Dog Brothers Public Forum
DBMA Martial Arts Forum => Martial Arts Topics => Topic started by: Kaju Dog on March 10, 2007, 03:06:57 PM
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As this will be my first DB's gathering and I plan on fighting, I am curious about the amount of experienced fighters that will be participating. I know that this poll does not give one a true idea of a fighters background or experience. However, I am curious about how many "Gathering of the pack" first timers plan on fighting.
V/R,
Dean
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hey Dean, if all goes well, my self and three others are coming. for one of them it will be the second time. the other two are noobs.
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hey Dean, if all goes well, my self and three others are coming. for one of them it will be the second time. the other two are noobs.
Hope to see you all there... To me its all about meeting like minded people and learning from the experiences as a whole. "Friends at the end of the day"
8-)
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i am not trying to sound like an "old hand" because i only made it to one previously, but i think you will have a blast and meet some truly "real" people. i am so stoked already i am vibrating. i had such a good time.
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I'm in a bit of a weird place. I've fought at 2 gatherings before, but they've both been in europe.
So it's not my 1st gathering, but it is a first for me.
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Getting the most from your Gathering Experience
I paraphrase Crafty "Just show up." More specifically "90% of life is just showing up." Just getting out there is a feat. But you have to fight opponents better than you, guys equal, and yes opponents who are not as good as you. Some of us try to find guys who are not as good as we are. You also have to fight opponents who are smaller sized, equal sized and BIGGER than you. That is why we have the privilege of having a weapon. For some of us that is hard. I consider myself right in the middle. So I can pick or be picked by guys on either side of the spectrum.
I will relay a story. For anyone who doesn't know, there was a fellow, 240, 6'2, known as Dogzilla who also went by names like the "Juggernaut." At one of the Gatherings, he went around asking for fights. He is a very polite, soft spoken person. Persons would either walk away as he came up knowing what he was going to ask or simply decline. There was another person. Greg Van Zuyen- as he was known at the time. 140 lb with change in his pockets, artist. Not much experience under his belt. As relayed to me from Dogzilla- Greg walks all the way across the mat, around and through several groups of guys and walks straight to him. "Wanna Fight?"
Dogzilla politely declined (Dogzilla wanted to really mix it up that day and thought he might hurt him, no arrogance- just fact). But said "he was the only guy who asked him for a fight that day."
This forum, The Gathering, is meant to gather experience. It is there for you - so grab it. Certainly, some days we feel braver and more fit than others. It is a career, a stickfighting career. Get em next time. Just make sure there is a next time.
I look forward to your ideas and opinions
Pappydog
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WOOF!!!
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Woof, Nice post Pappydog!! Very well said.
I have a story kinda like that onley different........
Different that in my case I was the bigger fighter, but when asked by Lonley dog to fight I was too afraid.
I regret that to this day, and hope to someday have the privledge of fighting (IMHO) one of the top fighters in DBMA.
I'am still afraid, but the privlidege and honor it would be, is something I hope will be a stronger motivator, than the fear is a detractor.
In other words I hope someday this happens. :cry:
Tom
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I have a story kinda like that onley different........
Different that in my case I was the bigger fighter,
I had a similar experience at my first gathering!
Along the same lines: With the cattle prod fight we did in the last gathering I had trouble finding anyone who wanted to venture into the unknown with me. When Tom contacted me I was unsure of who he was and his physical attributes. I was afraid as well that he would be some giant that I just sent a virtual hand shake to! He was one of the smaller fighters I have fought and let me attest that smaller and lighter doesn't always mean an easier fight. :wink: I can remember my fight with Justin Hall being the same way :-D I think for future gatherings I am going to continue to look for technical fighters who can push me but are not out of my class on either end of the spectrum. I have finally had the chance to watch a lot of fighters and think I have a good idea of who would be good matches in gatherings to come. WOW, I'm getting excited just thinking about it!
Gruhn
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My top student posted a quote on my forum that I feel is appropriate to insert here... Not sure who said it first but I heard it from him.
"I can live with loosing a good fight, but I can not live without fighting it."
Looking forward to seeing you all soon 8-) and thank you for sharing...
V/R,
Dean
PS
Im bringing my med bag, feel free to use the contents on me if/when I am in need... :-P
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Dean,
Would you mind listing the basics of your bag? It would be cool to know what is on hand.
Gruhn
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Dean,
Would you mind listing the basics of your bag? It would be cool to know what is on hand.
Gruhn
Hold on, here we go:
Hemorage control -
Tourniquets, Quick Clot, Various sizes of battle dressings, kurlex (gauze), cravats (triangle bandages), suture supplies, skin stappler, chest seals, occlusive dressings, 4x4's 2x2's, telfa non-stick pads.
Airway -
Emergency Cricothyroidotomy kit, Entubation tubes, Nasopharangeal airways, Oralpharangeal airways, manual sucktion device, Ambu bag, pocket mask, needle thorcentesis kit.
Circulation -
IV bags, Normal saleen, lactated ringers. Tubing and cathaters...
Vital signs -
Pulse ox, thermometer, BP cuff, Stethascope
C-spine -
C-collars
Fractures -
Sams splints, finger splints
Sprains/strains -
Ace wraps, ice packs.
Burns -
Water gel (burn wraps), seran wrap, silver sulfadiazine 1% burn cream.
Pain meds, lidocain & antibiotics, sorry guys no narcotics... Bring your own presciptions.
MedEvac
Litter/stretcher
Thats just one of my bags...
Oh yeah, band aids, steri strips and skin glue.
If you have any requests let me know...
I would be happy to teach a quick Emergency Tactical Trauma Patient Assesment set... I've been the Tactical Combat Casualty Care senior instructor for the last 2 years and have taught/certified over 1,000 MARINES. Not to mention perfomed Combat Casualty care while serving in Iraq. They even gave me some fancy chest candy for it... :|
I enjoy helping others and love to teach, but not as much as I love to learn. "Watch it, Learn it, Live it, Teach it"
Maybe a quick class before I get broken would be good.... Or if there is someone else qualified (I know I wont be the only medically trained there), introduce me to em and they can use my supplies as needed... Goodtimes!
Oh, and I will be bringing Med training aids for Crafty. :-D
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Razors to shave hair away from cuts would be a nice addition. :-)
Gruhn
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Razors to shave hair away from cuts would be a nice addition. :-)
Gruhn
Got em - just forgot to list em... Trauma shears, tweezers, scalpul, all the usual tools, eye patches, eye drops, anti-fungal creme, bacitracen, H.E.E.N.T. kit, dental lidocain, rubber malet & medical tape too.
See, now you got me thinking. Im not trying to come across sarcastic, Im just pretty obsessive compulsive or "anal" (as my brotheren say) when it comes to being prepared. Yep, all in one bag... I might bring a couple other bags just in case. :lol:
It's realy not recomended to shave the area anymore... Just trim the hair down close to the skin. Shaving increases risk of infections (ie ingrown hairs during the healing stages)
Good eye... Thanks for catching that. 8-)
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Dean:
Please consider contributing as much as you like on this thread:
http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=1178.0
Thank you,
CD
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Dean:
Please consider contributing as much as you like on this thread:
http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=1178.0
Thank you,
CD
My bad Crafty... Got off on a tangent here. I am working on some good useful knowledge for the appropriate thread.
V/R,
Dean
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Not a tangent, quite the contrary-- it is quite relevant to the Gathering. I'm just hoping you will continue to contribute in this vein and was letting you know where to do it were you so inclined.
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The gathering is a learning experiance, and like Nick says,
"But you have to fight opponents better than you, guys equal, and yes opponents who are not as good as you."
It is a perfect example of how much and how hard you really want to test yourself. I look at the gathering is more of a test of yourself than of your skills. To see if you can be present with the high levels of agression and adrenaline. To keep your brain thinking rather than just reacting is a feat. Its a feat not matched anyway else in competetive combat sports. My opinion of course.
I have a funny gathering story about looking for fights and taking fights that you are in no way ready for. To illustrate the point that at a gathering even though you may be out classed by the guy on the other side of the mat your safe (safe being a realitive term while talking about gatherings :wink: )
As my second gathering was drawing to a close and I was pretty beat Top came up to me and asked if I'd like to fight. Now as far as I knew he didn't ask people to fight, so of course being the naive 20year old that I was I said yes. Little did I know that I was played, right after I agreed he sent me out on the mat to fight Chris "true dog" Clifton. I was in no way ready to fight someone like Chris. But I did and he knew how nervous I was and even though he def had the better of the fight and I took some shots he never brought it to the level of seriously hurting me.
That fight is what really hooked me on the gatherings. Since then we have fought 2 more times, both ending slightly quicker and more painfully, but I keep coming back. You may get hurt, but its never going to break your spirit. Thats whats so special about it.
Anyway I can't wait for june.
Greg
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Woof Dog Greg, Much props for taking that fight, the first time and your courage to fight true dog 2 times to follow.
True dog is one tough cookie and someone to be feared.
Hats off!
Speaking of true dog.......was he at the Nov. gathering......seems hes missing? Anyone know whats become of him?
Tom
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1. "Let's go out there and hurt each other a little bit." I always say something like this to my training partner before we go out and fight. I always try to get them to laugh with me before we step out there and hit each other with sticks. I was just realizing right now that I don't know what word to use to refer to the other men who fight with me during the Gatherings. What's the right word? Partner/brother/warrior? All seem appropriate. "Opponent" doesn't seem right. I don't mean to disrespect the warriors I have fought or will fight in June. They give me MAJOR game and I have been "killed" many times. I know that using the word "opponent" might be helpful to put me in a more aggressive mental state. The problem is that if I really try to think of my partner as someone who is threatening my family and I use that, there might be a little hate in my heart. I don't think that this would turn all 5'7" of me into a "mindless killing machine" (I'm more Jack Russell Terrier than a Doberman anyways), but Gatherings have nothing to do with hate. At the same time, I want to respect my opponent and give him a chance to test himself. It's a fine line to walk. I have wondered many times after a fight if I am aggressive enough for DBMA.
2. What I really love about the Gatherings is that they are a good model for how the world should be: two men with aggression realize that aggression exists and they go and use that aggression to test themselves and to grow. After the fight ends, while it might seem like a terrible cliche, both men have won because they know themselves better. Wouldn't it be great if all of the stupid people in the stupid places doing stupid things (Guru Crafty's expression) could fight in the same way? One young man with no healthy outlet for his aggression says something dumb to another young man. The second young man hits him in the face and the first young man realizes what he said was wrong. They argue over who should buy the beer and they both feel like they know themselves better. No one calls their friends or pulls out a knife. Maybe it's wrong to dream about a utopia but maybe that's a vision that's tied into the heart of DBMA.
P.S. Most of my posts always come back to how we can use the martial arts to improve the state of the world. I teach junior high in a fairly tough neighborhood. If only some of my students would hit each other with sticks once in a while. They would be a lot happier! I look forward to hurting and getting hurt a little bit by some of you in June.
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I've always used the term "Blood Brother" for people who I have fought :-D This actually came from my first fight where I fought one of Sled Dog's boys in a no rules tournament and Tuhon Gaje & Guro I. were the judges. After the fight I turned to Tuhon Gaje and Guro I. to show my respect and Gaje smiled and told me (I wish I could have remembered this verbatim) to go over and give my new blood brother a hug 8-) It stuck with me from there on.
Woof!
Gruhn
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Woof, I like this thread so far......Guys talking about their gathering experiences gives some insight and helps with how others may feel about this event. Anyway.......
When I was prepairing for my first gathering, I was doing a lot of chattering moslty on the members sight.....fear being the bigger factor.
I was asking Guro Crafty if it would be ok to just do a knife fight, he and others strongly discouraged me from this, which I was ultimatly glad he did I fought two stick fights that day.
