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Author Topic: Empty hand questions.  (Read 2807 times)
cfr
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Posts: 15


« on: May 09, 2008, 10:54:48 AM »

Howdy all. I have asked questions like this on other forums, but am intrigued by Dog Brothers ability/ willingness to analyze what their doing and make honest assessments in an effort to improve.

MY DISCLAIMER

*********************************************************************************************************
My questions are in no way meant to start a debate, and are certainly not meant to insult. I am asking these questions to this group because I really want your insights.
*********************************************************************************************************

With that out of the way, let me say that my experience in MA's is not all that extensive:

1) About 15 months combination of Muay Thai/ JKD/ and FMA. Then I moved to Az.
2) About 2 years some JKD, some kickboxing/ boxing, some BJJ. I have a real love for this type of training (lots of hitting pads, sparring, resisting opponent). This is in a garage with a guy that has a lot more experience than I do in the above mentioned styles. No belts, ranking, etc. which is fine with me. Recently though an interest in weapons came up, and we found a guy who teaches FMA. He has joined us and we go back and forth on training days between the different styles.

I can honestly say that self defense is probably a secondary benefit behind fun when it comes to my training. One of the concerns I have is that splitting the training time up may leave my empty hand striking skills dwindling. I'm not the best empty hand striker in the world, but I don't want the striking skills that I do have to diminish because I'm spending some precious training time doing sticks. When I've asked this type of question before I heard "sticks translate into empty hands". Fair enough I suppose. I don't know enough about FMA to argue, so I'll assume this is accurate. My question though is about power and speed the ability for these strikes to really do anything. A boxer for example constantly practices boxing and gets better and better as time goes on. He strikes harder and faster the more he practices.
But what about the FMA practitioner? If almost all training is with sticks, whats to guarantee power/ speed will be there when striking empty handed? Have any of you tried it? What was the outcome? I'm sure many of you have tried other styles, how does the empty hand striking in FMA compare to it?

Again I'm not trying to start anything here, just get some insights from folks who are obviously open to asses what their doing.


Thanks in advace, Chris.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2008, 11:33:19 AM »

Woof CFR:

Try this thread:  http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=597.0

The Adventure continues,
Crafty Dog
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Maxx
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Posts: 482


« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2008, 12:01:03 PM »

Crafty,
 Where on the dog brothers site can you buy that video?
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cfr
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Posts: 15


« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2008, 01:18:54 PM »

Woof CFR:

Try this thread:  http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=597.0

The Adventure continues,
Crafty Dog

Awesome, thanks. I'd woof back, but am unclear as to if that's only for real Dog Brothers or not (don't want to step on any toes)Huh
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2008, 01:38:39 PM »

Maxx:

Why, right here  grin 
http://dogbrothers.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=90&osCsid=ec9f1f04083b901340b0aa11bcd7822e

CFR:

Not sure why you would think the thread was for DBs only, but these forums are for everyone of good spirit (see Rules of the Road thread at the top of this forum for details) so please dive right in.

TAC,
CD
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Jonobos
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« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2008, 02:16:22 PM »

I have some thoughts on the subject, although my experience is admittedly a little weak... mostly just your average hormone ridden scuffles between young 16-25 year old males.

I had to be shown how the angles of attack were similar. Once I was shown my brain sort of took over and started looking for the empty hand conversions. They are hiding away in that stick and knife material. You just have to look for them. This is hard to do because most of the movements are not similar to boxing, and boxing is what most of us think of when we think of unarmed combat. Left lead, striking with the knuckles. If you can break out of that mentality a world of other options open.

Consider angles 1 and 2 with a stick. You can attack forehand, or back, with either stick. Transfer this idea to empty hand and you have double your possible attacks provided you get away from the idea of striking with the knuckles.Think slaps and hammer fists. Break down your simple 6 count sinawali. Turn the first strike into an attack on the opponents lead hand (pulling his guard down!) Your second attack into a head shot of your choosing, and your third shot into either another head shot, or another attack on his far hand to open the other side for attack. With some driving footwork you have the kali equivalent to a "straight blast!" Pretty cool in my amateur opinion!  grin  I see the "straight blast in MMA all the time." It seems to work.

