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Author Topic: Tax Policy  (Read 152488 times)
DougMacG
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« Reply #750 on: November 06, 2017, 12:12:53 PM »

Doug,
They may as well as just cut the corporate rate to 20 % and ditch the rest of it if you ask me.
The rest is switching things all around with in the end minimal tax cuts for some and tax increases for others.

Cut the corporate tax rate by more than a third and do nothing for the middle class?  
ccp, I will keep you as my doctor but fire you as my political strategist!   )



« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 01:39:27 PM by DougMacG » Logged
ccp
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Posts: 7625


« Reply #751 on: November 06, 2017, 06:21:13 PM »

" Cut the corporate tax rate by more than a third and do nothing for the middle class? 
ccp, I will keep you as my doctor but fire you as my political strategist!   )  "

Quite the contrary Doug,

I don't know how I could do much worse then the Republicans as a political strategist.

I think it worse to promise tax cuts for everyone then  change it so there are no or minimal tax cuts in the final product

Not Trump's fault in my opinion

but then who am I?

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DougMacG
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Posts: 9218


« Reply #752 on: November 07, 2017, 10:44:56 AM »

"but then who am I?" (ccp)

Besides that I still owe you on a prediction bet, you correctly called from the beginning the political issue, illegal immigration, that the whole last election turned on.  I, on the other hand, am a contrary indicator.  The more sure I am about anything political, the more likely we are to turn in an opposite direction.
-----------
On taxes, I am waiting and waiting for some ammunition on which to sell this proposal.   For example that 87% of middle earners will pay in less under the plan or something like that.  Not finding it.

Sen Lankford (R-OK) will vote against it if "it raises the debt too much".  Static or dynamic, Senator?  Concerned with what went wrong in Kansas.  This is not Kansas. 

From his website:  "It is time to simplify and flatten the code."  http://jameslankford.com/taxes
   - Good.  Do it. 
"Our nation should promote economic growth so more people can move out of poverty and into work."
 - Good Senator, do it.
"we should eliminate the wasteful spending in government."
  - Find 50 more Senators and do it!

What are they waiting for, and why do they think it is Donald Trump with no experience and little aptitude in this area should lead?  In the last campaign we had nearly every Senator thinking they should be President.  How about they act like a leader first.

Marco Rubio writes in the NYT that the child tax credit increase isn't enough.  Great, but exactly the kind of provision Scott Grannis points out that does nothing with incentives to grow the economy.  If Rubio and Lee get what they want, Lankford will be out because it all comes with a price of opening the static deficit and making the economy static.

The WSJ editorialists don't like (neither do I) the bubble tax rate of 45.6% that applies to tax-filing couples who make between $1.2 million and $1.6 million.  And the bill keeps the 3.8% ObamaCare surcharge making a top marginal rate of 49.4%, federal alone, plus 9-10% state and local and 60% goes to taxes at the top.  "They can afford it" is right out of the Bernie playbook.  Yet you drop that and lose people like Lankford, Collins, Murkowski.

Let's see. We can't cut spending.  We can't count the dynamic effect of growth in a growth-based policy.  We can't add a fictitious 1.5T to the debt over 10 years when they just added 10T in 10 years.  We can't call it a tax cut when it raises some and lowers others.  We can't simplify when everyone screams when they lose their deduction even if they end up paying less.  If you're Jeff Flake or Bob Corker, you can't support anything that Trump might get credit for.  We can't seem to get a single damn Democratic vote even if Trump won their state by 40 points.  We can't get blue state Republicans because of the state and local fix.  We can't lower individual rates or eliminate the inflation tax on capital gains.  But we all know the status quo is the worst possible tax code holding back what should be the greatest country on earth causing our greatest companies to flee and preventing our future greatest companies from getting started.

We've had a full year to build a consensus or at least get the very best plan on the table that can pass and move us in the right direction.  Were they busy accomplishing something else, healthcare, entitlement reform, a wall??

