Dog Brothers Public Forum

HOME | PUBLIC FORUM | MEMBERS FORUM | INSTRUCTORS FORUM | TRIBE FORUM

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
June 25, 2016, 09:05:51 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Welcome to the Dog Brothers Public Forum.
95513 Posts in 2314 Topics by 1081 Members
Latest Member: Martel
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  Dog Brothers Public Forum
|-+  Politics, Religion, Science, Culture and Humanities
| |-+  Politics & Religion
| | |-+  Israel, and its neighbors
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 43 44 [45] Print
Author Topic: Israel, and its neighbors  (Read 368147 times)
DougMacG
Power User
***
Posts: 8009


« Reply #2200 on: May 04, 2016, 10:45:17 AM »

Walter Russell Mead points out that larger failures and threats in the Middle East make the Palestinean issue smaller:  http://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/05/02/the-arab-implosion-continues/

In related news, NATO upgrades ties with Israel.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-04/nato-upgrades-ties-with-israel-amid-mounting-regional-threats?
Logged
ccp
Power User
***
Posts: 5612


« Reply #2201 on: May 04, 2016, 10:52:45 AM »

That is good.  Israel will be kicked out once Trump defunds Nato........ cry
Logged
Crafty_Dog
Administrator
Power User
*****
Posts: 37022


« Reply #2202 on: May 04, 2016, 10:12:42 PM »

Israel's Palestinian Dilemmas
by Efraim Inbar
BESA Center Perspectives
May 3, 2016
http://www.meforum.org/5989/israel-palestinian-dilemma
 
 

Israelis have gradually come to accept that the Palestinians are neither interested in real peace nor capable of establishing a viable state.

Ever since the Palestinian terrorist wave began in September 2000, the Israeli body politic increasingly has resigned itself to the probability that there is no partner on the Palestinian side with which to reach a historic compromise with the Jewish national (Zionist) movement. The hopes for peace that were generated by the Oslo process in 1993 have been replaced by the stark realization that violent conflict will not end soon.

Moreover, the hostile messages about Israel purveyed in the Palestinian Authority (PA) educational system and official media leave little doubt about the rabid anti-Semitism prevalent in Palestinian society, which ensures that conflict with the Jews will continue. And thus, the central premise of the Oslo process seems exceedingly improbable. The premise was that partition of the Land of Israel and the establishment of a Palestinian political entity (what is known as the two-state paradigm) would bring peace and stability. Alas, this paradigm has been deeply discredited.

Palestinian demands for control of the Temple Mount and the 'right of return' are insurmountable obstacles.

Aside from and beyond the assessment that the PA has no intention of accepting a Jewish state in any borders, the fact remains that the two sides remain far apart on most of the concrete issues to be resolved. Palestinian demands for control of the Temple Mount and the so-called "right of return," for example, are insurmountable obstacles. Any pragmatic impulse that might otherwise have emerged in Palestinian politics is consistently countered by Hamas, whose growing influence reflects the Islamist tide that is surging across the wider region.

To make matters worse, the assumption that the Palestinians are capable of establishing a state within the parameters of a two-state paradigm has not been validated. The PA was unable to get rid of multiple militias and lost Gaza to Hamas, mirroring the inability of other Arab societies in the region to sustain statist structures.

Protracted ethno-religious conflicts end only when at least one of the sides becomes war-weary.

Finally, protracted ethno-religious conflicts end only when at least one of the sides becomes war-weary, and runs out of energy for sustaining the conflict. That is not true of either Israeli or Palestinian society.

As a result of these trends, Israel essentially, if not formally, has given up on conflict resolution in the short run, and instead effectively has adopted a strategy of patient conflict management. But such a strategy brings policy dilemmas of its own.

The first dilemma is whether or not to admit that Israel no longer believes that negotiations can lead to a durable agreement in the near term.

Truth has its virtues, but much of the world does not want to hear this particular truth and is still committed to an unworkable formula. There is, in any case, something to be said for acceding to the wishes of the international community by continuing to participate in negotiations. Doing so signals that Israel is ready to make concessions, which maintains the domestic social cohesion necessary for protracted conflict (management) while projecting a positive image abroad.

Participating in fruitless talks affirms Israel's readiness to compromise and maintains domestic cohesion, but discourages fresh thinking.

