying attack by a thug who plunged a knife into his skull.

The miracle kid was stabbed and left for dead during a robbery at a bus stop last November in south London, the BBC reported.

It could have been a grisly end for the victim if his pals had not intervened and fought off the attacker. They suffered serious wounds themselves during the robbery attempt; one was stabbed in the chest.

The 5-inch blade was plunged into the 16-year-old's skull just above his right eye, and penetrated all the way to his ear. The handle was left ghoulishly sticking out, as captured in these images released yesterday.

The victim has recovered and is now a student in college, the BBC reported. But he still needs to visit doctors regularly.

The 17-year-old suspect made his getaway on foot, but was later identified when cops were able to recover DNA from his hat.

The attacker - who, like the victim, has not been named publicly due to British law - was found guilty of attempted murder by the Inner London Crown Court.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 09:21:57 PM by Stickgrappler » Logged

"A good stickgrappler has good stick skills, good grappling, and good stickgrappling and can keep track of all three simultaneously. This is a good trick and can be quite effective." - Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2008, 12:07:35 PM »

 shocked shocked shocked shocked shocked shocked shocked shocked shocked
Frequent Poster
Posts: 67

« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2008, 02:04:43 PM »

Luck...the great equalizer !
Someone better be grateful for a second chance at life !
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2008, 09:31:37 PM »

Unarmed Coffee Shop Waitress Nabs Fleeing Bank Robbery Suspect

Saturday , October 04, 2008

An unarmed coffee shop waitress in Hillborough County, Fla., tackled and subdued an alleged armed robber after he hit the Valrico State Bank on Friday, Bay News 9 reported.

The Da Silva’s Coffee Shop employee had been trained in Germany as a police officer, but she was only half the size of the suspect she took down.

Local police said suspect Jeffrey Merritt, 44, ran past Da Silva’s on the way to his getaway car after robbing the bank.

The waitress — the Tampa Tribune reports she wished to remain unidentified — reportedly saw Merritt running with something and looking behind him. She chased him down, yelling, “Freeze or I’m going to shoot” and then tackled him.

She did not have a gun, but the bluff worked, and the suspect surrendered.

"I knew she was a trained officer, but I didn't know what that really meant," Karen Raga, a co-worker, told The Tampa Tribune.

Bystanders then helped the waitress sit on Merritt until police arrived.

Click here to read more on this story from Bay News 9.
Click here to read more on this story from The Tampa Tribune.
Power User
Posts: 15533

« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2008, 09:35:57 PM »

Nice. But it's not worth getting crippled or killed to try to save the bank's federally insured money.
Power User
Posts: 299

« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2008, 08:30:13 AM »

Man with candy cane fends off attacker:

"A man using a candy cane lawn ornament fended off a knife-wielding neighbor who had been attacking holiday guests at a Sacramento home.

Police spokesman Sgt. Norm Leong said the man used the 2-foot-tall plastic ornament to subdue the attacker until officers arrived and arrested him.

He said the 49-year-old suspect became intoxicated, went over to a neighbor's home on Thanksgiving and began waving a kitchen knife at people gathered on the lawn. He cut several people's clothing before one of them decided to fight back.

It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2008, 02:29:31 PM »

OAKLAND — A 15-year-old gang associate was in critical condition Friday after he was wounded twice by his own gun during a struggle with a 32-year-old he pointed the weapon at, police said.

The man, who police said was a former paratrooper in the Honduras army, was not hurt and waited for police to respond to where the confrontation happened. He gave a statement to investigators before he was arrested on suspicion of assault while the district attorney's office determines whether he acted in self-defense.

Police would not release the name of the teen or the adult pending the district attorney's review.

The shooting happened just before 2 a.m. Friday in the 3700 block of Foothill Boulevard in the Fruitvale district. The area is a known hangout of certain gang members and police said the 15-year-old is associated with the gang.

The man was on his cell phone when he was confronted by the teen, and possibly some other youths, said Officer Robert Trevino, who is investigating the case with Sgt. Drennon Lindsey.  The teen pointed a pistol at the man, who had never seen him before, and used a street term to see if he was in another gang, police said. Police said the man is not a gang member and has only been in Oakland eight months, seeking work.  When the teen was momentarily distracted by a passing car, the man grabbed the gun and the two began struggling over it, Trevino said. During the struggle the gun went off twice, hitting the teen in the neck and shoulder, police said.

