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Author Topic: The War on Drugs  (Read 138412 times)
ccp
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« Reply #400 on: April 12, 2016, 11:28:52 AM »

Is now the war on hating of drug pushers and drug users:

"Yet the entire criminal justice system is now being branded as racist and oppressive. Disgraceful."

Yes.  And now all drug users are to be treated with love compassion and billions in dollars for a whole new hoard of Wall Street invested business just foaming at the mouth to get in on the pending avalanche of tax dollars for the whole new emphasis on "treatment".  As if there at this time NO treatments already available:

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/04/11/oreilly-blacks-committing-crime-proportion-groups-racial-component-blacks-prison/
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ccp
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« Reply #401 on: April 13, 2016, 01:44:25 PM »

Actually I was not aware of this.  I don't think I would label this "fueling" the epidemic but it certainly is another burden on us.  Drug users are extraordinarily manipulative and "hip" on knowing all the "correct" things to say in order to try to get us to write scripts for them.  There is no shortage of "hard luck" stories they tell us.  Most experienced physicians learn these tricks and red flags.
But it is still not easy sorting out legitimate needs from the illicit ones.  It is frankly impossible to be able to 100% perfect.  I am also sure that some doctors have become so frightened to write prescriptions for pain meds that there policy is to write zero.  I certainly do not agree with this.  On the other hand I have seen a very small minority (thank God) write scripts for cash.  These doctors are no different than heroin or cocaine dealers.  It seems difficult to go after them even when it is plainly obvious what they are doing. 

http://time.com/4292290/how-obamacare-is-fueling-americas-opioid-epidemic/
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ccp
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« Reply #402 on: April 13, 2016, 01:52:30 PM »

As an aside I am now doing work wherein I get feedback from all the patients.

I seem to do well except occasional patients who want antibiotics for common colds.  I go out of my way to explain why they would not work, more then 95% get better without antibiotics, risk of side effects, concerns for resistance to antibiotics becoming more prevalent for "over Use".  No matter for some patients.  They rate me poorly because I wouldn't prescribe the antibiotic; even if I negotiate with them to call back at no charge in the usual days recommended and if at that time they sound like it might help I will write a rx.

Not long ago I had a patient asking for a long term supply of decongestants.  On questioning I found out she had a coronary stent and I then explained decongestants are contraindicated with someone with heart disease and indeed can be dangerous.   They all have warnings about this on their labels.  Especially is she wants to take it for a month or more for sinus allergies.  (these meds are no longer sold in large quantities without a prescription because they are used to make methamphetamine though I did not suspect that here - OTOH never say never)
Naturally though I thought I was doing her a service by warning orf the danger and I offered other options instead.  She gave me a very poor review.

I suppose it is like this in every "customer" service industry though.   Can't please everyone.
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ccp
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« Reply #403 on: April 18, 2016, 01:04:38 PM »

Contrast this to the US where he would be suing the taxpayers for "hate crime" and discrimination against his civil rights, get the marine fired and and shamed in the NY Times, the President would feign his outrage and Black Lives Matters and Rev Al would all be descending on the location where this picture was made demanding riots, firings, civil settlements, reforms and then MSNBC would cry police brutality 24/7, and that despicable racism is rampant in the US, and of course, lets not forget  Hillary would be pretending this was all about  the 'obvious racism' in front of Latino audiences while claiming she fought for Latino rights 'all her life' and probably throw in a few comments about needing to bring in more Latino immigrants if only we can get those evil hate mongering, war mongering Republicans out of the way for good measure:

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016/04/18/exclusive-mexican-cartel-hitmen-forced-wear-womens-lingere-after-capture/
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 01:15:36 PM by ccp » Logged
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #404 on: April 25, 2016, 11:22:54 PM »

https://news.vice.com/article/ungass-portugal-what-happened-after-decriminalization-drugs-weed-to-heroin?utm_source=vicenewsfbads
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ccp
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« Reply #405 on: April 26, 2016, 06:16:58 AM »

The article is interesting indeed!  I noticed this following statement.  So what I think this means is drug *use* but not sales is legal.  So it is only partial decriminalization.
Heroin use is down but is that due to the availability of other drugs?  NO IV drugs?  and hence the drop in HIV?  Are the drugs being sold legally by the State?  I didn't see that.  Well William F Buckley called for decriminalization in part to take the criminal element out. 