On the other hand, negotiations toward the doubtful "two-state solution" keep a fictitious formula alive and prevent fresh thinking about alternative solutions from emerging. Moreover, the "peace process" requires moderation, which entails swallowing Palestinian provocations and restraining punitive action.

A second dilemma is related to the "carrot and stick" approach toward the Palestinians. In the absence of meaningful negotiations, Israel, particularly Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, has advocated the promotion of "economic peace" as a part of conflict management, on the assumption that Israel has nothing to gain from hungry neighbors. This is why Israel does not oppose international financial support for the PA, despite the corruption and inefficiency of the latter. Jerusalem also provides water and electricity to the PA, and to Hamas-ruled Gaza, so that Israel's Palestinian neighbors do not dive into total desperation.
 
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has long argued that only "rapid economic growth" can provide "a stake for peace for the ordinary Palestinians."
But the carrot mitigates the impact of the stick. The Palestinians, it must be recalled, wage war on Israel. Exacting pain from opposing societies is what war is all about, and pain can have a moderating effect on collective behavior. Egypt, for example, decided to change course with regard to Israel because it grew reluctant to pay the costs of maintaining the conflict.

Since the Palestinians have chosen to pursue their goals by causing Israel continued pain – rather than by accepting generous peace deals offered by Ehud Barak (2000) and Ehud Olmert (2007) – Israel has every right to punish them, in the hope that a bit of pain might influence their future choices in a productive direction. But by adopting an "economic peace" approach, Israel creates disincentives to Palestinian moderation, and signals its desperation at the prospect of changing Palestinian behavior.

The Palestinian Authority survives largely because of Israel's security measures and economic backing.

A third dilemma implicit in the conflict management approach is what to do about the hostile PA, which survives largely because of Israel's security measures and economic backing. The collapse of the PA is one possible outcome of a succession struggle after Mahmoud Abbas leaves the political arena.

Whether or not the collapse of the PA is desirable is debatable. On the one hand, the PA propagates vicious hatred toward Israel in its educational system, conducts an ongoing campaign of international delegitimization against Israel, and denies Jewish links to the Land of Israel and to Jerusalem in particular. It glorifies terrorists and allows them to be role models in its schools. It deliberately reinforces the hostility that fuels the conflict, preventing the emergence of a more pragmatic Palestinian leadership.

On the other hand, the PA conveniently relieves Israel of the burden of responsibility for more than one million Palestinians living in the West Bank. PA security forces help combat Hamas influence in the West Bank (although far less than the PA is given credit for). The functioning of the PA, however imperfect, also keeps the Palestinian issue off the top of the international agenda – something that is very much in Israel's interests. A descent into chaos resulting from the total collapse of the PA would invite international intervention.

An additional question for Israel to consider relates to the appropriate level of diplomatic activism on the Palestinian issue. Many advocate Israeli diplomatic initiatives in order to prevent unfavorable plans from being placed on the agenda by global actors. The nature of such initiatives is usually unclear, but activism is part of the Israeli Zionist ethos and "taking initiative" appeals to the impatient Israeli temperament.

Israel's leaders are correct in opting for a conflict management approach to relations with the Palestinians.

On the other hand, a patient wait-and-see approach allows others to make mistakes and gives Israel the latitude to wait on a more favorable environment. In fact, this was the approach favored by David Ben-Gurion. He believed in buying time to build a stronger state and in hanging on until opponents yield their radical goals.

Each of these dilemmas leads to a policy gamble. The short-term existential security imperatives of a small state further complicate Israel's choices. Even if Israel's leaders are correct in opting for a conflict management approach for the moment, they are in an unenviable position.

Efraim Inbar, a professor of political studies at Bar-Ilan University, is the director of the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies and a Shillman-Ginsburg fellow at the Middle East Forum.
Logged
ccp
Power User
***
Posts: 5612


« Reply #2203 on: May 05, 2016, 11:13:26 PM »

And as long as most wealthy Jews give to their beloved Democrat Party we will continue from now on to be taken for granted.  Obama proved that.  Get the dough then screw us over.  As a Jew I simply cannot separate myself from Israel.  Apparently many other Jews don't feel the same way.