The thing is to not onley go there and fight but to test ones self under a multitude of conditions, one of which is to fight and be able to function when dinged up.....after a fight or more than one fight......So for me. my personal challenge is to also fight as many fights as I can in one day(not counting knife) also against good opponents or opponents that will push me.
Soooo.....My question is how many STICK fights have you been able to pull of in a single gathering.
My best is a frustrating two at two gatherings.
I hope to do better this June :-P.......
TG
P.S. In my first fight last June I fought a pretty good opponent and he dinged me considerably, but I seemed to learn a lot from that fight, and one thing I found was even though I was getting hit a lot I was still functional and fighting.
For me huge growth in that.
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Woof, Since no one has yet responded to my previous post, I'am guessing that by asking for the number of stick fights fought at a single gahtering was the wrong approach to what I was actually looking for.
It was NOT intended to be a one upsmanship thing where one person would brag about fighting 3 fights and another 4 and so on and on.
Having onley fought in two gatherings and having fought onely two stick fights per gathering I certainly have nothing to brag about.
My thought was to have fighters express their growth as fighters, and things they have learned not onley from fighting, but also from experiencing adverse conditions such as going back out to fight after maybe not doing so well the previous fight or when really tired or slightly injured ect. ect.
That kinda thing.
I have always felt and exeperienced most growth when I have been out of my comfort zone and been forced to experience things I may not in a normal situation have chosen or liked to have experienced but survived it anyway.........
Hope to hear some from gahtering experiences.
TG
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It isn't a bad question. 1 to 8 fights. I usually fight 1 to 4 fights. Have never done more than that. Stick fights is what I am referring to. Top dog I have seen do 8. I am most pleased with myself when I do 4. However, 2 good fights are 2 good fights. The first fight is good to get out there and if I stop there I feel I have short changed myself. Top and Salty used to say after 2 you are warmed and ready for your good fights. It is all personal. For me, the fights are what train for. The experience that I gain from them is what I bring back to the classroom and use to augment my training.
Nick
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In Dog Brothers lore, we speak of the founding of the Dog Brothers in Ramblas Park in San Clemente in 1988 (The Rumble in Ramblas). With one or two exceptions, everyone there fought about 7 fights a day for three consecutive days. On day one, it was hard sparring. By day three it was hard fighting. One fighter who showed up on the third day was definitely at a disadvantage. Salty has spoken of the importance of having a period where one does a lot of fighting and getting to the point where it seems normal.
Amongst the many things I have always admired about Top Dog was the number of fights he could take in a day. Back in 2001 in his seventh fight of the day he fought a very formidable man who had had only one easy fight.
Salty Dog too was capable of a very high number of fights in one day. He and Top Dog would go at it in Santa Fe NM or Long Beach CA for consecutive days. Very impressive.
For me, 4-5 was a good number, but this often dropped to 3 when Top and Salty were on sabbatical for several years and not only did I have to guide the Gathering (e.g. this group was feeling testy with that group, someone was sneaking videos, etc) but I was Ringmaster, coaching my students and fighting as the "name" fighter for the DBs.
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For myself 3 stick fights is a nice good number, but sometimes you just don't know. I remember fighting one gathering where in my first fight I fought a friend of mine, and even though I had more experience than he did we just had a war that seemed to go on forever, I spent the remainder of the afternoon sucking wind and trying to stop my head from bleeding.
Marc
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Woof Pappydog, Seems as I remember you having somthing to do with this....... Tastes like chicken if I remember correctly :-D.
http://dogbrothers.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=2061
TG
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War Dog just called me to say he is fighting! 8-)
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Guro, Did you get my e-mail about the gathering?
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Yes, and all is well with what you said. Email me again please.
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You've got mail again :-D
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A Howl of Greeting:
The rhythm of the seasons is with us and its time for the "Summer Dog Brothers Gathering of the Pack". On behalf of the Council of Elders of the Dog Brothers, Dog Brothers Inc. Martial Arts hereby cordially invites all people of good spirit to its "Dog Brothers Summer Gathering of the Pack" at 11:00 AM on Sunday, June 24, 2007 at the R-1 Gym in El Segundo to conclude when the fighters are done.
Many of you may remember our Gatherings held in the park in Hermosa Beach, which, although they were hosted at considerable expense, were always free to you our friends, our guests. However with a private facility involved we now need to charge admission of $15. We ask that you still consider yourselves to be our friends and our guests. In this context we ask that you respect our wishes in the matter of Video.
It is very simple:
NO VIDEO CAMERAS, NO DUAL PURPOSE CAMERAS (i.e. with both still photo and video capabilities). THIS MATTER IS OF IMPORTANCE TO US! And, if you see someone videoing, please don't let them abuse our hospitality-please let us know.
As always, you may take photographs for personal, non-commercial use PROVIDED you give us a complete set of the ones you take. Thanks to the increasing numbers of you who actually remember and bother to do this! It is very much appreciated!
The Magic Words:
The MAGIC WORDS: "No judges, no referees, no trophies. One rule only: Be friends at the end of the day. This means our goal is that no one spends the night in the hospital. Our goal is that everyone leaves with the IQ with which they came. No suing no one for no reason for nothing no how no way! Real Contact Stickfighting is Dangerous and only you are responsible for you. Protect yourself at all times. All copyright belongs to Dog Brothers Inc. CA law applies."
This matter of accepting the risk applies to those of you in the crowd too. For example, sticks, and fights for that matter, may go flying into the crowd. Parents should consider things like this in deciding whether a child is old enough to bring along and/or deciding on from where to observe the event. For example, sitting on the heavy bags ringing the fighting area is a really risky idea for a child (or adult for that matter). If a stick or a fight comes careening your way-get out of the way!
This matter of copyright is of particular importance with this Gathering. It is looks likely that Original Productions (who did the "Pilot" clip you see on our front page) will be recording the day as part of a one hour documentary that will appear on National Geographic! OP will be at the door with some sort of legal release giving it permission to have you (fighters & audience members) appear in the documentary, not sue them, etc. OP also will be looking to interview some of the fighters for the documentary.
Assuming the deal with OP/Nat Geo comes together, the Gathering may be held in a warehouse owned by OP in the Burbank area. I have seen it and it seems like a very promising location. Director Dan Jackson will be working with me to assure that the fighting area is everything that it should be and seating and viewing conditions should be very good.
At this Gathering, we will continue starting the knife fights with a handshake and the knives undrawn. Again we encourage you to fight knife versus stick-- the stick versus electric knife fight last time was a great success and the electric knife will again be available. Stick vs. knife has been one of perennial questions of the FMA, so let's continue the research!
Remember that you may fight with weapons other than a stick if you can find someone willing to go against you. Please consider staff, double stick, and anything else. In order to more deeply explore certain variables, fighters may agree to "no grappling" rules. In staff fights, the fighters may wear wrestling type ear guards under the fencing masks.
There is no charge for fighters but FIGHTERS MUST PRE-REGISTER, even if they have fought before. WE WILL BE RUTHLESS ON THIS! The Fighter's Registration form can be found on the website and must be filled out whether you have fought before or not. For all Fighter Registration matters, please contact Cindy at info@dogbrothers.com 310-540-6853. You are not registered until your name appears on the list of registered fighters on the website!!!
As I write this (March 26th) we already have 22 fighters listed (from throught the US, Canada, Switzerland, Germany, Great Britain, Australia) which is the most we have ever had this far in advance. With the probability of the Nat Geo documentary, as Gathering time approaches Cindy will be very busy. We strongly suggest that you register as far in advance as possible.
"Higher Consciousness through Harder Contact"
Crafty Dog
Guiding Force of the Dog Brothers
Dog Brothers Inc. Martial Arts
310-543-7521 (Remember, please use 310-540-6853 for matters concering registration)
Craftydog@Dogbrothers.com
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Guro Crafty, The summer gathering will indeed be held at the R-1 gym?
TG
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"Assuming the deal with OP/Nat Geo comes together, the Gathering may be held in a warehouse owned by OP in the Burbank area."
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We now have over 30 fighters registered. We have never had so many registered so far in advance. In addition to the US, we have fighters from Switzerland, Germany, Scotland, UK, Canada, Australia and Tahiti.
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40 in aug!!! And reading this makes my blood lust pump through me !!! I wish I could be there and sound like a delight full time he he he. Hey Tom Guthrie if you read this I'm about 35 min away from you!!! In Wadsworth Ohio and been doing kali since 1988 and looking for partners! Maybe we could team up and train and I been doing some sparing with my training partner and never been to a gathering but reading this wants me to quit my job and head for Cali to experience this myself. :-D I cant wait to hear about the results about this gathering. Mongo
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Woof Mongo Gary, You don't have to quit your job to experience the gathering. Its held on Sunday afternoon. Take a long weekend.....
Anyway if you want to try to get together send me a email = spinebuster77@yahoo.com we can see if our schedules match up at all.
Dog Tom/SB
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Yeah 8-), the poll now shows that I am no longer the only first time Gathering fighter! Im not alone... :wink:
I can stop howling at the moon now.
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At my second gathering I remember trying early in the day to find someone to fight against my nunchuk's. I wasn't having much luck. As the day went on I had a stickfight or two. Still no takers with the chuk,s. Next thing I hear is Marc getting ready to call it a day. I was so desperate for a fight I interupted Marc (no disrespect was intended) and loudly challenged anyone who was willing , to a fight as I swung my nunchaku over my head and walked down the row of fighters to make it clear what I was talking about.. There was a brief pause 5 seconds maybe and then I heard a familiar voice call out" Ill fight you " It was TOP DOG. I thought to myself, "Now I did it.. Me and my big mouth". I think Pappydog said it best when he said "It's like jumping out of an airplane when parachuting. Once you jump,there is no turning back". And yes, Top Dog was merciful. Much respect to all the fighters.
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Yeah, the poll now shows that I am no longer the only first time Gathering fighter! Im not alone...
I can stop howling at the moon now.
Thats right, you are not alone and neither am I. :-D
Just a question, what is everyones preference? Single, Double ... Staff??
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Cattle Prod! :-D
Gruhn
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Yeah, the poll now shows that I am no longer the only first time Gathering fighter! Im not alone...
I can stop howling at the moon now.
Thats right, you are not alone and neither am I. :-D
Just a question, what is everyones preference? Single, Double ... Staff??
I am leaning toward "stick vs knife", "stick and knife vs whatever", stick vs stick with optional knife to be employed as a secondary option at any point during the fight. But Naturaly, I am looking forward the sticks vs sticks (single/double whatever). Looking forward to the experience and getting some humble pie... :-P
"I can live with loosing a good fight, but I can't live without fighting it!"
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Cattle Prod! :-D
Gruhn
Ryan, how longs your cattle prod?
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Woof All:
We are up to 40 registered fighters! 8-) :-D 8-)
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I thought I should post this here as it may involve this gathering. Does this make it official ? http://www.origprod.com/theshows.htm
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Woof All:
It looks like we will be signing the deal with OP/Nat Geo tomorrow or Friday. Assuming this to be the case, the "DB Gathering of the Pack" will be held in OP's warehouse in Glendale.
I was there earlier today with director Dan Jackson. The plan is for the fight area to be 30x40 of wrestling mat. Any suggestions for how to define the perimeter?
The seating should be much better than the de minimis seating at R1. There were church pews there, there is talk of some bleachers, and some talk of scaffolding with planks-- a touch of "Thunderdome" :-D We're guesstimating that we should be able to hold 300+.
To be worked out is the fighters dinner afterwords. Options are: Somewhere up there in the Glendale area, down in the South Bay area (Hermosa Beach, Redondo Beach) or perhaps Torrance (the all you can eat sushi place where we traditionally have gone. Fighters, your thoughts please?
The Adventure continues!
