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Author Topic: Self Defense with Pistols  (Read 11693 times)
prentice crawford
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« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2011, 08:05:52 AM »

I am curious about something, and this seems to be the place for it:  In my mind, it seems that it is likely that there have been more incidents of defense with a gun in the home, and more instances of defense with some other kind of weapon out in the world.  Anyone know how that breaks down?
Woof dreatx,
 
 You will probably have trouble hashing the statistic's out on that one. Most private and government entities that are interested in such numbers usually only want to use them for political fodder, and since most big cities (where most of the crimes and deaths occur), are ran by Liberals, they are generally only interested in keeping records on gun deaths committed by violent criminals. They are not all that interested in how many people are stabbed or beaten to death and they are definitely not interested in how many people legally and successfully defend themselves against violence, by any method; gun or otherwise.

 You see if they started keeping those kinds of records then that would show how many innocent lives were potentially saved by the use of a weapon in the hands of a law abiding citizen. They are afraid of that number because then they wouldn't be able to justify their calls for more gun control. Why would they want more gun control that restricts law abiding citizens from having guns, when the crooks and murderer's just break those laws, leaving citizens defenseless?

 Well, they want you to need government protection, that way they can hire government employee's (cops, fire fighters, teachers, all unionized of course), that will also be dependant on a government check and benefits, then after they have wasted your tax dollars and need more, they can threaten you with taking the police off the street and let the riots, looting and burning begin. That's only half of it though; you see they need criminals to make this work, so they crowd millions of people into certain areas of these big liberal city's, make sure that all the jobs dry up or get sent overseas, then put a government roof over their head and give them just enough food stamps to keep them alive, make them angry at the world by telling them slavery from 200 hundred years ago put them there, then just set back and wait until the despair, depression, and hopelessness of their situation drives them to self medicate with illegal drugs and alcohol and turn to crime to get the money they need to buy the things they need and want.

 Of course drug users, attract drug dealers, and things get violent when they compete with each other, so they need gangs and the gangs raise the kids, because daddy is in jail and mom is stoned. You keep the borders wide open so the drugs keep coming and as a added benefit you get illegal immigrants and they fill any jobs left and also become depended on government handouts. You don't let prayer or the Ten Commandments in the schools because prayer might give them hope and the Commandments might contradict what they learn in the gangs. You know, all that 'thou shalt not kill' crap. Of course they won't be in school long anyway because most will drop out, which doesn't bother the teachers, so long as they get more pay and benefits and if they don't, they'll strike with the cops and fire fighters.

 Now the government has a nice little round robin, closed system, to manipulate and control, all for their own corrupt reasons and benefit. It's really a brilliant scheme because the elite in the government get all the power and money and then they blame all the problems on guns, or slavery from 200 hundred years ago, or greedy corporations, or global warming or guns (did I say guns twice?). They are really creative when it comes to finding something to blame while they keep accumulating power and control. Well, I got little off your question there but to answer it. No, no one knows how that breaks down. wink
                                            
                                  P.C.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 08:12:37 AM by prentice crawford » Logged

G M
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« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2011, 08:18:09 AM »

I am curious about something, and this seems to be the place for it:  In my mind, it seems that it is likely that there have been more incidents of defense with a gun in the home, and more instances of defense with some other kind of weapon out in the world.  Anyone know how that breaks down?

Aside from what PC wrote, I'll add that in "Shall issue" CCW states, a very small percentage of the public actually goes through the process to get a CCW permit. Once the coolness factor wears off, the truth is carrying concealed is a pain in the ass. So, I doubt many who can legally carry actually do so on a regular basis. However, depending on the region of the US, a good percentage of US homes have at least one firearm inside.
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dreatx
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« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2011, 12:19:25 PM »

Interesting.  I must add that conservatives are very invested in making sure you stay under the government thumb (police and many "law and order" types tend to identify with the conservative side), as well.

I do see how it probably will be impossible to see how the use of weapons breaks down.  That is too bad, but I will keep reading.

