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Author Topic: 2016 Presidential  (Read 96399 times)
DougMacG
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Posts: 8246


« Reply #1500 on: September 27, 2016, 05:51:34 PM »

Hillary wants her debate fact checked.  I'll take a shot at her assertions:

HRC:  We also, though, need to have a tax system that rewards work and not just financial transactions. And the kind of plan that Donald has put forth would be trickle-down economics all over again. In fact, it would be the most extreme version, the biggest tax cuts for the top percent of the people in this country than we’ve ever had.  I call it trumped-up trickle-down, because that’s exactly what it would be. That is not how we grow the economy.

   - This always goes unchecked.  It isn't "trickle down" if all rate cuts apply to everyone.  It is an interconnected economy, not a trickled down one.

Rating:  Straw Argument, Deception, and Lie.


HRC: "He really believes that the more you help wealthy people, the better off we’ll be and that everything will work out from there."

Still not true.  Rating:  Straw Argument, Deception, Lie and Repeating a Lie.


HRC: "I believe is the more we can do for the middle class, the more we can invest in you, your education, your skills, your future, the better we will be off and the better we’ll grow."

   - Government 'investment' is called spending, leads to debt, $20 trillion.

Rating:  Deception, Lie.


HRC: "Donald was one of the people who rooted for the housing crisis. He said, back in 2006, “Gee, I hope it does collapse, because then I can go in and buy some and make some money.” "

   - Housing was over-priced in 2006.  A real estate buyer benefits from lower prices.

Rating:  Punch not landed.


HRC:  "The last thing we need to do is to go back to the policies that failed us in the first place."

   - She and her group have been in power from before the crash all the way through history's slowest 'recovery'.

Rating:  Egg on Face.


HRC: "Independent experts have looked at what I’ve proposed and looked at what Donald’s proposed, and basically they’ve said this, that if his tax plan, which would blow up the debt by over $5 trillion and would in some instances disadvantage middle-class families compared to the wealthy, were to go into effect, we would lose 3.5 million jobs and maybe have another recession.  They’ve looked at my plans and they’ve said, OK, if we can do this, and I intend to get it done, we will have 10 million more new jobs, because we will be making investments where we can grow the economy. Take clean energy. Some country is going to be the clean- energy superpower of the 21st century."

   - There isn't a serious economic study that uses static analysis.  Government money into investments like Solydra that otherwise don't pay for themselves add no net new jobs.

Rating:  Denial of Science, Lie, Deception.
  

HRC:  "I would not add a penny to the debt."

Pay no attention to the previous record of same policies.

Rating:  Congenital Lie.  There was a column by that name.


HRC:  "What I have proposed would be paid for by raising taxes on the wealthy, because they have made all the gains in the economy. And I think it’s time that the wealthy and corporations paid their fair share to support this country."

   - That's exactly the argument made before Obama was elected.  These policies made it worse.

Rating:  Pathological Lie.


HRC:  "$4 billion tax benefit for your family."

   - You just said in the same debate that he pays NO federal income tax.

Rating:  Lie.


HRC: "Too many young African-American and Latino men ended up in jail for nonviolent offenses. And it’s just a fact that if you’re a young African-American man and you do the same thing as a young white man, you are more likely to be arrested, charged, convicted, and incarcerated.  So we’ve got to address the systemic racism in our criminal justice system. We cannot just say law and order. We have to say — we have to come forward with a plan that is going to divert people from the criminal justice system, deal with mandatory minimum sentences, which have put too many people away for too long for doing too little."

   - Mandatory sentencing was a feature of the Bill Clinton administration, as was the Defense of Marriage Act and repeal of Glass Steagal.

Rating:  Deflection, Deception, Lie.


HRC:  "He has really started his political activity based on this racist lie that our first black president was not an American citizen."

   - What is racial about birth?  And she started that political lie.

Rating:  Lying about your own Lie.


HRC:  "There was absolutely no evidence for it, but he persisted."

  - The evidence was that he was refusing to release his birth certificate for a job that has requirements regarding birth, also that his own publicist was promoting him as a Kenyan.  
Rating:  No one Left to Lie to.  There was a book by that name.  Yes, about her.