Screw this up now and we will have (President) Bernie Sanders' tax plan and the economic 'growth' of Venezuela.
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ccp
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« Reply #753 on: November 07, 2017, 12:14:40 PM »

https://www.wsj.com/articles/n-j-voters-worry-about-taxes-as-they-elect-a-new-governor-1510005451

"New Jersey resident Kathy Loughran, 58, said she plans to vote for Ms. Guadagno because she fears her taxes will go up if Mr. Murphy is elected.“The only way he can pay for what he wants to do is to raise our taxes,” said Ms. Loughran, a real-estate appraiser. Michael Jorgensen, a 65-year-old woodworker from Essex County, agreed that taxes “just eat us alive,” but said he believes Mr. Murphy would seek to raise the tax burden on the wealthy to pay for education initiatives"

Typical NJ democrat ,  this guy Jorgensen, taxes "just eat us alive"  but then his answer which is always the Democrat way :   the rich should pay more........

Highest property taxes in the nation with schools and hospitals filled with illegals. 

http://www.newsmax.com/FastFeatures/illegal-immigration-New-Jersey/2015/09/24/id/693109/

The WSJ can publish this article but in the end we will get another crat who will protect the unions who have signed on to him .   

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ccp
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Posts: 7625


« Reply #754 on: November 07, 2017, 06:07:59 PM »

woopti do!  Oh I am all in folks ...................... undecided  since what 90 % of citizens are employees few are gong to relate to this and say thank Trump Thanks Republicans

"  Trump is currently using much of his political capital to ram a controversial tax reform bill through Congress by year’s end. But the Journal/NBC poll finds that almost half of adults in those key counties have no opinion of the current bill — suggesting a hard-fought tax reform may do little to create an upswing in Trump’s political fortunes in 2017 "

suggesting the people in the counties that Trump won over don't believe a tax bull for business is going to do jack for them:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/07/polls-donald-trump-losing-support-among-his-base-but-few-gains-for-democrats/

« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 06:29:41 PM by ccp » Logged
DougMacG
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Posts: 9218


« Reply #755 on: November 09, 2017, 11:55:17 AM »

Rules like these are why the rates cannot be cut across the board:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/us/politics/facing-math-trouble-house-panel-races-to-adjust-tax-bill.html

Cannot have more than 1.5T of static loss over 10 years no matter how great the expected dynamic gain .

Where is the constitution does it give one congress the power to bind a future congress?  I thought limits to the powers of Congress were set out IN the constitution.
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DougMacG
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« Reply #756 on: November 10, 2017, 12:09:09 PM »

As documented often in this thread, Greg Mankiw, Chair of the Harvard Economics Dept quantifies it.

"if the tax rate is one third, then every dollar of tax cut to capital (on a static basis) raises wages by $1.50"

http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2017/10/an-exercise-for-my-readers.html?m=1
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DougMacG
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« Reply #757 on: November 10, 2017, 12:22:18 PM »

To overcome the discrepancy between pass through and individual rates and to stimulate the economy far more, "cut personal income tax [rates] at the same time."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/business/how-to-improve-the-trump-tax-plan.html

He closes with:  "Mr. Trump is right that the current system is in desperate need of repair and that sensible reform could simplify our lives, promote economic growth and benefit all Americans. But I fear that what he is offering, while attractive in some ways, is not bold enough to get the job done."
-------

Given the budget rules, Mankiw offers two ideas ("nonstarters") to make up the lost static revenue as required by Senate rules, a carbon tax and a consumption tax. 

Here are a couple of rocket science level ideas to consider in place of his nonstarters: 
CUT SPENDING, and
MAKE BUDGET CALCULATIONS DYNAMIC
rather than deny the  role incentives play in economics.
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ccp
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« Reply #758 on: November 13, 2017, 10:46:15 AM »

https://www.yahoo.com/news/house-gop-tax-plan-soaks-234317128.html

I don't understand this.  Is this article saying that students can deduct these waivers from taxes?

Or the school gives them "free or discounted tuition" then the school uses that as a  deduction?