He was taken to a local hospital by friends where he underwent surgery. The man waited for police to come to the scene and gave them the pistol.
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2008, 05:59:55 PM »

Citizen helps LEO during shooter situation
Power User
Posts: 197

« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2008, 12:02:15 AM »

Citizen helps LEO during shooter situation

That guy interviewed is a hero imho. He helped save lives by alerting others who initially were in disbelief and shock, then by guiding leo in to the shooter.
Note how the interviewed gentleman believesthe shooter was enjoying himself and was going to continue if not stopped dead by police.

Power User
Posts: 299

« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2008, 10:46:31 AM »

"Food" for self defense ....?!

It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
Power User
Posts: 2004

« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2008, 01:13:53 PM »

Peregrine wrote, "The guy who intervened is a hero imho."

Personally, I agree, but...,0,4033454.story

The article is too long to copy, but the gist of the article is that if you intervene, even for good cause,
you may be liable.

"Torti has no immunity for her bravery in pulling her injured friend from a crashed vehicle even if she
reasonably believed it might be about to explode."

So you try to help, thinking you are doing the "right thing" and now you are liable.  Your good samaritan
action may cost you your house and life savings.
Power User
Posts: 42478

« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2008, 03:14:14 PM »

Here's the full article:

California Supreme Court allows good Samaritans to be sued for nonmedical care
The ruling stems from a case in which a woman pulled a crash victim from a car 'like a rag doll,' allegedly aggravating a vertebrae injury.

By Carol J. Williams
December 19, 2008

Being a good Samaritan in California just got a little riskier.

The California Supreme Court ruled Thursday that a young woman who pulled a co-worker from a crashed vehicle isn't immune from civil liability because the care she rendered wasn't medical.

The divided high court appeared to signal that rescue efforts are the responsibility of trained professionals. It was also thought to be the first ruling by the court that someone who intervened in an accident in good faith could be sued.

Lisa Torti of Northridge allegedly worsened the injuries suffered by Alexandra Van Horn by yanking her "like a rag doll" from the wrecked car on Topanga Canyon Boulevard.  Torti now faces possible liability for injuries suffered by Van Horn, a fellow department store cosmetician who was rendered a paraplegic in the accident that ended a night of Halloween revelry in 2004.

But in a sharp dissent, three of the seven justices said that by making a distinction between medical care and emergency response, the court was placing "an arbitrary and unreasonable limitation" on protections for those trying to help.

In 1980, the Legislature enacted the Health and Safety Code, which provides that "no person who in good faith, and not for compensation, renders emergency care at the scene of an emergency shall be liable for any civil damages resulting from any act or omission."  Although that passage does not use the word "medical" in describing the protected emergency care, it was included in the section of the code that deals with emergency medical services. By placing it there, lawmakers intended to shield "only those persons who in good faith render emergency medical care at the scene of a medical emergency," Justice Carlos R. Moreno wrote for the majority.

The high court cited no previous cases involving good Samaritan actions deemed unprotected by the state code, suggesting the challenge of Torti's rescue effort was the first to narrow the scope of the law.

The three dissenting justices argued, however, that the aim of the legislation was clearly "to encourage persons not to pass by those in need of emergency help, but to show compassion and render the necessary aid."  Justice Marvin R. Baxter said the ruling was "illogical" because it recognizes legal immunity for nonprofessionals administering medical care while denying it for potentially life-saving actions like saving a person from drowning or carrying an injured hiker to safety.

"One who dives into swirling waters to retrieve a drowning swimmer can be sued for incidental injury he or she causes while bringing the victim to shore, but is immune for harm he or she produces while thereafter trying to revive the victim," Baxter wrote for the dissenters. "Here, the result is that defendant Torti has no immunity for her bravery in pulling her injured friend from a crashed vehicle, even if she reasonably believed it might be about to explode."

Both opinions have merit, "but I think the majority has better arguments," said Michael Shapiro, professor of constitutional and bioethics law at USC.

Shapiro said the majority was correct in interpreting that the Legislature meant to shield doctors and other healthcare professionals from being sued for injuries they cause despite acting with "reasonable care," as the law requires.  Noting that he would be reluctant himself to step in to aid a crash victim with potential spinal injuries, Shapiro said the court's message was that emergency care "should be left to medical professionals."

Torti's liability has yet to be determined in court, and if the Legislature is unhappy with any judgment arising from the immunity denial, it can revise the code, he concluded.

Torti, Van Horn and three other co-workers from a San Fernando Valley department store had gone out to a bar on Halloween for a night of drinking and dancing, departing in two cars at 1:30 a.m., the justices noted as background.

Van Horn was a front-seat passenger in a vehicle driven by Anthony Glen Watson, whom she also sued, and Torti rode in the second car. After Watson's car crashed into a light pole at about 45 mph, the rear car pulled off the road and driver Dion Ofoegbu and Torti rushed to help Watson's two passengers escape the wreckage.

