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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2007, 09:23:55 PM »

IIRC a boxing welterweight is 147 pounds.
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Guard Dog
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« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2007, 09:30:53 PM »

Sherk could never make a catch weight.  They would have to fight 155.  Do you think this is what Cintron has in mind?

Gruhn
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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
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SB_Mig
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« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2007, 04:43:40 PM »

Just saw this today:

ESPN's 150 GREATEST BOXERS


http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/greatest/featureVideo?page=greatest150
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SB_Mig
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« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2007, 05:28:26 PM »

oops...

50 greatest grin
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Jeff Gentry
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« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2007, 06:19:39 PM »

If it is boxing rule's the UFC guy lose's alot of weapon's, If it is UFC rule's most boxer's will have trouble with knee's in the clinch and defending kick's, the rule's make the game.

Just a thought i would still love to see how it play's out regardless.

Jeff
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Usque Ad Finem
Sisco T.
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« Reply #55 on: May 15, 2007, 05:37:37 PM »

delahoya vs. mayweather........

i just wanted to say this was one of the most frustrating boxing bouts I have watched. i am one of the biggest advocates of oscar but the way he fought against mayweather had me not watching the last 3 rounds. one of the most puzzling things he said after they asked why he stopped using the jab after the 1st few rounds,''it just wasn't a jab night''! mayweather fought a tactically flawless fight to me, and the one judge who had oscar as the winner must have been paying too much attention to the ring girls.

Francisco
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Guard Dog
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« Reply #56 on: May 17, 2007, 11:31:20 AM »

It really makes me wonder if the fight was all about the Benjamin's!

Gruhn
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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
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Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
"Smuggling Concepts Across the Frontiers of Style”
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #57 on: May 17, 2007, 05:24:33 PM »

Hmm, , , , lets see , , , $20 mil for Mayweather + $55mil for Oscar + the fact that is boxing we are talking bout here=_____
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Dog Robertlk808
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« Reply #58 on: May 18, 2007, 02:09:34 PM »

http://www.boxingbuzz.com/peter-klitschko/greenhill3.htm

« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 02:11:57 PM by Robertlk808 » Logged

"You see, it's not the blood you spill that gets you what you want, it's the blood you share. Your family, your friendships, your community, these are the most valuable things a man can have." Before Dishonor - Hatebreed
bjung
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« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2007, 11:48:13 PM »

the cotto-judah fight was great fun, lots of good speed and solid technique, great boxing match over eleven rounds...
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2007, 11:58:11 PM »

Who won?

I saw a promo piece on HBO for it the other day-- it looks like the boxing folks at HBO are beginning to realize that MMA is a serious threat to their survivial and are starting to tighten up their promotional game.
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Dog Robertlk808
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« Reply #61 on: June 10, 2007, 01:38:47 AM »

This sounds like an exciting fight! Hopefully I can catch the replay.

WBA welterweight champion Miguel Cotto (30-0, 25 KOs) scored an eleventh round TKO over Zab Judah (34-5, 25 KOs) in a wild back and forth classic on Saturday before a crowd of 20,658 at a sold out Madison Square Garden in New York City. In round one Judah hurt Cotto with an uppercut, Cotto put Judah on the deck with a low blow. Cotto was effective for most of round two, but was rocked again by Judah at the end of the round. Cotto continued the pressure in the third and another low blow put Judah down again. A point was deducted from Cotto. Cotto was bleeding from the mouth as Judah found a home for the left hand. Judah was cut over the right eye in the fourth as he was hammered by Cotto. Cotto was cut over the right eye in the sixth but wobbled Judah midway through the round. Judah opened up and hurt Cotto again in the seventh. Cotto was back on the attack in an exciting eighth. Judah's right eye was starting to close in the ninth and Judah took a knee to escape Cotto's assault. Cotto continued to brutalize Judah in the tenth. Judah was floored by a right hand in the eleventh and referee Arthur Mercante Jr. stopped the fight after Cotto's followup assault. Time was :49.
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"You see, it's not the blood you spill that gets you what you want, it's the blood you share. Your family, your friendships, your community, these are the most valuable things a man can have." Before Dishonor - Hatebreed
Dog Robertlk808
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« Reply #62 on: June 28, 2007, 07:43:30 PM »

Looks like Mayweather is coming out of retirement.

Mayweather targets Hatton!
Floyd vows to beat him all the way back to England.
"Ricky Hatton has talked nonstop about fighting me for the last two weeks," says 'retired' WBC welterweight/super welterweight champion Floyd Mayweather. "He has disrespected me and my accomplishments in the ring, and I take that very seriously. I'm going to give him the opportunity to step up and fight the best in the world. I don't think this punk will take the challenge." A potential bout against Hatton would set the stage for a match-up between two of the sports best undefeated fighters. With his win over Castillo, Hatton improved his record to 43-0 with 31 KO's. Mayweather is 38-0 with 24 KO's. "Now that Hatton has opened up his big mouth, he might start to think about what he has been asking for," continued Mayweather. "Does he really want to step into the ring with best fighter of this era and embarrass himself? Being the coward that he is, I doubt he'll get in the ring. We'll see what his excuse will be this time."
Tuesday, June 26 2007
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"You see, it's not the blood you spill that gets you what you want, it's the blood you share. Your family, your friendships, your community, these are the most valuable things a man can have." Before Dishonor - Hatebreed
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #63 on: July 05, 2007, 01:04:50 AM »

Ali, Sugar Ray and Mike Tyson together on the Arsenio Hall show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyfzyvEKLCo
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Dog Robertlk808
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« Reply #64 on: July 12, 2007, 03:26:37 PM »

This should be an exciting fight!

Vargas-Mayorga erupts!
http://www.fightnews.com/salazar533.htm

They got into it during the press conference.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 03:28:38 PM by Robertlk808 » Logged

"You see, it's not the blood you spill that gets you what you want, it's the blood you share. Your family, your friendships, your community, these are the most valuable things a man can have." Before Dishonor - Hatebreed
bjung
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« Reply #65 on: July 14, 2007, 08:39:24 PM »

great knockout by kermit cintron and arturo gatti is fighting next (i lol'd when they mentioned that they brought mickey ward in to help train/motivate him...life is funny/quirky sometimes)

« Last Edit: July 14, 2007, 09:59:22 PM by bjung » Logged
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #66 on: August 18, 2007, 05:31:56 PM »

Marquez vs. Vasquez:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw9Hntr9M7g
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #67 on: November 23, 2007, 12:52:01 PM »

TO KUNG FU MAGAZINE
Wisdom for Body & Mind
Wed, November 21, 2007

When Boxing was a Martial Art The Sweet Science of Bare-knuckle Pugilism
by Frank Allen

Striking with the fist as an organized sport came to the British Isles in 43 C.E. with the Roman invasion. The Romans adopted the Greek Olympic sport and created even more brutal versions of their own often involving the use of studded gauntlets. The sport of boxing left the British Isles with the last of the Roman legions in 436 C.E. and did not reappear for almost 1300 years. During the Middle Ages, armed combat was the order of the day, and wrestling reigned as the combat sport of the common people appearing at fairs and festivals. There was no art or science to striking techniques which were only used in all-out brawling.

In the second decade of the 1700's, the premier fencer in England was James Figg. He was considered to be the national champion of backsword and quarterstaff which he taught at his Fighting Academy on Tottenham Court Road in London. It was at this Fighting Academy that Figg devised his method of "fencing with the fists" and in 1719, declared himself to be the Bare-Knuckle Champion of England. He defended this title against several challengers including his arch rival Ned Sutton whom he defeated with fists, staff, and sword.

With the help of his patron, the Earl of Peterborough, Figg opened the first London arena devoted to prize fighting. It was located on Oxford Road and known as Figg's Ampitheatre. His advertising card was designed by the famous artist William Hogarth. Hogarth painted a portrait of his friend the fighter dressed as a gentleman with a powdered wig, lace shirt, and fists clenched in front of him. Figg's Amphitheatre catered to the gentlemen of London's upper classes so Figg often performed at Southwark Fair to the delight of his working class fans. He would set up a booth and take on all comers.

Figg remained undefeated in these booth matches and his occasional formal title defenses until his retirement in 1734. Upon Figg's retirement, his top student George Taylor declared himself to be the new British Champion. Figg remained popular with the gentry and socialized with the Prince of Wales and other Royal Family members until his death in 1740. Years after his death, Figg became known as the "Father of Boxing."

