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Author Topic: The Politics of Health Care  (Read 343934 times)
G M
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« Reply #1550 on: March 22, 2017, 10:01:41 PM »

The rinos love to act as the Washington Generals as the dems play as the Globetrotters.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/biden-defends-obamacare-hill-republican-leaders-hunt-votes-n737086

The problem is with the Republicans

major majority and still probably can't get bill passed .  OF course *every single crat* is against.

I would like for it to pass for the sake of the party .  i don't love the bill but we need to get this first step passed.

As far as my point of view as a physician I have no care one way or another though .  It is all back and forth BS with me plodding on.



There sure are a lot of "Republicans" (cough)... from Blue (or almost Blue) states in the list of 29 who don't support the rest of the GOP.

Here are the House Republicans who are either against the bill or leaning against it. NBC News will update this list:

Jim Jordan (R-OH)

Mark Meadows (R-NC)

Justin Amash (R-MI)

Dave Brat (R-VA)

Raul Labrador (R-ID)

Mo Brooks (R-AL)

Rob Wittman (R-VA)

Thomas Massie (R-KY)

Tom Garrett (R-VA)

Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL)

Leonard Lance (R-NJ)

Mark Amodei (R-NV)

Jim Bridenstine (R-OK)

Louie Gohmert (R-TX)

John Katko (R-NY)

Brian Fitzpatrick (R-PA)

Walter Jones (R-NC)

Ted Budd (R-NC)

Mark Sanford (R-SC)

Rick Crawford (R-AR)

Ted Yoho (R-FL)

Scott DesJarlais (R-TN)

Warren Davidson (R-OH)

Paul Gosar (R-AZ)

Rod Blum (R-Iowa)

Andy Harris (R-MD)

Dan Donovan (R-NY)

Frank LoBiondo (R-NJ)

David Young (R-IA)

Bold being solidly BLUE, Underlined being generally Blue except for the last presidential election, and italicized being true battleground states, showing at least 14 very problamatic people on that list that are either bold or underlined.



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DDF
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« Reply #1551 on: March 22, 2017, 10:04:31 PM »

The rinos love to act as the Washington Generals as the dems play as the Globetrotters.


Yes they do.... I'm curious what the demographic particulars of their individual districts look like.

I almost don't even have to look it up... but since I'm bored and the wife isn't home...  grin grin grin
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 10:10:29 PM by DDF » Logged

Do not fear going anywhere, nor doing anything. You will die where you are supposed to.
G M
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« Reply #1552 on: March 22, 2017, 10:11:09 PM »

The rinos love to act as the Washington Generals as the dems play as the Globetrotters.


Yes they do.... I'm curious what the demographic particulars are of their individual districts look like.

I almost don't even have to look it up... but since I'm bored and the wife isn't home...  grin grin grin

I don't think it's the demographics as much as it's the DC uniparty power structure.
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #1553 on: March 23, 2017, 09:14:43 PM »

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/325568-trump-tells-gop-to-take-it-or-leave-it-on-obamacare-repeal
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ccp
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« Reply #1554 on: March 24, 2017, 06:42:33 AM »

The doctor who during a meeting I was in who said he thought the Repubs would not be ABLE to repeal Obamster  care because of this simple phrase:  "20 million people will lose their insurance"

Ryan terrified and inept at dealing with this is giving as a lite alternative that makes EVERYONE unhappy.

Just wait till we get to  the tax cut issue.  We will not be able to access the internet or turn on a TV without hearing "tax cuts for the rich" on the wall to wall liberal MSM day and night.

Why can I not be justifiably angry that so many people in this country are getting something for nothing while I struggle for 5 months a year to pay for it.  Why do I NEVER have a voice?  Why is there no one who will stand up for me?  Why am I always taken for granted? 

Rush Limbaugh acknowledged a caller last week made a GREAT point as to why he thought Trump has such strong backing from a group of people..  These are the people who day in and day out pay INTO a system and never get ANYTHING back and are constantly forced to hear about everyone else's sob stories.  All the other "victims" and identity BS.

Trump was the closest thing to giving us for the first time in 29 years a voice.  (flawed for sure but at least a voice nonetheless)  Including us in "America".  Not the world but us here all together in America. 

And then Ryan Republicans just refuse to fight for this concept.
Instead we get Republican social engineering which is a loser anyway.



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DougMacG
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« Reply #1555 on: March 24, 2017, 10:53:39 AM »

ccp:  The doctor who during a meeting I was in who said he thought the Repubs would not be ABLE to repeal Obamster  care because of this simple phrase:  "20 million people will lose their insurance"

An exchange on this thread Oct-Nov, 2016:
Gruber:"The main goal of Obamacare was two-fold. One was to cover the uninsured, of which we’ve covered 20 million, the largest expansion in American history. The other was to fix broken insurance markets where insurers could deny people insurance just because they were sick or they had been sick."

Crafty: Name me a Rep who answers this cogently and tell me what he says.
-----------------------------------------------------

It was 100% foreseeable and unavoidable all along that you would be accused of taking health insurance away for 20 million if you "repeal Obamacare lock, stock and barrel".

Any pure conservative, libertarian or federalist can see that health insurance is not the domain of the federal government for a host of reasons.  And any honest historian can tell you that we have not only never ended a major entitlement after it is in effect, have we ever even cut the growth rate of one?!   CBO was wrong on Medicaid by 17-fold as it grew and expanded.

