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Author Topic: Kali Tudo Working Examples  (Read 9221 times)
Guard Dog
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« on: August 12, 2008, 10:39:09 AM »

Crafty et al,
 
  This weekend our school had a rather successful run in the cage and ring and I'd like to share one of the fights with everyone!  This fighter has trained both left and right lead equal amounts of time and as such, we've explored KT in great detail with an emphasis on Triggonomics "outside footwork."  The clips are rather long but the game plan of staying to the outside allowed us to dominate.  This was a Muay Thai fight with authentic Muay Thai rules allowing the competitors to strike with any of the eight limbs to anywhere on the body.  This means that elbows, knees and kicks to the face were 100% legal.  On top of all of this, it's one of my female fighters!  Take a look!:

(Feel free to fast forward to the rounds)
Part I: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzCChIxZLPQ


Part II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65sfTwtFJHA


Yet another example of “Train how you want to fight and you will fight how you train!”

Thank you Crafty for the material.

Woof!

Gruhn
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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
Guro / DBMAA Business Director
Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
"Smuggling Concepts Across the Frontiers of Style”
ryan@dogbrothers.com | www.dogbrothers.com
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2008, 03:59:39 PM »

Thank you for that and you are welcome.

Is your girl a lefty or a right?
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Guard Dog
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2008, 11:44:42 PM »

Both Sir.
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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
Guro / DBMAA Business Director
Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
"Smuggling Concepts Across the Frontiers of Style”
ryan@dogbrothers.com | www.dogbrothers.com
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2008, 06:42:25 AM »

Good answer smiley
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Jonobos
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« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2008, 12:55:49 PM »

I had a chance to watch one of dog Ryans Thai boxing students spar last night. I was really impressed with his footwork. He created all sorts of openings using triangles, and was always on the move. The other guy just sort of stood there swinging. I even saw the false lead on multiple occasions. I have never really seen the triangular matrix realized in an empty hand context like that. Very very nice!

I joked at the end that he was not a Thai boxer at all, and that he had been converted to a kali tudo guy without knowing it Tongue
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2008, 01:23:31 PM »

Woof Jonobos:

Well, I trust Dog Ryan will rectify that  grin 

Of course, hearing of these things puts a wag in my tail.  grin cool

Guro Crafty
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Guard Dog
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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2008, 02:53:28 PM »

Last night was a great night for sparring.  We had some out of town guys come in and spar who had a lot of experience, almost all of the fighters that sparred my guys were pro, a few had fought in the UFC, Elite XC and a few other big name shows.  In any event, the guy that my Thaiboxer went against was 18-2 as a pro I believe.  My Thaiboxer has learned the KT matrix inside and out and does an excellent job of playing it while sparring.  I've always been extremely against the flat footed "Tim Silvia" approach to stand up and seeing my guys successful brings a smile to my face.  Ajarn Chai gave me the cruel idea to tape push pins "tacks" to the heels of the feet to make people stay on their toes.  I have yet to try it but the concept states how important it is to Chai so I myself make sure my students stay "tall" on the balls of the feet.  I think this lends very well to the footwork matrix that Crafty has shared with us. "What stands still, grows roots, gets chopped down."

I was first introduced to this matrix in late '03 / early '04 by Crafty and immediately saw the relevance in it.  I went back to the gym to spar all the guys and kept it quiet for some time while I had immense success using it.  It amazed me of how "top secret" this material actually was.  Even many top fighters NOW are not using this structure.  Those who are have great success.  After a while I decided to start sharing the KT matrix with my guys and they have more than ran with the material.  This was way before the DVD even came out so I had many people raising an eyebrow when I shared it with them.  My one boxer who I used to "one up" now beats me at my own game!  In any event, the Thaiboxer you watched Jon is going to be fighting on the 18th and we plan on using this structure.  I'll make sure to post the video.

Woof!

