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Author Topic: MMA: How to fight the taller fighter?  (Read 2628 times)
Crafty_Dog
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« on: January 04, 2012, 06:27:11 AM »

The recent fight between Jon Bones Jones and Lyoto Machida got me thinking.

Just how does one fight a fighter like JBJ?  He had a ten and a half inch reach advantage! shocked  With his agility, striking skills, and clinch game, just what the hell does a plausible strategy against him look like?

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C-Mighty Dog
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2012, 10:40:27 AM »

When you figure that out, please let me know. I'm running out of 6 graders and midgets to fight grin
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C-Mighty Dog      small dog...Big Balls
prentice crawford
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2012, 01:04:42 PM »

Woof,
 One thing that people in general do is match punch for punch or kick for kick, target for target. In other words if someone is throwing kicks you tend to throw kicks back, if they punch you punch. If they are aiming for your head you tend to aim back at their head and so on. In a mismatch where the other guy has reach on you, you definitely don't want to be in a boxing match with him so you should learn kicks at close range and don't be a head hunter with them. Keep your arms up for blocks and don't even think about punching. When he throws the punch you throw the kick into his ribs with the shin kick in tight or in the legs if allowed. If he's kicking you want to move into his kicks, get pass them and punch. If he's in the motion of kicking, his punch reach advantage is of no consequence in that moment. Now, I'm talking for MMA sport; street is much the same but fighting dirty can take away even more advantage.
                                    P.C.
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TomFurman
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2012, 02:59:56 PM »

Search for old fights of Dwight Braxton aka Muhammad Quawi
He was a short Lightheavyweight, Cruiserweight, then fought George Foreman as a Heavyweight.
Miserable, mean, guy. Convict, etc.
He used his short, stout, frame to an advantage and punished taller fighters.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2012, 04:12:41 PM »

Good comments PC.

Tom:  Any fight in particular?  URL?
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sting
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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2012, 06:15:03 PM »

C-Mighty Dog,

How about requesting fights with weapon lengths that equalize reach differences?  For example, have the taller fellow use a 5" short trainer blade while you have a 7-8+" blade.   I've tried this against shorter fighters in my venue, and it's quite the lesson.  Taller, larger fighters tend to use even larger sticks, so the smaller guys are at an even greater disadvantage in closing the distance to the body.  So, reverse that by supplying them with 18-25" sticks for which the length is inversely proportional to the height of your opponent.  This is a complete opposite approach from, say, the Eskrima Serrada of Angel Cabales, which specified a weapon length relative to the body (in his style, ribs to palm of hand when arm is extended from body, though the stick length shortened in later years.  I'm pretty sure I saw that clan using 18" sticks as early as 1991, though some of his senior students continued to use that body rule for a 22-26" stick)
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Baltic Dog

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TomFurman
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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2012, 07:22:12 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_Muhammad_Qawi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nxCVgWTweA
« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 01:11:17 AM by Crafty_Dog » Logged
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2012, 01:11:54 AM »



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whKeS5ejNl0&feature=related
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bjung
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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2012, 03:23:34 AM »

For Prentice: I think keeping your hands up, creating your shell is a good option, but the suggestion is one in which the small guy needs to be a counter fighter. Which is fine, but then you're playing a waiting game/weathering the storm and hoping you can counter. What would be your ideas for initiating attacks or bringing the fight to the taller opponent (if you have take the belt in a title fight, if he has your lunch money or whatever, but the idea is you need to come forward)?

Randy Couture was able to throw an overhand cross and then use his grinding clinch against the larger Tim Sylvia. And I think Gray Maynard had a good reach advantage over Frankie Edgar. So I think there's models out there. Jon Jones is just really great with his tools. Hopefully he keeps a level head (24 year old world champion probably has lots of temptations). Not sure who beats him at LHW.