"Among secular Jews - the core of the Democratic Party's Jewish voting bloc - caring about Israel ranked fifth as "an essential Jewish trait" (43 percent) - right before "having a good sense of humour" (42 percent)."

"As the US support for Israel was waning, so too was support for Israel among American Jews."

At first I thought this from AlJazeera so what.  The author seems more from the right though then the left.  OTOH some on the right are not "friends" of Israel.  Then again are not many Jewish Democrats.  They love Obama don't they?

 http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/05/jewish-votes-matter-election-160503085918136.html
Logged
Crafty_Dog
Administrator
Power User
*****
Posts: 37022


« Reply #2204 on: May 11, 2016, 12:20:46 PM »

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/OUR-WORLD-Time-for-a-new-Israeli-diplomatic-initiative-453560
Logged
Crafty_Dog
Administrator
Power User
*****
Posts: 37022


« Reply #2205 on: May 13, 2016, 08:04:32 AM »

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Column-One-The-fruits-of-subversion-453875


Logged
ccp
Power User
***
Posts: 5612


« Reply #2206 on: May 17, 2016, 02:00:22 PM »

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/The-disintegration-of-Israeli-society-454222
Logged
Crafty_Dog
Administrator
Power User
*****
Posts: 37022


« Reply #2207 on: May 29, 2016, 01:06:48 PM »

Long article,seems significant:

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/203309/bogie-yaalon-next-ariel-sharon?utm_source=tabletmagazinelist&utm_campaign=933450958d-Sunday_May_29_20165_27_2016&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c308bf8edb-933450958d-207194629
Logged
ccp
Power User
***
Posts: 5612


« Reply #2208 on: May 31, 2016, 06:54:56 PM »

Even liberal Jews side with arabs in Palestine more then Israel.   As said they are no longer Jews .  They are crats:

http://observer.com/2016/05/theres-no-room-left-for-a-pro-israel-democrat/
Logged
Crafty_Dog
Administrator
Power User
*****
Posts: 37022


« Reply #2209 on: June 01, 2016, 01:58:45 PM »

https://www.facebook.com/StandWithUs/videos/10153733666297689/
Logged
G M
Power User
***
Posts: 13701


« Reply #2210 on: June 01, 2016, 02:02:27 PM »


Partners in peace!
Logged
Crafty_Dog
Administrator
Power User
*****
Posts: 37022


« Reply #2211 on: June 05, 2016, 10:30:04 PM »

http://www.themideastbeast.com/israel-place-gorillas-near-gaza-hopes-intl-community-will-care-rocket-attacks/
Logged
ccp
Power User
***
Posts: 5612


« Reply #2212 on: June 14, 2016, 01:32:37 PM »

Well this seems good:

election year or not:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2016/06/14/40-billion-aid-to-Israel-is-largest-ever-to-any-country-says-Susan-Rice/5461465914964/
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 11:45:27 PM by Crafty_Dog » Logged
ccp
Power User
***
Posts: 5612


« Reply #2213 on: June 16, 2016, 05:06:31 PM »

I have to admit what in the world does he need a $1600 haircut for?  I could take him to my barber and get it done for $15 bucks.  I mean give me a break.  I thought Clinton's $400 job was a lot.
What kind of con artist can get away with charging Washington DC lawyer/Plastic surgeon rates for a hair cut?:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/israeli-leader-spent-1-600-hairdresser-york-trip-152323349.html
Logged
Crafty_Dog
Administrator
Power User
*****
Posts: 37022


« Reply #2214 on: June 17, 2016, 09:52:15 AM »

Backstage at Turkey's Shotgun Wedding with Israel
by Burak Bekdil
The Gatestone Institute
June 14, 2016
http://www.meforum.org/6072/turkey-israel-shotgun-wedding
 
 
Share:   

  Be the first of your friends to like this.
 
The Grand Synagogue of Edirne in northwest Turkey hosted its first wedding ceremony in 41 years on May 29.

There is every indication that Turkey and Israel are not far away from normalizing their troubled diplomatic relations.

According to Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu, for instance, the former allies are "one or two meetings" away from normalization.
If, however, Ankara and Jerusalem finally shake hands after six years of cold war, it will be because Turkey feels increasingly isolated internationally, not because it feels any genuine friendship for the Jewish nation.

