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Author Topic: No Trespassing  (Read 6181 times)
maija
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« on: June 19, 2010, 08:27:39 PM »

My house/yard is a big construction project at the moment, and though fenced is not completely secure as yet - though soon to be.
Anyway, long story short - found a homeless guy wandering around in the side yard, the 3rd such incident now - "Oh sorry, thought the property was abandoned"
Yah ......
No issues - joy of having a nice large canine companion, but it got me thinking of the psychology of protecting your home and environment (apart from the obvious high locked gates). My better half suggested pigs heads on stakes ... but I'm for a bit more subtlety personally! LOL
For instance, an old friend on mine, is ex-military and has collected military gear for many years. His neighbors say that the camo net in the front yard that he uses as a shade structure has kept the crime on their block at zero compared to the rest of the neighborhood.
I also started remembering some of the incredibly humorous no trespassing signs and bumper stickers I've seen, and thought you guys might have some suggestions to add.
My favorites: "No trespassing. Those found on the property after dark will be found on the property in the morning".
And for the bumper sticker: "Keep honking, I'm reloading".
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It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
G M
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« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2010, 08:36:00 PM »

There can be adverse legal consequences for such signage. "No trespassing" is best.

As I'm sure you already know, the homeless guy was looking for items to steal/casing your home for burglary and/or other crimes.
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maija
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« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2010, 09:28:25 AM »

Thanks GM. Yes, I know.
BTW, I've heard there are ramifications of having a 'Beware of Dog' sign - implication being the dog is dangerous or something .... Better to have "Dog in Yard' or something? Do you have any thoughts on that?
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It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
G M
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« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2010, 09:47:54 AM »

The civil aspects of dog related signs are a bit outside my knowledge base. Some advocate making it look like you have a large, aggressive dog, even if you do not, such as a mega sized dog bowl, a LARGE dog chain, a heavily chewed femur bone from a steer along with "beware of dog" signs.
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Kaju Dog
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organ donor


« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2010, 12:40:09 PM »

One of my favorites;  "I can make it to the fence in 3.4 seconds, CAN YOU?" 

with pic of your favorite pooch...  Mine is a rottie named Samson

My current No trespassing sign reads; "No Trespassing, Violators will be shot, survivors will be shot again"...   that one sits in the LR  window and can be seen as you get close to the front door.

 afro

HAPPY FATHERS DAY ALL  grin
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Jonobos
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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2010, 06:05:25 PM »

Quote
"No Trespassing, Violators will be shot, survivors will be shot again"

LOL!

If that isn't direct enough I don't know what is!
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2010, 03:41:32 PM »

All kidding aside I think a signs referring to having a dog are probably best.  Being that you already have a dog you can back up the implied message wink  I have found that homeless people and even low level criminals are usually deterred by such warnings.  Something else that may be useful would be a burglar alarm or even the sticker of an alarm company to deter low level burglars.  All the shooting related stickers I would avoid for possible legal repercussions and to not inspire some jerk looking for guns to steal.

Hope this helps,
Tony Torre
Miami Arnis Group
www.miamiarnisgroup.com
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maija
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« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2010, 09:33:45 AM »

Thanks for the input, Tony. The reason why I asked about the dog signs is I heard that if you have 'Beware of Dog' and it bites someone, you imply prior knowledge that your dog is 'dangerous' or something ridiculous. Around here they use "Dog in Yard" that implies nothing.  undecided
I agree that the gun signs could have the opposite effect of the one looked for ... but I am sad that humor is so risky nowadays ....
I will add that I used to know a guy that had a 'miss spent youth' who was completely unafraid of dogs and would break into peoples' houses with a dog inside if the dog looked like a pushover through the window ....
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It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
DougMacG
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« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2010, 01:02:34 PM »

Tony has it right IMO.  Humor is great but you may wish later that you hadn't made public postings about the pleasure you will take from harming intruders.

I think a 'beware of dog' sign is perfectly acceptable because you are taking a step to prevent harm to a potential intruding. (Where beware of reckless gun-toting homeowner for example  is more an admission of guilt.)   Beware of Dog is also a good sign instead of buying a dog.  Makes one think twice and maybe move on.  The 'no trespassing' sign helps law enforcement to take action against an unwanted person on the grounds.  (Inside the house that should go without saying!)