I had the privilege to be at a seminar in Virginia with Crafty last Sunday and to go over some of the "Los Triques" material. I felt almost stupid for not seeing how this stuff converted before... but sure enough it easily does!

I am to old to jump into the MMA scene, but I hope that someone in FMA world will soon!

Jon
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 02:34:33 PM by Jonobos » Logged

When life gives you lemons make lemonade
When life gives you hemlock, do NOT make hemlockade!
Maxx
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Posts: 482


« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2008, 03:00:01 PM »

I prefer the Grab, Pin against a object and hitting the person alot with Haymakers, UpperCuts and hooks..Then a toss to the ground  grin
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cfr
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Posts: 15


« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2008, 03:10:08 PM »

Maxx:

Why, right here  grin 
http://dogbrothers.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=90&osCsid=ec9f1f04083b901340b0aa11bcd7822e

CFR:

Not sure why you would think the thread was for DBs only, but these forums are for everyone of good spirit (see Rules of the Road thread at the top of this forum for details) so please dive right in.

TAC,
CD

I know the forum is open to all, it was the "woof" I was questioning ("I'd woof back, but.....").
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cfr
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Posts: 15


« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2008, 03:15:36 PM »

I had to be shown how the angles of attack were similar. Once I was shown my brain sort of took over and started looking for the empty hand conversions. They are hiding away in that stick and knife material. You just have to look for them. This is hard to do because most of the movements are not similar to boxing, and boxing is what most of us think of when we think of unarmed combat. Left lead, striking with the knuckles. If you can break out of that mentality a world of other options open.

I can see how that would be, and would be the first to admit I have the mentality of "boxing only" for strikes.

Consider angles 1 and 2 with a stick. You can attack forehand, or back, with either stick. Transfer this idea to empty hand and you have double your possible attacks provided you get away from the idea of striking with the knuckles.Think slaps and hammer fists. Break down your simple 6 count sinawali. Turn the first strike into an attack on the opponents lead hand (pulling his guard down!) Your second attack into a head shot of your choosing, and your third shot into either another head shot, or another attack on his far hand to open the other side for attack. With some driving footwork you have the kali equivalent to a "straight blast!" Pretty cool in my amateur opinion!  grin  I see the "straight blast in MMA all the time." It seems to work.

I'll give it a shot, thanks for the ideas!
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califkali
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Posts: 40


« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2008, 10:10:02 PM »

The siniwali dvd has some good stick to hand with Burton and a young Lester. ( Top Dog's skill is amazingly displayed in this vid. )
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Doug Sutton
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Posts: 5


« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2008, 10:50:06 PM »

Hey CFR,

What part of Arizona are you in?  I'm in north central Scottsdale, near the 101 and Shea. 
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cfr
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Posts: 15


« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2008, 10:59:45 PM »

Anthem (about 30 - 40 minutes away).
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Guide Dog
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Posts: 835


« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2008, 11:21:32 AM »

I like your question, cfr.  I will answer your question to the best of my ability.

The DBMA power strikes are a great block of material to teach for anyone of any level.  When I teach them, I always put an axe handle into play, because it forces the practitioner to complete the swings with their body, and not their arm.  What you will find over time, is that you start to do all of your stick strikes with your body behind them. 

Indeed, all of your martial art should be coming from your body.  As you mentioned in your first post, the boxer will improve their strength and power over time.  That is because their form will improve and they will begin to throw their punches with their body.  You really need to do this in all martial art, but some arts just get you there faster.  A nice Thai pad workout will gas you pretty good if it lasts long enough, regardless of your level.  After your strength and speed have diminished due to lack of energy, the only way that you will generate power is through good form.  Good form demands that your body be behind your strikes, whether there is a stick in your hand or not, and even when you are kicking or grappling.

So you could say that learning to generate power with a stick will help your empty hand and vice versa, if you can begin to focus on generating power from your body, regardless of what kind of martial art you are practicing.   grin
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Dr. Bryan Stoops, Ed.D.
Semi-Private/Private Instruction
Offered in Chino Hills, California
JKD/FMA/Silat/muay Thai/DBMA,
Savate/Wing Chun/grappling
http://stoops-martial-arts-academy.com/
bryan@stoopsma.com
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