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Author Topic: Top Dog's training  (Read 8610 times)
TomFurman
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« on: January 17, 2006, 10:21:58 AM »

Some years ago Top Dog promised his training program to the readers of Eskrima Digest. He has stayed in seclusion, perhaps developing new ways to smack people with sticks.

Beyond the genetics, (pain tolerance, legs of another species), what can we learn from his conditioning for rattan warfare??

--Tom Furman
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Night Owl
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« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2006, 12:21:42 PM »

A few months ago we shot an interview with Top Dog and Crafty Dog for an overseas publication.

One of the questions they answered was about training techniques. I know this isn't exactly what you're looking for, but I found it very interesting to hear Top Dog say that if you've taken a break from training and are ready to start training again, that you should start on a Full Moon.
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grizzly
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2006, 07:03:13 PM »

Why did he recommend starting on full moon? How does that help?
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TomFurman
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2006, 08:03:40 PM »

Interesting that it is a 28 day cycle. One of the guys I chat with on our forum is a highly analytical powerlifter. He uses the fourth week of training as a back off week. ALWAYS. He has his relatives in sports use it with High School athletes as well. This is not new, but rather done naturally by many trainers.

Watching Top Dog in action/isolation, is kinda frightening. He can translate the OLD Pekiti stuff mixed with TopDog-Fu, Dogbro-chuan, Inosanto-mix, and Machado-Jits,....seamlessly. He does it with athletic explosiveness, balletic content, and bad intent.
I know about the tire throwing, and would like some more details as to the intervals, weight, volume, duration, and intensity.

I am currently training several Pro Athletes with Kettlebells, Clubbells, and Jumpstretch Bands. I would love to see Eric Knauss play with some Clubbells, particularly the 45lb Bruiser. One wonders what effects KB's, and other primitive devices would have on Fighting Force of the Elder Council.

--Tom Furman www.physicalstrategies.com
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iloilo44
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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2006, 04:50:31 AM »

Hello,

I always admire people who train hard to improve the human condition especially when it comes down to martial arts.  At 43 years old, I plan to train as long as I my body will allow it and hopefully participate at more Gatherings.  My question is this similar to "periodization" as some trainer's would say?  

I have come across some really good articles by Clarence Bass (www.cbass.com) and I thought it had some similarities to your experience.

Peace,

Glenn
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TomFurman
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« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2006, 10:39:01 PM »

A lot of traditional lifting cycles and training cycles are based on cycling drugs for performance. With that aside, try the 4 week cycle, using the fourth week as a back off week with 50% training loads. Always taper before competition and focus on hard skill vs gym(weights/running) drills.


There are plenty of training methods for individual lifts such as bench press or snatch, but that is not specific to martial arts. You could train those separately after a competition as a hypertrophy or strength cycle and then move into martial specific training.

I like simple and the 4 weeks cycle is easy.

--Tom Furman
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TomFurman
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« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2006, 09:56:03 PM »

I have a feeling TopDog doesn't get here to often ;--))

Tom Furman
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2006, 11:52:19 PM »

Or he doesn't post , , ,
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TomFurman
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« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2006, 10:14:12 PM »

Well, maybe I will have my instructor, Bruno Cruicchi send some crazy Garrote trained farmers from rural Venezuela to find Top Dog;-))
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TopDog
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2006, 11:27:05 PM »

My wife laughed out loud when she saw the remark about "high pain tolerance".  Anytime I display pain, I'm accused of being a drama queen and that I should not have any such issues given what we go through at a Gathering.  It's hard to explain that during a fight, I certainly feel pain but have chosen not to acknowledge it.  Aside from a serious, bone crushing injury, I was able to maintain this state throughout the entire Gathering.  Also, there is nothing quite like talking about a particularly hard shot you took that day over a Kirin Beer and some sushi.

E
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TopDog
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2006, 11:37:32 PM »

If I said that I start on a full moon then I mispoke.  It's actualy a new moon because that is the beginning of the cycle.  A full moon is right in the middle of a cycle and winding its way down - the event you are working towards is weakened when you need it to gain strength.  Good idea not to fight on a full moon too (although it is hard to resist), you'll bleed more.

E
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TomFurman
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2006, 06:19:32 PM »

Eric, the training methods??? Just some general patterns you followed, such as intervals, weights, sparring, power work, flexibility, etc.

How did you go from 215 to 225 (Marc's comments from your fight with Tom Kier vs how you appear on RCSF tapes). Other than Sushi and Kirin beer.

Tom
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TopDog
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« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2006, 10:50:56 PM »

My training was mostly solo.  Not much weight training but I have a very solid steel "stick" that has the same dimensions of a fighting stick only it weighs about 9 lbs.  I go through all the basics with it but spend most of my energy on power strikes (both sides).  All the heavy lifting, though, is usually done 2 weeks prior to a Gathering and then I start training with a stick I know I'm going to fight with.   Another thing that I really like is climbing "Dune Hill" in Hermosa Beach - it's a killer (ask Marc) but your legs and endurance benefit tremendously.  215 was just before I started to lift regularly - I peaked at 245 but that was way too heavy and made me feel thick.  Great if you're going to body build but not good for a stick fighter.  It seemed that the moment I stopped lifting, I dropped to 225.  True, some strength was lost but the quickness was back.  I was at 225 when Tom and I fought.


E
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TomFurman
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2006, 11:13:58 PM »

Thanks, nice stuff. www.clubbell.tv has Indian club devices that go from 5lbs all the way to 80lbs. The ten pounder would be a nice tool for you.

Play with Marc's kettlebells and tell me what you think. I posted a workout at his request on Warrior Talk Forum.

Drop a kettlebell at the bottom of the Dunes and do swings with it, then run up and down the dune. Rest 30 or 60 seconds and repeat. Trust me, this will open up amazing things ability wise.

--Tom Furman
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2006, 07:21:52 PM »

Top Dog, I am aware of several systems of silat that use the phases of the moon as a method of "periodization".  I'm also aware various sympathetic and high magic practices using the phases of the moon.  Just curious as to where yours comes from?  Also, curious how frequently you train with the heavy stick and how much volume you do.  I once developed a case of Arnis elbow using heavy sticks any advice?
Tony Torre
Miami Arnis Group
www.miamiarnisgroup.com
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TopDog
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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2006, 01:41:17 AM »

Early in my handreading career, I was cross trained in what is termed "mundane" astrology for a few years while I was still in New York.  My instructor, Zoltan Mason, had us doing progressive and/or natal charts to the point that I had a pretty good idea where the planets were before putting pencil to paper to ephemeris.  This was in the late 70's and we did not have PC's to do the calculations.  Zoltan was big on understanding the phases of the moon in terms of a chart and in terms of conducting one's life in general.  Consequently, if I want to start something eg. training for a specific event, starting a business, project or relationship, I "shoot for the new moon" if at all feasible.  Sometimes this is not practical and  you have to tweak events and intentions to transplant the genesis to a more favorable aspect.
And sometimes no matter what you do, it doesn't work at all.  At this point I usually take a step back and look for why it was not meant to happen.  More often  it was the 'purpose' that was out of sync.  Like bjj is to stickfighting, it is a method that, when combined with other skills, forms an alloy that is stronger that either ingredient.

The heavy stick is not something you just pick up and start swinging cold  especially as you get older.  If your elbow  is hurting, then it sounds like it ("it" being your elbow) is too far away from your body on a forehand swing - either flat horizontal or diagonal.  This would tend to lead to extra stress on the joint when hitting a tire or another stick.  Leo Gaje really hammered at Tom Bisio and me to have as a deep a chamber as possible while training as this would translate to good mechanics and posture while fighting.  I think as a result of that, neither one of us developed "arnis elbow".  It should not be a factor on your power backhand unless some basic mechanic is off.


E
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carlo
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2006, 01:14:04 AM »

How much did lacrosse play into your skillset development?

Respecfully,

Carlo
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2006, 01:05:25 PM »

Top Dog,

Thank you for the advice.

Tony Torre
Miami Arnis Group
www.miamiarnisgroup.com
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2006, 05:59:49 AM »

TD is getting ready for his move to Texas (farewell party this Sunday) so I will field the question on Lacrosse.

IMHO Lacrosse definitely is a part of TD's distinctive approach.  I know very little about the sport (although my six year old son Conrad has expressed an interest, the youngest team around here is for 8 year olds) but in TD's willingness even in the mid 1980s (i.e. many years before the BJJ era) to actually run at the opponent and crash & bash him.  IIRC for those of you who have "The Grandfathers Speak" check out the snippet of the first time he and Salty Dog fought for an example.  (Although it was the first WEKAF championships, due to the disorganized nature of the day, the event ran well beyond the intended closing time and most of the judges had simply left and substitutes were recruited from those there.  So TD and SD were happily able to disregard inconvenient rules wink )  

Woof,
Crafty Dog
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grizzly
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« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2006, 02:52:22 PM »

I have a question regarding footwork for everyone, when kicking in a point oriented sparring you can land more successful kicks if you lift your leg before you move in, as timing and distance changes.

Now my question is do you find you can acheive more successful combinations when you:
1. move your leg before the rest of you body
2. body first (lean, kind of fall)
3. together
4. or makes no difference at all
It sounds abit silly but if play with it you will find you tend to move one way or the other.

Thanks,
Jason
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2006, 01:35:42 PM »

Grizzly,

I don't know much about point fighting but I have a student who was a local point Karate champion.  In class he frequently uses a modified lead leg round kick that slides the support leg forward as the kicking leg chambers.  Most of the time you feel it before you even see him move.  It hurts like hell.  If you are wearing shoes it may work well to the groin.  In class he uses it to strike the inner thigh with great effect.  The down side is on grass or uneven terrain it doesn't work very well.  Hope this helps.

Tony Torre
Miami Arnis Group
www.miamiarnisgroup.com
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grizzly
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« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2006, 02:40:28 PM »

Yes, thanks that is exactly what i mean! In regards to chambering your leg before moving to kicking, what i am curious to know is whether there is a similar idea to footwork when closing. Whether walking, slipping to the side or running in.

I am not sure exactly how to explain it, I have done a bit of tactical gun defense, while I know the technique and can walk through it, I was not 'moving correctly' to not be hit, and it had to do with the step out.

When you walk you either shift your whole body weight with your foot as you step forward, or you step with your foot first then your body follows, or you can lean with your upper body and fall into a run forward where your legs are kind of chasing your upper body. I hope that makes a bit more sense.

I don't have access to very much fight footage and I as everyone here is very big on footwork I was wondering if anyone noticed if it makes any difference or none at all.
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DanJuanDeSiga
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« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2006, 06:17:56 PM »

Where in TX is TD moving to?
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2006, 10:39:28 AM »

Grizzly,

I'm not sure exactly what you mean.  But try the following:  Strive to keep your ears over your hips most of the time, step with the foot closest to the direction you're going, and push off the other foot, do all that simultaneously.  Think balance and forward pressure.('evil')

Try that until your opponent starts to back pedal.  Once he's flat footed and bending backwards run him over.  Your normal running gait should be good enough.

Hope this helps.

Tony Torre
Miami Arnis Group
www.miamiarnisgroup.com
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