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Author Topic: Venezuela  (Read 95516 times)
ccp
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« Reply #350 on: May 10, 2016, 08:31:15 AM »

 "The man on the street does not know who will replace Maduro if recalled and does not seem to care."

This to me seems remarkable. Propaganda and censorship really does work I guess.

If people start to lack food than it may be as Michael Savage has suggested that is when they start to riot in the streets.

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DougMacG
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« Reply #351 on: May 10, 2016, 09:29:25 AM »

Thanks Denny.

I see similarities to Saddam's Iraq.  It's hard to organize a take to the street movement when they shoot opposition leaders in the head - openly in public, ignore it on the news and then there is barely any news of it anywhere else either.  Where is Venezuelan election observer Jimmy Carter on this?  Whether you get 99% support in elections under threat of death or lose 2/3rds and stay in power anyway is the same result.  Elections don't matter; it is rule by force.  Sometimes regime change support can only come from the outside and nobody ever seems to want that. 

American colonist revolutionaries had help from the French, Spanish, the Dutch and others and would not likely have succeeded without all of that.
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captainccs
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« Reply #352 on: May 10, 2016, 10:14:40 AM »

Quote
Where is Venezuelan election observer Jimmy Carter on this?

That SOB was bought by Chavez. The Colombian observer (Gaviria?) wanted to make a statement and he was made to shut up. Later Carter praised the election as "fair" after an interview with Chavez.
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Denny Schlesinger
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« Reply #353 on: May 15, 2016, 04:10:02 AM »

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/maduro-orders-seizure-of-closed-venezuela-factories-jailing-of-owners/ar-BBt3bLI

But, but, it's scientific!
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ccp
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« Reply #354 on: May 15, 2016, 09:48:22 AM »

 Carter

Every time he opens his mouth on the topic of politics I am reminded of what a progressive fool he was and still is.

He is no longer the best post President in our lifetime.

he won't be missed once the melanoma takes him to where we all go in the end.
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DougMacG
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« Reply #355 on: May 16, 2016, 08:19:27 AM »

We consider our states to be 50 laboratories of democracy.  We can try different polices and see how they work.  That is my fascination with Venezuela as well.  

There are a ton of stories about Venezuela recently and over the weekend.  Terrible scarcities, chaos, assassination, coup speculation, inflation and so on.

Recalling the Jimmy Carter fiasco, my understanding is that he was our election, see-no-evil, observer during a Chavez recall election when Chavez was losing 40-60 and the official government cheating made that into a 60-40 victory.  My own shock wasn't the expected cheating but the fact that 40% still supported policies of economic failure.  The cheating would have been harder to hide if that support had been closer to zero.

This Saturday in Venezuela:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/maduro-orders-seizure-of-closed-venezuela-factories-jailing-of-owners/ar-BBt3bLI?ocid=iehp
Maduro orders seizure of closed Venezuela factories, jailing of owners
Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro on Saturday ordered authorities to seize factories that have stopped production and jail their owners, a day after declaring a state of emergency to combat the country's economic crisis.
"We must take all measures to recover productive capacity, which is being paralyzed by the bourgeoisie," he told a rally in Caracas.
"Anyone who wants to halt (production) to sabotage the country should get out, and those who do must be handcuffed and sent to the PGV (Venezuelan General Penitentiary)," he said

It would be an exaggeration to say that these are the policies young people here in the US at Sanders and Clinton rallies are supporting, but effectively, these are the economic policies we are pursuing and they are supporting and we know they don't work.  Minimum wage is just one example, government mandates what the private sector must do whether is makes economic or business sense or not.  Even the Trump side wants to take your assets if you try to close or leave.  How is that working in places that are further along wih it?

https://panampost.com/panam-staff/2016/05/14/venezuela-is-on-the-brink-of-social-collapse-national-guardsman/
Shortages Cause Daily Looting, Energy Crisis Worsens as National State of Emergency Approaches, May 14, 2016

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-concern-grows-over-possible-venezuela-meltdown-officials-022241019.html?nhp=1   Reuters: "an unraveling socialist economy"

Is there some other kind?

« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 09:02:00 AM by DougMacG » Logged
captainccs
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« Reply #356 on: May 16, 2016, 11:18:00 AM »

Local analysis by The Devil (Miguel Octavio):


Maduro “Announces” New Emergency Powers Decree
May 15, 2016

Last Friday, President Maduro announced that he would extend the economic emergency powers decree (The same one that the National Assembly did not approve, but the Supreme Court said it did not matter) and announced that he would also decree a state of exception to “neutralize and defeat the external aggression against our country”

Now, you would think that given the importance of such a decree, the Government would have distributed a copy by now, but, no such luck, the details of the decree are unknown. Maduro will apparently issue it taking advantage of the Supreme Court’s ruling on the prior economic power decree, in which the “High” Court simply scratched part of the Constitution (Art. 339 of the Constitution, for example)  saying the Assembly did not have to approve the decree.

Some people are calling this a “coup”. I disagree. You can’t have a coup when you already staged one. I can’t even recall when this happened and one could argue when it was. It may have been when Chávez was never sworn in in Jan. 2013, as Chavismo suggested this was simply a “formality”. Or it may have been when Maduro took over from Chávez for the new term, despite the fact that the VP is named by the President and there is no proof that Chávez was even conscious at the time. Or it may have been when the Supreme Court twisted and violated the Constitution dozens of time, just to have the Government get its way.

So many coups and nobody has been counting them, but this was not it!

And the funny thing is that just last week, the Venezuelan Foreign Minister went to the UN to say there was no crisis in Venezuela, no emergency. Funny, no? the President not only extends the economic emergency decree, but also expands it to include a state of emergency.

And it just so happens that during a state of emergency, there can be no public gatherings like those the opposition has been promoting to protest the recurrent delays in the processing of the request for a recall referendum vote against none other than President Nicolas Maduro. Each step of the process has been delayed, over-interpreted and postponed, using vaporous interpretations by the Government-controlled Electoral Board. Which, of course has everything to do with trying to delay a recall vote until after Jan. 10th. 2017, when if Maduro is recalled, his personally-chosen active Vice-President would replace him and complete his term until Jan. 2019.

And thus, the threat is not from the outside, as Maduro wants you or someone to believe, but from the inside: the fear that the opposition will increasingly take to the streets to force a recall vote before the fateful date of Jan. 10th. 2017.

Thus, the guessing game begins as to who the VP will be in January. Opposition lore will have it be current VP Aristobulo Isturiz, “someone we can talk to”. Forget it! Aristobulo does not have the red credentials, nor the trust of Chavismo, precisely because the opposition can talk to him. It will likely be someone who is in the Cabinet, someone Maduro trusts. Perhaps Marco Torre, a loyal former military a perennial Cabinet member. Perhaps better a civilian, Jorge Rodriguez, loyal to Chávez and Nicolas. But who knows? There is still a lot of time before January and maybe not enough people will show up for a recall after that date*.

Stay tuned.

*Maybe I placed too much emphasis on who will replace him, but the more I think about it, the more I believe that there will not be much motivation to change Maduro for someone else. Remember that the opposition needs to get more votes to recall than Maduro got in his Presidential election.

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Denny Schlesinger
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« Reply #357 on: May 16, 2016, 11:31:24 AM »

 shocked shocked shocked
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