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Author Topic: Vehicles, driving skills, crime, related issues  (Read 2930 times)
Crafty_Dog
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« on: December 21, 2008, 05:10:45 PM »

A lot of self-defense issues arise in the context of vehicles.  This thread is for discussing such things.  I kick things off with a skills related post pasting something posted by GM on the P&R forum:

============

Insert Quote
http://www.1adsi.com/Pics.htm

Slalom 36-42 Mph

The Slalom drill allows the student to learn and practice many skills however the most important of these lessons would be to experience the lateral forces acting on the car. By forcing the student to keep there speed stable we are isolating the steering wheel. As the speed increases more and more steering input needs to be used. When the student becomes comfortable and proficient with controlling the forces produced by a certain speed the instructor will increase the speed by just two miles an hour. This does not feel like much of an increase, but remember small increases of speed act greatly on forces applied to the vehicle. This rule is especially true when reaching the vehicle's maximum limitations. A proficient driver who understands vehicle dynamics will be able to use a higher percentage of the vehicles capabilities.

This does not imply higher speeds, since potential accidents need to be avoided at all speeds. Notice the top speed in our slalom videos only reaches 40 MPH. 42 MPH. is impossible for even the best driver in the world. Successfully completing our 60-foot slalom with a police package Crown Vic. would be an act that defies the laws of physics.

As you look at the following video pics take notice to the small speed increases and the dramatic differences in the forces acting on the car. (All speeds and reactions based on maximum limit .85G 's Police Package Crown Vic) At 36 MPH you will hear a slide tire squeal and see moderate lateral weight transfer. At 38 MPH that tire squeal will become much more apparent as the added force causes the tires to begin to lose adhesion. At 40 MPH the vehicle will actually be on the edge of control. As the vehicle starts to lose control (sliding sideways) an aggressive and fast reacting driver will be able to regain control. At 42 MPH it is not possible to for the best driver in the world to negotiate the 60' slalom in our .85 G Crown Vics.
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2008, 06:16:01 PM »

I think it should begin with good driving skills.  Things like keeping appropriate distance from other cars both when moving and stopped.  Effective use of mirrors and scanning.  Awareness, awareness, awareness.

Tony Torre
Miami Arnis Group
www.miamiarnisgroup.com
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TonyPeters
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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2008, 07:43:44 PM »

Woof!

It's important to keep distance from other cars when stopped at red lights. Leave yourself enough room to turn the wheel and leave the area if need be. I see too many people that either stop their car too close or stop with enough room but then as they get impatient waiting for the green and they inch up little by little, decreasing their "escape route". From a stalled car, to road rage, to a car jacking; the average "condition-white" citizen doesn't even give things like these any thought. So don't be caught driving while white...condition white that is!  grin 

-Tony
« Last Edit: December 21, 2008, 10:57:58 PM by TonyPeters » Logged

"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." ~George Orwell
JAK
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2008, 10:53:45 PM »

With car jacking being so prevalent I have started working my people on fighting when one person in the car the attacker on the outside trying to gain control.

Josh
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Train like a madman, fight like a demon
Tony Torre
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« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2008, 10:21:34 AM »

Here's some clips on gun fighting in cars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KmZJ5GJ3Oo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1ckXOkyLSk

Real important basics!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6fT1D2-YYI&feature=related

Tony Torre
Miami Arnis Group
www.miamiarnisgroup.com
« Last Edit: December 25, 2008, 10:31:01 AM by Tony Torre » Logged
Tony Torre
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« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2008, 12:29:12 PM »

Cool info on using cars for cover.

http://www.centuriontraininggroup.org/site/images/stories/pdfs/bullet_vs_car.pdf

Tony Torre
Miami Arnis Group
www.miamiarnisgroup.com
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2008, 05:52:11 PM »

Tony P makes a good point about leaving space in front of you when stopped for a light.  I believe this saved me one time from being carjecked.  Briefly, what happened is this:

I stopped in the #2 turn lane and left plenty of space in front of me.  A ratty van with 3 gang banger types pulled up along side me in the #1 turn lane.  This was odd because there was no one in front of them.  Spider sense tingled! The one in the passenger seat gestured towards me as if he wanted to talk and began getting out of the van.   I pulled forward several feet and reached under my seat while maintaining indirect visual on him out of the corner of my eye.  He got back in his van and it too moved forward several feet and again the second man began getting out.  I made a very deliberate gesture reaching under my seat and maintained indirect visual contact.  He got back in.  The light changed to green and as they drove by me we exchanged some very hard looks.

