Dog Brothers Public Forum

I understand what your saying. You would be right to not use Matt Serra's win over GSP as an example of Bjj wining.
However I have never used my examples out of context like your implying.

I just need to know why, a Balck belt in BJJ Loses to a lesser ranked BJJ belt in the context of a grappling type match.....just as in Matt Hughes and Royce Gracie.
The same goes for GSP and MS fIGHT 2.

If a heavy punch lands and hurts the fighter that makes all the difference in the world.
Again Ive kept my examples in context.......I beleive in playing fairly

Jon, tell me something about your training..... Like what you train in how long ect......I'am just curious.
Also,I f you could onley train one art what would it be?
                                                                    TG

If you talking about Anderson Silva beating  Hendo........Uh strikes won tht fight. Do you remember the 1st round? Hendo totally dominated that round.....on the ground.

Again Jon, I have always kept my argument in context.

How did strikes win that fight? Hendo was submitted with a RNC. I would say that Hendo's strikes were pretty weak in general. Silva controlled him to much.

Now, as far as I know striking has nothing to do with either BJJ, or Wrestling. So you can't bring strikes into the fray unless you are willing to admit that there are other factors than BJJ vs Wrestling... which is exactly my point. There are other factors.

So to answer your questions:

1. A lesser belt can win because he has more training in a more diverse set of grappling arts (including wrestling, no one is debating this.) You can throw strikes in to the mix. You can consider age, who trained harder, any sort of adversity going on in a fighters personal life. There are soooooo many factors involved that boiling any fight down to simply wrestling vs bjj is short sighted in the extreme. Wrestling and BJJ have entirely different goals anyway. I am not even sure it is possible to compare them. As far as the gracies being beaten... its nothing new. There were people long before the american wrestlers to blaze that trail.

2. I have 2 years of kali (the first was many years ago so I hesitate to count it) one under Sifu Bill Gebhardt, and more recently under Dog Ryan Gruhn. I also now have a year in BJJ under Jeff Rockwell. I spent 2.5 years training Aikido. I would be hard pressed to choose one Art. They all have much to offer. I try and learn a little something from anyone that will teach me

So who will win? I don't know. I like them both so have a hard time picking one to root for. I really liked both Hendo and Silva but one of them had to lose. If BJ comes out looking as good as he did in his last fight I think he will take it.

..So does that mean Penn beats Sherk on the ground?

By rights it should.....yes? At least to your way of thinking?

Where in the hell did anyone make that claim? No one said anything of the sort.

You are attacking a strawman.

I have some thoughts on the subject, although my experience is admittedly a little weak... mostly just your average hormone ridden scuffles between young 16-25 year old males.

I had to be shown how the angles of attack were similar. Once I was shown my brain sort of took over and started looking for the empty hand conversions. They are hiding away in that stick and knife material. You just have to look for them. This is hard to do because most of the movements are not similar to boxing, and boxing is what most of us think of when we think of unarmed combat. Left lead, striking with the knuckles. If you can break out of that mentality a world of other options open.

Consider angles 1 and 2 with a stick. You can attack forehand, or back, with either stick. Transfer this idea to empty hand and you have double your possible attacks provided you get away from the idea of striking with the knuckles.Think slaps and hammer fists. Break down your simple 6 count sinawali. Turn the first strike into an attack on the opponents lead hand (pulling his guard down!) Your second attack into a head shot of your choosing, and your third shot into either another head shot, or another attack on his far hand to open the other side for attack. With some driving footwork you have the kali equivalent to a "straight blast!" Pretty cool in my amateur opinion!    I see the "straight blast in MMA all the time." It seems to work.

I had the privilege to be at a seminar in Virginia with Crafty last Sunday and to go over some of the "Los Triques" material. I felt almost stupid for not seeing how this stuff converted before... but sure enough it easily does!

I am to old to jump into the MMA scene, but I hope that someone in FMA world will soon!

Jon

Hey, very cool!

Thanks David!

I would like to bring up a very critical point on why i believe in the 2nd A.
The police are not responsible for individuals safety.
This may sound simple on the surface, but there are so many people who believe and have the thought if something bad happens 'the police will come'
Well they likely will, but they may not.

I have been thinking about this a lot lately, and I have to say that I agree. I refuse to leave the safety of the ones I love in the hands of someone else. Especially when that someone else might be miles away. By the time the police arrive I could be dead. My family could be dead. I believe Crafty says it best "Protect yourself at all times" and "Only you are responsible for your safety." Maybe thats not exactly it, but I think he says something to that affect at the beginning of every gathering. There are not enough police to protect everyone, and would we really want that many anyway? I wouldn't.

Also, fleeing from your home is not such a bad idea when every variable, except possibly knowledge of the layout of the home, are working against you.  I know it sounds crazy, but a skillful retreat especially when others like children are involved is still a better option a lot of the time.

I really don't see how its possible to wake up the 3 other people I live with and sneak out of the house without ending up in a confrontation with the intruder. There are three floors and we are on different levels. Chances are good that one of us will run smack into the intruder before the others even realize he is there. I could flee, try and call for help, and leave the others on their own. That doesn't sit well. What about the months of the year that the temperatures are below freezing outside? Is it really a good idea to go charging out the front door in my boxers? Just some food for thought. Not all of us live in sunny California where you can hang out in shorts outside all year 

Hi everyone!

Peregrine, I think Sakuraba was a Japanese pro wrestler before becoming involved in MMA... make of that what you will, but he turned out to be pretty bad ass!

As for the wrestling/bjj discussion going on, I have a couple thoughts. I train bjj under Jeff Rockwell and can honestly say that his class has added miles to my stick grappling game. Many of the other people in the kali class (I train under Dog Ryan Gruhn by the way) don't train grappling on the side, and if I go full on it feels like I am cheating sometimes. Mostly I tone things down and try and let them work. I try and give them helpful hints, and break things down as simply as possible so they can progress and learn too. If they get better at stick grappling then I have to get better at stick grappling right? I just wish some of the wrestlers in bjj understood this. With them it is win win win all the time. Some of them do get it, and they have been very helpful. They have solved some problems I was having with certain positions and given me more options. As for the ones that don't get it... i just tap early, and let them have their win from a sloppy choke that cranks my neck. They are only hurting their own training.

I would like to hear how people have applied the various grappling arts inside of the contexts of stick grappling, but this is perhaps the subject of a new thread.