Crafty Dog
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Wow this is going to be exciting!
Guro Crafty do you think that with the addition of camera lights it will have any effect on the mask like a small kind of glare? Will the crowd be sitting around the marked off area, with the fighters in the center and do we have to worry about getting backed into the crowd? Will there be a wall? Im just curious as this will be my first time :-D
On a non related note is San Tee or El Cajone very far?
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Woof Robert:
When OP shot the Nov 2005 Gathering we did not have any problems with glare on the masks reported.
Your question about a wall/getting backed into the crowd is a good one. It is what I was trying to get at when I said
" Any suggestions for how to define the perimeter?"
I liked the the way R1 had walls on two sides. Its good to have walls into which to crash! Maybe we should set the mats at OP's warehouse against one wall?
Location:
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&country=US&addtohistory=&searchtab=home&formtype=address&popflag=0&latitude=&longitude=&name=&phone=&level=&cat=&address=2435+N.+Naomi+St.&city=Burbank&state=CA&zipcode=91504
I have no idea where your "cajones" may be :lol: :lol: :lol: You might want to check the spelling on those two locations :wink:
TAC,
Crafty Dog
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OMG, I hope to bring them with me! LOL. I checked the spelling and I believe it is El Cajon.
Yes, I think a wall would be most enjoyable!!! How about all you other fighters?
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Woof all, Walls are good as long as your not the one running into them. lol. It also keeps a higher number of spectators out of harms way. Also: Robertlk808, I think El Cahone is about 2 hours south of Glendale. Depending on the amount of traffic it could take much longer. (maybe 1 hr or more) See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Cajon,_California
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Also: On the subject of boundaries. I think that boundary lines made up of heavy punching bags and/or rolled up mats placed (end to end) would work well. Placed in a manner that would trip up the fighters and also provide a safe soft landing would be great. It also provides a good buffer zone free of unknown objects such as glass bottles and the like. It would also give the spectators some measure of protection against fighters crashing into them. Even though it is understood that spectators enter at their own risk, I am sure we would all feel terrible if someone were to become seriously injured be it a fighter or spectator/children. :?
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This raises a good question:
Are children going to be allowed to come to this? Will OP allow it?
Gruhn
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Food for thought.
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I'm looking forward to this more & more :-D
How many fighters have registered now?
Are there any other female fighters or is it still just Lynne from the UK ?
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I just clicked on the registered fighters list and count 40.
At the moment Lynn is the only woman. If you think she's up for it and up to it, we'll let her do knife with the men.
With any luck, the deal with OP/Nat Geo signs tomorrow.
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Woof, As Tom pointed out in his wiki. link El Cajon is near San Diego, I also know of a SanTee in the San Diego area. Not to say there isn't two?
Dog SB/Tom
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Woof Crafty, Go ahead and make it 41 fighters. My fighters registration form will be in the mail box tonight! That just sent a shiver up my spine that I have not felt in a long time.
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Woof Tom, As they say in poker......ALL IN!!
Exciting eh? :mrgreen: Its good to be alive and living.......
Dog TG/SB
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Thanks to the both of you Toms! I was born in that area but my parents moved to Illinois so I was thinking about checking that area out if we had the time.
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Yeah, thats the feeling. It's a good thing.
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Good news that I'll at least get to do knife if no other women register (assuming Hig thinks I'm up to the job!).
Still holding out hope for another female to fight with sticks though...
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I know better than to say your not up to the job Lynn :wink:
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I have no doubt that Lynn is "up for the job". In a real knife fight,
where strength and power are not as relevent as speed and
ability, Lynn might be able to take on all comers. I don't know
the answer, each "solution" creates new problems, but to watch
people continue to kick their opponent when in a true knife fight they
wouldn't have a leg left, or they close and push and punch or actually
do a takedown after their arms, legs, neck etc. has been cut to ribbons
turns these fights into boxing/wrestling matches. Unfortunately,
Lynn, or anyone slightly built is at a disadvantage at a Gathering,
yet in reality, the slightly built person has an advantage using the knife.
Perhaps in stick "grappling happens" although I wonder without a helmet
how many takedowns there would, but a knife is fatal - you don't charge
and take cut after cut and keep kicking and continue to close. You're dead.
It is too bad good, subtle, deceptive and fast knife work cannot be rewarded.
Instead, the opponent after they are supposedly dead or disabled continues or initiates
physical harm through greater size or strength and is often is looked upon as the "winner".
That is not reality. Change the rules?
james
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This has been a perennial struggle in our knife fighting. Indeed this issue drove the push to aluminum blades and drives the push to the Shocknife.
I'm not really sure how to resolve it-- but I will note that Linda of the Bay Area clan (Baltic Dog's crew) had an outstanding knife fight against a man a few years back which is like to appear in our upcoming DBMA DVD "Die Less Often Volume 2" -- so it certainly can be done.
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The deal should be signed tomorrow or Wednesday to make everything firm and final, but at the moment we have a verbal agreement.
Assuming all goes as planned, the location is this:
Location: 2435 N. Naomi St. Burbank, CA 91504 (park on lot off Burton Ave)
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I have no doubt that Lynn is "up for the job". In a real knife fight,
where strength and power are not as relevent as speed and
ability, Lynn might be able to take on all comers. I don't know
the answer, each "solution" creates new problems, but to watch
people continue to kick their opponent when in a true knife fight they
wouldn't have a leg left, or they close and push and punch or actually
do a takedown after their arms, legs, neck etc. has been cut to ribbons
turns these fights into boxing/wrestling matches. Unfortunately,
Lynn, or anyone slightly built is at a disadvantage at a Gathering,
yet in reality, the slightly built person has an advantage using the knife.
Perhaps in stick "grappling happens" although I wonder without a helmet
how many takedowns there would, but a knife is fatal - you don't charge
and take cut after cut and keep kicking and continue to close. You're dead.
It is too bad good, subtle, deceptive and fast knife work cannot be rewarded.
Instead, the opponent after they are supposedly dead or disabled continues or initiates
physical harm through greater size or strength and is often is looked upon as the "winner".
That is not reality. Change the rules?
james
I agree with all of your points here JDN. We've all seen and most study actual knife encounter clips (or should). The fights that show repeated stabs are often done by an attacker that has no clue about hitting the "V" spot (Vital insertion/slash). I have gone back and forth with wooden knives, aluminum, hard/soft rubber training blades. I always end up comming back to chalking the blades with two different colors and calling the fight after a quick engagement. I like to assess the cuts and the one who has made the most vital or life threatening injury wins. Sometimes I will let the fight continue on if there are no serious stabs or slashes (taking into consideration length of blade, size of player, location of injury) Its good to have someone with a good sense of anatomy or medical training on hand that can do the assessment with a sense of what the real deal would have done.
I have seen some nasty wounds and some minor incidents that caused serious long term damage. (ie. I have seen cuts to the tendons on the back of hand from breaking a window with a rifle that ended up causing the loss of gripping function in the hand for a long time. I have seen men shot that just wanted to keep engaged in the fight. *situational)
If the fight continues after a non-life threatening injury, then I will add some restrictions that come into play. Ie EBL (estimated blood loss), level of shock, airway compromise /SCW, loss of function in a limb, etc.) These things need to be considered in keeping the play as real as possible. I have grown to like the training blades that tend to get caught up on clothing (stick or catch), this causes the players to learn to keep a firm grip of the blade so they dont drop it when it hangs up on a jacket or pant leg, etc.
Anyway - gotta go - on the move again.... 8-)
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This whole question of how to add a realistic sparring component to blade training has always interested me. being faced with a live blade is a WHOLE different ball game from ANY kind of training blade... though the shock knife is a neat idea.
Could we start a new thread on this topic? I would be very interested in comparing ideas about this.
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Maija:
Go for it!
CD
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Tom Stillman just mentioned in the DB in the media thread that he will be bringing a "swing blade", and C-Cyborg (no current internet access) has asked me to post that he has a whip which he would like to try. Post here if you are interested.
Any other off the beaten path items we will be seeing?
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Woof all, as Marc mentioned, This June during the warm up fights, I am going to introduce a swing knife which is a wood dowel (representing a knife) connected to a teather that wraps around the wrist and swings out like a nunchaku. It should be fun. Also: I have some concerns about the knife fighting warm up's. It seems to me that many of the fighters are doing alot of crashing and kicking during these "warm up fights" Although many people have different ideas of how a real knife fight scenario unfolds, my concern is that if I sustain an injury that keeps me from participating in a day of stick fighting, I will be really bummed. (very disapointed) I think that these gatherings have atracted many serious knife fighters with something to prove which is a great thing except for the fact that the knife fights here are used as a warm up exercise before a day of hardcore stick fighting. I am sure I can find someone to knife fight with who has the same concerns as myself. P.S. I am also looking for someone to fight me against my single/double nunchaku. Size and weight not a concern to me. I am 47 yr's old 6'5" 225 lbs. The nunchaku I use are rattan and very light weight so you can take a shot and not wory as much about serious injury. Anyone interested please post here. TS
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Hmmmmmmm Im contemplating the idea Tom (nunchaku vs stick )... this is going to be my first time at a gathering. Might as well make it as memorable as possible right? :-o
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That's the spirit!
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Woof, I thought that at last Junes gatheering some of the knife fights got a little out of control, as far as reality was concerned.
It is easier said than done, but may I suggest that before the knife fights start, it is expressed by Guro Crafty(maybe a little knife reality talk to put it in perspective), that we want to take a realsitic approach towards the knife fights, and that control is expressed in the fight, not so much to make it a knife spar, but to take into consideration the finality of what we are about to make play and the seriousness of the event in terms of a real life knife fight and the fighters take this into consideration as they approach their fight. Not onley that but have the presence of mind to acknowledge a good hit by their opponent.
Just my thought.......
Dog Tom
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"some of the knife fights got a little out of control"
Now that's an understatement!!! I would say that out of all the fights only a handful of times did we see a fighter not get "killed"-- usually several times.
Maybe its time to pull out my old trick of waving a live blade around the faces of the fighters during the Magic Words Talk. :evil: :-D
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Now that I can get to the internet for the evening. I'll just reiterate what guro crafty said earlier. I want to see if anyone would be intrested in fighting against a whip.
C-Cyborg
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What would the rules be? Would it be the same as when Top Dog fought the guy with the Bull Whip? As soon as the gap is closed the match is over? Do you go to the ground? Would you have a knife in the "back pocket?"
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For the record, the reason that TD and the whip man agreed to stop when the gap was closed was that the whip man simply was not competitive with TD.
OTOH my sense of C-Cyborg is that his competence is , , , quite sound. :evil:
Changing subjects, Dan Jackson is offering the possiblity of an 8 foot high wall 20 feet long on the north side of the fight area made out of studs and plywood. Comments?
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Woof C-Cyborg Dog, What type of whip and how long? Have you ever used it in a real or play fight? If so, what was the outcome? P.S. If I do it it will have to be toward the end of the day.(In case of fight stopping injuries) See you there Bro! TS
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The way I was thinking was that the fight would keep right on going. I won't rule out a knife in the pocket.
It would be a 6ft bull whip. I have fought once before whip vs whip with 4ft whips and it was a learning experiance thats for sure.
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Im interested in the idea but again since this is my first gathering I dont want to out do myself so to speak... ya know? Kinda like my "eyes are bigger than my stomach" kinda thing. What I have in mind is to come down "whoop and get whooped" learn from it and be a better fighter at each gathering.
Guro Crafty, Im all for the wall. :evil:
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Do the wall. If it was'nt for the back drop issues(for filming) I would say tag it with some graffitti just to give it that down home feel. LOL
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I'm the producer who did the Original Promo at a Gathering a few years back, and who will be producing a longer version at the June Gathering that will air on the National Geographic Channel. For a variety of logistical reasons, the June Gathering will be held at a new location, 2435 N. Naomi St. Burbank, CA 91504. The space, which measures roughly 110' by 65' is a warehouse typically used as a shop for working on cars. We're going to clear it out and lay down a 40' x 30' wrestling mat in the center. Which means you'll be fighting in space surrounded (potentially) on all sides by spectators.