I guess i could do a search and read more about this. 

"Today, Portuguese authorities don't arrest anyone found holding what's considered less than a 10-day supply of an illicit drug — a gram of heroin, ecstasy, or amphetamine, two grams of cocaine, or 25 grams of cannabis. "

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G M
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« Reply #406 on: April 26, 2016, 09:16:25 AM »

Trafficking is still a crime in Portugal.
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G M
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« Reply #407 on: May 13, 2016, 02:53:36 PM »

Montezuma County sheriff: Legal pot attractive to drug traffickers
May 6 Mancos bust nabs Kentucky man, $18,000
By Jim Mimiaga
The Journal Article Last Updated: Thursday, May 12, 2016 10:37pm

Montezuma County Sheriff Steve Nowlin says an increase in drug trafficking in the area is a result of Colorado’s legalization of recreational marijuana.

“Colorado has become a source state for drugs, and that is causing more and more problems,” Nowlin told Montezuma County commissioners.

He said Colorado marijuana suppliers are being contacted by out-of-state drug dealers, including the Mexican cartel, to sell them large amounts of pot for out-of-state sale.

Two recent drug busts illustrate the problem, the sheriff’s office said.

On May 6, an undercover sting in Mancos led to an arrest of a Kentucky man and confiscation of a vehicle and $18,000 in cash.

According to the sheriff’s report, the suspect requested an undercover agent provide him with 10 pounds of marijuana and 1 ounce of cocaine and methamphetamine. He had driven from Kentucky for the purchase.

After the undercover narcotics sale concluded, the suspect was confronted by law enforcement, brandished a firearm and fled on foot. After a short foot and vehicle chase, he was found hiding under a vehicle and arrested.

“The suspect arrested in this case intended to transport and distribute the marijuana in Kentucky upon his return,” the police report claimed.

On March 18, a vehicle suspected to be trafficking cash related to narcotic sales and the Mexican drug cartel was stopped on U.S. Highway 160, and $22,000 in cash was found hidden in the vehicle.

According to the sheriff’s report, “the currency was packaged in a way commonly used by Mexican drug cartels to smuggle large amounts of cash.”

The cash seizure was turned over to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection to investigate its origin.

The suspect had been released at the scene of the original stop pending evidence gathered during the search warrant. Case records are sealed as the investigation continues.

The sheriff said that the Highway 160 corridor is commonly used as a smuggling route for drug cartels to move narcotics and then transport the cash back to Mexico.

Recent legalization of recreational marijuana in Colorado has added a twist to the situation.

“Blackmail is a real possibility for marijuana dispensaries here,” he said. “They are cutting into (the cartel’s) profits, who say it’s time to pay up. That puts everyone in jeopardy.”
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G M
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« Reply #408 on: May 13, 2016, 04:18:56 PM »

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/05/13/when-smuggling-colo-pot-not-even-skys-limit/83623226/

Funny how this works.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #409 on: May 21, 2016, 10:43:55 AM »

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/21/opinion/legalized-pot-free-trade.html?emc=edit_th_20160521&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=49641193&_r=0
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ccp
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« Reply #410 on: May 21, 2016, 12:31:12 PM »

I cannot make up my mind whether marijuana should be legalized or not.

I suppose we may as well and study it though with the knowledge that if the costs turn out to be greater than the benefits that rolling back the legalized status will be nearly impossible.