In all probability, the "peace" between Turkey and Israel will look like the definition of peace in Ambrose Bierce's The Devil's Dictionary: "In international affairs, a period of cheating between two periods of fighting" -- despite the backdrop for peace looking incredibly (but mischievously) convenient.
If Ankara and Jerusalem finally shake hands, it will be because Turkey feels isolated internationally.

On May 29, a Jewish wedding ceremony was held in a historical synagogue in the northwestern province of Edirne for the first time in 41 years. A few months before that, in December, the Jewish year 5776 went down in history possibly as the first time in which a public Hanukkah candle-lighting ceremony was held in Muslim Turkey in a state-sponsored event. All that is nice -- but can be misleading.

There are two major problems that will probably block a genuine normalization. One is Hamas, and the other is the seemingly irreversible anti-Semitism which most Turks devour.

In a powerful article from this month, Jonathan Schanzer forcefully reminded the world that although Saleh Arouri, a senior Hamas military leader, was expelled from his safe base in Istanbul, "... many other senior Hamas officials remain there. And their ejection from Turkey appears to be at the heart of Israel's demands as rapprochement talks near completion."

Schanzer says that there are ten Hamas figures currently believed to be enjoying refuge in Turkey, and he names half a dozen or so Hamas militants there, including Mahmoud Attoun, who was found guilty of the kidnapping and murder of a 29-year-old Israeli. Also enjoying safe haven in Turkey are three members of the Izzedine al-Qassam brigades. Schanzer adds that "there are a handful more that can be easily identified in the Arabic and Turkish press, and nearly all of them maintain profiles on Facebook and Twitter, where they regularly post updates on their lives in Turkey."
 
Turkish President (then Prime Minister) Recep Tayyip Erdogan (right) meeting with Hamas leaders Khaled Mashaal (center) and Ismail Haniyeh in June 2013.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has claimed more than once that Hamas is not a terrorist group but a legitimate political party. He has held innumerable meetings with senior Hamas officials including Khaled Mashaal, head of its political bureau. In addition, Erdogan came up with the idea that Zionism should be declared a "crime against humanity."

Anti-Semitism, as mentioned, is the other problem. Erdogan deliberately spread anti-Semitic sentiments to an already xenophobic society until he decided to go (relatively) silent when he recently realized that Turkey's cold war with Israel was not sustainable. This does not mean that his or Turkish society's views regarding Jews have changed.

Earlier this year, for instance, one of Erdogan's chief advisors appeared in pro-government media to attack political rivals as "raising soldiers for the Jews." This sentiment is not confined to government big guns.

The first Jewish wedding at Edirne synagogue after 41 years was, no doubt, a merry event, both for the Turkish Jewish couple and politically, but it failed to mask the ugly side of the coin. Unlike a normal Turkish wedding (or, say, a Jewish wedding in the U.S.), unusually tight security measures were taken in the neighborhood around the synagogue, including the closure of roads leading to the synagogue and security searches of the wedding guests. The guests had to go through a metal detector at the door of the synagogue. Road closures and a metal detector for a wedding?!

There was more. Turks happily expressed their feelings in social media to "celebrate" the Jewish wedding. "One of my biggest dreams is to kill a Jew," wrote one Twitter user. "[Hitler] did not do it in vain," wrote another. The Hitler series went on with "He was a great man," "Where are you Hitler?" and "We are all Hitler."

This is the backstage scene in the country where a Jewish couple happily married at a synagogue for the first time in 41 years -- the same country supposedly to "normalize" its ties with Israel.

Burak Bekdil is an Ankara-based columnist for the Turkish newspaper Hürriyet Daily News and a fellow at the Middle East Forum.
Logged
Crafty_Dog
Administrator
Power User
*****
Posts: 37022


« Reply #2215 on: June 18, 2016, 01:37:13 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_Fw3HD3N_I

I have not gone through the cited sources at the end of this clip yet, but it they bear it out, this is quite interesting.
Logged
Crafty_Dog
Administrator
Power User
*****
Posts: 37022


« Reply #2216 on: June 20, 2016, 04:49:38 PM »


The Orlando jihad mass murderer was anything but a “lone wolf.”