Crafty has asked me to get your input on a few elements we have some control over. On either side of mat, along the 40' length, spaced at 20' intervals, are two 4x4 posts that hold up the ceiling. We're going to find some way to pad these posts. One option we have is to build a 6' wall between two of them. Which would mean on one side, you'd have a 20' wall to crash into. Is this desirable? The alternative is spectators all around.
Thoughts? Comments? Concerns?
Dan
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Hey Dan!
Regrettably, I will not be making this Gathering. :| I do however have some ideas that I think would lend well to the fights and the over all aesthetics of the environment. The idea of a wall is perfect but putting a large garage door in the middle of the wall would be killer! To help sell you on the idea, imagine it to be an awesome way to open a scene:
(garage door opens) - fighters inside ready to fight . . . .
(garage doog closes) - fights begin.
side-note: Every gathering I have been to this really adds to the concept. Kind of like shutting the octagon door at UFC. Once the door is closed, the fights begin and there is no turning back.
Not to mention how much of an effect it has when people go crashing into it! Sticks smacking it, etc. I think this has been some of the biggest crowed pleaser in previous gatherings that I have attended.
The second thought that I had was that the gathering for the Reality Show Promo had the view of over top which was really cool. Is there any way to give spectators the same type of angle? Maybe rafters or scaffolding?
Gruhn
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Interesting idea. Kind of borrowing from monster garage and also remanisent of the Raw Gym warehouse doors. Maybe one could utilize the existing warehouse doors to achieve the previous mentioned idea. Possibly a stageing tent of sorts just outside the door? That way you could create a dark non defined background when fighters enter through the doors instead of cars in parking lot etc. How about some colored lights in the stageing area to give it a mood. Sort of like the rapidly moveing colored lights during the stageing of the old U.F.C. fights 2+3. or strobe lights. What is O/P trying to achieve exactly. Are they looking to keep a modest real feel to this or maybe a more smoke and mirrors effect? (for lack of a better term) I think the previous idea is a winner! IMHO
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Gentlemen:
I think the idea here is to be ourselves.
The rolling loading dock door at RAW/R1 was there because that's what the place used to be.
Right now what interests me is getting our sense of the fight area, its boundaries, seating and things like that.
Dan, I may have located access to several folding wrestling/gymnastic pads of the type seen in the background of our "Snaggletooth Variations" promo clip on the front page here at www.dogbrothers.com at 1:07 and forward. I can picture laying this down just outside of the perimeter of the wrestling mat that will be used for the fight area itself (How goes the search for the one we will be using. Each one will only be a foot or two high. If the fight crashes onto them, most likely most of the fighters will fall onto them , , ,
TAC,
CD
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Woof Crafty, Sorry I got a little carried away there. It sounded like a good idea at the time! :evil: I guess you just have to be real and put it out there for better or for worse. What ever the case may be , I'm sure I speak for most if not all of the fighters when I say, We trust in your judgement all the way! TS
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Thank you for that Tom-- and my judgement is that things like this go best when the Tribe is consulted :-D
Changing subjects-- good news! Jeff Quail of Shocknife has promised us two of the new model of his Shocknife :mrgreen:
TAC!
CD
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Woof Danjack, I'am one of the fighters at the upcomming gathering that you will be producing. I have heard through the grapevine that there is going to be a no camera rule for this gathering.
Is this going to be no camera, no way, no how, period?
One thing we like to do and have done in the past is take pictuers of each other in the end....you know friends, comrades and fellow tribe memebers....that kind of stuff. Kinda like a big group hug :lol: :-D
It is my hope there will be some flexibilty to the no camera rule?
Can we talk about this?
Dog Tom
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I agree with Tom regarding pictures afterward the Gathering.
Great news on the two shock knives.
I like the idea of folding mats around the ritual space.
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I've brought up the subject of cameras with Dan, who has kicked it up the food chain to Thom Beers. It is a holiday weekend, so no surprise that we have not heard back from TB yet. With any luck we will get a ruling from him tomorrow.
Also, in case I didn't mention it, Dan says that they are working on providing some sort of temporary AC 8-)
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Thom has emailed me that regular cameras are OK!!! 8-) :-D 8-)
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Thom has emailed me that regular cameras are OK!!! 8-) :-D 8-)
Woof Crafty,
What's a regular camera? I'm planning to bring Indris down to provide the same photo coverage as in years before. That requires a "special" or irregular camera, as in a top of the line Nikon professional camera.
Please keep us updated,
Gints
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Woof Crafty, Just curious if you recieved my fighter registration form? Also: Good to see Dogzilla will be participating this gathering! TS
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Baltic Dog:
I will be discussing the matter of Idris with Thom Beers tomorrow.
Tom S.
That is a reality question. Check with VP of Reality Cindy at info@dogbrothers.com 310-540-6853
TAC!
CD
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Regarding cameras, still cameras (regular or not) are fine. No videotaping. Same as always.
Regarding the space, my question boils down to do you want a 20' wall to crash into or not? This area does not have walls on two sides, as did RAW. It's wide open. If the concensus is to add a wall, we'll build one.
Regarding the "look", the goal is to keep it honest and real. No smoke, no mirrors, no flashing lights (though I do have a disco ball I could hang). :-D
Dan
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I vote for a wall but I think Im in the minority.
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Crafty and Dan
As for walls ... it's always fun to drive someone into a wall and crush the breath out of them, but it would also cut down on standing/sitting room for viewing the fights.
My $.02 is don't build a wall.
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I vote "No Wall"
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I am a fan of walls, I guess I like the idea that walls exist in the "real" world. It's always fun to fight against the wall, or to drive someone into it, and of course it makes for better flying attacks :-D
C-Sheepdog
On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman : http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html
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Woof, I remmember on a tape hearing(origanl grandfathers speak?)Top Dog talk of the old days in the Philippines where they would line the fighting area with bolos pointing in towards the fighters....keeping them inside the fight area....could we do that? :-D
JUST KIDDING of course.
Though in the same spirit I vote NO WALL and let the spectators en-circle the mats......gets my motor running....
Dog Tom
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I just spoke with Top Dog and he confirms that he is coming :mrgreen:
I just spoke with Salty Dog and he says he thinks he can make it , , ,
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I new this one was going to be special! Q: Are they both fighting?
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No, just an appearance from the mists of time to witness the present. :lol: :-D 8-)
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Woof, The presence of the"council of elders" is like gas is to a fire. I agree with Tom this is going to be a special gathering.
I think the fighting is going to be especially "spirited"
Gettin all jacked up on bone crushing terror :evil:......... :cry: :-o :| :evil:
Dog Tom
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I vote for the walls. The walls of the R1 gym provided much needed variety to the fights in addition to enforcing a boundary. In their absence, the fight moderator (Crafty Dog?) will need to stop and start fights that are prematurely interrupted by excessive boundary violations.
Great news on Mr. Jacksons's allowance of cameras. As before, I think it would be a good idea to limit the number of cameras at the event. This reduces the number of stray flashes as well as the chance that people walk away with unauthorized video clips, as pretty much every compact camera has a video mode that can record many, many minutes of video on a single flash memory card.
Cool. Looking forward to this event. Crafty Dpg landed the documentary of a lifetime!
Gints
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Should we create another thread with a poll about walls so it is easier to track?
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Robert:
Dan is a pretty bright guy, I think he is up to keeping track of things :-)
All:
Gints makes a very good point about dual function cameras. This concerns us.
CD
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Crafty,
I think that you can pretty much apply dual use to most handheld electronics these days: pda's, mobile phones, cameras. 95% have the ability to record video of some kind. I've noticed a ton of cellphones being used at concerts these days to capture video footage.
Perhaps a "turn it off at the door" policy in regards to cellphones and pdas, with a gentle "no video" reminder to those with cameras?
Just my 2cents...
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Robert:
Dan is a pretty bright guy, I think he is up to keeping track of things
OK ... didnt mean to insult anyone's intelligence .. lol. I was just hoping to get more of the fighters to voice their opinion...
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Having only fought in the big open space of the Euro Gatherings, I was a little concerned that the smaller space of R1 would restrict my usual tactics of running a way :-P
As long as the ritual space is on the larger side, I like the idea of a wall 8-)
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I am all in for the wall. I like the idea of having at least one wall to work with. It provides a little more motivation to have proper enviromental awareness.
c-cyborg dog greg
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It would be nice to take pictures. Better yet, I remember years ago video's of the days fights were available to the fighters. It was nothing fancy(just a rough cut) I know it was difficult for Marc to make copies for the small #'s lnvolved plus time and cost to him. Still it was great to have a chronicle of such a special time in our lives that we all threw caution to the wind and ran with the pack of Dog Brothers!! TS
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Woof, It seems as though this gathering will be much more spectator friendly than at R1 gym.
I would still like to see the people be the wall and force footwork to get the take down and the crash
Though, I understand that the wall can be used as an enviormental issue.
Bottom line with or without the wall, the room to operate is still limited by boundries.
My question is with or without wall, where will the fighters stage for their fights? This too will take up space thus also limiting the view for the spectators.
My view is the wall takes up a spot where someone might sit and get a good view of the fights.
I still vote NO wall, but if we have a wall let it be on a narrow end of the mat and let it be onley one wall.
Dog Tom
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Old man question: Is their a bathroom? lol :lol:
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Old man question: Is their a bathroom? lol :lol:
hygenic Man question : Are there Showers :wink:
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Yes there are bathrooms :lol:
I've been meaning to ask DJ (Dan Jackson) about showers. In the absence thereof I'm thinking some hoses might do :-D
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've been meaning to ask DJ (Dan Jackson) about showers. In the absence thereof I'm thinking some hoses might do :-D
You mean like these?
(http://dogbrothers.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=710&g2_serialNumber=2)
picture © Dog Brothers Inc 2005
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
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After some thought, maybe it makes better sence to not allow any type of camera devices, and phones be turned off to show respect for OP and their interests. Tom
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Some answers:
We're setting bleachers at one end of the room that should hold 100. We're creating an area behind the bleachers as a fighter staging area. It has access to bathrooms. No showers. We're thinking of bringing in extra PortaPotties for spectators.
The wall will be about 6' high and 20' long along one of the longer (40') sides of the mat. Having it feels like it will give the fighters some options in how to work the space. The other two sides will be wide open for spectators.
Regarding cameras, it seems that what you've done at previous Gatherings should work at this one. For my purposes, I just need to prevent people from shooting long stretches of quality video and everybody in the audience taking pictures rather than watching and reacting to the fights.
Dan
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Danjack, Just wondering.....By having the wall on one of the longer edges of the mat and being onley half the length of that particular side.
What are the chances of a fighter being ran into what I will call the "knife edge" of the wall, or the end of the wall.
Sharp edges or corners are a concern as I feel some of the fighters will push, to run the guys into the wall in a event to corner the opponent, and may inadvertently do so when the angle may not be there.
Just a thought and a little bit of a concern.
Dog Tom
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For our purposes shooting any video at all is verboten. :x In addition to the obvious business reasons, there is also the very important matter of fighters knowing that they can come to play secure in the knowledge that they will not be unfairly portrayed.
For example several years back we had someone sneak a video of a fight and spread it all over the internet at "Our Style beats Style XYZ". This made for some very bad feelings on the part of Style XYZ (a knife oriented system) and for a while there was talk of settling things on the sidelines at the next Gathering. Fortunately I was able to steer things in a different direction.
