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Author Topic: 8 year olds fighting MMA?!?  (Read 5742 times)
Crafty_Dog
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« on: February 11, 2008, 02:16:36 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30jiK1CDvug
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Guard Dog
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2008, 02:41:20 PM »

Someone needs to show the one kid how NOT to pull mount  grin  I'm a little concerned about how long the ref allowed the beating to go on in some parts of that fight.  Normally I would be fine with kids competing but the ref needs a little work for the safety of the fighters.

Woof,

Gruhn
« Last Edit: February 11, 2008, 05:21:19 PM by ryangruhn » Logged

Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
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Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
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Maxx
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2008, 05:00:35 PM »

Wow..That was pretty crazy.
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Sisco T.
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2008, 08:36:11 PM »

 i'm not OKAY at all with that angry what was the point in having those kids fight in that environment?? was it so they could be the youngest professionals to fight mma? that was pretty crappy, and it makes me feel uneasy & riled. kids training mma is fine, sparring mma is fine with me, 8 year olds in the cage fighting in a professional-like atmosphere does not feel ''right'' with me. that wasn't cute or entertaining to me.


  Francisco
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PhilipG
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2008, 08:03:17 AM »

There is a reason that there is an age limit on certain things like drinking, driving, getting married, going to war etc. It is basically to prevent those children from being exploited by adults for their amusement, profit or poor decision making skills.

These kids wore no head gear & 4oz gloves. What were the adults who promoted this thinking? Adults who participate in amateur mma have more sense than was shown to these kids.

Yes, I know that kids will still fight. That is not the point. I hope you see the difference.
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Guard Dog
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2008, 10:48:42 AM »

Quote
8 year olds in the cage fighting in a professional-like atmosphere does not feel ''right'' with me.

C-Frankfurter and all others,
  What are your thoughts regarding children in Thailand fighting at even younger ages?

Gruhn
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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
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Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
"Smuggling Concepts Across the Frontiers of Style”
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Sisco T.
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2008, 09:52:36 PM »

  ''C-Frankfurter and all others,
  What are your thoughts regarding children in Thailand fighting at even younger ages?''
 

 i'm not feeling that either, but there is a VERY different reason why those boys are fighting to what going on in the clip this thread is about. 3rd world countries are almost a whole different reality than what we know, or think we know.


    Francisco
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Guard Dog
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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2008, 10:12:55 PM »

  ''C-Frankfurter and all others,
  What are your thoughts regarding children in Thailand fighting at even younger ages?''
 

 i'm not feeling that either, but there is a VERY different reason why those boys are fighting to what going on in the clip this thread is about. 3rd world countries are almost a whole different reality than what we know, or think we know.


    Francisco

It's interesting because I am not against kids competing in MMA as much as I am against them competing in Muay Thai or Boxing.  I think MMA has the potential to be much safer as it is with adults fighting than stand-up only ring sports.  I guess the question to ask is where does one draw the line for age?  MMA has the potential to become one of the biggest sports and I think that athletic comissions have to ask this question at some point.

Here is a fight with bigger gloves and shin pads: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZOc9BDc8Tsw

BTW, the original video has been removed by the user. . .

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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
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Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
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ryan@dogbrothers.com | www.dogbrothers.com
Rory
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2008, 07:49:09 AM »


Quote
It's interesting because I am not against kids competing in MMA as much as I am against them competing in Muay Thai or Boxing.  I think MMA has the potential to be much safer as it is with adults fighting than stand-up only ring sports.

Hey all-

Like Ryan, I think I'd be more worried about kids boxing than doing MMA. I didn't get a chance to watch the original video but I did a search on YouTube for more and alot of the videos I found of similar stuff involved a limited amount of effective striking and was much more clinch and takedown orientated.

Here in Ireland there is a successful 'MMA league' for people who want to try MMA but not jump into pro-rules. For these bouts no headshots are allowed, and this format has been quite succesful. The kids matches here I have seen at shows have used this rule format, although the kids participating were all in their mid teens, and in skill terms they were already seasoned grapplers. Maybe this would be a good compromise and avoid some of the visceral reaction people who are outside of the sports might have to this kind of thing.

The issue of what consititutes exploitation of kids who are willing to fight at adult shows is a trickier issue that I don't feel qualified to answer. It would seem to be part of a broader debate about at what age kids would be allowed to test themselves in tough sports, it would have implications for other pursuits not just MMA.
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Sisco T.
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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2008, 04:13:11 PM »

 i think you two guys are missing the point of why I'M not for this. i'm not against against kids competing in mma at all. i'm against them competing like professionals. kids in thailand fght professionally because they ARE the ones who feed the family- a VeRY different reason to what this thread is about. get a point system, protective gear, etc. then it would be like doing a sport, not unlike TKD, judo, wrestling, boxing, pee wee football, etc., etc. i'm of the feeling you guys don't have kids, maybe you do. my feeling of this clip is that the kids are being exploited because its kids doing pro stlyle mma; it did not have the feeling of a legit competition.
i don't have much more to say about this.

  Francisco
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Howling Dog
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« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2008, 05:21:40 PM »

Woof Sisco, I'am totally feeling you on this. One of the things that bothered me about those clips was how big the crowd was. Its hard to beleive you can put that many like minded people together in one location shocked. Wonder where that was held?
I also wonder about the parents of those kids......
I used to kickbox and my trainer/manager put his 9year old in a "exhibition match" the kid got punched a few times started crying....the bastard made the kid go back out and finish the fight.
I wonder how much choice a 8 year old has in this?
I told another guy I know who fights about this and after very little explanation of what was going on....her blurted out "no way" he thought it was very uncool.
I totally agree on the exploitation thing.
Funny thing is people get really upset about dog fighting yet this is ok? tongue embarassed
                                                        Dog TG/SB
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Howling Dog
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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2008, 10:08:26 PM »

Quote
i'm of the feeling you guys don't have kids, maybe you do. my feeling of this clip is that the kids are being exploited because its kids doing pro stlyle mma; it did not have the feeling of a legit competition.