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DougMacG
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« Reply #759 on: November 13, 2017, 01:30:14 PM »

https://www.yahoo.com/news/house-gop-tax-plan-soaks-234317128.html
I don't understand this.  Is this article saying that students can deduct these waivers from taxes?
Or the school gives them "free or discounted tuition" then the school uses that as a  deduction?

Businesses create and people take perks as a way of getting around the nasty tax code with other compensation.  Health care for example and in this case, tuition.

Then when we simplify, someone screams to support every item in a 75,000 page tax code. 

The article presents and avoids a number of points.  Should people be able to take benefits under the table that other people in other industries cannot?

When they say, lose their deduction, they in all cases had their standard deduction doubled and something like 85% of people in these tax brackets do not itemize, so in most cases they did not lose a deduction.

Mostly it begs the need for higher education reform.  My daughter's college was roughly a quarter million.  They can throw that in free for a janitor and it costs them nothing?  Amazing.  And how often is this happening?   Believe it or not, I too would like perks outside of the tax system.  Better for everyone would be to get the tax penalty down and compliance up so everything is within the tax system.

From the article:  "the income tax on the tuition waiver would tax the “full sticker price of tuition” rather than the discounted rate universities provide for most students."

A college similar to my daughter's has a local billboard saying 97% of the students receive some kind of assistance.  What a racket they run, charging everybody a different amount for the same product.  Instead of illegal or unconstitutional, our government encourages it, mandates it? 

Third party pay IS what screwed up higher ed just like healthcare.  Looks like they got caught.

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ccp
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« Reply #760 on: November 13, 2017, 05:54:23 PM »

"Mostly it begs the need for higher education reform"

The education lobby which is a giant force to be reckoned with at all levels is asking for reform too!

But alas the reform is for more wealth confiscation to pay for more and more "free" education



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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #761 on: November 14, 2017, 09:49:11 AM »

The Great Progressive Tax Escape
IRS data show an accelerating flight from high-tax states.
Opinion Journal: Blue-State Republican Blues
Opinion Journal Video: Former CBO Director Doug Holtz-Eakin on the politics of tax reform in states like New York and California. Photo Credit: Getty Images.
By The Editorial Board
Nov. 13, 2017 6:11 p.m. ET
512 COMMENTS

Democrats contend that marginal tax rates don’t matter to investment and growth, and even some conservative intellectuals are conceding the point. But the evidence from wealth fleeing high-tax states shows how sensitive the affluent are to rate increases.

The liberal tax model is to fleece the rich to finance spending on entitlements and government programs that invariably grow faster than the economy and revenues. IRS data on tax migration show this model is now breaking down in progressive states as the affluent run for cover and the middle class is left paying the bills.

Between 2012 and 2015 (the most recent data), a net $8.5 billion in adjusted gross income left New Jersey while $6.2 billion poured out of Connecticut—4% of the latter state’s total income. Illinois lost $13.6 billion. During that period, Florida with no income tax gained $39.3 billion in AGI. (See the nearby table.)

–– ADVERTISEMENT ––
The Great Progressive Tax Escape

Not surprisingly, income flows down the tax gradient. In 2015 New York (where the combined state and local top rate is 12.7%) lost a net $850 million in AGI to New Jersey (8.97%) and Connecticut (6.99%). At the same time, the Garden State gave up $335 million to Pennsylvania (3.07%), and $60 million left Connecticut for the state formerly known as Taxachusetts (5.1%). Taxpayers from New York, New Jersey and Connecticut escaped to Florida with $3.2 billion in income. Florida Gov. Rick Scott ought to pay these states a commission.

The affluent account for a disproportionate share of the income migration. For instance, individuals reporting more than $200,000 in AGI in 2015 made up 57% of the income outflow from Connecticut (compared to 48% of total state AGI) and 57% of the inflow to Florida.

Snowbird flight isn’t new, but migration has accelerated as taxes have increased. Income outflow from Connecticut averaged $500 million between 2003 and 2007. Then in 2009 GOP Gov. Jodi Rell raised the top tax rate to 6.5% from 5%, which her Democratic successor Dannel Malloy lifted a few years later to 6.7% and again two years ago to 6.99%. AGI outflow between 2012 and 2015 averaged $1.6 billion.

