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Author Topic: The Russian conspiracy, Comey, related matters  (Read 3463 times)
DougMacG
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« Reply #200 on: July 13, 2017, 11:18:49 AM »

If Trump had a true political pro in the position Donald Jr was in when this happened, (some say) this wouldn't have happened.  A true pro would have smelled a rat, recognized false claims, not written 'I love it' to the offer and shook out the opposition research they needed without leaving an embarrassing trail full of land mines.  At the time this happened, there was no Russia stole it narrative, but a true political pro would have steered around that anyway.

But if Trump had surrounded himself with only political professionals and always listened to them, he wouldn't have been the nominee or won the election.

If there had been a big collusion conspiracy strategy in place with Putin at the top of the Trump campaign to steal the election, one of these 3 people would have known about it.  DT Jr would have carefully steered this request to those channels, not set up a meeting and a paper trail.  Not this way:
"Mr. Goldstone publicly checked into Trump Tower on Facebook during the meeting, which isn’t how a KGB man would normally conceal the handoff of state secrets."

Interesting to see what heroic lengths the Obama administration and the Loretta Lynch Justice Department went through to enable this particular meeting, in the context that the phony Dossier earlier was DNC inspired (peeing on the bed?!) and all of it broken through the same, irresponsible newspaper.

The longer this story goes on, the worse the derangement side looks.  cf. Tim Kaine.

G M, previously in this thread:  "according to confidential government records described to The New York Times.
 rolleyes
So, were these records created when Obama ordered the president elect spied upon?"

Worse yet, maybe it was all set up by DNC / Obama administration operatives.  It looks that way:
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ccp
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« Reply #201 on: July 13, 2017, 12:02:20 PM »

"Worse yet, maybe it was all set up by DNC / Obama administration operatives.  It looks that way:"

That would explain why after losing the election the Dems *immediately* went all guns blazing about some Russia connection and the rest.....


They had thought of this long before early November.   The whole machine made this their story from day ONE.
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G M
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« Reply #202 on: July 13, 2017, 12:43:34 PM »

Third post:

A major progressive friend cites this hard to read page https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/7/9/1679290/-Abramson-connects-the-dots-collusion-is-certain-and-Trump-knew

and summarizes it thus:

==============================================

To summarize the collusion (the individual pieces are now out there and this is my belief about how it all came together):

- Trump's clan was contacted by his friends in Russia once it was clear that he would win the Republican Party nomination.

- Russia knew it would be unlikely Trump would win but believed it could test out its information warfare capabilities, which it had been bragging about in open conferences in Russia but now needed a test case on the international stage (the low price of oil has gutted the Russian economy and the oligarchs have stolen hundreds of billions from the Russian people without punishment, so cyber warfare rather than physical warfare are now their game).

- Trump's people, not actually believing they could win, took the bait and started meetings as far back as April to see how hey might get help from the country that has been funding Trump's poorly performing businesses (via DeutcheBank as the paper processor).

- In characteristic fashion, the Russians mount a full court press, meeting with a half dozen or more people involved in the campaign and built strong roots with people who were already US citizens acting as foreign agents (Manafort, et al).

- Russia promised a whole slew of support which was all discussed in all the meetings with the Russians--from Sessions to Manafort to Carter Page, to Don Jr's meetings--and included discussions of how the Trump camp could feed Russia information that Russia could use for micro targeting through Facebook (which has been proven).

- These meetings and discussions entangle the Trump campaign in a way that, even if the campaign wanted to get out, were stuck (proof is in how Flynn was brought in as national security advisor, in a giant coup for the Russians, proving to them that their entanglement works at the highest levels).

- The lack of cloaking is so evident that Trump gets on stage in early June 2016, 4 days after the meeting with Don Jr and the other cronies he brags that he is going to reveal a whole bunch of Clinton dirt! It was planned, it was orchestrated and colluded upon, no question about it.

- Russia knew that if their information warfare techniques could actually shift the election, with the recordings the Russians had on Trump's people, they owned the entire group and could see their bought and sold Trump people all the way into the White House (both to have morons who would repeal the sanctions but also to fundamentally destabilize the world and the US leadership role, which have now already happened in only a few months, and not even with Trump needing to be told what to do!).

