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Author Topic: US-China (& Japan, South China Sea-- Vietnam, Philippines, etc)  (Read 23966 times)
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #250 on: May 07, 2014, 03:10:02 PM »

"Discuss if you wish in the American Foreign Policy thread."
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G M
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« Reply #251 on: May 07, 2014, 04:34:02 PM »

http://news.yahoo.com/vietnam-chinese-ships-ram-vessels-near-oil-rig-134607409.html;_ylt=AwrBJR7GdmpT6SwAQMnQtDMD
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #252 on: May 09, 2014, 01:35:47 PM »

China Answers Obama
An 80-ship flotilla plants a Chinese oil rig in Vietnamese waters.

Updated May 8, 2014 3:17 p.m. ET

Less than a week after President Obama's Asian Reassurance Tour, Beijing offered its rejoinder, sending a flotilla of 80 military and civilian ships to install China's first oil rig in disputed South China Sea waters, well within Vietnam's 200-mile exclusive economic zone. When some 30 Vietnamese naval vessels demanded the rig's withdrawal on Sunday, China's ships responded by ramming several of the Vietnamese boats and injuring six sailors.

This skirmish hasn't escalated to gunfire or attempted boarding, but the two sides are still facing off at sea. "Vietnam has exercised restraint," said a senior Vietnamese commander Wednesday, "but if Chinese vessels continue ramming Vietnamese ships, we'll have to act out of self-defense." Beijing said Thursday it would negotiate only if Hanoi's ships leave the site. The Foreign Ministry says the $1 billion rig—located 225 miles south of mainland China and only 120 miles east of Vietnam—is "normal and legal."

The truth is that this is China's latest attempt to revise the East Asian status quo through intimidation and force. China claims sovereignty over some 90% of the 1.35-million-square-mile South China Sea, and it is staking that claim by flexing its muscle around the sea's outer reaches. Along the eastern edge, China seized Scarborough Shoal from the Philippines in 2012. Since March it has blockaded Philippine Marines on Second Thomas Shoal.

This week's oil standoff also wasn't begun on a whim. China developed the CNOOC 0883.HK -0.16% 981 rig so it would not depend on foreign companies to drill in contested waters. "Large deepwater drilling rigs are our mobile national territory," explained Wang Yilin, chairman of state-owned China National Offshore Oil Corporation, in 2012. The sea grab follows several years of gradually intensifying pressure—from Chinese tourist boats landing on disputed South China Sea islands, to Chinese fishing vessels cutting the acoustic cables of Vietnamese oil exploration ships.

As Chinese-Vietnamese relations have worsened, Hanoi has procured new military hardware—including Kilo-class submarines, guided-missile frigates, land-based antiship cruise missiles and jet fighters—and sought closer ties with India, Japan and the U.S. The Vietnamese and U.S. militaries held their first joint naval exercises in 2012, a year after a U.S. Navy ship called at Cam Ranh Bay for the first time since the Vietnam War.

So it goes across Asia—Chinese territorial revanchism is spurring arms purchases and defense cooperation among China's neighbors and with Washington. These are welcome developments, yet China continues on its aggressive course.

"It's fair to say both Vietnam and China have rights to claim sovereignty over the Paracels," said America's top Asia hand, Assistant Secretary of State Danny Russel, in Hanoi Thursday. "It is not for the U.S. to say which position is stronger. It's within the rights of the United States and the international community to call all parties to address the dispute in a peaceful way." China has heard such U.S. rhetoric many times, including as it grabbed Scarborough Shoal from Manila over three months in 2012. Beijing says it plans to drill for oil at least until Aug. 15.
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bigdog
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« Reply #253 on: May 19, 2014, 08:37:57 AM »

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-to-announce-first-criminal-charges-against-foreign-country-for-cyberspying/2014/05/19/586c9992-df45-11e3-810f-764fe508b82d_story.html?wpisrc=al_national

From the article:
The Justice Department is charging members of the Chinese military with conducting economic cyber-espionage against American companies, U.S. officials familiar with the case said Monday, marking the first time that the United States is leveling such criminal charges against a foreign country.
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DougMacG
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« Reply #254 on: May 19, 2014, 11:23:54 AM »

I would quite enthusiastically applaud them for this - if we were not guilty of the same thing(?).
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G M
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« Reply #255 on: May 19, 2014, 12:44:53 PM »

I doubt we are trying to steal technological secrets from China to hand off to US industry. Not yet anyway.
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DougMacG
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« Reply #256 on: May 19, 2014, 01:09:28 PM »

I doubt we are trying to steal technological secrets from China to hand off to US industry. Not yet anyway.

Agree.  I see the distinction.  I wonder if Angela Merkel and others complaining of US spying see it.
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G M
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« Reply #257 on: May 19, 2014, 01:56:44 PM »

I'm curious what the DOJ/administration expects to get from China. I doubt it will be a cascade of apologies.
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bigdog
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« Reply #258 on: May 19, 2014, 03:43:02 PM »

I doubt we are trying to steal technological secrets from China to hand off to US industry. Not yet anyway.