Given the POS that my truck is, I found it hard to comprehend that anyone would want to steal it.  When I told Gabe Suarez the story he said he thought that they probably simply saw the set up in the turn lanes as tactically desirable and simply wanted to take my truck to use it in some crime and then abandon it.

I sometimes tell this story when asked if I ever have had to use a gun in self-defense.  evil cheesy

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TonyPeters
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« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2008, 07:18:00 PM »

Great 360 degree situational awareness Guro! They must have been expecting someone less "crafty" wink. I tell my students that when your safety may be in jeopardy, you rarely get the opportunity to really see if your "awareness" had an influence on the outcome of your unsafe situation. Sometimes you will just be left to wonder if it made a difference. I always remind them that if they are able to wonder if it made a difference then it did!

-Tony   
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"Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." ~George Orwell
DougMacG
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« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2009, 11:05:06 AM »

Following up on some excellent info GM posted in 'politics' page 5 regarding speed, driving skills and accidents.  We accept a lot of carnage for mobility.  We also trade away some liberty, such as how fast to drive on an empty freeway, in exchange for attempts at safety and conformance including speed limits that are often established from far away. 

No question speed magnifies the damage in collisions and I wholly subscribe to the cushion of air theory where you refuse to let people follow in your blind spot and refuse to allow trucks (or anyone else) to surround you in a center lane of a freeway.  I quibble slightly with a few smaller points made.  Following distance IMO depends also on visibility PAST the vehicle you are following and other factors like equipment and attentiveness.  3/4 of a second may be average but I would certainly like to think that I am faster than that to begin applying brakes.  A second sounds fast but counting them out: one-thou-sand-one-pause-one-thousand-two... an attentive, anticipative driver should not take 3/4 second to get started.

A quote regarding ABS brakes: "we strongly recommend that buyers choose a car equipped with antilock brakes (ABS)...in order to get the most out of ABS in emergency braking situations, you have to know how to use it. And really, it couldn't be easier; you just stomp on the pedal...Many new cars come with antilock brakes as standard equipment, but you must often purchase them as an option on low- to moderately priced cars.

Of the vehicles I drive, 2 have ABS, 2 don't and on 2 others I'm just not sure.  Now let's assume a child darts out on one of our snowy-salty-icy Minnesota streets.  Would you really like my reflex to be to "just stomp on the pedal" rather than the old fashioned way of trying to maximize braking without locking up? 
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2009, 06:28:38 PM »



Excellent case study http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-79K6wpbwY

Footage is so perfect one almost wonders if its staged, but , , ,
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2009, 12:13:34 PM »

Interesting link.

http://www.crimedoctor.com/personal-safety-videos-06.htm

Tony Torre
Miami Arnis Group
www.miamiarnisgroup.com
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Kaju Dog
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organ donor


« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2010, 11:11:05 AM »

A message from one of our Naval Leaders came my way today...  read on:

In California, the "Move-over" law become operative on January 1, 2010.

http://www.moveoveramerica.com/

Important Law to Share:

I wanted to let my Medlock Bridge neighbors know about the CA move over law.
My son got a ticket on Pleasant Hill coming back from Wal-Mart. A Duluth
police car (turned out it was 2 police cars) was on the side of the road
giving a ticket to someone else. My son slowed down to pass but did not move
into the other lane. The second police car immediately pulled him over and
gave him a ticket. My son and I had never heard of the law. It is a fairly
new law that states if any emergency vehicle is on the side of the road, if
you are able, you are to move into the far lane.

The cost of the ticket was $754, with 3 points on your license and a
mandatory court appearance.


Please let everyone you know that drives about this new law.

It is true (see details at the following web address). It states that except
two states, all the other US states (even Canada ) enacted similar kind of
law.

http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist07/Publications/Inside7/story.php?id=428&cat=feat

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prentice crawford
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2010, 05:23:01 AM »

Woof,
 With all the attention going toward officers being killed by guns we are made to forget that people die by other means; www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-09-police-deaths_x.htm
                         P.C.
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Rarick
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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2010, 06:51:03 AM »

I suspect that the officers are getting increasing distraction with the communications in the cruisers.  I have seen laptops gradually filtering into the cruisers making ID and Plate checks easier, but they also can be a driving distraction.   I would not be surprised if the cruiser is starting to have more of a Cockpit like a jet fighter than a regular dashboard and radio..............

I know pillots get trained in "scan-Pattern" and mindshare and compartmentalization, maybe that would help.
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