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Author Topic: n00b, de-lurking  (Read 3100 times)
boomvark
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Posts: 8


« on: March 01, 2008, 01:47:35 AM »

Greetings everyone,

I've been aware of DBMA for some time now.  I came over, lurked for a while, registered, and then lurked some more.  Roughly a couple of weeks ago I ordered a bunch of sticks from KIL (Pappa Dog's outfit) and a whole bunch of DVDs from here.  The sticks are here, the DVDs are on the way, and I reckon this is as good a time to de-lurk as any.

I've had intermittent low-level instruction in various martial arts, mostly tang soo do, Shorin-ryu karate, and Yoshinkan aikido, but that experience ranged from 10 to 20-odd years ago.  I never even got within dreaming distance of a black belt in any of them, and frankly learned more from sparring with friends than from drilling in the dojo.

Anyhow, I'm 48 now, with a few chronic physical issues, and coming back from having let myself get inexcusably out of shape over a period of several years. A more weapons-oriented style increasingly makes sense to me, partly because the idea of going up bare-handed against anyone half my age and twice my size doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling (unless the tactile sensation associated with a loss of sphincter control could be characterized that way).  I've played around with some pekiti tirsia-derived blade work, and will continue doing so, but the more I see of sticks the better they look.  They're not as scaaawy as knives to the general public, and they grow on trees.

Anyhow, many thanks y'all for everything you're doing.  It's educational, inspirational, and even looks like fun.

Although it's sort of surprising how sore I've managed to get just from swinging a stick around ... Time to get familiar with the gym again, I reckon.
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Maxx
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2008, 11:45:51 AM »

Hello and welcome.

 There is only one thing I must comment on. I have no idea what state you live in but I am sure this pretty much goes for the most part though the whole usa and from my own experiance. If someone attacks you with bare fist and the situation does not call for it. Using a weapon on them can get you in a whole lotta world of trouble. I am pretty sure they would have to be caving in your dome before you use a weapon on them.

I could be wrong  cool  But its good to get in shape and learn your hands before you learn a weapon. Sometimes you can't get to that weapon or a weapon is not there.

But the FMA systems offer a whole heaping of Empty handed weapon tech as well as other form of So.East Asain MA's and if all else fails..RUN!
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boomvark
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Posts: 8


« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2008, 11:30:05 PM »

Hello and welcome.

Hello, Maxx, and thank you for your interesting and thought-provoking response!

Quote
There is only one thing I must comment on. I have no idea what state you live in but I am sure this pretty much goes for the most part though the whole usa and from my own experiance. If someone attacks you with bare fist and the situation does not call for it. Using a weapon on them can get you in a whole lotta world of trouble. I am pretty sure they would have to be caving in your dome before you use a weapon on them.

What I gather from Ayoob et al is that this depends on a wide number of factors, but that in general one must use force proportional to the level of the threat.  Smacking the hypothetical goon in the head with a baseball bat would probably be viewed as excessive force, even if he's 6'8" and 300-plus pounds of steroid-enhanced attitude.  On the other hand, taking out a leg might be seen as appropriate.  There are many variables which only the jury can sort out, if it even gets that far.

As to my location:  I live and work in the Bahamas most of the time, as a resident alien (military contractor, if anyone really want to know.  But I'm a paranerd, not a doorkicker.)  Stateside, I mostly hang out in Florida, which is my home state.  The laws governing self-defense in Florida are among the most sensible in the US, as far as I can tell.  The Bahamas are rather more restrictive, but not nearly as insane as, say, the UK currently has a reputation for being.

At any rate, I'd agree completely that the best way to handle violence is not to be there when it starts.  By a huge margin, Plan A is avoidance (situational awareness rules).  Plan B is de-escalation; plan C is escape, and actually fighting comes in a distant fourth.  If the situation degenerates that badly, then sorting out the legalities will be largely my attorney's job (if I live) or my executor's job (if I don't).

The only problem with running is that almost anyone who really wants to catch me has an excellent chance of doing so, thanks to one bum ankle.  I point this out just to reinforce the assertion that avoidance is Plan A.

Now, what happens if it's unavoidable ... that's where we get into lots of complexities.

Quote
I could be wrong  cool  But its good to get in shape and learn your hands before you learn a weapon. Sometimes you can't get to that weapon or a weapon is not there.

I'm curious as to what the presumed standard for "in shape" might be around here.  If it's "ready to roll in the UFC", then it's probably an unattainable goal.  Likewise, if achieveing Shodan rank in Kanga-ryu is the standard for having learnt one's hands, then that isn't likely to happen either.  But I'm not trying to be SEAL Team 6, just the Swiss National Guard.  So to speak. Smiley

I've already got a pretty good--albeit rusty--handle on the basics.  In the past couple of years, I've also reduced my spare tire from deuce-and-a-half size to moped.  That, too, is an ongoing process, and rather more difficult now than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

Quote
But the FMA systems offer a whole heaping of Empty handed weapon tech as well as other form of So.East Asain MA's and if all else fails..RUN!

