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Author Topic: Tito Ortiz uses FMA  (Read 5384 times)
Tony Torre
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« on: June 03, 2006, 05:31:27 PM »

I thought I saw Tito Ortiz using elbow destructions in the tail end of his fight with Forrest Griffin.  Any thoughts on this?

Tony Torre
Miami Arnis Group
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Guard Dog
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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2006, 09:20:27 AM »

Personally I don't think they were intentional.  Ya never know though =)

Gruhn
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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
Business Director | Full Instructor | Black Dog Tag
"Smuggling Concepts Across the Frontiers of Style”
ryan@dogbrothers.com | www.dogbrothers.com
Tony Torre
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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2006, 03:34:09 PM »

Ryan,

You never know, but the stucture while he was covering purely defensively looked diffrent than when I thought he was attempting elbow destructions.  He held his lead arm elbow much farther foward as if attempting to injure Forrest's jab.  Which he was throwing a lot of.  There is no rule that I know of preventing limb destructions therefore it really wouldn't be dishonorable to use them.

Tony Torre
Miami Arnis Group
www.miamiarnisgroup.com
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Guard Dog
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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2006, 03:43:06 PM »

You can see Tito use this against Chuck as well.  I think what he is trying to do is do a high shield but rotate it into the straight punch.  I love to use them when I am sparring as many people don't expect them.  Your right about the rules, it would be a great addition to a lot of peoples games.

Gruhn
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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
Business Director | Full Instructor | Black Dog Tag
"Smuggling Concepts Across the Frontiers of Style”
ryan@dogbrothers.com | www.dogbrothers.com
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2006, 03:47:09 PM »

I think Randy Couture was exposed to this idea in training for his first fight with Vitor Belfort.  Anybody out there remember this?
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Michael Brown
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« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2006, 10:28:46 PM »

Quote from: Crafty_Dog
I think Randy Couture was exposed to this idea in training for his first fight with Vitor Belfort.  Anybody out there remember this?


I believe he got the structure from Erik Paulson.  His clinch was so strong that he trained with Paulson a bunch to develop some clinch entries.

Michael Brown
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Sisco T.
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« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2006, 08:22:34 PM »

i'm sure couture did train that ''elbow destruction'' technique with erik paulson. that one-arm pillar with elbow pointing  towards whatever comes to you face is one of erik paulson's punch defenses. it was tailor made , in my opinion, for a guy like vitor. for all the accolades about vitor's striking i never thought he had that many tools. he was fast and pwerful but he only went in a straight line and only threw straight punches. people always talk about randy's clinch work with paulson but i always thought that this one-arm pillar defense is what broke down vitor's striking strategy during their fight (the 1st one).

    as for ortiz using FMA he's trying to use rodney king's crazy monkey defense. whether crazy monkey is influenced by FMA i don't know, but alot of the concepts are similar to me.
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TomFurman
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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2006, 09:44:25 PM »

Rodney's Crazy Monkey comes from his South African Street experience.
(adapting boxing to doorman work), and Old Thai style from some of his instructors from Thailand.

That is the SEAsian connection.

--Tom Furman
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2006, 10:04:15 AM »

My understanding is that some of the old Thai camps have some genuine differences in elbow shielding structures.

I remember being surprised when disceovering that the positions we learned in Inosanto Blend were unknown to other fellow American MT practitioners and as I watched MT fights from Thailand seeing different elbow shielding structures.  

A matter of my own ignorance no doubt , , , just underlining Tom's point that there are things that often things fly under the radar screen-- in this case an Old Thai structure.

I agree with Sisco's assessment of the importance of the role of Couture's anti-punch structure in his first fight with Belfort.
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Dog Greg Brown
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« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2006, 06:13:21 AM »

The older and more established camps in thailand all have very unnique style and are usually known for a grouping of techniques that make its fighters unique. Also the older the camp is the more of an influence you see from the ancient forms of thai boxing (more closely related to krabi). This does include alot of elbow strikes not really in many US camps, and even in thailand it isn't taught at many of the camps. Currently pro MT in Thailand is dominated by  a sportfighting style that is not that distinguishable from camp to camp.  

Well that was a rant. The short and skinny of it is that in the US we miss out on alot of really good elbow material in our thai boxing. The rules in the US don't allow the freedom to elbow in most fights, so somethings get lost in translation.

Just my two cents

Greg
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ch
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« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2006, 11:37:08 AM »

this isnt about tito but ufc season 3 fighter tait fletcher mentions training with one of  the DOG BROTHERS.
            peace
               cameron
                   
 



Tait Fletcher: Understanding The Misunderstood.

By: Kal Thompson
Contact: BoxingThoughts@yahoo.com

Season 3 of Spike TV?s ?The Ultimate Fighter? has arguably sparked more interest and debate than both of its predecessors combined. With the conflicting duality of Coaches Ken Shamrock and Tito Ortiz, the attention that this season has received is not surprising.
However, there is more to this show than its basis of the feud between Shamrock and Ortiz.