- Trump was so highly undesirable that only an information warfare approach in the key districts (the now legendary 77,000 votes) created the painful secret anti-Clinton vote that allowed those districts to flip red and the Electoral College to go for Trump despite a massive popular vote win for Clinton (this was all aided by the stupid overconfidence of Clinton by not anticipating the flipping and not playing as dirty as Trump-Russia).

- When Trump can't seem to lose by saying the most extraordinary things, the Russians double-down on true fake news (Clinton running a sex ring...etc.) and find that people continue to believe it. In fact more than 75% of the Facebook impressions during the campaign were for fake rather than real news, affecting 15 million people, more than enough to sway 77,000 votes in key districts.

- When journalists (thank g-d) started penetrating the strange new world and leakers (thank g-d) started leaking at the greatest levels ever seen, we got to see a picture of exactly what a purchased, compromised executive branch looks like--state attorney generals who were promised a job but who were investigating Russian ties being fired, compromised people like Flynn being pushed in, firings of Comey who were close to the truth, and now the unstoppable cascade of new revelations coming out.

We will look back on this day and say, my g-d, it was all right there in front of us but too surreal to believe. From the likes of Michael Crichton or John Le Carré novels, this is real. The Russians have created the most powerful bioweapon: our own self-loathing and gullibility.

Believe.



He needs meds. Especially for the upcoming sadness when reality again frustrates their impeachment fantasies.

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rickn
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« Reply #203 on: July 13, 2017, 01:06:04 PM »

The Russia interference scenario is a corollary of the "Manafort is a Russian dupe" scenario that was directed at Trump beginning in May or June 2016. 

This was their pre-emptive strike against the Clinton Foundation and the uranium deal argument that they knew would be an issue in the campaign.  As well as a pre-emptive strike against the Podesta was phished problem.  If the Dems could blame that whole debacle on sophisticated Russian spies instead of Podesta falling for an obvious phishing scheme, then they can escape responsibility for their own failures.

If you recall, the anti-Trump Repub's and the Dem's went all in against Trump because Manafort had previously consulted for the preferred Russian political leader in Ukraine.  This is why Ukraine operatives tried to help Clinton in the 2016 election.  The argument went something like this: because Manafort had once consulted for pro-Russian politician, ergo Trump must be pro-Putin.

Then, the AZ airport meeting between Lynch and Bill Clinton was revealed.

Then, Comey held his first press conference at which he announced that he would recommend against not indicting Hillary over her email issues, but during which he made serious allegations against Hillary's email security.
 
The Mnafort line of attack stopped working after the Trump campaign replaced Manafort with Bannon and Conway.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/paul-manafort-resigns-from-trump-campaign-227197

Afterwards, when it became clear that Wikileaks had obtained Podesta's emails and would be releasing them, the Dem's began to shift the emphasis of this towards Russian hackers having illegally obtained these emails.

The shift in Dem talking points also occurred about the same time, August 2016, when Obama first learned of Russian attempts "to interfere in the election."

And, today, we learn that it was Sen. McCain who first sought to use the fake dossier on Trump. 

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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #204 on: July 13, 2017, 01:27:44 PM »

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/07/12/democrat-and-ex-cia-trump-is-right-democrats-did-spread-british-dossier-so-did-intel-community.html
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #205 on: July 13, 2017, 02:22:06 PM »

Can someone print this please? 

http://www.newyorker.com/news/benjamin-wallace-wells/rob-goldstones-pivotal-role-in-the-donald-trump-jr-scandal?mbid=nl_TNY%20Template%20-%20With%20Photo%20%2831%29&CNDID=50142053&spMailingID=11468581&spUserID=MjAxODUyNTc2OTUwS0&spJobID=1201179447&spReportId=MTIwMTE3OTQ0NwS2
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #206 on: July 13, 2017, 05:14:45 PM »



https://www.thecipherbrief.com/article/exclusive/clapper-trump-jr-emails-only-one-anecdote-much-larger-story-1091

This makes sense to me:

“What I find striking — and alarming — is less that these senior Trump officials stepped over the ethical line, but that they don’t seem to even understand that such a line exists,” Morell said.

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G M
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« Reply #207 on: July 13, 2017, 09:10:47 PM »






https://www.thecipherbrief.com/article/exclusive/clapper-trump-jr-emails-only-one-anecdote-much-larger-story-1091

This makes sense to me:

“What I find striking — and alarming — is less that these senior Trump officials stepped over the ethical line, but that they don’t seem to even understand that such a line exists,” Morell said.



http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2011/02/dni-clapper-retreats-from-secular-claim-on-muslim-brotherhood-033259

Director of National Intelligence James Clapper is backing away from comments he made Thursday calling Egypt's branch of the Muslim Brotherhood movement "largely secular."

