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Author Topic: Study: 3 vs. 1 in BC  (Read 1384 times)
Crafty_Dog
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« on: July 19, 2009, 02:33:21 AM »


Please discuss:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIjG4OJEHnI

I'd like to suggest commenting after watching only one time (e.g. like you might have to do as a witness) then comment after watching as much as you like. AFTER you make your initial comments, you may wish to view this.

background info:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIjG4OJEHnI
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rachelg
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2009, 11:27:52 AM »

Marc,

Both links are identical.
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bedens
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2009, 10:38:07 AM »

A few of thoughts:

1 ) First thought when watching it was, where was #3 going? He took off at the beginning, and I was waiting for him to circle back around to the defender's flank.
2 ) Defender definitely has some sort of training. Good lateral movement and staying on his toes while moving, then getting a solid base when stopped.
3 ) Also good environmental awareness by the defender, making sure he he didn't get stuck between cars, etc.
4 ) Attackers seemed to rely solely on numbers and not skills. Only one person would even attack at a time, usually the guy in the gray tank top, until the defender fell down. Then they got brave.
5 ) Dog sure wanted a piece of someone Smiley
6 ) It's easy to be big and brave when you're in the back of a truck moving away.
7 ) I wonder how the scuffle would have gone if the car and van had not pulled in. That seemed to give the attackers a reason to bail.
8 ) Van driver decided pretty quickly to move Smiley
9 ) I wonder why the guy driving the truck stayed out of it. Maybe he was their safety valve / wheels only.
10 ) Better audio would have been better, to hear what all occurred throughout.

Would be interested to see the other video with the background info too...

- Bert
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 10:43:27 AM by bedens » Logged
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2009, 11:54:36 AM »

Here's the second link I meant to post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB3JUGqc5k4

For the moment I offer this to the mix:
===========


How long has fight been going on? What we see here is 2:10, but fight is already in progress. (interview sheds a bit of light) Once again we see importance of conditioning. Several minutes of adrenal pump against three guys out of the clear blue is not something any Joe Blow can do. Black Guy, a lefty (right lead) seems to have some experience with boxing lateral footwork. How many untrained people would produce this? Pretty good job of positioning so that only one White Guy can get to him at a time. Lack of will to close by WGs certainly helps. Is there anything he can do better?


0:51 Three abreast by WGs with stage right shut off presents B. with trouble for a moment. He must exert himself here. Good conditioning. Breaks left and is in empty parking space between two cars.

1:00 Shirt forces the range. Could B. have angled better here with Left Lead?

1:10 et seq. Would B. have been better continuing away from camera? Or is he trying to work his way home?

1:15 B. gets caught by left lead jab. Shirt loses shoe on kick.

1:17 How should B. have gotten up in this moment? As Wolf Pack closes, B. seems to think about a take down. Training? Instinctive?.

1:22 The dog (some sort of terrier?) which has been barking and randomly seen on camera throughout, gets within biting range. With his head on the other side of WG on ground, how aware is B. of dog? Good thing he doesn't actually bite!

1:30 Two cars enter scene. By accident or on purpose? Either way, this seems to tip WGs into leaving. Should B. have followed them at this point? As he approaches he catches a right hook at the car door AND he leaves his back to shirt (who has been putting his shoe back on.

1:36 Dog engages to little effect. Good thing he is too short to bite B's genitals.

1:40 B. declares that this is his turf? Shirt, shoe now on, starts to approach but his buds are ready to leave and call their dog into truck at 1:49

1:57 Fat woman approaches? Known? Unknown? If unknown, how should B handle her at this point?
 
 
 

« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 11:58:21 AM by Crafty_Dog » Logged
bedens
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2009, 04:26:16 PM »

Quote from: Crafty_Dog
1:10 et seq. Would B. have been better continuing away from camera? Or is he trying to work his way home?

Perhaps he got so caught up in moving laterally (Maybe saying "Just keep moving, just keeping moving" internally to himself), he didn't take the opportunity to escape. In the interview, he states he was wanting to stand up so it wouldn't happen again, so perhaps that's part of it. Rather than try to escape, just keep it so he's not at a disadvantage...

That shove that leveled one of the WGs was great timing. WG had his left leg up for a kick, and that shove was well placed and timed.