Season 3 competitor Tait Fletcher has been the subject of more MMA online message board posts than any of his peers. What is it about Tait Fletcher that sparks such interest with MMA fans? Is it his physical appearance? --his unabashed honesty??his personality?his fighting style?

Tait Fletcher recently took the time to answer questions pertaining to the show, internet message boards, his most recent fight, his future, and much more.





BoxingInsider.com: What is the greatest thing you ?came away with? from your entire ?The Ultimate Fighter? reality show experience?

Tait Fletcher: In terms of fighting, the importance of your coaching and preparation. The most important thing in general is to show that you are natural, that you are genuine. The honesty that you present in being genuine is vital?as far as the evolution of a person, and as far as people being able to grasp on to who you are and that who you are is just fine. You don?t need rise or fall on anybody?s expectations or change yourself one iota for that. You just need to stand firm in your ideals, you know. And then with the aftermath of it all, it?s still true. It?s like with my fight, I haven?t really seen that episode at all. I?ve only seen the second round of that fight. I remember saying that it?s just a matter of opinion. I know that I didn?t get beaten. There is no domination that happened. Josh squeaked out a win on the judges? scorecards. But, that wasn?t about anything but what a couple of guys saw when they viewed that fight. What those guys think is unimportant to me in that way. What?s important to me is the experience. The outcomes of things are not the ?be all, end all.? It?s the process of doing it.

BoxingInsider.com: That leads us to this question. You just mentioned the judges? decision on your fight with Josh Haynes. After that fight, you appeared to be very respectful and ?at peace? after the decision loss. Do you agree with the judges? scorecards in that Josh won the fight between the two of you?

Tait Fletcher: No, but at the same time, when they asked me how I felt about it right after, I?m an honest genuine mother f**ker, so I wasn?t going to be grandiose enough to say what I thought one way or the other. I was in the fight, so I couldn?t be objective about it. Looking at it, I saw the second round on video, I haven?t seen the first round yet, but there was a real handsome, tattooed, bald-headed guy that dominated that whole second round. I controlled the action, and controlled where the fight went. Regardless, I would love to have fought that fight a different way as I?m sure Josh would?ve, too. As far as the judges? go, let?s go back to your question. They were f**king dead wrong. What I thought was strange about it at the time is that one of the scores was like 28-30, and another was 30-28. I thought that was a big disparity. One guy was thinking one way; and the other was thinking the opposite. Then the other (judge) was right in the middle in Josh?s favor. I understand what has happened. It?s old school boxing. These (judges) are still part of the commission; and they are the governing body. So, they put some old b*stard who has no idea what MMA is in a position of power and authority. It?s a shame. I just hope that this doesn?t happen to somebody else where it really matters. For me, I?m at peace wherever I am. My fighting is not the ?be all, end all? career for me. I have a lot in my life. My life is very full, but it?s a travesty when that happens, when there is that much of a foul up. A lot of guys whom I?ve seen have said that?s the worst decision that they?ve ever seen. Do I think it was wrong? Yes, I think that I decisively would have earned a decision. For sure, that fight would have been finished. The only guy who was in danger of being finished in that fight was Josh. As far as a guy ending the fight, that was going to be me. If Josh had had a thousand years, he would have never finished me. That being the case, I think you should give it to the guy who is the dominant fighter. At the same time, I believe in a higher level. I think there is a big picture going on that we can?t see. I don?t believe there are any mistakes. That decision was made for a reason. I might not be able to see what that reason is, right now. As it stands, I don?t have any axes to grind. However life unfolds, it?s up to me to roll with it.

BoxingInsider.com: The voice of the mixed martial arts fan base is heard more loudly on internet message boards than any other medium. When it comes to Tait Fletcher, there is very little middle ground. Fans seem to either love you or hate you. What do you think about that?

Tait Fletcher: It?s awesome in a way. It?s weird, too. There are a lot of people who feel one way or the other, but they never express their opinion. There are a lot of people watching the sport and you don?t know how they feel. And then, you have to weed out the trolls, the people who are just looking for a reaction, for someone to bite on some idiotic comment. There?s so much of that, so it?s hard to put any credibility into anything that anybody on a message board has to say, unless you know that person. The telling thing for me is that guys who f**king hated me, guys who loathed me, have emailed me after the (T.U.F.) fight and told me that they thought I got robbed on the decision. They told me that they still hate me, but in their opinion, I won that fight. The disparity of whether they love me or hate me is weird, too, because they are real fickle. They ?flip-flop.? So, you?ve got people who are of the low intellectual capacity who are willing to make an entire general idea out of one small brief ?instance in time? perception out of an edited reality show about what your character is. That?s the kind of miniscule cerebral crap that?s going on with some of these people. That?s what I think of these people. There are a lot of dummies out there, and who cares? And that?s for everybody, whether they like me or hate me. They are cerebrally challenged; and I wish them well.

