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Author Topic: The Straight Blast  (Read 7685 times)
Crafty_Dog
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« on: March 19, 2011, 08:09:40 AM »

Woof All:

Recently I had someone ask me what I thought of the Straight Blast and in that I have been doing some thinking on this recently  wink it occurred to me to put the question up here.

We have the Wing Chun SB; we have the JKD SB, and we have the Boxing Blast. 

Analyze/assess/comment?

TAC,
CD
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G M
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2011, 10:17:18 AM »

This thread is worthless without pics/video.  wink
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prentice crawford
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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2011, 05:13:50 PM »

Woof,
 The blast is like jumping on someone, it works better if they are already dazed and confused. cheesy
                              P.C.
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G M
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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2011, 05:16:00 PM »

Any technique is better when your opponent is dazed and confused. Like when I used to bounce, fighting drunks made me feel like Neo.   evil
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prentice crawford
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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2011, 05:19:51 PM »

Woof GM,
 Perfect analogy. grin
      P.C.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 04:37:52 PM by prentice crawford » Logged

Stickgrappler
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"...grappling happens. It just does." - Top Dog


« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2011, 05:20:31 PM »


Vitor Belfort boxing blasting Wanderlei Silva



EDIT:  my thanks to the unknown gif maker and to the host of the pic.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 02:00:23 PM by Stickgrappler » Logged

"A good stickgrappler has good stick skills, good grappling, and good stickgrappling and can keep track of all three simultaneously. This is a good trick and can be quite effective." - Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
prentice crawford
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« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2011, 05:25:50 PM »

Woof Stickgrappler,
 Whoa! That's a good one. cool
               P.C.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2011, 06:03:15 PM »

I trained with Paul Vunak from 1983-86:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43IPDQkmsxU
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G M
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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2011, 06:18:56 PM »



Very cool.



I am dying to make a smartass comments about the 80's clothes/hair, but will refrain out of self-preservation.
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Guard Dog
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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2011, 07:44:16 PM »

IMHO & experience,

Angular footwork & false lead jab work WONDERS countering straight blasts. 
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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
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Bob Burgee
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« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2011, 10:15:41 PM »



I still own this tape Guro Crafty  grin
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Bob Burgee.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2011, 10:47:03 PM »

Me too. smiley
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Stickgrappler
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« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2011, 09:55:00 AM »

I should try to convert my vhs copy to dvd lol

-----------

Sadly, in the upper echelons of MMA, namely the UFC, still see fighters back up straight instead of off at an angle... one of the earliest examples was the gif I posted of Belfort vs W. Silva.
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"A good stickgrappler has good stick skills, good grappling, and good stickgrappling and can keep track of all three simultaneously. This is a good trick and can be quite effective." - Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2011, 10:08:01 AM »

When a fighter as fast and powerful as young Belfort brings a then-relatively-unseen technique like the boxing blast, I can understand that Silva would get put on his heels.

As far as the Panther VHS vidoes of Vunak (wherein I appear) go SG, to the best of my knowledge they are no longer available.  With regard to his subsequent videos, I have no idea.
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Stickgrappler
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« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2011, 10:18:54 AM »

Agreed... true on W. Silva's reactions and the 'newness' of the technique at the time.

If memory serves, in a recent fight, Lyoto Machida started his boxing blast on Rashad Evans, either by the 3rd step or 4th step Evans either sidestepped or something else and disrupted Machida's blast. Will check.

------

Meant I have the Vunak VHS set, I should put them onto dvd and discard my vhs.
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"A good stickgrappler has good stick skills, good grappling, and good stickgrappling and can keep track of all three simultaneously. This is a good trick and can be quite effective." - Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2011, 11:58:50 AM »

We are seeing a number of MMA fighters integrating the boxing blast into their repertoire. 

If you find footage of Lyoto's BB I would love to see it.
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Stickgrappler
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« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2011, 01:55:14 PM »

Woof Guro C,

I am firewalled from my pichost, I made this gif, think this should be it, I posted this elsewhere for UFC 98... may or may not be a good example of Lyoto's BB... also, not sure if I used up my monthly free allotment of bandwidth or not... will check at home. If pic doesn't show up, I will re-up to another pichost. If anyone finds the picsize is too big for the thread, please let me know, I will resize.



~sg
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"A good stickgrappler has good stick skills, good grappling, and good stickgrappling and can keep track of all three simultaneously. This is a good trick and can be quite effective." - Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny
Guard Dog
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« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2011, 02:16:35 PM »

Great drop step by Lyoto at the beginning of this clip!

In this case, he got the bad end of the stick with this blast.  He only hits Rashad once and Rashad swing steps into right lead to throw his right hooks, hitting him with two hard shots.
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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
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Karsk
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« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2011, 05:10:03 PM »

Most of the video examples show straight blasts with the rear arm doing the punching with each step (Lyoto and Vitor examples).  Punching with the front arm with each step or with more than one punch per step is possible.  In adrenal state situations you see the rear arm punching with each forward step more often than not.  I think that this cross position is instinctive and very natural.  Yet the front punch does exist in martial traditions and I think that its purpose is as a straight blast entry and overwhelm.  If you try to fight using it to lead you will get clobbered.  But in the context of entry after you have the opening, I think it has a greater reach and can really hit hard.  There is one example of this kind of punch in the forums already:


 



Chaining this type of entry move with subsequent punches that vary in type and target according to the distance that the opponent ends up is a good study.  In other words if the guy is farther away hit him with a forward hand.  If closer a rear hand and so on.

