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Author Topic: Marine Charged With Murder in Iraq Deaths  (Read 2166 times)
Russ
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« on: February 15, 2005, 08:57:07 AM »

This is total bs!  A soldier being charged with murder during a combat operation!

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_marine_021205,00.html

From: Talbott 1ST Lt

go google - check out ilario pantano marine - #1 guy in IOC class after me.
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rogt
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2005, 09:06:59 PM »

Hmm...  I have no problem finding article after article that says what an all-around great guy Pantano is, what a bad precendent it sets for a combat Marine to be charged with murder, as well as presenting some negative characterizations of his accuser, but none that present any real details about the incident.

Obviously the guy is innocent until proven guilty, but I can't imagine why the Marines would prosecute one of their own for murder (during combat no less) without some reason to believe that the charges may have merit.  It's possible that Pantano killed those two Iraqis because of something they witnessed.  I'm interested in hearing exactly what his (supposedly "disgruntled") accuser claims happened.

Rog
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2005, 10:55:58 AM »

This is what I found on the Warriortalk forum:
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AmericanWarrior  
Senior Member   Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 592  
 
 Marine charged killing of bad guys/Support him Link inside

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He is the kind of Marine officer who seems to come off the assembly line, so patriotic that he rejoined the Corps after September 11 and went to Iraq to kill terrorists.
That is why it is so hard for 2nd Lt. Ilario Pantano and his family to understand how the Marine Corps could call the platoon leader a murderer. He escaped death in Iraq despite daily patrols and raids in the notorious Sunni Triangle.

Back home at Camp Lejeune, N.C., Lt. Pantano, 33, found out the Corps has filed two premeditated murder charges for shooting two Iraqi insurgents in a dusty, terrorist-infested town near Baghdad. If convicted at a court-martial, he would face the death penalty.
"He is a young, intelligent, charismatic Marine officer and all that that entails," states his mother, Merry K. Gregory Pantano, a New York literary agent, on a Web site she created to raise defense funds. "And yet he is incomprehensibly charged with heinous crimes related to a dangerous military operation that took place in 'the triangle of death.' "
To Lt. Pantano, the two Iraqis who came toward him despite his order in Arabic to stop were mortal enemies. Booby-trapped suicide bombers are killing Iraqis by the score and some have even feigned surrender in order to get close to U.S. soldiers. But the Corps views it as murder and filed charges against him Feb. 1.
The case, announced at Camp Lejeune last week, is already driving passions among Marines who know that a split-second delay in defending oneself can result in death.

"Let's stand together and tell our government that it cannot send our boys to the depths of hell and not expect them to see fire and brimstone," said an e-mailer to Mrs. Pantano's site, DefendtheDefenders.org. "It's called war. Sad, dark, horrible, tragic and, in death, permanent."
Lt. Pantano has retained Charles Gittins, a Marine reserve officer and one of the country's most prominent military defense attorneys.
Mr. Gittins said his client reported the shootings to superiors and remained in combat for weeks afterward. It was not until an enlisted man, whom Mr. Gittins described as "disgruntled" after being relieved from two jobs, complained to commanders that an investigation began.

"Lt. Pantano told everyone who needed to know," Mr. Gittins said. "He told them what he did and why he did it. After that, he served three months in combat. Nobody had any problem with it."
The Corps has presented Lt. Pantano with a document known as a "charge sheet" that officially charges him with two counts of murder.
Despite this, a Marine spokesman at Camp Lejeune said the officer had not yet been accused.  Mr. Gittins on Saturday sent a letter to the base's commanding general demanding that he fire the public affairs officer for putting out erroneous information.

Lt. Pantano, raised in the Hell's Kitchen neighborhood of Manhattan, had already served his country as an enlisted Marine when al Qaeda struck the World Trade Center. He eventually rejoined, graduating from officer training at Quantico, Va., and earning a commission.
The married father of two sons took a hefty pay cut, going from the $100,000 salary of a New York stock broker and TV producer, to the pay of a Marine second lieutenant.
"If he has a fault," says his mother on the site, "it is that he is too idealistic and puts moral responsibility and duty to his country and his men before anything else."
Lt. Pantano arrived in Iraq in March 2004, leading a quick-reaction platoon, the kind of unit that is crucial to the U.S. military in its battle against insurgents. Such units receive intelligence reports on hide-outs and arms caches, and must move quickly before the enemy can escape.

"He was in combat every day," Mr. Gittins said. "They were taking serious casualties. In the three weeks before [the shootings] happened, there were over 1,000 [dead and wounded] in his area of operation."
On April 15, commanders dispatched Lt. Pantano's men to a house believed to hold insurgents and weapons. The Marines found bomb-making equipment and were removing it when two Iraqis tried to speed away in a sport utility vehicle, according to Lt. Pantano's account.
The Marines stopped the SUV by shooting out the tires, apprehended the two and placed them in flexible handcuffs. After setting up a security perimeter, Lt. Pantano took off the cuffs and had the two search the vehicle as he supervised. If it was booby-trapped, the Iraqis, not Marines, would pay the price.

