DBMA Martial Arts Forum > Martial Arts Topics
Knife Law
Crafty_Dog:
Knife law is varies from jurisdiction to jurisdicition. This thread is to help us know what the laws are, where to find them, to discuss them and so forth. We open with a post from the Kerambit vs. Straight knife thread by James in response to a question from me:
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Crafty:
I will do my best.
California Penal Code 653k Legal knife stuff. But note, no mention of length; any length is therefore ok. Dirks, daggers, fixed blades, folders etc. are legal. Switchblades, cane knives, etc. are illegal.
California Penal Code 12020 Street Carry Laws...Fixed blades must be openly carried; note any possible weapon, i.e. a screwdriver carried concealed can be considered a dagger and you could be in violation. Non switchblade pocket knives that are in the closed position can legally be carried concealed or open carry.
California Penal Code 626.10 Basically, don't carry a knife K-12. However on a college campus while you may not carry a fixed blade, you may carry a folder of any length.
Los Angeles City Ordinance I am sorry, I don't know the Ordinance, but I do know that LA prohibits open carry (and remember State Law says no concealed carry for a fixed blade) of ANY knife over 3". This would include folders. However, if you carry your folder 100% concealed, and it is over 3", this would seem to be legal but...
NOTE, nowhere in any CA Law (in contrast to some other states) is INTENT mentioned. Intent is not an issue until you use the knife; but that is a whole other discussion.
Crafty, I hope the above helps.
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Maybe :lol:
I certainly appreciate your giving us the sections of the CA code involved and your summary of them. May I push my luck further and ask for the URLs and/or the actual language of the statutes?
Also, may I suggest what remains open on the question of intent is whether one is allowed to carry ANYTHING with the intent of it being a weapon? A baseball bat is legal , , , for baseball. A bat for the purpose of a weapon may not be. Anyone?
CD
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JDN:
Maybe :lol:
I certainly appreciate your giving us the sections of the CA code involved and your summary of them. May I push my luck further and ask for the URLs and/or the actual language of the statutes?
Also, may I suggest what remains open on the question of intent is whether one is allowed to carry ANYTHING with the intent of it being a weapon? A baseball bat is legal , , , for baseball. A bat for the purpose of a weapon may not be. Anyone?
CD
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Crafty; sorry my computer skills are limited :-D
As for baseball, pipes, etc. the way it was explained to me is that "if you use it in
an unlawful manner, there could be a weapon's charge.". But there is no law prohibiting you
from carrying a baseball bat in your car. Nor do you have to explain why you have it.
In contrast, if you are carrying a screwdriver, knitting needle, etc. in your pants pocket
concealed, it might be considered a "dagger" and you could be charged under PC 12020
et al even if your "intent" was only to fix your front door.
Crafty_Dog:
Which brings me to my point.
If a LEO pulls over someone with a baseball bat on his front seat, and conversation reveals no baseball game in the near past or future, and upon query as to the reason for the bat the answer is given "Self Defense", I'm thinking this could lead to legally unhappy consequences.
Re Section 12020, I'm thinking the same applies to that screwdriver in your pocket. If frisked per a "Terry stop" (calling all LEOs, am I using the term correctly?) i.e. a pat down search and the screwdriver turns up and your answer is "self-defense", again I am thinking your intent could lead to legally unhappy consequences.
Yes?
JDN:
Crafty,
--- Quote from: Crafty_Dog on May 23, 2008, 09:51:27 PM ---Which brings me to my point.
If a LEO pulls over someone with a baseball bat on his front seat, and conversation reveals no baseball game in the near past or future, and upon query as to the reason for the bat the answer is given "Self Defense", I'm thinking this could lead to legally unhappy consequences.
Re Section 12020, I'm thinking the same applies to that screwdriver in your pocket. If frisked per a "Terry stop" (calling all LEOs, am I using the term correctly?) i.e. a pat down search and the screwdriver turns up and your answer is "self-defense", again I am thinking your intent could lead to legally unhappy consequences.
Yes?
--- End quote ---
I think the two items are different. No law that I know of specifically refers to or describes a baseball bat. Of course, if I use the baseball bat, a pipe, golf club, etc. illegally, a weapons charge may result and lead to "unhappy consequences". However, you have no obligation to tell the officer why you have the baseball bat, golf club, etc. nor is there any thing he can charge you with even if you do say "self defense".
In contrast, a screwdriver can legally be interpreted as a sharp pointy thing, i.e. a dagger and therefore by definition illegal (12020) to carry hidden. He pats you down, finds that you are carrying it concealed and therefore it is an illegal weapon, which then probably will lead to your "legally unhappy consequences."
Another interesting question might have been, if I was stopped by the officer in LA and he noticed my 6" screwdriver on the seat next to me; what would he do? Probably nothing, but IF he asked, "what is the screwdriver for?" and I said, "self defense", he would be entitled to arrest me for having a dagger longer than 3" (LA City Limit).
But the issue still is not "intent". The issue is whether the instrument is legal to carry or not.
james
Crafty_Dog:
"Another interesting question might have been, if I was stopped by the officer in LA and he noticed my 6" screwdriver on the seat next to me; what would he do? Probably nothing, but IF he asked, "what is the screwdriver for?" and I said, "self defense", he would be entitled to arrest me for having a dagger longer than 3" (LA City Limit).
"But the issue still is not "intent". The issue is whether the instrument is legal to carry or not."
Disagree. By your own words it is precisely the intent that turns it into a dagger.
As for the right to not answer, I suppose so-- but I submit that an answer the equivalent of "I don't have to tell you" is likely to heighten the LEO's propensity to make all the negative inferences he can and act upon them. Yes?
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