BoxingInsider.com: Of course, every athlete has a limited amount of time in order to compete competitively. That being said, concerning other careers, are you still in the bodyguard business?

Tait Fletcher: Yeah, I do that. I do acting. I have jobs here and there that keep me excited. That?s really what I like to do. I like to live life fully. Whatever I can do to have enough time and enough money to do that is what I?ll do. Fighting is a hell of a challenge because there is no time for anything else except fighting. I mean, when you?re two months out, and you?re six hours a day in the gym, taking naps, and doing the diet thing, you really don?t have time for anything else. To really be at that level, you have to ask yourself how long you want to do that. Those are questions that every athlete must ask their self. The thing is that I?m 35 years old. I?m not a 22-year-old Kendall Grove. I?m not a Mike Bisping who has a lot of time and ambition to do only this. MMA started out as both a love and a distraction from a lot of things for me. I fell in love with jiu-jitsu, and then one thing led to another.

BoxingInsider.com: Describe the path that led you to where you are now, in terms of MMA.

Tait Fletcher: Well, I fell in love with jiu-jitsu, and then I began to wonder how I would do against this guy, or that guy. I?ve wrestled Jeff Monson. I?ve wrestled a lot of the best guys in the world. That?s what the competitions were like for me in the beginning. I started doing stick fights with one of the guys who founded the Dog Brothers. Then that evolved to the next. Then there were national tournaments, and then the worlds in Brazil. I wanted to see where I would really fall under all these categories. To really put yourself out there on that type of competition on the world level is something that surpassed my wildest dreams about what my own physical, emotional, and mental capabilities were. It?s like surpassing your own limits that you?ve placed on yourself; like saying that could never happen because everybody from where I?m from is either a drug dealer or a factory worker. You know what I mean. It becomes a real victory to be able to just compete on those levels. It was a privilege and a pleasure to be able to be a part of the UFC experience. To be able to fight in the cage in front of the Fertitta brothers and Dana White, that?s the super bowl for me. I don?t have any delusions about taking the light heavyweight title. I don?t want to put the time into anything like that. Whatever I do is for fun and to try to?I have a whole other part of my life where I speak in front of high schools and stuff. I get opportunities to speak in front of different people. From where I?ve come from and where I?ve ended up, I was supposed to be either incarcerated or dead by now. I wasn?t supposed to have been able to be a professional athlete, or to travel the world with any kind of sport with a clear head, and be a functional part of society who is able to give back rather than take. Nobody would have ever guessed that from Tait Fletcher. That is what precisely has happened. Through perseverance and being lucky with the people whom I?ve met in my life, I?ve put one foot in front of the other and tried to live a righteous way. It?s been phenomenal for me. It?s the one gift that I can give back to people when I talk with them. Your limits are the limits you post up in your own head. The only person limiting yourself is you. Really, anybody can change their destiny. You can either accept your fate and sit on the couch, or you can go out and try to form your destiny into something different. And I don?t care what your surroundings are or what your background is, if you?re a junkie, or a thief, or whatever your deal is?anything can happen. There is hope for change in anybody.

For more on Tait Fletcher, his camp, and his sponsors, please visit:

www.local505.net

www.taitfletcher.com

www.thetwister.tv

www.sinisterbrand.com

www.jacksons.tv
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outcast
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« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2006, 02:20:22 AM »

I've been told, and maybe this is heresay that Randy Couture uses elbow destructions because Matt Thorton showed him them back when he first got into MMA for use against Vitor Belfort.  That could be an Oregon thing though (they both being from there).  At one point, Matt Thorton had a higher respect for FMA (but he's still crazy!). 
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nasigoreng
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« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2006, 03:28:38 AM »

Rodney King was also involved in the Straight Blast Gym if i'm not mistaken.
 
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    Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.
outcast
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« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2006, 12:08:47 AM »

Correct.  Lately, I've been training with a guy from SBG back when they still did sticks.  He does mention that a lot.
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Tony Torre
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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2006, 01:08:08 PM »

Here we have it guys, proof that FMA is currently being used in MMA.  Right from Randy Coutures mouth.
Check out the following link grin

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7091041229229314735&q=randy+couture&hl=en

Tony Torre
Miami Arnis Group
www.miamiarnisgroup.com
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Guard Dog
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« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2006, 02:28:34 PM »

Looks like you have to buy the video.  I have this series, where and what does he say?

Gruhn
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Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
Business Director | Full Instructor | Black Dog Tag
"Smuggling Concepts Across the Frontiers of Style”
ryan@dogbrothers.com | www.dogbrothers.com
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2006, 08:25:50 PM »

The clip does mention elbow destructions, which is definitely a FMA concept and term , , ,
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