Gruhn
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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
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Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
"Smuggling Concepts Across the Frontiers of Style”
ryan@dogbrothers.com | www.dogbrothers.com
Guard Dog
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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2008, 02:58:01 PM »

Here is one of my boxers using the matrix in his last fight from August:

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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
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Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
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ryan@dogbrothers.com | www.dogbrothers.com
maija
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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2008, 03:18:34 PM »

..."Ajarn Chai gave me the cruel idea to tape push pins "tacks" to the heels of the feet to make people stay on their toes.  I have yet to try it but the concept states how important it is to Chai so I myself make sure my students stay "tall" on the balls of the feet. "

LOL! Nice idea!!
Staying on the balls of the feet is key. Couldn't agree with you more.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2009, 07:36:31 AM »

Woof All:

a) I'm told, but have not yet seen, that there was a Running Dog guard pass in a recent episode.

b) I don't know its provenance for Shogun Rua, but his dramatic KO of Chuck Liddell sure looked like a Zirconia to me

c) Again, I don't know its provenance but I think it was by Josh Neer in this past Saturday's UFC that we saw Figure 8 striking against the guard as I teach in "the Running Dog Game".

TAC,
Guro Crafty
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2009, 07:43:40 AM »

I was rewatching Rua vs. Machida yesterday and saw Rua use the same Zirconia type punch he used to knock out Chuck Liddell.  Here too it was more of a hook than a jab and here too he did not cut the corner to complete the diamond, but I do submit is as an example of the underlying principle.
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Guard Dog
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« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2009, 09:07:40 PM »

Kali-Silat!?

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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
Guro / DBMAA Business Director
Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
"Smuggling Concepts Across the Frontiers of Style”
ryan@dogbrothers.com | www.dogbrothers.com
CrazyCossack
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« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2009, 09:24:37 PM »

Kali-Silat!?



lol it must be, he didn't finish the guy with it...

hardy har har

In all seriousness though I wouldn't claim this for Kali-Silat, (or any other one single grappling style for that matter) as it comes up in most of them, bjj for sure, catch-wrestling, probably in pre-modern judo, sambo I'd bet.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2009, 11:40:28 PM »

C-Guard Dog:

What fight?  When?  Who?  What round?
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CrazyCossack
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« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2009, 05:39:02 PM »

I know the question wasn't directed at me but here goes...

Its Dos Anjos (spelling?) pulling off that calf slicer on tyson griffin, seem to remember a post fight interview where griffin said it wasnt that big of a deal to him although he was kinda shaky on it for the 2nd round.

Oh it was also in the first round, and it was the UFC fight night 18 card... one of their free shows on spike.
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Kaju Dog
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« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2009, 06:09:47 PM »


...post fight interview where griffin said it wasnt that big of a deal to him although he was kinda shaky on it for the 2nd round.


I dont know about that...  I can tell you that my ACL hurts just watching the clip.   Knee cranks can go very bad very quick, IMHO If he walked away from that one, he should thank his lucky stars (and his trainer).
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Guard Dog
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« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2009, 07:02:44 PM »

I think he could have finished it if he would have escaped his hips taken his back. 

If I can remember correctly Inosanto FMA teaches this with a "camel clutch" style spine lock from the back.  It could have also turned into the hip lock I know Guro Crafty is very fond of . grin
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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
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Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
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CrazyCossack
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« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2009, 07:19:45 PM »

Well I think the only reason he was able to tough it out, and keep fighting is because he was already in the fight, high adrenaline, etc.... in training I bet he would have tapped to something like that. And although it clearly had an impact on him in the further rounds, it almost looked like he was over it by the end of the fight, and whether he was posturing or not, he did say it wasnt that bad.  I've seen people have their arms broken from bicep crushers before though, and he wanted to finish the grappling match (it was a competition and he hadn't yet seen his floppy arm).

Also the submission is more of a compression submission rather than a twisting one (heel hook) so typically it attacks the calf muscle more than the knee itself (although apparently your entire knee can "explode") I've seen people have their arms broken from bicep crushers before though, and he wanted to finish the grappling match (it was a competition and he hadn't yet seen his floppy arm).