As for medical marijuana  I would prefer we get pharmaceutical companies to come up with drugs that are specific to particular cannabinoid receptors with specific actions with more targeted affects then just giving a prescription to say here go get high and relieve your depression, your pain , your anxiety, your PTSD blah blah blah. 
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G M
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« Reply #411 on: May 25, 2016, 08:11:06 AM »

http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20160524/NEWS01/160529830/Police-say-marijuana-robbery-led-to-killing-of-Fort-Lewis-College-student
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G M
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« Reply #412 on: May 25, 2016, 08:16:04 AM »


Must be a fluke!

http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20150316/NEWS01/150319682/Shots-fired-at-Iron-Horse-Inn-

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G M
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« Reply #413 on: May 25, 2016, 08:23:59 AM »


http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20150202/NEWS01/150209957/‘Customer’-at-pot-shop-arrested--

In the above case, the suspect made a serious attempt to disarm the female officer that first encountered him. It was a brutal fight for her to retain her sidearm.
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DougMacG
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« Reply #414 on: May 25, 2016, 11:18:28 AM »

marijuana-robbery-led-to-killing-of-Fort-Lewis-College-student
Must be a fluke!
http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20150316/NEWS01/150319682/Shots-fired-at-Iron-Horse-Inn-
http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20150202/NEWS01/150209957/‘Customer’-at-pot-shop-arrested--
In the above case, the suspect made a serious attempt to disarm the female officer that first encountered him. It was a brutal fight for her to retain her sidearm.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure what to make of individual crime stories.  I wonder whether these non-Colorado people were attracted in because of legalization.  Some of it is counter-intuitive like gun laws, that criminals and thugs care what is legal. 

Statistics seem to say crime is up:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-a-sabet-phd/crime-is-up-in-colorado-w_b_5663046.html
http://wspa.com/2015/10/30/how-is-colorado-doing-since-marijuana-legalization/
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/12/colorados_crime_rate_was_declining_until_they_legalized_marijuana.html

One point made is that since it is not legal federally, it is largely a cash business, inviting crime.  A point I would add is that fracking added crime to North Dakota.  Sudden change and an economic boom brings new people and those who can relocate that quickly and easily are not always the ones most grounded in good behavior. 

From the American Thinker link:


Retail stores opened in 2014.  This does not look good, but 1 or 2 data points is fairly short trend.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/02/17/marijuana-legalization-unlikely-to-blame-for-denver-crime-increase/
Marijuana-related crimes in Denver make up less than 1 percent of all offenses counted in the Uniform Crime Report and less than a half-percent of all NIBRS offenses.

[I wonder if there is a definitional issue in that?]

US crime rate trend:


How come we don't have 2015 data, and part of 2016? 
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G M
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« Reply #415 on: May 25, 2016, 11:33:17 AM »

"How come we don't have 2015 data, and part of 2016?"

Because it's UGLY. I was recently in a gang class at Rocky Mountain HIDTA (High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area) and the instructor was a former Maryland State Trooper that worked many specialized units and task forces in his career. He did a lot of work in Baltimore, including using Title III wiretaps against drug trafficking gangs, right when "The Wire" first came out.

On a break, I asked him what BPD and other agencies were doing after the riots. He responded pretty much only responding to drug seizures at Baltimore International Airport ot at the Ports. No more proactive investigations, just sheltering in place and waiting for retirement. So, the entire drug market in metro Baltimore is virtually legal. Funny enough, the crime rate has only skyrocketed.

Not just Baltimore, all across the US, this is happening.
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ccp
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« Reply #416 on: May 25, 2016, 11:40:04 AM »

One of my patients, a retired police officer who had worked in Baltimore. He said the whole scenario was predictable.

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G M
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« Reply #417 on: May 25, 2016, 11:44:07 AM »


"I'm not sure what to make of individual crime stories.  I wonder whether these non-Colorado people were attracted in because of legalization.  Some of it is counter-intuitive like gun laws, that criminals and thugs care what is legal."

Colorado has seen a massive influx of bipedal garbage since the "green rush" started. All sorts of homeless with criminal histories and warrants. It has changed the character of the small town I was born and raised in, to be sure.
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DougMacG
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« Reply #418 on: May 25, 2016, 12:28:18 PM »

My visits to Colo (Leadville and ski towns mostly) have not shown much change.  Otherwise law abiding people (it would seem) walk into government controlled stores.  Must have a DL to even see the products.  Not much need to sell retail illegally because users can buy it so easily.  Heavy users all have medical licenses, can you say "chronic pain"?  They buy the same product, avoid much of the tax.  I don't see much more open use of it on the sidewalks or ski areas than before or elsewhere.  Of course I don't see the real crimes that happen out of plain view. 

