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Crafty_Dog
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« on: September 01, 2008, 08:01:51 PM » |
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Woof All:
Please help me by bringing good knife attack and/or knife wound clips to my attention, either by posting here or by emailing them to me.
Thank you,
Guro Crafty
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« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 09:10:01 AM by Crafty_Dog »
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2008, 09:30:52 AM » |
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Woof Maxx: Perhaps it is sheer vanity on my part, but ever since DLO 1 came out I've been seeing a lot of demonstrations of Prison Sewing Machine attacks  This demonstration is well done, but it is a demonstration, not the actual thing- which is what I am looking for here. That said, it is giving me a starting point  TAC, CD |
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Maxx
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2008, 11:59:21 AM » |
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2008, 08:50:43 AM » |
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Only Maxx has any offerings in response to my request for help?
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Ronin
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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2008, 09:01:27 AM » |
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Nice finds Maxx. One thing we can say, thank goodness none of those people actually knew how to use a knife. Too bad for that Mom that was killed trying to stop the car jacking to save her baby. Breaks my heart when I hear things like that. |
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Ronin
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« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2008, 09:08:01 AM » |
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Ronin
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« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2008, 09:25:59 AM » |
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One thing we can take away from these and other clips is that it is never a solitary attack, all knife attacks involve multiple stabbing attacks, typically to the same target.
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Maxx
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« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2008, 09:28:17 AM » |
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[/quote]
Nice finds Maxx.
One thing we can say, thank goodness none of those people actually knew how to use a knife.
Too bad for that Mom that was killed trying to stop the car jacking to save her baby.
Breaks my heart when I hear things like that.
[/quote]
I don't care if they know how to use it or not. Someone swinging a knife at me has a black belt!!
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Ronin
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2008, 10:51:21 AM » |
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Nice finds Maxx. One thing we can say, thank goodness none of those people actually knew how to use a knife. Too bad for that Mom that was killed trying to stop the car jacking to save her baby. Breaks my heart when I hear things like that. [/quote] I don't care if they know how to use it or not. Someone swinging a knife at me has a black belt!! [/quote] LOL, you got that right ! |
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2008, 03:18:36 PM » |
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Crafty, Not sure what your exact goal is but I know Paladin Press put out a book called Knife Fighting Techniques From Folsom Prison by Don Pentecoste. In it there are some illustrations describing techniques similar to the sewing machine attack. There are also a ton of machete attacks on youtube. If this is also useful to you let me know and I'll fish around and post them. Tony Torre Miami Arnis Group www.miamiarnisgroup.com |
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2008, 10:20:57 AM » |
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The Pentecost book is a must read. I had a two hour conversation with him once that changed how I see certain things.
I would love to see the machete clips here too- thank you.
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2008, 09:27:46 PM » |
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2008, 07:59:30 AM » |
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Thank you.
Please keep them coming folks!
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2008, 01:15:31 PM » |
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JDN
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« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2008, 01:31:43 PM » |
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The Pentecost book is a must read. I had a two hour conversation with him once that changed how I see certain things.
It is a good book. Crafty, if you have time, could you elaborate on your comment "... that changed how I see certain things." james |
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Ronin
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« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2008, 06:19:24 AM » |
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If multiple attacker clips teach us one thing it is the crucial and vital importance of remaining standing and how underestimated and effective the old "grab his shirt and pull him down" move truly is. |
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2008, 08:35:57 PM » |
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Situational awareness is essential notice the guard closest to the camera interacting with an inmate palming a shank he didn't even notice  Tony Torre Miami Arnis Group www.miamiarnisgroup.com |
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Bambi
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« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2008, 06:17:25 AM » |
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This case attracted a good deal of public attention in the UK but that video looks like it's been edited. From memory: In the full clip the guy with the knife also stabs the second victim once (looked like it was the groin/inner thigh). He died soon after. The first victim survived the mulitple stabbings. |
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ush
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Ronin
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« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2008, 10:21:12 AM » |
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tankerdriver
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« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2008, 06:20:03 AM » |
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Liveleak.com has some videos with knife attacks. Real stuff, might be helpful.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2008, 10:08:58 AM » |
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And you would be helpful if you posted URLs of particularly interesting ones here  |
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tankerdriver
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« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2008, 10:24:47 AM » |
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anyone know how to post URL's.