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-11-17/lawmakers-resume-calls-for-james-clapper-perjury-charges



Some lawmakers reacted to the long-expected resignation announcement from Director of National Intelligence James Clapper on Thursday by wishing him an eventful retirement, featuring prosecution and possible prison time.

The passage of more than three years hasn’t cooled the insistence in certain quarters that Clapper face charges for an admittedly false statement to Congress in March 2013, when he responded, “No, sir" and "not wittingly” to a question about whether the National Security Agency was collecting “any type of data at all” on millions of Americans.

About three months after making that claim, documents leaked by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden revealed the answer was untruthful and that the NSA was in fact collecting in bulk domestic call records, along with various internet communications.

To his critics, Clapper lied under oath, a crime that threatens effective oversight of the executive branch. In an apology letter to lawmakers, however, Clapper said he gave the “clearly erroneous” answer because he “simply didn’t think of” the call-record collection.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #208 on: July 13, 2017, 10:12:33 PM »

A timely reminder.

Still, this remains:

"“What I find striking — and alarming — is less that these senior Trump officials stepped over the ethical line, but that they don’t seem to even understand that such a line exists,” Morell said."
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G M
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« Reply #209 on: July 13, 2017, 10:23:28 PM »

A timely reminder.

Still, this remains:

"“What I find striking — and alarming — is less that these senior Trump officials stepped over the ethical line, but that they don’t seem to even understand that such a line exists,” Morell said."


What ethical line is this? This is all bullshiite. You need to stop giving the MSM/Dems/deep state gaslighting memes credit. Both Clapper and Morrell have the credibility of a methamphetamine addict car thief.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/opinion/campaign-stops/i-ran-the-cia-now-im-endorsing-hillary-clinton.html?mtrref=en.wikipedia.org&gwh=C453C850BC21F7FF8F179DC8F7A94E52&gwt=pay&assetType=opinion

« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 10:26:38 PM by G M » Logged
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #210 on: July 14, 2017, 12:04:38 AM »

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-peter-smith-death-met-0713-20170713-story.html
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DougMacG
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« Reply #211 on: July 14, 2017, 07:29:47 AM »


Plenty of reasons to be suspicious.  A hotel used almost exclusively for Mayo clinic patients is probably not where you find cases of untreated depression.  I don't understand the role of the helium or how people learn or decide best way  sad to commit suicide.  Maybe it gives him comfort breathing something as the oxygen disappears.  Did he buy the helium himself?  Did he research that method online in his own browser history?

Even if genuine suicide, this adds to the enormous trail of dead bodies along the Clinton path.  From the article: 

"For years, former Democratic President Bill Clinton was Smith's target. The wealthy businessman had a hand in exposing the "Troopergate" allegations about Bill Clinton's sex life. And he discussed financing a probe of a 1969 trip Bill Clinton took while in college to the Soviet Union, according to Salon magazine.'

Are there any Clinton scandal researchers still alive.  Whoever killed him is probably asking that question too.
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ccp
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« Reply #212 on: July 14, 2017, 07:38:48 AM »

life insurance policies probably do pay even in case of suicide though there may be a 2 yr delay in payment.

that said the whole thing sounds weird

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DougMacG
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« Reply #213 on: July 14, 2017, 08:37:51 AM »

“What I find striking — and alarming — is less that these senior Trump officials stepped over the ethical line, but that they don’t seem to even understand that such a line exists,”

Peggy Noonan wrote:
[Not criminal, not collusion] "It was worse, it was classless."


This lacks context.  I have to check the timeline for what was known when, but this woman (HRC) was running a criminal enterprise out of the US state department, selling favors, collecting money, and a significant part of that happened in and with Russia.  She had at times a 90% chance of becoming President.  The only person who could stop that was whoever won the R nomination, turned out to be Trump.  As opposed to unethical, to DT Jr, stopping her and electing his father was quite patriotic, and opposition research or dirt on the opponent is a known, legal and accepted part of that.  A lot of her dirty work was in dirty places overseas.  That is where a legitimate break in the campaign might come from.  In this case it led to nothing.