Folks, what we have built is something very special. If we do it right, it looks easy. That does not mean it is easy.
I repeat, shooting any video at all is verboten.
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Great! Also, I hope there is enough circulation, not just A/C, to allow for adequate oxygen. The larger crowds will consume that quickly. With the limited circulation in the fencing masks, oxygen-starved fighters will offer less fight.
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Hopefully I'am not being seen as toooo big a pain in the arse, but I have a question concerning the stageing the fighters behind the bleachers.
What kind of view does that offer the fighters to the ongoing fights.
Not onley do I like to fight, but I also like to watch. Much can be gained and learned from watching.
If we have to move out of the staging area to watch the fights it may detract fighters from getting or taking fights as the fighting tribe may be dispersed among the crowd.
Dog Tom
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Woof All:
Maija left a phone message last night that she has mailed in her fighter's registration 8-)
The Adventure continues!
Crafty Dog
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SWEET :-D :mrgreen: :-D
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Awesome! Give it up for the ladies with guts! Much Much Respect. Tom
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Salty Dog is confirmed :mrgreen:
Concerning the fight surface: Subject to confirmation, it looks like our fight surface will be judo tatami mats.
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Salty Dog is confirmed :mrgreen:
Sweet! :-D
looks like our fight surface will be judo tatami mats.
Not wanting to be picky, but as an old school Judoka... tatami are the reed mats. But it is also the brand name of olympic style Judo mats, just hoping to avoid confussion :? (I've been bitten by this before :-) ).
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Not wanting to be picky, but as an old school Judoka... tatami are the reed mats. But it is also the brand name of olympic style Judo mats, just hoping to avoid confussion (I've been bitten by this before ).
I was wondering about that myself, I searched using the term "tatami mats" which came up with the picture of the reed mats as well as the foam "puzzle" mats.
It would be kinda cool to use the reed mats Im sure they wont be as forgiving as the foam though, lol.
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I'm assuming it'll be wrestling boots or mat shoes only ?
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I stand corrected on "tatami" :oops: :lol:
Good point on the shoes. Yes. Attention Fighters! Please wear wrestling or other mat type shoes!
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I was looking forward to wearing short pants and sandals. :? It worked out well last time I fought at a gathering! Not only did it keep with the theme of "REALITY" (wearing every day clothing) it also kept me more honest when it came to defending against knee and foot attacks. I don't think I have ever worn mat shoes before? I will buy some and try them out. Q: I assume wearing socks or going barefoot is OK? :| Tom
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F.Y.I. "Sports Chalet" sporting goods store, carries "ASICS" brand wrestling style mat shoes for about $49.00
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I'm all for the move towards unspecialized footwear. I've worn wrestling shoes for past Gatherings, but since I don't train with them, they are really quite foreign to me. An issue with the wrestling mat is the sticky surface, so any shearing action on your foot will tear off some skin. I was reminded by this a couple of weeks ago when I grappled barefoot on a mat. Two weeks later, the shredded skin is making healing progress. I would have done this Gathering barefoot were it not for that lesson, which has a great probability of reducing your fight count.
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I have experienced the same problem as you in the past! (foot abrasions) Socks take care of the problem although they can also be slippery!
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I was going to ask how easy wrestling boots are to get over there.
The can only be ordered online here & I don't want to risk them not arriving before I leave (my old ones are falling apart)
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Im not sure how far this is from the warehouse but there is a Sports Authority in Burbank.
1900 Empire Ave
#R12
Burbank , CA 91506
(818) 260-0504
Well actually after using Yahoo maps it appears it is around the corner.
Distance: 0.8 milesTime: 2 mins (approx.)
http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_result.php?q1=2435+N.+Naomi+St.+Burbank+CA+91504&q2=1900+Empire+Ave+Burbank+CA+91506+US&q3=&q4=&q5=
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thanks :-D
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Hey Graeme, "SPORTS CHALET" sporting goods store is 5 minutes from fight location in the city of Burbank. Check map. Locations: http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_result.php?q1=2435+n+naomi+st+burbank+ca&q2=Burbank%2C+CA+91502&q3=&q4=&q5=
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Just purchased "ASICS" brand wrestling shoe from Sports Chalet in West Hills. The Burbank store quoted a price of $49.95 West Hills price $39.95. Be sure to mention this if you purchase them from the Burbank (or other) store as I am sure they will match the price! Shoe is black with white souls and white stripe on sides. It has a high top with fold down Velcro tung to cover the laces. Big-5 sporting goods stores also carries them. Looks like a well made shoe, but cheep. 8-) Tom
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Thanks for the info Tom. Im going to hit the stores this weekend and check prices.
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Woof, I have that shoe. Its a baisic wrestling shoe. Nothin special. but a wrestling shoe is nothing special anyway,it will get the job done for you and the price seems right. Not likley you can find anything less expensive.
TG
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Woof Guro Crafty, Just curious as to what the theme will be for the knife fights this time. One on one, two on two ect.....
Dog Tom
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Anyone have an idea of the 3 closest hospitals.? Also there levels and reputations.
A google map would be very useful for all.
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Closest Hosiptals according to Google Earth
(Closest)
Empire Medical Center
2307 Empire Ave W
Burbank, CA 91504
(818) 841 3420
0.6 mi (about 2 mins)
Directions;
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=2435+N+Naomi+St,+Burbank,+CA+91504&daddr=34.19184,-118.335+(%22Empire+Medical+Center%22)&ie=UTF8&v=2.1&cv=4.1.7087.5048&hl=en&z=16&om=1
Providence Urgent Care Center
3413 Pacific Ave W
Burbank, CA 91505
(818) 953 4488
1.2 mi (about 4 mins)
Directions:
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=2435+N+Naomi+St,+Burbank,+CA+91504&daddr=34.18832,-118.348+(%22Providence+Urgent+Care+Center%22)&ie=UTF8&v=2.1&cv=4.1.7087.5048&hl=en&z=15&om=1
Southern California
10750 Washington Blvd
Burbank, CA 91504
(818) 565 0123
1.2 mi (about 4 mins)
Directions:
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=2435%20N%20Naomi%20St%2C%20Burbank%2C%20CA%2091504&daddr=34.20005%2C-118.329%20(%22Southern%20California%22)&ie=utf-8&v=2.1&cv=4.1.7087.5048&hl=en
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Thank you Robert.
Changing subjects entirely, I was talking with C-Cyborg the other day as we were training on the mat at RAW/R1 and he expressed regret that there would be no walls, or better yet, corners into which to back one's opponent. He remembered True Dog doing exactly that to him.
The fight area of this Gathering is, within a foot, identical to the space at RAW. The difference of course being the absence of walls (but there are some 4x4 posts the padding of which I am working out with Dan Jackson). The point I would like to make is this. When back your opponent up against the boundaries of the fight area, PLEASE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT (within the context of "Friends at the end of the day" of course!). We are still looking for wrestling mats to stack around the perimeter.
I am toying with the idea of preparing some volunteers to patrol the periphery with Muay Thai pads or something of the sort to protect fighters as well as possible from hard landings outside the fight area and to push them back onto it. What do y'all think?
TAC,
CD
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It would be reminiscent of a school yard fight! (except the pads and sticks) lol 8-)
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Pretty Kitty found this:
Providence Urgent Care Center
(818) 953-4488
3413 W Pacific Ave
Burbank, CA 91505
This might be more relevant for the dings, cuts, & bruises more likely to happen than a hospital.
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My $.02 on patrolling the periphery .... Why? The Magic Words work fine.
The fighters need to be aware during the fight so they don't hurt their opponent or a spectator (or themselves) by taking the fight off the matts.
Spectators are warned that - like the fighters - they are responsible for themselves. They can sit in the front row with a kid in their lap or they can wear full WEKAF body armor and stand in the back row - it is their choice.
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Woof Corey, Thats cause your just a mean SOB :-D......Just kidding. :lol: Though you are right. I kinda like the idea of the pad boys keeping the fight on the mat.....but either way I'am good with it.
I'am really glad there won't be a wall.
I think the spectators surrounding the mat will really juice the atmosphere...kinda like a pit, or as Tom said a school yard brawl.
Its gonna ROCK fer sure :mrgreen:
Dog Tom/SB
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Now that all the important questions have been asked.... :-D
Any suggestions on restaurants in the area?
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Here's the mats: https://ws04.ipowerweb.com/smartweb/swainsportsmats/cart/product_gold_mats.asp
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Sweet mats ! What color ? Grey would probably be the most useful for video/photo to reduce color casts from reflective light. Also, grey or black would give it that "underground" feel that the RAW gym exuded. I really liked the feel of the RAW gym.
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They look nice and spongy. :-D
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The mats look pretty good. Here are some comments by Prof. john Bono from the kajukenbo cafe forum on the differences between Swain and Zebra from :
:Zebra and Swain are very similar except the backing has better grip on the Zebra to the floor, rubberized and the top coat/outerskin on the Swain tends to be very abrasive on the skin. My Chiro office is about 1 mile from Swain went there many time trying and looking at mats, but there follow through with customer service leaved much to be desired. I compared the 2 side by side since the price was the same. Zebra has a warehouse here in the bay area now, one of my students just bought mats from them. The 1 inch mat was the best combo for hard stand up and ground work. the thicker grappling mat, was a back killer if you are into boxing or Thai. It just gave to much and presented foot supination, which leads to knee and ankle problems. I do have one thicker one for throwing drills we just drag out on the floor. You could always come try mine and some one with Swains. The main thing for me was the skin loss during heavy grappling, I like the smoother cover....:
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i sure am looking forward to this gathering. it will be my fifth, and every one so far has been exciting and educational. while i doubt that i will ever fight myself, it is extremely useful to see the stick fighting i've practiced three times a week for the past few years used in a realistic context. i have a few humble opinions on the points raised in this thread.
Cameras---i have found that flash cameras have been distracting at the gatherings and impart a carnival/paparazzi atmosphere. modern electronics certainly allow flash free photos and this should be considered.
Pad Boys---While this might increase safety a bit i think that it would detract from the ambiance. And in some ways they might increase the risk of injuries as well meaning security security guards do in concerts. Best to banish those 18 and under from the first 2 rows.
Realistic Fights---I like the idea of chalking the blades, and the electronic knives are even better. At one previous gathering i saw the most unrealistic situation in the stick fights rather than the knives. some fighters were taking a stick strike to their helmeted head in order to deliver a strike to an opponent's unprotected shin/foot. seemed unsporting.
The Wall---Pink Floyd would make excellent background music, IMHO.
Female Fighters---seem to lack opponents. so nobody is willing to channel Andy Kaufman?
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."---HST
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We have these mats at the gym back in boston. They are a pleasure to work on.
Greg
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With permission from the author "PC" I post here his "senryu" (like a haiku, but unlike a haiku not about natural things) about what we do.
==============================
Preparations, thoughts boiling
Chaotic event transpires, no memories
Play, grow, breathe!
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Cameras---i have found that flash cameras have been distracting at the gatherings and impart a carnival/paparazzi atmosphere. modern electronics certainly allow flash free photos and this should be considered.
Most of that is definitely due to my brother's photography to cover the Gathering. He is equipped with a top of the line Nikon professional camera (D2H) , and a rare fixed focal length lens that is the best available for lower light photography. In other words, if better photo equipment existed, I'd own it. Even with that gear, some flash is required even to get a barely acceptible 1/200 to 1/250 shutter speed at f/2.2 or f/2.5 . With a doubling in the camera's sensitivity, I'd go for f/2.8 or a higher shutter speed before reducing the flash level. The major problem is combining fast action with the low lighting of most indoor facilities. At the last two Gatherings, my brother and I replaced the RAW gym lights with new, high quality fluorescent bulbs that had a slightly higher light output.