Agree.  I see the distinction.  I wonder if Angela Merkel and others complaining of US spying see it.

Rogers and Ruppersberger Call Chinese Indictment an “Important First Step”

House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman Mike Rogers and Ranking Member Dutch Ruppersberger praised the indictment by a U.S. Grand Jury in the Western District of Pennsylvania of five Chinese military hackers for computer hacking and economic espionage directed at six American companies.

“These charges are an important first step, both in terms of bringing these five individuals to justice, as well as holding the Chinese government accountable for its campaign of cyber economic espionage against American companies. This is just the tip of the iceberg -- there are thousands of People’s Liberation Army (PLA) hackers working every day, at the behest of the Chinese government, to steal American trade secrets and the jobs that result from our innovation.   We must hold Beijing accountable and pressure the Chinese government to stop manipulating the free market through its use of cyber economic espionage. While every nation collects information to protect itself, it is unacceptable for any nation to steal intellectual property simply to get rich at other nations’ expense. ”
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G M
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« Reply #259 on: May 19, 2014, 04:28:32 PM »

China is hardly alone in doing this. France is one of the bigger offenders in economic espionage targeting American firms, iirc.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #260 on: May 20, 2014, 12:58:18 AM »

FWIW if I remember correctly, either today or yesterday Krauthammer saw this as empty posturing, though I must say I am intrigued.  Apparently the "Wang Dong 5" (one of them has the name "Wang Dong" LOL ) now will be subject to extradition if they go to any country with which we have an extradition treaty?  Of course being Team Obama, there is always always a goodly chance that this is some fg illusion, but  As I say, for the moment I am intrigued.

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G M
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« Reply #261 on: May 20, 2014, 02:34:06 AM »

Unless it comes up on the golf course, do you think the president has any clue about this?
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G M
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« Reply #262 on: May 20, 2014, 03:15:20 AM »

http://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1515858/us-charges-chinese-military-cyber-spying
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #263 on: May 20, 2014, 10:36:36 AM »

Well, that is not necessarily a bad sign  cheesy

Anyway, let's continue all conversation on the Wang Dong 5 affair on the Cyberwar thread.  Thank you.
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G M
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« Reply #264 on: May 20, 2014, 11:05:54 AM »

http://www.ibtimes.com/china-russia-currency-agreement-further-threatens-us-dollar-248338

Obama has been relentless in destroying the dollar, so maybe this is an olive branch?
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #265 on: May 31, 2014, 09:26:29 AM »


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/31/world/asia/us-sway-in-asia-is-imperiled-as-china-challenges-alliances.html?emc=edit_th_20140531&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=49641193&_r=0
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #266 on: June 02, 2014, 10:38:44 AM »



Discord in Shangri-La
China's attempt at Asian dominance meets resistance.
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Updated June 1, 2014 5:22 p.m. ET

The Shangri-La Dialogue held annually in Singapore has become Asia's premier forum for sniping about regional security, and the snark gets most of the headlines. But this weekend included more substance. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe pledged Japan would play an "even greater and more proactive role" with stronger defense ties to Southeast Asia, including an offer of coastal patrol boats. And U.S. Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel gave a more complete military accounting of the American "pivot" to Asia than we've previously heard.

The justification for both agendas was clear: Beijing has destabilized the region with its attempts to use military coercion to change the status quo in the East and South China seas. That didn't go down well with Chinese officials. Lt. Gen. Wang Guanzhong called the two speeches "simply unimaginable" and a "provocative action against China."

The most important audience at Shangri-La was the Southeast Asian contingent, representing smaller nations that will have to decide whether to stand up to China or make a separate peace. Diplomats told us they were eager for signals that the U.S. will stay committed to the security of East Asia despite China's growing military might.

Mr. Hagel had the additional challenge of following President Obama's foreign policy manifesto last week at West Point, in which the Asia pivot was conspicuously AWOL. One participant asked the Defense Secretary why Mr. Obama hasn't explained the pivot to the American public with the same enthusiasm it is sold in Asia. That leaves Asians wondering if the policy has strong enough support to survive a crisis, especially as the defense budget shrinks and other trouble spots emerge.
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Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe gives the keynote address on the first day of The International Institute for Strategic Studies 13th Asia Security Summit in Singapore May 30. European Pressphoto Agency

More doubts arise from the way that Messrs. Obama and Hagel try to make nice with Beijing by holding out the prospect of finding a "new model of great-power relations." That is Communist Party General Secretary Xi Jinping's formulation, and many in Asia believe it is code for pushing the U.S. out of the region so it can no longer play the role of balancer.

The Obama Administration hasn't endorsed Mr. Xi's concept. But it's hard to shake the impression that the U.S. is playing catch-up after a sea change in Chinese attitudes around 2009. U.S.-China relations used to be based on respect for each other's "core interests," which remained stable. Then over the past five years Beijing redefined its core interests to include the disputed islands in the South China Sea. Virtually every Southeast Asian nation is under pressure to accommodate China's new territorial ambitions.