Everyone who tries to get a meeting with someone important touts themselves as important, with ties to people high up for example if they are unknown themselves.  The claim of ties to the government or its intentions is just noise on the page to a Presidential nominee's gatekeeper.  It might be true; it might not be true.  We have no reason to believe DT Jr believed any of it, just that he agreed to listen.

Further context is that Trump's predecessor won a foreign policy debate against Romney on the idea 1) that Russia is not a threat, "The 1980s called and wants their foreign policy back."  And 2) he won on the idea that he talk to anyone, even Iran, the world's number one state sponsor of terror.  'Can't hurt to talk to them'.  Wrong as that is, that view was accepted and prevailed.

This might be bad behavior if they received and used ill-gotten information, but there was none. 

A 'crime' could have been non-disclosure but it was disclosed.

And most of all, quid pro quo, a favor or advantage granted or expected in return for something, and there was none.

No quid.  No pro.  No quo.  Just. bait and switch.

Trumps classless?  'ya think?

The class they were seeking was Presidential victory and the lines they shouldn't cross are legal ones.  It's not an under-regulated business.  One legal line never mentioned is freedom of speech which I take to include DT Jr's freedom to listen.  This meeting happened in the US, but there is no law against picking up the phone and talking to Russia.  There is no law against meeting with them, far as I know.  But if you plot or commit a crime during the call, the email or the meeting, that is a different matter.  Once again we are nationally neck deep into a 'scandal' and no one can tell us what the crime is that was committed.  So it's classless, unethical.  I disagree, but even if it was, bfd.  Big F'ing Deal.

Meanwhile, federal spending just hit $400B/month.  In all the wrong places.  yawn. shrug shoulders. no outrage there.
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ccp
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« Reply #214 on: July 14, 2017, 10:24:18 AM »

"Peggy Noonan wrote:
[Not criminal, not collusion] "It was worse, it was classless."

What bothers me is the rinos almost in unison turning on Trump.

The Krystals the Krauthammers the Noonans and the rest of many of the establishment types.

I  don't think Jrs seeking dirt on Hillary is classless at all.  Not one iota.  It was smart.  He would have been a fool a sucker if they didn't pursue this. 
however I wish he was smarter about it : leaving emails like ,  "I love it"
or that he simply disclosed the meeting  up front.

WE here all know crats would have done EXACTLY the same thing,  have done the exact same (think Ed Kennedy - Russia) though most likley they would have been wiser about going about it.
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G M
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« Reply #215 on: July 14, 2017, 10:34:18 AM »


Plenty of reasons to be suspicious.  A hotel used almost exclusively for Mayo clinic patients is probably not where you find cases of untreated depression.  I don't understand the role of the helium or how people learn or decide best way  sad to commit suicide.  Maybe it gives him comfort breathing something as the oxygen disappears.  Did he buy the helium himself?  Did he research that method online in his own browser history?

Even if genuine suicide, this adds to the enormous trail of dead bodies along the Clinton path.  From the article: 

"For years, former Democratic President Bill Clinton was Smith's target. The wealthy businessman had a hand in exposing the "Troopergate" allegations about Bill Clinton's sex life. And he discussed financing a probe of a 1969 trip Bill Clinton took while in college to the Soviet Union, according to Salon magazine.'

Are there any Clinton scandal researchers still alive.  Whoever killed him is probably asking that question too.

I saw the term "Arkancide" used. Struck me as funny. In a very dark sort of way.
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rickn
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« Reply #216 on: July 15, 2017, 06:41:52 AM »

This pseudo-scandal is beyond laughable.

So, now, the big deal is that other Russian lobbyists and an interpreter accompanied the lawyer.  But the meeting was with the lawyer and the lawyer did all of the talking through an interpreter.

According to another lobbyist who was in the Russian "delegation",  the lawyer claimed to have information showing a flow of illicit funds from Russia to the DNC.  Trump Jr then asks her whether she has evidence to back up her claim including proof of the actual flow of money.  The lawyer then replied that the Trump campaign would have to research it more.

http://apnews.com/dceed1008d8f45afb314aca65797762a/Russian-American-lobbyist-says-he-was-in-Trump-son's-meeting

At this point, Trump Jr lost interest.  Kushner left the room.  The lawyer pivots to bring up the real reason she was there - to lobby for repeal of the Magnitsky Act so that Putin would rescind restrictions on Americans adopting Russian children.  Trump Jr ends the meeting after a total of 20-30 minutes.