Defender also said he was on his way to the gym, so yes, conditioning, even with all the adrenal dump, must have been great.

Quote from: Crafty_Dog
1:15 B. gets caught by left lead jab. Shirt loses shoe on kick.

I think he stopped to admire his handiwork too much, or he thought putting one of them down might make the others back off.

Quote from: Crafty_Dog
1:17 How should B. have gotten up in this moment? As Wolf Pack closes, B. seems to think about a take down. Training? Instinctive?.

The guy who did the majority of the work on the takedown had a good choke on Defender. When they go to the ground, the Defender puts his arms around the WG, rather than putting his hands down to catch himself. Maybe that's a sign of training? He also focused on the task at hand: the dude trying to guillotine him, not the others throwing some fairly weak punches.

Quote from: Crafty_Dog
1:57 Fat woman approaches? Known? Unknown? If unknown, how should B handle her at this point?
 
 
Known, even if not an girlfriend/close ally. He doesn't seem to be wary of her at least.
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Maxx
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« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2009, 09:04:18 PM »

Here is a video I found of 7 against 1 and the 1 guy is winning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYlQIEMx11I
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Stickgrappler
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"...grappling happens. It just does." - Top Dog


« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2009, 11:44:20 AM »

woof all:

as suggested by Guro Crafty, i viewed the clip once this morning before i left for work and have some initial thoughts. will rewatch it when i get home. took me some time to register with youtube for some reason.

perhaps it's me being in the Family Man stage of life, if the odds are against me, and i'm alone, i look to run away. if it's just words, even if it's racial slurs, swallow my ego and get out of dodge. why take the risk? what is there to prove, especially if the odds are against you? even it's one on one, there are many variables/factors that may come into play later... hidden weapons, his friends show up later, legal aftermath, etc. i don't care if i'm a MMA fighter, a Dog Brother, an instructor, a grandmaster, a noob, an unmarried man with no kids, packed and armed up the wazzoo, etc... if it's just words, and you have a chance to escape/avoid, then do so. IMO, the single guy looked like he had a chance to leave the scene... instead his ego kicked in and he had to prove his manhood. i don't know the racial tension in that part of British Columbia... my cousins live in Vancouver BC, i will email them about this clip and ask. perhaps a member knows the area and already addressed this, i didn't read the thread yet nor watched the background clip yet... will read this thread after i post.

the 3 guys didn't flank the single guy... at one point, the 3rd guy shows up, not sure what he was doing... maybe parking the pickup truck... he should've flanked... the tunnel vision generally in these situations will not let the single guy pick up on flankers. one of the guys was wearing flip flops... unless you train TMA in barefeet and/or on concrete, if you are looking to go into action, don't wear flip flops. you see he lost one of them somewhere along the way from a kick or just running/walking.

the single guy actually did well enough with the multiple attackers vs 1... keeping mobile and circling, trying to get the guys all lined up so he has to only face one at a time

a few times the 3 guys swatted at the single guy... the single guy seemed to swat back... he dropped a guy with a punch, and shortly after that, the 2 guys pounced on him as the downed guy recovered and proceeding to pound on the single guy. perhaps the single guy should've stuck to lowline kicks to shins or something vs committing weight/posture to a punch.

later in the video, a car and a van pulls up... couldn't see if they went to call the LEO's or not. one of the drivers or passengers talks to the single guy... think he replied and was distracted, not sure if any of the 3 guys capitalized on this.

only recall towards the end of the clip, one or more of the 3 guys got into their pickup truck, and was about to close the passenger-side door, the single guy approaches that guy. single guy should've let them leave, get ready to remember details to describe to LEO's:  make of truck, license plates, what the 3 guys were wearing etc. but no, single guy approaches truck. who knows what the 3 guys have in the truck? baseball bat? knife? guns? rifles? beer bottles? gasoline and matches? etc. guy in truck could've tried to open the door to smack the single guy... don't remember if he did that or not.

that's all i remember.

edit:   after reading the thread, i gotta work on my memory lol @ me
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 12:19:11 PM by Stickgrappler » Logged

"A good stickgrappler has good stick skills, good grappling, and good stickgrappling and can keep track of all three simultaneously. This is a good trick and can be quite effective." - Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
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