As for him finishing it, its hard to say if he could have finished with that particular submission, he almost comes up on top at the end, but it's probably fairly difficult to come up on top of tyson griffin like that, and had he switched to another submission he may have lost it (tyson griffin can scramble).  I mean in fights there is always what if's. I remember at the time of the fight it being extremely interesting and making the fight that much more exciting though.
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Guard Dog
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« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2010, 10:32:54 PM »

One of our boxers utilizing the False Lead Jab on Saturday:

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=110056459019831
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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
Guro / DBMAA Business Director
Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
"Smuggling Concepts Across the Frontiers of Style”
ryan@dogbrothers.com | www.dogbrothers.com
haumana2000
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« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2010, 11:05:13 AM »

young dominick from our youth program shadowboxing using the false jab aka the zirconia footwork that guro crafty speaks about. though rua uses a hooking type motion ala more of the drive by- i think the best part of the false jab is a direct straightlien approach preceded by a probing jab, then explosion forward out on to the diamond.
maybe im crazy who knows lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvhQiXKWcIQ

let me know what you think-kuya
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2010, 09:15:42 AM »

I love emails like this:
=====================
Marc,
I just wanted to thank you again for the Kali Tudo material. While I don't have many people here in Maine to work it with me, I do utilize it when I spar. And the strategies certainly seem to allow me, at 36, to keep up with the younger guys. And for some reason, I tend to spar from the philly shell, and this is well wedded to the KT material. The Trigg material seems to emerge almost effortlessly from that structure as well as the Zirconia.
The Kali Tudo tapes really are the best striking tapes I've purchased in ages. Punching and kicking, and standing in the pocket is great when you are young and your attributes grant an edge but dependence on attributes probably represents poor long term planning. Strategy, movement, and selective engagement are much wiser approaches.
Thanks again.
M.
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pau
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« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2010, 03:11:56 PM »

Kali-Silat!?



Man a i remember that figth  shocked i realy was especting for the knee to snap
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guau desde mex ^^

woof from mex ^^
nathanwc
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« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2010, 06:21:27 PM »

For those who aren't aware, MMA in CA is now sanctioned by the California Amateur Mixed Martial Arts Association (www.camo-ma.org)

One of my students, Alex Bondarenko, who has also had the privilege of training with Guro C, had his first fight on 8-22 at the Fight Factory in Canoga Park, CA.
He did managed to pull off what he has been training and won the fight in 33 seconds of round one.
He broke the guys nose on the ground and the fight was stopped by Sensei Cecil Peoples.

http://s387.photobucket.com/albums/oo315/gab1ml/?action=view&current=2010-08-21_20-23-50_759.mp4

Unfortunately the video doesn't play smoothly until it has completely loaded. and I apologize for the camera man's language.

Thank you Guro for everything you have given.
-Nathan Carlen
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stilljames
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« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2010, 08:31:22 AM »

Nice work on Alex's part.  If that is his first ring fight in front of a crowd, that makes it three times as nice.  I did not fair anywhere nearly as well in my first ring fight.

I especially liked the fact that he threw more than one or two punches at a time.  I also loved the elbow spike that put the opponent on the ground.

The only two pieces of advice that I would offer, based entirely on my own opinion and so feel free to ignore it, is that I personally would not reach my hand down for a kick that was below my waist unless I was planning on a takedown.  And the other one is that by the end of the barrage that Alex starts at about .05 seconds, it looks like he is starting to let his feet outrun his torso when he is attacking.  That might be an illusion caused by the camera angle.

Other than that, a wonderful first fight.  I like the way he does not just stay and punch in mount but also creeps his right leg up while in middle of punching to pin blue's arm
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2010, 11:14:10 AM »

Also, there is what looks like a Dracula bring the Stake at 00:04.  The range is a little forced so the forward collapse into the elbow isn't there, but as best as I can tell from watching the video it does look like the combo served its purpose.

An excellent cherry performance from Alex!
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Rarick
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« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2010, 07:20:04 AM »

Kali-Silat!?



Man a i remember that figth  shocked i realy was especting for the knee to snap

That is a lot like Cro Cop's ankle when he was knocked out buy Rua(?). It looks real nasty, but there is a surprising amount of flexibility in the legs.  That probably put the leg to sleep for a little bit from some blood starvation, but not much more.
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Dog Howie
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« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2010, 06:58:29 AM »

BTW.... today my trainer ate mat after I opened w a Vampire hiding an uppercut a 1/2 beat after. He said if I liked crazy moves like that we could train it because it "sure knocked me to my ass". As far as I'm concerned NOTHING is "crazy" if it works. And besides that it's friggin cool as anything to knock your trainer on his ass." :~)
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stilljames
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« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2010, 04:22:28 PM »

*laugh*  I've never subscribed to the theory that if it is stupid but it works, it is not stupid.  To me, that violates Occam's Razor.  I prefer:  If it is stupid, but it works... Well, sometimes, stupidity works.

