4) Cuando mencion? que los factores que decidieron la guerra no fueron ?que los espa?oles s? mataban con sus espadas y los aztecas s?lo atontaban?, sino a) la viruela que diezm? terriblemente a los aztecas y b) la presencia del numeroso ej?rcito tlaxcalteca, el profesor me respondi? que eso no ten?a nada que ver con AM, sino con ?factores sociales?.Quote
------> Efectivamente
Quote:
Mi pregunta es: una epidemia que diezma a uno de los bandos, ?no tiene que ver con la guerra? ?un ?factor social? est? separado de la guerra? o al rev?s ?puede la guerra, y por tanto el AM, desligarse de un ?factor social??
Vamos a ver, no se pueden mezlcar las AM en una guerra donde la tecnologia es diferente. Es como decir,que en la guerra del Vietnam,mientras los americanos usaban el Napal como AM (ridiculo verdad?) ellos usaban sus AM para defenderse (ridiculo tambien)
Hay que tener en cuenta que las enfermedades que afectaron a los indigenas,no fueron: "pum,llegamos,infectamos,mueren" sino que tienen un proceso de inoculacion,desarrollo,etc. El factor social,aparte de como estaba organizada la sociedad en aquellos tiempos,y como estaba organiado el "ejercito" espa?ol, la superioridad, etc...
Entendamos AM como forma de atacar/defenderse de enemigos conocidos,puesto que las AM estaban basadas precisamente en eso. Las "AM" de los indigenes,frente a la tecnologia (antes,despues,ayer,hoy y ma?ana) son absurdas, es como si tenemos un ejercito de 10.000 hombres expertos en Ninjutsu, y en el bando rival, un solo hombre, con una bomba atomica... De que sirven las AM frente a la tecnologia??? De nada.Supongo que se querria referir a ese hecho en cuanto a lo social: estructura,jerarquia,tecnologia,mentalidad,educacion (militar) etc...
Quote:
5) Ahora, si el profesor se refiere a AM no s?lo como la utilizaci?n de las armas, sino tambi?n las t?cticas, arquitectura marcial, etc., simplemente respondo que la guerra que se ejerc?a aqu? era diferente a la europea. En ese sentido amplio s? podemos culpar en parte a su AM, pero tambi?n a las relaciones pol?ticas de los mexicas con otros pueblos.
Si y no. Las tacticas y las estrategias "militares" se basan en funcion del armamento que tienes y del personal militar (numero de soldados). Pero de nuevo,todo esto queda desfasado contra un "ejercito" mas potente,mejor preparado,curtido en batallas "de mas nivel", con armas mejores,con protecciones mejores,con instruccion "militar",etc etc etc
Se puede hablar de diferentes tacticas militares entre los romanos y los Unos, por ejemplo, pero no con los aztecas, y de nuevo influye lo social, como esta estructurada la sociedad,la jerarquia de la misma,etc etc etc
Es decir,estamos hablando de paises que tenian un desarrollo altamente superior (en todos los aspectos) frente a otra sociedad (que comparada con los invasores) no tenian ninguna opcion.
Todo ello lo digo sin menospreciar a los indigenas,pero el mismo nombre ya lo dice: indigenas VS Soldados. El resultado era obvio.Back to top
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9-terremoto
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 7
Location: M?xico
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:52 pm?? ?Post subject:
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Muchas gracias a devnul por su respuesta.
Le pido a quien responda estos mensajes que lo haga en la secci?n "M?xico", para no perder orden.
Ante tu idea de superioridad, y sin ir m? lejos, s?lo vuelvo a preguntar: ?Por qu? no ganaron los espa?oles desde la primera escaramuza, con su teconolog?a, sus caballos y sus armaduras? ?Por qu? ganaron hasta que contaron con los tlaxcaltecas?
Tambi?n habr?a que ponernos de acuerdo en cuanto a qu? entendemospor AM: la sola lucha cuerpo a cuerpo o todo lo que implica tener presencia en una guerra. En el contexto de la ponencia, parec?a ser lo segundo.
Por otra parte, USA perdi? la guerra de Viet-nam a pesar de su napalm, sus aviones, etc. y aqu? definitivamente marc? la diferencia un factor social: las estrategias se multiplicaban porque era TODO el Pueblo, y no s?lo los soldados, los que guerreaban contra los soldados estadounidenses.