The Art of Boxing Develops

Boxing during the Figg and Taylor decades was an all-out anything goes bare-knuckle fight with absolutely no rules. Figg and Taylor defeated their brash opponents by adapting fencing techniques to fist fighting. They fought out of a fencer's stance and threw power punches with a fencer's lunge. All this would change with boxing's first Renaissance Man, the third British Bare-Knuckle Boxing Champion, Jack Broughton.

Broughton defeated Taylor in 1738 to win the championship. The turning point of his career and the art of boxing came in 1741, when Broughton defeated George "The Coachman" Stevenson in a brutal 45 minute bout. Stevenson died as a result of the beating he took from Broughton. Broughton was so moved that he decided to affect a change in his beloved sport. He was already the first boxer to use a preconceived strategy. Broughton would size up his opponent's technique before a bout and adjust his style to take advantage of his opponent's weaknesses. The Stevenson bout led Jack to write the very first rules for the sport of Boxing.

Broughton's Rules stated that the contest would take place on a raised platform with a wooden rail around it, and a three foot square marked in the middle. A bout began with both fighters placing one of their feet on a line of the square and across from his opponent. A round lasted until a man went down, then both fighters had a half minute to "toe the line" and begin to fight again. This was thirty assisted seconds in which a boxer's handlers would work on him for the entire time. This made it difficult to knock a man out. Many fighters broke a knuckle with a punch that would end a fight by modern rules. Thirty seconds later they were facing a refreshed opponent and a broken knuckle. This led to a great deal of body punching, grappling and long fights of attrition. Any fighter who could not toe the line in the allotted time was the loser.

Broughton's Rules also said that nobody could be on the platform, but the boxers and their seconds, that two umpires would be chosen from the audience to settle disputes, and that fighters could not hit a fallen opponent nor could they touch the other fighter below the waist at any time for any reason. These rules still left ample opportunity for martial improvisation. All types of striking and grappling were allowed as long as it was above the waist and the opponent was standing. This style of fighting was not too different from the Chinese Platform Challenge Matches that were taking place on the other side of the world then.

Broughton's Rules were accepted in 1743 and were Boxing's only rules until 1838. Broughton also invented Boxing's first gloves, which he called "The Mufflers." Broughton's mufflers were used in training and exhibition matches and contributed greatly to the number of young noblemen who studied Boxing for health and fitness in Broughton's school. The Duke of Cumberland was Broughton's patron and he got Jack a position in Yeomen of the Guard, which Broughton held until his death at the age of 85.

The Duke bet heavily on Broughton when he met Figg's grandson, "The Norwich Butcher," Jack Slack. Slack was a rough and tumble fighter who billed himself as "The Knight of the Cleaver" and was known for his "Chopper" punch. The Chopper punch was the equivalent of a modern rabbit punch to the back of the neck, and mimicked the motion of work in his butcher shop. During the first ten minutes of the match Slack all but closed Broughton's eyes. The Duke of Cumberland, fearing for his wager, called out, "What are you about Broughton? You can't fight! You're beat!" To which Broughton replied, "I can't see my man, your Highness, I am blind, but not beat; only let me be placed before my antagonist, and he shall not gain the day yet!" This bravado did him no good and Slack won the bout at the 14 minute mark. The Duke of Cumberland withdrew his support and Broughton retired from Boxing. He turned his arena/school into a profitable antique shop.

Despite his illustrious heritage, Slack brought about Boxing's first of many disreputable periods. He threw fights of his own, fixed the results of other boxers matches and generally brought on the first era of the boxing scandal

The Patriarch of Irish Clever Boxers

Boxing as an art form was raised to new heights with the rise to prominence of the Spanish-English Jew, Daniel Mendoza. Being raised in London's East End, and of Spanish descent and Jewish faith, one can assume that Mendoza learned to fight early, although he was only 5 feet 7 inches tall and never weighed more than 168 pounds. Mendoza competed from the mid-1780's until 1820. Probably due to his size, Mendoza was the first boxer to popularize a style in which footwork, jabbing and defense were used to overcome brute force. It is often said that Mendoza was the first to put the "science" into the Sweet Science.

In his first match, Mendoza beat a fighter who was known as Harry the Coalheaver. Daniel was first recognized as a top rank boxer in 1787 when he defeated Sam "The Bath Butcher" Martin. However, it was his four-fight series with "The Gentleman Fighter" Richard Humphries that really brought him to the public eye. The two were very well matched and Humphries won their first match in 1787. Mendoza was ahead in their return match the following year, when he suffered a leg injury at the 29 minute mark and had to throw in the towel. In 1789, Mendoza dominated their third match and won in 52 minutes. When he beat The Gentleman in 15 minutes the following year, Humphries retired.

Mendoza became the British Boxing Champion with his win over Bill Warr in 1794. With this title he toured England, Scotland and Ireland with the Aston Circus. This tour greatly increased the popularity of Mendoza's Scientific Style of boxing and it became the rage of young boxers throughout the British Isles. While touring Ireland, he was challenged and had his skills, heritage, and faith insulted by one Squire Fitzgerald. When Mendoza met and thoroughly thrashed this upstart member of the Irish gentry, he and his boxing style became the pride of the Irish working class and their inspiration to learn to box. It was in this manner that a Spanish-English Jew became the Patriarch of Irish Clever Boxers. In April of 1795, Mendoza lost the title to "Gentleman" John Jackson, who weighed over 200 pounds and specialized in the left jab. It was Jackson's third and last fight.

Mendoza became one of Britain's most respected boxing instructors, and continued to fight on and off until 1820. At the age of 56, he lost his last fight to 52 year old Tom Owens who invented the dumbbell weight. Mendoza lived until the age of 73.

The First Afro-American Boxing Stars

The early years of the 1800's saw the rise of the first Afro-American boxing stars. Bill Richmond was born on Staten Island, New York, which housed British Military Headquarters in the American Colonies. During the Revolutionary War, Richmond worked for the household of General Earl Percy. When Percy returned to England as the Duke of Northumberland Richmond went with him. Although he was only a 5 foot-6 inch, 165 pound middleweight under the Duke's patronage, Richmond met and defeated a number of England's top heavyweights. He beat Jack Carter, Atkinson of Bandbury, Ike Wood, Tom Davis, Tom Shelton, and split a pair of fights with George Maddox. But he couldn't defeat the Champion, Tom Cribb, who knocked Richmond out in 1805. Although he fought as "The Black Terror," Richmond was known for his gentlemanly demeanor and lifestyle

Tom Molineaux was born a slave, on a plantation in Virginia. He, his father and brothers fought matches against slaves from other plantations for their owner, Algernon Molineaux. One time before a fight upon which very heavy stakes were wagered, the master offered Tom his freedom if he won. Tom won, Algernon was true to his word, and Tom was off for New York. While working on the docks in New York, Molineaux heard about the success of Bill Richmond and immediately signed on as a deck hand headed for England. Once in England, this 5 foot 8 inch-tall, 195-pound ebony warrior announced that he was "The Moor" Champion of America (a title that did not exist), and that he could beat any man including retired champion, Tom Cribb. He then found Bill Richmond and convinced him to both train him and back him.

Cribb was not pleased with any of this and talked his friend and protege, Bill "the British Unknown" Burrows into taking on the Moor. When Molineaux stopped the British Unknown with a series of short punches to the head, Cribb turned to veteran boxer Tom Blake. When Molineaux easily defeated Blake, he tried to declare himself the Champion of England. This prompted Cribb to finally accept the challenge of Molineaux the Moor.

The two fighters met in an outside ring on a cold and rainy December day in 1810. It was perhaps one of the two most outstanding matches of the Bare-Knuckle Era. Molineaux drew first blood in the second round, and was clearly the harder puncher of the two. Cribb was relentless and kept up a continual body attack. The Moor dropped the champion in the 28th round, and Cribb failed to beat the 30 second count. But Cribb's second accused the black fighter of hardening his punch with bullets in his hand. While the umpires searched for the nonexistent bullets, Cribb revived and the match continued. A couple of rounds later, Molineaux began to shiver from the cold and show signs of exhaustion. In the 33rd round he collapsed to the ground, looked up at his second, Bill Richmond, and said, "Me can fight no more! " He then fell into unconsciousness and had to be carried from the ring.