To my way of thinking, highly taxed and regulated is still not "legal".  You can't buy it - except through them.  You can't sell it.  You can't grow it - beyond 6 plants.  You can't take it out of state.  We can look at arrests in neighboring states to see the product leaving Colo.  Nebraska and Wyoming Highway patrol are on the lookout.  (By private message I would be interested in what state you are in.)  Out of state visitor can buy 1/4 oz per visit.  In state, 1 oz.  That isn't going to help a major dealer no matter how many visits made.  If a legal grow operation sells out the back door illegally, I assume they face loss of license, are put out of business.  I'm sure the cash register and the product inventories are targets for burglaries like a bank is, or liquor or jewelry store.  If those were new industries, they would attract new criminal attention too.

My questions, after the newness of this passes:
Do people smoke or ingest more legally than if still illegal?  Probably yes.
Do more people partake because it is legal?  Probably yes.
Do drivers under the influence drive worse?  That is still illegal but probably more widespread if usage is up.
Do marijuana users rape, murder, assault, burglarize more?   I would think mostly no.  They are just attracting a worse element from elsewhere.
Do more users of an entry, legal drug lead to more users of illegal heavier drugs, meth, heroine, etc.?
On the other side of it, will people who would otherwise have a criminal record for petty possession now have a clean record, get better jobs, etc.?   Apparently no, if the crime rate is up.

Paraphrasing Gov. Hickenlooper, We don't have this figured out yet, don't follow our lead.

New medical marijuana law in MN:  Must have terminal illness.  Must be in final year of your terminal illness.  I wonder if they will wait until the end of the year to prosecute, to see if you were telling the truth.
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G M
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« Reply #419 on: May 25, 2016, 12:47:09 PM »

Funny enough, the people with medical Marijuana cards in Colorado seemed to be 20-somethings with dreadlocks and the sort of terminal illness that allows you to snowboard 5 days a week.
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DougMacG
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« Reply #420 on: May 25, 2016, 06:18:22 PM »

Funny enough, the people with medical Marijuana cards in Colorado seemed to be 20-somethings with dreadlocks and the sort of terminal illness that allows you to snowboard 5 days a week.

Might also want to cross check disability payments and food stamps with the snowboarder season pass rolls.  Not a bad life...  And now free health care as long as you don't work.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #421 on: May 26, 2016, 12:31:12 AM »

Kind of unfair to blame Baltimore crime increase on anything other than the political leadership and the riots.
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G M
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« Reply #422 on: May 26, 2016, 07:09:05 AM »

Kind of unfair to blame Baltimore crime increase on anything other than the political leadership and the riots.


The Ferguson effect is of course, nationwide, but there are some places worse than others. Baltimore is paticularly bad for the reasons you cite above.
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G M
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« Reply #423 on: May 26, 2016, 05:06:34 PM »

**I wish people would read Reason magazine so they would know that legalization would get rid of the crime associated with marijuana cultivation.**

http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20160526/NEWS01/160529713/Deputies-seek-marijuana-thieves-in-home-invasion

Deputies seek marijuana thieves in home invasion
3 men sought in La Plata County crime
By Shane Benjamin Herald staff writer Article Last Updated: Thursday, May 26, 2016 12:37pm
Keywords: Crime, Marijuana,


A home invasion eerily similar to the one that occurred Tuesday in Durango was reported a week earlier in La Plata County, law enforcement said Thursday.

Related stories

Bail set for suspects in slaying of Fort Lewis College student
Police say marijuana robbery led to killing of Fort Lewis College student

In last week’s incident, three men reportedly entered a home in the 800 block of La Posta Road (County Road 213) south of Durango and stole $16,000 to $18,000 worth of marijuana, said Lt. Dan Bender, spokesman with the La Plata County Sheriff’s Office.

Upon entering the house, the suspects said they were Drug Enforcement Administration agents, handcuffed the two occupants, put pillow cases over their heads and released pepper spray, Bender said.

The robbers made a clean getaway.

“We have no suspect information at this time,” he said.

The residents were in legal possession of the marijuana, Bender said, suggesting they had a license of some kind. Efforts to reach the county Thursday for information about marijuana licenses that have been issued in that area were unsuccessful.