Perhaps another take on the flash pollution is the number of cameras. Do we really need so many people taking pictures? Almost none of the pictures will be any good, and almost no one submits them to Cindy or Marc for contribution to the gallery. What do I consider to be a lousy Gathering photo? A blurry action shot with a greenish tinge. That is what every compact "Point&Shoot" and any DSLR with the "kit" lens will produce. Perhaps we could choose a handful of people to provide additional coverage.
Overall, I agree with the sentiment that flash photography changes the feel of the event. However, I think the photo gallery is one of the best ways to showcase the event.
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Since this gathering is going to be filmed by NG is there going to be extra lighting, thus excluding the need for flash?
If so, I suppose we are looking at some extra heat issues from the lighting.......Though if I'am not mistaken we are going to have AC......
I disagree on "choosing a handful of people" to take pics. Though all Ia'm intrested in si getting some pics with fellow tribe members before and after the gathering.......In other words.....I don't want to be told my wife can't take pics. :-D
I orginally raised this issue when the no cameras thing came up :roll:
Dog Tom/SB
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I think Tom is right. The studio lights should provide good to moderate lighting for snap shots. P.S. Note to lighting guy: Don't be thrifty, turn on a 750 !! :lol:
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I think Tom is right. The studio lights should provide good to moderate lighting for snap shots. P.S. Note to lighting guy: Don't be thrifty, turn on a 750 !! :lol:
The studio lights are adjusted to provide proper illumination at video shutter speeds, which are typically 1/60 or 1/30 second, depending on the camera. I shoot at 1/90 (480i and now 1080i) for my garage fights, but I have a ten light banks. My brother Indris needed the flash even for the previous Gathering covered by Original Productions. In still photography, anything below 1/200 second shutter speed yields blurry photos when the subjects are moving.
Come on, guys. I've been working on this action photography situation for a few years. The proof is in the Gallery starting with June 2004. Think about it another way: if it were possible to use less/zero flash or a compact camera, don't you think I'd do it?
My brother Indris is there to cover the event. If you want any kind of picture, just ask him, pose and run. A lot of pictures don't end up in the Gallery, but all you have to do is email me.
-Gints
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First off, The guy posting his complaints about flash has never fought in a gathering. As a previous fighter at raw, I have personally never been bothered by the flash.....lucky maybe, I don't know my attention seems to have been more directed on the stick buzzzing by my head :-P.
Sting is right any action pics we have tried to take there have for the most part come out blurry, and weve got a decent digital camera......certainly no top of the line Nikon.
Like I said, I just want to be able to get my camera in so I can get some shots of the guys after the gathering. I don't want to be excluded from this because my cameras not good enough :lol:.
I don't really care if they have a no photos during the fights rule.....though like I said the flashes never bothered my before.....then thats just me.
Maybe someone whom has been bothered by flash could list a complaint?
Dog Tom/SB
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No problem with personal cameras Dog Tom. What we don't want to see is dual use cameras.
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I think Tom is right. The studio lights should provide good to moderate lighting for snap shots. P.S. Note to lighting guy: Don't be thrifty, turn on a 750 !! :lol:
The studio lights are adjusted to provide proper illumination at video shutter speeds, which are typically 1/60 or 1/30 second, depending on the camera. I shoot at 1/90 (480i and now 1080i) for my garage fights, but I have a ten light banks. My brother Indris needed the flash even for the previous Gathering covered by Original Productions. In still photography, anything below 1/200 second shutter speed yields blurry photos when the subjects are moving.
Hey guys, I'm with you. I've been working on this action photography situation for a few years because I was sick of taking and seeing mushy indoor martial arts pictures. The proof is in the Gallery starting with June 2004. If it were possible to use less/zero flash or a compact camera and deliver great pictures, I'd do it.
My brother Indris is there to photograph the event. If you want any kind of picture, just ask him, pose and run. A lot of pictures don't end up in the Gallery, but all you have to do is email me for any and every "buddy shot". Marc has control over the fight pictures, so you'll have to ask him for those. It takes me days to sort through 1500 photos for the best 150-200 that represent the event, as well as color correction, cropping and other picture adjustments. We're there to photograph the event and let it live on through images.
As for limiting photographers, we really don't want to do that. The issue is that flashes pollute the video as well as the underground atmosphere. Imagine watching an hour-long DVD movie with several thousand flashes, although at sporting events. That is one reason why many prodcations limit the use of a flash. The main reason to limit the number of photographers is to reduce that flood of flashes on the video. If a lot of great photos were taken, then it would be worth it. So far, next to zero have been submitted to the DB Gallery. Make sense ?
-Gints
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I underline Baltic Dog's point about how few people bother to share their fotos with us. I also underline his point that most of the pictures are of really low quality.
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Sounds like a very serious issue. I think photos with your friends is a must but I think one would also take great care to make sure O/P gets good clean footage for N/G show. It's not like they get a second take. At least this time around, I feel still photo quality should take a back seat to video quality. JMHO
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Gints/Baltic dog, I can fully appreciate what your saying and also echo the sentitment of allowing OP/NG the ability to get good quality video. As I stated earlier I have no problem with a no photos of the fights rule.
I do however think its a major undertaking to try to provide for everyones personal photos. How would you sort them, deleiver them and cover all the costs ect ect.
Certainly you won't follow me around and be my personal photographer :-P let alone everyone else.
Like I said, all I'am really intrested in is the "family photo" type shots of fighters and elders ect. It will also be a great and possibly rare oppertunity to get all the elders together in one shot.
I'am thnakful that Guro Crafty is allowing personal cameras for this reason.
Dog Tom
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Certainly you won't follow me around and be my personal photographer :-P let alone everyone else.
Like I said, all I'am really intrested in is the "family photo" type shots of fighters and elders ect. It will also be a great and possibly rare oppertunity to get all the elders together in one shot.
I'am thnakful that Guro Crafty is allowing personal cameras for this reason.
Tom, you've summarized why it's important to have al of those cameras. People take many great shots, and those should be allowed. So, I'm not in any way trying to squelch the fun of ambience photos.
I'm just a broken record on the issue of the fight photos. If there is a need to reduce the number of flashes during the fights, I think that it's reasonable to limit the number of fight photographers. In any case, a flash covers a single video frame. For the fight footage actually included in the show, it is possible to replace those single "flashed" frames by repeating the previous frame.
See you at the Gathering. Rog and Milt would have liked to fight you.
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Baltic Dog, Like wise, look forward to seeing you as well!! Milt said earlier that he probably wouldn't make it, does what your saying mean Rog won't make it either?
I will miss seeing them both, If be the case.
In a some what different vein concerning the photos.......I know that Guro Crafty has rights to all the fight photos ect. However I
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Baltic Dog, Like wise, look forward to seeing you as well!! Milt said earlier that he probably wouldn't make it, does what your saying mean Rog won't make it either?
I will miss seeing them both, If be the case.
In a some what different vein concerning the photos.......I know that Guro Crafty has rights to all the fight photos ect.
However I don't really have any good personal fight pics of myself, for the very reasons of camera, flash ect. that we have been talking about, and would be intrested in doing whatever it may take to get some......provided they are NOT of me getting my head cracked :|
You guys do a really good job as is eveidence in the gathering galleries, is there anyway to get personal fight pics?
Tom
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Hey Tom,
Talk to Crafty about this. On my end, I've only processed those that appear in the Gallery, so you wouldn't be getting photos that are as crisp and clean as those.
Honestly, the shots that are in the Gallery are the cherry picked shots of the Gathering. Indris takes about 1500 photos. About a third are very similar, as he's using a camera that does 8 frames/second, so we just pick the best. Another third are out of focus, "ass shots"/back shots or just plain ol' uninteresting. Then, the real sorting work is to reduce 500-600 decent shots to a better set of a manageable 150-200 shots that cover each fight. This takes days and lots of patience. Some fights are just more interesting than others, so you'll see the occasional string of good photos from those. Some great action is lost when the video/photographer cross over, or while the photographer moves to another position for a better view. Since the photographer tries not to obscure the audience, a lot of action that looks good to the audience will be missed.
I do have some biases during the sorting, such as *against* rubber or plastic knives (especially black) , *for* good stick fighting action, *for* unmasked fighting and *for* moves that others do not do. Such choices are necessary for a good gallery.
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On a differing note, how about doing the electric knives with subdued light?
not sure if this is ok with vid production and photos, but it sure would be fun.
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Not sure about anyone else but I have never noticed the flash in any of my fights, nor have I noticed the audience for that matter :)
What have noticed and appreciated is the few hardworking people who take high quality pics and submit them to Marc and Cindy.
C-Sheepdog
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This is hard for me to write... But it must be done. Some good and some bad news.
Good: I checked into my new comand here in Lemoore, CA. and will be assigned to the Physical Therapy section to work and learn more about PT.
BAD: Due to being the new kid on the block and also due to my current finances, I regret to have to withdraw myself from the list of fighters.
I will be there in spirit and wish you all the very best. I have tried to think of ways to get there and make it happen, just running out of time and ideas.
Im not going to put my neck out there again and get my hopes up, but I will make it happen one day. November ???
The move just took too much $$ out of us and I am in no position to push my luck at work right now. Im getting reimbersed for some of the move expense but its gonna be a day late and a dollar short.
Best of Luck to everyone...
"Survive the Day" a KajuPit moto :x
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Dean:
Big Bummer :cry: The Adventure continues!
All:
Now that we have three Shocknives, I'm looking at all knife fights using them. Thoughts?
Crafty Dog
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Dean -
Sorry to hear it man, was looking forward to meeting you
Guro C -
I'm all for it :-D.........
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Now that we have three Shocknives, I'm looking at all knife fights using them. Thoughts?
I really like the idea of the Shocknives. Although I'm game for trying them, are they that much better than shiny aluminum knives? I'm all for eliminating the use of the rubber, wood and plastic knives, and I echo the sentiment that the knife fights are kinda of a warm-up fight in which no fighter should be injured such that he can't do other bouts. Does the tip/point of the Shocknife deliver a decent shock? From this photo, the shock knife looks like a plastic knife :
http://dogbrothers.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=288
While I've seen some panicked writhing from the shocks, overall, they look like plastic knife fights. Somehow, that just doesn't look deadly. I'd prefer a mix of polished aluminum and Shocknives.
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Shocknives?? Sweeet, Im interested.
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I thought the idea of the shocknives was to make the knife fights more 'realistic'? Having not experienced them, i don't know if they work, but if they work better than the aluminum blades then i'm all for them. What they look like is secondary isn't it? I'm all for an added incentive to respect the blade for it's edge aswell as it's tip....and honestly just because the polished aluminum is shiny, it's still klunky, and still looks like a blunt instrument to me.
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I'm thinking when people see and here the electricity crackling :-o that behavior will get more realistic :evil:
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Shock knifes are good as long as they stop the bulldozery of some of the fighters that like to clinch. Was looking forward to trying "swing knife" (maybe another time?) It has been my experience that some people naturally go to a kicking defence/disarm when faced with a shock knife. The knowledge that a rubber shoe will spare them the discomfort of shock changes there game. Ye be warned! :-o
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Crafty
What instilled respect for the shockknife (from the beginning) was when you walked around and zapped us with the shockknife. Something happens deep in your brain and you treat the shockknife like a knife.
I like the idea of using the shockknife for all knife fights (remember to bring a lot of batteries).
************************************
On a side note, I understand the photogenics of shiny aluminum training blades, but I disagree with eliminating the use of the rubber, wood and plastic knives. I fact, I encourage the use of the Sharky plastic sparring knives.
I know people spend good money on replica aluminum training blades. They are very pretty, but IMHO they are training blades not sparring knives. Those replica aluminum blades are great for training disarms and working other knife technics, but they are pretty damn pointy to be used in full speed sparring (the same can be said for many wooden knives).