Cribb tried to retire again, but within a few months a revised Molineaux defeated Jim Rimmer and tried to claim the championship again. This brought the 5 foot 10 inches tall 200 pound champion out of retirement again. While Cribb was training arduously in Scotland, training camp being an innovation in boxing, Molineaux, now estranged from the gentlemanly Richmond, was enjoying his very first stint as a party animal.

They met for the second time in December of 1811, and the Moor's power almost won the day early when he completely closed one of Cribb's eyes. The Champion couldn't see until one of his seconds lanced the bruised area around the eye. From that point on, Cribb's stamina began to win the day. He dropped Molineaux with a body punch in the sixth round and finally caught the Moor flush in the 11th, breaking his jaw and stopping him. Molineaux traveled Britain with a Boxing and Wrestling Show, but continued his dissipated lifestyle and died in Ireland at the age of 34. Cribb finally retired in 1822 opening a successful tavern called The Union Arms. He lived until the age of 68. British fight fans always loved Cribb for exemplifying their favorite qualities in a boxer: "Pluck and Bottom." Pluck meaning courage and Bottom meaning stamina.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #68 on: November 23, 2007, 12:53:05 PM »

Boxing Comes to America

The first official boxing match in America took place in New York City in 1816. Dutchman Jacob Hyer defeated Tom Beasley in the only match that either of them fought. Thirty-three years later, Jacob's son, Tom Hyer, won the first American Championship when he defeated small-time criminal, James Ambrose, who fought as "Yankee Sullivan."

In 1838, Broughton's Rules for prize fighting were superseded by the London Prize Ring Rules. The structure of the match remained essentially the same, but the fighting area was to be surrounded with rope instead of a wooden rail, and, preferably, the bout would be contended outside on turf. There was also an adjunct rule about not using the ropes to your advantage. The biggest change brought about by the adaptation of the London Prize Ring Rules was the prohibition of what had formerly been common techniques. Head butting, hair pulling, eye gouging, and neck throttling, which included choking, head locking and neck cranking, were expressly forbidden. The earlier prohibition against leg contact was extended to knee strikes. Until then, the knee strike to the body had been a common technique known as gut-kneeing. The London Prize Ring Rules also forbade throwing yourself to the ground in order to end the round and get yourself half minute of rest. It was a rule that some of the better technical boxers learned to circumvent.

Bare-knuckle pugilism may have reached its height as an art form under the London Prize Ring Rules. Due to the limitation of brawling techniques, more boxers began to learn the Scientific Style that was developed by Daniel Mendoza. Many fighters began to add the art of Cornish Wrestling to the Mendoza Scientific Style. This style of wrestling perfectly adapted to the new rules of boxing. It developed through centuries of competition with its rival of English Westlands Wrestling, the Devonshire Style.

Traditionally the Devon men were known as the "kickers and trippers," while the Cornish men were known for their "hugging and heaving." Techniques of Cornish Wrestling consisted mostly of upper body throwing techniques, because it was a standing style in which a throw constituted a win. All the old Celtic styles of wrestling ended in this fashion, because the Celts considered ground grappling to be unmanly. Bare-knuckle Boxers favored a type of spring hip throw, in which they followed their opponent down, landing their full weight on his abdomen. This technique was called a "Cross Buttock." Another favorite technique under the London Prize Ring Rules was to "Seize and Fib," grabbing and pulling in your opponent with one hand while delivering short punches with the other hand.

The spinning backfist was also a common technique and was called the "Pivot Punch." When a bare-knuckle fighter added the sweeps and low kicks of Devonshire Wrestling to his arsenal he was in command of a practical fighting system. This mixture of striking and grappling brought boxing to its highest level as a complete martial art.

The Famous Fight of 1860

The most outstanding fight ever to be contested under the London Prize Ring Rules took place in 1860. It was the First World Boxing Championship and was between the English Champion, Tom Sayers, and the American Champion, John Carmel Heenan. This fight and the events surrounding it were a drama worthy of a Pulitzer Prize winning novel and an Academy Award winning motion picture. It was a story of courageous warriors, loyal managers, treacherous wives, adoring fans, and outraged police.

Tom Sayers was a 5 foot 8 inch tall bricklayer from Brighton, England who fought the early part of his career as a 140 pound middleweight. As a 19-year-old novice prize fighter he fell in love with an attractive 21 year old divorcee, named Sarah Powell. She would be the love and the bane of the rest of his life. In their second year together, she had their first child, Young Sarah. Young Tom was born 3 years later. Tommy loved his "little nippers" more than life itself and would do anything for the kids.

In 1853, Tommy got his shot at the British Middleweight Title, which was held by Nat Langham. Langham was a lanky 37-year-old veteran, known as "Old Clever Nat." He was a master of the left jab to the eyes and then slipping under his opponent, and looking like he had been thrown whenever he needed a rest. He was at his best when the grass was wet, as it was when he met Sayers. The 25-year-old Sayers was the stronger of the two and won all the early and middle rounds, but Langham was slowly working on the younger man's eyes. In the 48th round Tom's eyes were so swollen that his handlers had to cut the bruise areas to allow him to see. Langham was almost completely exhausted, but continued throwing every punch at Tommy's eyes. When Tom rushed Old Nat at the beginning of the 60th round, he was met by a left jab to each eye and a wild hook to the ear, which Langham threw with such force, that both men went down.

Tom waved off the 30 second rest and charged right back at Langllam, who caught him coming in with a left-right combination to Tommy's battered eyes. Sayers spun and groped blindly towards his corner ending the match. It had lasted 61 rounds, averaging 90 seconds each. Sayers learned a lot about boxing techniques in that match, but he couldn't ever get Langham into a rematch. Old Nat retired and opened a bar. Seven years later, he would sell tickets to the Sayers versus Heenan match at his bar. The following year found Tom so broke that he had to tour the countryside in search of matches.

While Torn was out of town, Sarah took up with Alfred Aldridge, a young handsome gambler, who was a member of Tommy's entourage. When Tom returned from a rather unsuccessful tour, Sarah announced to him that she was seeing Aldridge and would continue to do so. If Tommy gave her any trouble about it then she would explain to the kids that they were born illegitimately because Tom married Sarah after their birth. Tom had married her as soon as her first husband died, but he didn't want his children stigmatized in Victorian England so he agreed to Sarah's demands. He moved in with his sister and continued to spend time with Sarah and the children whenever it struck Sarah's fancy. Matters were really complicated when Sarah had three children by Aldridge while married to Tom, making them Tom's only legal heirs.

In 1855 Sayers was completely broke, so he accepted a match with heavyweight contender Harry Poulson, who weighed over 200 pounds. Tom went up to 152 pounds for the bout. Sayers first slowly, but methodically closed the big man's eyes, then knocked him so unconscious that Poulson couldn't be revived within the mandatory 30 seconds. This fight brought Tom to the attention of his new manager and soon to be close friend, John Gideon. It also started his lucrative heavyweight career and Sarah was right there to spend the money

Two years later, Tom Sayers won the British Heavyweight Title from William "The Tipton Slasher" Perry, in a bout which the champ's corner tossed in the sponge, at the one hour and 45 minute mark. By this time, Gideon was regularly advising Tom to divorce Sarah. but Tom steadfastly refused. He claimed that it was for his nippers' sake, but he obviously still had strong feelings for Sarah.
Meanwhile, Back in the States...

Meanwhile, on the other side of the pond, John C. Heenan had become Heavyweight Champion of the Americas by default and without winning a major match. This 6 foot 1 inch, 200 pound, muscular, handsome young Irishman, was born in upstate New York. but gained his reputation as a fighter while working for a steamship building company in Benicia, California. A number of successful street fights led to Heenan's best friend, Jim Cusick, settling up a number of pick up bouts for Heenan. Cusick was a nervous little man who talked incessantly and always wore a bow tie. He was also a genius manager and totally dedicated to Heenan. Cusick parleyed mere pick up fights into a chance for John to fight for the American Heavyweight Title, against title claimant, "Old Smoke." John Morrissey.