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tankerdriver
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« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2008, 12:05:19 PM » |
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Mr. Crafty hows this for a knife wound. Uh...man I'm not hungry anymore! http://poetry.rotten.com/myanmar-hackjob/ |
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« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 01:45:05 PM by Crafty_Dog »
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tankerdriver
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« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2008, 12:05:48 PM » |
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tankerdriver
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« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2008, 12:07:33 PM » |
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2008, 10:31:58 AM » |
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Here's a real interesting one. I first saw it on tv and was unable to record it. The interesting thing about it are the strategies the victim uses to defend himself. It is exactly what I teach my students. 1) Run when possible & practical 2) If you cant run put a barrier between you and your assailant 3) Get a equalizer or better as soon as you can safely 4) Empty hand skills are a last resort http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRWz5t2y3_QTony Torre Miami Arnis Group www.miamiarnisgroup.com |
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Ronin
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« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2008, 06:47:09 AM » |
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Great find, thanks. Are they allowed to have dogs in prison?? |
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2008, 12:43:37 PM » |
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Ronin, In an episode of Locked Up Abroad they showed a Venezuelan prison where the inmates had guns Tony Torre Miami Arnis Group www.miamiarnisgroup.com |
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2008, 01:05:04 PM » |
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I am reminded of a saying I heard often in Mexico:
"Todo es prohibido, todo es posible." ("Everything is prohibited. Everything is possible")
During a three day stay in a Mexican prison in Chiapas (the state that borders Guatemala) I was not there long enough to see a lot, but had the sense of tremendous , , , flexibility in the application of rules. Furthermore, I work regularly with a Mexican prison SWAT type team in the state of Mexico (see the clip on our multimedia page of the day when I met them). I remember one conversation after I had shown our DLO Dogcatcher defense against the prison sewing machine. I was asked about reverse grip attacks. As the interaction continued, I realized that they were not talking about an icepick type of attack, but a reverse grip attack with the blade laying along the forearm. This tends to be a slashing attack instead of a thrusting attack which suprised me quite a bit. Thinking in American terms I asked how the cons made good edges. "Oh, we're not talking about shanks made here in the prison they explained, but real knives that get in through corruption" they explained.
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maija
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« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2008, 05:26:25 PM » |
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Good find, Tony. Alot to notice there....
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It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
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maija
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« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2008, 09:46:33 AM » |
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Tony,
This is what struck me from watching the video -
Both parties were armed and ready, so neither closes.
Red plays low to keep the most distance between him and black - red is playing defense (fears black?).
Strikes thrown are most, if not all slashes, not pokes (video quality makes it hard to see for sure).
Red throws many cuts. Black extends only 3 times, and only when he thinks he has a target.
Black plays blade close to his body, using weight shift and shuffle to stay out of range.
Each of black's cuts are thrown when red is extended.
Black taunts red to strike by posturing.
This clip shows well that you are open whenever you extend to cut.
Black has higher skill than red.
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It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2008, 10:47:07 AM » |
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I wonder if there werent some rules to this fight. I noticed no attacks to the face. The taller fighter had many opportunities to thrust at his opponents face. Also there was no follow up once there was a clear winner. In a shanking style attack it's usually to kill ones opponent. This was clearly a duel. To monday morning quarter back it I think reds biggest mistake was getting caught flat footed and unable to use his footwork to avoid blacks attack. Black clearly was more aggresive. Red used some fakes and did some back pedaling ultimately getting caught while deepening his stance. I think reds lack of commitment was his downfall. Tony Torre Miami Arnis Group www.miamiarnisgroup.com |
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« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 10:49:14 AM by Tony Torre »
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maija
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« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2008, 01:00:26 PM » |
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The fact that this was a duel clearly changes the dynamic of the interaction from that of a 'shanking', where I am assuming the object of the attack is presumed unarmed and unaware. Also in this case it seems that neither party wanted to die, just win - in this case judged by red conceding - which for me, makes this clip particularly interesting.