That strikes me as a slight oversimplification of the escalation of force continuum, but I'll take it under advisement.  grin

Seriously, I was under the impression that most of the FMA systems started out with the stick.  Am I mistaken on that point?

This is already too long, so I'll shut up now.  I've got quite a few serious questions, but those should probably wait until I've at least reviewed the first couple of DVDs and perhaps done a more thorough search of the forum archives.

Again, thank you.
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Howling Dog
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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2008, 07:36:05 AM »

Woof,
Quote
If someone attacks you with bare fist and the situation does not call for it. Using a weapon on them can get you in a whole lotta world of trouble. I am pretty sure they would have to be caving in your dome before you use a weapon on them.

I find this intresting. I was not aware, that if I'am attacked that I have to defend myself by engaging my attacker in a fair fight.
I would be intrested to hear more on this subject........
                                                                       TG
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Howling Dog
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2008, 09:33:13 AM »

This seems a subject worthy of its own thread.  Someone please feel free to do so.
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Maxx
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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2008, 12:01:58 PM »

I have never Hear of Ayoob  , but I will ask one simple question: is he a lawyer?

If the answer to the question is "no," then what are you doing listening to him for legal advice?
Would you go to a commercial real estate developer if you needed open-heart surgery? If he is a lawyer, then my next question is: "in what jurisdictions is he licensed to practice?" Unless the answer to that question is "all 50 states and the District of Columbia and territory of Puerto Rico (which would be a REALLY neat trick)," I would confine his area of expertise to where he is licensed and where he has practiced law. Emphasis on PRACTICED law.

The law is not something you can pigeonhole, especially for something as complex as "self defense." Add a weapon to the mix and you are really moving on thin ice.

You want legal advice on self defense in your jurisdiction? Go talk to a licensed attorney who deals with criminal law in your jurisdiction. Pay for a consultation (although many criminal defense attorneys give free consults). It will be an hour well spent.

______________________________________________________________

@ Tom guthrie - I was once put in a situation when I was younger with a couple friends of mine and my Girlfriend who at the time was going to have my son. So it was about 4 of us and we were attacked by a whole heaping alot of guys. The situation took a turn and my friend did what he had to do and added a weapon into the situation. And "We" were arrested for this attack.

I watched how the Police, Dets. And the DA were putting holes though the situation. They told us we could have ran, this and that. And my favorite we could have used reason...

I remember saying to the DA...You wanted me to try and talk to 15 drunk guys who were beating our ass?

To make a long story short. After they looked at the tape of the chaos. They said that we had gaps were we could have run and we did not take that chance to do so...I don't know to this day where these chances to run were.

But I am 2 other friends were let free and my friend who pretty much saved our lives in self defense got locked up for 5 years. All for bringing a weapon into the Mix.

I have a good friend who is a Police officer and one who is a Lawyer who I spoke with years later down the road about this and both told me. " It really all depends on the "City, State and DA" And if someone attacked you "Was your life on the line" And the one I really loved. Was just because you thought your life was on the line. Does not mean it really was and they people who are going to be in control of your freedom may not think the situation warranted using a weapon.

Christopher, who is my friend who is a Lawyer in LA also began to tell me that in cases that involve a weapon it comes down to how you used the weapon and what was the weapon...I was like "WTF If you stab, If you slash, Did you hit them in the head, Did you runaway screaming for your life and were blocked in. Did you look for help? All these factors can decide freedom and losing your freedom.

Case that popped up in California in my neck of the woods. fight breaks out at a party. Guy A starts throwing fist with guy B..Guy A knocks down guy B and starts kicking him. Guy B gets up and grabs a bottle and Hits A with it

Guy B had to do time...Later I found out though some channels that there was no reason for Guy B to use a weapon. I asked "Wasnt this guy getting his ass beat? I thought he was on the ground getting kicked?"

The response I got was. Guy A was not attacking him in a life threaten manner.

The law is tricky I guess. It all depends and I always suggest people find out what the law is in their neck of the woods or the woods you patrol...What you deem as Self Defense might not be what the DA deems as self-defense.

I did however find out a little more on Ayoob he was a police officer in Concord, New Hampshire...I don't think Ayoob is a professional when it comes to States laws 2,000 miles away or maybe even ones next door.


@ Marc - You were a lawyer, Correct? Do you have any imput on the situation?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 12:17:15 PM by Maxx » Logged

Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2008, 12:54:26 PM »

Please see the thread "Self-Defense Law"
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