The 23-year-old Heenan met the 26-year-old Morrissey on October 19, 1857 in Canada just across the border from Buffalo, NY. The steamboat carrying the fighters and crowd left Buffalo at 8:00 AM, but spent all day avoiding police boats and the fighters didn't come to scratch until almost midnight. Heenan overpowered the 5 foot 10 inch tall, 180 pound Morrissey in the first round and may have knocked him out, except for a missed punch that hit a rig post, hurting Heenan's hand. Heenan still won all the early rounds, but when an old leg abscess reopened and began to weaken the Benicia Boy, Old Smoke got a second wind and began to pummel the weakening youngster. In the 11th round, both men had to be led to the scratch line, where Heenan swung wildly, missed, fell down and passed out, giving Morrissey the match.

Morrisey promptly retired from boxing and went on to become a successful gambler and New York politician. When he refused to give Heenan a rematch, the Benicia Boy was declared the American Champion. This was a title which Cusick would use to set up the match with Tom Sayers.

It took a year and a half to get the trans-Atlantic match set up during which Jim and John stayed in New York. While visiting a newspaper office, Heenan met a very cute, short, curvaceous little actress from New Orleans, named Adah Isaacs Menken and he promptly fell in love. Adah had that effect on men. She was sort of a cross between Marilyn Monroe and Betty Boop and men seemed to do what she wanted. Adah and the "Boy" were seen everywhere together right until he left for training in England. Just before he left, they announced that they had secretly married. When John was gone, Adah billed herself as Mrs. John C. Heenan, making a big name for herself on the New York Stage. In her most famous and oft repeated role, she donned flesh colored silk tights and played a naked, captured princess. Her fame spread far and wide as "The Great Naked Lady of the Stage." It finally spread too far and Mr. Menken appeared and explained to the press that Adah had somehow forgotten to divorce him.

When John Morrisey departed for England to help Tom Sayers train for a match against Morrisey's old nemesis, he was only too happy to bring the news of Adah's bigamy. Heenan did not however come apart at the news. He simply announced that he and Adah had never really, legally married and began to train harder than ever. Jim Cusick, who hated Adah and was detested by her in turn, was very happy at this outcome.

Heenan finally met Tom Sayers on the morning of April 17, 1860. Sayers threw his hat into the ring at 7:20 AM and Heenan quickly followed him into the ring. It was a fine morning, in that field in Farnborough, and Tom remarked to the boy, "How are you M'boy? Fine morning, this." John replied, "Yes, we've got a beautiful morning for it." To which Tom answered, "Yes, if a man can't fight on such a day as this, he can't fight at all!"

When the boys toed the scratch at 7:29, it was noted that Tom's face was stained walnut brown by the pickling solution that he used to toughen his skin. Heenan was fair skinned but much larger. The first five minutes was a warm up dance, with lots of movement and no punches actually landed. Just as they worked their way into Heenan's corner, they started to exchange punches. When they backed out of the corner, Heenan's nose was bleeding, causing money to exchange hands on the "first blood" bets. When the Boy noticed the blood, he charged forward and effortlessly tossed the smaller man to the turf, ending the first round.
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« Reply #69 on: November 23, 2007, 12:53:58 PM »


Sayers began the second round by slipping, sliding, jabbing, and generally confusing the big youngster, until a big, wide Heenan left hook dazed him, allowing the Boy to wrestle him down and land his full weight on Tommy's ribs. For the next four rounds, Tommy took a beating, being countered and knocked down in each of them. He was even knocked senseless in the fourth, but was revived by his seconds. Sayers knew that Heenan's hands were taking damage from the heavy head punching.

The seventh and eighth rounds were legendary, lasting thirteen and twenty minutes, respectively. They are even more amazing in retrospect, knowing that Tom's right arm began to swell at the end of the sixth round, heralding an injury that would later prove to be a broken arm.

Tom Sayers got his second wind and began to time the Boy with lighting left hand counter punches, that cut Heenan's right cheek and closed his right eye in the seventh. The round still ended with Heenan knocking Sayers off balance and down, but Sayers had scored the damage. Both men's mouths were bloodied in the eighth, with the right side of Heenan's face getting worse and Sayers' right arm swelling and stiffening. The round ended with Sayers still going down.

Local police arrive during the ninth round, but there weren't enough of them to do anything, so they just watched. Round after round Sayers punched Heenan's face with his lightning left and was then thrown or knocked down. His right arm is a mess, but Heenan's face looked worse. Round 21 began at 8:38 AM, the beginning of the 2nd hour of unarmed combat. In the 26th round, Sayers left jab finally found the mark, of Heenan's left eye. The round still ended with Sayers going down from a Heenan wild hook. As the fight progressed it became a continual sequence of damage to Heenan's face followed by Sayers being knocked or thrown to the turf.

The police reinforcements finally arrived and tried to stop the fight. The fighters finished several more rounds, while the police fought their way through the crowd and past the "Ring Bullies," which was the current term for boxing match security guards. In the 36th round the police finally reached the ring and distracted the referee, just as an almost blind Heenan tried to strangle Sayers with a ring rope. One of Sayers' seconds cut the rope and the ring came apart in the ensuing riot. However, a group of 30 or so hard core betters threw their arms around each other, and made a shoulder to shoulder ring, allowing the riot to swirl around them.

The boys fought six more rounds, before referee Dowling broke into the ring of betters and declared the fight over. At which point everyone broke and ran for the train. Both of the combatants had to be assisted to the train. The bout had lasted for 2 hours and 20 minutes, dissected into 42 rounds.

Later the match was declared a draw and each fighter was presented with a silver belt. After a lengthy healing period, Sayers and Heenan toured Britain together reenacting their famous bout. During this trip they became fast friends. Tom's health began to fade and he never fought again. John returned to the States to make up with Adah, but when she spurned him, he returned to England to wait out the Civil War. When he lost to the new English Champion, Tom King, Tom Sayers was a second for Heenan. Sayers was obviously sick at the time. Two years later, in 1865, Tom quietly died of diabetes at his sister's house. Sarah got all of his money and Gideon set up trust funds for Young Tom and Young Sarah.

John Heenan returned to America and became successful in Tammany Hall politics, in New York City. Unfortunately, he was connected to Boss Tweed and when the Boss went down in 1871 John lost everything. By 1873, he was in bad health and was trying to make a living as a sparring partner. His ever present friend and manager suggested that they return to their roots. SO, they boarded a train for the sunny skies of California. However, at the station in Green River, Wyoming, Heenan died in the arms of his friend, Jim Cusick. Heenan was 38 years old, a year younger than Tom Sayers was at his passing, 8 years earlier.

New Rules for Boxing, John L. Sullivan

In 1867, famous English amateur sportsman and athletics organizer, John Graham Chambers wrote a new set of rules to govern gloved, amateur boxing contests and exhibitions. Chambers had been a much heralded oarsman for Cambridge, and was the organizer of the Amateur Athletic Club, and a key figure in the beginnings of England's first Amateur Athletic Association. Besides mandating the use of gloves, his rules created the first three minute timed round, forbade all types of grappling, and invented the 10 second long unassisted knockout. The limited number of timed rounds created the first need for judges' decisions.

When Chambers got his old college buddy, John Sholto Douglas, the Eighth Marquess of Queensberry, to sponsor his rules, they became known as the Queensberry Rules. It would be almost two decades before these rules would begin to influence the ranks of the professional prize ring

The late years of the 1870's saw the rise of the last of the great bareknuckle fighters, "The Boston Strong Boy," John L. Sullivan, himself. His reputation began in his teens, when he would walk into various Boston taverns, thump loudly on the bar and announce, "I'm John L. Sullivan, himself, and I can lick any man in the house!" It was a boast that he never failed to back up. At 5 feet 10 inches tall and 190 pounds, the young Irishman was a natural power puncher. From the beginning of his career, he would fight by either the London or Queensberry rules. He always favored the gloves, which protected his hands while throwing multiple power punches at the large bones of an opponent's jaw and temples.

Sullivan's first big match took place on a barge in the Hudson River in New York, in 1881. It was a bare-knuckle affair, and when the Boston Strong Boy knocked "the Bulls Head Terror," John Flood, down eight times and stopped him in the ninth round, he set up a match with Paddy Ryan, the American Champion. They met in Mississippi City on Feb.7th of thc following year. It was a one-sided match, with Sullivan knocking Ryan senseless, with a right to the jaw in the ninth. This fight made Sullivan the Bare-Knuckle Champion of American and a national hero who most people considered to be unbeatable. In January of 1885, Sullivan stopped Ryan in the first round of their rematch and in August of the same year he stopped Dominick McCaffery, in the sixth round, with gloves on, to win the new Queensberry Rules World Heavyweight Boxing Championship.