Karsk
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2011, 08:22:21 AM »

FWIW, here is how I organize it

a) Wing Chun/early Jun Fan Straight Blast:  Done with shuffle footwork.  2-3 strikes per step. When the range is already closed and an opening is created by a hit, it can be very effective.  Potential drawbacks:  forward pressure may not be enough in many situations, temptation to start it from too far away/without a prior hit.  Given the great exposure of the jaw to a counter hook, Plan A had better work.

b) Later Jun Fan/JKD Straight Blast see e.g. Paul Vunak:  The difference here is that the footwork is a natural sprint, so forward pressure is far greater.  This is a good thing. Again 2-3 strikes per step.  Again Plan A had better work or a counter hook can be very bad.  Again the temptation to start from too far away/without a prior hit.  The temptation can be all the greater because it can often work without a prior hit.  Against an opponent who moves his head well, weave and shoot becomes a risk in addition to the hook.

c) The Boxing Blast: see e.g Vitor Belfort vs. Vanderlei Silva or the footage in this thread of Lyoto Machida or various current MMA fighters :  Same footwork/forward pressure as the JKD Straight Blast, but only one strike per step, but because the punch is a boxing type punch instead of a vertical punch, the shoulders naturally cover the jaw or more readily can flinch to cover the jaw.  see e.g. the Lyoto clip in this thread.

d) Recently I have developed what I call "the Rabid Blast".  Like the WC/JF and the JKD Straight Blasts it seeks to impose neurological overload by punching three strikes per step (well two strikes and a sector framing strike to be specific smiley ).  Like the JKD SB and the Boxing Blast it seeks to impose strong forward pressure, though the footwork prefers to zig zag ("sawtooth" in our terminology) unless the opponent is so on his heels that a straight line is required to keep up with him.  Like the Boxing Blast is seeks to keep the jaw protected; though in my opinion it does so to a greater degree.  Ideally weave and shoot counters are partially dealt with by using the angle created by the sawtooth footwork, often in conjunction with what we call a "silat gator roll".  Because of our concerns about striking the skull with our fists, the strikes are heel palm.  The nature of the strikes overlaps with old school boxing, but is neither vertical fist nor boxing.
The chambers from which they initiate are different (think the double stick chamber we call the Arf-arful Dodger) and rhythmically they are a bit different too;  I may be mistaken but at the moment I think the rhythm is in 6/8.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 08:28:19 AM by Crafty_Dog » Logged
bigdog
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« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2011, 09:11:30 AM »

Quote from: Karsk link=topic=2176.msg47323#msg47323 date=1300831803


 [youtube

By golly, that clip looks familiar!!!!  


"d) Recently I have developed what I call "the Rabid Blast".  Like the WC/JF and the JKD Straight Blasts it seeks to impose neurological overload by punching three strikes per step (well two strikes and a sector framing strike to be specific  ).  Like the JKD SB and the Boxing Blast it seeks to impose strong forward pressure, though the footwork prefers to zig zag ("sawtooth" in our terminology) unless the opponent is so on his heels that a straight line is required to keep up with him.  Like the Boxing Blast is seeks to keep the jaw protected; though in my opinion it does so to a greater degree.  Ideally weave and shoot counters are partially dealt with by using the angle created by the sawtooth footwork, often in conjunction with what we call a "silat gator roll".  Because of our concerns about striking the skull with our fists, the strikes are heel palm.  The nature of the strikes overlaps with old school boxing, but is neither vertical fist nor boxing.
The chambers from which they initiate are different (think the double stick chamber we call the Arf-arful Dodger) and rhythmically they are a bit different too;  I may be mistaken but at the moment I think the rhythm is in 6/8."

I look forward to seeing more of this in the future. 
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 09:13:48 AM by bigdog » Logged
JSworth
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« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2011, 11:40:25 AM »

Interesting thread here, I'm glad it was brought up. I've used the JKD straight blast a few times in fights I've been in. In my little bit of experience I have found it to be a great counter to the wild, and rapid looping punches you tend to see from a lot of street punks. It's seems that it is great at putting people off balance to set up a stronger attack. Especially when directed at the nose, which I've decided only exist to be a target right in the middle of your face. I usually like to use it to work into a Thai clinch and throw a couple of knees and elbows. With all of this said, as was already pointed out, I would be cautious about using it against a fighter which can work with angles. I'm not saying it wouldn't work. I'm just saying I don't want to be the person that first finds out if it does or not.  wink
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2011, 12:09:11 PM »

The Lyoto straight blast is text book Karate straight out of the forms.  Notice the low chamber after each punch.