HRC:  "I voted for every sanction against Iran when I was in the Senate, but it wasn’t enough. So I spent a year-and-a-half putting together a coalition that included Russia and China to impose the toughest sanctions on Iran.   And we did drive them to the negotiating table. And my successor, John Kerry, and President Obama got a deal that put a lid on Iran’s nuclear program without firing a single shot. That’s diplomacy. That’s coalition-building. That’s working with other nations."

   - She is taking credit for constructing the sanctions regime that they abandoned, and is supporting the abandonment.  There is a "lid" on Iran’s nuclear program"

Rating:  She is a consistently contrary indicator between right and wrong on policy.

HRC:  "Let’s have paid family leave, earned sick days. Let’s be sure we have affordable child care and debt-free college.  How are we going to do it? We’re going to do it by having the wealthy pay their fair share and close the corporate loopholes."

   - You already ran out of other peoples' money, $20 trillion in the red and counting.

Rating of anyone who believes that:  Gullible.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 06:04:12 PM by DougMacG » Logged
DDF
Power User
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Posts: 494


« Reply #1501 on: Today at 12:04:36 AM »

Has Trump winning 55% to 45%.

http://time.com/4506217/presidential-debate-clinton-trump-survey/?xid=time_socialflow_facebook

"This question may well prove to be a big warning flag of serious cheating to come."

This was exactly my thought.  Is the election rigged?  Why wouldn't it be?  Who is going to do anything about it?
They want to forestall him from complaining about dirty tricks, rigging the vote, stuffing the ballot box, etc.  

This question may well prove to be a big warning flag of serious cheating to come.

Exactly my concern and an odd question. Trump was smart to just answer "yes," because in doing so, he is supporting law and order. Anything else would have left him open.

Been doing homework all day. Going to edit this with my notes in a few minutes.

Edit... not going to edit it. Any analysis of this at this moment is imprudent based on the fact that no one is going to change their minds. I was thinking Johnson this morning, then got to 5600 pages of TPP junk that I have to skim vs Trump's "stop and frisk" which I also don't support. Have to see what happens at the next debate.

There are just too many variables at the moment. Election fraud is indeed a danger and why the leftist media is attempting to claim that HRC is close in the polls. I doubt she is. Electronic voting leaves no hard proof, which is a point many have mentioned before the debate. When asked of supporting Clinton, I can only laugh.

With a potential of nearly two decades of liberal rule, would you support it, while they destroy every freedom you hold dear, especially if there is a reasonable doubt that they were elected fraudulently? GC just posted an article with the gun laws that have passed... Anyone that is 40 years of age or older, remembers the difference between their childhood and the litany of laws that exist now.

Support? Support what?
« Last Edit: Today at 12:45:21 AM by DDF » Logged

It's all a matter of perspective.
Crafty_Dog
Administrator
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Posts: 37770


« Reply #1502 on: Today at 12:11:42 AM »

On line polls are of limited value.
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DDF
Power User
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Posts: 494


« Reply #1503 on: Today at 12:25:10 AM »

On line polls are of limited value.

I agree. I was screen capturing data off of both candidates' pages last night, immediately after the debate had ended, from the top comments on their respective pages, with both publishing posts as soon as the debate had ended.

In 21 minutes, the top comment from Trump's page garnered 5950 likes in 21 minutes (283.333- endorsements of support per minute), with 394 replies.

In 18 minutes, the top comment from Clinton's page had generated 2087 likes (115.9444- endorsements of support per minute) OR 40% of the support Trump was enjoying based on the ratio, per minute. Clinton had 214 replies.

From the replies, we can also garner interest generated by either candidate. I know that is subject to several factors that may sway data (both are from English speaking pages, time zones, amount of households that have internet, and a lack of input from either Stein's or Johnson's pages). Even still, the reverse is also true... those that were awake, on the internet, and had just watched the debate, those are the results of what they had to say.

Interesting to note, is the correlation between Time's result of 55% pro Trump, and the casual data gathered by what I observed last night. More drastic are Youtube ratios which I have generally calculated at roughly 12 in 5 supporting Clinton. I should look into why that is.

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It's all a matter of perspective.
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