The rhetoric from Chinese officers in Singapore only reinforced fears that Beijing is on a collision course with the U.S. They accused the U.S. and Japan of using coercion and acting hegemonically, when everyone else in region says that describes Chinese behavior. While this is unlikely to convince Southeast Asians worried by Chinese bullying, it is worrying that self-deceptive nationalism is on the rise in China.

Mr. Abe's speech stressed the importance of international law to resolve or at least manage disputes. China's reluctance to play by those rules suggests it is not a status quo power, but instead wants to create a new Asia-Pacific order that it can dominate. Beijing's bid to heighten minor territorial disputes in which the U.S. has little to gain and much to lose makes sense as a way to drive a wedge between Washington and its allies.

Such disputes are unlikely to be resolved by dialogue, but confabs like Shangri-La offer clues to whether Beijing's strategy is working. So far Asia's Pax Americana has held together, but there are more tests ahead and Washington will have to raise its game.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #267 on: June 19, 2014, 09:27:17 AM »

Roaring on the Seas
China’s Power Grab Is Alarming

By THE EDITORIAL BOARDJUNE 18, 2014

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Few aspects of China’s dynamic emergence as a global power have generated as much insecurity and danger in its neighborhood as its mounting campaign to control the South China Sea, a vital waterway for international commerce. On Wednesday, at a high-level meeting in Hanoi, China’s top diplomat scolded his Vietnamese hosts for complaining about an oil rig that Beijing planted in early May in waters that Vietnam claims, as its own.

The sharp back-and-forth represented one of the lowest points in relations between the two countries since a brief territorial war in 1979, and it added to worries in Washington and elsewhere about Beijing’s continued bullying in energy-rich waters that not only Vietnam but other small Asian nations lay claim to.

In addition to installing the rig, Beijing’s efforts to assert sovereignty over the many specks of rock dotting the South China Sea now includes a novel twist: the piling of sand on isolated reefs and shoals to create what amount to new islands in the Spratly archipelago.

Vietnam, the Philippines and other Southeast Asian nations that also claim sovereignty in the Spratlys have watched this island-building with growing alarm, but despite their protests — and a strongly worded statement last month by Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel condemning China’s “destabilizing, unilateral actions” in the South China Sea — Beijing is showing no intention of changing its ways.

The Spratly Islands are uninhabited and of no economic value in themselves. But the archipelago covers rich fishing grounds and is believed to harbor large oil and gas reserves, and China could claim an exclusive economic zone within 200 nautical miles of each of the three or four islands it is creating. The new islands, projected to reach 20 to 40 acres in area, would also serve the projection of Chinese military power by providing bases for surveillance and resupply.



China insists that the Spratlys, Paracels and other islands have always belonged to China. But Vietnam also claims sovereignty, and parts of them are claimed by the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei. In 2002, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations and China signed a Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea, agreeing to resolve territorial disputes “without resorting to the threat or use of force.” That declaration is not legally binding, and China has argued that Vietnam and the Philippines have already developed some facilities in the islands, though without adding acreage.

The real problem, in any case, is not the muddled question of sovereignty, but the way China appears to believe that its expanding military and economic power entitle it to a maximalist stance in territorial disputes. Certainly the smaller nations abutting the South China Sea are no match for China in a fight, but the fear and anger that China’s aggressive actions have generated among its maritime neighbors, and the tensions they have raised with Washington, hardly seem to be in Beijing’s interest, or in keeping with the image China’s president, Xi Jinping, tried to project when he said in Paris in March that “the lion that is China has awoken, but it is a peaceful, amiable and civilized lion.”

That is not the lion now roaring over the waters of the South China Sea, threatening the stability and security that have benefited, above all, China. That is all the more reason for Beijing to heed the 2002 declaration’s call for self-restraint in activities that would complicate disputes or disturb the peace.
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G M
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« Reply #268 on: June 19, 2014, 09:32:34 AM »

I was promised a new era of peace when that stupid cowboy Bush left office. What happened?  shocked
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bigdog
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« Reply #269 on: June 23, 2014, 04:38:51 PM »

Related to Crafty's post of 6/19:

http://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2014/06/23/why-is-china-building-artificial-islands/

From the article:

The island-building has China’s neighbors alarmed and fighting back. Since April, the Philippines has filed numerous protests to China against land reclamation at two reefs and criticized the movements of Chinese ships they claim are engaged in island-building at two other sites. The Philippine Government has argued at an international tribunal that China occupies only rocks, reefs, and artificial islands — not true islands that would qualify for a 200-nautical mile exclusive economic zone.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #270 on: July 13, 2014, 11:31:45 AM »

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/13/opinion/sunday/vietnams-overdue-alliance-with-america.html?emc=edit_th_20140713&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=49641193
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