It was at this point that the Iraqis stopped searching and moved quickly toward Lt. Pantano.
"They start talking in Arabic and turn toward him as if they are going to rush him," Mr. Gittins said. "He says, 'stop.' They don't stop and he kills them. He didn't know what they were doing but they weren't listening to him. He was in fear of his life and he killed them."
The lawyer said it turned out that the men were unarmed and there were no weapons in the SUV.
"They were from a town that was really bad in terms of the insurgency," he said.

Marine Corps prosecutors added two other charges that seem to Lt. Pantano's supporters to be piling on. The Corps charged him with destruction of property for slashing the vehicle tires so they could not be repaired.
And, Mr. Gittins said, he was charged with desecration for posting a sign in English on the SUV that said, "No better friend. No worse enemy" ? the slogan for the Iraq war of the 1st Marine Division's commander, Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis.
Gen. Mattis got in hot water earlier this month when he said at a conference that "it's fun to shoot some people," referring to Islamic militants.

From

This is bullshit!!

You can support him here:

http://www.defendthedefenders.org/
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  #2       Yesterday, 05:52 PM  
Timbers  
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The Pantano case is "the Big One" for US forces in Iraq.

Neither Lt Pantano nor the Navy Department are backing down and both sides are rallying supporters.

Lt Pantano is going to testify under oath that he shot to death two hostiles in a combat zone and did so in immediate fear for his life and the lives of the men under his command. The facts that the two Iraqis were found in a compound deemed to be in hostile hands and found to house bomb-making equipement are not in dispute. The fact that the two Iraqis were found later to be unarmed and carrying no weapons in their vehicle is also established. The sole point of legal contention is the reasonable nature of Lt Pantano's belief that the two Iraqis were charging him and presenting a clear and present danger. The court martial, if there is one, will be purely a matter of second guessing an officer's actions in battle. The second guessing will be done by the jury based on conflicting testimony of Lt Pantano's subordinates.

The case, which ever way it goes, will have a major impact on how company-grade officers handle orders to secure areas after full-scale combat has ceased. If Pantano wins, Marine NCO's and junior officers will continue to act aggressively in defending their troops' lives while also acting aggressively to interdict suspected hostiles. If Pantano loses, the ripple effect is going to spread out to all the US forces, except (maybe) SOCOM. Officers and NCO's will begin to "pull back" from confrontations, emphasizing placing their men behind protective barriers and luring potential hostiles to shoot first to establish a definite threat from deadly force. The US military will withdraw from the behavior of an occupying military force and advance to the behavior of a police or gendarmie force.

Battalion commanders will start hearing, "With all due respect, sir, your present orders to 'shoot first and act questions later' appear unlawful under the Uniform Code of Military Justice and International Conventions of Warfare as tested in the Pantano case. I regret that I cannot follow your orders as they appear unlawful. If you still feel that your orders are lawful, it will be necessary for you to put them in writing and sign them." Marine Lt Col's just love to hear that from their company officers and top sergeants.

Again, Pantano is a huge case. The outcome of this case will decide whether the US Marine Corps is a ground combat force or a police force in Iraq.
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rogt
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2005, 05:23:58 PM »

Neither of those articles even mentions the fact that one of Pantano's fellow marines gave a different account of those events.  We've heard no details of that so far, probably because of an explicit order not to discuss it in public.  But there's nothing stopping Pantano's family (and his civilian lawyer) from flooding the media with his version of the story.

If it all went down the way these articles say it did, then I agree that it makes little sense for him to be charged with murder.  Whatever this other marine told his superiors, I imagine it would have to be something pretty shocking in order for it to result in murder charges against a fellow marine in combat.  It's not like the Corps is run by a bunch of liberal pansies.

Rog
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toughman
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2005, 09:17:56 AM »

the enemy within-Another example-just like the so called prisoner abuse nonsense -another attempt to discredit the military and cause dissention and feed the false view of the USA. While in the media it is supported that the muslims are members of the peaceful religion.  Be an American. not a globalist, speak out and TAKE A STAND
remember all the beheadings, World Trade Center etc.
check out the links

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/index.html

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/
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rogt
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2005, 07:40:51 PM »

Quote from: toughman
the enemy within-Another example-just like the so called prisoner abuse nonsense -another attempt to discredit the military


As far as I know, it's the USMC that's bringing charges against Pantano.  Is the miltary trying to discredit itself?
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