Little time but a quick yip on this!

No I do not have kids, I do however run a Montessori school with my girlfriend where we have on average 40-60 students at any given time from infant through 2nd grade.  I also teach Youth Martial Arts which is a program of about 40 students.  I agree Sisco that they are being exploited.  However, I think done right youth MMA has the potential to work.  I currently have about ten young hopefuls that genuinely love the sport of MMA and have since they were very young.  My youngest kids are seven and the oldest are in their teens.  I can attest that they decided they wanted to do it, the parents don't push them and they actually like the sport.  Mind you I don't relate it to violence but rather as a sport aspect and this is taken very well.  In any event, a few of them are currently going to start competing in BJJ tourneys and also doing some stand up competing in either boxing or MT.  Thereafter their plan is to do MMA.  Now, I agree that the 4oz gloves are too little protection.  I do however think that the MMA sparing gloves similar to what CSI sells would be great for youth competition.  I also think removing elbows and kicks and knees to the head would be a good addition to the rules.  In a setting such as this, do you think it would be acceptable Sisco?

Gruhn
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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
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Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
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ryan@dogbrothers.com | www.dogbrothers.com
Maxx
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« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2008, 10:16:06 AM »

Here is alittle Yahoo cover on the subject.

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=7144298&ch=4226713&src=news
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c - Shadow Dog
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« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2008, 10:38:32 AM »

The reporting was very unbiased.

I appreciated the fact that it was very unsensational.

With this making the drudge and yahoo its just a matter of time b4 the talking heads on network/cable television pick up on this and begin bashing. evil


The best part of the whole thing for me was the garage environment.

I started in a garage about 13 years ago and love the mentality that garage/backyard training fosters.

To this day i still have a little corner of my garage devoted to "fun".   

crutch
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Maxx
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« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2008, 01:01:18 PM »

I think they should have maybe not covered the Kids saying. " I like it cause I get to go in there and beat the other kid up" Even though we know that's some of the fun factor..The Media will use that to make it look like something its not.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2008, 04:43:34 PM »

I have no problem with submission grappling.  Encouraging your boy to push his limits, fine.  But when the encouragement means encouraging him to take shots to his young head, I have serious hesitations about it.
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Growling Dog
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« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2008, 08:42:37 PM »

i have to say i have mixed feelings about kids mma
on one hand if i had a child i would teach him/her every dirty nasty thing i know for their protection
but i would not let them fight any one  for the amusement of others
 i guess there is still an old school thing about me ya kids will fight and sneak a drink but it doesn't mean we should encourage it
Thai kids fight for money to feed their families, we live in countries where that is not necessary
but where do you draw the line do you stop your kids from playing paint ball
cause it promotes gun play?
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those who do not listen learn through feeling
Maxx
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« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2008, 10:21:47 AM »

Some people in This country ( America ) Probably are pretty poor where they would have to fight on the streets.
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c - Shadow Dog
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« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2008, 07:50:37 PM »

Max,

I'm not sure i follow you. huh

Are you saying that class or economic conditions are corelated with a propensity towards fighting in teen and pre teen boys?

or

Are you saying that children in the USA born in an improvised family have to "fight" on the street to subsist?  When you say "fight" are you saying fight as in fight club getting paid as a pugilist or larceny,robbery assult for profit type fight?

or

Are you making a social commentary about poor people  having different morals that predispose them to fighting?


or something else perhaps?



Terry
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califkali
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« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2008, 09:55:21 PM »

My youngest son started wrestling with the Temecula Scorpions at 6 yrs. old. I highly recomend the USA wrestling program for those of you with young kids, boys or girls. my son is now 20 and in the Navy, he still does a few tournaments a year. check out themat.com
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Maxx
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« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2008, 11:03:35 PM »

Yes..I am saying that some People Like my Grandfather were so poor that he had to roll knuckles in New York for alittle extra cash. Then he was so poor he had to join up in the Army and go fight in ww2 to earn money...

I am sure I am not the only one who has had or has family that are poor and who had to have a good dust up for extra money.

That is if you come from a family that was like that..

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Growling Dog
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« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2008, 12:12:47 AM »

hey maxx
i respect what your grandfather did for his family And i understand  where you are coming from there was allot of poverty in my family both of my parents lived through world wars and the Spanish civil war
there were some really hard times and they did some questionable things to provide for themselves and their families but we are taliking about 8 year old kids fighting mma
in America in 2008. i assure you i will go toe to toe with anyone for some cash to feed my kids but i would never get my kids to do it for me by destroying their bodies . my main concern here is the exploitation of children
in all areas of the world my main point was that children from lesser developed countries don't have a choice or the social assistance we have in America and i am sure if they did they would not allow it to go on
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Maxx
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« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2008, 12:01:34 PM »

herrero, I know what you are saying. I was making a comment in referance to the fact that it seems like you were saying that everyone in certain countries has it so well that they would not have to turn towards fighting in order to gain some money.

As for Kids fighting Mma at young ages.

I have a Son who is going to be 11 and I have a Daughter who is 2. I teach my son alot of Kali, Silat and Boxing/Mma. I only teach him a small portion of Grappling. The kind that gets you off the ground and back to your feet in a street fight.

He said he wants to get more serious about it when he is about 15 and maybe enter some fights. I told him I thought that was not a good idea till her was 18.

I think if you are old enough to go die in a war for the man. You are old enough to be in a cage fight.
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