I though Lyoto had part of the answer through footwork, but he got caught  cry
i think it's about the angles you can create, Lyoto is great at controlling the range and has good takedown defense. He lost but I think his strategy still has merit.
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prentice crawford
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2012, 10:51:37 AM »

Woof bjung,
 When it comes to entries for your attacks against people that have reach on you, the same basic ones you have in your arsenal to use against any fighter can apply but you will need to train your timing and put an emphasis on covering more ground to close the distance because you will be launching your attack from farther away than you are used to.
 Another point to bring out with that is that in this case the guy's only advantage isn't just his reach, he can F'in fight at a high level in all the modes allowed. His clinch skills as Guro Craftydog pointed out are really good so when you manage to get in on him where his reach is neutralized he can still own your ass. tongue So, you have to closely study a fighter like this then find and exploit any weakness you can come up with, as well as build a strategy that address's all his strength's not just the first one to present itself. So, let's assume you make your attack entry and do neutralize his reach, you might even land your punch but if he ties you up you're still dead. So, you need to neutralize his clinch and for that you will want to develop entries that give you his back instead of falling into his clutches going up the middle or you want to train your clinch skills to a level higher than his. This is where the complexity of fighting becomes obvious. Of course here on this public forum I don't want to go into greater detail than that. wink
                                                      P.C.      
« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 10:53:08 AM by prentice crawford » Logged

Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2012, 01:46:06 PM »

Setting the nicely set up hook, I mention that on the DBMAA forum we are having a more in depth conversation on this very point  grin
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C-Mighty Dog
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« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2012, 10:29:57 AM »

Woof Baltic Dog, thanks for the advice. In stick fighting, I have little difficulty fighting a larger fighter...never has been an issue or "intimidation" factor with me. In fact, I plan on fighting Jason Jones's brother in the next Open...he is 6'8".
The thing I have to continue working on is maintaining a proper "fighting measure" and not let it close due to my speed (which I end up doing myself) then I end up in Clinch Range (not good against someone who's 100+ pounds heavier).
This thread was MMA specific and John Jones specific...not Stick fighting. So my comment was gear towards one who is talented, fast and diversed as he is.
One would think that a smaller fighter can negate the reach advantage by kicking. But the pucher is faster, more mobile and more efficient. You can only maintain the kicking game so long. It just takes one time to jam and close the gap. Great example is the same happens with Stick vs unarmed fighter.
Since this post was MMA and John Jones specific...I answered as such. At 5'2" 135, I've fought taller fighters all my life, but not one who was quicker then me (which Jones is)
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C-Mighty Dog      small dog...Big Balls
stilljames
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2012, 12:47:48 PM »

In an MMA sport context, I would jokingly say: lose weight so that you are not in his division.

I am 5'10."  I work with a lot of people who are 6'2" and above.  I have sparred with people who are 6'8."    One tactic that I have found to work reliably well is to work the low game.   Work on staying several inches lower than one normally would and working a fast bob.  Narrow the ranges that the blows can come from, forcing the taller person to punch down.   This takes some of the sting out, unless they are very good at sledging energy and also forces them to open their head up for an overhand, every time they throw a punch.  Attack the body and legs.  If viable, the groin is at very effective punching height, even for uppercuts and body hooks.

I liked the mind-hit theory of when the taller person punches, kick.  And when they kick, go inside and punch.  Never tried it specifically but I like the concept.  Other things that need to be practiced heavily, if you are going to stay low are a decent shoot and a dynamite fireman's carry or wheel.  Sooner or later, the taller person usually decides to 'pancake' and the shorter, low fighter needs to be ready for it.  The counter is to dump them and scramble for the back.

Problems with fighting low are that it can limit mobility if one is not used to it.  And it also burns out the legs almost as fast as the JKD shuffle.

With weapons and super-extreme reach, the main thing is to stay off the thrust line as much as possible.  And remember the fulcrum mechanics.  The longer the lever, the wider the swing arc and more distance it has to travel.  Try to force the swing and play in the greater time gap.
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bjung
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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2012, 01:04:19 AM »

prentice: great points. jon jones is an incredible talent, he's going to be hard to beat anywhere during a fight. it will be fun to see if anyone can solve his riddle.
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Cranewings
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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2012, 12:18:36 PM »

I like counter striking and striking low. Kicking directly into the lower leg or shin is amazing. If you are the same weight, usually the shorter person is stronger, so being in close and under the center of gravity can work if you wrestle. For stick fighting, even if one guy is taller, usually both people have the same length weapon, so the smaller guy can just be better at hitting the taller person in the hand. Same concept as striking the low leg - break the big man down.
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