In 2004 Democrats raised New Jersey’s top rate on individuals earning more than $500,000 to 8.97% from 6.37%. Between 2012 and 2015, annual income outflow from New Jersey averaged $2.1 billion—twice as much as between 2000 and 2003 after adjusting for inflation.

Republican Gov. Chris Christie blocked his Democratic legislature’s attempts to reimpose a millionaire’s tax that lapsed in 2009. But Democratic Governor-elect won the election this month by promising to soak the rich even more, and his legislature will oblige.

The prospect of future tax hikes appears to have propelled an exodus of high earners from Illinois, which has a relatively low and flat 4.99% income tax. Democrats raised the rate from 3% in 2010, but the tax hike lapsed in 2015 after Bruce Rauner became Governor. House Speaker Michael Madigan finally this summer secured GOP legislative support to override the Governor’s veto and reinstate the higher rate.

But the tax increase won’t raise enough money to finance the state’s $250 billion unfunded pension liability, and the long-time goal of unions has been to enact a graduated income tax. The affluent know they’ll get soaked eventually and are seeking shelter. Top earners made up 47% of Illinois’s income flight in 2015 compared to 33% four years earlier. Income taxes from the 306 Cook County denizens who decamped to Palm Beach in 2015 with $258 million of income could have paid 200 teacher salaries. Alas.

This millionaires’ diaspora has harmed income and economic growth. Real GDP between 2011 and 2016 grew annually at a paltry 0.2% in Connecticut, 1% in Illinois and 1.2% in New Jersey, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. These states were the slowest growing in their respective geographic regions, though other high tax states in the Northeast didn’t fare much better.

As a result, revenues have repeatedly fallen short of projections in New Jersey, Illinois and Connecticut while budget deficits have ballooned. Democratic lawmakers have cut public services and funds to local governments, which have responded by raising property taxes.

The Tax Foundation says New Jersey, Connecticut, Vermont, New York and Illinois have the highest property taxes in the country. Over the last two years, the average Chicago homeowner’s property taxes have risen by roughly $1,000. Higher property taxes hit middle-class earners especially hard and are another incentive to leave a state.
***

As these state laboratories of Democratic governance show, dunning the rich ultimately hurts people of all incomes by repressing the growth needed to create jobs, boost wages and raise government revenues that fund public services. If the Republican House and Senate tax-reform bills follow through with eliminating all or part of the state and local tax deduction, progressive states will have an even harder time hiding the damage. They should be the next candidates for reform.
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ccp
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Posts: 7625


« Reply #762 on: November 14, 2017, 10:21:26 AM »

"   The Great Progressive Tax Escape  "
I doubt the liberal leaving blue states are turning conservative.  They are bringing their lib dogma with them to red states turning them blue .

" Republican Gov. Chris Christie blocked his Democratic legislature’s attempts to reimpose a millionaire’s tax that lapsed in 2009. But Democratic Governor-elect won the election this month by promising to soak the rich even more, and his legislature will oblige.  "

like i pointed out before Christie's achievement was to hold the line on taxes.  Bow that he is gone working class (except government employees) will be strangled for cash to pay pensions of those that were supposed to work for them.   And since many in NJ pay nothing anyway that share of the electorate will cheer or not care.

Levin on tax shell game:
agreed great for some business on our (my ) backs :

https://soundcloud.com/conservativereview/levin-gop-dunderheads-have-screwed-up-tax-reform
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ccp
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« Reply #763 on: November 19, 2017, 03:56:02 PM »

The thinking form the left  moved over from another thread:



how the LEFT thinks they  are entitled to confiscate money and hand out to others of their choosing rather then lifting all boats:

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/salt-local-tax-deduction-blue-states-cities/2017/11/19/id/827019/

Margaret Thatcher is smiling in heaven about now:

watching the Left panic fearing they will run out of OTHER people's money.
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