If people want to agree to spar with nice photogenic (and pointy) aluminum training blades, ... enjoy. As for me, (if the shockknives are not available for some reason) I'm knife fighting with a Sharky and bringing an extra for my opponent.
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Mrs Hig & I leave for the airport in about 9-10 hours. I'm going to try for a bit of a Kip, but I've got that Xmas-eve feeling
See everyone soon :-D
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I'll bring a pair of my plastic blades also. Sonny designed them so they look quite 'mean'! Silver coloured blade and brown handle. They don't solve the 'respect for blade' issue, but they won't draw blood or break your hand either.
...and for the kick/disarm guys...... i guess i'll just have to aim for the ankle bone or the achilles tendon instead :evil:!
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A few opinions on aluminum blades.
As Corey points out, most metal training blades are pointy, so the choice of the model is important. For longer blades, I've found that a point is less of an issue than for shorter blades, mostly due to increased difficulty of keeping a longer blade stable on a thrust. The real "killers" have turned out to be some extra pointy Spyderco replicas. Ouch ! Just put one in the hands of a first timer, and you'll have a chance of feeling a full force #3 thrust. Consequently, on request, Bob Burgee made me some great mirror-polished short blades with a near semicircle in place of a point. In generla, aluminum blades are completely unsuitable for sparring unless you have a full face mask, such as a fencing mask. The grill spacing of the WEKAF helmet won't stop an Edges2 Fighter or other long/thin blades from reaching the face, and particularly, the eye.
The appearance of the sparring blade, I believe, is an important component of the experience. We don't pick up a hair brush for blade practice, so realistic construction is obviously important. There is something scary about the flash of metal, and that fear is important to the sparring experience. I think that fear of metal is also expressed by choosing plastic. Sharkees are great for regular practice as they are simply safer and cleaner than aluminum. Nonetheless, I think the aluminum models (I like the Edges2 Fighter) help with edge awareness, and the narrow/flat construction offers better feedback that will help avoid the "blade smacking". I've seen a lot of blade sparring , and it's common to see someone holding the aluminum training blade backwards, with the unground edge used to make cuts. If a reflective plastic process existed that could compete with the cost of a grey plastic, more practice blades would be made this way. Granted, there are some training blades that are made to appear as if they are not real.
The Gathering is a showcase for weapons fighting, and thus we also have a responsibility to properly communicate the expernience over photos and video. The uninitiated can easily recognize the power of the stick. The rubber or plastic knives don't do a good job of communicating the experience over video. "When I saw that black piece of rubber coming at me, I peed in my pants." If the audience is unable to recognize or even see the knife, then it will be difficult to communicate our real contact fighting. Aluminum blades look real on video, and both the fighter and viewer experiences are a bit more genuine.
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I'm thinking when people see and here the electricity crackling :-o that behavior will get more realistic :evil:
Yes, those blades make a great sound. I think they're pretty good and only wish they were a color other than black so it would be easier to see them. The black plastic gets lost amongst the black mats and generally black attire.
What do you think about exposing more skin for shocking purposes , such as ditching the shirts ? I'm not talking about fighting in Speedos.
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Not that I am trying to second guess anyone since this will be my first time but do you think the lighting had anything to do with the visual perception of the shocknife? I was watching this clip http://www.setcan.com/video/dogbrothers_lg.wmv and as they got in the corner it appeared it was kind of dark but since there will be a lighting and camera crew perhaps it will be a little different.
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If that doesn't warm you up for a day of stick fighting, nothing will! :-D
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I don't see why metalic tape (the kind used for ac work...I think) couldn't be used on the non-conductive sides of the knife. This now temporarily altered blade would offer a little more realism and allow everyone else to follow the flow of the blades. After your done peal off the tape and use a plastic-safe gunk remover to remove any tape residue.
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I don't see why metalic tape (the kind used for ac work...I think) couldn't be used on the non-conductive sides of the knife. This now temporarily altered blade would offer a little more realism and allow everyone else to follow the flow of the blades. After your done peal off the tape and use a plastic-safe gunk remover to remove any tape residue.
You'd be taking the knife outside of it's designed function. You run the risk of either shorting the knife out, or reducing the voltage density and reducing the level of shock the fighters received. Also, the adhesive of the tape may interfere with the conductivity into the tape.
Sorry, I'm an Engineer :wink:
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Has Jeff Qual approved the use of Shockknife on Shocknife? Will it short the knife out in any way?
Gints,
I feel the shocknives rather well through a shirt. So much so that I couldn't tell the difference. I think no gloves should be mandatory. I didn't wear any when I did Shocknife vs. EH or cattle prod vs. cattle prod and I strongly advise not using them (Tom, I can still remember where you hit me with the cattle prod on the left hand!).
Gruhn
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Jeff sent us an additional pair of S-knives for the explicit purpose of our using them at this Gathering.
Also, I'd like to remind people to think in terms of 2x2 knife fights, stick vs. knife, etc. Who will be fighting double stick? Haven't seen any mention of staff fights , , ,
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Crafty,
I guess what I was wondering is if it will hurt the knives (short them out) at all if they were to shock each-other (knife shocking knife).
Gruhn
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I may have a bull whip fight set up toward the end of the day so I will probably pass on staff fight this go round. BTW, Dog Hig and I are planning a double nunchaku vs double sticks! Also thinking: Swing knife vs stick? 8-)
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I know C-Cyborg has a whip too , , , :evil:
I like swing knife vs. stick 8-)
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I don't see why metalic tape (the kind used for ac work...I think) couldn't be used on the non-conductive sides of the knife. This now temporarily altered blade would offer a little more realism and allow everyone else to follow the flow of the blades. After your done peal off the tape and use a plastic-safe gunk remover to remove any tape residue.
You'd be taking the knife outside of it's designed function. You run the risk of either shorting the knife out, or reducing the voltage density and reducing the level of shock the fighters received. Also, the adhesive of the tape may interfere with the conductivity into the tape.
Sorry, I'm an Engineer :wink:
Damn engineers :-) Does anyone know a good substitute for wrestling shoes? I'm not accustomed to working on mats (so not sure what constitutes "mat safe") and currently am having a hell of a time finding wrestling shoes.
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I know C-Cyborg has a whip too , , , :evil:
I am pondering the idea of going stick + nunchaku against C-Cyborg (bull whip) I think I have a plan. :roll:
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Concerning shoes:
Wrestling shoes will be best, but "martial arts shoes" and mat friendly sneakers will be OK. Please use your best judgement.
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I feel the shocknives rather well through a shirt. So much so that I couldn't tell the difference. I think no gloves should be mandatory. I didn't wear any when I did Shocknife vs. EH or cattle prod vs. cattle prod and I strongly advise not using them (Tom, I can still remember where you hit me with the cattle prod on the left hand!).
Gruhn
Ryan, that's good to know about the conductivity through the clothing. Your no gloves rule is a good idea, and I liked that you did that. but as we all know, those fencing masks are not knuckle friendly. Tape around some knuckles is a fine yet incomplete remedy. it would suck that someone's fights were cut short by a bad finger cut. One of my recent gatherings (June 2006) was cut short from a gash on the fingers from a tooth . I decided to do that stick fight without any gloves, but that is not a great idea for the first fight.
Gints
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Crafty,
I guess what I was wondering is if it will hurt the knives (short them out) at all if they were to shock each-other (knife shocking knife).
Gruhn
I was wondering about that as well. And what happens when they touch the fencing mask? The Shocknife website seems to recommend goggles. Wouldn't want to fry an eye.
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I've asked Jeff Quail to come answer your questions.
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Looks like True Dog will be fighting! 8-)
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[td][/td]The new space for the Gathering is rapidly coming together and it looks great. An few updates...
Remember that parking on Sunday is in a large lot we're renting off Burton St., which is a side street off Naomi (which itself is a side street of San Fernando). Enter the building through the back alley gate. There will be lots of signs. You can also park on the street, but that maybe limited.
After much consultation with Marc and local bros, we did put up a wall. But 260 degrees of the arena is wide open for spectators. So fighters will be free to make use of the wall or avoid it. There will be much more interfacing with the crowd that you're used to at RAW.
We've also put up lots of scaffolding and even an old truck for people to sit on, so there are many more places to watch from than there was a RAW. There's also lots of ringside concrete floor, so you might want to bring something to sit on.
We've moved one set of bleachers to the other side of the mat to allow more space for the fighters to watch. We're bringing in a big AC system, with both supply and return ducts, so there should be more than enough cool fresh air.
Be aware the there will be lots of cameras (12 at last count), but we're making every effort to not obstruct views and not stop the action. But patience is always appreciated.
Looking forward to Sunday and the biggest Gathering ever.
Dan
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\m/ :evil: \m/
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From the fighters list, it looks like Dogzilla will no longer be coming to the Gathering ... ??? I was hoping to get run over by him.
Good to hear about True Dog.
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Woof:
Dog Corey: Dogzilla emailed his regrets about a week ago. Some family matters arose, etc. and will see us in September. I would have loved for him to be at this one in particular. He sounded to be in outstanding shape too!
All:
Here is an email from Shocknife's president Jeff Quail in its entirety:
TAC,
CD
=========================
Hi Marc,
I haven't been able to sign on to the message board yet so I will send you
my replies for you to post on my behalf:
The answer to the first questions:
1) The suggestion of wearing no clothing to increase the shock sensation.
The opposite is actually true. If your participants wear long sleeve shirts
they will receive a greater shock sensation. The fabric should be thin and
dry for best results. The reason is that the clothing will create a gap
between the electrodes and the skin which will allow the capacitor to fill
up to a higher level before it discharges. The clothing will also ensure
that heavy sweat does not create a temporary short on the blade. The
clothing should not be to thick (like a jacket).
2) The Shocknives will not be damaged be incidental contact with the blades.
Extended contact can cause overheating of the internal electronics but
nothing during a knife on knife scenario should create a problem. The
voltage can not be increased by introducing more of the same voltage from an
alternative source. In otherwords if the electrodes touch they will not
double the voltage returning into the receiving electrode. For what you guys
are using it for there should be no problem.
3) In regards to the question about the fencing mask. Electricity will
always travel in the path of least resistance. If the material of the
fencing mask can conduct electricity the charge will flow through the
shortest path from electrode to electrode. If the mask was pushed up against
the face or eye at that point, the electricity could possible flow into the
body. IF ANY ELECTRICITY GETS IN THE EYE IT CAN CAUSE SEVERE DAMAGE. This is
why we ask that a fully enclosed impact resistant plastic googles are worn.
If the person is wearing a mask instead of googles, the mask should be
tested to ensure that the mesh can not be pushed up against the eye or face.
If it can, it should not be used.
Hope this helps Marc! If there are any more questions please let me know. I
appologize about not having the new knife for you but will get you one when
they are available. The blade will completely eliminate shorting from sweat.
Wish everyone luck!
Jeff
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Very excited to hear about true dog. This is going to be an amazing weekend.
Greg
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Woof:
Attention members of the DB tribe and/or of DBMA Ass'n: We will be having a dinner tonight at an Indian restuarant in Hermosa Beach at 2000. Please email me at Craftydog@dogbrothers.com if you would like to come.
TAC,
Crafty Dog
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I can't make this one myself, but I'm sure it will be a precious time. Good luck to all the fighters, and I can't wait to hear all about it!
Rog
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Woof All:
Pretty Kitty tells me we haave 61 fighters!!! Doors will open at 1000. If you have been meaning to buy some of our products, this will be a good opportunity to do so without having to pay shipping and handling. Please bring cash!
I saw the layout today. Things seem to be coming together very nicely. More on this tomorrow.