At the very minimum, moving forward on repeal/reform requires consensus of 50% plus one vote of the House, 50 Senators and the White House.  A pure view that the federal government has no business at all in health care may be exactly right but isn't going to ever reach that threshold, no matter what Ted Cruz and the Freedom caucus say.  Do any of them say they have the votes?

Pointing out that the 20 million is really 10 million, http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=1411.msg102499#msg102499, or that more than 20 million lost their policies because of Obamacare doesn't make the question go away, what are you going to do about the 20 million (that is really 10 million) that will lose their healthcare if Obamacare is repealed?

Republicans propose tax credits - violation of our principles, new entitlement.  Another option is a transition period, two year delay or phase-out.  It still begs the question, what are we going to do with the 20 million (10 million)?

It partly comes down to policy and it partly comes to surrendering the war of messenging over the last over the last 8 (or 100) years.

To the naysayers of the Ryan and Trump plan, you better do something because doing nothing is worse and will truly lead to socialized medicine if not stopped now.

And to the writers of the Ryan and Trump 3-part plan, this better be good - and prove the naysayers wrong.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 11:03:45 AM by DougMacG » Logged
DougMacG
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« Reply #1556 on: March 24, 2017, 12:03:52 PM »

Addressing another point from ccp: 
...Why can I not be justifiably angry that so many people in this country are getting something for nothing while I struggle for 5 months a year to pay for it.  Why do I NEVER have a voice?  Why is there no one who will stand up for me?  Why am I always taken for granted? ...


ccp, You (we) will NEVER win the political argument that taxes are unfair to the productive and relatively well-paid.  It has to be won on the other side of it.  Big government and all these spending programs are hurting the beneficiaries.  Look at the inner city, the war on poverty and the cycle of dependence and perpetual low income created.  With SSI, Section 8, food stamps, FAFSA and on and on including Obamacare, recipients essentially enter a contract with the government to stay poor or lose benefits.  As the benefits get larger and larger, the contract to be permanently low income becomes unbreakable.

People on the cusp of receiving or losing benefits face a far higher than a 100% marginal tax rate, making the earning of the next dollar of income a very bad economic decision.  They can make $500 or a thousand more and lose tens of thousands of benefits.  They would need to more than double or triple their income to replace what they will lose, and that is not instantly possible.  Crucial rungs of the economic ladder just above them were torn out by our entitlement system.  Obamacare, unrepealed, brings permanent dependency to millions more people.  The rich will need to make more and more to pay for it or it folds and people with currently lower incomes get locked into lower incomes long term.  Who does that help?

The poor in America had free health care before Obamacare - and after it, if repealed.  Obamacare was aimed primarily at the second quintile, to subsidize comprehensive healthcare for those who work for modest incomes and don't get employer healthcare.  It was also aimed at taking the opportunity to enact an irreversible federal government takeover of the whole system that would eventually lead to whatever you want to call it, single, federal government payer, universal care, socialized medicine.

How do you explain to those losing their O'care subsidy is in their best interest?  That where they were paying $100 of an $800 policy, and now will pay 799 because of some minor deregulation will help them?  It is a tough sell.  That is why you look for a wedge in the opposite direction of the ones planted by the left. 

You must make it possible and desirable for them to make more income and rise out of subsidy.  The rising tide, JFK called it.  You make it beneficial for them to make more and more income, not punishing at the lower end (or at the high end).  You make it legal and possible for them to buy less expensive healthcare policies to cover basic needs while they raise their incomes to pay for larger plans if they want them.  You take the part of the cost out of it that is paying for someone else's care, young paying for the old etc.  Your policy cost covers you and your risks, not the ills of the system.  We need to message better.  We are not replacing a system that works; we are replacing a system that already failed, is unfunded and in a death spiral. 

Create an environment where people want to be off the dole, not on it.  If we can accomplish that in less than 100 years, we are doing better than anyone thought possible.  In the meantime, dismantle this new entitlement the best you before it gets any further entrenched.

This isn't going to be easier later.
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ccp
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« Reply #1557 on: March 26, 2017, 11:34:28 AM »

http://www.dickmorris.com/house-revolt-revolting/
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Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #1558 on: March 26, 2017, 02:28:10 PM »

Bill developed behind closed doors with a couple of add-ons patched on. Ryan introduced the bill before the CBO had scored it.  CBO's number of 24 million to lose coverage was devastating (also assertion the Ocare was not imploding)-- Reps had no political response.  Sec HHS Price said next to nothing about what he would do for Phase Two and no one said anything specific about Phase Three.  The bill had 17% support from the public.

Now the devastation that comes should be laid at the feet of those responsible for Ocare.

==========================

https://alibertarianfuture.com/big-government/healthcare-obamacare/house-freedom-caucus-endorsed-rand-paul-obamacare-replacement-bill/

« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 02:37:03 PM by Crafty_Dog » Logged
Crafty_Dog
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« Reply #1559 on: March 26, 2017, 07:32:19 PM »

Second post

http://www.aei.org/publication/the-little-death-spiral-that-couldnt/?utm_source=paramount&utm_medium=email&utm_content=AEITODAY&utm_campaign=032217
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