Besides the alarm system or security sign, lights set off by motion detectors I think are helpful.  Lights on timers help hide that you are gone, and an extra vehicle in front can create confusion.  Also a radio inside with talk can sound through the window very much like voices of people in the house.

(Personally I don't agree with the law that forced entry into a family home is merely a 'property crime'.)
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2010, 01:45:25 PM »

Maija,

Remember dogs are pack animals a couple or even a few go from possibly being a push over to a pack.  A friend of mine came home one day after work to find his dogs had cornered the mailman and kept him there all day.  These dogs are pathetic examples of canines individually.  Doug brought up some great points the no trespassing sign and the motion activated lights are excellent as are the timer controlled lights when you're not around.  I once saw a sign that read beware of rabid monkeys I think that would keep many out and would a biohazard sign grin

Tony Torre
Miami Arnis Group
www.miamianrisgroup.com
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Rarick
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2010, 07:48:23 AM »

NRA stickers applied to windows with camo net shade in the back yard.  Also pick a branch of service- army or marines are probably best, and have some stickers or memorabilia visible.  The motion activated lights are a good idea, a No tresspassing Sign is also a good idea.  A No trespassing with signs of a dog in the yard (one being present or not) is probably a good choice.  "your honor I had no trespassing posted, why should I need an additional dog sign?  The bowl and toys are obvious......."

Depending on where you are racking the slide on the shotgun, needed or not,can be useful intimidation, or qualify as "brandishing".  Might be good to know the difference.

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G M
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2010, 09:52:06 AM »

NRA/gun ownership indicators can also tell burglars that valuable firearms are to be found inside. Guns are one of the few things that actually go for more on the black market than retail.
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grayson
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2010, 11:25:33 AM »

Wow, isn't nice how we have to play the word game with signage on OUR OWN PROPERTY to protect ourselves from the scum lawyer and judge
who like to make the law abiding citizen appear as if he/she is the criminal. It's as if they rather WE become the statistic. The legal system is so wonderful. rolleyes
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prentice crawford
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2010, 10:54:07 PM »

Woof,
 The motion detector lights work well at night, and now they have some that are solar powered so you can put them up on out buildings or fences without running electric lines to them. There are also fake security cameras that are cheap and have wires that make them look like they're hooked up to power, that you can stick on top of a pole or hang on the side of a building, with the appropriate sign that states, property under video surveillance. Signs that say "National Police Association" or "Hug a Cop", "My Other Car Has Blue lights and a Siren", "My Dad's A Cop" probably work better than No Trespassing signs when nobody is around but they may also tempt vandals. cheesy You don't want to impersonate being a police officer but if someone gets the wrong idea then so be it. The timers to turn lights on and off are also good to make it look like someone is at home and a radio playing also gives the illusion someone is around. If you have friends that car pool, you could invite them to meet at your place and leave their cars so it looks like people are there during the day. Hope this helps.
                                                       P.C.
                                                    
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 11:41:50 PM by prentice crawford » Logged

Rarick
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« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2010, 05:14:13 AM »

I would rather live far enough out of town that SSS would work evil and that you would rarely have to use it grin
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G M
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« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2010, 10:35:01 AM »

Making your home look like someone that works in law enforcement lives there can bring more problems to you rather than reduce the threat of crime.

They key elements are securing the residence, both day and night. Make the place look occupied at all times. Good lighting, as mentioned before. Keep in mind that most residential burglaries happen during daylight hours.
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stilljames
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« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2010, 04:44:37 PM »

Most neighbors subconsciously filter out a man with a safety-vest, hard had, clipboard and a work truck who simply walks right up like he belongs.

Best defense is low key stuff.  Sturdy doors, llocks and windows.  Keep things nice but not eye-catching.   Vary your schedule.  Keep curtains closed and try not to let expensive things be visible from the street.  Take that enormous 52" LCD TV box straight to a dumpster instead of leaving it on a curb.  And keep everything possible insured.   If your number is up and you get a professional visit.. well, sometimes, you can do everything right and still get caught out.  It is just stuff.  Life goes on.
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G M
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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2010, 05:01:14 PM »

I'd agree that being low key is a good idea. You want to blend in with the neighborhood. If you look like Ft. Knox, you'll attract unwanted attention.
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Scurvy Dog
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« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2010, 08:10:04 PM »

***Warning, this post may offend some***

Having dinner last night with some friends we discussed a new No Trespassing sign that we'd like to employ here in Costa Rica.
It would simply say, "No Trespassing or I'll Shoot Your D**k Off".

