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Author Topic: Understanding what I see online  (Read 1676 times)
ziggybob
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Posts: 8


« on: July 22, 2004, 01:50:13 AM »

Hello and glad to be here.

I would like to ask some questions without offending anybody. Please consider my ignorance of FMA with the exception of what I have been able to learn from DB tape series 1 and 2. I have been looking for information online for FMA material and ran across some vid's of Grandmaster Cabales doing what looked like drills with another gentleman. In these drills and in a follow up book I purchased, I noticed that his grip on a few of his blocks looked as though he released all fingers and was holding the stick at the meaty part where the thumb and index finger meet. The reason I say these looked like drills was partially due to the grip and the power behind the strikes. However, the book clearly shows the same technique used for actual blocks and counters.

I realize I may not be seeing the entire picture but in my perception of what I saw, I:

1. Understood this grip to be a "normal block" and not something for drilling only.
2. Don't understand how control of the stick could be maintained while blocking even a mid power strike.

My questions are:
1. Was stickfighting a training tool for later works with blades?
2. Is our/my focus on power making me miss something?
3. Are these wrist only strikes such a real threat?
   (I do train with very minimal protection and have been on the recieving ends of many types of strikes. In fact, we were actually hitting each other in different places to see the effectiveness of the wrist/flip strikes and was surprised at the ineffectiveness that OUR strikes had on each other.)
4. Why does this information that is being taught seem so far away from what I think a real fight with sticks would be?
5. Is Stickfighting different than fighting with sticks and is Kali so different from stickfighting? (I realize that Kali is much more than combat with sticks but I hope you understand my meaning)

Please help point me in the right direction because I am honestly very confused as to what is FMA, WEKAF, Stickfighing, and the direction I want to go. I am looking for reality and belive the Dog Brothers to be about as real as it gets. I am baffled by such opposing styles.

Thanks so much and sorry in advance for any hard feelings I caused because of the example I used. I certainly don't place my opinion or goals above anybody elses.


Best regards,

Robert Marlow

Dogs bite hard!!!
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Crafty_Dog
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Posts: 31839


« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2004, 12:39:27 PM »

Woof Ziggy Bob:

I suspect that the lack of answers to your questions may be because that people often try to avoid questions that call for assessing the specific merits/drawbacks of a particular style.

That said, I'll take a brief nip at your questions.


"1. Understood this grip to be a "normal block" and not something for drilling only.
2. Don't understand how control of the stick could be maintained while blocking even a mid power strike."

Differences of opinion are common in the martial arts and especially so in the FMA! You are not the only person to have this thought/question.  In my experience it is often a good idea to remember that different styles/systems are intended for different paradigms of fighting.  

"My questions are:
1. Was stickfighting a training tool for later works with blades?"

In some systems, the answer is yes and in others the answer is no.
 
"2. Is our/my focus on power making me miss something?"

We too tend towards the power-crazed end of the spectrum.  I find it a good idea for me to remember that blades require much less power and that some striking tools are of a nature that require less body mechanics.  For example a short metal bar, (especially if striking surface is shaped like a blade or a triangle) intended for concealment may have considerable striking power with the snapping motion you question.
 
"3. Are these wrist only strikes such a real threat?
(I do train with very minimal protection and have been on the recieving ends of many types of strikes. In fact, we were actually hitting each other in different places to see the effectiveness of the wrist/flip strikes and was surprised at the ineffectiveness that OUR strikes had on each other.)"

See my answer to the previous question.  I do agree that it is good to test things as you seem to be doing.

"4. Why does this information that is being taught seem so far away from what I think a real fight with sticks would be?"

Perhaps because you have a different paradigm in mind?

"5. Is Stickfighting different than fighting with sticks and is Kali so different from stickfighting? (I realize that Kali is much more than combat with sticks but I hope you understand my meaning."

The FMA are notorious for disputes of near-theological intensity over matters of terminology.  Indeed, I often joke that consistent use of terminology between systems violates the traditions of the FMA.  

HTH a bit-- sorry I cannot be more definitive in my answers.

Woof,
Crafty Dog
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ziggybob
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Posts: 8


« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2004, 10:49:47 AM »

Mr. Denny,

I wanted to thank you for your reply. Great points that apply to more than just these few questions. I guess that my "truth" is indeed just that, mine. Form follows function and I suppose that applies to more than just engineering and design.

Thank you again for words of wisdom and a point in the right direction.

Learning,

ziggybob
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2004, 01:40:44 PM »

ziggy bob,

 the block you are talking about is called a shoulder block. there is a lot of body angling involved and the check hand does just as much work as the stick. it's used agaisnt a down ward back hand at close range, and as opposed to a force on force block the opponents weapon slides down your stick and away from you.
 cabales serrada is a close range blade art. those wristy hits you mentioned actually has alot of hip torque behind them. remeber that rattan is for training and kamagong or bahi for fighting. also todays hardwoods are an asp baton.
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