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Author Topic: Kali Tudo 4: The Dog Leg Game  (Read 2177 times)
Crafty_Dog
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« on: March 14, 2010, 11:47:29 PM »

Woof All:

Boo Dog is one of the current standout Dog Brothers.  He brings an unusually well-rounded and distinctive game to the fight, including very stong kicking skills of that aren't supposed to be applicable in a stick fight (see e.g. the clip of the most recent Gathering to see him doing a spinning heel hook to the head behind a back hand strike) and outstanding MMA skills (see e.g. the clip of the most recent Gathering to see him doing a suplex on someone) based upon his being an instructor in LaBelle-Gokor K____ian and a regular sparring partner of major MMA fighters such as Manny Gamborian.

We have been getting together regularly on Sunday mornings and he has definitely been helping me develop my KT game.  Not only does he show me some really good ideas, but now that I am no longer young enough to give my ideas a fair test, he becomes someone with whom I can share KT and have him go test it with serious professional fighters.  cool cool cool

Because Boo looks at MMA with a Dog Brother/KT mind, he has developed two games which definitely meet the KT criteria.  Sometime later this year we will be shooting a DVD featuring Boo Dog  "DBMA Kali Tudo 4: The Dog Leg Game".  The Dog Leg Game integrates nicely with the Running Dog Game and like all KT material meets the criteria of the "Die Less Often- the interface of Gun, Knife, and Empty Hand."

Stay tuned!
Guro Crafty
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jkdsouljah
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2010, 09:05:06 PM »

Hi Crafty

When you say all KT material meets DLO criteria, is this a reference to 360 degree awareness for street, or are there more specifics? smiley

Looking forward to KT3 and 4.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2010, 11:32:14 PM »

Amongst the DLO criteria:

a) As you mention, 360 degree awareness
b) Preventing his weapon access, and enabling yours
c) "consistency across categories" responses to empty hands and contact weapons are essentially the same
d) etc
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2010, 07:21:58 PM »

I've been continuing to explore the Dog Leg Game in my Friday afternoon rolls during open mat time over at Rigan's place and my understanding is starting to come together.  I think Boo Dog really has something here.
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jkdsouljah
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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2010, 06:01:53 AM »

Is there a point where the distinction between KT and DLO will become very blurred? Does/will KT have certain sporting elements not suitable for the street/DLO? DLO obvviously has the weapons element, not suitable for KT. I guess my questions are getting at "whats the ultimate difference between KT and DLO?"

Thanks!
Trevor
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2010, 06:27:22 PM »


That's a very good questin JKDS.

Once of the core underlying concepts of DBMA is "consistency across categories" i.e. that our idioms of movement should be essentially the same no matter if we are unarmed or armed, and if armed, no matter the weapon.   In KT we look to bring our stick and knife fighing idioms of movement to empty hands in the adrenal state because DLO requires we respond with this idiom of movment whether the attacker is unarmed or armed precisely because often we do not know in timely manner whether he is armed or not.  However, if we have not tested these idioms of movement empty handed in the adrenal state, then probably we will not turn them in moments of true danger.

There is more, but this is all I have time for at the moment.
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jkdsouljah
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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2010, 07:40:45 PM »

Thanks Guro Crafty. I'm starting to see the picture better and look forward to your further clarification. If I can add another variable to my question:

if the same idiom of movement is required in both KT and DLO in particular, then it seems the difference lies mainly in the context in which these skills are being applied and the relative differences in rhythm/cadence, ritual, environments, opponent's intent, etc. between the two contexts.
 
However, if we are gearing our training primarily for the street, why not work empty-hand vs empty-hand in an adrenal state through scenario training that replicates the same timing/rhythm/cadence/ritual/environmental considerations of the street, exactly like I understand DLO already does, and in that way, enhance consistency across categories? It seems to be taking an indirect route to pressure test EH material through MMA.

Or am I getting close to somewhere near my original question of where do the two programs blur? Smiley
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 07:43:56 PM by jkdsouljah » Logged

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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2010, 09:09:43 PM »

Not sure if I understand something here:  Are you saying that scenario training should assume EH on the part of the other?
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jkdsouljah
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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2010, 09:15:22 PM »

not at all, scenario training should assume the presence of a weapon. I'm simply asking why not train EH responses to EH or weapons attacks in a force-on-force scenario environment instead of an MMA environment?
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selfcritical
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2010, 01:03:21 PM »

I think a good answer is because MMA guys can challenge you more EH. Practicing your empty hand responses against people who are really, really good at it has some positive effects on composure and attributes.
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jkdsouljah
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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2010, 08:32:05 PM »

Agreed that MMA certainly forces you to work a broader range of skills, and I think that's an important aspect. I also think that the scenario training challenges you more emotionally/psychologically than MMA does; that is, if you are realistically replicating real-world, real-scary scenarios where Murphy is God and the violence brought forth by an attacker looks nothing like MMA, then that calls for a different state-of-mind, and also calls for an additional set of tools in the form of fear management, tactical appropriateness/decision-making, identification of pre-contact cues leading up to the attack, etc as well as other 'attributes' such as awareness that sport does not touch on to the same degree.

As I understand, DLO covers all this, and I was only thinking that Kali Tudo could actually be trained in the same way. People have long known through sports science/psychology that exercises and drills that yield the most benefit when it comes to the game have a direct correlation to the game (what they call sport-specificity). The strength exercise that Guro Crafty shows on Kali Tudo 2 is a great example of this.

In the end, I think it all boils down to your specific training goals and what you are training for. Having said all that, the two contexts overlap to be sure, and in my mind, Kali Tudo represents a kind of nexus between the sport world and the 'reality-based' world. I think Kali Tudo certainly could diverge off on a tangent toward scenario training, if one's goals lie in that direction. Or one could remain on the so-called sport path, but at the same time, abide by the criteria for DLO.

On the other hand, although my limited understanding of DLO is that it's weapon-oriented material, if one's goals lie directly in the self-preservation direction, DLO material is probably equally applicable vs unarmed attacks. DLO and KT are simply different pieces of the same puzzle sharing common links - I think I've clarified my own understanding of the differences between the two. smiley

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"You never know how much you can do, until you try to do more than you can." (Tony Blauer)
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