June 20, 2016
Robert Spencer

Noor Salman, the wife of Omar Mateen, the Orlando gay nightclub jihad mass murderer, has gone missing, and with good reason: she explodes the idea that Mateen was a “lone wolf” terrorist. She should be arrested – but now she is gone.

Salman witnessed him selling his house to his brother-in-law for $10 – a clear indication that the couple knew jihad was in the offing. She has admitted to law enforcement authorities that she and her husband had recently been “scouting Downtown Disney and Pulse [the nightclub where the jihad massacre took place] for attacks.” Mateen texted her during his massacre, asking if she had seen the news; she responded that she loved him.

As authorities deliberated over whether or not to arrest her, Salman herself showed more dispatch. Last Wednesday, the killer’s father, Seddique Mir Mateen, told reporters that Salman was “no longer here.”

No one seems to have asked Seddique Mateen himself where she has gone, but he probably knows. There are, after all, numerous indications that he may not be as upset about his son’s jihad massacre as he has claimed: he is an open supporter of the Taliban, and the morning after the murders, he posted online a video in which he claims that he was “not aware what motivated” Omar to “go into a gay club and kill 50 people,” but then he adds: “God will punish those involved in homosexuality,” as it is “not an issue that humans should deal with.”

Despite Seddique Mateen’s professed puzzlement over his son’s actions and denial that Omar had been “radicalized,” is it really any wonder that a man who grew up in a household in which the Taliban were held up as positive role models would turn out to be a jihad terrorist? Omar Mateen is known to have cheered at school when al-Qaeda flew planes into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon on September 11, 2001; is it likely that his father, a supporter of al-Qaeda’s allies and collaborators the Taliban, rebuked him for doing so?

While not revealing where Noor Salman is, the family issued a statement saying: “Noor is completely innocent and [was] unaware of the attacks.” It added the claim that she is unable to comprehend “cause and effect.” The mainstream media, always anxious to exonerate Islam from responsibility for the crimes done in its name and in accord with its teachings, even dragged out Salman’s middle school teacher to say: “Noor had difficulty with retention, she had difficulty with conceptualizing, understanding, all challenges to her. She tried hard. She was very sweet.”

All that may be so, but Noor Salman is an adult now, and her difficulty in middle school is irrelevant to whether or not she aided her husband in preparing for his jihad massacre. She should have been arrested, and the whole family needs to be investigated. Former Department of Homeland Security official Philip Haney responded trenchantly to common media claims that Mateen was “self-radicalized”: “As though nobody knew anything – that’s completely preposterous. If you know anything about the Islamic worldview, family and community is ultimately central to everything they do. The concept of operating alone is anathema to the Islamic worldview. They just don’t do it. So, self-radicalization – what does that even mean any more? Nobody is self-anything in this world we live in.”

Yet the feds let Noor Salman slip through their fingers – and whatever Muslim community in which she is hiding now isn’t calling the police to alert them of her whereabouts. Was the FBI too complacent in its politically correct dogma that Muslims in America all hold to a benign, peaceful form of the faith, and that any Muslim in the U.S. who becomes a jihad murderer must have been “radicalized on the Internet,” to be too concerned about the possibility that Omar Mateen’s family was complicit in his attack? How long will it be before Seddique Mateen and the rest of the family absconds, as did Noor Salman?

The Orlando jihad massacre was eminently preventable: the FBI questioned Omar Mateen but deemed him unworthy of close scrutiny, even after a gun shop owner reported him; agents didn’t even bother to visit the shop. This was after Mateen bragged to coworkers about jihad ties, but the FBI called off investigation, dismissing the coworkers as “Islamophobic,” and after Mateen threatened to kill a sheriff and his family, and the FBI dismissed the threat. Now they have let Noor Salman slip through their fingers. Would it have been “Islamophobic” to arrest her? And how many more Americans have to die before the politically correct fantasies that hamstring law enforcement today are discarded?
Logged
Crafty_Dog
Administrator
Power User
*****
Posts: 37022


« Reply #2217 on: June 21, 2016, 12:26:11 PM »

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Explaining-the-Israeli-Left-457308
Logged
G M
Power User
***
Posts: 13701


« Reply #2218 on: June 21, 2016, 02:05:45 PM »


Funny how the left in various nations is actively trying to commit national suicide by various means.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 43 44 [45] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!