Although it was meant to be humorous, we were trying to make the best of the worsening crime condition here. Those reading this may be wondering how that particular statement would come up in conversation?

Well, four days ago some criminals were breaking into a gringos house down the hill from us even though he was yelling at them through the door to go away and that he was armed. They kept coming and fearing for his life and that of his wife he opened fire through the door.

One escaped into the jungle with a wounded leg and is still being apprehended and the other is currently in critical condition in the hospital missing his testicles. He is not expected to make it.

I'm sure adrenaline played a big part in the wounds to the lower regions and not the torso but thankfully they are alright none the less.

Of course, we won't be making those signs but a little laughter does help to soften uneasy minds. This place is getting nuts...

One of these days I could write a book!

Tim







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maija
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« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2010, 11:01:17 PM »

I have to say that I'm not so worried about the house and the stuff in it, it's pretty secure. I'm just irritated that scumbags can walk off the street on to my property, take a sniff about and pilfer what they want. Valuable stuff is locked up, and we have a dog. It's just the disrespect I guess that irritates me, and the aggravation of having to go and tell bug eyed freaks to sling their hook. It's not a particularly bad neighborhood, but not great. Have to say though, even the fancier areas have problems with garages and back yards getting stuff stolen from them.
It's casual, opportunistic crime, and it would seem like signs would be a nice basic deterrent. Yes, locked gate and fence, that's coming, but just looking at ideas for the interim. I think the motion detector lights are a nice idea, though obviously have no effect in broad daylight ... I also heard that the solar powered ones are very weak. Anyone have any experience with them?
@ScurvyDog  - Nasty story ... what's up with the rising crime rate there? I have to say that your idea for a sign makes complete sense to me! Hope the guy who defended himself didn't get into trouble ... what is the law like for such cases?
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It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
prentice crawford
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« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2010, 11:14:33 PM »

Making your home look like someone that works in law enforcement lives there can bring more problems to you rather than reduce the threat of crime.

They key elements are securing the residence, both day and night. Make the place look occupied at all times. Good lighting, as mentioned before. Keep in mind that most residential burglaries happen during daylight hours.
Woof,
 Yeah, I guess that's why neighborhoods with cops that drive their cruisers home and have them parked in their driveways makes all the other neighbors mad because they attract so much crime to the area?  rolleyes My theory is that most crooks don't want anything to do with cops being around when they do their evil deeds and generally will go off to areas where that isn't going to be a problem.
 But good lighting, lights set on timers that go on and off giving the appearance of someone moving from room to room in a house, good locks on doors and windows, a T.V. or radio left on, watchful neighbors that will call the cops if they see someone hanging around, not leaving stuff out to tempt people to walk off with it, all of these things can help to tell the bad guy to go on to better/easier pickings somewhere else.
 And Maija, if your property looks like some construction is going on then a sign that said "Keep Out" not responsible for accidental electrocution, might keep them out of the yard. cheesy
                                       P.C.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 12:25:48 AM by prentice crawford » Logged

G M
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« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2010, 09:15:30 AM »

http://www.policeone.com/rural-law-enforcement/articles/2026720-Off-duty-in-rural-America/

Take-Home Squads
One could argue that having that squad in the driveway must be one heck of a crime deterrent. I would disagree and say that it is an open invitation for the local bad guy to come in and talk with you. At minimum it is an indicator of whether or not you are home or out working.

Can you see some potential problems here? If you’re out working, who is at your house? If you are home, where is the best place for somebody to find you in condition white?

If you are one of these “home office” officers, you have likely had a few people pay you a visit to ask a question or complain about a ticket/arrest. It’s not very likely that your local population understands that your “business hours” change from day to day depending on what shift you are working so it is possible that you will be running the lawn mower, working on the car, or playing with your kids when they stop by. This can create some interesting situations, and while most are relatively harmless we and our families should be prepared for one that is not.

Have you talked with your spouse and family about the “what if’s” that could arise because of your profession? What if an irate local bum shows up on the doorstep and decides to make an issue out of a past arrest? What if the situation becomes a use-of-force incident? Does your family know how to protect themselves? Do they know what should they do if you become involved in a use-of-force incident on your own front doorstep? What if your family becomes the target of retaliation? Think about these issues and make sure you have a family plan if trouble comes knocking on your door.
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Scurvy Dog
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« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2010, 09:26:21 AM »

@ScurvyDog  - Nasty story ... what's up with the rising crime rate there? I have to say that your idea for a sign makes complete sense to me! Hope the guy who defended himself didn't get into trouble ... what is the law like for such cases?