I remember showing students a movie blatantly and admittedly stolen from Shaolin Long Fist.  One of the students asked a question:  Doesn't that punch violate everything you've told us before?  To which I responded:  Yep.  I don't do that because I want to.  I do it because all the normal stuff is not working.


Oh and a follow up to Alex's good showing.  My objection to reaching for kicks is that I've seen too many fingers get broken that way.  That goes double against someone who can actually throw a good Thai style shin kick-which Alex's opponent did NOT (had to edit.  Curse typos)  pull off.  
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 08:07:24 AM by stilljames » Logged
Rarick
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« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2010, 04:09:20 AM »

Wasn't Frasier using a variant of the vampire when he did his comeback years ago?  He brought his whole arm across to block Ali's (?) punches.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2010, 10:58:45 AM »

Good eye.  Indeed if one were to take a picture there are apparent similarities, the concept of the Dracula IMHO is distinct. 

Frazier was doing what is sometimes known as "the Philly (as in Philadelphia) Shell" (there's another earlier name for it that slips my mind at the moment- anyone?).  Ken Norton used it, George Foreman used it.  If I remember correctly GF learned it from the legendary Archie Moore.    Although there are important differences though from the Dracula, the Dracula does have a natural moment of interface with the Philly Shell, which is why I had a student with good google fu send me some old boxing footage of the Philly Shell which I been researching for use in Kali Tudo  cool
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Rarick
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« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2010, 05:46:36 AM »

Did he find any video, to refresh my recall?  I think the difference would have been in level- protecting chest vs chin if I am recalling correctly.
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Howling Dog
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« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2010, 09:19:52 AM »

Woof, Searched out "Philly shell " on youtube. Hope this helps with the conversation.

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Howling Dog
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2010, 12:34:29 PM »

Thank you C-HD.

Obviously as used in boxing the PS has some structural issues (e.g. not lined up for responding to leg kicks, shoots, exposing back, etc) but I have some ideas I am working on  wink

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stilljames
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« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2010, 10:59:45 AM »

The PS as demonstrated in the video is obviously optimized for classical boxing rules.   It does not have to deal with shots much below the navel, kidney punches, rabbit punches, backhands, etc.

I've seen modified versions of it show up in kickboxing, Jeet Kune Do, Hsing Yi Chinese Boxing and a few others.  Another modified version shows up in high school wrestling used by counter-throwers.

The biggest adjustments that I have found to make it more useful in a general self-defense, MMA or other tournaments are mostly in the stance and body angle.  The hand positions change a bit, as well.  The lower hand goes lower and the angles change a bit.

But the biggest adjustments are sinking further into the legs and then adjusting the body's angle to open up the foot and knee attack lines.  All those adjustments depend on the 5 Ws of the scenario.

From my own experience in practice (I admit that I've never used a PS or some version in a real fight) is that it gives you sneaky backfist, hammerfirst that rises up at an unusual angle and also allows for a forearm to the groin.  As for dealing with shoots and takedowns, I find that it limits  my own ability to sprawl that well.  But that you can do turn-overs, fast front and rear knees to the head and the like.  But it also leaves you vulnerable to having your arm trapped against your body and then you get a nasty dump.

I also find it to be not as effective against a good muy thai stylist.

I think it's something for a counter-fighter or a trickster rather than a straight forward freight train fighter.  I also note that it does leave you fairly well set up for Dog Catcher or a cross Tan Sao.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2011, 02:36:01 PM »

Resurrecting this thread.  Its not that there have not been examples, I get plenty of positive reports from people.  Just today I got a report from an Army friend who had to deal with a soldier from a different country who was getty froggy during combatives training.   Our man dropped him.  ("I knew the material was good, but I didn't appreciate how much power is loaded into cutting the angle on the outside diamond.  I knocked him back six feet and he landed in a heap out cold.")
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