The following year, Sullivan fought a third bareknuckle match with Ryan and stopped him in the third round. In 1889. Sullivan met Jake Kilrain for the Bare-Knuckle Championship of the World. Kilrain had recently defeated the current English Champion and was already called the World Champion by a handful of publications. When Sullivan won a grueling 75 round contest, he became the undisputed World Heavyweight Boxing Champion.

The Sullivan-Kilrain fight became the last of the Bare-Knuckle Championship Matches and John L. Sullivan the last of the Bare-Knuckle Champions. When the Great John L. decided to defend his overall title by the Queensbury Rules in 1892 it was the end of bare-knuckle boxing. When he was stopped in the 21st round of that match by Gentleman Jim Corbett there was no turning back. The San Francisco bank clerk was strictly a gloved fighter and after him the sport never looked back.

The Queensbury Rules were always presented as safer than bareknuckle boxing, but, in reality, they became the standard of the sport because they created a faster paced and more exciting sport for the new industrial age. The timed round with a mandatory minute rest kept the fighters going at a quicker pace as well as the ten second, unassisted knock-out which presented the possibility of an abrupt and exciting stoppage at any moment! The absence of grappling stopped a lot of bone injuries, and the padded gloves produced less facial blood, however, the same protection for the hands allowed for more power head punches with less damage to the hands leading to increased brain trauma. In the long run, the sport was probably not more or less safe, but, rather, faster, more exciting, and more saleable to the pubic. This exciting new sport was also much less of a complete martial art than it had been in the days of the London Prize Ring and the warriors of the Sweet Science of Bare-Knuckle Pugilism.

---------------------------------
About Frank Allen:
Frank Allen is the Chief Instructor and Director of the Wu-Tang Physical Culture Association which he founded in 1979. He has been the student of Taoist Master B.K. Frantzis since 1976. Allen was the student of former amateur boxing champion, Verne "Bull Dog" Williams from 1984-2000, and was a writer/reseacher for the "Bull Dog Williams Boxing Interview Series." He is a freelance writer who lives in New York City and can be reached by e-mail at : baguarat@aol.com.
 
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=473
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maija
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« Reply #70 on: November 23, 2007, 04:56:10 PM »

Frank Allen has a great workout space on the Lower East Side. I have trained with him on occasion and his "Fighting For Health" class is a blast.
A few years back when I was at class, Verne "The Bulldog" Williams was there watching and giving tips on boxing which was very cool. Frank is a mine of information about all kinds of martial arts, history and meditation aswell as being a great story teller. Well recommended if you are in NYC.
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« Reply #71 on: November 23, 2007, 08:15:21 PM »

Wow, that was great!!

Thanks for sharing the article.
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« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2007, 03:50:57 PM »

On the "Tippy-tappy drills-- threat or menace?" thread Sun Helmet brought up the following point:

Quote
The recent HBO series 24/7 focused on the upcoming Hatton/Mayweather boxing match had a humorous segment when Ricky Hatton was parodying Mayweather's "tippy tappy" focus mitt training. Hatton just didn't think it was very practical because the opponent/mitt holder was standing squared up to Mayweather. However, as many here know - working in that range using "hubad" like training works on many other things besides power, it is useful as long as it isn't the ONLY thing you do. For example, how is the reactionary response time honed when Mayweather is suddenly faced with an opponent who must move to get into position and has a wider striking arc?

Whether or not one likes Mayweather's personality or even if he loses to Hatton - one can't deny those drill's effectiveness for a fighter like Mayweather who also uses simultaneous block/strikes ala lots of Silat/FMA systems. So far he's won numerous titles and remained undefeated.

I like Hatton myself just because of his tenacity - he reminds me of Pacquaio, and this may be a very exciting bout between a clash of styles.

What bothers me about the way that everyone holds for Mayweather (mainly his uncle) is that I think the pads should be used for power as well.  It seems that the way they hold usually has the pad holder meeting the punch half way rather than allowing the punch to come to the target.  This does not allow the punch to fully extend and as such, does not allow the puncher to execute with proper form and technique to create power.  This is not to say that this way of pad holding does not have its place, I just think that when this is the only way a pad holder holds for a fighte (which it seems to be from the footage of FM)r, that it can aid in the development of bad habits (less power, not developing range, etc.)

Woof!

Gruhn
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« Reply #73 on: December 06, 2007, 10:11:47 PM »


What bothers me about the way that everyone holds for Mayweather (mainly his uncle) is that I think the pads should be used for power as well.  It seems that the way they hold usually has the pad holder meeting the punch half way rather than allowing the punch to come to the target.  This does not allow the punch to fully extend and as such, does not allow the puncher to execute with proper form and technique to create power.  This is not to say that this way of pad holding does not have its place, I just think that when this is the only way a pad holder holds for a fighte (which it seems to be from the footage of FM)r, that it can aid in the development of bad habits (less power, not developing range, etc.)

Woof!

Gruhn

Most boxing gyms I've been to the mitt holders attack the punchers to develop timing, they don't allow the mitts to extend the fighter's arms causing them to overreach - because they want the fighter to catch the opponent during movement.

They have so many other tools to use for power work, and a guy holding the mitts for a world class boxer is really asking for their hands to be damaged if they work power with them for a long amount of time. Just look at Hatton's trainer's index finger.

When I was training at a boxing gym as a teen, a guy came to visit that the other old guys knew - he was one of Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini's trainers. He showed us his fingers which were crushed from such mitt power drills. He especially didn't like the old style mitts where at a certain angle a punch just crushes one finger joint into the other.

I'm positive Mayweather is doing some power work, but we also have to consider that he did state he's having hand issues in one episode and they always have  the HBO cams off at a certain stage in his workout.

I'd like to see what Hatton does to fine tune his skills beyond what HBO has shown so far as well. I like that beam he jumps back and forth on.

--Rafael--
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« Reply #74 on: December 06, 2007, 11:46:53 PM »

Just saw Yuri Foreman totally out box Andrey Tsurakan tonight on Vs. It was a great fight. Yuri foreman is a top notch boxer.
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« Reply #75 on: December 09, 2007, 08:59:01 PM »

Different tune after the fight, it seems those "tippy tappy" drills have a significant purpose when the fighter utilizes them correctly:

"I felt alright tonight, really big and strong but I left myself open. He's better inside than I thought, with all the elbows and shoulders and forearms he used," said Hatton after the fight. "I didn't quite stick to my game-plan. He's not the biggest welterweight I've fought but he was very strong. I don't think he was the hardest puncher tonight but he was a lot more clever than I expected. I'll be back, don't worry." Ricky Hatton, Post Fight

Here's the clip where Hatton mocks the "tippy tappy" mitt drills:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QevWKNM9JWY

Look at :13 seconds into the clip.

Mayweather won by KO in round ten.
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« Reply #76 on: September 26, 2008, 01:20:23 AM »

At the age of 35, Ricardo "El Matador" Mayorga is making the most unlikely comeback in boxing. But don't tell the Surgeon General. He's doing it while smoking a pack a day.

In one of the planet's most physically demanding sports, Mr. Mayorga has managed to win a world championship and stay in the top ranks for a decade. Tomorrow night, he's scheduled to fight former world champion Shane Mosley in a bout that could rekindle his title hopes or send him into retirement. But the most remarkable thing about this boxer from Nicaragua is that he has risen to the top of his sport while sucking down enough cigarette smoke to kill a rhinoceros. He has little interest in nutrition or scientific training. He's never been hooked up to a Vo2 Max machine and he turns down the vitamin B12 shots offered by his coach, Rigoberto Garibaldi. "No scientist would be able to figure out what makes him work," says Mr. Garibaldi.

In a sports world dominated by athletes obsessed with calibrating their bodies to a precise degree, Mr. Mayorga has spent his entire career doing the opposite -- pumping himself full of stuff that should be slowing him down. While training in Florida for tomorrow's fight at the Home Depot Center in Carson, Calif., Mr. Mayorga woke up at dawn every morning and ran three miles at speeds that, according to his trainer, would make any other boxer pass out -- let alone one who smoked. "It doesn't affect him at all," Mr. Garibaldi says.