The police are calling it self defense and so the home owners are safe on this one. However, it's a risky proposition for the expat community at best. We basically pay for the police to be in our area as the government doesn't so they are a bit more sympathetic.

Crime is growing out of control here like it is in most other places due to the poor world economy. Tourism and all things associated with it are big business and its s-l-o-w right now. The other problem is the police are undertrained, underpaid and not funded. The judges don't enforce the laws so 95% of criminals go free. On top of that the prison (not plural) is 20% over capacity already.

I could go on but you get the point. We are returning to the US in December. The adventure for us will not continue, in CR that is. Living at home and walking around in a perpetual state of orange (not yellow) is taxing mentally and physically. 

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DougMacG
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« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2010, 11:31:45 AM »

The point about solar lights too dim is true.  The cheap ones will barely light a walkway and don't give the look of someone home.  You need more juice than that.  For anyone who wants to make the effort for an unwired outbuilding or driveway entrance, you can build a more powerful system pretty cheaply.  You can buy a small 12v 3 watt or 5 watt solar panel on ebay fairly cheap and make night power off of a deep cycle or older car battery with some charge left in it.  incandescent bulbs will drain the battery.  For 12v the ones with multiple LED are bright and efficient, or with a small inverter you can use 110v products like a timer or motion detector connected to more efficient CFL bulbs.  I like to leave a radio with talk on in a vacant rental house.  Along with some timers and lighting it makes it seem from outside the window or door very much like someone is in there-  even during the day.  I'm amazed at how often I fool myself with that when I come back in.  I haven't done this yet, but what I would like to hook up is motion detector activation to a recording of a fiercely barking dog to come on with the lights.  The motion detector lights typically come with 2 light sockets.  Put a bulb in one and a socket adapter outlet in the other and run a cord a little further to trigger something else, maybe another light and radio further away, up by the house.

At home, besides living in a crime free area with watchful neighbors, most effective for me is having multiple vehicles that I split usage with and move around quite a bit for various reasons along with varying schedules that was mentioned. The affect is that you never look in our driveway and assume no one is home.  Most people I'm sure don't have extra cars but maybe you know someone who wants one stored or maybe you keep the extra one in the garage to protect the vehicle when having it by the sidewalk or doorstep would better help to protect the house.   A stored car should be started and moved around regularly anyway which is perfect for this purpose.

The extra car trick backfired for me at one of my inner city houses.  They punched a hole through the bottom of the gas tank.  The next time I left a nice note on the dash saying that the gas tank was empty, and made sure it was.  Strategies in a war zone are different than strategies in a neighborhood.

Beyond the fake video camera idea I would like to go to a cheap real video camera saving onto the hard disk of an old computer and activated by the motion lights.  Maybe you could capture a license plate or mug shot of the offenders.

The first hand account from Costa Rica scares me.  No one should have to face a gun in their face unless you are the perp.  A friends young daughter finishing college is traveling there a lot and wanting to move there.

Knowing your premises was invaded is not a property crime to me.  Someone could have been home or come home during the invasion and startled them.  I would never assume someone with that kind of nerve is not likely to be violent.
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Scurvy Dog
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« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2010, 12:19:10 PM »


The first hand account from Costa Rica scares me.  No one should have to face a gun in their face unless you are the perp.  A friends young daughter finishing college is traveling there a lot and wanting to move there.

Knowing your premises was invaded is not a property crime to me.  Someone could have been home or come home during the invasion and startled them.  I would never assume someone with that kind of nerve is not likely to be violent.

Unfortunately crime in CR is the black secret kept under the rug. Most gringos that live/work down here are involved in real estate, home building, tourism or retail so to talk about it or make it known "hurts business". Very short sighted IMHO.

There are some very scary things going on down here and of course the gov't has now taken away the rights of most expats to own and carry firearms with more laws to come.

My plan was to open a martial arts and yoga center where I live but we will now be resorting to Plan B which is going to Colorado instead. I will be teaching self defense and home defense here over the next two months just because people really need it.