Gracias.
9-terremoto
_________________
"S?lo en el centro se puede vivir." Huehuehlahtolli, la antigua palabra
Muchas gracias a devnul por su respuesta.
Le pido a quien responda estos mensajes que lo haga en la secci?n "M?xico", para no perder orden.
Ante tu idea de superioridad, y sin ir m? lejos, s?lo vuelvo a preguntar: ?Por qu? no ganaron los espa?oles desde la primera escaramuza, con su teconolog?a, sus caballos y sus armaduras? ?Por qu? ganaron hasta que contaron con los tlaxcaltecas?
Tambi?n habr?a que ponernos de acuerdo en cuanto a qu? entendemospor AM: la sola lucha cuerpo a cuerpo o todo lo que implica tener presencia en una guerra. En el contexto de la ponencia, parec?a ser lo segundo.
Por otra parte, USA perdi? la guerra de Viet-nam a pesar de su napalm, sus aviones, etc. y aqu? definitivamente marc? la diferencia un factor social: las estrategias se multiplicaban porque era TODO el Pueblo, y no s?lo los soldados, los que guerreaban contra los soldados estadounidenses.
Gracias.
9-terremoto
dudo que alguien pueda llevar su objetividad al 100 %, sobre todo en lo que a historia se refiere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3bnf8B-DMw
. We’ve had the recent high-profile killings of Americans in Mexico such as David Hartley on Falcon Lake, the missionary killing and the recent Zeta killing of the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agent.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-naw-mexico-guns-20110311,0,2534184.story
Como decia Porfirio Diaz hace un poco mas de cien anos atras "Pobre Mexico, tan lejos de Dios y tan cerca a los Estados Unidos." Que tristeza ver tanto muerte tan feo.
Mexico tiene muchos lugares muy hermosos. Esta Rico en petroleos y de muchas cosas mas. Desafortunada mente estamos pasando muchas cosas malas Que a mi me hace en no ir para Mexico. LLO viivo a trieinta :-( minutos de la frontera a San Luis Sonora. Yo lla ni intento en ir para alla, ni riesgo a mi familia en ir y llevarlos. Como dije el terror Que esta pasando en Mexico esta causando mucho miedo. Ojala algun dia eso se acave.
MONTERREY – Two dozen gunmen burst into a casino in northern Mexico on Thursday, doused it with gasoline and started a fire that trapped gamblers inside, killing 53 people and injuring a dozen more, authorities said.
The fire at the Casino Royale in Monterrey, a city that has seen a surge in drug cartel-related violence, represented one of the deadliest attacks on an entertainment center in Mexico since President Felipe Calderon launched an offensive against drug cartels in late 2006.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08/25/eleven-killed-in-attack-on-northern-mexico-casino/#ixzz1W7c6fNgF
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El Los Angeles Times ahora esta' diciendo que murieron entre 40 and 50 personas :cry:
88762
Second post of the day
"On Wednesday, Mexico's national security spokeswoman Alejandra Sota vowed in a statement that the government would "hunt down" and bring to justice any criminal group that takes justice into its own hands."
Jorge Chabat, a security analyst at the CIDE think tank in Mexico says that the emergence of illegal groups such as the Mata Zetas—perhaps with some help from local or national government authorities—wouldn't be a surprise, given the level of violence inflicted by the Zetas on the Mexican population and the Mexican state's inability to provide its citizens with protection.
Officials "would never tell you openly, but I wouldn't be surprised if some sectors of government look the other way, and I fear that parts of the civilian population would also see this with approval," he said.
http://www.texasagriculture.gov/vgn/tda/files/1848/46982_Final%20Report-Texas%20Border%20Security.pdf
This is a recent report by, among others, Gen. Barry McCaffrey. It's over 180 pages but does have a 5-page executive summary.
The quarter will also see the inauguration of Mexico's next president, Enrique Pena Nieto, on Dec. 1. Pena Nieto has discussed plans to reduce overall violence by 50 percent in the first year of his presidency by creating a national gendarmerie, transferring military troops to the federal police and honing the military's focus on violent crimes. Whether those plans will be pursued remains to be seen, and any significant shifts in military and law enforcement policies probably will not occur until 2013.