After lunch, Mr. Mayorga would drive to a small gym at an office park in the Miami suburb of Coconut Creek to work on shadowboxing, punching mitts and working the heavy bag. In the late afternoons, he sometimes added another workout of weights or more running. At the end of the day, he's so tired he can barely move. But this grueling ritual is frequently punctuated by an astonishing sight: Mr. Mayorga, still dressed in his sweaty workout clothes, lighting up a cigarette.

WSJ's Reed Albergotti visits "El Matador." (Sept. 26)

After one grueling workout last month in Florida, he toweled off and walked outside the gym. His coach handed him some fresh fruit to eat for recovery and an assistant produced a lighter. Soon Mr. Mayorga was taking a deep drag from a Marlboro, looking relieved and relaxed. "I've been smoking since I was 13," he said. "It seems to be working for me, so why stop?"

Mr. Mayorga's assistant, Anthony Gonzalez, says that when the boxer isn't training, he smokes as many as three packs, or 60 cigarettes, a day.

High-level trainers say that despite what you might think, an occasional cigarette is relatively normal for pro athletes, especially in Europe, where athletes smoke the way NFL linemen might sneak Big Macs into training camp. French soccer superstar Zinedine Zidane was photographed sneaking a cigarette during the 2006 World Cup. One of the greatest cyclists of all time, Belgian Eddy Merckx, smoked occasionally. And a 2003 survey showed about 10% of Major League Baseball players admitted using cigarettes.

Mark Verstegen, the founder of the Arizona-based sports-training facility Athletes Performance, says there is no question that smoking hurts athletic performance. When some of the elite athletes he's worked with have quit smoking, he says, they've seen immediate gains in physiological markers like oxygen uptake, muscle fatigue and overall speed. The act of smoking, he says, "mucks up the whole system."
[Ricardo Mayorga] John Loomis for The Wall Street Journal

Ricardo Mayorga

Several studies performed on athletes back up these observations. In 1985, researchers at the University of California at Los Angeles ran nine male subjects to the point of exhaustion -- some after smoking three cigarettes and some without smoking at all. They found the smokers were less able to get oxygen to their muscles and had higher heart rates. A study concluded last year at Denmark's Copenhagen Muscle Research Center found that muscle protein synthesis, which is essential for athletes, was substantially lower in a group of smokers than a group of nonsmokers.

Terry Conway, a public-health researcher at San Diego State University, says that while tobacco smoke does not do elite athletes any favors, it may not slow them down enough to make a big difference. "They can tolerate assaults to their body because they are genetically gifted," she says.

Mr. Mayorga says his first taste of boxing came as a boy on the streets of Managua. As a junior boxer, he won Nicaragua's national championship and a Central American Golden Gloves title before turning pro in 1993. His heyday in the ring came in 2002 and 2003 when he won three welterweight title matches -- beating the top-ranked and heavily favored Andrew Lewis by technical knockout and winning both the WBA and WBC welterweight titles by beating reigning-champion Vernon Forrest twice. He fell just short of winning the undisputed welterweight title in 2003, but collected the super welterweight crown in 2005.

The low point of Mr. Mayorga's career came in 2006 when Oscar De La Hoya pummeled him so badly the official stopped the fight in the sixth round. Though he never officially retired, he didn't fight again for almost two years.

As he ascended in boxing, Mr. Mayorga says he originally tried to hide his smoking habit for fear that promoters would scold him. After beating Mr. Lewis in 2002, Mr. Mayorga was sitting in the training room with his coach and smoking a cigarette when Alan Hopper, a publicist for promoter Don King, walked in. His coach frantically grabbed the cigarette and attempted to put it out, but instead of lecturing the fighter, Mr. Hopper told him to light up another one and found him a bottle of beer to take to the press conference. When Mr. Mayorga started taking questions from the media while drinking and smoking, an image was born.

Mr. Mayorga's punching power and his unrestrained bravado quickly made him a cult figure in boxing. Earlier in his career, his signature move was to allow his opponent to take a free punch at his head. He once offered an opponent a job sweeping his floors and threatened to send another opponent to heaven to meet his deceased mother. In 2003, he posed on the cover of the boxing magazine The Ring in his gloves and trunks with a cigarette dangling from his lips.

Mr. Mayorga's current comeback began in November when he upset Fernando Vargas in 12 rounds, bringing his career record to 28-6-1 and earning him a fight with Mr. Mosley, 37, who is also looking to rekindle his title hopes. Mr. Mosley, 44-5, is best known for giving Mr. De La Hoya two of his five career losses. At press time, he was the clear favorite. The fight will be televised on HBO.

When asked if he would ever smoke, Mr. Mosley laughed and said no. He has been training at his high-altitude home in Big Bear, Calif., running up and down hills, lifting weights and carefully monitoring his diet. He said he even makes his mother go outside when she smokes. Mr. Mayorga says training at altitude won't help his opponent in the ring. "He can go to the North Pole or the Amazon, the result's going to be the same. I'm going to win the fight."

At the prefight press conference in Los Angeles, Mr. Mayorga, dressed in a suit, lit a cigarette and even offered one to Mr. Mosley. "He can smoke a cigarette when he loses," Mr. Mosley says. "I'm going to destroy him in five rounds or less."
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Ronin
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« Reply #77 on: September 26, 2008, 10:04:40 AM »

Different tune after the fight, it seems those "tippy tappy" drills have a significant purpose when the fighter utilizes them correctly:

"I felt alright tonight, really big and strong but I left myself open. He's better inside than I thought, with all the elbows and shoulders and forearms he used," said Hatton after the fight. "I didn't quite stick to my game-plan. He's not the biggest welterweight I've fought but he was very strong. I don't think he was the hardest puncher tonight but he was a lot more clever than I expected. I'll be back, don't worry." Ricky Hatton, Post Fight

Here's the clip where Hatton mocks the "tippy tappy" mitt drills:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QevWKNM9JWY

Look at :13 seconds into the clip.

Mayweather won by KO in round ten.


Some fighters are great IN SPITE of what they do, not because of it.
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« Reply #78 on: November 22, 2008, 09:31:31 PM »

Some wonderful examples of Kali Tudo's Triggonomics tonight by Kirkland on HBO right now.  Kirkland is also doing an awesome job using angles and head movement. 

I'm looking forward to Hatton!
« Last Edit: November 22, 2008, 09:35:20 PM by ryangruhn » Logged

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« Reply #79 on: November 23, 2008, 06:36:26 PM »

Just getting back from a weekend with my son.  What happened?
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« Reply #80 on: November 25, 2008, 02:25:01 PM »


Some fighters are great IN SPITE of what they do, not because of it.


That's true, but this wasn't the case.

Note that Hatton who ridiculed Mayweather's training, swallowed his pride enough to hire Mayweather senior as his trainer.
He won his recent fight by totally dominating his opponent. Better body positioning, better reactions inside. He even stated how some of his old habits were still exposing him to punches.




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--Rafael--
"..awaken your consciousness of our past, already effaced from our memory, and to rectify what has been falsified and slandered."
Jose Rizal, from his 1889 essay, ' To The Filipinos '
Ronin
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« Reply #81 on: November 26, 2008, 07:13:16 AM »


Some fighters are great IN SPITE of what they do, not because of it.


That's true, but this wasn't the case.

Note that Hatton who ridiculed Mayweather's training, swallowed his pride enough to hire Mayweather senior as his trainer.
He won his recent fight by totally dominating his opponent. Better body positioning, better reactions inside. He even stated how some of his old habits were still exposing him to punches.






I have never and will never be, a fan of "tippy-tappy" pad work.
Regardless of who does it and how great a fighter they may be.
Fact is Mayweather is a freak, he would probably be just as good a boxer if he did pad work on one leg while wearing garters.
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matinik
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« Reply #82 on: November 27, 2008, 11:50:35 PM »

checked out HBO's 24/7 de la hoya/pacquiao fight promo recently and in one episode entitled "stick training", it had
manny being lightly tapped quickly all over the  abs and arms with a yantok (looks like  hardwood), with
manny saying "it's mental training". it looks similar to some chinese system hard chi gong regimen.
hope he's using some dit da jow afterwards grin.
the fight it self should be interesting too. i enjoyed seeing oscar in his heyday, but manny might be
too fast and too young for him now. any thoughts?

matinik
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« Reply #83 on: November 28, 2008, 08:55:37 AM »


Some fighters are great IN SPITE of what they do, not because of it.