In other words, in reality, Trump, Jr. decided not to work with "the Russians."
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ccp
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« Reply #217 on: July 15, 2017, 08:41:51 AM »

"This pseudo-scandal is beyond laughable" yes I agree but

I would be laughing too if it were not for the persistent and damaging *political*  headlines that  gives the LEFT media DNC legal hollywood victim constituent complex leverage to work this to stop Trumps' agenda

We see how this has already  worked to demoralize Republicans , further damage Trump's support among them, and contribute  to keeping him and the feckless legislatures from being able to do anything.   Although the legislatures would probably not be getting anything done anyway.

Trump will survive this (at this point) but the endless use of this pseudo-scandal  to keep words like "treason, collusion, crook, illegitimate , stolen election and the rest" in the headlines as well as giving CNN , rightly or wrongly , more confidence to keep up their 24/7 attacks on Trump...............
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rickn
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« Reply #218 on: July 15, 2017, 10:09:59 AM »

It turns out that "the Russians" who met with Trump Jr., are also connected to Fusion GPS, the company that commissioned the fake British dossier.

http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2017/07/14/shocker.-wont-believe-employed-former-soviet-counterintelligence-official-trump-meeting/

Trump, Jr. declined to collude with these Russians and declined their "help" against Hillary.  Shortly afterwards, a dossier of alleged Trump Sr. indiscretions began to circulate.  And Senator McCain was somehow linked to requesting this info.  In addition, this dossier gets to the FBI and Comey.

Fusion GPS is at the center of all of these "collusions." 





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ccp
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« Reply #219 on: July 15, 2017, 10:48:27 AM »

"And Senator McCain was somehow linked to requesting this info."


Certainly one asks the question as is being done in some circles:

was this whole thing a set up from day one?

McCain always available, willing and able, as a darling of the left and its media, comes through for them again, and proves what an idiot he is  (the word "useful" [to the enemy left] can be tacked on to the word "idiot" but it is no longer necessary - he is just an *idiot*!)

« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 10:51:23 AM by ccp » Logged
ccp
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« Reply #220 on: July 17, 2017, 06:22:04 AM »

 shocked  wow - what bedfellows!  Dershowitz again calls out this whole thing with junior :

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/07/16/dershowitz-on-trump-jr-meeting-a-candidate-has-the-right-to-get-information-from-whatever-source/
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DougMacG
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« Reply #221 on: July 17, 2017, 09:52:10 AM »

This secret conspiracy swept undetected by journalism across 29 states.  A true story as the word collusion has come to have a valid use even when nothing criminal took place.

https://babylonbee.com/news/cnn-report-millions-american-voters-may-colluded-elect-trump/

CNN Report: Millions Of American Voters May Have Colluded To Elect Trump
July 13, 2017
Share on Facebook Tweet on Twitter 

U.S.—A new, exclusive CNN investigative report revealed Thursday that millions of American voters may have potentially colluded with the Trump campaign to elect Donald Trump as President of the United States.

While Russia has been accused of interfering in the election, the breaking report indicates that the collusion may have extended to a significant portion of the U.S. population—“as many as 60 million citizens, and possibly even more.”

“The conspiracy goes much deeper than anyone expected,” Jake Tapper said on his news segment The Politics Lead. “We’re talking tens of millions of people involved in this secret plot to make sure Hillary didn’t make it into the White House and to prop up Donald Trump as the winner.”

The CNN report does not accuse anyone of hacking or rigging the vote, but rather suggests that those colluding with the real estate mogul in the far-reaching scheme may have simply walked into voting booths and cast their vote for Donald Trump, giving him the electoral college victory.