The victims, who were not injured, reported the incident at 3:37 a.m. Tuesday, May 17 – eight minutes earlier than this week’s home invasion and robbery, which was reported at 3:45 a.m. Tuesday.

Law enforcement officials don’t believe the incidents are connected.

“Even though there are some similarities, there’s no connection between the two cases,” Bender said.

In this week’s incident, three men entered a home in the SkyRidge subdivision, used zip ties to restrain the occupants, and planned to steal a “large amount” of marijuana, according to the Durango Police Department.

Something went wrong, and one of the suspects shot Samuel Xarius Gordon, 20, once in the abdomen. He died from his injuries.

Police found at least 10 pounds of marijuana inside the house.

Four suspects, including a getaway driver, were stopped and arrested while leaving the scene. They are being held on suspicion of first-degree murder.

The robbers from last week’s home invasion remain at large.

The Sheriff’s Office declined to release further information, saying the case remains under investigation. Anyone with information is asked to call Crimestoppers at 247-1112.
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ccp
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« Reply #424 on: May 27, 2016, 07:25:31 AM »

Good story for a change:

http://www.businessinsider.com/duane-jackson-kashflow-interview-2016-5
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G M
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« Reply #425 on: June 01, 2016, 12:30:32 PM »

http://kdvr.com/2016/05/24/prosecutors-colorado-sees-increase-in-murders-motivated-by-marijuana/

Prosecutors: Colorado sees increase in homicides motivated by marijuana
POSTED 9:58 PM, MAY 24, 2016, BY DAVID MITCHELL, UPDATED AT 06:40AM, MAY 25, 2016

 
DENVER -- Some prosecutors in Colorado say they're noticing a new trend: An increase in murders motivated by marijuana.

In Aurora, the last 10 of 15 drug-related homicide cases were connected to marijuana.

Arapahoe County District Attorney George Brauchler said it's not the big-time dealers who are involved. For the most part, it has been the small-time ones on the streets.

In Jefferson County, a burned-up car had a dead body inside, and investigators later determined the victim was harvesting marijuana nearly 100 miles away in Agate. When he was killed, he was stuffed into the trunk.

"There is increased crime, sometimes violent crime, associated with legalization of marijuana," Brauchler said. "That's not what you'd expect. You'd expect the harder-core drugs."

Man recent marijuana murder cases involve small-time street dealers getting killed for their marijuana and money.

"If cash is the only way to acquire marijuana, crime follows cash," Brauchler said.

Mark Chafant, 19, is one of many victims. He was allegedly trying to sell a bag of marijuana to some teenagers when he was shot and killed. Calvin Banks and two other juveniles were charged with the crime.

Other cases involve local dealers accused of killing tourists. Brauchler believes the legalization of marijuana is partly to blame for the rise in crime.

"It is easier for there to be black market in a legalized system than there was before," he said.

Brauchler said until law enforcement figures out a way to slow the flow of black market marijuana and the cash that comes with it, the marijuana-related death rate in the state will continue to grow.
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ccp
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« Reply #426 on: June 02, 2016, 03:57:01 PM »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/buprenorphine-suboxone-hhs_us_574f850fe4b0c3752dcc7ec3?utm_hp_ref=politics

"Under current federal regulations, doctors can treat only 30 patients at a time in the first year they’re certified to prescribe buprenorphine (commonly sold in the U.S. as Suboxone), a medication that can reduce opioid cravings and ward off harsh withdrawal symptoms. Doctors can receive authorization to treat as many as 100 patients in subsequent years. Access to the medication can be especially difficult in rural counties. Addicts may have to drive hundreds of miles to find a doctor who can prescribe them the life-saving medication."

Oh THIS IS TERRIBLE.  The addicts may have to drive hundreds of miles to save their lives.  Big deal .  Poor babies. 
I can tell you from experience they will drive THOUSANDS of miles to pick up drugs to get high or/and to sell and to party.

Look addicts have to WANT to quit.  They have to make a decision.  As usual the libs are going too far.  

« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 04:00:29 PM by ccp » Logged
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #427 on: June 06, 2016, 09:12:12 AM »

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/legal-marijuana-killing-cartels/#wwaMPuK2hqopphGH.01
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G M
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« Reply #428 on: June 06, 2016, 04:30:16 PM »


I have already debunked these loonatarian talking points. Mexican DTOs and other criminal organizations are involved in producing and dealing Colorado marijuana nationwide. Now, Mexican super lab meth gets traded for Colorado weed for distribution. It's got the cartels operating in Colorado.
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ccp
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« Reply #429 on: June 06, 2016, 06:11:17 PM »

"Mexican DTOs and other criminal organizations are involved in producing and dealing Colorado marijuana nationwide."

GM
How?  by funding front businesses? by bribery?  political corruption at the local and state levels.  How is a legitimate company cannot supply people?
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G M
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« Reply #430 on: June 07, 2016, 08:04:39 AM »

"Mexican DTOs and other criminal organizations are involved in producing and dealing Colorado marijuana nationwide."

GM
How?  by funding front businesses? by bribery?  political corruption at the local and state levels.  How is a legitimate company cannot supply people?

http://www.weeklystandard.com/it-wasnt-supposed-to-work-this-way/article/2002373

It Wasn't Supposed to Work This Way
Foreign drug cartels come to Colorado.

MAY 23, 2016 | By DANIEL HALPER
  

Elaborate conversions of homes into pot factories require sophisticated--but illegal and dangerous--electrical infrastructure.
Credit: Pueblo County Sheriff's Office

Colorado Springs
Local authorities in Pueblo, just 40 miles south of Colorado Springs, were recently alerted by a vigilant resident to a possible illegal marijuana grow operation. Within days, on March 31, sheriff’s deputies from the Special Investigations Narcotics Section raided a single-family home that was in the process of being converted into a "grow house." Authorities discovered 127 marijuana plants, over $100,000 in growing equipment, and two Cuban nationals.

At first, no one seemed to take particular note of the individuals, Adriel Trujillo Daniel, 28, and Leosbel Ledesma Quintana, 41, who had recently moved to Colorado from Florida. They were arrested on felony drug charges but local authorities initially believed it was an isolated event.

But in the span of the next week and a half, local authorities would arrest at least four more individuals in the Pueblo area in similar cases, with similar backgrounds. All were recent transplants to the state. All were reported by neighbors or by other Pueblo residents who had witnessed suspicious activity. All were transforming residential homes into elaborate marijuana grow operations. And all were Cuban nationals.

"We have quite a bit of evidence" to believe they are members of "Cuban cartels," Pueblo sheriff Kirk Taylor says in an interview.

Local, state, and federal officials believe it's not just isolated to Pueblo. "It's across the entire state of Colorado," DEA assistant special agent in charge Kevin Merrill says. "It's just basically taken over the state, these residential grows."

Merrill likens the danger to that of meth labs in homes. Besides the criminal element, turning a house into a greenhouse invariably destroys the home. "The destruction of the homes and neighborhoods is even greater."

It is what Colorado Springs mayor John Suthers calls "the total nightmare" scenario, a byproduct of the state's recent legalization of first medicinal, and later recreational, marijuana.

People from out of town or even foreign countries move to Colorado and "buy or lease houses by the hundreds if not thousands," explains Suthers, who previously served 10 years as attorney general of the state.

The new residents then convert the residential homes to industrial grow operations. They're "basically trashing the houses because they're making so much freaking money they don't care, and growing hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of plants in each house. And transporting it out of state to marijuana markets nationally and internationally. Literally. Marijuana is going back to Mexico from Colorado," asserts Suthers.

This criminal activity undermines a key argument used for legalizing marijuana in the first place. "One of the big arguments was, we're going to get the cartels out of the marijuana business. Because we're going to have all these legitimate businesses selling it. The Mexican cartels are going to dry up and go away," he says.

But now things are different. "Mexican cartels are no longer sending marijuana into Colorado, they're now growing it in Colorado and sending it back to Mexico and every place else."

With legalization of medicinal and recreational marijuana came the ability for locals to grow up to six plants at home—and sometimes up to 99, if they are a designated caregiver under the state law that legalized medicinal marijuana. "That has created an enforcement nightmare for the police," the state's former top cop says. "But it's going beyond that. Because of that aura of no enforcement, organized crime has come to Colorado to grow the marijuana."

