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Author Topic: The Politics of Health Care  (Read 333520 times)
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #1500 on: December 17, 2016, 01:29:15 PM »

An interesting articulation of the problem.  I will need to think more on this:

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ccp
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« Reply #1501 on: January 04, 2017, 07:05:31 AM »

We all want world class health care.  And at the same time we want someone else to pay for it.

There appears no way to get around the fact that to pay for pre existing conditions all of us will have to pay.  Hence reason for the "mandate"

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/443502/republicans-obamacare-repeal-plan-preexisting-coverage-problem
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 10:36:29 AM by Crafty_Dog » Logged
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #1502 on: January 04, 2017, 10:36:01 AM »

Good article.

The final paragraphs get to what I have been saying here for a very long time.  Prices need to be knowable.

I would like to explore the notion that prices need to be the same for everyone, be they insured or uninsured.

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G M
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« Reply #1503 on: January 04, 2017, 03:50:02 PM »

Good article.

The final paragraphs get to what I have been saying here for a very long time.  Prices need to be knowable.

I would like to explore the notion that prices need to be the same for everyone, be they insured or uninsured.



If I as the seller of a good or service decide to set the price differently for different customers, who is to tell me otherwise?

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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #1504 on: January 04, 2017, 09:11:26 PM »

A fair question, but let me bounce it back at you:

As a customer, how would you feel if the supermarket charged you more for a given food item than someone else?
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #1505 on: January 04, 2017, 09:24:08 PM »

How To Repeal ObamaCare
By DICK MORRIS
Published on DickMorris.com on January 4, 2017
A recent column by Heather R. Higgins and Phil Kerpen really points the way to how to get rid of this obnoxious program.  Their ideas are similar to ones I have ventured in this space.

Zero fund the fines for failure to buy insurance or offer it to one's workers.  No need to repeal it which would take 60 votes.  Just zero out the penalty and leave the "fine" on the books to rot away.  Zero fund the fines that penalize people for buying healthcare plans that are not as extensive or expensive as the bureaucrats want.  Let folks buy what they want -- or nothing at all -- and let them keep, or revert if they can, to their old policies.  Any state approved plan should be OK under ObamaCare.

Keep the subsidies in place but with less coverage and lower premiums, the subsidies will drop.

Keep coverage of pre-existing conditions and the prohibition against terminating a plan or raising premiums if people become ill.

And then bring under Medicare -- or some other government subsidy -- everyone whose illness is so bad and chronic that they can't meet their needs through insurance.

But Higgins and Kerpen add a new wrinkle -- they ask that Trump rescind the Obama Administration ruling exempting members of Congress and their staffs from ObamaCare requirements.  In practice, this means cutting their premium subsidies that currently pay for up to three-quarters of the cost.  As Higgins and Kerpen point out, "there is nothing as motivating as skin in the game."  By making members and staffers on Capitol Hill pay for more of their insurance, you can bet a sharp reduction of cost will be soon coming.

Republicans can only pass bills that come under the reconciliation procedure that only requires a simple majority in the Senate.  The parliamentarian decides what is kosher for reconciliation and what is an overreach.  But Republicans should feel free to override the parliamentarian's orders if they need to do so.

Don't let the Republicans sell the idea that a full repeal has to wait for years while a meaningless resolution signaling an intention to repeal takes effect.  This dodge and evasion would leave millions of people with plans they can't afford or deductibles that bar access to services. 

By a combination of executive orders and legislation that would not require 60 votes (because it is passed under reconciliation), get rid of this law now!
 
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G M
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« Reply #1506 on: January 04, 2017, 10:17:07 PM »

A fair question, but let me bounce it back at you:

As a customer, how would you feel if the supermarket charged you more for a given food item than someone else?


Can I go to another supermarket?
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #1507 on: January 04, 2017, 11:57:06 PM »

In this case of health care, thanks to government meddling no you can't.
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DougMacG
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« Reply #1508 on: January 05, 2017, 01:11:49 AM »

GM:  If I as the seller of a good or service decide to set the price differently for different customers, who is to tell me otherwise?


I believe the criteria for determining legal discrimination is 'rational basis'.  

If the provider can collect sooner or with greater certainty, say with cash or guaranteed payment, the price might be lower.  There still can be prices published, easy to access that can also list available discounts and surcharges.

Yesterday I had the vocation of 'medical coding' explained to me.  CCP likely knows more.  The medical coder goes through the doctor's notes and writes down the codes and from that the computer bills it out - based on the doctor's handwriting!

If the computer knows the codes and all the rates, why can't the consumer?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CCP:
We all want world class health care.  And at the same time we want someone else to pay for it.
There appears no way to get around the fact that to pay for pre existing conditions all of us will have to pay.  Hence reason for the "mandate".



This question seems to be stumping everyone.  It seems to me that to qualify for the pre-existing conditions benefit you have to do a few things, sign up for coverage, pay extra, keep coverage as long as you have income, etc.  If it is subsidized, that subsidy should come out of general revenues and not drive up the rates for others making healthcare costs further out of reach for more and more people.

The federal budget already spends 1 trillion a year on healthcare.  We don't need to instantly or ever hit a zero number.  We can subsidize some healthcare and some people will still get healthcare for free.  The point of reform is to get more and more people, hundreds of millions of them, to be choosing and paying for their own private sector healthcare and for the government to be paying for less and less of it, at least as a proportion of the economy.  Within that privatization movement, the government can require better and better disclosure on services and prices, IMHO.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #1509 on: January 05, 2017, 08:21:53 AM »

How do we answer the charts and attendant assertions herein?

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-obamacare-charts-20170104-story.html
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DougMacG
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« Reply #1510 on: January 05, 2017, 11:50:05 AM »

How do we answer the charts and attendant assertions herein?

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-obamacare-charts-20170104-story.html

Good question and we can add to this with data but the simple answer is that the piece is deceptive by its omissions.  For example my plan was lost due to Obamacare.  I am switching doctors a second and third time due to Obamacare.  My cost has roughly doubled each year due to Obamacare.  The plan I choose to be on is illegal due to Obamacare.  I went from self-sufficient to subsidized due to Obamacare.  I am a ward of the state and disgusted by the thought of it.  (Yet I pay more than 100% of my take home income in taxes.)  Government subsidized healthcare is a concern and an extremely high marginal tax rate that faces each low to mid-income worker wishing to increase their income.  In other words, it keeps poor people poor, cripples the growth in the economy, and Democrats love that? Converting to subsidy is not lowering the cost.  On their charts I count as 'insured' and presumably satisfied with Obamacare - because I signed up for a lousy policy that has paid none of my actual expenses as opposed to breaking the law and paying penalties in addition to the cost of self-paid, over-priced healthcare.  

The last article published in Harrisburg (the political center of) Pennsylvania on healthcare before the election was that premiums are going up another 33% per year, in addition to all the other increases we had while Obama and Democrats were losing the House, Senate, state Houses and Governorships largely due to government over-reach and Obamacare.  Republicans hadn't carried PA (or MI or WI) in a Presidential election since Reagan's 49 state win in 1984.  Trump carried Pennsylvania by a greater margin, 67,000 votes, than Hillary had in NH, MN, NV and ME.  And it wasn't because of his high approvals!  People hate Obamacare and all it symbolizes in our government-run lives.  Club for Growth Republican Pat Toomey won reelection in (formerly) blue PA, by a wider margin than Trump.  Conservative Marco Rubio won Florida by eight times the margin of Trump, a combined margin of well over 2 million in a swing state over the nearest Democrat in 2 races since Obamacare.  Democrats lost 90% of their Presidential margin in MN in 8 years from 2008 to 2016.

The insurance companies failed and are pulling out of states and markets.  The risk corridors failed.  People are given fewer and fewer choices, less competition.  The system is broken.  It was broken before Obamacare.  Obamacare was sold on lies, rammed down our throats and made things worse.  If the charts don't show that, it's time for new and better charts.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 12:04:20 PM by DougMacG » Logged
G M
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« Reply #1511 on: January 05, 2017, 12:04:26 PM »

I stopped paying for health insurance and broke out my Tribal ID card and went to the local tribal health clinic. The prescription I used to pay 30 bucks a month for now costs one dollar.

Indians are exempted from Obamacare!
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #1512 on: January 05, 2017, 01:48:33 PM »

This is POTH, but it makes clear the wisdom of Trump's tweets of yesterday about making sure the Dems own the disaster.  At the moment it looks like the Reps are about to step in to take the blame.  Stupid party once again?

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/04/us/affordable-care-act-congress-repeal-plan.html?emc=edit_th_20170105&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=49641193
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ccp
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« Reply #1513 on: January 13, 2017, 07:54:21 AM »

I get this stuff in the mail and while I agree health care has needed changes I don't agree with the government taking over all of it which the ACA was to be the first step in that direction:

https://www.acponline.org/advocacy/acp-advocate/issue/article/718592
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ccp
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« Reply #1514 on: January 16, 2017, 09:07:10 AM »

Just as liberal as the rest of academia.   In medical journals , other non medical magazines, Smithsonian, National Geographic they are all being overwhelmed with agenda driven liberals.   I quit my NEJM subscription some years ago for this reason.  Any moe Nat Geo stuff like last months ( *cover to cover* - not an article of even 2 but the entire magainze in my face diatribe on LBGTQ and 40 other letters) and that will be cancelled as well. 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/443876/public-health-crisis-gun-violence-debunked
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ccp
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« Reply #1515 on: January 17, 2017, 09:27:16 AM »

But this is probably right:
https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/01/gop-plan-to-dupe-members-into-keeping-obamacare/
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ccp
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« Reply #1516 on: January 27, 2017, 04:31:09 PM »

https://www.acponline.org/advocacy/acp-advocate/issue/article/718907
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #1517 on: January 27, 2017, 07:05:57 PM »

One facet of the dynamic of knowable prices that I have been talking about here for quite some time:

http://time.com/4649914/why-the-doctor-takes-only-cash/
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DDF
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« Reply #1518 on: January 27, 2017, 08:37:48 PM »

I stopped paying for health insurance and broke out my Tribal ID card and went to the local tribal health clinic. The prescription I used to pay 30 bucks a month for now costs one dollar.

Indians are exempted from Obamacare!

I have never paid a dime and refuse to.

I don't know how true it is, but I read today, that the Don just signed an executive order, eliminating the IRS fines for not purchasing that polished t.rd.

EDIT: Yep... he's only signed one order thus far, but here it is....

"Sec. 2. To the maximum extent permitted by law, the Secretary of Health
and Human Services (Secretary) and the heads of all other executive departments
and agencies (agencies) with authorities and responsibilities under
the Act shall exercise all authority and discretion available to them to
waive, defer, grant exemptions from, or delay the implementation of any
provision or requirement of the Act that would impose a fiscal burden

on any State or a cost, fee, tax, penalty, or regulatory burden on individuals,
families, healthcare providers, health insurers, patients, recipients of
healthcare services, purchasers of health insurance, or makers of medical
devices, products, or medications. "

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2017-01-24/pdf/2017-01799.pdf
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 08:43:01 PM by DDF » Logged

It's all a matter of perspective.
ccp
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« Reply #1519 on: January 28, 2017, 11:26:57 AM »

https://www.dentaloptimizer.com/dental-cost-calculator/

Dentists mostly don't accept insurance except for minor things like cleanings and a few other things.

It is interesting to see the range of prices.  And the huge differences between states.  Of course like anything else price does not always guarantee quality.  Paying less does not mean one would get less and paying more does not mean it is worth the extra amount.

As Mark John Geragos stated on cable news some years back something to the effect, "being successful in law is all sales".

Medicine is now that way.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 11:56:42 AM by Crafty_Dog » Logged
ccp
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« Reply #1520 on: February 07, 2017, 10:48:49 AM »

More medical organizations getting into raw politics that in my view they should stay out of.  Wow *2* residents who are members are inconvenienced by Trump's travel ban.  Thus it is an infringement on their rights and religion yada yada.  The travesty and the inhumanity of it.   rolleyes

(And next will be the comparisons to Nazi Germany.)

https://www.acponline.org/acp-newsroom/acp-comprehensive-statement-us-immigration-policy

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ccp
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« Reply #1521 on: February 08, 2017, 04:13:54 PM »

I don't disagree to take more time.  The AHA took decades to formulate.  Replacing it with something that works better is no cinch.  For sure no matter what any one comes up with will have some body some where bitching about it.

https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/08/white-house-objects-to-drudge-criticism-gop-needs-time-to-replace-mammoth-obamacare/
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #1522 on: February 10, 2017, 07:51:37 AM »

The GOP’s Health-Care Offensive
A new coalition aims to pitch Republicans’ ObamaCare overhaul to the wider public.
Photo: Getty Images
By Kimberley A. Strassel
Updated Feb. 9, 2017 7:45 p.m. ET
149 COMMENTS

When Dave Hoppe recalls his first big health-care fight, one memory stands out. It was the summer of 1994, and Sen. George Mitchell, the Democratic majority leader, had canceled August recess to force a debate over his party’s health-care monster: HillaryCare.

Senators weren’t happy about losing their break, remembers Mr. Hoppe, who at the time was an aide. “And yet, Republican senators were lining up in the cloakroom; they couldn’t wait to get to the floor,” he says. “They knew this issue. They’d studied it. They were better informed than Democrats about HillaryCare. There was such an esprit de corps. It was energizing.”

Twenty-three years later, Mr. Hoppe’s mission is to re-create that energy—only this time for a Republican Party that wants to pass a health-care bill, not stop one. He is helping to assemble a sweeping new alliance—underground until now—called One Nation Health. This “inside-out” coalition—a fast-growing collection of elected officials, staffers, grass-roots groups, think tanks, trade associations, donors and corporations—will serve as the GOP’s voice for selling the country on a “replace/repair” plan for ObamaCare.

One Nation Health is the brainchild of another veteran of the policy wars: David Wilson, the CEO of a Midwestern company called Asset Health. An advocate for individual health empowerment, Mr. Wilson has been in the arena since the Reagan days, and has recently worked on the leading conservative blueprints for reform.

   
Mr. Wilson grew concerned after last fall’s election that Republicans weren’t coordinating to explain what underpinned their ideas. “The right-of-center approach has a set of core principles—with regards to greater access, benefits, choices, health savings, responsibility, rewards to all Americans,” he says. “It is a unifying concept, and one [that] people can understand.”

One of his first calls was to an old friend, Mr. Hoppe, a respected D.C. fixture, both off Capitol Hill (as a consultant) and on (most recently as chief of staff to Paul Ryan). Mr. Hoppe was also concerned by GOP inaction, especially given the depth of determination on the left to thwart reform.

Mr. Hoppe had watched as powerful liberal groups, such as Families USA, launched a save-ObamaCare coalition within 24 hours of the 2016 election. He had seen Democrats begin a full-throated scare campaign about the risks of ending the health law. He had heard that deep-pocketed donors were committing to fund a massive PR effort. He had even witnessed President Obama sojourn to Capitol Hill to exhort Democrats to do whatever necessary to defend his signature law. Mr. Hoppe knew that the right needed its own campaign, and he agreed to help Mr. Wilson set up One Nation Health.

The umbrella group isn’t a policy shop. It isn’t a vehicle to push one GOP health plan over another. And it isn’t a lobbying outfit intended to corral votes in a legislative debate.

Instead, One Nation Health is a clearinghouse, a place for conservatives to meet, share notes, craft messages for the public, and unite on talking points. It will facilitate progress between Congress and the White House. The model was used successfully in 1993-94 by former Sens. Phil Gramm and Paul Coverdell in the fight against HillaryCare, leading to moments, like the Harry and Louise ads, that tipped the scale.

Mr. Hoppe spends every day on calls, and he held the group’s first big meeting two weeks ago. The coalition includes everyone from health policy gurus like the American Enterprise Institute’s James Capretta and the Heritage Foundation’s Bob Moffit to advocacy groups like the American Action Network, which is already running $1 million worth of TV ads, in 15 House districts, arguing for an ObamaCare replacement. Congressional leadership is on board. Rep. Kevin Brady, chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, addressed the group’s inaugural session. Mr. Hoppe says people are joining so fast that his biweekly conference calls are ballooning.

What they all understand: “We’ve got to explain to Americans that the end of ObamaCare doesn’t mean going back to the old system,” Mr. Hoppe says. “It’s about creating a whole new, better system.” That message might help buy Republicans some time to get a reform in place.

Another thing One Nation Health is: an experiment. The right is great at opposing things. It isn’t so great at unifying in support of ideas. Can the GOP flip the HillaryCare model on its head? The One Nation Health umbrella is a first big attempt to answer that question. The hope is that the very act of focusing conservatives on shared themes will remind them how much they have in common. If it works, it could be a model for other big reform efforts.

If it fails, Mr. Hoppe doesn’t like to consider the consequences. “Not everyone is going to get what they want in any reform effort,” he says. “But we’re here to remind people that this is an opportunity of a generation. And if we aren’t successful now, it’ll be generations before we get another shot.”

Write to kim@wsj.com.
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ccp
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« Reply #1523 on: February 16, 2017, 10:32:52 AM »

"Hate is both deadly and contagious. Now is the time to engage the medical profession in eradicating it."

Those who are intolerant are medically ill.  I suppose this is aimed at the deplorable people who are "intolerant":

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2601506
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G M
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« Reply #1524 on: February 16, 2017, 04:18:46 PM »

"Hate is both deadly and contagious. Now is the time to engage the medical profession in eradicating it."

Those who are intolerant are medically ill.  I suppose this is aimed at the deplorable people who are "intolerant":

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2601506

The Soviet Union did a lot of the pioneering work on using mental health facilities for treating counterrevolutionary badthink.
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ccp
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« Reply #1525 on: February 16, 2017, 06:41:12 PM »

As a doctor I resent colleagues suggesting I use my position to enforce liberal propaganda

And the LEFT has the nerve to tell us we are closed minded.

All the while how they are recruiting armies of propagandists who are telling us how to think speak and behave and conform to their ideals.
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G M
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« Reply #1526 on: February 16, 2017, 09:44:34 PM »

"Hate is both deadly and contagious. Now is the time to engage the medical profession in eradicating it."

Those who are intolerant are medically ill.  I suppose this is aimed at the deplorable people who are "intolerant":

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2601506

The Soviet Union did a lot of the pioneering work on using mental health facilities for treating counterrevolutionary badthink.

http://jaapl.org/content/jaapl/30/1/136.full.pdf

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