Tony Torre
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www.miamiarnisgroup.com
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2011, 12:32:15 PM »

Ok here's a link.  You'll see what I meant at around :29

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo9RborNI-A&feature=related

Tony Torre
Miami Arnis Group
www.miamiarnisgroup.com
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Cranewings
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« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2011, 02:34:45 AM »

Like a lot of martial arts moves, I think the strait blast works best against people who aren't very good. There is no point to hitting that many times. One good hit is worth more than the whole thing. It reminds me of tkd point fighting with it's hundred of throw away kicks.

I think the strait blast could be improved by making more of fewer hits and covering your jaw with your shoulder, but I still don't like throw away moves. Against most people, you will just see them flinch away and throw a hook, which counters this.

Also, not everyone responds to pain with the incompetence the 80s video suggests.
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prentice crawford
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« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2011, 08:24:13 AM »

Woof C wings,
 I understand your point and line of thought but it's just as important, if not more important, to keep after a good fighter just as a bad one. I want to either be out of range of an opponent or busy and sticking to him like glue if I'm in range. Yes, one good kick, punch, elbow, knee or headbutt is better than playing patty cakes however, if patty cakes is keeping the other guy going backward and not landing any one good kick, punch, elbow, knee, or headbutt of his own and it sets up the opportunity to land a good one of your own then it might have it's place in your tool kit. Also the 80's training vid is just that, a training vid, and what is being demonstrated as patty cakes against a bad fighter is not what would be occurring in a real fight, I'm sure they didn't want to injure their punch dummy and the punch dummy didn't want to show real resistance in a teaching moment. wink It's not meant to be the only tool or the only way, it's a tool that can be effective in the right moment and if you've studied it and practiced with it like any other tool in your kit, it will be there for you in that moment. I'd rather have it than not but like anything else it's up to the individual as to how much of your training is devoted to it.
                         P.C.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2011, 10:45:50 AM by prentice crawford » Logged

Cranewings
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« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2011, 11:24:52 AM »

Pc, even though I'm in an argumentative mood, I still have to agree with you Wink
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prentice crawford
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« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2011, 12:20:04 PM »

Woof C wings,
 Aw man! I can't even pick a fight about fighting. tongue
         Regards,  P.C. cheesy
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Cranewings
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« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2011, 06:58:49 PM »

I'd rather have it than not but like anything else it's up to the individual as to how much of your training is devoted to it.

Actually, I'd kind of like to talk about this point because its kind of an interesting point.

For example, I used to spar with this 430 pound boxer / tkd guy who moved like a 270 pound guy. He got on the topic of judo one day, "I'm not going to worry about this crap because I don't need it to throw someone and no one can throw me that I can't counter by punching them in the face." We thought it was a dangerous philosophy, but there wasn't really anyone around who could show him he was wrong.

On the other hand, I run into people all the time who just pound the same crap to death. On certain topics, I'm probably WAY over trained. Some of the people I train with are worse. At what point, exactly, should you quit practicing the same thing? Kali people all the time are doing the same 6 and 8 count drills. MMA guys just hit the pads with the same 5 punches over and over. I'd get it if you thought it was cardio, but as martial arts training I don't see the point.

My fiancee is a professional musician. She's pretty exact about how she practices because she doesn't like to waste time with it when she'd rather be doing something else, so she believes her practicing is very efficient. Her music instructor told her, "once you have mastered something, there is no point in continuing to practice it other than to occasionally dust it off." It was a bit of an eye opening comment to me as in my martial arts upbringing, I feel like I wasted so much time practicing the same thing over and over.

In a way, it goes hand in hand with something Crafty Dog said at a seminar I went to, "the fastest way to improve is to work the thing you are worst at." You wouldn't have time for that if your were beating something you mastered into the ground.

So where do you draw the line on practicing? I'd guess it would be to practice it until you mastered it and then drop it for the next thing. How do you know when you mastered something? When you are as good as your own teacher? When you can do it sparing?
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2011, 08:53:23 PM »

Crane Wings:

That is a very interesting question.  May I ask that you start a thread dedicated to it?

Crafty Dog

PS:  The quote of which you are thinking is "The fastest progress comes from working the weakest link."
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Cranewings
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« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2011, 12:47:36 AM »

IMHO & experience,

Angular footwork & false lead jab work WONDERS countering straight blasts. 

Good boxing can counter just about anything.

Why would you pick the straight blast over the boxing blast? I guess the main advantages of the boxing blast: longer range, easier to do, harder punches. The straight blast: faster, closer, bent arms make trapping more difficult on the off chance you are fighting someone really good at TMAs. The straight blast also lets you make different kinds of fists and possibly go after their throat directly.

I guess the two are pretty situational. Personally, I don't like the boxing blast at all. It fits in with the TKD throw away kicks - quantity over quality. I can see how it's good in it's own way, but I feel like it is the kind of technique you should try to do better than. Usually when its working, their are options for better single hits in other openings, and I'm sick of seeing people getting knocked out trying it (doesn't help that so many fans of it punch with their chins up and shoulders down).
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