Red perhaps tried to fake, but "lack of commitment" ? Only because black gave him no opening to go for, as far as I could see.
Also seems like the couple times black actually went for a cut, they were all aimed high (face, upper body). The second time red really had to get his head out of the way which caused the backpedaling to accelerate. The deepening of his stance and the throwing out of a slash to gain range were indeed his ultimate downfall. He left his side totally open by extending forward whilst black was timing him and ready to lunge.
What I'm thinking about as a hypothetical exercise, is if in red's shoes, as it were, how would you fight black?
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It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2008, 08:48:35 PM » |
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Maija, It seemed to me that all the upper body targeting done by both parties where below the neck towards the upper chest. In one exchange in the middle of the fight blacks head is out of the frame. There you'll see the targeting of the upper chest pretty clearly. Early in the fight red made an attack to blacks leg. It fell short. It was either a fake or just lacked commitment. In fact several swipes fell short. This is probably due to fear of the counter cut. Blacks final cut showed definite commitment. I believe had the leg shot made contact it would have changed the momentum of the fight. By possibly limiting blacks mobility or maybe causing him to crane forward exposing his face to attacks. Black made several horizontal slashes towards reds upper body. The big one where he back pedaled was chest level just above the nipples. I think he(black) could have just as easily targeted the face. In the final exchange red got stuck in too low of a stance. He just wasn't in a good position to side step. Had he been more mobile he could have side stepped and thrust toward the face. I believe thrusting to the face after blacks horizontal swipes may have made a difference. I still think they where purposely avoiding face shots. This may may be an initiation ritual or a matter of honor. It seems like it was to the first definitive cut due to the lack of a finishing move after the big cut. They may be avoiding the face to avoid being too obvious to the authorities  We will never know for sure. Regardless it seems both guys had some idea of what they where doing. My 2 cents Tony Torre Miami Arnis Group www.miamiarnisgroup.com |
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maija
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« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2008, 09:21:56 AM » |
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Great points Tony, thanks!  Like you said it is Monday morning quarterbacking, but I think it is useful to watch others spar and fight to see the weaknesses and strengths of different tactics and techniques. Like you said, quote ".... it seems both guys had some idea of what they where doing", which for me made it a very interesting clip to watch. |
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It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2008, 11:48:40 AM » |
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maija
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« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2008, 04:01:16 PM » |
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Tony: 'Maija, What would you have done if you where red'?
HA HA HA ..... Now that would be telling ....
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It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2008, 07:35:20 PM » |
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Doppelgangster
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« Reply #45 on: December 24, 2008, 02:24:58 AM » |
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There's been lots of knife attack clips in the History Channel show Gangland. The episode on the Aryan Brotherhood has lots of stabbing videos, since so much of the gang's influence is inside prisons. Some old ex member had some interesting things to say about the psychology of stabbing a person. The episode on the Hell's Angels also showed some knife and melee weapon (tools etc) fights. Aryan Brotherhood episode (one clip of five): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S4HpuBUEAAHell's Angels clip (one of five): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QLs_XOmJ_gEach episode is about a different gang, and I'm sure there's more knife violence in some of the other ones, I just can't remember which ones. |
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maija
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« Reply #46 on: December 24, 2008, 10:19:18 AM » |
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Tony, Your 1st clip illustrates a point that Sonny often made - "Watch out for the other one...." In the Grandfathers Speak interview he describes an altercation he was involved in. You'll notice he describes targeting both assailants, the one in front of him and the one he knew would be behind him. And thanks for the other clips ... Michael Jackson is indeed a badass  |
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It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #47 on: December 24, 2008, 11:56:31 PM » |
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Dopplegangster, That was some interesting stuff. Maija, You're DA BOMB! Tony Torre Miami Arnis group www.miamiarnisgroup.com |
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #48 on: December 25, 2008, 12:35:21 PM » |
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2008, 12:34:06 PM » |
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