“It’s far more sinister than we thought,” a visibly disturbed Tapper said.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #222 on: July 17, 2017, 11:48:18 PM »

This is Breitbart so let's double check this, but it appears that the former Russian intel officer at the meeting along with the Russian lawyer with Donnie of whom the Pravdas trumpet was

a) a double citizen of US and Russia (how does a former Russian intel guy get US citizenship?), and

, , , drum roll , , ,

b) had worked as an interpreter for Hillary's State Department:

http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2017/07/17/new-york-times-omits-clinton-state-department-link-trump-jr-meeting/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=daily&utm_content=links&utm_campaign=20170717

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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #223 on: July 21, 2017, 08:37:04 PM »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/sessions-discussed-trump-campaign-related-matters-with-russian-ambassador-us-intelligence-intercepts-show/2017/07/21/3e704692-6e44-11e7-9c15-177740635e83_story.html?utm_term=.3930cd8ca097


This reads article REALLY badly.  DO NOTE the incongruity of the headline and this within the body:

"Officials emphasized that the information contradicting Sessions comes from U.S. intelligence on Kislyak’s communications with the Kremlin, and acknowledged that the Russian ambassador could have mischaracterized or exaggerated the nature of his interactions.

“Obviously I cannot comment on the reliability of what anonymous sources describe in a wholly uncorroborated intelligence intercept that the Washington Post has not seen and that has not been provided to me,” said Sarah Isgur Flores, a Justice Department spokeswoman in a statement. She reiterated that Sessions did not discuss interference in the election."

AGAIN, on the whole this article reads quite devastatingly.

Russian and other foreign diplomats in Washington and elsewhere have been known, at times, to report false or misleading information to bolster their standing with their superiors or to confuse U.S. intelligence agencies."
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 08:39:03 PM by Crafty_Dog » Logged
ccp
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« Reply #224 on: July 22, 2017, 09:13:45 AM »

"  President Trump accomplished only one thing by railing at Attorney General Sessions: He added to the growing disinclination of quality people to work in his administration. No one with self-respect wants to work in a place where the boss not only won’t back you up when the going gets tough, but will turn on you with a vengeance — especially when there’s a need to divert attention from his own shortcomings.

Whether we’re talking about the shoddy behavior that intensified calls for a special counsel or about the selection of the officials who made the key decisions that have armed the special counsel with limitless jurisdiction, the president has only himself to blame. "

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449743/donald-trump-jeff-sessions-president-blame-mueller-affair

As Doug says impeachment would not happen unless the Right gives in............. undecided
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ccp
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« Reply #225 on: July 22, 2017, 09:32:24 AM »

He is the guy who could get things done in the House.  We need someone like him back.  Ryan is a loser.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsmax-Tv/attorney-general-recusal-investigation-Tom-DeLay/2017/07/20/id/802914/
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 09:34:14 AM by ccp » Logged
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #226 on: July 22, 2017, 02:45:34 PM »

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/343164-trump-launches-all-out-assault-on-mueller-probe?rnd=1500739275
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #227 on: July 22, 2017, 02:55:55 PM »


Fascinating discussion about at 06:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjCi2xLRgZQ

about this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/sessions-discussed-trump-campaign-related-matters-with-russian-ambassador-us-intelligence-intercepts-show/2017/07/21/3e704692-6e44-11e7-9c15-177740635e83_story.html?utm_term=.0246b51d7c7c

Why isn't the FBI going after these leakers?

Also see the segment at 10:22
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 03:01:51 PM by Crafty_Dog » Logged
G M
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« Reply #228 on: July 22, 2017, 02:57:32 PM »


A very good question.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #229 on: July 22, 2017, 03:42:00 PM »

Did Trump Make A Big Concession To Putin At G20?
By DICK MORRIS
Published on DickMorris.com on July 21, 2017
At the recent G20 meeting in Hamburg this month, Russian dictator Vladimir Putin met on the side with President Trump for what they called an "informal" fifteen minute session.  Press reports indicate that they discussed "adoptions."

Presumably, this refers to the Russian ban on American adoptions of Russian infants that was enacted in 2012 to retaliate against the United States for new sanctions imposed by the Congress on Russians.  The sanctions, called the Magnitsky Act, were voted to punish individual Russians who were complicit in the jailhouse murder of Sergei Magnitsky, a lawyer who was arrested after exposing hundreds of millions of dollars of corruption by Putin.
 
At the time of the adoption ban, Russia was the third most popular country for infant adoptions with almost 1,000 adoptions each year.

Putin wants the Magnitsky Act repealed by Congress.  Human rights activist Bill Browder wants them extended to 280 new Russians who he says were complicit in the persecution, arrest, and murder of Sergei Magnitsky or in the corruption he exposed.

To say that they discussed "adoptions" is a euphemism for the fact that they likely talked about repealing the Magnitsky Act.  Because Magnitsky's charges of corruption were personally leveled at Putin and perhaps because he might have been involved in the murder, the Russian leader has pushed hard for it repeal.

The push to weaken the Magnitsky Act interfaces with the charges that Trump and Putin conspired to fix the U.S. election.  The Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya and her countryman, lobbyist Rinat Akhmetshin, both were hired as lobbyists for a Foundation pushing for repeal of the Magnitsky Act.  And they were also both present at the now famous meeting with Trump's son and also raised the issue of "adoptions" with him.

To add to the mix, Fusion GPS, the negative research firm that hired former British spy Christopher Steele to dig up dirt on Trump, also worked to lobby against the Magnitsky Act.

So, we are driven to ask the question:  Did Trump promise Putin to weaken -- or at least not expand -- the Magnitsky Act?

The fact that Putin's lobbyists raised the Magnitsky Act with Trump Jr. and now that the dictator himself brought it up with the president, shows how important the question is to Putin personally.   If Trump relented and gave in to Putin on the issue, it is a very big deal indeed.

The media, so far, has not penetrated beyond the description of the meeting as being about "adoptions" to get at the real issue beneath.
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G M
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« Reply #230 on: July 22, 2017, 04:28:16 PM »

Ok, my eyes are glazing over. Russian adoptions? Who exactly gives a rat's ass?

Did Trump Make A Big Concession To Putin At G20?
By DICK MORRIS
Published on DickMorris.com on July 21, 2017
At the recent G20 meeting in Hamburg this month, Russian dictator Vladimir Putin met on the side with President Trump for what they called an "informal" fifteen minute session.  Press reports indicate that they discussed "adoptions."

Presumably, this refers to the Russian ban on American adoptions of Russian infants that was enacted in 2012 to retaliate against the United States for new sanctions imposed by the Congress on Russians.  The sanctions, called the Magnitsky Act, were voted to punish individual Russians who were complicit in the jailhouse murder of Sergei Magnitsky, a lawyer who was arrested after exposing hundreds of millions of dollars of corruption by Putin.
 
At the time of the adoption ban, Russia was the third most popular country for infant adoptions with almost 1,000 adoptions each year.

Putin wants the Magnitsky Act repealed by Congress.  Human rights activist Bill Browder wants them extended to 280 new Russians who he says were complicit in the persecution, arrest, and murder of Sergei Magnitsky or in the corruption he exposed.

To say that they discussed "adoptions" is a euphemism for the fact that they likely talked about repealing the Magnitsky Act.  Because Magnitsky's charges of corruption were personally leveled at Putin and perhaps because he might have been involved in the murder, the Russian leader has pushed hard for it repeal.

The push to weaken the Magnitsky Act interfaces with the charges that Trump and Putin conspired to fix the U.S. election.  The Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya and her countryman, lobbyist Rinat Akhmetshin, both were hired as lobbyists for a Foundation pushing for repeal of the Magnitsky Act.  And they were also both present at the now famous meeting with Trump's son and also raised the issue of "adoptions" with him.

To add to the mix, Fusion GPS, the negative research firm that hired former British spy Christopher Steele to dig up dirt on Trump, also worked to lobby against the Magnitsky Act.

So, we are driven to ask the question:  Did Trump promise Putin to weaken -- or at least not expand -- the Magnitsky Act?

The fact that Putin's lobbyists raised the Magnitsky Act with Trump Jr. and now that the dictator himself brought it up with the president, shows how important the question is to Putin personally.   If Trump relented and gave in to Putin on the issue, it is a very big deal indeed.

The media, so far, has not penetrated beyond the description of the meeting as being about "adoptions" to get at the real issue beneath.

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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #231 on: July 23, 2017, 04:10:36 PM »

Not directly on point, but worth noting:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/16/russia-fights-us-fracking-using-shell-company-to-f/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWVdSalpUQTNNMll3WVdZeCIsInQiOiJINlVCRmZJSHVPOVN2VW5TVGczYXluOHQ2UmZJeE9HcjBhQWNNK1p4TWI0NHk2dXhvZmRrajA2blBtZ0t3ZGVRd2M2TEtqcVZUa3Uyc21sUGZraWhQcnZGUG1KY09ibk1wQXVXTDFBQmxhUzlxZm00dmxQb2xaSW1QOUdTRHhBTCJ9
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #232 on: July 24, 2017, 02:51:58 PM »

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/kushnerstatement0724.pdf
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