"The surprising element is Cuban—Cuban cartels," Suthers says.

The DEA official insists the international element is increasing. "It's not just Cubans. We have Vietnamese-based organizations, Russian organized people. But we have seen a large influx of Cubans coming here. And we believe that all the organizations are here because we have a perceived lack of enforcement."

Thanks to the ubiquity of marijuana in the state of Colorado, when they come, "they don't really have to hide," says the DEA official. "Their [main] risk of arrest or prosecution is when they move the marijuana outside the state."

Another reason the problem is particular to Colorado—and not in the other 22 states and the District of Columbia that have some form of legal marijuana—is that Colorado has uniquely loose medical marijuana laws, which are meant to allow the ailing to grow substantial crops at home. "In Colorado, if you go to a physician and you get a recommendation, you can grow 99 plants, so if you live with four others, you can grow almost 500," says Merrill, the DEA official. He has never seen any sort of mid- to large-scale home operation actually being used for medical marijuana. It is one of "the unintended consequences of the medical marijuana" law, Merrill contends.

The state's marijuana czar appears to agree with Merrill's contention—and has called for further regulation. "There has been evidence that people will abandon the black market for a regulated market, even at higher prices. However, as long as there is both an economic incentive to grow in Colorado and ship out of state, as well as legal loopholes to allow unlicensed individuals to grow large quantities of marijuana, it will be difficult for law enforcement to shut down the black and gray markets," says Andrew Freedman, the coordinator of marijuana policy for Colorado. "Interestingly, these loopholes are found in our medical marijuana laws, not in our recreational marijuana laws."

Which suggests John Suthers may find widespread support when he soon proposes to the legislature to eliminate the influx of foreign crime by outlawing home grows. That's a law even the legal growers and sellers of marijuana will likely support.

"A few more of these huge busts, and there will be lots of them over the next several months," Suthers predicts, and "I think they're going to say, give me a break, let's clean that problem out."

Daniel Halper is online editor of The Weekly Standard.
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ccp
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« Reply #431 on: June 07, 2016, 08:15:07 AM »

Thanks GM

Perhaps the answer to this is make marijuana legal in all 50 states.  So simply using Colorado as a base for growing and then transporting across states lines to sell is not so profitable.

That said I am very ambivalent about legalized marijuana in the first place and also it's medicinal value which I think is very highly exaggerated by pot heads and those seeking profit.

OTOH we may as well try making it legal say for a defined period of time to see if it works overall.
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DougMacG
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« Reply #432 on: June 07, 2016, 09:04:09 AM »

"Local authorities in Pueblo, just 40 miles south of Colorado Springs, were recently alerted by a vigilant resident to a possible illegal marijuana grow operation. Within days, on March 31, sheriff’s deputies from the Special Investigations Narcotics Section raided a single-family home that was in the process of being converted into a "grow house." Authorities discovered 127 marijuana plants, over $100,000 in growing equipment, and two Cuban nationals.

At first, no one seemed to take particular note of the individuals, Adriel Trujillo Daniel, 28, and Leosbel Ledesma Quintana, 41, who had recently moved to Colorado from Florida. They were arrested on felony drug charges but local authorities initially believed it was an isolated event."


Kind of an obvious point, what they were doing is NOT legal in Colorado, keywords illegal and felony drug charges.

100k of equipment involves heavy electric usage that is detectable in a rapid leap on the utility bill.  If law enforcement doesn't know about it, Xcel Energy does.  Large grow houses are visible on infrared aerial photography.  (Freedom from Electric usage monitoring and aerial photography are two areas of liberty I assume we already lost!) 127 flowering plants have to breathe and 'exhale'.  With the right breeze, the neighbors know they live next to a large floral garden.

You are allowed 6 plants (in Colo), which if done widely and sold or shared in moderation with friends (illegally) would serve to take the wind out of the sails of the cartels at least on this one drug.  Beyond 6 plants, I would assume the electrical alterations required are all illegal and break residential zoning laws etc beyond the original violation.  Like the mafia, they are also breaking tax laws.