That's true, but this wasn't the case.

Note that Hatton who ridiculed Mayweather's training, swallowed his pride enough to hire Mayweather senior as his trainer.
He won his recent fight by totally dominating his opponent. Better body positioning, better reactions inside. He even stated how some of his old habits were still exposing him to punches.

Mayweather senior hasn't coached or cornered Jr. for a decent number of years.  From what I gather father and son have never been further apart.
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« Reply #84 on: December 06, 2008, 11:09:10 PM »

Dela Hoya / Pacquiao wow...what a shut out.
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« Reply #85 on: December 06, 2008, 11:49:52 PM »

So, who won?
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matinik
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« Reply #86 on: December 07, 2008, 01:02:51 AM »

manny won by tko! oscar threw in the towel on the eight!
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« Reply #87 on: December 07, 2008, 09:56:02 AM »

What a fight.  Manny ate him up all night with the false lead jab.  Kept to the outside and Oscar didn't know what to do.
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« Reply #88 on: December 07, 2008, 08:40:24 PM »

wow. I had Oscar going into the fight. Pac was great. good movement, he controlled the range really well.
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Sun_Helmet
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« Reply #89 on: December 14, 2008, 09:53:50 AM »

Mayweather senior hasn't coached or cornered Jr. for a decent number of years.  From what I gather father and son have never been further apart.

That was supposedly over a personal issue though, not a stylistic or training one.




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Jose Rizal, from his 1889 essay, ' To The Filipinos '
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« Reply #90 on: December 14, 2008, 10:02:41 AM »


I have never and will never be, a fan of "tippy-tappy" pad work.
Regardless of who does it and how great a fighter they may be.
Fact is Mayweather is a freak, he would probably be just as good a boxer if he did pad work on one leg while wearing garters.


You have to consider that this was still a TV show made to entertain and entice viewers to watch the fight.
I doubt that Mayweather ONLY trains one way with the mitts.

What Hatton and others seemed to fixate on is a fragment of his mitt training, which looked like a drill to enhance a certain portion of quick twitch attributes.
If you put it in context, that's like watching one clip of an FMA guy doing hubad and saying that drill has no use.
It only has no use if the person drilling and instructing has no purpose but to do the patterns and does not complement it with power or other training that applies to the whole picture.

I mean, do we really all believe that Mayweather only does one kind of mitt work drill?
That's the tv producers doing their thing, editing it to create  it a style over substance show.



« Last Edit: December 14, 2008, 10:06:10 AM by Sun_Helmet » Logged

--Rafael--
"..awaken your consciousness of our past, already effaced from our memory, and to rectify what has been falsified and slandered."
Jose Rizal, from his 1889 essay, ' To The Filipinos '
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« Reply #91 on: December 14, 2008, 10:17:10 AM »

De La Hoya must have wondered why his new found coaches were just now informing him that Manny was much faster between round four and five.
They didn't have an answer to the style of Manny, who was basically doing a half step stutter to ease into range then shooting the left between the gloves, posting his right forearm on Oscar when he tried to pivot back into range and zoning out to reset the same sequence.

Also, thought it was interesting that De La Hoya predicted he would take Manny's will away from him and the bright lights and chaos of a big fight in Vegas would overwhelm the Filipino fighter. ( Roy Jones said the same thing - always a bad sign when the aging fighter uses this line.)

It is obvious Oscar has never been to Manila or seen the chaos of a Filipino market... Las Vegas has less bells and whistles than a single jeepney there. Smiley

Hatton will have a bigger problem unless he hurts Manny early.


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--Rafael--
"..awaken your consciousness of our past, already effaced from our memory, and to rectify what has been falsified and slandered."
Jose Rizal, from his 1889 essay, ' To The Filipinos '
maija
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Posts: 299


« Reply #92 on: December 15, 2008, 10:50:05 AM »

Ronin said:
[/quote]

I have never and will never be, a fan of "tippy-tappy" pad work.
Regardless of who does it and how great a fighter they may be.
Fact is Mayweather is a freak, he would probably be just as good a boxer if he did pad work on one leg while wearing garters.

[/quote]

Why are you against "Tippy-tappy drills" for boxing?
Why do you think Mayweather spends/wastes time on them?
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It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
peregrine
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« Reply #93 on: December 15, 2008, 07:47:52 PM »

Ronin said:

I have never and will never be, a fan of "tippy-tappy" pad work.
Regardless of who does it and how great a fighter they may be.
Fact is Mayweather is a freak, he would probably be just as good a boxer if he did pad work on one leg while wearing garters.

[/quote]

Why are you against "Tippy-tappy drills" for boxing?
Why do you think Mayweather spends/wastes time on them?
[/quote]

I can see tip tappy drills being an integral part in a fighters regime. They can be correctly used as a piece of an entire training system. Unfortuantely some people and systems trake thm as a stand alone.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #94 on: December 20, 2008, 07:58:55 AM »

The Filipino whose fists stop wars
"Don't tell God you have a big problem. Tell your problem you have a big God,” champ tells fans.
The boxing world is in shock after the legendary Mexican Oscar de la Hoya was sent into retirement by Filipino Manny Pacquiao on December 6 in Las Vegas.
Manny Pacquiao is undoubtedly the Philippines’ most popular sports icon. He’s a simple guy of extraordinary grit. Glorious in his bouts, he remains humble with his feet firmly planted on the ground. In his most recent match, which kept millions of Filipinos all over the world glued to their radios or TV screens, he emerged as the winner against the much touted “golden boy” Oscar de la Joya in an eight-round TKO decision.

The good-natured Pacquiao shows his mettle even inside the ring. Recah Trinidad, a Philippine Daily Inquirer (PDI) columnist, wrote: “How Pacquiao lent boxing a warm human touch was no coincidence. In fact, Pacquiao would later bare that he often took pity on the helpless De La Hoya. After cornering and shaking up De La Hoya, Pacquiao would often stall in his offensive. Of course, this was not out of a sudden attack of compassion and humility.”

Pacquiao’s matches are surely a diversion to many people, not just Filipinos. His bouts relieve the stress of a faltering economy and provide national entertainment on a humdrum weekend. They have even led to truces among warring camps and a drop in crime rate, even as rebels and thieves are kept off the streets to catch a glimpse of his exciting matches. Apparently Eid Kabalu, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front civil-military affairs chief, has been known to say, “If Manny fights every day, guns will always be silent.”

The 29-year-old Pacquiao is an interesting character. In the tough world of boxing, you see this man publicly acknowledging that among his weapons are absolute faith in God and prayer. He hangs a rosary around his neck just before a match, and he’s not shy about it. As soon as he steps into the boxing ring, he kneels in deep prayer in one corner. Meanwhile, thousands of kilometers away in General Santos City, he’s supported by a pious mother who spends hours praying before an image of the Blessed Virgin Mary and Santo Nino (Holy Child Jesus) for the success of her son. After each victorious bout, an assistant immediately hops into the ring to hang once more the same holy rosary around Manny’s neck.

Returning to the Philippines after his victorious dream match, he went to the popular Black Nazarene Church in Manila. In a blog posted by Izah Morales in the PDI, she recalled: “After priest gave his final blessings, Pacquiao was asked to give a message to the people. During his message, Pacquiao thanked the people and attributed his success to God. He talked about the criticisms he got from some sportswriters before his bout with Oscar de la Hoya. But he said he did not lose hope as he kept his faith in God.

“Pacquiao told the crowd, ‘Don't tell God that [you] have a big problem. ut tell your problem [that you] have a big God.’”

It said that a boxer’s motto is “It’s better to give than to receive.” But Pacquaio goes beyond that quip. It was reported that before his “dream match” with de la Joya, he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars for tickets to be distributed among his friends and supporters. For him, it was a way of giving back. Some labeled it as superstition. But Pacquiao has that penchant for sharing his blessings with others. At the end of his match he was quoted saying, “I’m just happy that I made a lot of people happy.”

Pacquiao was tempted to venture into politics last year when he ran for a seat in Congress. He was soundly defeated, much to the delight of his fans, who wanted him to stay in the ring.