As far as the firearm pointed at me yesterday I was appalled by the tactics I saw employed on the beach yesterday. Or should I say, the lack of technique and tactics. I know they are under trained but holy cow! If the officer had stopped three steps short or gone three steps more the Uzi with a capacity for 600 rounds p/m would have not been pointed at them and my family who were only 10' behind in the field of fire. Three rules of firearms violated in a single move and he had the drop on them.

I know it's easy to arm chair quarterback but the examples just kept on coming. At one point one of the criminals got up and casually walked over to his car and reached through the window into the glove box. AFter a few seconds one of the officers stopped him but this was before the vehicle had been searched! Why was he free to get up and walk around in the first place? Why were the officers laughing and joking with them only to get serious when the call finally came in confirming they were indeed the armed criminals who had just robbed some tourists up the road 30 minutes sooner?  SO much more...

The irony is, I was going to teach some stuff to the police as well but trying to figure out which ones are good and which ones are on the take and are criminals as well is daunting. I can't not teach the bad ones for fear of retribution but morally speaking I can't show bad guys how to improve their skills either. So, none of them gets any help and it's a shame because some of them a really good guys.

Sorry to hijack this thread... I just need to vent with like minded people for a bit.  sad







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pappydog
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« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2010, 01:09:26 PM »

An old friend (Gringo) owned a little market down there. He apparently was a little cocky about being an American. Was warned by the locals. He had to get bodyguards. Eventually, he was attacked in his store, at least one of the bodyguards were killed and he was put in critical condition by men wielding machetes. He is back in San Diego. Fortunately, he is alive and will probably have to donate his store to the country of Costa Rica.

Pappy Dog
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Scurvy Dog
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« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2010, 01:50:51 PM »

An old friend (Gringo) owned a little market down there. He apparently was a little cocky about being an American. Was warned by the locals. He had to get bodyguards. Eventually, he was attacked in his store, at least one of the bodyguards were killed and he was put in critical condition by men wielding machetes. He is back in San Diego. Fortunately, he is alive and will probably have to donate his store to the country of Costa Rica.

Pappy Dog

I'm not surprised...

It's a shame though as most Ticos are good honest people.
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maija
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« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2010, 06:04:17 PM »

It's interesting that you talk of the 'dark secret'. I have friends who own beach property in Mexico, a traveller friendly fishing village, where it's the same demographic as you are describing of gringos owning guest houses and bars, and plenty ex pats hanging out. On more than one occasion there have been violent home invasions, one involving a friend of a friend. Lady is in her 60s, but still got beaten up real bad, and only escaped being killed by neighbors who shouted the alarm. She had to leave her house and all her belongings behind.
Like you said, the corruption is so bad that nothing was going to be done about it.
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It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
Rarick
Guest
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2010, 04:04:36 AM »

I see game cameras all over for 150$ or so.  Place a couple around the house maybe you'll get a picture of a face, or a license plate #.
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prentice crawford
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« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2010, 08:38:06 AM »

http://www.policeone.com/rural-law-enforcement/articles/2026720-Off-duty-in-rural-America/

Take-Home Squads
One could argue that having that squad in the driveway must be one heck of a crime deterrent. I would disagree and say that it is an open invitation for the local bad guy to come in and talk with you. At minimum it is an indicator of whether or not you are home or out working.

Can you see some potential problems here? If you’re out working, who is at your house? If you are home, where is the best place for somebody to find you in condition white?

If you are one of these “home office” officers, you have likely had a few people pay you a visit to ask a question or complain about a ticket/arrest. It’s not very likely that your local population understands that your “business hours” change from day to day depending on what shift you are working so it is possible that you will be running the lawn mower, working on the car, or playing with your kids when they stop by. This can create some interesting situations, and while most are relatively harmless we and our families should be prepared for one that is not.

Have you talked with your spouse and family about the “what if’s” that could arise because of your profession? What if an irate local bum shows up on the doorstep and decides to make an issue out of a past arrest? What if the situation becomes a use-of-force incident? Does your family know how to protect themselves? Do they know what should they do if you become involved in a use-of-force incident on your own front doorstep? What if your family becomes the target of retaliation? Think about these issues and make sure you have a family plan if trouble comes knocking on your door.
Woof,
 There are pros and cons to any program but I think the overall benefit is fairly well established with this one.

   www.theppsc.org/forums/archive/index.php?t-2417.html

    www.visaliatimesdelta.com/article/20100818/NEWS01/8180314/Visalia-Tulare-police-say-take-car-home-program-saves-money-helps-prevent-crime-in-residential-areas

                 P.C.

    
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