Torti testified in a deposition that she saw smoke and liquid coming from Watson's vehicle and feared the car was about to catch fire. None of the others reported seeing signs of an imminent explosion, and Van Horn said in her deposition that Torti grabbed her arm and yanked her out "like a rag doll."  Van Horn's suit alleges negligence by Torti in aggravating a vertebrae injury suffered in the crash, causing permanent damage to the spinal cord.

Neither Torti nor her attorney, Ronald D. Kent, could be reached immediately. Kent's Los Angeles law office said he was in meetings on the East Coast and may not have seen the decision.

Van Horn's attorney, Robert B. Hutchinson, disputed the notion that the ruling could have a chilling effect on laymen coming to the rescue of the injured. Good Samaritan laws have been on the books for centuries and state that "if a person volunteers to act, he or she must act with reasonable care," Hutchinson said.

"Ms. Torti ran up in a state of panic, literally grabbed Ms. Van Horn by the shoulder and yanked her out, then dropped her next to the car," he said, deeming Torti's assessment of an imminent explosion "irrational" and her action in leaving Van Horn close to the car inconsistent with that judgment.

Hutchinson said it was too early to say what sum Van Horn might seek in damages; her original suit was summarily dismissed in Los Angeles County Superior Court before he could arrange expert assessments of the costs of her life care and loss of potential income. It was her ambition to become a Hollywood makeup artist -- a dream no longer achievable, the lawyer said.

Torti's trial at the Chatsworth courthouse is expected next year.
Power User
Posts: 2004

« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2008, 03:34:49 PM »

Marc, I could too have posted the entire article; perhaps I should have.  What I am more interested in
is your comments and thoughts; does one intervene?  Or do you think twice?  For example a robbery is taking place.  The robber
has a gun.  He says the usual, "give me the money or I will shoot you".  You are a citizen/customer armed with
a weapon.  Do you intervene?  My point, if for example you do intervene and the clerk is shot, did your good
samaritan action make you liable in CA?  Maybe the thief was going to simply leave with the money?  But you
intervened and the robber then shot the clerk.  Your good samaritan intervention indirectly caused injury or
death.  Are you liable?   Perhaps now under this ruling the clerk or his estate has action against you?

Power User
Posts: 15533

« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2008, 07:42:56 PM »

Reported by Jared Broyles
Concealed carry permit comes in handy for woman in Fort Smith
Posted: Dec 17, 2008 05:45 PM
Updated: Dec 17, 2008 10:36 PM

FORT SMITH - She's a woman who knows how to protect herself as two men who tried to rob her found out. What they didn't know was the woman is licensed to carry a concealed weapon...and yes, she was packing heat.

"A lady was flagged over Sunday evening about 6 p.m. on the interstate between Kelley Highway and the Arkansas river bridge." Lt. Steve Coppinger with State Police says that two men in a car signaled that the woman was getting a flat tire.

"When she pulled over to check her tires one of those person in that other car got out and attempted to rob her at knife point."

But what the thief didn't expect happened next. Coppinger says the female driver pulled out her handgun.

"She pointed that at her attacker and he backed away, got in the car and they fled."

Investigators say the would-have-been victim was able to turn the tables because she had a concealed carry permit. State police are keeping some details of the investigation close to their vest so they will know when they get the right guys. Right now, officials are saying they believe this to be an isolated incident.

As for advice, Lt. Coppinger says to always pull over in a well-lighted public area. And if you are pulled over by someone you don't know, don't get out of the car. Use your cell phone to call 911 and ask for assistance.

Investigators for the Arkansas State Police are trying to track down the alleged suspects and what's been described as a black Toyota Camry with Oklahoma plates. If you have any information that could be helpful to their investigation, please call Troop H in Fort Smith.
Power User
Posts: 2004

« Reply #48 on: December 19, 2008, 09:02:48 PM »

GM, your example is different; the woman herself was attacked; she was defending herself (quite ably)
and is of course entitled to defend herself even in CA.

But let's say another person was being robbed at knifepoint, and the woman interceded.  And,
let's say she used her gun and people were hurt or killed.

My question, given the CA Supreme Court ruling (rather unexpected) it now seems that if an innocent
or even the guilty party is injured the "good samaritan" may have civil liability.   I intercede, help
someone out, people get hurt, and I lose my house and savings...
Power User
Posts: 15533

« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2008, 10:02:26 PM »

Anyone can be sued anytime, for anything. As a peace officer or citizen, you face potential liability for anything and everything. Aside from not really having any assets, there isn't much you can do to avoid getting sued. Keeping that in mind, I do what I think is right and let the chips fall where they may.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 7 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!