G M would know better than me, but I think it is a law enforcement choice of how hard to hunt down illegal grow operations and prosecute them.  My main point is that what is described here is no more legal in Colo than in a non-'legalized' state.

There is a contention between state and federal laws in Colo.  What the state should do in compromise to the dispute is hand over all the activity that goes beyond the limits of Colorado law to the Feds.  Use the personal level legalization as a trap for cartel activity, especially the inter-state and international types.  I don't think Colo wants to be safe haven for this.  The question that still remains is whether our open border Feds want to enforce or prosecute the laws either.
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ccp
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« Reply #433 on: June 07, 2016, 09:09:38 AM »

"You are allowed 6 plants (in Colo), which if done widely and sold or shared in moderation with friends (illegally) would serve to take the wind out of the sails of the cartels at least on this one drug. "

Oh.
So it is a matter of scale.  Well then what is the point of drug cartels moving to Colorado then?

May as well stay in Florida and where ever else they are now?

Question is may we may as well make it legal Federally?
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DougMacG
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« Reply #434 on: June 07, 2016, 09:33:59 AM »

"Oh. So it is a matter of scale.  Well then what is the point of drug cartels moving to Colorado then?"


I suppose that because it is only a matter of scale, neighbors getting a whiff of it might be less inclined to make a complaint of it.  G M might know better whether any collection of these anecdotal stories means there is more activity coming in than otherwise would.  One of his points is that 'legalization' did not make the illegal activities cease.  I think the perception of legalization is giving the state a friendlier perception attracting these types, cartels and young males not tied to the traditional responsibilities of job, marriage and mortgage.  But if law enforcement is up to the task, that lure becomes a trap.  Serving a federal felony time in Colo won't be much different or better than serving it in Florida or wherever else.
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G M
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« Reply #435 on: June 07, 2016, 02:53:44 PM »

"Oh. So it is a matter of scale.  Well then what is the point of drug cartels moving to Colorado then?"


I suppose that because it is only a matter of scale, neighbors getting a whiff of it might be less inclined to make a complaint of it.  G M might know better whether any collection of these anecdotal stories means there is more activity coming in than otherwise would.  One of his points is that 'legalization' did not make the illegal activities cease.  I think the perception of legalization is giving the state a friendlier perception attracting these types, cartels and young males not tied to the traditional responsibilities of job, marriage and mortgage.  But if law enforcement is up to the task, that lure becomes a trap.  Serving a federal felony time in Colo won't be much different or better than serving it in Florida or wherever else.

It's now a matter of looking for a needle in a pile of needles. The sheer numbers overwhelm Colorado's law enforcement capacity at this point.
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G M
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« Reply #436 on: June 11, 2016, 07:20:41 AM »

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nevada/more-incidents-workplace-pot-use-reported-after-legalization-colorado-expert-says

Unexpectedly!
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ccp
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« Reply #437 on: June 11, 2016, 08:56:15 AM »

Testing is difficult and fraught with legal implications due to the prolonged positive results from testing in smokers.

Here is one site already warning and notifying people in my opinion on how to beat a test:
http://www.leafscience.com/2014/04/22/how-long-thc-stay-system/

Therefore someone could ALWAYS use a Hillary like defense, "test is positive" because I smoked when I was off over weekend".  End of story.

I suppose if employer could document odor on clothing or breath etc. but that becomes she said he said or subjective and becomes a legal nightmare.



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DougMacG
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« Reply #438 on: June 11, 2016, 11:02:31 PM »

It's now a matter of looking for a needle in a pile of needles. The sheer numbers overwhelm Colorado's law enforcement capacity at this point.

Very interesting.  And no turning back.
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ccp
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« Reply #439 on: June 15, 2016, 06:58:30 PM »

I never knew there is a DEA museum:

https://www.deamuseum.org/ccp/opium/index.html
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 08:32:55 PM by Crafty_Dog » Logged
ccp
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« Reply #440 on: June 17, 2016, 05:24:34 PM »

This is exactly what I figured would happen with the love-a-thon with addiction:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/addiction-treatment-industry-ethics_us_575f3fa5e4b0e4fe5143865c?section=
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