A recent PDI editorial warned Pacquiao against pursuing further political ambitions: “Pacquiao's achievements have been fully his own, as far as boxing is concerned. His becoming a sports hero has led not only to riches, but also has won him the incomparable affections of an entire nation. That success and that affection are his because of how he unites a nation otherwise divided and discouraged by politics.

“No one can doubt that Pacquiao is looking for a career that will not just give meaning to his life after boxing, but which will also allow him to help others as so many have helped him rise from rags to riches through sports. The question is not whether he can or should try to be a force for public good, but whether the public good is served by his entering politics.

“His dogged determination, his dedication to his sport, his discipline and his ability to improve himself, all the while maintaining a sunny disposition and picking no quarrels with people outside the boxing ring, suggest to us that the greatest good for the greatest number lies in Pacquiao staying out of the political arena. He is a political force by sheer force of being who he is-the man who unites-and staying that way.”

The good-tempered, level-headed Pacquiao is no Mike Tyson. He is unlikely to end up like many other boxers: broke, cheated, disgraced or punch-drunk. But he should stay out of politics. The punches thrown in political shadow boxing are more vicious than any he will ever face in the ring.

Zen Udani is Assistant Professor of Management at the University of Macau.
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Sun_Helmet
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« Reply #95 on: December 20, 2008, 05:29:04 PM »

DIAZ Interview

This is the HBO interview with Diaz after the fight. I like the comment around the 1:15 mark.
"I thought he had a knife with though - I thought he had a blade."

I like his honesty and acceptance in defeat.
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--Rafael--
"..awaken your consciousness of our past, already effaced from our memory, and to rectify what has been falsified and slandered."
Jose Rizal, from his 1889 essay, ' To The Filipinos '
Guard Dog
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Posts: 654


« Reply #96 on: December 20, 2008, 06:29:37 PM »

It's interesting because the "style" is a well developed game plan which is spelled out in the DBMA Kali Tudo set.  I'm a huge fan of this material as it has led many of my fighters to victories over very formidable opponents.  Triggonomics (outside footwork) is the name of the game:











(from another forum)
Sugar Ray eats this Cuban guy alive for the 1976 Gold Medal.

1.)Always stays outside the Cuban's lead. Works his jab and jab-hook combos. Parry's the jab and puts a cross down the middle.

2.) When he moves right, He never moves into the cross, always laterally with his right hand up.

3.) His footwork is amazing. He does a great little move that the Cuban never catches. He takes one step to his right and then rolls left, getting the Cuban to "bite" on the right step and throw the left cross. Classic. A blueprint for righties everywhere.
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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
Guro / DBMAA Business Director
Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
"Smuggling Concepts Across the Frontiers of Style”
ryan@dogbrothers.com | www.dogbrothers.com
Ronin
Frequent Poster
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Posts: 67


« Reply #97 on: December 22, 2008, 07:43:04 AM »

Ronin said:

I have never and will never be, a fan of "tippy-tappy" pad work.
Regardless of who does it and how great a fighter they may be.
Fact is Mayweather is a freak, he would probably be just as good a boxer if he did pad work on one leg while wearing garters.

[/quote]

Why are you against "Tippy-tappy drills" for boxing?
Why do you think Mayweather spends/wastes time on them?
[/quote]


I am a big believer in specificity and also a believer in "maximum damage with minimal effort", I don't think those drills fall into those categories.
I like how Tyson did his mitts.
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Ronin
Frequent Poster
**
Posts: 67


« Reply #98 on: December 22, 2008, 07:46:44 AM »

The Filipino whose fists stop wars
"Don't tell God you have a big problem. Tell your problem you have a big God,” champ tells fans.
The boxing world is in shock after the legendary Mexican Oscar de la Hoya was sent into retirement by Filipino Manny Pacquiao on December 6 in Las Vegas.
Manny Pacquiao is undoubtedly the Philippines’ most popular sports icon. He’s a simple guy of extraordinary grit. Glorious in his bouts, he remains humble with his feet firmly planted on the ground. In his most recent match, which kept millions of Filipinos all over the world glued to their radios or TV screens, he emerged as the winner against the much touted “golden boy” Oscar de la Joya in an eight-round TKO decision.

The good-natured Pacquiao shows his mettle even inside the ring. Recah Trinidad, a Philippine Daily Inquirer (PDI) columnist, wrote: “How Pacquiao lent boxing a warm human touch was no coincidence. In fact, Pacquiao would later bare that he often took pity on the helpless De La Hoya. After cornering and shaking up De La Hoya, Pacquiao would often stall in his offensive. Of course, this was not out of a sudden attack of compassion and humility.”

Pacquiao’s matches are surely a diversion to many people, not just Filipinos. His bouts relieve the stress of a faltering economy and provide national entertainment on a humdrum weekend. They have even led to truces among warring camps and a drop in crime rate, even as rebels and thieves are kept off the streets to catch a glimpse of his exciting matches. Apparently Eid Kabalu, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front civil-military affairs chief, has been known to say, “If Manny fights every day, guns will always be silent.”

The 29-year-old Pacquiao is an interesting character. In the tough world of boxing, you see this man publicly acknowledging that among his weapons are absolute faith in God and prayer. He hangs a rosary around his neck just before a match, and he’s not shy about it. As soon as he steps into the boxing ring, he kneels in deep prayer in one corner. Meanwhile, thousands of kilometers away in General Santos City, he’s supported by a pious mother who spends hours praying before an image of the Blessed Virgin Mary and Santo Nino (Holy Child Jesus) for the success of her son. After each victorious bout, an assistant immediately hops into the ring to hang once more the same holy rosary around Manny’s neck.

Returning to the Philippines after his victorious dream match, he went to the popular Black Nazarene Church in Manila. In a blog posted by Izah Morales in the PDI, she recalled: “After priest gave his final blessings, Pacquiao was asked to give a message to the people. During his message, Pacquiao thanked the people and attributed his success to God. He talked about the criticisms he got from some sportswriters before his bout with Oscar de la Hoya. But he said he did not lose hope as he kept his faith in God.

“Pacquiao told the crowd, ‘Don't tell God that [you] have a big problem. ut tell your problem [that you] have a big God.’”

It said that a boxer’s motto is “It’s better to give than to receive.” But Pacquaio goes beyond that quip. It was reported that before his “dream match” with de la Joya, he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars for tickets to be distributed among his friends and supporters. For him, it was a way of giving back. Some labeled it as superstition. But Pacquiao has that penchant for sharing his blessings with others. At the end of his match he was quoted saying, “I’m just happy that I made a lot of people happy.”

Pacquiao was tempted to venture into politics last year when he ran for a seat in Congress. He was soundly defeated, much to the delight of his fans, who wanted him to stay in the ring.

A recent PDI editorial warned Pacquiao against pursuing further political ambitions: “Pacquiao's achievements have been fully his own, as far as boxing is concerned. His becoming a sports hero has led not only to riches, but also has won him the incomparable affections of an entire nation. That success and that affection are his because of how he unites a nation otherwise divided and discouraged by politics.

“No one can doubt that Pacquiao is looking for a career that will not just give meaning to his life after boxing, but which will also allow him to help others as so many have helped him rise from rags to riches through sports. The question is not whether he can or should try to be a force for public good, but whether the public good is served by his entering politics.

“His dogged determination, his dedication to his sport, his discipline and his ability to improve himself, all the while maintaining a sunny disposition and picking no quarrels with people outside the boxing ring, suggest to us that the greatest good for the greatest number lies in Pacquiao staying out of the political arena. He is a political force by sheer force of being who he is-the man who unites-and staying that way.”

The good-tempered, level-headed Pacquiao is no Mike Tyson. He is unlikely to end up like many other boxers: broke, cheated, disgraced or punch-drunk. But he should stay out of politics. The punches thrown in political shadow boxing are more vicious than any he will ever face in the ring.

Zen Udani is Assistant Professor of Management at the University of Macau.



I have never been a huge fan of mixing religion with fighting, but to each their own I guess.
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maija
Power User
***
Posts: 299


« Reply #99 on: December 22, 2008, 06:42:54 PM »

@Ronin,
Mayweather has very good timing, finds good openings, plays range very well and has great body angles and evasive skills .... In the system of eskrima I study (Visayan Corto Kadena), these skills are what our, so called, 'TippyTappy' drills develop. Perhaps for him also .....?
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It will seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first.
Miyamoto Musashi.
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