This has always been the only way law enforcement works effectively. Otherwise corruption exists and you can bet the locals know exactly what is going on and are there when things are actually happening. Police as a whole should cease to exist. They just aren't the best way. People being responsible for themselves is the best way.
AYUTLA, Mexico—Masked men, rifles slung over their shoulders, stand guard on a lonely rural road, checking IDs and questioning travelers. They wear no uniforms, flash no badges, but they are the law here now.
A dozen villages in the area have risen up in armed revolt against local drug traffickers that have terrorized the region and a government that residents say is incapable of protecting them from organized crime.
Ranchers in Tecoanapa, near Ayutla, voted Sunday in favor of having local militiamen provide security.
..
The villages in the hilly southern Mexican state of Guerrero now forbid the Mexican army and state and federal police from entering. Ragtag militias carrying a motley arsenal of machetes, old hunting rifles and the occasional AR-15 semiautomatic rifle control the towns. Strangers aren't allowed entry. There is a 10 p.m. curfew. More than 50 prisoners, accused of being in drug gangs, sit in makeshift jails. Their fates hinge on public trials that began Thursday when the accused were arraigned before villagers, who will act as judge and jury.
Mexico Unveils New Police Force
Scaled-Down Unit Aims to Protect Mine and Farm Operations
By Dudley Althaus and José de Córdoba
WSJ
Aug. 22, 2014 3:57 p.m. ET
The smaller force will instead be another unit of the Federal Police. Critics said the new force was too small and would leave the bulk of the fight against the cartels to Mexico's army and navy.
The original plan for the gendarmerie was opposed by the military, which spearheaded the bloody, unresolved campaign against organized crime, according to some analysts. Tens of thousands of Mexican troops still patrol the country's hot spots, including many of the states just south of the U.S. border.
https://news.vice.com/article/i-got-mugged-in-mexico-city-and-going-to-the-police-just-made-shit-worse?utm_source=vicefbus
That, or arresting one of my own partners for working as an assassin in the cartel. It all goes on. I get a sense of not fearing anything anymore, because you know, you're already dead and no one, not even the law is untouchable, and well.. life is cheap. GM.... I'm still not dead.
Milagro!
Mexico:
Etellekt, a risk analysis consulting firm in Mexico, released its first report on political violence in the country. The data is from the past six months and identifies 83 violent acts against politicians in 25 states. Of those, a shocking 54 were assassinations of political candidates for office. We know violence in Mexico has been bad, but if nine candidates are being assassinated every month, this is even worse than we thought. Let’s evaluate the credibility of the firm and its report and find out who was assassinated
• Finding: Etellekt specializes in political risk mitigation and campaigning. Its clients are primarily government entities at all levels and strategic business industries. It isn’t a particularly transparent organization – it does not list its physical address or its employees on its website, making it difficult to judge its credibility. Press references to the consulting firm come from a small group of regular reporters. Only the head of the company, Ruben Salazar Vazquez, is publicly recognized. The lack of transparency could be explained by the sensitivity of the company’s work. The report should be considered reliable in that other news articles throughout the year report incidents of political violence that support the final numbers in this report. Of the 54 political victims listed in the report, seven were sitting mayors, nine were former mayors, one was an elected municipal president, 15 were pre-candidates, 12 were aldermen, eight were political party and militant leaders, one was a local deputy, and one was political adviser.
https://www.utep.edu/liberalarts/nssi/_Files/docs/Capstone%20projects1/Valencia_Evolving-Dynamics-of-Terrorism.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1snBcM8t9ODBSAjCCDkelJ52EggrlSK84_a8DycLnOEaiBr7GedVRdlXA
https://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2017/282846.htm?fbclid=IwAR3PtbR8ZglrSgDw_0GFcqULgaF6Ai7BK9s1dBWMYaWIa8mes8MB_XYRvUQ
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/10/mexico-drug-cartels-grip-on-politicians-and-police-revealed-in-texas-court-files?fbclid=IwAR183RJZRrj1UeVuzR5uRB83MIa14BlrQluMWqxGpeyq_DSvGfWS0BJcCAI
https://abc7chicago.com/mexico-cartels-now-fuel-deadly-chicago-opioid-epidemic/4605627/?fbclid=IwAR0t9uyE7t622Ddw__TzAaUnnsdelSVZa-LEVJhjYaor9AefA9QmHf3ymvc