Realize that with 61 fighters that the day will be longer than usual. In addition to conventional bleachers, some of the seating will be on scaffolding and there will be some choice positions available on the hood and roof of a rusty Plymouth Roadrunner (1965?)-- (this warehouse was the set of the TV show "Monster Garage" and many of the freaky vehicles built for the show were moved from the warehouse for our Gathering and for the moment sit in the parking lot.) and on top of a very large pickup truck bed, roof, and hood. Some of the seating will be on the floor. We really have no idea of how many people will be coming, but guesstimate that we will be able to handle 400 people without trouble (RAW was packed to the rafters) with 200.
TAC,
CD
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At home kicking myself for not being in attendance with everyone today. "Live Free - Die Well" - Im there in spirit... :cry:
Have a wonderful day!
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woof,
congrats everyone! win lose or draw, u stepped up and that what this is all about! i cant wait 2 hear the reports!!!!!
i can imagine this was an especially charged gathering!!
tpotts
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Cheeee Hooooo that was some good fun!
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Many heartfelt thanks to the Council of Elders and Pretty Kitty for putting on such a wonderful event.
Big hugs and thanks to Tricky Dog and the Canadian crew for the great fights (and the sweet shirt).
And a huge smile, pat on the back, and chest pound to all the fighters for making this a truly memorable Gathering. Great fights, amazing vibes, and good times all around.
I feel fortunate to have experienced a day that I'm sure will be talked about for years!
Thanks again,
Miguel
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Woof, The post gathering BUZZ continues.
Echoing SB Mig In thanks to PK Guro Crafty,and the Elders...also OP/NG FOR puttting up a nice setting and filming us for the show.
It was great to see friends again and the new ones made. The sense of family one gets from the gathering can not be explained but onley experienced it truley is "tribe".
I fulley encourage anyone who is or has considered doing this to come and experience it for yourself....its the onely way to get a full understanding of what we do and why.
My wife/ boss was impressed with the quality of fighters and fights......Her comments were "I don't know where all these fighters came from, but there were some good fighters there today"
Shes a filipino and a tough critic so if you fought take pride.
Looking forward to the next one and the continual growth that comes from each one.
Guro Crafty, this is a special thing and thank you for your vision, and what it does for those of us who desire to "walk as a warrior for all your days"
Much thanks!
Dog Tom/SB
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Many woofs and tail wags to all who made the Gathering great. It was a high point for me in the 2 years since cervical fusion surgery. Everyone I fought, came at me HARD, and made it a break-through day for me. Thanks.
My thoughts on the day have not completely coalesced but in the spirit of "find (and keep) what is useful," one point that comes to mind is -
The fighter's staging area was great :-D :-D :-D
There was room to stand around after your fight and talk with your opponent. IMHO - It aided the "In Gathering Evolution." Looking back, I definitely made mental adjustments with each fight. The ability to debrief and decompress after each fight helped me during the Gathering.
The larger staging area also made it easy to identify who was in the queue (had an opponent and waiting to fight) and who might be looking for a fight. In the past, it has been a little frustrating to find someone to fight while standing shoulder-to-shoulder in a crowd of fighters and spectators.
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This was my first gathering, and I have to say that nothing could have prepared me for how awesome the experience was. The atmosphere of the fight area only added to the energy. Elevated over the fight area was subdued lighting for the cameras, which made the fight area stand out even more than I would imagine it would. I was lucky to get offered a chance to team up Tim for a 2 vs. 2 knife fight (against Rich and Moe). All of the techniques I thought I had down seemed to turn in thin air. I found in hindsight that I made a lot of mistakes that I never make (i.e. dropping my knife then trying to pick it up....Rich and Moe pounced on me immediately). I know that I'll get better at it and look forward to the journey that will only bring improvement. I then got to fight Pappy Dog for my first ever "real contact" stick fight. This fight I'm sure I'll remember forever. Thanks goes out Pappy Dog for schooling me. Then I got to fight Dan. He got me with a buzzsaw and then showed how to do it, which I thought was pretty cool of him. I ended up sitting out the rest of the gathering as a result of the buzzsaw, but as a bonus I got to see a lot of great fights. One of the coolest fights was a 6' bullwhip against single stick. Crafty, Cindy, Salty, TopDog, OP and numerous other people did a great job on the gathering and the fight area as well. I got to meet a lot of great people and be part of something special. The coolest thing of the whole gathering was that I learned a ton about myself as a fighter and walked away with a humbleness that will only motivate me to get better. Unfortunately I had to head out right after the gathering so I missed the post gathering meal, but there is always November.
Kase
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Still basking in the glow of sundays gathering. All the fighters truly shined and great friendships were made. Years from now when I think of good times from the past, this will no doubt be right at the top of my list! Dog Brothers rocked the house !!! :-D
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Dan Jackson made an interesting comment/question/observation to the effect that our normal experience with violence and aggression causes separation in our relationships, but the violence and aggression of a Gathering seems to strengthen relationships. I don't know if that is the theme OP is going for, but it is a good insight.
The filming/interviews in the staging area during the Gathering seemed to capture some good examples of the warrior fellowship that so many of us share as a result of whacking each other with sticks.
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Woof Dog Cory (AKA Dog Pound)!
That is an interesting phenomena you bring up. More than a few of the tribe are now very close friends with my wife and I. As a matter of fact, I had three Dog Brothers, three Candidate Dog Brothers and one Candidate Cat at my wedding reception which was held last November after my wedding in Costa Rica. Each Gathering strengthens our ties and adds more friends and comrades to our circle of friends. Great Gathering all and looking forward to many more to come!
Tim
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OOOO!!!!
Let's here it, any promotions to Dog, C-Dog or Full Dog Brother? Come on, . . . . don't be modest!
Gruhn
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8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
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Red_Elvis, ryangruhn, loyalonehk, and all others
I still have to fight a little no longer as C-Dog Pound - which is fine. I had a GREAT day, but I haven't earned Dog Pound yet.
However a bunch of folks did get well earned promotions ... Crafty, is there a list somewhere?
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Woof All:
Actually, with all members of the Council of Elders in attendance, quite a few warriors were ascended. A very incomplete list off the top of my head follows-- if you belong on it but aren't please let me know.
TAC,
CD
Guiding Force
====================='
Ascending to the grand exalted status of Dog Brother:
Franfurter
Poi Dog
Sheepdog
Cyborg Dog
New Candidate Dog Brothers:
Greame "C-Scotty Dog" Higgins
Tim "C-Iforgethischosenname" Ferguson
Oli "C-Ghost Dog" _______
Again, if your name does not appear on the list but should, please email me at Craftydog@dogbrothers.com
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woo! congratulations to the new DBs!
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Woof all,
Tim's name was "C-Scurvy Dog"!!! :-D (Must be said in true pirate voice)
Aloha,
Poidog
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Congratulations to all !
Could we forget Kitty Linda Matsumi ?
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Ah yes, Tim "C-Scurvy Dog" Ferguson it is!
A hearty woof for Kitty Linda!
Also,
Mamerto "C-Bull Dog" Estepa
Renato "C-Cerebus" Judalena
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Congratulations to all !
Could we forget Kitty Linda Matsumi ?
She would be hard to forget! (great personality) Kitty Linda Matsumi showed great fighting spirit as did all the fighters. I regret not getting to speak with many of the fighters , especially all the female fighters because I find them to be so intriguing.(not in a weird way) :-) Thank you, Dog Tom (as of 6/24/07)
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Congrats to all who were promoted / received Candidate, Dog, Kitty, Dog Brother status!! Im looking forward to the next event. A hui hou! (Til we meet again!)
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I got promoted to Dog. 8-)
Dog Meynard
Soon to be C-Straw Dog and later just (ehem!) Straw Dog. How does it work anyway? :-o
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Congrats Dog Meynard.
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Congrats Meynard, I believe you are correct about the levels of advancement. I also believe it won't be long before you reach full Dog Brother status. Great fight BTW. (double nunchaku vs double sticks) I haven't had that much fun in years. Great ground work also on your part.. Sorry about the headbutt with mask on (bad form) I'm a little rusty and in the scuffle I hadn't noticed your mask had fallen off and I wasn't able to pull it all the way back in time.. Still you were able to finish the job Grrrr. It was great meeting you and your wife and I look forward to seeing you at future gatherings. Dog Tom
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I learned a lot in that fight. Thanks Tom. I look forward to the next gathering.
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Dog Meynard and Dog Tom Stillman confirmed :-D
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Ascending to the grand exalted status of Dog Brother:
New Candidate Dog Brothers:
Oli "C-Ghost Dog" _______
I believe it's Oli "C-Ghost Dog" Schaer.
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Woof all,
Tim's name was "C-Scurvy Dog"!!! :-D (Must be said in true pirate voice)
Aloha,
Poidog
Even better it be wit' thy left hand placed over thy left eye when speakin' thy name! Unless of course, ye be havin' a hook fer a hand. :wink:
Arrrrr,
C-Scurvy Dog
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Does anyone have any contact info for Tony Caruso?
Thanks in advance.
Kase
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Truly a great experience for all invovled.
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Well done to all who fought and congrats to those promoted.
Nice one Graeme on C-Dog
Regards
Matt
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That's Dog Tony Caruso :-D
Also, congrats to Bryon "C-Guide Dog" Stoops!
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This was my first gathering, and thanks to all for making it a great experience. I'm sad i could only find 2 people to fight me with blades, but on the other hand this gave me a great opportunity to watch and learn 8-). I saw some cool stuff and had a blast connecting with all you guys on the forum...nice to meet you too Dog Tom :-D.
Wish there had been more time to chat, the day went by so fast, and congrats to all those promoted!
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Fred "C-____ Dog" Hernandez. ( BTW Fred is well into his 50s 8-) )
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Sun Dog?
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Somebody jokingly said "Farm Dog" but SB Mig is correct. Fred went with "C-Sun Dog"
This was my first gathering, and thanks to all for making it a great experience. Wish there had been more time to chat, the day went by so fast, and congrats to all those promoted!
Maija - Thanks for letting me share your vantage point on the truck roof. Next time though, try not to knock over the scaffolding making such a loud ruckus! :lol:
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congrats everyone!!!
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Aaarg C-Scurvy Dog, the chaos gods are indeed my friends!
Thanks to you also for pointing out who was fighting, it was sometimes hard to tell who was who, so it added alot to the experience to have you there 8-)
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I had quite a break in my full participation in Gatherings. During my first fight at this Gathering, I had trouble with my mental focus. My opponent (Randy) wrapped up my stick arm like a python and all I could think of was getting my right arm free. Towards the end of the fight, my focus widened and I remembered I had a left hand and started punching. With each fight, my mental focus got better and I started relaxing.
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Wuff,
Just landed back in Scotland. Skys are grey, but there's no rain ;-D
I echo all the comments about the Day. My time in LA was more than I could have hoped for, I just wish I'd had longer. My only regrets were not taking Guro C's advice & asking True to fight (we spoke after the gathering & I'm looking forward to the next time I'm over), not being able to fight against the chucks like I'd hoped (I hate wrist shots :cry: ) and not being able to make it to Nick's BBQ earlier on the Monday.
Congrats to all the fighters & veryone who worked to make the day what it was.
C-Scotty Dog :-D :mrgreen: :-D
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WOOF! C- Scotty Dog, Glad to see you Dog's made it home safe. I heard about the troubles at the airport in Glasgow and was relieved to see your post saying you made it home OK. It's a crazy world we live in today ! I'm sorry we didn't get a chance to fight each other. :-( I know you were looking forward to it as was I, still it was good to meet you guys and share a beer after the fights. You dogs brought a good fight and a special flavor to this gathering and represented the Scotland Dog's with flying colors! I hope you make it out here in the near future for another gathering. 8-) Sticks Ahoy Mate!!! Dog Tom
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Peace and blessing upon all the fighters!
I'll hopefully be able to make it and witness a gathering one day.
:mrgreen: