Karambit Vs. straight blades

[Growling Dog]

hey maxx
i was using a mantis karambit, i am thinking of odering the Emerson. i will say one thing as far as damage the karambit  sure dishes it out but its not a tool that has the versatility as a regular knife if it is dropped or picked up off the ground

[Maxx]

hey maxx
i was using a mantis karambit, i am thinking of odering the Emerson. i will say one thing as far as damage the karambit  sure dishes it out but its not a tool that has the versatility as a regular knife if it is dropped or picked up off the ground

There are alot of things that I love about a Karambit and there are some things I just can't get over and it's the stabbing power of a Straight Blade. I feel that in alot of Tangles or situations a straight blade can do far more damage and you can even get a " One Hit Wonder" out of a Straight blade and what I mean about a one hit wonder is a good lucky shot to a vital organ.

Karambit it seem's that you only have two options for such a thing. 1 hitting the throat area and 2 slash the lower belly open. I do practice some stabbing motion but I know that you can only use so much of the tip to stab with but it is a stab.

I don't know, Can you Enlighten me on it's use or reccommend a good read on Karambit ? My Karambit skills are limited to Kali pattern strikes and basic Silat skills. I am currently trying to get over to pasadena to train alittle with the FCS guys. They told me that they don't really use all the flashy stuff that Ray uses but their Curriculum for blade is with the Karambit.

Awhile back I mentioned I had purchased the Cold steel Tiger Claw Karambit. Has anyone had a chance to see it or hold this?



"NOTE" Thought I would throw this up. There is a really great guy out there who ships fast and makes custom trainers. I ordered a Custom Karambit Trainer modeled off the Emerson Combat Karambit. He ships fast and is a awesome guy. He can also make you any custom trainer you want with just a outline of the item

Here is the link to his shop    http://www.normstrainingblades.com/Training%20Knives.htm#Karambit_Model_3

Next is a great site to get a good read out of about Karambits     http://www.karambit.com/

[sgtmac_46]

My question has to do with the opinion of those experienced with Karambit work on the adviseability of carrying a Karambit by law enforcement in retraining the firearm in a gun takeaway situation.

Well made arguments have been that the Karambit is a limited use weapon.  In the context i'm wishing to discuss it, however, that limited role becomes it's primary role, specifically as a supplement to the firearm and an aid in it's retention.

Allow me to present the scenario as i'm working on it right now.....a fixed-blade karambit in the style of the Emerson fixed blade carried on the belt on the support side.  In the event of a gun takeaway attempt, the Karambit would be drawn and used to cut the attacker off of the grab attempt by slicing tendons, nerves and muscles of the attackers arms while the dominant hand maintains strong grip on the gun in combination with an effective retention holster.

As such the reach and versatility of other knife designs are not a real issue of advantage here.  The attacker has placed himself in extreme close proximity, grappling range so to speak.  He has also extended his arms in order to reach the officers sidearm.

What is at the core of my thinking in view of the Karambit is it's ability to dig under and sever nerves, muscles and tendons.  Deep penetration of organs is not an issue in the above scenario as i've seen men on the street who have been stabbed in the liver and lungs continue to be able to struggle at full power for up to a minute or more.  My goal in the above situation is to immediately destroy the underlying structure of the attackers arms by attacking directly the nerves, muscles and tendons, thereby immediately destroying his ability to remove the firearm from the officers holster by taking away the voluntary use of his hands.  In the above scenario I do not want to have to rely on blood loss and vital organ damage during a prolonged struggle to end the attackers threat.

Any suggestions toward this?  Is this realistic?  Is this supported by current Karambit training?

I'd be very interested in hearing what Crafty and others think about this concept to aid in firearm weapon retention, vis-a-vis law enforcement defensive tactics.  In addition if anyone is familiar with an already existing training program addressing that exact concept I would be most grateful to be pointed in the right direction.

[G M]

Sgt.,

A few questions:

1. Does your dept. allow for a fixed blade to be worn on your duty belt? I can imagine the fainting spells those with brass on their collars might have at the sight.

2. You have a retention holster, do you have a retention sheath for the kerambit? The more stuff you wear, the more an opponent has to grab onto in close quarters. Just as it sucks to gets shot with your own gun, getting cut by one's own edged weapon would have to suck too.

3. Why the kerambit vs. other blade designs? http://www.hideawayknife.com/main.php  or http://www.lapolicegear.com/kabarknives.html

[sgtmac_46]

Sgt.,

A few questions:

1. Does your dept. allow for a fixed blade to be worn on your duty belt? I can imagine the fainting spells those with brass on their collars might have at the sight.

2. You have a retention holster, do you have a retention sheath for the kerambit? The more stuff you wear, the more an opponent has to grab onto in close quarters. Just as it sucks to gets shot with your own gun, getting cut by one's own edged weapon would have to suck too.

3. Why the kerambit vs. other blade designs? http://www.hideawayknife.com/main.php  or http://www.lapolicegear.com/kabarknives.html

  All very good questions.

1. I'm the training officer and I more or less have a strong influence on policy.   Ultimately a less 'radical' but similar design, like the TDI may be the actual choice.

2. I don't have a particular design in mind, i'm still at the very infancy of experimenting with the concept.  However, I envision wearing the knife on the inside of the belt behind my Taser X26 where I can reach the ring from above but it can't even be seen from the front.  Of course the weapon retention tactic for the knife is the same for the Taser....draw duty weapon and fire at close range until the threat ceases.

3. The Karambit or other similar forward swept blade design that simulates the 'ripping' action of a talon....because I want to insure that the cut on the forearms or bicep are suitably deep enough to damage the use of the hands.  The TDI is another blade design i'm looking at as well because it has the same forward swept shape.

[G M]

Sgt.,

I'm pretty sure i've seen some edged weapon techniques demonstrated as part of a weapon retention system somewhere. It was probably at an ASLET seminar years ago. I'd suggest looking at www.mwarrior.com 's weapon retention/disarming system. It's the best system for law enforcement i've seen.

Why focus on cutting the bad guy's limb when an attempted disarm is a deadly force scenario? www.posai.org has a good model use of force policy for edged weapon carry for officers, in case you need one.

[Maxx]

@ sgtmac_46  - So I take it you carry a Karambit?

[Maxx]

So here is another question..Anyone here carry a fixed blade?