I started thinking about this because it seems to me that a somewhat fit, somewhat trained person can manage almost everything, outside of the home with smarts, awareness and maybe a blade or impact weapon.  However, it seems like home invasions would require firearms, simply because of the intention of the invader, the surprise factor and the isolation factor.  These are only my thoughts and I am not a LEO and am only familiar with certain kinds of violence which may not even cover half of the things that happen to people.  All this to say; I may have some illusions and need to get rid of them.
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G M
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« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2011, 12:24:21 PM »

Interesting.  I must add that conservatives are very invested in making sure you stay under the government thumb (police and many "law and order" types tend to identify with the conservative side), as well.

There is a difference betwen a rule of law as part of a limited government vs. a invasive nanny-state where minor crimes are used to extract revenue while felons run wild, see California as an example of this.
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G M
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« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2011, 12:29:50 PM »

I started thinking about this because it seems to me that a somewhat fit, somewhat trained person can manage almost everything, outside of the home with smarts, awareness and maybe a blade or impact weapon.

All those are good, however a gun or two is a serious improvement when facing deadly force threats.
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dreatx
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« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2011, 01:30:07 PM »

"There is a difference between a rule of law as part of a limited government vs. a invasive nanny-state where minor crimes are used to extract revenue while felons run wild, see California as an example of this."

You are certainly correct but we don't have that and I do not see many examples of conservative leaning persons actually wanting that.  I see a lot of cries for lower taxes (I can relate) and greater freedom for business (more complicated but I can relate).  On the law and order side of things, many people, self identifying as conservative, see absolute submission to the government's agents as necessary.  Many confrontations with the government representatives come, not from a violation, but from being slow to demonstrate complete submission.  Any encounter with a government agent can end in your death.  This disturbs me.  Most likely, it will not because most government reps will not escalate confrontations that far  and most people will lay down and expose their bellies. 

"All those are good, however a gun or two is a serious improvement when facing deadly force threats."

I definitely agree with you here.  I guess I am in the process of trying to sort out how I can find myself in these positions and how to behave if I do.  Since I am not a LEO and I do not live in a rough area, my exposure to deadly force threats has been minimal.  Some of what I read and hear people say seems to be a bit of an overreaction.  Still, we already know that I am very underexposed and probably wrong.  Also, you hear that saying "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."  I am TERRIFIED of the criminal justice system and hope that if ever faced with force, my response is appropriate.  BTW, I do have guns and I do shoot them.  I just don't take them places with me.
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G M
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« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2011, 01:54:56 PM »

On the law and order side of things, many people, self identifying as conservative, see absolute submission to the government's agents as necessary.  Many confrontations with the government representatives come, not from a violation, but from being slow to demonstrate complete submission.  Any encounter with a government agent can end in your death.  This disturbs me.  Most likely, it will not because most government reps will not escalate confrontations that far  and most people will lay down and expose their bellies.

That's because in a nation of laws, government agents are empowered to enforce those laws. If you do not like the laws, one has the opportunity to work to change them though legislation or to challenge them in the courts. Failure to obey the laws on the other hand is not a viable option, something that was established at the founding of this nation. In addition, creating a confrontation with law enforcement has very bad consequences on a practical level.Funny how some people who consider themselves conservatives don't understand this.
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dreatx
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« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2011, 04:00:43 PM »

I will say this and then leave it alone:  obeying the law and absolute submission to the government's agents is not the same thing and should not be considered the same thing.  The government's agents are citizens of the country and, allegedly, work for the citizens.  They do not own the citizens.  Also, saying what I just said does not mean that I believe murderers and such should not be arrested.
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G M
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« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2011, 04:21:56 PM »

"They do not own the citizens."

