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the titles of the teachers in the fillipino martial arts ("Kali")

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logan:
a little question about the "titles" in fma.

i only know guro means teacher, like sifu in the chinese
martial arts. but what for example means: punong guro?

and had the phillipinos also terms for trainingspartner?
(like si-hing in chinese). or grandmaster? and are the titles/names
in the different parts of the phillipines the same?

thanks for answering  
greetings bobi  
(gladius et codex)

Anonymous:
there's really no title that's indigenous to filipino martial arts.  in the 1800s and early 1900s, eskrimadors (spanish for fencers, as they were called by their spanish counterparts) fought amongst themselves.  they did this either for money, survival, etc ect.  when these eskrimadors began teaching their art or styles to students, they were challenged.  this i guess was their way of 'quality control'.  

titles such as 'guru', 'punong guro', etc. were reserved for religious teachers (the title itself came from sanskrit).  titles such as 'punong guru' and 'grandmaster' were unnecessary because styles and arts were passed down through family.  there's no need to call your uncle, grandfather, or father 'guru' or 'grandmaster'.

the words 'guru' and 'kali' are new words introduced in the 60s and 70s to filipinize filipino martial arts.  'punong guru' or 'tuhon' were used arbitrarily to replace the english 'grandmaster'.  'kali' was introduced in the 70s also to replace the words eskrima and arnis, which are spanish.  interestingly, these replacement of words began in the u.s.-- not the philippines.  guro and tuhon are words with religious connotations, while the word kali seems to have no anthropological, cultural, historical basis.  kali has now come to be associated with the more blade oriented styles.

Anonymous:
Woof B

  It seems to be a tradition in FMA to have terminology disputes with near religous fervor.  To this American, it often seems analogous to an American and a Mexican over the word "negro".  For one it is considered an unpleasant racial term, for the other it means "black".  What an odd debate that would be!

  Terminology is certainly not a forte of mine, but I do know that when i trained with Edgar Sulite, as the founder of Lameco, he used the term "Punong Guro".  It might be translated as "Grandmaster" or "teacher of teachers-- master teacher"

  Concerning Kali, there seem to be many Filipinos of the opinion of our anonymous guest, and certainly its use is a minority one, but I am of the opinion that the term does have proper lineage.  This point having been debated many, many, many times before I am uninterested to go into yet again.  In that we use the term Kali, I merely note this diversity of opinion for your awareness.

HTH,
Crafty Dog

logan:
hello crafty, hello "guest" thanks for answering.

okay then it have no standard "titles" in the fma.

i only know that in wing chun the terminology is very
important, also stuff like pictures in the trainingsroom......
and so on. i heard the phillipino teachers handle this
easyier. titles are not so important. i only ask,
because im interrested in the thinking and the roots
of the phillipino-practioners. not to discuss about
things that have no end (like: is arnis a better name
than escrima? ...).

have somebody else some infos?

ahooo! bobi
ps: (sorry for the bad english... :-))

Anonymous:
logan,
i think japanese, chinese, and korean martial arts focus on lineage because of confucianism.  just a theory.  you see, if you also go to east asian households, you'll also see photos of 'ancestors'.  so culturally, they are predisposed to lineages.

filipino culture, however, cares not for 'ancestor' worship.  every generation is tested, not relying on history.

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