Has anyone said that they do?
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dreatx
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« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2011, 05:27:59 PM »

I was making a statement based on how I feel about the subject and based on how I perceive things work, currently.  I did not attribute anything to anyone.
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prentice crawford
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« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2011, 06:55:58 PM »

Interesting.  I must add that conservatives are very invested in making sure you stay under the government thumb (police and many "law and order" types tend to identify with the conservative side), as well.

I do see how it probably will be impossible to see how the use of weapons breaks down.  That is too bad, but I will keep reading.

I started thinking about this because it seems to me that a somewhat fit, somewhat trained person can manage almost everything, outside of the home with smarts, awareness and maybe a blade or impact weapon.  However, it seems like home invasions would require firearms, simply because of the intention of the invader, the surprise factor and the isolation factor.  These are only my thoughts and I am not a LEO and am only familiar with certain kinds of violence which may not even cover half of the things that happen to people.  All this to say; I may have some illusions and need to get rid of them.
Woof dreatx,
 Certain members of our society are targeted by criminals because they can't fight back so well, and to use a knife or impact weapon you still need to be able to block blows and get around their blocks to make contact with the weapon. Often there are more than one attacker and while you're tied up with one of them going toe to toe, trying to stick your knife in him, his buddies are stabbing you to death or pull out their guns and shoot you. If you have your wife and family with you, what's happening to them while you are knife fighting, are you going to hold all them bad guys at knife point or worse stick point? One of them is going to grab your kid. There are other reasons why concealed firearms are needed for personal protection out on the street, but one that is often ignored is the deterrent factor. If the bad guys can't tell who's armed then even a little old lady doesn't look so helpless to them.
                                                           P.C.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 07:01:41 PM by prentice crawford » Logged

dreatx
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« Reply #61 on: December 16, 2011, 07:14:06 PM »

"If you have your wife and family with you, what's happening to them while you are knife fighting, are you going to hold all them bad guys at knife point or worse stick point? One of them is going to grab your kid. "

See, this is why it is good to talk to people about things.  I have no wife or kids, so I did not even consider the idea that one might have to worry about them.  I am going to reread the thread about people defending themselves or others.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2011, 06:38:50 AM »

Exemplary attitude.  As the saying says "Minds are like parachutes; they work best when open."
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prentice crawford
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« Reply #63 on: January 12, 2012, 09:08:49 PM »

Woof,
 Uzi. It's good to know what you might come up against out there.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/s30IjVts73M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

                              P.C.
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Spartan Dog
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« Reply #64 on: January 18, 2012, 10:00:47 PM »

Woof,
 Uzi. It's good to know what you might come up against out there.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/s30IjVts73M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

                              P.C.

The above link is not correct...see below for what PC intended to share...

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Kostas "Spartan Dog" Tountas
DBMA Training Group, Athens, Greece
http://www.dogbrothers.gr/
Spartan Dog
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« Reply #65 on: January 18, 2012, 10:03:34 PM »

Though I am not much interested in guns, I thought the following might be an interesting starting point for a discussion...

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Kostas "Spartan Dog" Tountas
DBMA Training Group, Athens, Greece
http://www.dogbrothers.gr/
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #66 on: January 18, 2012, 10:19:52 PM »

I would note that there seems to have been zero preparation of these students by the police for actually drawing the gun.  Then the students were given holsters remarkably unsuited for drawing the gun while wearing clothing that made the draw even less likely to succeed.
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prentice crawford
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« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2012, 03:53:12 PM »

Woof,
 You will find that this so called study was prepared by the Violence Policy Center AKA Handgun Control Inc.  tongue They have been distorting crime statistics and misleading the American public with false studies like this one and spread by the Liberal gun hating media for years.

                                   P.C.
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prentice crawford
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Posts: 765


« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2012, 04:10:42 PM »

Woof,
 Let's see what happens in real, real life not faked real life...

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Blq_a_lqDBs?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/g1zZGe3f0mc?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/P6pYEJhIFxQ?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oPYu4Mu2dto?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tiiQQP4-Ijw?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

                                    P.C. grin
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 04:30:57 PM by prentice crawford » Logged

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